Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 03:17:43AM -0300, Jorge Gonçalves wrote: > Hello! > > First, thank you for the great distro that is Debian, one of the best. > > I would like to suggest you some way so that the users keep on using > the good old KDE 3.5 when they migrate to the upcoming Lenny. > > Maybe use dummy packages, or rename the packages so that KDE 3.5 could > remain installed, and not be forced to upgrade to Kde4. > No, there is not sane way and there is nobody interested on it. > I really feel sorry that KDE 3 series is no more being developed, and > when the day cames that I no longer will be able to use KDE 3, I will > switch to Apple or even Windows, but NEVER to kde4 or Gnome! > (and I feel many users out there think like me!!!) > You still have gnustep, xfce, lxde, no using any or simply never upgrade. Ana -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100506065944.ga30...@ana.debian.net
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
2010/5/6 Jorge Gonçalves : > Hello! > > First, thank you for the great distro that is Debian, one of the best. > > I would like to suggest you some way so that the users keep on using > the good old KDE 3.5 when they migrate to the upcoming Lenny. > > Maybe use dummy packages, or rename the packages so that KDE 3.5 could > remain installed, and not be forced to upgrade to Kde4. > > I really feel sorry that KDE 3 series is no more being developed, and > when the day cames that I no longer will be able to use KDE 3, I will > switch to Apple or even Windows, but NEVER to kde4 or Gnome! > (and I feel many users out there think like me!!!) > > Thank you, keep the good work, Debian is one of the best. > Jorge. > > You might be interested in the Pearson packages, which have KDE 3.5.10 with tons of bug fixes backported. It's not for Debian but for Debian-derived Ubuntu, still, it works: http://apt.pearsoncomputing.net/ Furthermore, I file bug reports and feature requests for KDE. If you let me know what problems you are having with KDE 4.4, I will gladly file issues. KDE 4.0 and 4.1 were a mess, but KDE 4.2 and 4.3 were very usable. So far as I know KDE 4.4 addresses all but three or four KDE 3 regression issues. It's also lightweight on hardware (lighter that KDE 3!) so long as you are not loading Qt3 apps in addition to the Qt4. Just let me know what is still broken, and I will see if it can be taken care of. Thanks! -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/n2n880dece0100506q138a67bchcf98dec5f19e7...@mail.gmail.com
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
I don't get what you're trying to accomplish. On 2010-05-05 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: > In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail -> > Akonadi -> mysql-server). So you don't like the dependency to Akonadi? Too bad. As can be read on many places, Akonadi is there to stay. And as you mentioned in another post, the dependency to Akonadi has been in place for a while now (Korganizer and KAddressBook since 4.2). So there's no way in hell you're going to have (upstream) support for an Akonadi-less PIM. Or don't you like the Akonadi dependency to mysql-server? Well, it's not the full mysqld package anymore, but the dependency is to mysql-server-core(-5.1) (see #548419). SQLite has been found inappropriate since it lacks proper transaction support. PostgreSQL is apparently capable of providing the proper features and Tobias Koenig has made Akonadi working with PostgreSQL since the end of last year (http://tokoe-kde.blogspot.com/2009/12/akonadi- and-postgresql.html). That patch was committed to trunk at that time, but apparently didn't make into SC 4.4 (?). So if you want to use PostgreSQL, your best bet would be to port/base that patch on 4.4. > Just block the KDEPIM 4.4 apps from migrating to testing. The KDEPIM 4.3 > programs already work with the KDEBASE 4.4 libraries. > > Heck, just stop kmail from migrating. Korganizer and KAddressBook have > required Akonadi since 4.2 or earlier. Yeah right, let's get a combination of 4.3 and 4.4 (and 4.2?) into stable, that surely must be preferable. And good luck getting any upstream support for bugs resulting from that. As Ana indicated the freeze won't wait for SC 4.5, so better make the best out of 4.4. If you want the freeze to wait for 4.5, better try to convince the release team. Good luck. Diederik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005060913.06917.didi.deb...@cknow.org
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 06:13:50PM -0500, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: > > These responses are quite frustrating. I read Ana's post as "please make > sure > KDE 4.4 is ready for stable". My post was "KDE 4.4 is inappropriate for > stable". All the replies have been "too bad, we are going to release it > anyway". > No, you complain about something *specific* no the whole KDE 4.4, as I told you, if you are able to develop a patch for it, there is plenty of time for testing before freeze. Understand no everybody is annoyed about that. Ana -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100506071807.ga30...@ana.debian.net
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thursday 06 May 2010 1:00:22 am Dotan Cohen wrote: > > Furthermore, I file bug reports and feature requests for KDE. If you > let me know what problems you are having with KDE 4.4, I will gladly > file issues. KDE 4.0 and 4.1 were a mess, but KDE 4.2 and 4.3 were > very usable. So far as I know KDE 4.4 addresses all but three or four > KDE 3 regression issues. It's also lightweight on hardware (lighter > that KDE 3!) so long as you are not loading Qt3 apps in addition to > the Qt4. > > Just let me know what is still broken, and I will see if it can be > taken care of. Thanks! I just upgraded to KDE 4.4 from unstable, and noticed the following problem with KDE PIM. Specifically, when checking the checkbox for a task in the To-do List causes repeated synchronization attempts with my disconnected imap server. The Tasks.index file increases it size and multiple tasks are created during the repeated synchronization attempts. Ultimately I have to kill kontact and start again. The tasks do show up as selected by the checkbox, and I can delete them normally without incident. I am using the groupware features of KDE with disconnected imap. I am using courier-imap.This bug is triggered just by selecting the checkbox for any task. If instead of using the checkbox feature to indicate that a task has been completed in the To-do LIst, you use the right mouse button and select 'Delete', the task is deleted and synchronized with the imap server without any problems. Thanks, John Schmidt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005060115.18793@xmission.com
akonadi first time start bugs with KDE 4.4.3
Hi! JFYI as this might (partly) be packaging related. I found the following bugs with Akonadi since I upgraded to KDE 4.4.3 happening often, possibly always when I start Kontact for the first time after starting a KDE session. On further starts of Kontact it works as expected: Bug 236535 - sometimes can't open and log timezone and privilege tables https://bugs.kde.org/236535 Bug 236538 - often does not find resource agents on first start of Kontact https://bugs.kde.org/236538 Bug 236539 - dbus session bus not available on first start of Kontact - race condition? https://bugs.kde.org/236539 Expected results: Akonadi just works all the time and doesn't confuse the casual user with lots of cryptic error messages ;). At least I wouldn't want to explain my father why Akonadi doesn't work correctly this time. Especially when I do not get either. Possibly some of these where here with earlier KDE 4.4 versions, but at least now it shows up often, if not everytime on first start of contact. Ciao, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
[Jorge Gonçalves - Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 08:17:43] Hi, > I really feel sorry that KDE 3 series is no more being developed, and > when the day cames that I no longer will be able to use KDE 3, I will > switch to Apple or even Windows, but NEVER to kde4 or Gnome! > (and I feel many users out there think like me!!!) Just a general note. If you ask people to invest a large amount of time to do something you would like to see done, consider stating some good reasons for your desire. Why is KDE 4 for you no option? Does it not work for you? Or do you just not like the concepts? The KDE developers are open for suggestions, as long as these are not "give me kicker back" or alike. So you might be better off using KDE 4 and report issues you would like to see fixed than switching to Windows ... whatever the reasons for that might be. Regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061139.04425.schwarz...@gmail.com
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Mike Bird: > On Wed May 5 2010 15:53:05 Frederik Schwarzer wrote: > > How does having a kdepim that depends on mysql declare kde as > > "broken"? Sure, many oppose to that dependency, but it works, > > doesn't it? > > (1) It reportedly breaks home directories stored on NFS servers. > (2) It's such a bad idea that KDE is rushing to remove it. > (3) Does Debian really want to implement robust migration both > to MySQL (for Squeeze) and then out of MySQL (for Squeeze+1)? Whether Akonadi works or not appears to be a game of roulette to me. Freshly since upgrading from KDE 4.4.3: Bug 236535 - sometimes can't open and log timezone and privilege tables https://bugs.kde.org/236535 Bug 236538 - often does not find resource agents on first start of Kontact https://bugs.kde.org/236538 Bug 236539 - dbus session bus not available on first start of Kontact - race condition? https://bugs.kde.org/236539 I already grepped in ~/.local/share/contacts for contact information as Akonadi was not available and I didn't now it would be there when I start kontact again. My address book as to be accessible *all of the time* without bombarding me with more and less cryptic error messages. There are about 15 self tests that might fail. I think Akonadi from KDE 4.4 depends on too many external factors that it just can't control fully. But nonetheless: I think these issues should be fixed upstream. And I also don't what else Debian developers could do then to use KDEPIM from KDE 4.4 if the freeze will really happen this summer. Shipping KDEPIM 4.3 with KDE 4.4 might not be an option for Debian KDE developers, cause it abandoned by upstream already and all security fixes needs to be backported. Sure when KDE 4.5 is out the same happens to KDE 4.4, but at least it will contain the security and other fixes upto then. So either KDE project decides to fix any Akonadi related issues for KDE 4.4 series or Debian extends freeze. Other options would be: Shipping a KDE 4.5 backport or even Squeeze + 1 shortly afterwards. Ciao, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: akonadi first time start bugs with KDE 4.4.3
[Martin Steigerwald - Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 11:34:57] > > Hi! > > JFYI as this might (partly) be packaging related. > > I found the following bugs with Akonadi since I upgraded to KDE 4.4.3 > happening often, possibly always when I start Kontact for the first time > after starting a KDE session. On further starts of Kontact it works as > expected: Umm, that's interesting. I had this since KDE 4.4.0 (self-compiled) and it vanished when switching from the 4.4.2 debs to the 4.4.3 ones. So I thought it was just fixed for 4.4.3. Now I wonder what I did to make it work. Regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061144.03642.schwarz...@gmail.com
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: > On Wednesday 05 May 2010 17:58:09 Modestas Vainius wrote: > > Hello, > > > > On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 01:54:06 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: > > > I'm still using kmail/kontact/etc. (basically kdepim) from 4.3 > > > since I have no desire to run yet another RDBMS on my system. (I > > > already run PostgreSQL, and have a number of apps that use SQLite > > > installed.) > > > > ... > > > > > Okay, ending this email here, because thinking about a stable > > > Debian that includes KDEPIM 4.4 angers and saddens me. > > > > How many users have postgres installed on their desktop? Do you > > complain > > > > just because `ps aux | grep mysqld` returns something and you can't > > stand it or you have any real issues with it? > > I have real issues with having to spare the disk space and RAM on my > laptop for it. PostgreSQL is for work; I don't get much choice about > running that. > > I also have a history with MySQL and I *do* *not* *trust* it with my > data. UPS or not. My email is fairly important for me -- I am > probably in KMail only slightly less than I am in a source code > editor. When I'm testing or deploying updates, I spend *more* time in > KMail. KMail doesn't use Akonadi at all in KDE 4.4. It might use Akonadi in KDE 4.5. The only thing using Akonadi by default in KDE 4.4 is the new KAddressBook. AFAIK. So KDE 4.5 might even be more problematic in the beginning. Especially when I remember the roughnesses of KDE 4.3.0 and KDE 4.4.0 I do not suggest to ship a .0 or even .1 release of KDE. Even KDE 4.4.2 had quite some bugs that KDE 4.4.3 fixed. So shipping KDE 4.4.3 or 4.4.4 oder 4.4.5 IMHO could well be a better option that to ship KDE 4.5.0 with Debian Squeeze. Sadly I have not seen any KDE 4.x.0 release yet thats really suitable for Debian Stable. Ciao, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Kevin Krammer: > On Thursday, 2010-05-06, Sune Vuorela wrote: > > On 2010-05-05, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: > > > I also have a history with MySQL and I *do* *not* *trust* it with > > > my data. = UPS or not. > > > > Then luckily you don't have to. The only data that mysql is *storing* > > (as opposed to caching) is data it still haven't been able to sync > > with the world. > > Additionally, I think it is possible to configure this version of > Akonadi to work with a Postgres instance. To me from my current impression of unreliability whether Akonadi is available or not this seems to put another experiment on a stack of experiments. Sorry, but from my findings I believe that Akonadi is not yet ready for prime time. As file indexing via Nepomuk. I reported most issues upstream and I can only suggest for other Debian users to do so as well. I don't think that Debian KDE developers have much time to deal with upstream bugs. Granted some of the bugs could also be packaging bugs, but I will ping back to Debian KDE developers should I get hints at that. Just sometimes I am fed up enough that I do not report a bug. Cause doing a proper bug report takes quite some time. I think I never reported that many KDE bugs than since KDE 4. -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: > Heck, just stop kmail from migrating. Korganizer and KAddressBook > have required Akonadi since 4.2 or earlier. Again, AFAIK, kmail does not use Akonadi in KDE 4.4, it might in KDE 4.5. Its KAddressBook that uses Akonadi by default now. No other component actually really used Akonadi before. At least that is what I know. Actually when I see the problems with Akonadi in KDE 4.4, I'd rather not ship a KMail from KDE 4.5.0 to end users if it uses Akonadi. I am also not quite a fan of shipping a KDE installation with mixed versions, but IMHO thats up for the Debian KDE developers to decide. I can understand when they do not want to. KAdressbook from KDE 4.3 is a completely different beast. It has been rewritten for KDE 4.4. Thus if you use the one from KDE 4.3, yours will be different from any other distro installed KDE. Unless another distribution decides to do such a version mixture. -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: akonadi first time start bugs with KDE 4.4.3
On 2010-05-06 Martin Steigerwald wrote: > Bug 236538 - often does not find resource agents on first start of Kontact > https://bugs.kde.org/236538 > > Bug 236539 - dbus session bus not available on first start of Kontact - > race condition? > https://bugs.kde.org/236539 I can confirm both of these bugs. Possible 'workaround' can be found at: http://userbase.kde.org/Akonadi_4.4/Troubleshooting ie wrt 236538: close Kontact. Start KAddressBook standalone. Quit KAddressBook. Start Kontact. Diederik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061157.58112.didi.deb...@cknow.org
Re: akonadi first time start bugs with KDE 4.4.3
Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Frederik Schwarzer: > [Martin Steigerwald - Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 11:34:57] > > > Hi! > > > > JFYI as this might (partly) be packaging related. > > > > I found the following bugs with Akonadi since I upgraded to KDE 4.4.3 > > happening often, possibly always when I start Kontact for the first > > time after starting a KDE session. On further starts of Kontact it > > works as > > > expected: > Umm, that's interesting. I had this since KDE 4.4.0 (self-compiled) and > it vanished when switching from the 4.4.2 debs to the 4.4.3 ones. > So I thought it was just fixed for 4.4.3. Now I wonder what I did to > make it work. Well: Thats what I mean. Do you *understand* whats going on there? I am a Linux trainer, consultant and administrator since >5 years and still don't get *why* this happen and *what* it triggers. I might get it when I study MySQL, DBUS, Resource Agents, Nepomuk, *whatever* else it uses - but I am and I want to be *just a user* of this stuff. So I think this is for upstream to solve - and if it ain't work reliably in KDE 4.4 I think it has to be fixed within KDE 4.4 series. Akonadi might use MySQL or not, but it if uses it, KAddressBook should still just work *predictably*. Thus I suggest reporting anything like that upstream - especially to you, Boyd - complaining here probably just won't help. And if upstream does not get bug reports they probably don't even know that something is broken on probably only *some* systems. Some issues might be packaging related, but then I hope to get hints back from upstream developers so that I can file debian bug reports with proper suggestions. Until then I think I default to reporting upstream, unless someone convinces me to do elsewise. Ciao, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Hi, On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 11:39:04AM +0200, Frederik Schwarzer wrote: > Why is KDE 4 for you no option? Does it not work for you? Or do you just > not like the concepts? The KDE developers are open for suggestions, as > long as these are not "give me kicker back" or alike. Konsole 4's Profile handling is utterly broken. There are multiple bugs open upstream about this, none of which has been commented on by the developers. I don't see any interest of upstream in fixing these issues. I still hope that 4.4.3 will fix the krunner instabilities that were introduced in 4.4. These two issues make me wish to have kde3 back every single day. Eye candy is important, which kde4 has more than kde3, but breaking my bread-and-butter application that badly is a real turn-off. Greetings Marc -- - Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header Mannheim, Germany | lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834 Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 3221 2323190 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100506101001.gc32...@torres.zugschlus.de
Re: akonadi first time start bugs with KDE 4.4.3
Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Diederik de Haas: > On 2010-05-06 Martin Steigerwald wrote: > > Bug 236538 - often does not find resource agents on first start of > > Kontact https://bugs.kde.org/236538 > > > > Bug 236539 - dbus session bus not available on first start of > > Kontact - race condition? > > https://bugs.kde.org/236539 > > I can confirm both of these bugs. > Possible 'workaround' can be found at: > http://userbase.kde.org/Akonadi_4.4/Troubleshooting > > ie wrt 236538: close Kontact. Start KAddressBook standalone. Quit > KAddressBook. Start Kontact. Where? I just found a work-around for the MySQL issue under "Table 'mysql. servers' doesn't exist" that I do not believe to really fix the bug. I believe that /etc/akonadi/mysql-global.conf should just work. This might be one of the packaging related issues, but I'd like to have upstream feedback on that one as well. My current work-around is just to close Kontact completely again and start it another time. This will work for now. Apart from that I am not interested in work-arounds. I am interested in *fixes*. Oh well and then there is: - Environment Setup The Akonadi server searches for Akonadi agents and resources in the paths defined in the XDG_DATA_DIRS environment variable. If Akonadi complains about not finding agents or resources, check if this variable is set correctly. Also keep in mind that even if set in a current console session, it might not have been set when starting the server. Starting the server manually in the current console session excludes this cause. - But why should I set it when it works automatically out of the box on second start of Kontact? I am hesitant to *fix* things by work-arounds that customize my Akonadi installation and possible create problems on upgrades. I expect Akonadi to just work *out of the box* and rather help with getting it into this shape, by reporting each and any bug I find. Thats as much I can do as long as I do not want to dig into Akonadi as a developer. Ciao, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: akonadi first time start bugs with KDE 4.4.3
On 2010-05-06 Martin Steigerwald wrote: > > Possible 'workaround' can be found at: > > http://userbase.kde.org/Akonadi_4.4/Troubleshooting > > > > ie wrt 236538: close Kontact. Start KAddressBook standalone. Quit > > KAddressBook. Start Kontact. > > Where? 3.8 I can't see any details in my Address Book At the moment, the cause of this is not identified, but the cure is simple. Close Kontact, and start KAddressBook as a stand-alone application. After you close it you will be able to use it within Kontact. It seems that something is not being triggered when Kontact launches, and I expect this to be identified and fixed soon. This seems to mainly affect version 4.4.0. > My current work-around is just to close Kontact completely again and start > it another time. This will work for now. > > Apart from that I am not interested in work-arounds. I am interested in > *fixes*. I'm interesting in fixes as well and not (so much) in workarounds. But a workaround _could_ help in fixing the bug, although I'm not too sure in this case, since I got the workaround from userbase.kde.org. btw, I'm just confirming your findings, no need to bite my head off. Diederik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061230.16397.didi.deb...@cknow.org
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 05/06/2010 06:10 AM, Marc Haber wrote: Hi, On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 11:39:04AM +0200, Frederik Schwarzer wrote: Why is KDE 4 for you no option? Does it not work for you? Or do you just not like the concepts? The KDE developers are open for suggestions, as long as these are not "give me kicker back" or alike. Konsole 4's Profile handling is utterly broken. There are multiple bugs open upstream about this, none of which has been commented on by the developers. I don't see any interest of upstream in fixing these issues. I still hope that 4.4.3 will fix the krunner instabilities that were introduced in 4.4. These two issues make me wish to have kde3 back every single day. Eye candy is important, which kde4 has more than kde3, but breaking my bread-and-butter application that badly is a real turn-off. Greetings Marc Im using kde 4.4.3 and I rather like it. However there is a fork of KDE 3.5.x http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/ You could compile the packages yourself. Yes before i get flamed for it i know its ubuntu but however the code it freely accessible from the kde trunk so it would not be all that hard to compile it.
KDED4 blocking Weather Applets
Hi, since this seems to be the time to complain about KDE, I'd like to ask for help on an old issue: kded4 prevent the plasma weather applets from working. When I login to my KDE session the weather applets fail to retrieve any data. I've confirmed with Wireshark/TCPdump that there is no network traffic at that time. As soon as I kill kded4 the weather applets startk working immedeately. Is there are another workaround than killing kded4 (since that messes up some other things in KDE) or, even better, a fix available? -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards Dominik signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: akonadi first time start bugs with KDE 4.4.3
Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Diederik de Haas: > On 2010-05-06 Martin Steigerwald wrote: > > > Possible 'workaround' can be found at: > > > http://userbase.kde.org/Akonadi_4.4/Troubleshooting > > > > > > ie wrt 236538: close Kontact. Start KAddressBook standalone. Quit > > > KAddressBook. Start Kontact. > > > > Where? > > 3.8 I can't see any details in my Address Book > > At the moment, the cause of this is not identified, but the cure is > simple. Close Kontact, and start KAddressBook as a stand-alone > application. After you close it you will be able to use it within > Kontact. It seems that something is not being triggered when Kontact > launches, and I expect this to be identified and fixed soon. This > seems to mainly affect version 4.4.0. Thanks. I overlooked this. For me its enough to just stop Kontact and start it another time. > > My current work-around is just to close Kontact completely again and > > start it another time. This will work for now. > > > > Apart from that I am not interested in work-arounds. I am interested > > in *fixes*. > > I'm interesting in fixes as well and not (so much) in workarounds. > But a workaround _could_ help in fixing the bug, although I'm not too > sure in this case, since I got the workaround from userbase.kde.org. > > btw, I'm just confirming your findings, no need to bite my head off. Hey, I did not meant to bite your head off. I eat mostly vegan, but at least vegetarian. ;) Thanks for your help! Ciao, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: akonadi first time start bugs with KDE 4.4.3
Am Donnerstag, 6. Mai 2010, 12:14:41 schrieb Martin Steigerwald: > My current work-around is just to close Kontact completely again and start > it another time. This will work for now. The same here. The same problems, the same "work-around" and the same "I don't wan't workarounds but bug fixes". Hopefully this'll get fixed soon. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards Dominik signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDED4 blocking Weather Applets
Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Dominik Schulz: > Hi, Hi Dominik, > since this seems to be the time to complain about KDE, I'd like to ask Although I tend to get into complain mode as well I think we should try to stay as constructive as possible. ;) Its sometimes not easy tough, when things don't work and did not get fixed for some time. > for help on an old issue: kded4 prevent the plasma weather applets > from working. When I login to my KDE session the weather applets fail > to retrieve any data. I've confirmed with Wireshark/TCPdump that there > is no network traffic at that time. As soon as I kill kded4 the > weather applets startk working immedeately. Is there are another > workaround than killing kded4 (since that messes up some other things > in KDE) or, even better, a fix available? I just gave in to use network manager. I think there is a bug report as well. Yes, here: https://bugs.kde.org/232469 Ciao, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
> Konsole 4's Profile handling is utterly broken. There are multiple > bugs open upstream about this, none of which has been commented on by > the developers. I don't see any interest of upstream in fixing these > issues. > Thanks, Marc. What is Profile handling? If you paste the bug numbers I will triage and possibly bring more attention to the matter. Thanks. > I still hope that 4.4.3 will fix the krunner instabilities that were > introduced in 4.4. > What instabilities introduced in 4.4? It's been unstable since 4.0! Seriously, though I still do get some plasma crashes in 4.4.2, it is much improved from the 4.0 days. And since plasma restart automatically in seconds, it doesn't even bother me if it still crashes. Do you have the debug symbols installed? You can use KDE tools to submit a backtrace on a crash in that case. All you have to do is to click through the wizard. > These two issues make me wish to have kde3 back every single day. Eye > candy is important, which kde4 has more than kde3, but breaking my > bread-and-butter application that badly is a real turn-off. > The eye-candy in KDE 4 was just a consequence of using Qt4. Application stability is priority, the problem is that the people who are now experiencing crashes at this stage of development are not filing crash reports! When the early adopters moved to 4.0 and 4.1, they filed crash reports and now their systems are stable. File those reports, please! It is the only way to fix it! -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/n2h880dece01005060412ue807c8a7ydf4096d90bf42...@mail.gmail.com
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
* On 2010 06 May 02:13 -0500, Diederik de Haas wrote: > I don't get what you're trying to accomplish. > > On 2010-05-05 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: > > In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail -> > > Akonadi -> mysql-server). > > So you don't like the dependency to Akonadi? Too bad. Regardless the rationale, this seems to be an attitude that has become very pervasive among KDE developers with the advent of KDE4 and it has me looking seriously at the alternatives. I no longer recommend KDE to other users due to the "my way or the highway" attitude I've encountered since running KDE 4.2 over a year ago and encountering various issues. - Nate >> -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100506112823.gs28...@n0nb.us
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 06 May 2010, Ana Guerrero was heard to say: > On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 03:17:43AM -0300, Jorge Gonçalves wrote: > > Maybe use dummy packages, or rename the packages so that KDE 3.5 > > could remain installed, and not be forced to upgrade to Kde4. > > No, there is not sane way and there is nobody interested on it. While the former is certainly true, the latter is demonstrably false. KDE3 was excellent. I do not like KDE4. Curt- - -- Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBS+Kq4y9Y35yItIgBAQKkXQf6AknSHCTnz4U+O7J7ivfiHqVVFUNh/Wcx fK52r0ZywB0qZfy8YiWjIJ7VUce8tMLS5P72pHVXGSGt2mdl6tzVT1t9vlhHCCNR lvAJ1TRBnjKCHvYE630sPZDt8WOW7Wb86ssu7J6KZKVeMWZKdYnDGc1HcirYWlhi cy/dqRLdiXPhbLuYTWkBlBMj+ty6LPMt0BOqQF/2/5eGIHR0SHnCIDGpJ+Sa6avP 9/mpc648+ll66YqgPgNFc6ExodfFP601aWCeBaAJXg23WACTaAj588JaoTI3nD4o EPZY9cbEdOahBdrOykPRibnzEVUXt7Ije68YF2EQFQWtnPPHLQ+cTA== =cPeP -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005060741.29747.howl...@priss.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 2010-05-06, Curt Howland wrote: > > On Thursday 06 May 2010, Ana Guerrero was heard to say: >> On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 03:17:43AM -0300, Jorge Gonçalves wrote: >> > Maybe use dummy packages, or rename the packages so that KDE 3.5 >> > could remain installed, and not be forced to upgrade to Kde4. >> >> No, there is not sane way and there is nobody interested on it. > > While the former is certainly true, the latter is demonstrably false. Where is your code? I will repeat "No one is interested in doing it". /Sune -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnhu5bem.rvp.nos...@sshway.ssh.pusling.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
>> No, there is not sane way and there is nobody interested on it. > > While the former is certainly true, the latter is demonstrably false. > Agreed, there is huge demand for KDE 3, even still. I think that Ana meant that there are no devs interested in it. > KDE3 was excellent. I do not like KDE4. > If you could elaborate on that, I might be able to get some things fixed. Do you simply "not like" or are you having problems? -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/l2w880dece01005060502y59e8f15bta4016d30a425d...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
* On 2010 06 May 01:35 -0500, Jorge Gonçalves wrote: > Hello! > > First, thank you for the great distro that is Debian, one of the best. > > I would like to suggest you some way so that the users keep on using > the good old KDE 3.5 when they migrate to the upcoming Lenny. Others have probably pointed this out, Lenny has 3.5, the upcoming Squeeze will not. > Maybe use dummy packages, or rename the packages so that KDE 3.5 could > remain installed, and not be forced to upgrade to Kde4. That ship has sailed and it isn't coming back. KDE 3.5 is considered dead. Why some motivated person has not forked it yet has escaped me. If I had the time, resources, and ability, it would be worthwhile to me to see the KDE 3.5 codebase live on. If nothing else, the Lenny source tarballs would be a starting point for a new branch. I'd expect some pushback from the KDE devs so it's likely the fork could not call itself KDE. Some will say that KDE 3.5 can go no further which was also said of XMMS which spawned Beep Media Player which spawned Audacious which is alive and well, last I checked. As I see it, KDE4 has been given 2+ years to match KDE 3.5 and they've been unable to do so thus the time has come for someone to seriously consider reviving the KDE 3.5 codebase. > I really feel sorry that KDE 3 series is no more being developed, and > when the day cames that I no longer will be able to use KDE 3, I will > switch to Apple or even Windows, but NEVER to kde4 or Gnome! > (and I feel many users out there think like me!!!) Well, don't go throwing the baby out with the bathwater as we say over here! I felt the same way but even though it is quirky, XFCE works fairly well as does GNOME in Linux Mint 8. Still, either pales in comparison to the KDE 3.5 as does KDE4 but at the end of the day, the DE is really not why I use a Linux distribution in the first place. So jumping to a proprietary OS is not an option. - Nate >> > Thank you, keep the good work, Debian is one of the best. Agreed. No matter the distro I choose, they are all Debian based. - Nate >> -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100506120356.gt28...@n0nb.us
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
[Nate Bargmann - Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 13:28:23] > * On 2010 06 May 02:13 -0500, Diederik de Haas wrote: > > I don't get what you're trying to accomplish. > > > > On 2010-05-05 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: > > > In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail -> > > > Akonadi -> mysql-server). > > > > So you don't like the dependency to Akonadi? Too bad. > > Regardless the rationale, this seems to be an attitude that has become > very pervasive among KDE developers with the advent of KDE4 and it has > me looking seriously at the alternatives. I no longer recommend KDE to > other users due to the "my way or the highway" attitude I've encountered > since running KDE 4.2 over a year ago and encountering various issues. I certainly understand both sides here. The hardest break for KDE 4 was/is probably the social provocation it induced. For over a year, the developers that were working hard on getting things fixed did hear a lot of "you are stupid", "you do not listen to users" and "give me kicker back" comments. It's not just the developers to blame if they do not have the patience to answer every "akonady sucks" comment with proper reasoning. Regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061422.51375.schwarz...@gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
I still have both operating. My KDE3.5 was locally compiled but I still have to do some footwork in /etc/profiles and the startkde scripts to set paths appropriately. But both work no sweat. So the backports are an option and since Ubuntu stores its KDE libraries differently than "pure" Debian, it should be easier than my way. However, while I agree KDE4 has taken a newer direction and is slower, one can configure it to work more like the old favorite. Your desktop and be the desktop folder "containment" and then work from there. Or try one of the lighter-weight alternatives. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061543.12340.d_ba...@012.net.il
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 06 May 2010, Sune Vuorela was heard to say: > On 2010-05-06, Curt Howland wrote: > > On Thursday 06 May 2010, Ana Guerrero was heard to say: > >> No, there is not sane way and there is nobody interested on it. > > > > While the former is certainly true, the latter is demonstrably > > false. > > Where is your code? > > I will repeat "No one is interested in doing it". That is not what you said the first time. > /Sune Curt- - -- Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBS+K8Fy9Y35yItIgBAQKVlAf/bUxX3Ch3WlZ9x1ess6a4hJzPVw6XJH4O 2t2z52b/Y0YSKuUYJwGqRzQB3S7xoHz9Cqb0ZO2fxl6NW1J9A9xnGund0H8C5Qzg 2X+H5zkZMA3gUREFfgcec57IEv5v2XnnyFBuXgAkiOr/Kzz+04wQKqMW1GFkA8OB i/BiKWGd4hxsBbmyIrGbgHg4IJpwSjrp60PevYWktOB+QnCsUFQGyKy5cJt1a95X 6WOTN7rVJdlxMAlKC6DT5P9Sf3aZMcw8QiLin4bbKZjzfBVi8dsxtg6GsR4+VyD3 6OoKXih7dsyH4fgUk5AMs763nz5t0ZyS1YZez/e9OpjcXn/CB7rFIg== =luXA -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005060854.47214.howl...@priss.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
>> Maybe use dummy packages, or rename the packages so that KDE 3.5 could >> remain installed, and not be forced to upgrade to Kde4. > > That ship has sailed and it isn't coming back. KDE 3.5 is considered > dead. Why some motivated person has not forked it yet has escaped me. > Not exactly forked, but maintained: http://apt.pearsoncomputing.net/ > Still, either pales in > comparison to the KDE 3.5 as does KDE4 Please, let me know what KDE 4 is missing for you. KDE 4.4 has only a handful of regressions from KDE 3.5.10, and they are not dealbreakers. Some of those are addressed in KDE 4.5. The "KDE 4 sux" time has passed. If you still have problems with KDE 4, then please let me know what they are so that they can be fixed. Thanks! -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/u2j880dece01005060559i8d269387ue479fb65b3fe4...@mail.gmail.com
Re: KDED4 blocking Weather Applets
Am Donnerstag, 6. Mai 2010, 12:51:10 schrieb Martin Steigerwald: > I just gave in to use network manager. I think there is a bug report as > well. Yes, here: > https://bugs.kde.org/232469 Thanks for that pointer! That's a solution - at least for me. $> aptitude remove network-manager -> It works :) Wo needs this *** network-manager anyway? But honestly, how stupid can one be to rely only on the network-manager to determine if a system is online or not? I thought everyone knew that Mozilla bug you cited ... -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards Dominik signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
> However, while I agree KDE4 has taken a newer direction and is slower, one can > configure it to work more like the old favorite. Your desktop and be the > desktop folder "containment" and then work from there. > KDE 4.4 is lighter than KDE 3.5 was, even with desktop effects enabled. The only time you will see it appear that KDE 4 is "heavy" is if you are loading the Qt3 libraries in addition to the Qt4 libraries, for instance by using KDE3 applications. I understand that some people still need Quanta or the old Kdevelop, but if you are not using KDE 3 applications (and therefore loading Qt3 libraries) then Qt4 is lighter than Qt3 was. > Or try one of the lighter-weight alternatives. > The issue applies to the alternatives as well, unless you can find a Qt3 alternative. Gnome and XFCE are both GTK. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/u2i880dece01005060603y3b094cacw9810f35e44d40...@mail.gmail.com
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
* On 2010 06 May 07:27 -0500, Frederik Schwarzer wrote: > [Nate Bargmann - Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 13:28:23] > > * On 2010 06 May 02:13 -0500, Diederik de Haas wrote: > > > I don't get what you're trying to accomplish. > > > > > > On 2010-05-05 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: > > > > In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail -> > > > > Akonadi -> mysql-server). > > > > > > So you don't like the dependency to Akonadi? Too bad. > > > > Regardless the rationale, this seems to be an attitude that has become > > very pervasive among KDE developers with the advent of KDE4 and it has > > me looking seriously at the alternatives. I no longer recommend KDE to > > other users due to the "my way or the highway" attitude I've encountered > > since running KDE 4.2 over a year ago and encountering various issues. > > I certainly understand both sides here. The hardest break for KDE 4 was/is > probably the social provocation it induced. > For over a year, the developers that were working hard on getting things > fixed did hear a lot of "you are stupid", "you do not listen to users" > and "give me kicker back" comments. It's not just the developers to blame > if they do not have the patience to answer every "akonady sucks" comment > with proper reasoning. During that time, I gave the devs the benefit of the doubt understanding the new directions they were taking and buying the hype that things would be improved. After a a year of use of KDE4, I disagree that much is improved for *me*. I'm fine with the devs doing whatever they want with the codebase--it's theirs after all--but when I as a simple user feel left behind at the station then I must consider the alternatives. It's not just the multitude of server processes that KDE4 seems to insist on running, but the lost functionality. To wit, I participated in an open bug on Konsole where the KDE4 version no longer generates the PC speaker style beep. I understand that to many the beep is annoying but I've heard it for so long that I now rely on it for efficient use of the terminal. The dev's reply was essentially, "Too bad." Still, I'm not alone in regretting this small loss of functionality. After all, the code for the beep had to actively been removed in the newer versions of Konsole but as a Konsole user, I was never asked in any way how this decision would affect me. "Too bad." Along the same lines, I cannot be convinced that Device Notifier is a suitable replacement for the similar functionality in KDE 3.5. Other tasks that I found easy in 3.5 are now cumbersome at best *for me* in KDE4. Now that my system is poised to update to KDE 4.4, I think this is where I'll get off the train and let KDE go where it wants and I shall go elsewhere. Thanks for the fish. - Nate >> -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100506130552.ga18...@n0nb.us
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
* On 2010 06 May 08:03 -0500, Dotan Cohen wrote: > >> Maybe use dummy packages, or rename the packages so that KDE 3.5 could > >> remain installed, and not be forced to upgrade to Kde4. > > > > That ship has sailed and it isn't coming back. ??KDE 3.5 is considered > > dead. ??Why some motivated person has not forked it yet has escaped me. > > > > Not exactly forked, but maintained: > http://apt.pearsoncomputing.net/ I saw that later in the thread. It looks interesting. Thanks. > > ??Still, either pales in > > comparison to the KDE 3.5 as does KDE4 > > Please, let me know what KDE 4 is missing for you. KDE 4.4 has only a > handful of regressions from KDE 3.5.10, and they are not dealbreakers. > Some of those are addressed in KDE 4.5. I'm tired of typing this time and again: No speaker beep in Konsole--dev says, "Too bad." Device Notifier is a poor design and not easily changed to simply allow mounting so removable medium rather than starting Dolphin each time. No right click on the desktop to bring up the menu. Other things that just don't seem inuitive *for me* that were in KDE 3.5. These are small things to be sure and likely of little interest to anyone else. To me they are the little things that make 3.5 a pleasure to use and 4.x an impediment to my produtivity. > The "KDE 4 sux" time has passed. If you still have problems with KDE > 4, then please let me know what they are so that they can be fixed. The time for "I tried it for 15 minutes and KDE4 sux" comments has long passed, yes. I've given it a fair shake, I feel, I've tried asking politely for the things I liked about 3.5 to restored in 4.x only to be brushed aside by KDE devs. So *for me* KDE4 is not my vision of an ideal desktop environment. YMMV and I wish the KDE4 team and its users all the best. I may check in again some day and see how things are going. This is Free Software after all where one may come and go as one pleases. If nothing else, KDE4 has given me the benefit of giving the other DEs a fair evaluation, something I'd not done when I was happy with KDE 3.4 and 3.5. - Nate >> -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100506132209.gb18...@n0nb.us
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Nate Bargmann wrote: > Now that my system is poised to update to KDE 4.4, I think this > is where I'll get off the train and let KDE go where it wants and I > shall go elsewhere. > > Thanks for the fish. > > - Nate >> Free software is all about freedom: - developers are free to assign their time to whatever they see fit - other developers are free to fork code and use a given codebase - users are free to use the code - … or not. You are free to choose whatever software fits you best. Your problem seems that Debian won't ship KDE 3.5 because nobody (so far) is interesting in doing the work. No ranting will change that (rather the opposite even). I see two paths you can take : * change DE and stop ranting * contribute and change the situation That's just IMHO. Cheers, OdyX -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/hruge0$8k...@dough.gmane.org
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Curt Howland wrote: > On Thursday 06 May 2010, Sune Vuorela was heard to say: >> >> Where is your code? >> >> I will repeat "No one is interested in doing it". > > That is not what you said the first time. > > Curt- So, let me ask the above question again: where is your code ? Are you interested in doing it ? At that game, there are two types of players: those who rant and contribute to fix the root of their rant (aka code) and those who rant and do nothing. We are all volunteers and among those volunteers, nobody is interested in maintaining KDE 3.5 within Debian. I don't see this as a problem; its just a fact. Ranting wont change the facts. Cheers, OdyX -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/hrugl8$ch...@dough.gmane.org
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 06 May 2010, Dotan Cohen was heard to say: > Agreed, there is huge demand for KDE 3, even still. I think that > Ana meant that there are no devs interested in it. That does indeed appear to be the case, which is one reason I stopped listing my objections a long time ago. Shouting at the tide is futile. Ana's further comment to "show her the code" as it were, is also something I fully understand. I am not a developer, nor programmer, just a Debian user. > > KDE3 was excellent. I do not like KDE4. > > If you could elaborate on that, I might be able to get some things > fixed. Do you simply "not like" or are you having problems? Thank you, I appreciate that. Really, I do. Unfortunately, my problems with KDE4 are not bugs, they're systematic. I liked having my removable devices show up as desktop icons, for instance, and that feature is just plain gone. So while I will continue to use KDE applications by preference, and KDM (although I have yet to figure out how to customize it in Squeeze, I miss Kcontrol very much), I've pretty much given up on ever enjoying KDE4 as a "desktop". > Dotan Cohen Curt- - -- Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBS+LHKS9Y35yItIgBAQJA1gf+Iv6hZ+YqC/EERnuDxpA/vsXAUbOKOwHr abl10rxgihSf4OlZBOXvu0vYEGBTJXczhbvyhwG6snzg63CTYAQL/mvs/HxRpQWb GNJ9P1X1JXJS1LIQYhyh5b8AkLzOwEEZU6rpySOVtGSY6EDfLikauNdGdgSrnJVq umTsVFWCE66JlHTFfuk3tiuNTx1ITocMHRI5vqhqgKbSWxTfh04aZxx2/9SbKwv2 7NiWD0F/UsKtvBsCTXThnGmUtWKe9Vc1miDBI+mmBCqbANZNiIu8lZ9D6mYMeI3N DY7j9aaVbcxv/vkP7llfpNH2v0nmMJ9K6qLhX2QL3Jc6zwnIPEeXXg== =PvH2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005060942.08011.howl...@priss.com
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On 2010-05-06 Nate Bargmann wrote: > > So you don't like the dependency to Akonadi? Too bad. > > Regardless the rationale, this seems to be an attitude that has become > very pervasive among KDE developers with the advent of KDE4 and it has > me looking seriously at the alternatives. I no longer recommend KDE to > other users due to the "my way or the highway" attitude I've encountered > since running KDE 4.2 over a year ago and encountering various issues. Note: "too bad" are my words and I'm not a kde developer. Following blog post by Aaron Seigo yielded all the usual responses: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2010/05/i-dont-need-no-stinking-nepomuk-right.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061549.26617.didi.deb...@cknow.org
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 06 May 2010 it was so written: > So, let me ask the above question again: where is your code ? I was thinking about getting all obsequious and fawning at the High Priests of Development, to verbally bow in thanks for the scraps of code that we mere users are able to pick up off the ground after the Priests have passed, but then I realized that there are lots of people for whom English isn't a first language, and sarcasm doesn't work in email very well anyway. What's left for a user to do? As Nate put it a moment ago, just move on. > Are _you_ interested in doing it ? Backporting KDE4 applications to a KDE3 working environment is beyond my skills. I can't even get Squeeze KDM to use a different background as it is. > At that game, there are two types of players: those who rant and > contribute to fix the root of their rant (aka code) and those who > rant and do nothing. Going back to obsequious pandering is looking very tempting. Yes, us mere users have nothing to contribute, since we don't write code. > We are all volunteers and among those volunteers, nobody is > interested in maintaining KDE 3.5 within Debian. I don't see this > as a problem; its just a fact. Indeed. And I assure you, that fact is not lost on anyone. > Ranting wont change the facts. Let them eat cake. > OdyX Curt- - - -- Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBS+LLAC9Y35yItIgBAQKlVwf/TpRme9P/nghvduVJ14Lao0+ejEA7Vdro AdkSgUIHkxYx1PzcW4qISXkC3VL1ZWz8ZZCxXn6o2Z/C/5582tif4A/tpaeISPfg lgC2RSNRLZIGOqo4t9iWWp8cCWbnPMP1GZaq/PRh6AaFDvk+bJ7KdP7Wg/JjK7xE iilXzb0S+gOYlacvJ6f28Nv9sQJMsLFcqlS4g6F3mKkAEKWERwI5Y36nCunJvdEw 5/90K1ZWWAv7HMR7iaWmiX61pg6vOru7KewLw+0OesEbdPF28WhCpHqAZHHr4ep+ wcP88A/uYa9s+wC/KhGuZ8V12Bfgm/ZL4K8WcTrXhoLXS6RbJhGYEA== =svYH -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005060958.24930.howl...@priss.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Am Donnerstag, 6. Mai 2010 schrieb Nate Bargmann: > Device Notifier is a poor design and not easily changed to simply allow > mounting so removable medium rather than starting Dolphin each time. FWIW, in 4.4.x it is possible to mount directly from the popup without starting dolphin. And you even see the amount of diskspace used. > No right click on the desktop to bring up the menu. Works for me. Just right click on the desktop to configure it, go to the "Mouse Actions" tab and set it to open the K-Menu on right-click. > Other things that just don't seem inuitive *for me* that were in KDE > 3.5. Feel free to report and and maybe they will get fixed. Cheers, Carsten signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
El Jueves, 6 de Mayo de 2010, Curt Howland escribió: > Thank you, I appreciate that. Really, I do. Unfortunately, my problems > with KDE4 are not bugs, they're systematic. I liked having my > removable devices show up as desktop icons, for instance, and that > feature is just plain gone. I miss the media:/ kioslave. Does somebody know if it was gone because nobody ported it, or by design? If it's the first case, maybe somebody ports it, and you can use it in a folderview. I'm having the feeling that many users which are unhappy with KDE 4.X are just a feature or two away of accepting it. -- Alex (a.k.a. suy) | GPG ID 0x0B8B0BC2 http://barnacity.net/ | http://disperso.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061638.40509@badopi.org
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Sune Vuorela: > On 2010-05-06, Curt Howland wrote: > > On Thursday 06 May 2010, Ana Guerrero was heard to say: > >> On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 03:17:43AM -0300, Jorge Gonçalves wrote: > >> > Maybe use dummy packages, or rename the packages so that KDE 3.5 > >> > could remain installed, and not be forced to upgrade to Kde4. > >> > >> No, there is not sane way and there is nobody interested on it. > > > > While the former is certainly true, the latter is demonstrably false. > > Where is your code? > > I will repeat "No one is interested in doing it". That does not seem to be entirely true as was mentioned elsewhere in this thread: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/ However this seems far away from the man-power behind KDE 3 until 3.5.10. To truly get forward with this one it appears to me that way more developers are needed. Who then would have less or no time to work on improving KDE 4. I will stick with KDE 4 - as long as it - as a whole - does get better from release to release. It already got better. It already takes longer than with KDE 3 to get as stable and nice to work with as KDE 3.5.10, but with help of everyone it eventually will get there. And KDE 3.5.10 had issues as well. Especially with KMail that Boyd is so interested in. KMail as of KDE 4.3 *and* 4.4 appears to be way more stable to me regarding that annoying index handling issues. And it has been improved a lot by Thomas McGuire and others. Okular is fine, Dolphin is fine, KWrite, Kate are fine, Dragon player is quite fine, Amarok is quite fine lots of other apps are fine. I think mainly Akonadi, Nepomuk, Plasma, a bit also Phonon needs quite some more stabilization and performance work. -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDED4 blocking Weather Applets
Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Dominik Schulz: > Am Donnerstag, 6. Mai 2010, 12:51:10 schrieb Martin Steigerwald: > > I just gave in to use network manager. I think there is a bug report > > as well. Yes, here: > > https://bugs.kde.org/232469 > > Thanks for that pointer! That's a solution - at least for me. > > $> aptitude remove network-manager > -> It works :) > > Wo needs this *** network-manager anyway? > > But honestly, how stupid can one be to rely only on the network-manager > to determine if a system is online or not? I thought everyone knew > that Mozilla bug you cited ... Okay, well thats the other solution. I gave in and now use network-manager on eth0 as well. I kept it installed when I am somewhere with a WLAN. Actually I am also not that fond of it. If it insists on saying "offline", when it just doesn't know and it knows that it doesn't know, in my eyes its just broken. -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
El Jueves 06 Mayo 2010 10:22:09 Nate Bargmann escribió: > > I'm tired of typing this time and again: > > No speaker beep in Konsole--dev says, "Too bad." > Konsole -> settings -> notifications -> bell in current session -> run "beep" (aptitude install beep) Is this what you want? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061145.02317.budin...@gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Dotan Cohen: > > However, while I agree KDE4 has taken a newer direction and is > > slower, one can configure it to work more like the old favorite. > > Your desktop and be the desktop folder "containment" and then work > > from there. > > KDE 4.4 is lighter than KDE 3.5 was, even with desktop effects > enabled. The only time you will see it appear that KDE 4 is "heavy" is > if you are loading the Qt3 libraries in addition to the Qt4 libraries, > for instance by using KDE3 applications. I understand that some people > still need Quanta or the old Kdevelop, but if you are not using KDE 3 > applications (and therefore loading Qt3 libraries) then Qt4 is lighter > than Qt3 was. Did you measure it? If so, how? -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
>> Please, let me know what KDE 4 is missing for you. KDE 4.4 has only a >> handful of regressions from KDE 3.5.10, and they are not dealbreakers. >> Some of those are addressed in KDE 4.5. > > I'm tired of typing this time and again: > > No speaker beep in Konsole--dev says, "Too bad." > That might be fixed already: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=177861 > Device Notifier is a poor design and not easily changed to simply allow > mounting so removable medium rather than starting Dolphin each time. > Do you mean unmounting? If so, then please comment on this bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=236586 > No right click on the desktop to bring up the menu. > There is now! If it does not work for you as expected in KDE 4,4 then please be very specific about what happened, and what you expected to happen. Thanks. > Other things that just don't seem inuitive *for me* that were in KDE > 3.5. > This is what I'd like to know! It is very subjective, but KDE 3 was very intuitive in some aspects. Tell me what is not intuitive in KDE 4.4 and I will file the bugs. Thanks, this is an important one! I agree that many things are _not_ intuitive. > These are small things to be sure and likely of little interest to > anyone else. To me they are the little things that make 3.5 a pleasure > to use and 4.x an impediment to my produtivity. > No, I agree. Excellence is in the little details. KDE 3 was excellent. We need eyes like your to make KDE 4 excellent as well. >> The "KDE 4 sux" time has passed. If you still have problems with KDE >> 4, then please let me know what they are so that they can be fixed. > > The time for "I tried it for 15 minutes and KDE4 sux" comments has long > passed, yes. I've given it a fair shake, I feel, I've tried asking > politely for the things I liked about 3.5 to restored in 4.x only to be > brushed aside by KDE devs. So *for me* KDE4 is not my vision of an > ideal desktop environment. YMMV and I wish the KDE4 team and its users > all the best. I may check in again some day and see how things are > going. This is Free Software after all where one may come and go as one > pleases. > Of course, and if you are filing bugs then that is appreciated. > If nothing else, KDE4 has given me the benefit of giving the other DEs a > fair evaluation, something I'd not done when I was happy with KDE 3.4 and > 3.5. > You might want to take a look at Gnome Shell, which will become Gnome 3 in half a year. Some nice ideas there. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/v2i880dece01005060805uc205651al9f414e9bfb6e3...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
>> If you could elaborate on that, I might be able to get some things >> fixed. Do you simply "not like" or are you having problems? > > Thank you, I appreciate that. Really, I do. Unfortunately, my problems > with KDE4 are not bugs, they're systematic. That's fine, that's exactly what I'm interested in. Bugs anyone can find. I need to know what is not intuitive in KDE 4. > I liked having my > removable devices show up as desktop icons, for instance, and that > feature is just plain gone. > Please comment on this bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=204953 > So while I will continue to use KDE applications by preference, and > KDM (although I have yet to figure out how to customize it in > Squeeze, I miss Kcontrol very much), I've pretty much given up on > ever enjoying KDE4 as a "desktop". > Don't give up. Tell me what the issues are. Thanks. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/t2z880dece01005060817ldc460104z9b78cc4c6395f...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 2010-05-06, Alejandro Exojo wrote: > El Jueves, 6 de Mayo de 2010, Curt Howland escribió: >> Thank you, I appreciate that. Really, I do. Unfortunately, my problems >> with KDE4 are not bugs, they're systematic. I liked having my >> removable devices show up as desktop icons, for instance, and that >> feature is just plain gone. > > I miss the media:/ kioslave. Does somebody know if it was gone because nobody > ported it, or by design? By design. It only almost worked good. Codewise it is replaced by the kfileplacesmodel, I'm sure one could write a plasma widget around it quite easy if one wanted. /Sune -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnhu5nlt.rvp.nos...@sshway.ssh.pusling.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
> Do you know when 4.5 will be out and stable? The guys from kde seem to drop > really stable in their x.5 branches :-) > August, I think. > I am also not planning moving to kde4 unless I'm sure it's working for me. I > have a lot of custom software and I'm not sure it's working. I'll have to > test it soon (again). > Then get out there this weekend and test! Seriously, if you want the fixes to make it in time for KDE 4.4 then _now_ is the time! > For now my parents are running debian testing with kde4.4 (I think) and they > are very glad. It's much much better then kde3. It took them some time to > get use to the new widget layouts, but recently they admitted they like it > much better then kde3. > Yes, KDE 4 seems to be much better for the average Joe. But that is the reason that power users suffer at the moment! A.Joe already has Gnome... -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/s2w880dece01005060823jc9c053a6sf99fb0959135f...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
> I miss the media:/ kioslave. Does somebody know if it was gone because nobody > ported it, or by design? > The bluetooth kioslave has a patch, but nobody has reviewed it: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=193241 The Device Notifier plasmoid and Places menu take care of all other media. > I'm having the feeling that many users which are unhappy with KDE 4.X are just > a feature or two away of accepting it. > That sounds like a good assessment. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/o2z880dece01005060828u24fcf3bes951cbc5877106...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 13:12, Dotan Cohen wrote: > The eye-candy in KDE 4 was just a consequence of using Qt4. And of making Plasma core technology. Going so far that for several minor releases, there was no sane way to display files on your desktop. Granted, I don't use that anyway, this is just a random example. > Application stability is priority, the problem is that the people who > are now experiencing crashes at this stage of development are not > filing crash reports! When the early adopters moved to 4.0 and 4.1, > they filed crash reports and now their systems are stable. File those > reports, please! It is the only way to fix it! Not quite true, some of us still submit every single crash. They _are_ becoming fewer, too. 4.4.3 is about on par with KDE 3.1 or 3.2, I'd say. Without wanting to start anything, the transition from 2.x to 3.x was eye-opening and exciting; the downgrade from 3.5.10 to 4.1.0 felt _very_ painful. Richard PS: I know how much work the KDE team puts into our binaries and I can't thank them enough! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/w2x2d460de71005060828ldc106703z643462139044...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
>> KDE 4.4 is lighter than KDE 3.5 was, even with desktop effects >> enabled. The only time you will see it appear that KDE 4 is "heavy" is >> if you are loading the Qt3 libraries in addition to the Qt4 libraries, >> for instance by using KDE3 applications. I understand that some people >> still need Quanta or the old Kdevelop, but if you are not using KDE 3 >> applications (and therefore loading Qt3 libraries) then Qt4 is lighter >> than Qt3 was. > > Did you measure it? If so, how? > Actually, I personally have not. However, this was actually the design goal of Qt4 and many users have tested and reported lower memory usage in KDE 4 compared to KDE 3. I don't know about CPU, though. Also, the last time I ran KDE 3.5.10 it felt was noticeably lagging compared to my then-current KDE 4.3 setup on the same hardware. Note that the KDE 4.3 even had quite a few other apps installed, and the KDE 3.5.10 was a new install that I did to triage a possible regression. Like I said, though, if you need Qt3 libraries in addition to Qt4 (for Quanta, for instance) then you will be using the memory of _both_, naturally, and that is a lot! -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/t2k880dece01005060833m28d2878cj50e94205c9cb0...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 14:59, Dotan Cohen wrote: > Please, let me know what KDE 4 is missing for you. KDE 4.4 has only a > handful of regressions from KDE 3.5.10, and they are not dealbreakers. > Some of those are addressed in KDE 4.5. Not missing as such, but there is one thing which annoys me to no end: On a Phenom X2 with 4 GiB RAM and a pretty new GFX card whose name I don't remember, I get random hangs while doing nothing more than light surfing with some minimal background activity. KDE 3.5.10 (almost) never has this issue. I know because I still use KDE 3.5.10 at work and even though the hardware is _years_ older, it's a _lot_ faster. And yes, I have Nepomuk off, no fancy effects, no nothing. Unfortunately, this is nothing you can file a bug against. Of course, computers become faster all the time and so the issue will somewhat solve itself over time, but still. The rest which annoys me can be found in the bug tracker. Richard PS: With 4.4, I migrated my gf to KDE 4. With 4.5, I might even start using unstable, and not lenny, at work again. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/h2n2d460de71005060843z7357e25avf427c3af53a92...@mail.gmail.com
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
El Miércoles 05 Mayo 2010 17:24:49 Ana Guerrero escribió: > Hi, > > Given no everybody reads planet Debian, here goes a copy of > http://ekaia.org/blog/2010/05/05/kde-443-in-unstable/ > > > Following Qt 4.6.2, uploaded a couple of weeks ago, KDE 4.4.3, has finally > found its way to unstable in the last 48 hours. > Given KDE 4.5.0 is not expected until August, it is likely the next point > release, 4.4.4, will be the KDE version included in next Debian stable, > Squeeze. What this means: go and update to 4.4.3, test, and when you find a > bug, please, follow this instructions [0]. If you are lazy to read it: > report upstream bugs at the KDE Bugzilla and report the > packaging/integration bugs in the Debian BTS. When in doubt, you have the > Debian KDE mailing list [1], that is being successful so far in > maintaining a good signal-noise ratio. > > ... Just for add a good comment, I'm testing 4.4.3 and it working very good!! Thanks!! The only problem I'm having is that kmail is not searching in the full address list when writing a new message. But i can drag from kaddressbook for now... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061250.53353.budin...@gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 15:22, Nate Bargmann wrote: > Other things that just don't seem inuitive *for me* that were in KDE > 3.5. I dare anyone to create a new application hotkey without using google ;) Why this feature can not be accessed from System Settings directly is beyond me. And I mean _creating_, not editing existing ones. > These are small things to be sure and likely of little interest to > anyone else. To me they are the little things that make 3.5 a pleasure > to use and 4.x an impediment to my produtivity. To be fair, KDE 4 has a lot of minor but awesome changes. I just discovered the tabs in KMail, today. Awesome. Richard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/u2n2d460de71005060850rf6794d53sb16ccbc1e4242...@mail.gmail.com
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
El Jueves 06 Mayo 2010 12:50:52 Facundo Aguilera escribió: > > Just for add a good comment, I'm testing 4.4.3 and it working very good!! > Thanks!! > > > The only problem I'm having is that kmail is not searching in the full > address list when writing a new message. But i can drag from kaddressbook > for now... Solved, I just create again the akonadi resource in systemsettings... the old setting was removed in the upgrade. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061259.42306.budin...@gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 17:28, Dotan Cohen wrote: >> I'm having the feeling that many users which are unhappy with KDE 4.X are >> just >> a feature or two away of accepting it. >> > > That sounds like a good assessment. Agreed. Richard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/y2o2d460de71005060902w46d63766j7ee12bf46831f...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
> On a Phenom X2 with 4 GiB RAM and a pretty new GFX card whose name > I don't remember, I get random hangs while doing nothing more than light > surfing with some minimal background activity. What browser? Is it only on specific sites? Flash? Heavy Javascript or even Java? What does top show? Can you maybe test that on another distro as well? I remember some KDE 4 versions with light hangs, typing would seem slow, but I don't have that issue anymore. I don't know when it disappeared. > KDE 3.5.10 (almost) never has this issue. I know because I still use KDE > 3.5.10 at work and even though the hardware is _years_ older, it's a _lot_ > faster. > And yes, I have Nepomuk off, no fancy effects, no nothing. > Unfortunately, this is nothing you can file a bug against. > I know, it's not even certain where to file it. KDE? Debian? -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/h2s880dece01005060908mc19d59ads8b35b7e0b845d...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 17:33, Dotan Cohen wrote: > Actually, I personally have not. However, this was actually the design > goal of Qt4 and many users have tested and reported lower memory usage > in KDE 4 compared to KDE 3. I don't know about CPU, though. For KDE 2 -> 3, this was true. I had 128 or 256 MiB of RAM back then and when they announced that KDE 3 would use _less_ RAM, I laughed. Well, they proved me wrong and KDE 3 gave new life to an old machine. With KDE 4.1, I was forced to upgrade from 512 MiB RAM to 1.2 GiB to get from "pretty static pictures" to "slow". > Also, the last time I ran KDE 3.5.10 it felt was noticeably lagging > compared to my then-current KDE 4.3 setup on the same hardware. Note > that the KDE 4.3 even had quite a few other apps installed, and the > KDE 3.5.10 was a new install that I did to triage a possible > regression. As said earlier, I have KDE 4 on a pretty new machine and KDE 3 on an ancient one. If anything, a _lot_ more in installed & running on the KDE 3 machine. The KDE 3 machine is noticably faster in pretty much every regard. YMMV. > Like I said, though, if you need Qt3 libraries in addition to Qt4 (for > Quanta, for instance) then you will be using the memory of _both_, > naturally, and that is a lot! Nope, pure Qt/KDE 4. Richard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/i2l2d460de71005060909u9615296aj6a704e18759c4...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
> I dare anyone to create a new application hotkey without using google ;) > Why this feature can not be accessed from System Settings directly > is beyond me. And I mean _creating_, not editing existing ones. > My system is in Hebrew, so this is translated: System Settings -> Keyboard and Mouse -> Global keyboard shortcuts All right, no amount of right-clicking is getting me anywhere. Let's try: System Settings -> Input and Output RightClick -> New -> Global Shortcut -> Command I give it the name "anki", the command "anki", and a shortcut. It works! -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/q2j880dece01005060914r6e2b525fj16ee518c86cf4...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 18:08, Dotan Cohen wrote: > What browser? Konqui. Is there any other browser on earth? ;) And yes, this is true for both KHTML & Webkit. > Is it only on specific sites? While some sites seem to trigger it more often, this happens with all sites. > Flash? Not if I can avoid it. I have a shell alias which does a fancy `killall nspluginviewer` > Heavy Javascript or even Java? No idea about JavaScript, no Java. It seems to happen with fancier sites that have scrollbars, frames, tables inside the page more often. > What does top show? Nothing I could see as the system is locked up during that time. Note that this is not limited to Konqui, 'merely' happens with it the most. > Can you maybe test that on another distro as well? I remember some KDE > 4 versions with light hangs, typing would seem slow, but I don't have > that issue anymore. I don't know when it disappeared. Realistically, no. Unfortunately, I don't have as much time as I used to have. We are not talking slight delays, either. More like "5 seconds of total freeze". > I know, it's not even certain where to file it. KDE? Debian? Indeed. As the same thing happens on my very slow laptop as well, it's not hardware or anything, at least. Richard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/o2x2d460de71005060914obd650907l64b5f4c971a53...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 18:14, Dotan Cohen wrote: > It works! I will give this way a try at home. Promise :) Richard PS: If I forget, please nag. PPS: Thanks for caring about these issues so much. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/u2h2d460de71005060916r6647ed5cibcd559a807e76...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 6 May 2010 19:09, Richard Hartmann wrote: > On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 17:33, Dotan Cohen wrote: > >> Actually, I personally have not. However, this was actually the design >> goal of Qt4 and many users have tested and reported lower memory usage >> in KDE 4 compared to KDE 3. I don't know about CPU, though. > > For KDE 2 -> 3, this was true. I had 128 or 256 MiB of RAM back then > and when they announced that KDE 3 would use _less_ RAM, I laughed. > Well, they proved me wrong and KDE 3 gave new life to an old machine. > > With KDE 4.1, I was forced to upgrade from 512 MiB RAM to 1.2 GiB > to get from "pretty static pictures" to "slow". > Maybe you were / are still using Qt3 applications? There is nothing wrong with that, but it will be memory-heavy. >> Also, the last time I ran KDE 3.5.10 it felt was noticeably lagging >> compared to my then-current KDE 4.3 setup on the same hardware. Note >> that the KDE 4.3 even had quite a few other apps installed, and the >> KDE 3.5.10 was a new install that I did to triage a possible >> regression. > > As said earlier, I have KDE 4 on a pretty new machine and KDE 3 on an > ancient one. If anything, a _lot_ more in installed & running on the KDE 3 > machine. > The KDE 3 machine is noticably faster in pretty much every regard. > So we agree: the more software on the system, the faster it runs! I'm installing Gimp now... >> Like I said, though, if you need Qt3 libraries in addition to Qt4 (for >> Quanta, for instance) then you will be using the memory of _both_, >> naturally, and that is a lot! > > Nope, pure Qt/KDE 4. > Then I don't know where the problem is / was. How does it run in KDE 4.4? What does top say? -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/y2z880dece01005060918ka5e64b76lc1e23cd6d8f4b...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
>> What browser? > > Konqui. Is there any other browser on earth? ;) > And yes, this is true for both KHTML & Webkit. > Can you try with rekonq or even Firefox? Firefox is a real memory pig. >> What does top show? > > Nothing I could see as the system is locked up during that time. > Try running "top > top.txt". Hopefully that will catch something when it locks up. > We are not talking slight delays, either. More like "5 seconds of total > freeze". > Yeah, I remember those. Nothing but the mouse pointer works (but it doesn't click)? -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/v2y880dece01005060922z51408638s9b5f3bf579def...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 18:18, Dotan Cohen wrote: > Maybe you were / are still using Qt3 applications? There is nothing > wrong with that, but it will be memory-heavy. No; definitely not. > So we agree: the more software on the system, the faster it runs! I'm > installing Gimp now... _Or_ KDE 3 just has less impact and thus leaves more room for the other apps ;) > Then I don't know where the problem is / was. How does it run in KDE > 4.4? What does top say? Nothing you could _really_ put a finger on. Just a slightly higher base load in idle and the occasional sluggish behaviour when actually doing stuff. For reference, while typing this email, my total CPU load is ~12% on the KDE 3 box. On KDE 4, it would be around 20% -- I can get you better numbers at home. Richard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/r2k2d460de71005060924m2c8bd4c9n56ee2811afb6d...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 18:22, Dotan Cohen wrote: > Can you try with rekonq or even Firefox? Firefox is a real memory pig. Iceweasel does not have these issues, but then I almost never use it so the test pool is a _lot_ smaller. Never tried rekonq, I can do so tonight. > Try running "top > top.txt". Hopefully that will catch something when > it locks up. kk. > Yeah, I remember those. Nothing but the mouse pointer works (but it > doesn't click)? Yes. Richard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/q2p2d460de71005060925ge1527e9fpb185bc8596eff...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 07:41:23AM -0400, Curt Howland wrote: > On Thursday 06 May 2010, Ana Guerrero was heard to say: > > On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 03:17:43AM -0300, Jorge Gonçalves wrote: > > > Maybe use dummy packages, or rename the packages so that KDE 3.5 > > > could remain installed, and not be forced to upgrade to Kde4. > > > > No, there is not sane way and there is nobody interested on it. > > While the former is certainly true, the latter is demonstrably false. False? Who from the current maintainers have seen you showing interest in maintaining KDE 3.5? Please demostrate it :-) Ana -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100506171315.ga7...@ana.debian.net
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Wed May 5 2010 23:17:43 Jorge Gonçalves wrote: > I would like to suggest you some way so that the users keep on using > the good old KDE 3.5 when they migrate to the upcoming Lenny. Debian KDE team, My users and I thank you from the bottom of our hearts for maintaining KDE 3.5 in Lenny. My users and I pray that you keep KDE 3.5 (or Trinity) in Squeeze. Even with perfect packaging KDE SC 4 is slow and unreliable, gimmick-rich but feature-poor. KDE SC 4 probably has no future and certainly has no place in Debian STABLE. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061013.46891.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 04:39:02PM +0200, Martin Steigerwald wrote: > Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Sune Vuorela: > > On 2010-05-06, Curt Howland wrote: > > > On Thursday 06 May 2010, Ana Guerrero was heard to say: > > >> On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 03:17:43AM -0300, Jorge Gonçalves wrote: > > >> > Maybe use dummy packages, or rename the packages so that KDE 3.5 > > >> > could remain installed, and not be forced to upgrade to Kde4. > > >> > > >> No, there is not sane way and there is nobody interested on it. > > > > > > While the former is certainly true, the latter is demonstrably false. > > > > Where is your code? > > > > I will repeat "No one is interested in doing it". > > That does not seem to be entirely true as was mentioned elsewhere in this > thread: > > http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/ > > However this seems far away from the man-power behind KDE 3 until 3.5.10. > To truly get forward with this one it appears to me that way more > developers are needed. Who then would have less or no time to work on > improving KDE 4. Doing stuff in your own is easy. Doing stuff coordinating with a whole distro, whithin ugly hacks and with a good ending quality, is not. BTW, I would rather advise people learn how to build their own packages before using and thus depending in this 3rd party repo, no only because security reasons, or because it is not built in the top of debian. This repo is not going to be there forever, for sure, sooner or later people maintaining it will get tired, and if you are planning to use KDE 3 forever... Just pointing about this to people mentioning this repo, nothing direclty to Martin here :) Ana -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100506171818.gb7...@ana.debian.net
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 2010-05-06, Mike Bird wrote: > My users and I pray that you keep KDE 3.5 (or Trinity) in Squeeze. Won't happen. sorry. I guess you will have as much success with this as you did for fedora ... I won't be blocking anyone trying to work on 3.5, but I do not plan to spend a minute on it myself. /Sune -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnhu5ug1.rvp.nos...@sshway.ssh.pusling.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
> Even with perfect packaging KDE SC 4 is slow and unreliable, Slow? Can you elaborate? I can help with that. Unreliable? In what way? > gimmick-rich but feature-poor. What feature is missing for you? I can help with that. > KDE SC 4 probably has no future and > certainly has no place in Debian STABLE. > Help me shape that future. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/i2k880dece01005061024v1f3c4914vd9eac1c2fff4d...@mail.gmail.com
Re: KDED4 blocking Weather Applets
On 2010-05-06, Dominik Schulz wrote: > I've confirmed with Wireshark/TCPdump that there is no network traffic at t= > hat=20 > time. As soon as I kill kded4 the weather applets startk working immedeatel= > y.=20 > Is there are another workaround than killing kded4 (since that messes up so= > me=20 > other things in KDE) or, even better, a fix available? qdbus org.kde.kded /modules/networkstatus setNetworkStatus "SolidNetwork" 4 - that tells kded to 'assume you are online, even if it to kde looks like you aren't' /Sune - thanks Pino. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnhu5uj4.rvp.nos...@sshway.ssh.pusling.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 06 May 2010 it was so written: > On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 07:41:23AM -0400, Curt Howland wrote: > > On Thursday 06 May 2010, Ana Guerrero was heard to say: > > > On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 03:17:43AM -0300, Jorge Gonçalves wrote: > > > > Maybe use dummy packages, or rename the packages so that KDE > > > > 3.5 could remain installed, and not be forced to upgrade to > > > > Kde4. > > > > > > No, there is not sane way and there is nobody interested on it. > > > > While the former is certainly true, the latter is demonstrably > > false. > > False? Yes, false. There are lots of people who are interested in having KDE3 continue, as opposed to being "forced to upgrade" to KDE4. > Who from the current maintainers have seen you showing > interest in maintaining KDE 3.5? Please demostrate it :-) I'll demonstrate, sure. "there is nobody interested on it" does not equal "there is no developers interested in working on it". If you had stated "from the current maintainers" in the first place, I would not have taken your statement as inclusive of all people, and you would not have then assumed that I mean developers. That there are no interested developers to do the work involved is self evident, since it is not occurring. Curt- - -- Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBS+L7yi9Y35yItIgBAQLY/Qf+O2KSbv/uQ9oO4EiWiJwKpgqQg+NRkbny ROqjjGpbxWpKbKaOzME6FvNCjLXwdHyxRDBtBwOylQXDmdH/FwRs1iBETs6rnXWi YxlvTL2XAy8ieD/8kIv30w0dGTaMx38967rzoG0QoBnQkN/7gBK/SwjmjOuavSqM BGIKS6q3y9XZ9DOfBA9XW6F0vCNVylg5nwBnH+DOlU8CnRStvhmCp0y7hjg6Eo0I WSr7ixVdSQLbagP0TeMStLCf8ltmx/az3mzUtIXukeIiAA+NnaWRFDTumYf2ZwuP N15uNOEeyA9R1+hxiZ1tIo24GCou83eSPpmm5n8vlzO/p4qRHgF9Yw== =dbne -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061326.34984.howl...@priss.com
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Thursday 06 May 2010 04:49:08 Martin Steigerwald wrote: > Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: > > On Wednesday 05 May 2010 17:58:09 Modestas Vainius wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 01:54:06 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. > > > wrote: > > > > I'm still using kmail/kontact/etc. (basically kdepim) from 4.3 > > > > since I have no desire to run yet another RDBMS on my system. (I > > > > already run PostgreSQL, and have a number of apps that use SQLite > > > > installed.) > > KMail doesn't use Akonadi at all in KDE 4.4. It might use Akonadi in KDE > 4.5. The only thing using Akonadi by default in KDE 4.4 is the new > KAddressBook. AFAIK. Not true. I installed KMail from Sid earlier this week. It refused to send mail by entering an infinite loop trying to connect to an Akonadi server that I was not running. KAddressBook and KOrganizer depend on Akonadi in KDE 4.3 and I believe they also did so in KDE 4.2. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Thursday 06 May 2010 04:59:35 Martin Steigerwald wrote: > Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.: > > Heck, just stop kmail from migrating. Korganizer and KAddressBook > > have required Akonadi since 4.2 or earlier. > > Again, AFAIK, kmail does not use Akonadi in KDE 4.4. Have you installed and tried it? I have. It does require Akonadi in KDE 4.4.3. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 01:26:34PM -0400, Curt Howland wrote: > On Thursday 06 May 2010 it was so written: > > On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 07:41:23AM -0400, Curt Howland wrote: > > > On Thursday 06 May 2010, Ana Guerrero was heard to say: > > > > On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 03:17:43AM -0300, Jorge Gonçalves wrote: > > > > > Maybe use dummy packages, or rename the packages so that KDE > > > > > 3.5 could remain installed, and not be forced to upgrade to > > > > > Kde4. > > > > > > > > No, there is not sane way and there is nobody interested on it. > > > > > > While the former is certainly true, the latter is demonstrably > > > false. > > > > False? > > Yes, false. There are lots of people who are interested in having KDE3 > continue, as opposed to being "forced to upgrade" to KDE4. > Ok, you read me wrong: nobody is interested in working on it. > > Who from the current maintainers have seen you showing > > interest in maintaining KDE 3.5? Please demostrate it :-) > > I'll demonstrate, sure. > > "there is nobody interested on it" does not equal "there is no > developers interested in working on it". > > If you had stated "from the current maintainers" in the first place, I > would not have taken your statement as inclusive of all people, and > you would not have then assumed that I mean developers. > > That there are no interested developers to do the work involved is > self evident, since it is not occurring. And since we said from the very beginning (more than 2 years) it was not going to happen. You have demostrated nothing here =) Ana -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100506173047.ga7...@pryan.ekaia.org
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On 2010-05-06 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: > Not true. I installed KMail from Sid earlier this week. It refused to > send mail by entering an infinite loop trying to connect to an Akonadi > server that I was not running. > > KAddressBook and KOrganizer depend on Akonadi in KDE 4.3 and I believe > they also did so in KDE 4.2. Does 3.11 of http://userbase.kde.org/Akonadi_4.4/Troubleshooting apply to you then? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061934.32824.didi.deb...@cknow.org
Re: Processes Run at Nice 19!
On Tuesday, 2010-05-04, David Baron wrote: > I still have not gotten to the root of this very annoying problem. > > In the earliest KDE4 versions, stuff started up at the normal default nice > of 0 (priority 20). I had a renice script to get all those akonadi daemons > niced out of the way so kde4 would be usable. > > One version (4.2.*) had stuff starting at 0, priority 40 (did not know > there was such an animal) but it played nicely. > > After that, it seems, everything of kde4's menus, desktop icons, anything > it spawns is being niced to 19. This renders kde4 unusable. So my renicer > script sets plasma-desktop, kmail and several of the core utilities back > to 0 so I can use it. But this workaround is no answer. > > I have no idea why this is going on. Any ideas? The question is what renices the processes in the first place. It could be something specific to your system, at least I have never seen this on any of my machines nor heard any local KDE users report this when meeting them. All user process running here are nice 0, prio 20 The only processes with a different nice value are udevd (-4), boinc (19), syslog-ng(5) and gpm(5) Maybe some system wide setting or some change in startkde or an extender script in $HOME/.kde/env? Cheers, Kevin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Thursday 06 May 2010 02:13:06 Diederik de Haas wrote: > I don't get what you're trying to accomplish. > > On 2010-05-05 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: > > In 4.4, kmail depends on mysql-server in order to send mail. (kmail -> > > Akonadi -> mysql-server). > > So you don't like the dependency to Akonadi? No. I believe in Akonadi as a technology and I don't have a problem with it. > Or don't you like the Akonadi dependency to mysql-server? Well, it's not > the full mysqld package anymore, but the dependency is to > mysql-server-core(-5.1) (see #548419). That's still yet another RDBMS. I already have plenty installed, thanks. > PostgreSQL is apparently > capable of providing the proper features and Tobias Koenig has made > Akonadi working with PostgreSQL since the end of last year > (http://tokoe-kde.blogspot.com/2009/12/akonadi- and-postgresql.html). That > patch was committed to trunk at that time, but apparently didn't make into > SC 4.4 (?). > So if you want to use PostgreSQL, your best bet would be to port/base that > patch on 4.4. Again, would Debian accept such a patch? Upstream intends that patch for KDE SC 4.5, and I don't believe they will apply it to the KDE SC 4.4.x line. I know the majority of the work has already been done. I can probably backport those patches to KDE SC 4.4 before the freeze date, but I don't want to start the work if there's no chance for it to get into Debian. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thursday 06 May 2010 19:13:46 Mike Bird wrote: > On Wed May 5 2010 23:17:43 Jorge Gonçalves wrote: > > I would like to suggest you some way so that the users keep on using > > the good old KDE 3.5 when they migrate to the upcoming Lenny. > > Debian KDE team, > > My users and I thank you from the bottom of our hearts for > maintaining KDE 3.5 in Lenny. > > My users and I pray that you keep KDE 3.5 (or Trinity) in Squeeze. > > Even with perfect packaging KDE SC 4 is slow and unreliable, > gimmick-rich but feature-poor. KDE SC 4 probably has no future and > certainly has no place in Debian STABLE. > > --Mike Bird Please do yourself and us/others the favor and read the whole discussion so far and you will get a/your answer, why your prayers won't be heard. Greetings, Steven Crooks signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 06 May 2010, Ana Guerrero was heard to say: > You have demostrated nothing here =) Very well. Curt- - -- Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUBS+L/8S9Y35yItIgBAQJOaQf/UUin82dRjEuCxjQ/0m8PJE5hDb+nfiB6 dXHddznb5KwK/+vvE0r279b2DpZCSgus+qp9Xpvslc359VE5ppm1nqzkcXEQvCna Teeclia62TfbEGwFiU0hnf0MyMn4Db11JITDtDhS/VjUt+IbVUwpTRDkDb35xYuH lpZb4Qu23EmJlPnR2cmSOh0U1tty/lqsh7QixQNy9XQsdJhB4aE0Fup/sr7V0H8N kQqrOKhLbdp7/d7jiARAeZgJuHVhU6i6h5YJN29TwyTl+6VPsPx744YvQrXywwDe zp/L38CIcoXUkCOvDpvXCfLD0cnqCXN4zfd9nAo8vASwGwP8lmayMA== =vtwu -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061344.17817.howl...@priss.com
TOra with Oracle support (was: Re: Kde 3.5 ...)
On 6 May 2010 14:06, deloptes wrote: > Dotan Cohen wrote: > >> >> Yes, KDE 4 seems to be much better for the average Joe. But that is >> the reason that power users suffer at the moment! A.Joe already has >> Gnome... >> >> > > Exactly! OK, I'll look forward to test this weekend. > Main issue for me is tora with oracle, but also a bunch of other apps that > I'm using. > Thanks anyway! Speaking of which... Have you managed to compile TOra with oracle support using dpkg-buildpackage? I used to be able to just by setting oracle's env variables. Something has changed, though, and now I get these messages after issuieng dpkg-buildpackage: -- Found Oracle: /usr/lib/oracle/11.1/client64/lib/libclntsh.so (ORACLE_HOME='/usr/lib/oracle/11.1/client64') -- Found XML Oracle: ORACLE_INCLUDES_XML-NOTFOUND ORACLE_LIBRARY_XML-NOTFOUND -- Oracle not found. -- Oracle: You can specify includes: -DORACLE_PATH_INCLUDES=/usr/include/oracle/10.2.0.3/client --currently found includes: ORACLE_INCLUDES-NOTFOUND -- Oracle: You can specify libs: -DORACLE_PATH_LIB=/usr/lib/oracle/10.2.0.3/client/lib --currently found libs: /usr/lib/oracle/11.1/client64/lib/libclntsh.so -- No Oracle OCI found. TOra will be build without Oracle support Note that it first stats that it has found Oracle in /usr/lib/oracle/11.1/client64, but then says that Oracle was not found. What do I have to do in order to compile it with Oracle support? I am using Oracle InstantClient 11.1 libs converted from rpm do deb with alien in a squeeze box. sqlplus works fine. Thanks in advance for any insight on this. Regards, Cassiano Leal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/t2h27310d2c1005061026m84666db3u93f96a6de5629...@mail.gmail.com
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Hello, On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 20:40:21 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: > > PostgreSQL is apparently > > capable of providing the proper features and Tobias Koenig has made > > Akonadi working with PostgreSQL since the end of last year > > (http://tokoe-kde.blogspot.com/2009/12/akonadi- and-postgresql.html). > > That patch was committed to trunk at that time, but apparently didn't > > make into SC 4.4 (?). > > > > So if you want to use PostgreSQL, your best bet would be to port/base > > that > > > > patch on 4.4. > > Again, would Debian accept such a patch? Upstream intends that patch for > KDE SC 4.5, and I don't believe they will apply it to the KDE SC 4.4.x > line. > > I know the majority of the work has already been done. I can probably > backport those patches to KDE SC 4.4 before the freeze date, but I don't > want to start the work if there's no chance for it to get into Debian. We are generally not interested in backporting random features, Debian is not ubuntu. So the answer is most likely no. However, whether to ship akonadi trunk/beta/final of the next version is another question which is still open. In my opinion, Akonadi itself is pretty mature so it might be doable. That's KDE integration which is lacking in quality. -- Modestas Vainius signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: TOra with Oracle support (was: Re: Kde 3.5 ...)
On 2010-05-06, Cassiano Leal wrote: > Speaking of which... Have you managed to compile TOra with oracle > support using dpkg-buildpackage? http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-kde-extras/2010-April/010913.html /Sune -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnhu6086.rvp.nos...@sshway.ssh.pusling.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu May 6 2010 10:24:08 Dotan Cohen wrote: > > Even with perfect packaging KDE SC 4 is slow and unreliable, > > Slow? Can you elaborate? I can help with that. > > Unreliable? In what way? Are you aware that KDE PIM developers noticed that the percentage of KMail users on KDE-PIM's own mailing list has dropped below 50%? Even KDE developers are fed up with KDE unreliability. Did you check my email's user-agent string? It's "KMail/1.9.9" - the last Debian STABLE KMail. How come you're not using KMail if it's so stable in KDE SC 4? Sune is not interested in working on KDE 3.5 but he's using slrn via gmane. I have great respect for Ana's work but even Ana is using Mutt. Have you ever actually tried converting normal office workers from KDE 3.5 to KDE SC 4? I have. Twice. Utter failure. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061054.17409.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu May 6 2010 10:24:03 Steven Crooks wrote: > Please do yourself and us/others the favor and read the whole discussion so > far and you will get a/your answer, why your prayers won't be heard. Thank you for that excellent advice. I had of course read the whole discussion before adding to it. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061056.17296.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 2010-05-06, Mike Bird wrote: > Sune is not interested in working on KDE 3.5 but he's using slrn via > gmane. for maillists available via gmane, I really prefer that. I have been using slrn for as much as possible even before kde 3.3 was uploaded to debian. I do use kmail for my my personal emails, and the maillist that I'm subscribed to that aren't gmane accessible. /Sune -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnhu616e.rvp.nos...@sshway.ssh.pusling.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu, May 06, 2010 at 10:54:17AM -0700, Mike Bird wrote: > I have great respect for Ana's work but even Ana is using Mutt. > This has nothing to do with KDE 4 or kdepim, I have been using mutt for more than 6 years now... Ana -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100506185806.ga9...@ana.debian.net
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Thursday 06 May 2010 10:50:52 Facundo Aguilera wrote: > El Miércoles 05 Mayo 2010 17:24:49 Ana Guerrero escribió: > > Following Qt 4.6.2, uploaded a couple of weeks ago, KDE 4.4.3, has > > finally found its way to unstable in the last 48 hours. > > Just for add a good comment, I'm testing 4.4.3 and it working very good!! > Thanks!! While I've already aired my complaints, I haven't yet chimed in here. Thank you! The packaging work is greatly appreciated. The uploads to Sid are quite timely and save me a lot of work. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On 6 May 2010 20:54, Mike Bird wrote: > On Thu May 6 2010 10:24:08 Dotan Cohen wrote: >> > Even with perfect packaging KDE SC 4 is slow and unreliable, >> >> Slow? Can you elaborate? I can help with that. >> >> Unreliable? In what way? > > Are you aware that KDE PIM developers noticed that the percentage of > KMail users on KDE-PIM's own mailing list has dropped below 50%? Even > KDE developers are fed up with KDE unreliability. > No, I am not aware of that. I also don't use Kmail. > Did you check my email's user-agent string? No. Do you customarily read the complete email headers of those whom with which you correspond? > It's "KMail/1.9.9" - the > last Debian STABLE KMail. How come you're not using KMail if it's so > stable in KDE SC 4? > I cannot use Kmail until two feature requests are implemented: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72926 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159251 Thunderbird has this implemented as an extension: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/594 > Sune is not interested in working on KDE 3.5 but he's using slrn via > gmane. > > I have great respect for Ana's work but even Ana is using Mutt. > > Have you ever actually tried converting normal office workers from > KDE 3.5 to KDE SC 4? I have. Twice. Utter failure. > I have done tens of KDE 4 installs, and filed or triaged over 1300 bugs at KDE. I have installed KDE-based systems for home users, students, university laboratories, a library, and some small home offices. Am I qualified enough for you to tell me what's wrong already? -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/p2o880dece01005061202xb6b00dbag1bc9731e28987...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 18:24, Richard Hartmann wrote: > For reference, while typing this email, my total CPU load is ~12% on > the KDE 3 box. On KDE 4, it would be around 20% -- I can get you > better numbers at home. great, now that I upgraded to 4.4.3, my base load is around 9% I will continue to monitor the situation, though. Richard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/w2s2d460de71005061202j67e3ee48qa5e4d86d74324...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thursday 06 May 2010 01:17:43 Jorge Gonçalves wrote: > Hello! > > First, thank you for the great distro that is Debian, one of the best. > > I would like to suggest you some way so that the users keep on using > the good old KDE 3.5 when they migrate to the upcoming Lenny. > > Maybe use dummy packages, or rename the packages so that KDE 3.5 could > remain installed, and not be forced to upgrade to Kde4. Add oldstable to your sources.list and pin the packages you want to keep. You'll get a while to hold on to KDE 3.5 after the Squeeze release. Of course, if the KDE SC that is released with Squeeze is the problem, it is unlikely that Squeeze+1 will be available before security support on Lenny is discontinued. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 19:54, Mike Bird wrote: > Are you aware that KDE PIM developers noticed that the percentage of > KMail users on KDE-PIM's own mailing list has dropped below 50%? Even > KDE developers are fed up with KDE unreliability. If you check my user string, I am using Gmail's interface in Iceweasel with It's All Text & GVim with ft=mail. That is due to the fact that nothing scales as well for GiB of mail like Gmail. Sad, but true. For private & work mail, I use KMail from KDE 3 & 4 plus pine. Dunno if the metric mail client is a very good one to use as mail is a medium many people used before ever getting in touch with KDE. It _is_ easy to get data for we all send mail with user agent strings by default, though. Richard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/n2o2d460de71005061225ke0c98c23j7ea76b787428e...@mail.gmail.com
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
Hello, On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 02:13:50 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: > > Debian packagers don't have that much time to spend on packaging (they > > are volunteers after all), and hardly they can do decisions about which > > particular branch is better. > > They have to package the last one which has > > > > been released, unless has been released very soon and there is no time > > for testing. > > Stable is going to be with those users for at least a year, probably more. > They deserve more than whatever upstream wants to throw at the wall this > week. Debian users deserve quality packaging of upstream software, good integration of it throughout the whole distribution and general assumption that it won't eat their kittens (yet data loss bugs happen). But whether upstream software meets users' needs is out of Debian scope. Just find another software/solution which does, develop it by yourself, pay somebody to develop it for you or ask kindly and wait till somebody else is motivated enough to do it. > > Also, is specially hard to decide which branch is better, because > > branch A can have application X in a great shape, and application Y in a > > bad one, while in branch B the case might be the opposite. And having to > > go back one whole release of the whole software compilation just because > > one app has one annoying dependency is a little bit overkill, isn't it? > > Just block the KDEPIM 4.4 apps from migrating to testing. The KDEPIM 4.3 > programs already work with the KDEBASE 4.4 libraries. > > Heck, just stop *kmail* from migrating. Korganizer and KAddressBook have > required Akonadi since 4.2 or earlier. Move on. kdepim 4.3 is gone. Given that KDE SC 4.5 might release with kdepim from 4.4 anyway extending kdepim 4.4 codebase lifetime to 1 year, beating dead horse (4.3) makes absolutely no sense. I recommend you to face reality here. > These responses are quite frustrating. I read Ana's post as "please make > sure KDE 4.4 is ready for stable". My post was "KDE 4.4 is inappropriate > for stable". All the replies have been "too bad, we are going to release > it anyway". Don't you see that you always put yourself in the front in your rationales? YOU run a dozen of DB servers, YOU don't want another one, YOU don't trust MySQL, YOU say KDE 4.4 is inappropriate for stable. Nothing objective and YOU assume that your truth is an ultimate one. Pet bugs are always RC to the reporter, but yet again, we need to face reality here. If YOU have so many problems with particular piece of software, look for better options or read the first part of this mail again. -- Modestas Vainius signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: KDE 4.4.3 in unstable
On Thursday 06 May 2010 12:47:12 Modestas Vainius wrote: > On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 20:40:21 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: > > > PostgreSQL is apparently > > > capable of providing the proper features and Tobias Koenig has made > > > Akonadi working with PostgreSQL since the end of last year > > > (http://tokoe-kde.blogspot.com/2009/12/akonadi- and-postgresql.html). > > > That patch was committed to trunk at that time, but apparently didn't > > > make into SC 4.4 (?). > > > > > > So if you want to use PostgreSQL, your best bet would be to port/base > > > that > > > > > > patch on 4.4. > > > > Again, would Debian accept such a patch? Upstream intends that patch for > > KDE SC 4.5, and I don't believe they will apply it to the KDE SC 4.4.x > > line. > > > > I know the majority of the work has already been done. I can probably > > backport those patches to KDE SC 4.4 before the freeze date, but I don't > > want to start the work if there's no chance for it to get into Debian. > > We are generally not interested in backporting random features, Debian is > not ubuntu. So the answer is most likely no. Good. I didn't want to do the work anyway. ;) > However, whether to ship akonadi trunk/beta/final of the next version is > another question which is still open. In my opinion, Akonadi itself is > pretty mature so it might be doable. I didn't complain well. *This* is the true crux of my complaint. I don't think stable users want an Akonadi that only supports one backend. If nothing else, it makes bugs harder to work around, and I find staying with stable generally requires working around a non-RC bug or two during its lifetime. Virtuoso, PostgreSQL, or SQLite -- any one of those as an option would satisfy me, and I can't really speak for others. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Hello, On ketvirtadienis 06 Gegužė 2010 20:54:17 Mike Bird wrote: > Are you aware that KDE PIM developers noticed that the percentage of > KMail users on KDE-PIM's own mailing list has dropped below 50%? Even > KDE developers are fed up with KDE unreliability. So what? People moved on. You can do the same if current situation does not suite you OR you can actually do something real to improve situation. Ranting isn't among that "something". > Did you check my email's user-agent string? It's "KMail/1.9.9" - the > last Debian STABLE KMail. How come you're not using KMail if it's so > stable in KDE SC 4? Seriously, attacks on personal preferences is the best you can do? To be honest, it's none of your business what everybody else is using and why. Personal preferences are highly subjective and they say really nothing about quality of other similar software in the market. By your logic, you should be using Windows because apparently it is the best OS in the world due to enormous PC market penetration (over 90%). > Sune is not interested in working on KDE 3.5 but he's using slrn via > gmane. > > I have great respect for Ana's work but even Ana is using Mutt. I tried to find a logic in this reasoning but utterly failed. If you are going to respect Ana's work less just because she is using mutt, I believe we have nothing to talk about. > Have you ever actually tried converting normal office workers from > KDE 3.5 to KDE SC 4? I have. Twice. Utter failure. Maybe. Yet what did you do to improve the situation? And maybe it was not just KDE SC 4 fault, was it? -- Modestas Vainius signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu May 6 2010 12:02:05 Dotan Cohen wrote: > Do you customarily read the complete email headers of those whom > with which you correspond? Email headers are not relevant to most discussions, therefore no. My point is that many KDE developers and packagers do not use KDE like real-world users, and therefore do not appreciate the concerns of real-world KDE users. The whole semantic desktop idea is a bad joke in the real MULTI-USER world. If semantics are to have any value they must evolve on the server from all the members of the workgroup, not an isolated user. The semantic desktop was fifty years out of date before the first line of code was written. It's sole achievement is draining laptop batteries. We've had more than two years of being told "KDE SC 4 is good enough". It is not. --Mike Bird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005061312.31796.mgb-deb...@yosemite.net
Re: Kde 3.5 ...
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 18:14, Dotan Cohen wrote: > System Settings -> Input and Output > RightClick -> New -> Global Shortcut -> Command It's called "Input Actions". But yes, this works. Still, the current way things are done are less than ideal. Thus: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=236617 Richard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kde-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/w2y2d460de71005061315h83c91b98zd136a27fe5433...@mail.gmail.com
