Re: GPL photographies, eg for backround

2008-12-30 Thread MJ Ray
Don Armstrong  wrote:
> 1: I should note that belittling remarks like "Your argument, if it
> can be called that" aren't particularly conducive to polite
> conversation or indeed any further consideration of this subthread by
> me.

I should note that pontificating about belittling remarks made in
an irrelevant subthread instead of answering the original questions
aren't particularly conducive to productive use of this email list.

For what it's worth, I think I'm broadly with Francesco Poli about
the original questions, so haven't posted a me too.  Until now.

Hope that helps,
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Re: GPL photographies, eg for backround

2008-12-30 Thread Francesco Poli
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 02:17:51 + Måns Rullgård wrote:

[...]
> I can easily imagine a photograph where the
> preferred form for modification is the depicted scene itself, rather
> than its depiction.

I am convinced that the depicted scene could possibly be the preferred
thing for *re-creating* the photograph from scratch (possibly in a
slightly different manner), not the preferred *form of the work* for
making *modifications* to it.

That's a significant difference, IMO.

> To created a modified photo, the photographer
> would rearrange the scene and make a new photo, not alter an existing
> one.

As I said above, this is not *modifying* the work, it's *re-creating*
it from scratch (possibly with variations).
Just like re-writing an executable program from scratch, rather than
modifying it: you do not need any pre-existing code in order to
re-write a (similar) program from scratch, but that does *not*
mean that the source for the original program is an empty file!

Usual disclaimers: IANAL, TINLA, IANADD, TINASOTODP.


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Re: Please give opinion about "Bug#509287: afio: license is non-free"

2008-12-30 Thread Steve Langasek
severity 509287 important
thanks

Hi Erik,

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 01:00:16AM +0100, Erik Schanze wrote:
> Dear debian-legal folks,

> I got a Bug against package "afio" because of licence problems.
> Please see http://bugs.debian.org/509287.

> There was already a similar Bug 9 years ago that was closed, after one
> person from this list gave his OK. 
> (http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/1999/05/msg00162.html)

> But I think it's not that easy. It seems the clause is problematic.

> There is an ongoing discussion on a Redhat list 
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=449037 and they excluded 
> the package already. There is an other blog on 
> http://www.kernelplanet.org/fedora/ that gave a summary of the current 
> situation.

> What should I do?
> Have I move afio to non-free?

Well, http://spot.livejournal.com/303000.html misses the point by a long
shot.  The original license is not non-free because of prohibitions on sale;
there are other licenses we've accepted as free that prohibit direct sale of
the software, so long as they allow commercial distribution of the software
in a bundle with other software.  It's not a *good* license, but it's not a
non-free license for failing DFSG#1.  If you read the full text of DFSG#1,
it's clear that the wording was informed by just such licenses as this.

Rather, the original license is non-free because it lacks any permission to
*modify*.  Since this is not a right that we have by default under
copyright, if we don't have a license from the copyright holder to modify
this software, then it fails DFSG#3.

The question is, do we have permission to modify it?  Tom Calloway claims
that the later licensing notice is invalid because:

  [S]omeone (oh mysterious unknown person of the internets) decided that
  afio was pretty darned useful and uploaded it to sunsite (which used to be
  a pretty good place to dump useful UNIXy things that you found on the
  internets). At some point, someone at SunSite (again, this person's name
  is lost to the internets) decided to redefine the licensing terms. [...]
  Thus, whoever wrote it, took a big leap in IANAL licensing and decreed
  that the "software package as a whole" may be distributed under any method
  that meets the Artistic or LGPL license".

So in point of fact, he admits he does *not* know who attached this license
to the afio code.  The claim that the work is covered by this license may be
an unfounded assertion, but so is any claim that this is an invalid license.

If specific evidence comes to light that permission was *not* granted by the
copyright holder to place the work under the Artistic License, then we
should treat this as an RC bug.  But unless that happens, there's nothing
here that makes the package ineligible for inclusion in main, AFAICS.

So downgrading the bug severity is the correct course of action here for
that reason.

There's also enough cause for doubt here that it's warranted to continue
investigating so we can be sure about the real license status; hence the bug
should not be closed outright, IMHO.

(The lenny-ignore tag is also left in place, reflecting the release team's
intent to not treat this as a blocker for lenny if there were a reason to
re-raise the severity.)

Cheers,
-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org


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