Re: Please install /usr/bin/python2
On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 7:25 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: > The only suggestion I can make is that it's generally not that hard for new > code to make it work for both python2.7 and python3.3. I do not agree. -- anatoly t. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAPkN8x+yVDnRnTU2Nq_-+KQbKasGSUSRBqDWbFOQ=qayxiz...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Please install /usr/bin/python2
On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 12:55 PM, anatoly techtonik wrote: > On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 7:25 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: >> The only suggestion I can make is that it's generally not that hard for new >> code to make it work for both python2.7 and python3.3. > > I do not agree. I mean that generally it is hard to say what problems people face when trying to make the code running on both Python 3 and Python 2. My own experience shows that testing both is very burdensome no matter if you port app or start from scratch. Generally you should keep in mind all differences between both languages and that alone already hard. -- anatoly t. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/capkn8x+qk6qc_7zfdentymjyaxzebuatcwsu94vwq2cswva...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Please install /usr/bin/python2
On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 1:24 PM, anatoly techtonik wrote: > On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 12:55 PM, anatoly techtonik > wrote: >> On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 7:25 PM, Scott Kitterman >> wrote: >>> The only suggestion I can make is that it's generally not that hard for new >>> code to make it work for both python2.7 and python3.3. >> >> I do not agree. > > I mean that generally it is hard to say what problems people face when > trying to make the code running on both Python 3 and Python 2. My own > experience shows that testing both is very burdensome no matter if you > port app or start from scratch. Generally you should keep in mind all > differences between both languages and that alone already hard. And as anti-offtopic, writing only for Python 2 has its advantages, and leaving out this option for Debian users now seriously affect future of Debian as a backward compatible Python platform in future. So, I am +1 fpor adding python2 command ASAP. -- anatoly t. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAPkN8x++8mTZNznJSNQbp7Q+fawWAhW_X-U9317=4Ya5=04...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Please install /usr/bin/python2
i'm not an expert by any means but i fail to see how this is an issue? -Everyone wrote scripts for python 2.x using /usr/bin/python -With python3, scripts were written specifically for python3 using /usr/bin/python3 When Debian eventually changes to python3 by default all the scripts will be written using /usr/bin/python3 anyway so it shouldn't matter what the python symlink is as we are following the major release number for python3+. There isn't a reason to change the /usr/bin/python link let alone create one for python2. Debian source packages that require a python2 symlink would be patched out and it would be fine. On 15 September 2013 20:29, anatoly techtonik wrote: > On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 1:24 PM, anatoly techtonik > wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 12:55 PM, anatoly techtonik > wrote: > >> On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 7:25 PM, Scott Kitterman > wrote: > >>> The only suggestion I can make is that it's generally not that hard > for new code to make it work for both python2.7 and python3.3. > >> > >> I do not agree. > > > > I mean that generally it is hard to say what problems people face when > > trying to make the code running on both Python 3 and Python 2. My own > > experience shows that testing both is very burdensome no matter if you > > port app or start from scratch. Generally you should keep in mind all > > differences between both languages and that alone already hard. > > And as anti-offtopic, writing only for Python 2 has its advantages, > and leaving out this option for Debian users now seriously affect > future of Debian as a backward compatible Python platform in future. > So, I am +1 fpor adding python2 command ASAP. > -- > anatoly t. > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > listmas...@lists.debian.org > Archive: > http://lists.debian.org/CAPkN8x++8mTZNznJSNQbp7Q+fawWAhW_X-U9317=4Ya5=04...@mail.gmail.com > >
Re: Please install /usr/bin/python2
Lachlan writes: > i'm not an expert by any means but i fail to see how this is an issue? In short: Debian is not the only Unix-like system where Python is installed, and consistency across operating systems is valuable. > -Everyone wrote scripts for python 2.x using /usr/bin/python And eventually Python 2 will be long obsolete. > -With python3, scripts were written specifically for python3 using > /usr/bin/python3 Not all of them, and the expectation is that more and more systems will assume “/usr/bin/python” is the current version of Python. See PEP 394 http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/>. -- \ “Religious faith is the one species of human ignorance that | `\will not admit of even the *possibility* of correction.” —Sam | _o__) Harris, _The End of Faith_, 2004 | Ben Finney -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/7wioy2z4fu@benfinney.id.au
Re: Please install /usr/bin/python2
On 15 September 2013 07:53, Ben Finney wrote: > Lachlan writes: > Not all of them, and the expectation is that more and more systems will > assume “/usr/bin/python” is the current version of Python. I haven't seen any evidence that anyone except Arch has any intention to do that. Jeremy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/caaajcmzrqnlagzd5ev4vargfqbvos2ntrq1szhnzxku6g1c...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Please install /usr/bin/python2
Scott, I booted up a CentOS 6.4 VM, and the symlink is there (runs python2.6). I'd be interested to know if there are any other systems where it's unavailable though. - Kerrick On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: > > > Kerrick Staley wrote: > >What's not included in "some newer releases" here? /usr/bin/python2 has > >been present on all systems I've used except Debian. > > > >- Kerrick > > It looks to me like the latest Centos ships with python2.6 and > /usr/bin/python2 only shipped with 2.7. > > Scott K > > > > > >On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Scott Kitterman > >wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> Kerrick Staley wrote: > >> >Thanks! > >> > > >> >The upstream recommendation (from PEP 394 [1]) is that, going > >forward, > >> >portable scripts *can't* assume python is python2, and *should* use > >> >python2. > >> > > >> >- Kerrick > >> > > >> >[1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/ > >> > >> I'm very familiar with it. > >> > >> Now we get to Arch is insane. > >> > >> They've put developers in a difficult spot. They have to choose > >between > >> /usr/bin/python2 and works on Arch and some newer releases and > >> /usr/bin/python and works everywhere except Arch. > >> > >> The only suggestion I can make is that it's generally not that hard > >for > >> new code to make it work for both python2.7 and python3.3. Then > >there's no > >> need to care. > >> > >> Scott K > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > listmas...@lists.debian.org > Archive: > http://lists.debian.org/cd5aef27-a8e2-4675-b22a-51a72a637...@email.android.com > >
Re: Please install /usr/bin/python2
Kerrick Staley wrote: >Scott, I booted up a CentOS 6.4 VM, and the symlink is there (runs >python2.6). I'd be interested to know if there are any other systems >where >it's unavailable though. OK. I think that convinces me it's widely enough spread we ought to fix this for Wheezy. I'll take it up with the release managers as it's their decision, not mine. Scott K -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/b0b3242f-767f-4238-8e9e-09ae81039...@email.android.com
Re: Please install /usr/bin/python2
On Sunday, September 15, 2013 14:34:27 Scott Kitterman wrote: > Kerrick Staley wrote: > >Scott, I booted up a CentOS 6.4 VM, and the symlink is there (runs > >python2.6). I'd be interested to know if there are any other systems > >where > >it's unavailable though. > > OK. I think that convinces me it's widely enough spread we ought to fix this > for Wheezy. I'll take it up with the release managers as it's their > decision, not mine. I don't see a bug open in the Debian BTS for this. Would you please file one. Scott K -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/13138907.IMvDsmKFgQ@scott-latitude-e6320
Re: Please install /usr/bin/python2
On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 09:53:41PM +1000, Ben Finney wrote: > Lachlan writes: > > i'm not an expert by any means but i fail to see how this is an issue? > In short: Debian is not the only Unix-like system where Python is > installed, and consistency across operating systems is valuable. Yes, it is, which is what makes the Arch devs' change to make things *inconsistent* by pointing /usr/bin/python to python3 an unforgivable screwup. /usr/bin/python is an interface for python2. Having this change over time to point to something incompatible, such as python3, is Evil Bad Wrong. We are now in the situation that we have to ship /usr/bin/python2 for compatibility with scripts originating from Arch, but that in no way implies that /usr/bin/python should be changed to python3. Repurposing /usr/bin/python should only happen following an intervening release in which python2 is not shipped *at all*. > > -Everyone wrote scripts for python 2.x using /usr/bin/python > And eventually Python 2 will be long obsolete. And *once that happens*, we can discuss resurrecting /usr/bin/python and pointing it to python3. It should not change until then. > > -With python3, scripts were written specifically for python3 using > > /usr/bin/python3 > Not all of them, and the expectation is that more and more systems will > assume “/usr/bin/python” is the current version of Python. Who expects that? Arch is negligible. Debian and Ubuntu are not going to make this change. What other OSes are making the ill-conceived change to /usr/bin/python? > See PEP 394 http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/>. It's not the first or last time that an upstream has made a poor recommendation that Debian rightly ignores. Enabling /usr/bin/python2 compatibility benefits our users, yes. Promoting its use, or making /usr/bin/python incompatible with the many existing scripts running on older Debian releases, does not. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Please install /usr/bin/python2
On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Lachlan wrote: > i'm not an expert by any means but i fail to see how this is an issue? > > -Everyone wrote scripts for python 2.x using /usr/bin/python > -With python3, scripts were written specifically for python3 using > /usr/bin/python3 > > When Debian eventually changes to python3 by default all the scripts will be > written using /usr/bin/python3 anyway so it shouldn't matter what the python > symlink is as we are following the major release number for python3+. There > isn't a reason to change the /usr/bin/python link let alone create one for > python2. > > Debian source packages that require a python2 symlink would be patched out > and it would be fine. I am a Python coder. Python is a cross-platform language that runs on Windows, Unix, Mac X, Raspberry PI etc., and I like if my script runs everywhere. Now I have tons of legacy libraries that are written in Python 2 and porting them to Python 3 is not trivial. So I have to stick with Python 2 for the next 5+ years or so. Now I discovered that if you install Python 3 on Windows, the default 'python' command will invoke Python 3, so I add "!/usr/bin/env python2" shebang to my sources to explicitly call Python 2. There is even a special Python launcher for Windows that parses that shebang. I commit my scripts to Bitbucket, test everything works and the next day I discover that everything broken on Debian, because there is no python2 there now. -- anatoly t. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAPkN8xLP6nDy+fAtVL3_+13OiOe6XYz0hL3ZB4gy+=zqxhe...@mail.gmail.com
