[no subject]

[John]

Hey there, I found a great retail site with all kinds of products. Home 
decor, office decor, travel, outdoors, kitchen, etc... Take a look around 
at http://www.merchandisewholesale.com  just click on the images of the 
product to enlarge it for a better view.  

Sincerely,
  John

No Subject

[John]

Hey there, I found a great retail site with all kinds of products. Home 
decor, office decor, travel, outdoors, kitchen, etc... Take a look around 
at http://www.merchandisewholesale.com  just click on the images of the 
product to enlarge it for a better view.  

Sincerely,
  John


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zezywyje

[John]

Would you need:Want generic rolexes kingkkongresullts.com


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cheap sluts

[John]

best wh0res list
www spellonme dot com

acquaints airproofs
humanities disassimilating
recast soir
syllogistic solicits


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Re: Bug#156407: ITP: free-java-sdk -- Complete Java SDK environmentconsising of free Java tools

[John Leuner]

> * kaffe and other GPL-licensed JVMs can only be used with GPL compatible
>   software (i.e. no Apache style licenses!). See
>   http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#IfInterpreterIsGPL
>   Not to mention that kaffe's classlib is GPL [1]

What exactly do you mean by this?

The interpreter can be GPL, but the software that the interpreted
program links against cannot. 

Obviously this includes the software provided by the class library.
I'm not sure if this includes software provided by the JVM.

It's also not clear to me what the difference is between compiling some
java code against a set of interfaces (whether they are actual java
interfaces, or just some java classes), and then running your program
with a GPL'ed implementation of said interfaces.

Are you violating the GPL in the first or second instance?

John Leuner




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Where is the j2se-common that java2 needs??

[John Foster]

Just what it says. I need to get j2se-common installed before I can have
Java 2 SDK on my toybox. Anyone know where it can be located??
Thanks!
-- 
John Foster


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Re: eclipse on woody

[John Lavin]

Hello-

I tried forwarding to Takashi, but recieved no response.  I'm attempting
to build eclipse under woody from his source packages.  I've gotten
trough a number of bugs but am still a bit short of a successful build.

Can anyone offer any pointers?

Thanks,
-john
-- 
John Lavin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   ,''`.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level   : :' :
  of thinking that created them." -Albert Einstein `. `' 
Fingerprint: B0AA 4A33 D43F BA67 E524  22F3 DA3B F8C8 2BA4 8C46  `-

jlavin said:
> Takashi,
> 
> I'm trying to build from your source package, but running into a snag.
> I'm back-building for woody since I'm not on sarge yet.  I have the
> below errors and am trying to resolve.
> 
> Any ideas? This is from a pdebuild.
> 
> > /tmp/buildd/eclipse-2.0.2/source-tree/plugins/platform-launcher
> > Buildfile: build.xml does not exist!
> > Build failed
> > Buildfile: build.xml does not exist!
> > Build failed
> Looked into this:  this directory doesn't have a build.xml.  Perhaps the
> build script is trying to build a directory that doesn't need to be
> built
> 
> > debian/build.sh: csh: command not found
> Hmm - there's a command "csh build.csh" a few times.  I can't locate a
> build.csh and looks like its choking here.  should this be build.sh?
> Recursive???
> 
> > cp: cannot stat `tmp/*.so': No such file or directory
> Probally should have my library at this point, but the build's not
> taking...
> 
> > make[1]: Entering directory `/tmp/buildd/eclipse-2.0.2/tmp'
> > gcc -fPIC -g -c -I/usr/lib/j2sdk1.3/include
> > -I/usr/lib/j2sdk1.3/include/linux core.c -o core.o
> > core.c: In function `getByteArray':
> > core.c:22: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast
> hmmm - well, its been a while since I've done c programming...
> 
> > gcc -g -shared -Wl,-soname,libcore.so -o libcore_2_0_5.so core.o -lc
> > make[1]: Leaving directory `/tmp/buildd/eclipse-2.0.2/tmp'
> > debian/build.sh: csh: command not found
> > make: *** [build-stamp] Error 127
> > pbuilder: Failed autobuilding of package
> >  -> unmounting /proc filesystem
> >  -> cleaning the build env
> 
> thanks,
> -john



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Re: eclipse on woody

[John Lavin]

Takashi Okamoto said:
> Sorry, not sooner reply. Build-Depend in control isn't complete cleary
> and it caused errors.
that is true.  also you had the package eclipse recursively dependant.

> Would you install csh?
I'll add csh to the build-depend and see if build gets farther.

> I recommend you to wait 2.1M5 package. It will be better than current
> package.
If for just the learning experience, I am going to continue trying.  I
seem to be close and want to see if I can get through to a built deb.
If I suceed, I will return the diff with the changes I needed to make.

Regards,
-john
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  of thinking that created them." -Albert Einstein `. `' 
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Re: eclipse on woody

[John Lavin]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> Looking very much forward to the eclipse package...

Quite a bit of learning in this experience, but I back-built Takashi's
packages to woody.  They install nicely, but give me a error finding
SAX.  I have SAX in my classpath or think I do.  From the workspace log:

!SESSION
--
!ENTRY org.eclipse.core.launcher 4 0 Feb 08, 2003 22:51:42.50
!MESSAGE Exception launching the Eclipse Platform:
!STACK
java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/xml/sax/SAXParseException


My classpath:
$ echo $CLASSPATH
/usr/lib/j2sdk1.3/lib/tools.jar:/usr/lib/j2sdk1.3/jre/lib/rt.jar:/usr/share/java/ant.jar:/usr/share/java/xerces.jar

And the file *does* exist:
$ ls -l /usr/share/java/xerces.jar
-rw-r--r--1 root root   758565 Sep  1  2001
/usr/share/java/xerces.jar

Am I missing something simple here?

Thanks,
-john
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  of thinking that created them." -Albert Einstein `. `' 
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Re: eclipse on woody

[John Lavin]

Takashi Okamoto said:
> Eclipse needs xerces 2 but above jar is xerces 1's.
> You don't need set classpath because eclipse include xerces at
> /usr/lib/eclipse/plugins/org.apache.xerces_4.0.7.
> 
> Xerces2 in woody is obsolete(2.0.1). You may need sid's 2.2.1.
Well - If this were my problem, would a binary version downloaded
directly to my local account run then or give me the same error?  I do
get a locally downloaded version to run off my home directory without a
SAXParser exception.

Looked into that directory for the binary and have actual jarfiles.
Just for kicks, I moved the soft links in
/usr/lib/eclipse/plugins/org.apache.xerces_4.0.7 and replaced with the
copies from the binary download.  Same error.

I'm not sure this is what's causing me trouble.

The only other thing that I can mention to help is that there is no
java2-common in stable.  When I pulled down and attempted to install the
testing version, it failed because a file exists in both that package in
my Blackdown j2sdk1.3.  I removed it from the Depends on
eclipse-platform to run without it.

Perhaps this is my problem.

Regards,
-john
-- 
John Lavin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.wayreth.net  ,''`.
Q: How many marketing people does it take to change a lightbulb? A:: :' :
 I'll have to get back to you on that. `. `'
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Re: Debianized Eclipse 2.1M5

[John Lavin]

Takashi Okamoto said:
> I uploaded  initial eclipse 2.1M4 package though it may very ugly
> now. Please check here:
Takashi-

Moved on to this package- trying to once again back-build to woody with
some upgraded sid java packages (xerces in particular).  When trying to
build lucene, I get the following error:

dh_testdir
mkdir -p /tmp/buildd/lucene-1.2/source-tree/lucene-1.2-src/bin/docs/api
mkdir -p /tmp/buildd/lucene-1.2/source-tree/lucene-1.2-src/docs
cp /usr/local/javacc2.1/bin/lib/JavaCC.zip
/tmp/buildd/lucene-1.2/source-tree/lucene-1.2-src/lib
cp: cannot stat `/usr/local/javacc2.1/bin/lib/JavaCC.zip': No such file
or directory
make: *** [build-stamp] Error 1
pbuilder: Failed autobuilding of package


I'm not sure where this file is supposed to be coming from.  Is this a
file that should be built by lucene, but is not?

Thanks,
-john
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You will reach the highest possible point in your business or  : :' :
 profession.   `. `'
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Re: Debianized Eclipse 2.1M5

[John Lavin]

Takashi Okamoto said:
Takashi-

> Lucene is depend on javacc to build package, so you have to install
> JavaCC into /usr/local/javacc2.1.

Since I'm running with a chroot, I took a few extra moments to make a
small package out of javacc.  I added it to the Build-Depends and put it
out on a local mirror I have.

I now get past the zip file, but fail in lucene's build.xml.
Apparently, its not finding the zipfile for some reason:

cp /usr/share/java/JavaCC.zip
/tmp/buildd/lucene-1.2/source-tree/lucene-1.2-src/lib
cd /tmp/buildd/lucene-1.2/source-tree/lucene-1.2-src && ant package
Buildfile: build.xml

init:
[mkdir] Created dir:
/tmp/buildd/lucene-1.2/source-tree/lucene-1.2-src/bin/classes
[mkdir] Created dir:
/tmp/buildd/lucene-1.2/source-tree/lucene-1.2-src/bin/src

javacc_check:
 [echo]
  ##
  JavaCC not found.
  JavaCC Home: .
  JavaCC Zip: ./lib/JavaCC.zip

Have you seen this before?  I believe the zipfile to be there.

All this because I won't upgrade from woody.  ;-)

Thanks,
-john

ps- I had to also add ant to the Build-Depends to get to this point as
well.  You may want to update the control file with that.  Just a
suggestion.
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Tomorrow, you can be anywhere. : :' :
   `. `'
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GNU Classpath 0.05

[John Leuner]

I have uploaded version 0.05 of the GNU Classpath java libraries.

This package is useful for:

1) Users compiling java programs without depending on non-free libraries
from Sun.
2) Debian maintainers compiling java packages without depending on
non-free libraries from Sun.
3) Using free JVMs to run Java programs. Currently the kissme JVM is
available in Debian. (SableVM has it's own classpath package).

Also now included is the package classpath-doc

This contains javadoc documentation generated from the Classpath source
code. We would appreciate it if users could look at the documentation
and report any errors/missing parts to the Classpath developers.

Classpath aims to be compatible with the 1.2 libraries shipped by Sun.
Currently most of this is implemented, but there are still missing
parts.


-- 
John Leuner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: GNU Classpath 0.05

[John Leuner]

> | Classpath aims to be compatible with the 1.2 libraries shipped by
> | Sun.  Currently most of this is implemented, but there are still
> | missing parts.
> 
> Are java.awt.* and javax.swing.* implemented?

No, these packages are not complete. You could probably compile programs
against the Classpath AWT code, but not run them. I haven't checked how
close our code matches the java.awt public API.

Swing is not implemented either.

> What about a lib-gnujaxp-java package? If anyone interrested, I can
> contact Nic Ferrier, one of the project admin and try to package
> gnujaxp.

Yeah, this would be cool. Perhaps you could just make modifications to
the classpath deb package to also produce a jaxp .deb?

John Leuner



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Re: Installing eclipse

[John Lavin]

rhindes kroeituratek said:
> this is for sid i suppose. is there an apt-getable backport for woody 
> available, too?
Not to my knowledge.

I've tried to backport to woody for multiple versions and have met with
no luck so far.  I got an old version: 2.0.2 to build a deb for woody,
but can't get past some runtime errors.

I've not been able to build any RC's or M5 versions to date, even with
some newer testing java packages as I've heard that the latest eclipse
RCs will not work with woody.

Once some of the libraries recently moved to testing stew there for a
bit more, I'm just going to move to testing and see if I meet with any
better results...

Regards,
-john
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Fingerprint: B0AA 4A33 D43F BA67 E524  22F3 DA3B F8C8 2BA4 8C46: :' :
 The most insidious of the many kinds of power is the power to define  `. `'
happiness.   --Earl Shorris  `-



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Compiling java debian packages with free tools

[John Leuner]

I have been observing the various discussions about changing java policy
etc ..

I feel that despite whatever decisions we make about free and non-free
VMs and tools etc, we should firstly pay attention to simply compiling
our software with free tools and against free libraries or free APIs.

For example there is a debian package called jikes-classpath which can
be used to compile programs against the GNU Classpath libraries. Every
debian java packager should attempt to compile his package with this
tool (or other free compilers).

In cases where the compilation fails because the API is incorrect,
incomplete or missing you should report a bug to the Classpath/relevant 
project. You could also post a message to this mailing list saying
something like "package X doesn't compile because of an incomplete
implementation of Y".

It is our duty as a community to let each other know where free software
is lacking and specifically what needs to be fixed.

Much of the time this work can be trivial because implementing an API to
compile against is much much easier than implementing the functionality.

I haven't discussed the question of whether it is correct for a program
that can be compiled with free software but not run with free software
to go into main. Whatever the outcome of that argument, I still feel it
is very important to focus on being able to compile with free tools and
getting a larger community involved in identifying and fixing problems.

-- 
John Leuner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Let Jikes (finally) go into testing on its own...

[John Leuner]

> I just need a yes from both Ean (Kaffe) and John (Classpath). I can upload
> a new version of jikes tomorrow if everyone agrees.

I can add the jikes-classpath script to the classpath package.

It wasn't clear from the discussions exactly what version changes are
required

What versioning changes should I make for the new classpath package?

John Leuner

> 
> Since jikes doesn't not have any platform specific parts in it, it is
> quite certain that jikes will not prevent JVM from getting into testing
> if these wrappers go into JVM.
> 
> 
> - Adam
> 
> PS. Furthermore, since these wrappers are NOT and should not be dependent
> on version of the JVM (or kaffe), they should be maintained such that
> they work with ALL the versions of the JVM. This should be simple enough :)
-- 
John Leuner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Let Jikes (finally) go into testing on its own...

[John Leuner]

classpath 0.07-2 has been accepted.

Please let me know if there any problems with it or jikes-classpath

John Leuner


On Wed, 2004-01-21 at 00:33, Ben Burton wrote:
> > Would it work if, say, classpath built a new package 
> > 'jikes-with-classpath' (whatever the name, but a new one), which 
> > 'Replaces: jikes-classpath' and 'Conflicts: jikes-classpath' ? Classpath 
> > could then keep its version number, and upgrades should still happen 
> > automatically.
> 
> No they wouldn't - AIUI you'd just sit on your stale jikes-classpath
> package until you made a conscious decision to install jikes-for-classpath
> (at which point the old jikes-classpath would be uninstalled).
> 
> With the epoch solution, the upgrade is completely automatic.
> 
> Ben.
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John Leuner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Servlet 2.4

[John Patterson]

Hi, I am trying to use the Jetty unstable package which has a dependancy on
libservlet2.3-java.  I get this Exception thrown during configuration:

java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: javax/servlet/ServletRequestListener

This is a Servlet 2.4 class which is not found.  Is there a servlet 2.4 debian
package?

Thanks,

John. 


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Jetty config depends on missing ant.jar

[John Patterson]

Hi, 

I have hit another problem with the Jetty package.  It depends on
/usr/share/java/ant.jar which does not exist on my installation (unstable). 
There is only an ant-1.6.jar.  Creating a symlink to this fixed the problem.

Also, shouldn't there be a /usr/share/java/servlet.jar symlink?

John.


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java-package dependancies

[John Patterson]

Hi,

I am running a Debian stable system with a few packages from unstable thrown in
for good measure.  I am trying to run java-package but it complains bails out
with this message:

Detected product:
Java(TM) Software Development Kit (J2SDK)
Standard Edition, Version 1.4.2+07
Sun Microsystems(TM), Inc.
Is this correct [Y/n]: y

Checking free diskspace:/usr/bin/make-jpkg: /dev/fd/62: No such file or 
directory

Aborted (dummy).

Removing temporary directory: done

I have tried installing a .deb that I built previously on another machine using
java-package 0.17 but it complains that it depends on sun-j2sdk1.4debian which
is no longer in the debian respoistories.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

John.



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Re: java-package dependancies

[John Patterson]

Cheers,

This is the output from df:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# df --block-size=1M /tmp
Filesystem   1M-blocks  Used Available Use% Mounted on
tmpfs   61 060   0% /tmp

I edited the common.sh file and removed the offending free space check.  The
package seemed to build OK and I have installed it.  However, the following
messages were printed while running make-jpkg:

dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: could not find path for libasound.so.2
dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: could not find path for libgcc_s.so.1
dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: could not find any packages for  (libasound.so.2)
dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: unable to find dependency information for shared
library libasound (soname 2, path , dependency field Depends)
dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: could not find any packages for  (libgcc_s.so.1)
dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: unable to find dependency information for shared
library libgcc_s (soname 1, path , dependency field Depends)
dh_gencontrol
dh_md5sums
dh_builddeb

Whats up with that???

John.


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Re: kaffe orphaned? (thought from outside..)

[John Foster]

I agree with Seth on this matter, but I wish to point out that according
to the GPL that you both have the right to take a body of code [with the
original authors express permission] and incorporate it into a compleate
new body of work, with a new name. In short, if you can't agree to work
together, then agree to work separately i.e. develop your on code under
the GPL and distribute it yourself as a new piece of software with a
different name and its own policies. You must follow the liscensing
procedures, but I believe that it is OK to do this if the original
software is GPL.

http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html#SEC3

Best wishes to all of you!
-- 
John Foster
AdVance-Computing Systems
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ# 19460173

Re: JFORK: Or a reasonable response to the Sun SCSL

[John Foster]

I have been watching this thread for some time and feel that some
reality is in order for anyone interested in this subject.

My 2 cents worth:

1. Sun and all other commercial ventures exist solely for the purpose of
making money. They will sometimes do some things that seem to be for the
"good of mankind", but those things generally have some "lucrative"
aspect to them (read SCSL).

2. The aspect of making money is not "a bad thing" in itself. The
acquisition of profit by using deceptive tactics is "a bad thing".
3. The owner of any original patent/copyright license has the right to
alter that patent at will. For instance if Sun decides to not make
StarOffice available under the SCSL they do have the right, because they
bought it, to make StarOffice a commercial package. They can do so at
will. 

4. Technically/legally Sun or Microsoft, or AOL and  many others, could
alter the terms of the current license structures so that "open source"
"free" software ceases to exist. If Linas Torvalds decided that the next
kernel version of Linux was not to be GPL software, he has the right to
do it. Does that shock you? If it does then you need to read up on the
U.S. patent and trademark guidelines as they apply to intellectual
property, especially software.

5. There is a huge movement in Europe to keep software patents out of
the legal system. I do not think they will be successful. However,
"THE ACTIONS TAKEN BY ALL INTERESTED PEOPLE WITH REGARD TO SUN'S SCSL
AND THE APPLICATION OF IT'S GUIDELINES WILL SET A PRECEDENT FOR YEARS TO
COME"

6. In my opinion "the best interests of free open source software will
be served by pushing forward with development of the GNU HURD system and
the implementation of a HURD Virtual Machine language that has all the
capabilities of Java as it is now, but is more likely to remain free.

7. If Debian and all the other Linux communities continue to put forth
free software that is portable to all hardware systems they represent a
serious threat to all commercial software. 

8. A HURD VM is possible due to the nature of its message passing system
and would be the most reasonable course to pursue for the development of
portable software. This course would basically make Java obsolete, and
would allow the use of many types of inexpensive hardware solutions to
replace Sun's expensive servers and workstations. This is what they are
concerned about.

All my best wishes to the people who assist in the "Free Software"
movement, and especially to those of you that do the actual development
of applications.
-- 
John Foster
AdVance-Computing Systems
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ# 19460173

Re: JFORK: Or a reasonable response to the Sun SCSL

[John Foster]

Seth R Arnold wrote:
> Java is being taught in many schools, mine included, as the default
> language. Our profs do not mind if we use other languages, but all example
> code, all example everything, the default IDE in the labs, EVERYTHING, is
> java. That makes for a few years of CS students that know nothing but Java.
> (Depressing..)

Thats OK, the schools are almost always about 2 years behind the real
world. The real purpose of schooling is to teach you the skill of
thinking in an effective manner, not to teach facts.
 
> Java has spread to Mac, to os/2 (I hope), win32, win3.1, free unix,
> commercial unix, practically every platform.
> 
> I have a hard time believing that one GNU Hurd VM module will suddenly cause
> all that momentum to go away. 

That's what Bill Gates said about the little Linux kernel that a CS
student gave to the world.:-)

(Especially, if Ean has it right -- building a
> VM for Hurd, if built from the java 2.0 specs, is going to fall under the
> Derivitive Works section of SCSL. And be not free.)

I did not mean to imply using their specs. Just the idea, then create
our own specs. If the free software community builds a really better set
of communication tools, then anyone in a responsible position will want
to use it. I propose looking to Apache, Perl, and a host of GNU tools,
GCC, SED, EGC,  etc as examples.

> 
> Some very nice points, but I doubt the hurd will be able to serve as the
> magic bullet.
--
No magic bullet, but maybe just the right size pebble for a small guy
with a slingshot.

-- 
John Foster
AdVance-Computing Systems
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ# 19460173

Re: JFORK: Or a reasonable response to the Sun SCSL

[John Foster]

bernd kreimeier wrote:
> Java the language (sans all the added classes) might well be
> implemented using a different VM. The school does not care
> whether it is a JVM using 8bit bytecode, or some entirely
> different VM using expanding opcodes or 16bit bytecode or...
> 
> Java the language can also be compiled to native code.
> 
> Your point seems depressingly correct though with respect to
> all the additional APIs that might be used in schools and
> colleges (I can see it already - realtime graphics with
> Java3D - depressing indeed).
> 
> > > "free" software ceases to exist. If Linas Torvalds decided that the next
> > > kernel version of Linux was not to be GPL software, he has the right to
> > > do it.
> 
> It is Linus, and this is bollocks.
---
Sorry about the spelling.

 Linus can place all his
> personally written code under a different license at any time,
> he can't do that for code written by others. One effect
> of the GPL/LGPL license is that contributions from others
> infect your work, taking away your freedom to change the
> licensing for the whole.
-
That is my point exactly. I reiterate "the next kernel version". This
has already been done by a number of folks that decided to change the
license of the software. By not allowing any additions of code by
contributors in the next version issued, any originator of code can then
implement a new license. 

> 
> This was exemplified when Mesa switched from LGPL to BSD
> to accomodate XFree86 requirements. Brian Paul needed
> permission from every contributor.
> 
> > > Does that shock you?
> 
> Quite frankly, it does.

Remember I started this chain of thought by stating that I do not
disagree with making a profit on software, only by doing so via
deceptive trade practices, or bait and switch scenarios.
-- 
John Foster
AdVance-Computing Systems
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ# 19460173

Re: JFORK: Or a reasonable response to the Sun SCSL

[John Foster]

Seth R Arnold wrote:
> 
> Well, if Ean's interpretation is correct, a different VM will STILL fall
> under the SCSL license, if they used the Java 2.x specs to produce it.
-
Why take a chance on anyone's interpretation, especially attorneys or
the courts? Just setup the specs for the HURD VM in a fashion that meets
or exceeds those required for the system to operate. The people who
currently develop java applications, classes, servlets, etc. could then
easily port their stuff to the new more robust and faster system. I can
assure you that if we build it, and build it better they will come!!!
-- 
John Foster
AdVance-Computing Systems
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ# 19460173

Re: JFORK: Or a reasonable response to the Sun SCSL

[John Foster]

Tim Wilkinson wrote:
  The real issue here is not Java so much as the perception of
> the SCSL and right now I don't know how you effectively change that - I
> boycott it but how do you presuade the 250,000 people who downloaded Star
> Office to do the same.
---
By simply building better software, and we already know that the Debian
developers can do that!!! BTW, I use StarOffice and will continue to do
so until I find something better. I expect that to arrive this fall from
Corel. As I said, I do not mind paying for software. I just really hate
not having any choices ( Microsoft reference)!
-- 
John Foster
AdVance-Computing Systems
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ# 19460173

Re: JFORK: Or a reasonable response to the Sun SCSL

[John Foster]

bernd kreimeier wrote:

> On his own code minus all past contributions. Big F*** Deal.
> 
> What's your point? Linus can't take the past contributions
> with him (Copyright Alan Cox, Donald Becker, ...). He
> can't take back what he has released before. Your point
> is essentially that he can stop to contribute to the
> existing code, and that he can re-use his own contributions
> to the existing kernel under a different license in a
> different context. That'll leave him with what?

Making NO claims for the value of such, it leaves All of his own code,
to do with as he pleases, under any license that he pleases. 

> 
> I am not a big fan of the GPL, but it works. The more
> cooperative an effort, the less probability for a single
> individual or minority to hijack the combined results.
> 
> The only ways to retain that amount of control are to require
> all outside contributions to be put in the public domain,
> to have the contributors waive their rights explicitly
> in you favor, or to never accept contributions. Even then,
> you could not undo your earlier releases, so you'd still
> have to outpace the open branch based on your last free
> release.
> 
> What's the problem?

None, I agree with your analysis.

> That people should make themselves familiar with Copyright
> law, followed by a quite bogus statement on what that very
> law combined with current kernel licensing would allow for.
> 
> The hypothetical "Evil Linus" case you have construed is near
> meaningless. 
-
The entire purpose of my "hypothetical" case was to portray an EXTREME
posibility that would elicit visions of the worst scenerio that I could
think of for the Linux community. I certainaly did not mean to imply
that I think that is likely to happen, as I hold Linus  in high esteem,
both as an individual with humanitarian ideals, and as a skilled system
developer.

>The SCSL is a serious, imminent danger. 
---
I think we All agree on that. The question that initially was posed is
what do we do about it. I am offering a suggestion for a possible
longterm solution. I fully realize that this is simply an idea, and
maybe a usless one. My goal here is to get folks interested in doing
something to solve the problem. That takes momentum, and most of the
people on the main Debian list are not even aware of these issues. I am
not a java developer and have not claimed to be one. I do have a serious
interest in seeing the "java" ideal of "write once, run everywhere"
being part of the free software movement, I think that this will be
necessary for ANY open source system if it is to survive.

>Mixing
> these up is just FUD on the Linux end, and irrelevant on the
> Java end. Hope I have been a bit more successful this time
> in explaining what I find so annoying here.
--
I will conceed that it was an extreme scenerio, and that was
intentional, as stated above. I do not mean to annoy you or anyone else.
I am however, aware that if I throw "my opinions" out there for the
world to view, there will probably be someone that disagrees with it:-)
That said, I hope to keep the interest of people focussed on the real
problem, the SCSL, since we both agree that it is a REAL BAD THING.
-- 
John Foster
AdVance-Computing Systems
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ# 19460173

Why no JDK for Alpha?

[John Goerzen]

Hi,

ftp.alphalinux.org has a version of JDK that runs on Alpha.  (Snag the 
RH6.0 stuff in the 1.1.8 area).  Can we please get this into our
jdk1.1 package?  It's annoying always having to use /usr/local for
java stuff on alpha.

Thanks,
John

-- 
John Goerzen   Linux, Unix consulting & programming   [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
Developer, Debian GNU/Linux (Free powerful OS upgrade)   www.debian.org |
+
The 117,818,932nd prime number is 2,421,626,341.

Question about Update site behaviour

[John Foster]

I have been working on a new installation today and to my dismay the
sources.list file that I have been using for months, is suddenly doing
strange things. I have made no adjustments to it but when I ran apt-get
update and dselect update I got hits on all the sites listed, but it
showed 76% of the files then froze up and would not finish the update. I
tried this on 2 different systems, including this, my stable productions
system with the same results. Any suggestions, pointers or news flashes
that I missed??? Is something up at debian.org???
-- 
AdVance-Computing Systems

We sell fine quality servers and workstations.
We specialize in multiprocessor units. 
We install Debian Linux at no extra charge!

John Foster
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
ICQ# 19460173

JBuilder 3.0 wont install

[John Stevenson]

Hello,
I have been trying to install JBuilder 3.0 from Inprise but
keep getting the same error message:


Warining !!  Not enough disk space

The Installation requires 16.57 MB of free disk space but
only 0.0MB are available in .

---

I have over 200MB free and set the permissions on the
directories rwx for everyone (a bit overkill).  I can only
assume that there is something wrong with either

*The Sun jdk 122
* The JBuilder Install

I am running potato debian distribution, last updated
december 14th, with sun jdk 122 .

Anyone had the same problem??
I am going to try get a responce from Inprise also

John.

Status of Free Java Environment?

[John Goerzen]

Hi,

What is the big picture of the current status of a completely
DFSG-Free Java environment?  Do we have tools that work on non-i386
platforms?  Do we have tools that work with Java 1.2?  With JFC/Swing?
What DFSG-free tools are there that we have for:

 * Java compiler (.java to .class)
 * JVM (with or without JIT)
 * Compiler (to native executable)
 * Debugger (jdb equiv)
 * appletviewer tool
 * jar tool
 * javadoc tool

Etc.  Basically, the components of the JDK.  Thoughts?

-- 
John Goerzen   Linux, Unix consulting & programming   [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
Developer, Debian GNU/Linux (Free powerful OS upgrade)   www.debian.org |
+
  via Remote

Re: Status of Free Java Environment?

[John Goerzen]

Mark Wielaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> >  * Java compiler (.java to .class)
> There is the Kopi Java Compiler  written
> in Java. And the super fast Jikes written in C++
> .

Hmm I was under the impression that Jikes was 1) non-free, 2) not
supporting 1.2, 3) not supporting non-i386 platforms.

Re: Status of Free Java Environment?

[John Goerzen]

Mark Wielaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> >  * Compiler (to native executable)
> GCC, the Gnu Compiler Collection comes with GCJ, the Gnu Compiler for Java

Also, not sure where it gets its class libraries from, but it doesn't
seem to even fully implement Java 1.1! (No AWT!)

Re: Status of Free Java Environment?

[John Goerzen]

Occasionally one is glad to be wrong, and this is just such a case :-)

I'll give it a try!

Alex Yukhimets <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Wed, Dec 15, 1999 at 08:30:27PM -0600, John Goerzen wrote:
> > Hmm I was under the impression that Jikes was 1) non-free, 2) not
> > supporting 1.2, 3) not supporting non-i386 platforms.
> 
> 1) It is free :0
> 
> 2) It very much supports 1.2. I use it at work for 1.2 (including Swing)
> development with GREAT success.
> 
> 3) I am not sure about that, but I don't think there is anything substantially
> non-portable in it. It is just a C++ source after all, and it produces java 
> bytecode, not native code.
> 
> Alex Y.
> -- 
>_ 
>  _( )_
> ( (o___   +---+
>  |  _ 7   |Alexander Yukhimets|
>   \(")|   http://pages.nyu.edu/~aqy6633/  |
>   / \ \   +---+
> 
> 
> --  
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

-- 
John Goerzen   Linux, Unix consulting & programming   [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
Developer, Debian GNU/Linux (Free powerful OS upgrade)   www.debian.org |
+
  via Remote

Re: Status of Free Java Environment?

[John Goerzen]

Per Bothner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> First, libgcj is not gcc.  Secondly, Cygnus needs to be able to
> release code under a *less* restrictive license to its embedded
> customers.  That is one reason it keeps the copyright.  I (and
> others) think the best solution is to have libgcj under a "modified
> GPL", like Cygnus does for libstdcc+, the standard C++ library,
> as well as libgcc (which is *not* libc)..

According to the /usr/doc/libstdc++2.9-glibc2.1/copyright file:

  This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it
  under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the
  Free Software Foundation; either version 2, or (at your option) any
  later version.

Where is the modification?

> 
> > Why haven't Classpath and libgcj merged?
> 
> I think Cygnus could be pursuaded to release libgcj under the same
> license as libstdc++, and maybe be donate the copyright to the FSF.
> However, convincing Cygnus management would be much easier if
> Cygnus got something in exchange, like some major contributions.
> Specifically, if FSF were willing to release Classpath under the
> same license as libfcc/libstdc++, then I think merging libgcj
> and Classpath is possible, and would be a win-win.
> 
> > P.S. I saw a posting of you on Slashdot in which you said that there was 
> > only
> > one (O'Reilly?) book on Swing (spec) details. Which book is that?
> 
> The O'Reilly book is called "Java Swing".  It actually has a 1998
> copyright and predates the final Swing release, so it still uses the
> com.sun.java.swing package.  But it's the only one that I've been able to find
> goes into any depth about the text stuff.
> -- 
>   --Per Bothner
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.bothner.com/~per/
> 
> 
> --  
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

-- 
John Goerzen   Linux, Unix consulting & programming   [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
Developer, Debian GNU/Linux (Free powerful OS upgrade)   www.debian.org |
+
  via Remote

Re: Status of Free Java Environment?

[John Goerzen]

Per Bothner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> * Java compiler (.java to .class)
> 
> Gcj can also compile .java to .class.  It currently does not handle
> inner classes, but that is being actively worked on.  It is written in
> C, so is reasonably fast.  It generates reasonable good bytecode.  And
> of course being able to use the same compiler for .java to .class and
> .java to native has its advantages.

I've been having trouble getting it to compile even the simplest of
programs (System.out.println); I'll send another message to the list
this evening with the details.

> Note there are at least three implementations of the standard Java
> classes:  Kaffe, classpath, and libgcj.  This means some unfortunate
> duplicate work.  One problem is different licenses.  That does not
> preclude someone donating the same or similar code to all of them,
> but it does preclude whole-sale merging.

Bah, it would be nice if all of the above could be GPL or LGPL; why
are they not?

-- John

Re: Archive of this thread? [was Re: Status of Free Java Environment?]

[John Goerzen]

Douglas Bates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> archives at the Debian web site were last updated on 19:25 GMT Wed Dec
> 15.
> 
> Could someone tell me how frequently the archives are updated.

Daily, I believe.

-- John

gcj doesn't work at all

[John Goerzen]

OK, I have this code:


public class Test {
   public static void main(String[] args) {
  System.out.println("Hi.");
   }
}

Saved in Test.java of course.  Works fine with javac/java.  Watch gcj:

erwin ~$ gcj --main=Test Test.java
/tmp/ccabvlAqmain.o: In function `main':
/tmp/ccglnVjDmain.i(.text+0x24): undefined reference to 
`_Jv_Compiler_Properties'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

I am stumped.

This is on Alpha.

Off-topic NEWS Release: I found this interesting!

[John Foster]

This was sent to me via a posting from another list that I subscribe to.
I found it interesting and feel that it is worth a read, if you are
interested in promoting free/open source software.

http://www.latimes.com/news/front/2204/t11344.html 


-- 
AdVance-Computing Systems

We sell fine quality servers and workstations.
We specialize in multiprocessor units. 
We install Debian Linux at no extra charge!

John Foster
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
ICQ# 19460173

Netscape 4.72 installed OK Composer still crashing!

[John Foster]

I finally got a copy of Netscape Communicator 4.72 Linux2.2 installed
and running. Composer is still crashing on my Potato box. I did as
suggested and disabled the java functions and the problem seems to go
away. Is this really a Java problem in Potato or is Netscape crapped
out. I do not have this problem on my stable Slink systems, and the
problem only appeared with Netscape 4.7, when I upgraded to Potato. Any
Ideas!! Is there something I need to do with Java??
-- 
AdVance-Computing Systems

We sell fine quality servers and workstations.
We specialize in multiprocessor units. 
We install Debian Linux at no extra charge!

John Foster
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ICQ# 19460173

Re: Netscape 4.72 installed OK Composer still crashing!

[John Foster]

Peter Cordes wrote:
>  On redhat 6.0, I think someone found out that installing the 100dpi fonts
> _and_ the 75dpi fonts is necessary to make netscape java work.  (maybe
> you've got them both on your slink box, hence the difference?) Since rh6.0
> uses glibc 2.1 and kernel 2.2.x, like potato, this bit of magic might work
> for your potato system.

Nope. I already done that. Thanks for the suggestions.
-- 
AdVance-Computing Systems

We sell fine quality servers and workstations.
We specialize in multiprocessor units. 
We install Debian Linux at no extra charge!

John Foster
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ICQ# 19460173

Re: Java development on debian ppc

[John Leuner]

> > That means that presenting Kaffe as a free alternative to the
> > Sun/Blackdown JDK on PowerPC is a false lead -- 
> 
> I would rephrase it: if there is no Free Java solution (which means a real 
> and 
> workable one, on all platforms, and without segmentation faults at every 
> opportunity), then we should stop working with Java and start encouraging 
> people to switch to another language.

Java has such massive support, how could you just drop it like that?

There are other free Java projects on the go, the Japhar VM is undergoing
development and I am author of the kissme VM. My work is still x86 only,
but as the JVM gets more mature I see no reason why it would be difficult
to port to PPC. 

John Leuner

Re: Java development on debian ppc

[John Leuner]

> On Saturday 1 July 2000, at 1 h 18, 
> the keyboard of John Leuner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > > I would rephrase it: if there is no Free Java solution 
> ...
> > > then we should stop working with Java and start encouraging 
> > > people to switch to another language.
> > 
> > Java has such massive support, how could you just drop it like that?
> 
> Do not be afraid of drastic decisions: Cobol has a much more massive support 
> than Java and there is no support for it in Debian (and few people complain).

They don't complain because they use something else. As a systems software
writer you can't choose what to provide, you have to provide what people
are using and want.

Why reinvent Java? That would take even *longer* to support in free
software. 
 
> Microsoft has a massive support, too and we still pretend our operating 
> system 
> is better.

I didn't say Java was better than anything else.
 
> I see no reason why we should use Java just because Sun decreted we should.

You're free to use whatever you want, but Java is a standard
(whether dictated by Sun or not).

John

Re: Java development on debian ppc

[John Leuner]

> > As a systems software
> > writer you can't choose what to provide, you have to provide what people
> > are using and want.
> 
> I am sorry but this is plainly wrong. Debian is running on volunteer time 
> and, 
> yes, we choose what to provide, and we choose to concentrate on free software.

GNU/Linux is a UNIX clone. UNIX wasn't free. 

John Leuner

Re: A suggestion to list core classes

[John Leuner]

> > >From Edouard G. Parmelan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, one of the Kaffe upstream 
> > >developers,
> > a proposal to the Java policy:
> > 
> > Each java-virtual-machine comes with a /etc/java-core-classes (using 
> > alternatives to manage it). This file contains the list of jars and 
> > directories with core classes.
> > 
> > For Kaffe, here is an example:
> > 
> > # Kaffe Core Classes
> > /usr/share/kaffe/Klasses.jar
> > /usr/share/kaffe/comm.jar
> > /usr/share/kaffe/pjava.jar
> > /usr/share/kaffe/servlet.jar
> > /usr/share/kaffe/rmi.jar
> > #/usr/share/kaffe/tools.jar
> > #/usr/share/kaffe/microsoft.jar
> > #/usr/share/kaffe/kjc.jar
> > 
> > And may be, to help Jikes:
> > 
> > # Debian policy for Java
> > /usr/share/java/repository
> > 
> > Advice?

It may be obvious, but there could be cases where one JVM uses different
versions of a class library (or different class libraries).

So just make sure to cater for versioned class libs. 

/usr/share/classpath0.00/rt.jar
/usr/share/classpath  -> symlinked to default / latest classpath ?
/usr/share/classpath_with_sable_mods0.01/rt.jar


John Leuner

Re: ITP enhydra

[John Leuner]

> > it acceptable to use the upstream binary tarball as the .orig for a Debian
> > source package, as it is architecture-independent?  Or must it compile from 
> > the
> > Java source?
> 
> If the package is in 'non-free', you don't even need the sources. IMHO (but 
> IANAL), for a package to get in 'main', you HAVE TO be able to compile it 
> from 
> the sources.
> 
> For programs written in C, it goes without saying, but it seems some Debian 
> packagers forget this, because upstream Java packages usually come with the 
> binary, a binary which is often very difficult to regenerate (which reminds 
> me 
> the time of Ultrix, where Digital accepted to ship the sources, but they were 
> almost impossible to compile, if you wanted to reboot your Vax with a patched 
> version).

It's interesting that you if can run a Java "binary" you'll also be able
to build the sources very easily. This is because Java is always linked at
run time, so the build-time and run-time dependencies are the same.

John Leuner

Re: ITP enhydra

[John Leuner]

> > It's interesting that you if can run a Java "binary" you'll also be able
> > to build the sources very easily. This is because Java is always linked at
> > run time, so the build-time and run-time dependencies are the same.
> 
> This is clearly wrong:
> 
> - your compiler may fail with some Java constructs (a common problem with 
> gcj),
> - your compiler may do checks "just in case" for classes you will not use.
> 
> Also, most Java programs come without any sort of Makefile (or Ant file or 
> anything like that). The upstream author says it's because "you don't need 
> to" 
> recompile (which shows their contempt for free software). Finding the 
> dependencies, in order to write a Makefile (or debian/rules), while always 
> possible, is not obvious and is a problem with several Java programs.

You're right, of course you need makefiles and a compiler similar to the
one used by the original author. But most java compilers are similar
(jikes, javac, kjc) and gcj is probably not 'complete'.

I was just trying to make the point that you can't statically link a Java
program and then distribute it (at least in .class format). Which means
that if you can run the program, you have all the libraries available to
compile it. (But not necessarily a working compiler, or the correct build
scripts / tools, as you pointed out).

I can see the case arising where the compiler looks for a class that you
don't actually use, but then strictly speaking it is not a dependency,
only a token dependency.

John Leuner

Java GUI builder using XML

[John Leuner]

Does anyone know of a free Java GUI builder that uses XML to specify what
widgets go where?

I'm looking for a tool that either generates java code to be compiled, or
dynamically creates the GUI at runtime.

I'm sure there is at least one such non-free tool, but I haven't found a
free one.

John Leuner

building java packages

[John Leuner]

I have started building some java .debs and immediately run into some
problems:

1. what do I depend on to have a 'javac' installed ?
2. when I want to compile something with a line like:
javac -classpath /some/dir:/some/other/dir some_java_files

this won't work because the classpath also needs to include the class
libraries. These will change depending on what VM is installed, so how do
I know where they are?

3. similarly, what do I depend on for a 'jar' tool? I'm thinking that
fastjar may be best?

4. The current scheme where library .jars go into
/usr/share/java/[repository], doesn't seem to take into account
versioning. There is also no mention of versioning in the Java policy for
/usr/share/java/repository files.

Just like .so shared libraries it is very important that libraries
(and programs) using a common namespace use versions to prevent breakages
when things change.

John Leuner

Re: building java packages

[John Leuner]

> > I have started building some java .debs and immediately run into some
> > problems:
> > 
> > 1. what do I depend on to have a 'javac' installed ?
> 
> java-compiler
> (currently:
> jdk1.1-dev 1.1.8v1-3
> ibm-jdk1.1-installer 1.1.8-3
> jikes 1.10-6
> java-compiler-dummy 0.2
> guavac 1.2-2
> gcj 1:2.95.2-20)

assuming jdk1.1-dev is the ibm jdk:

a) are we allowed to distribute this?
b) it's not free

If I choose to use jikes, I need some class libraries installed. I'm
thinking of packaging classpath-0.01.
 
> > 2. when I want to compile something with a line like:
> > javac -classpath /some/dir:/some/other/dir some_java_files
> > 
> > this won't work because the classpath also needs to include the class
> > libraries. These will change depending on what VM is installed, so how do
> > I know where they are?
> 
> I think there is a funny syntax for this; maybe:
> 
> javac -classpath :/some/dir

Looking at the jikes package, it doesn't seem to do this. As far as I can
tell, there is no wrapper script, jikes itself is in usr/bin
 
> (leading colon)  But I'm not sure.  I've never actually seen it work.
> 
> > 3. similarly, what do I depend on for a 'jar' tool? I'm thinking that
> > fastjar may be best?
> 
> I don't think there is a virtual package for this; the JDKs tend to supply 
> jar.
> Since you'll need a VM installed anyway, you can just depend on that, and if
> another jar is installed (via alternatives), it will be used automatically.

but will it work? I don't want to depend on a non-free jdk when there is a
free tool which will work.

John Leuner

Re: Bug#156407: ITP: free-java-sdk -- Complete Java SDK environment consising of free Java tools

[John Leuner]

> * kaffe and other GPL-licensed JVMs can only be used with GPL compatible
>   software (i.e. no Apache style licenses!). See
>   http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#IfInterpreterIsGPL
>   Not to mention that kaffe's classlib is GPL [1]

What exactly do you mean by this?

The interpreter can be GPL, but the software that the interpreted
program links against cannot. 

Obviously this includes the software provided by the class library.
I'm not sure if this includes software provided by the JVM.

It's also not clear to me what the difference is between compiling some
java code against a set of interfaces (whether they are actual java
interfaces, or just some java classes), and then running your program
with a GPL'ed implementation of said interfaces.

Are you violating the GPL in the first or second instance?

John Leuner

Where is the j2se-common that java2 needs??

[John Foster]

Just what it says. I need to get j2se-common installed before I can have
Java 2 SDK on my toybox. Anyone know where it can be located??
Thanks!
-- 
John Foster

Openjdk and Gradle Compatibility

[John Kim]

Hi Debian maintainers!

I'm a casual user of the current testing version of the Debian distribution
and I've run into a slight problem. I'm trying to use gradle as a build
system but the version offered from the apt package manager doesn't work
with openjdk version 11. I was on buster and switched to testing thinking
that the gradle package found on there would be new enough that it would be
compatible with openjdk 11, but it is unfortunately not. I then considered
adding an alternative openjdk that could be compatible, but openjdk 11 is
the lowest version offered if I'm not mistaken. Right now I don't want to
download gradle and set it up from their website since it is recommended to
rely on the package manager as much as possible. Therefore, this might seem
like a weird request, because I really don't know anything about rolling
out newer versions of packages on for package managers, but I was wondering
something could be done to add a newer version of gradle? If it is not
possible at this time I understand I'll just proceed with downloading it
from online and I give my thanks anyways.

Thanks,
John

Bug#961603: RFP: verapdf -- first complete open source PDF/A validator

[John Scott]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

* Package name: verapdf
  Version : 1.16.1
  Upstream Author : Open Preservation Foundation
* URL : https://openpreservation.org/products/verapdf/
* License : GPL 3+ and MPL 2.0+
  Programming Lang: Java
  Description : first complete open source PDF/A validator

 veraPDF is the first complete open source PDF/A validator, covering all
 parts of the PDF/A standards. It comprises four components:
  • An implementation checker, which validates all parts and
conformance levels of the PDF/A specifications
  • A policy checker, which allows users to implement additional custom
checks to enforce institutional policy beyond the PDF/A specifications
  • A reporter, which processes the results, producing both human-readable
and machine-parsable reports
  • A metadata fixer, which repairs metadata in files based on conformance
with the standard
 .
 The software is accompanied by a comprehensive atomic test corpus, covering
 each clause in the PDF/A specifications.

I do not use VeraPDF yet, but think it looks very interesting. Its
description is most vocal about PDF/A, but the most recent releases
have added some support for checking PDF/UA's accessibility requirements,
so far PDF tagging in particular.

Given the scarcity of FLOSS for reading, let alone verifying, accessible
PDFs, VeraPDF is likely to play an important role this way. Its emphasis
on verifying practical usability seems strong.

It supports two backends, an in-house one and PDFBox; and also both
CLI and GUI utilities.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

iHUEARYIAB0WIQT287WtmxUhmhucNnhyvHFIwKstpwUCXs0tHAAKCRByvHFIwKst
p/6VAQD5AMZvc3tHF3GB97TbKHWZ+XQfpeiDXYTDocK71HowDwD/dMyzUNw8E4sO
qwnvTTrxaShoSY/PxEAftvvlj4f0BwY=
=jAD9
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Bug#961815: RFP: vnu -- The Nu HTML Checker

[John Scott]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Control: block -1 by 721624 723028

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

* Package name: vnu
  Version : 20.3.16
  Upstream Author : Michael[tm] Smith 
* URL : https://validator.github.io,
https://validator.w3.org/nu/about.html
* License : MIT/Expat
  Programming Lang: Java
  Description : the Nu HTML Checker

The Nu Html Checker (v.Nu) helps you catch unintended mistakes in your
HTML, CSS, and SVG. It enables you to batch-check documents from the
command line and from other scripts/apps, and to deploy your own
instance of the checker as a service (like validator.w3.org/nu). Its
source code is available, as are instructions on how to build, test,
and run the code. 

v.Nu is the modern successor to the antiquated w3c-markup-validator
package. In addition to running on the Web via CGI like at
https://validator.w3.org/nu/, but it also provides a command-line
utility to check files.

May need https://github.com/shapesecurity/salvation, a library
to validate Content Security Policy (CSP). A sweep of v.Nu's apparent
dependencies suggests most others are packaged or now blocking.

v.Nu has already enjoyed good longevity from W3C and Mozilla developers
and is the most optimal replacement for w3c-markup-validator which is
orphaned (#739088) and supports only HTML4.

I don't foresee myself having time to pursue packaging this, but maybe
in the semi-distant future I will be able to take it up.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

iHUEARYIAB0WIQT287WtmxUhmhucNnhyvHFIwKstpwUCXtEvPAAKCRByvHFIwKst
p5PSAQC7UTc8n3zS/PZdOcWxE+uPr7NpsrLV9GpaJQ2eukqYVgEA3zp14giNPJG4
fnc/WAU0IAEac/sbqDjWqW83jLt5Tgw=
=/Yg5
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Java development on debian ppc

[John Leuner]

> > That means that presenting Kaffe as a free alternative to the
> > Sun/Blackdown JDK on PowerPC is a false lead -- 
> 
> I would rephrase it: if there is no Free Java solution (which means a real and 
> workable one, on all platforms, and without segmentation faults at every 
> opportunity), then we should stop working with Java and start encouraging 
> people to switch to another language.

Java has such massive support, how could you just drop it like that?

There are other free Java projects on the go, the Japhar VM is undergoing
development and I am author of the kissme VM. My work is still x86 only,
but as the JVM gets more mature I see no reason why it would be difficult
to port to PPC. 

John Leuner


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Re: Java development on debian ppc

[John Leuner]

> On Saturday 1 July 2000, at 1 h 18, 
> the keyboard of John Leuner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > > I would rephrase it: if there is no Free Java solution 
> ...
> > > then we should stop working with Java and start encouraging 
> > > people to switch to another language.
> > 
> > Java has such massive support, how could you just drop it like that?
> 
> Do not be afraid of drastic decisions: Cobol has a much more massive support 
> than Java and there is no support for it in Debian (and few people complain).

They don't complain because they use something else. As a systems software
writer you can't choose what to provide, you have to provide what people
are using and want.

Why reinvent Java? That would take even *longer* to support in free
software. 
 
> Microsoft has a massive support, too and we still pretend our operating system 
> is better.

I didn't say Java was better than anything else.
 
> I see no reason why we should use Java just because Sun decreted we should.

You're free to use whatever you want, but Java is a standard
(whether dictated by Sun or not).

John


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Re: Java development on debian ppc

[John Leuner]

> > As a systems software
> > writer you can't choose what to provide, you have to provide what people
> > are using and want.
> 
> I am sorry but this is plainly wrong. Debian is running on volunteer time and, 
> yes, we choose what to provide, and we choose to concentrate on free software.

GNU/Linux is a UNIX clone. UNIX wasn't free. 

John Leuner



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Re: A suggestion to list core classes

[John Leuner]

> > >From Edouard G. Parmelan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, one of the Kaffe upstream developers,
> > a proposal to the Java policy:
> > 
> > Each java-virtual-machine comes with a /etc/java-core-classes (using 
> > alternatives to manage it). This file contains the list of jars and 
> > directories with core classes.
> > 
> > For Kaffe, here is an example:
> > 
> > # Kaffe Core Classes
> > /usr/share/kaffe/Klasses.jar
> > /usr/share/kaffe/comm.jar
> > /usr/share/kaffe/pjava.jar
> > /usr/share/kaffe/servlet.jar
> > /usr/share/kaffe/rmi.jar
> > #/usr/share/kaffe/tools.jar
> > #/usr/share/kaffe/microsoft.jar
> > #/usr/share/kaffe/kjc.jar
> > 
> > And may be, to help Jikes:
> > 
> > # Debian policy for Java
> > /usr/share/java/repository
> > 
> > Advice?

It may be obvious, but there could be cases where one JVM uses different
versions of a class library (or different class libraries).

So just make sure to cater for versioned class libs. 

/usr/share/classpath0.00/rt.jar
/usr/share/classpath  -> symlinked to default / latest classpath ?
/usr/share/classpath_with_sable_mods0.01/rt.jar


John Leuner


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Re: ITP enhydra

[John Leuner]

> > it acceptable to use the upstream binary tarball as the .orig for a Debian
> > source package, as it is architecture-independent?  Or must it compile from the
> > Java source?
> 
> If the package is in 'non-free', you don't even need the sources. IMHO (but 
> IANAL), for a package to get in 'main', you HAVE TO be able to compile it from 
> the sources.
> 
> For programs written in C, it goes without saying, but it seems some Debian 
> packagers forget this, because upstream Java packages usually come with the 
> binary, a binary which is often very difficult to regenerate (which reminds me 
> the time of Ultrix, where Digital accepted to ship the sources, but they were 
> almost impossible to compile, if you wanted to reboot your Vax with a patched 
> version).

It's interesting that you if can run a Java "binary" you'll also be able
to build the sources very easily. This is because Java is always linked at
run time, so the build-time and run-time dependencies are the same.

John Leuner


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Re: ITP enhydra

[John Leuner]

> > It's interesting that you if can run a Java "binary" you'll also be able
> > to build the sources very easily. This is because Java is always linked at
> > run time, so the build-time and run-time dependencies are the same.
> 
> This is clearly wrong:
> 
> - your compiler may fail with some Java constructs (a common problem with gcj),
> - your compiler may do checks "just in case" for classes you will not use.
> 
> Also, most Java programs come without any sort of Makefile (or Ant file or 
> anything like that). The upstream author says it's because "you don't need to" 
> recompile (which shows their contempt for free software). Finding the 
> dependencies, in order to write a Makefile (or debian/rules), while always 
> possible, is not obvious and is a problem with several Java programs.

You're right, of course you need makefiles and a compiler similar to the
one used by the original author. But most java compilers are similar
(jikes, javac, kjc) and gcj is probably not 'complete'.

I was just trying to make the point that you can't statically link a Java
program and then distribute it (at least in .class format). Which means
that if you can run the program, you have all the libraries available to
compile it. (But not necessarily a working compiler, or the correct build
scripts / tools, as you pointed out).

I can see the case arising where the compiler looks for a class that you
don't actually use, but then strictly speaking it is not a dependency,
only a token dependency.

John Leuner



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Java GUI builder using XML

[John Leuner]

Does anyone know of a free Java GUI builder that uses XML to specify what
widgets go where?

I'm looking for a tool that either generates java code to be compiled, or
dynamically creates the GUI at runtime.

I'm sure there is at least one such non-free tool, but I haven't found a
free one.

John Leuner


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building java packages

[John Leuner]

I have started building some java .debs and immediately run into some
problems:

1. what do I depend on to have a 'javac' installed ?
2. when I want to compile something with a line like:
javac -classpath /some/dir:/some/other/dir some_java_files

this won't work because the classpath also needs to include the class
libraries. These will change depending on what VM is installed, so how do
I know where they are?

3. similarly, what do I depend on for a 'jar' tool? I'm thinking that
fastjar may be best?

4. The current scheme where library .jars go into
/usr/share/java/[repository], doesn't seem to take into account
versioning. There is also no mention of versioning in the Java policy for
/usr/share/java/repository files.

Just like .so shared libraries it is very important that libraries
(and programs) using a common namespace use versions to prevent breakages
when things change.

John Leuner


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Re: building java packages

[John Leuner]

> > I have started building some java .debs and immediately run into some
> > problems:
> > 
> > 1. what do I depend on to have a 'javac' installed ?
> 
> java-compiler
> (currently:
> jdk1.1-dev 1.1.8v1-3
> ibm-jdk1.1-installer 1.1.8-3
> jikes 1.10-6
> java-compiler-dummy 0.2
> guavac 1.2-2
> gcj 1:2.95.2-20)

assuming jdk1.1-dev is the ibm jdk:

a) are we allowed to distribute this?
b) it's not free

If I choose to use jikes, I need some class libraries installed. I'm
thinking of packaging classpath-0.01.
 
> > 2. when I want to compile something with a line like:
> > javac -classpath /some/dir:/some/other/dir some_java_files
> > 
> > this won't work because the classpath also needs to include the class
> > libraries. These will change depending on what VM is installed, so how do
> > I know where they are?
> 
> I think there is a funny syntax for this; maybe:
> 
> javac -classpath :/some/dir

Looking at the jikes package, it doesn't seem to do this. As far as I can
tell, there is no wrapper script, jikes itself is in usr/bin
 
> (leading colon)  But I'm not sure.  I've never actually seen it work.
> 
> > 3. similarly, what do I depend on for a 'jar' tool? I'm thinking that
> > fastjar may be best?
> 
> I don't think there is a virtual package for this; the JDKs tend to supply jar.
> Since you'll need a VM installed anyway, you can just depend on that, and if
> another jar is installed (via alternatives), it will be used automatically.

but will it work? I don't want to depend on a non-free jdk when there is a
free tool which will work.

John Leuner


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Re: eclipse on woody

[John Lavin]

Hello-

I tried forwarding to Takashi, but recieved no response.  I'm attempting
to build eclipse under woody from his source packages.  I've gotten
trough a number of bugs but am still a bit short of a successful build.

Can anyone offer any pointers?

Thanks,
-john
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jlavin said:
> Takashi,
> 
> I'm trying to build from your source package, but running into a snag.
> I'm back-building for woody since I'm not on sarge yet.  I have the
> below errors and am trying to resolve.
> 
> Any ideas? This is from a pdebuild.
> 
> > /tmp/buildd/eclipse-2.0.2/source-tree/plugins/platform-launcher
> > Buildfile: build.xml does not exist!
> > Build failed
> > Buildfile: build.xml does not exist!
> > Build failed
> Looked into this:  this directory doesn't have a build.xml.  Perhaps the
> build script is trying to build a directory that doesn't need to be
> built
> 
> > debian/build.sh: csh: command not found
> Hmm - there's a command "csh build.csh" a few times.  I can't locate a
> build.csh and looks like its choking here.  should this be build.sh?
> Recursive???
> 
> > cp: cannot stat `tmp/*.so': No such file or directory
> Probally should have my library at this point, but the build's not
> taking...
> 
> > make[1]: Entering directory `/tmp/buildd/eclipse-2.0.2/tmp'
> > gcc -fPIC -g -c -I/usr/lib/j2sdk1.3/include
> > -I/usr/lib/j2sdk1.3/include/linux core.c -o core.o
> > core.c: In function `getByteArray':
> > core.c:22: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast
> hmmm - well, its been a while since I've done c programming...
> 
> > gcc -g -shared -Wl,-soname,libcore.so -o libcore_2_0_5.so core.o -lc
> > make[1]: Leaving directory `/tmp/buildd/eclipse-2.0.2/tmp'
> > debian/build.sh: csh: command not found
> > make: *** [build-stamp] Error 127
> > pbuilder: Failed autobuilding of package
> >  -> unmounting /proc filesystem
> >  -> cleaning the build env
> 
> thanks,
> -john


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Re: eclipse on woody

[John Lavin]

Takashi Okamoto said:
> Sorry, not sooner reply. Build-Depend in control isn't complete cleary
> and it caused errors.
that is true.  also you had the package eclipse recursively dependant.

> Would you install csh?
I'll add csh to the build-depend and see if build gets farther.

> I recommend you to wait 2.1M5 package. It will be better than current
> package.
If for just the learning experience, I am going to continue trying.  I
seem to be close and want to see if I can get through to a built deb.
If I suceed, I will return the diff with the changes I needed to make.

Regards,
-john
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Re: eclipse on woody

[John Lavin]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> Looking very much forward to the eclipse package...

Quite a bit of learning in this experience, but I back-built Takashi's
packages to woody.  They install nicely, but give me a error finding
SAX.  I have SAX in my classpath or think I do.  From the workspace log:

!SESSION
--
!ENTRY org.eclipse.core.launcher 4 0 Feb 08, 2003 22:51:42.50
!MESSAGE Exception launching the Eclipse Platform:
!STACK
java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/xml/sax/SAXParseException


My classpath:
$ echo $CLASSPATH
/usr/lib/j2sdk1.3/lib/tools.jar:/usr/lib/j2sdk1.3/jre/lib/rt.jar:/usr/share/java/ant.jar:/usr/share/java/xerces.jar

And the file *does* exist:
$ ls -l /usr/share/java/xerces.jar
-rw-r--r--1 root root   758565 Sep  1  2001
/usr/share/java/xerces.jar

Am I missing something simple here?

Thanks,
-john
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Re: eclipse on woody

[John Lavin]

Takashi Okamoto said:
> Eclipse needs xerces 2 but above jar is xerces 1's.
> You don't need set classpath because eclipse include xerces at
> /usr/lib/eclipse/plugins/org.apache.xerces_4.0.7.
> 
> Xerces2 in woody is obsolete(2.0.1). You may need sid's 2.2.1.
Well - If this were my problem, would a binary version downloaded
directly to my local account run then or give me the same error?  I do
get a locally downloaded version to run off my home directory without a
SAXParser exception.

Looked into that directory for the binary and have actual jarfiles.
Just for kicks, I moved the soft links in
/usr/lib/eclipse/plugins/org.apache.xerces_4.0.7 and replaced with the
copies from the binary download.  Same error.

I'm not sure this is what's causing me trouble.

The only other thing that I can mention to help is that there is no
java2-common in stable.  When I pulled down and attempted to install the
testing version, it failed because a file exists in both that package in
my Blackdown j2sdk1.3.  I removed it from the Depends on
eclipse-platform to run without it.

Perhaps this is my problem.

Regards,
-john
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Re: Debianized Eclipse 2.1M5

[John Lavin]

Takashi Okamoto said:
> I uploaded  initial eclipse 2.1M4 package though it may very ugly
> now. Please check here:
Takashi-

Moved on to this package- trying to once again back-build to woody with
some upgraded sid java packages (xerces in particular).  When trying to
build lucene, I get the following error:

dh_testdir
mkdir -p /tmp/buildd/lucene-1.2/source-tree/lucene-1.2-src/bin/docs/api
mkdir -p /tmp/buildd/lucene-1.2/source-tree/lucene-1.2-src/docs
cp /usr/local/javacc2.1/bin/lib/JavaCC.zip
/tmp/buildd/lucene-1.2/source-tree/lucene-1.2-src/lib
cp: cannot stat `/usr/local/javacc2.1/bin/lib/JavaCC.zip': No such file
or directory
make: *** [build-stamp] Error 1
pbuilder: Failed autobuilding of package


I'm not sure where this file is supposed to be coming from.  Is this a
file that should be built by lucene, but is not?

Thanks,
-john
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Re: Debianized Eclipse 2.1M5

[John Lavin]

Takashi Okamoto said:
Takashi-

> Lucene is depend on javacc to build package, so you have to install
> JavaCC into /usr/local/javacc2.1.

Since I'm running with a chroot, I took a few extra moments to make a
small package out of javacc.  I added it to the Build-Depends and put it
out on a local mirror I have.

I now get past the zip file, but fail in lucene's build.xml.
Apparently, its not finding the zipfile for some reason:

cp /usr/share/java/JavaCC.zip
/tmp/buildd/lucene-1.2/source-tree/lucene-1.2-src/lib
cd /tmp/buildd/lucene-1.2/source-tree/lucene-1.2-src && ant package
Buildfile: build.xml

init:
[mkdir] Created dir:
/tmp/buildd/lucene-1.2/source-tree/lucene-1.2-src/bin/classes
[mkdir] Created dir:
/tmp/buildd/lucene-1.2/source-tree/lucene-1.2-src/bin/src

javacc_check:
 [echo]
  ##
  JavaCC not found.
  JavaCC Home: .
  JavaCC Zip: ./lib/JavaCC.zip

Have you seen this before?  I believe the zipfile to be there.

All this because I won't upgrade from woody.  ;-)

Thanks,
-john

ps- I had to also add ant to the Build-Depends to get to this point as
well.  You may want to update the control file with that.  Just a
suggestion.
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GNU Classpath 0.05

[John Leuner]

I have uploaded version 0.05 of the GNU Classpath java libraries.

This package is useful for:

1) Users compiling java programs without depending on non-free libraries
from Sun.
2) Debian maintainers compiling java packages without depending on
non-free libraries from Sun.
3) Using free JVMs to run Java programs. Currently the kissme JVM is
available in Debian. (SableVM has it's own classpath package).

Also now included is the package classpath-doc

This contains javadoc documentation generated from the Classpath source
code. We would appreciate it if users could look at the documentation
and report any errors/missing parts to the Classpath developers.

Classpath aims to be compatible with the 1.2 libraries shipped by Sun.
Currently most of this is implemented, but there are still missing
parts.


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Re: GNU Classpath 0.05

[John Leuner]

> | Classpath aims to be compatible with the 1.2 libraries shipped by
> | Sun.  Currently most of this is implemented, but there are still
> | missing parts.
> 
> Are java.awt.* and javax.swing.* implemented?

No, these packages are not complete. You could probably compile programs
against the Classpath AWT code, but not run them. I haven't checked how
close our code matches the java.awt public API.

Swing is not implemented either.

> What about a lib-gnujaxp-java package? If anyone interrested, I can
> contact Nic Ferrier, one of the project admin and try to package
> gnujaxp.

Yeah, this would be cool. Perhaps you could just make modifications to
the classpath deb package to also produce a jaxp .deb?

John Leuner

Re: Installing eclipse

[John Lavin]

rhindes kroeituratek said:
> this is for sid i suppose. is there an apt-getable backport for woody 
> available, too?
Not to my knowledge.

I've tried to backport to woody for multiple versions and have met with
no luck so far.  I got an old version: 2.0.2 to build a deb for woody,
but can't get past some runtime errors.

I've not been able to build any RC's or M5 versions to date, even with
some newer testing java packages as I've heard that the latest eclipse
RCs will not work with woody.

Once some of the libraries recently moved to testing stew there for a
bit more, I'm just going to move to testing and see if I meet with any
better results...

Regards,
-john
-- 
John Lavin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.wayreth.net  ,''`.
Fingerprint: B0AA 4A33 D43F BA67 E524  22F3 DA3B F8C8 2BA4 8C46: :' :
 The most insidious of the many kinds of power is the power to define  `. `'
happiness.   --Earl Shorris  `-



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Re: Installing eclipse

[John Lavin]

Jan Schulz said:
> That is likely due to the requirements on native gtk libs, which
> changed between 2.0 and 2.1. I have a gnome2.2 backport in my 
> sources.list and I could compile and run eclipse just fine.
I added the gnome 2.2 backport line from apt-get.org, and still have two
errors:

E: Package j2sdk1.4 has no installation candidate

This one should be irrelevant since I have a sdk1.3

E: Build-Depends dependency on eclipse cannot be satisfied because the
package kdelibs4-dev cannot be found

Another backport to woody issue since I only see this in unstable.

Hmm - I was planning on moving to testing fairly soon and I was hoping
that by moving, I would be able to knock out some of these back-port
issues.  Seems I won't knock them all out.

Not too big a deal since I can build eclipse from source just fine.

Regards,
-john
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Fingerprint: B0AA 4A33 D43F BA67 E524  22F3 DA3B F8C8 2BA4 8C46: :' :
I think nighttime is dark so you can imagine your fears with less  `. `'
distraction.   -- Calvin `-



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Re: Installing eclipse

[John Lavin]

Jan Schulz said:
> Search for for blackdown packages. I have made good experiences with
> them.
I have a j2sdk1.3 available and I thought the eclipse package could have
either.  Hmm.  But I don't seem to have:
# apt-cache show java2-runtime
#

> ktown.kde.org/~nolden/kde/
From the site:

A good portion of these packages were made during a contract work by
credativ (http://www.credativ.de) and cannot be given away anymore
publically until all pending contracting work is finished and we can
release them again.

You wouldn't happen to have the deb lying around would you?  ;-)

Regards,
-john
-- 
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Reality continues to ruin my life. -- Calvin   `. `'
 `-


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Add some package from 'classpath'

[John Leuner]

On Tue, 2003-04-15 at 08:51, Arnaud Vandyck wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Maybe you've seen I fill some ITP to get jta and jdbc in Debian. I did
> package them but it's non-free stuff. After some discussion on the
> classpath and classpathx-discuss lists, I learnt that these classes
> were in classpath! But it's not usable for me as is.

Why are the classes not useable ... ?

> The proposal is to have more package from classpath. IMHO the hack
> would be trivial and I'd be glad to help.

> With this proposal, we could have these packages in Debian main:
> 
> - libgnujta-java (java transaction api)
> - libgnujdbc-stdext-java (jdbc standard extensions)
> - libswing-java (YES! a free swing implementation)

So you propose that the these new packages will be generated from the
classpath release?

The first two are just APIs (am I right?), and the second one is all the
swing code.

I didn't think that classpath had anything close to a complete swing
implementation. Do you just want the swing classes to be able to compile
other packages against the swing api?

> I think if we can do that, some libraries can leave contrib to main!
> :-)
> 
> It's my first proposal so I do not know where we go from here? A vote?
> John what do you think?

I don't think we need a vote, if anyone has objections or better
suggestions I'm sure they will tell us.

-- 
John Leuner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Add some package from 'classpath'

[John Leuner]

> > Because it's not compatible with the java-policy. The classes are not
> > in a jar file and they are not in /usr/share/java. So people should
> > put in their classpath /usr/share/classpath/glibj.zip... with all the
> > classes, not only the jta, jdbc-ext or swing.
> I agree - these should be split into the separate jar files so that e.g.
> the swing part can be used by jvms, without using the rest of classpath

Ok. Do you want these classes to be present both in the classpath .deb
and in the new .deb packages we'll be creating?

This may have implications for different versions of these classes.
Users may not upgrade all these packages at the same time so they could
have different versions in different places.


-- 
John Leuner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Virtual machines in Debian

[John Leuner]

Another free JVM in debian is kissme. Functionality is very similar to
sablevm (both use GNU Classpath).

The JRVM from IBM should be relatively easy to package for Debian, I
haven't got round to it yet.

John Leuner


On Tue, 2003-04-15 at 14:15, Mark Howard wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-04-15 at 11:02, Loïc Minier wrote:
> >I'm searching for a page summarizing functionnalities of free JVMs.
> >  I'd like to find a viable alternative to Sun's JDK, that's why I'd
> >  like to compare the various free virtual machines available in Debian
> >  (kaffe, IBM, GNU...).
> >Right now, my google queries were unsucessful and I would be glad to
> >  read about your experience with free JVM or to follow some links.
> 
> Hi,
>   This keeps changing, so no such page has been produced. What aspects
> of the JVMs would you most like to know about? Here are the ones I know
> about:
> 
> kaffe:
>   quite good. Latest cvs is a lot better than the version packaged for
> Debian
> sablevm: 
>  still quite immature, but has an excellent team behind it. Debian
> packages get updated regularly and upstream are very helpful.
> gij:
>  Supports native compilation. I've had a few problems with gij, but some
> people think it's the best. Gets better at each release.
> IBM - not available in Debian (non-free?)
> Blackdown, Sun  Excellent, but non-free.
> -- 
>   .''`. Mark Howard
>  : :' :
>  `. `'  http://www.tildemh.com
>`-   [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
-- 
John Leuner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Compiling java debian packages with free tools

[John Leuner]

I have been observing the various discussions about changing java policy
etc ..

I feel that despite whatever decisions we make about free and non-free
VMs and tools etc, we should firstly pay attention to simply compiling
our software with free tools and against free libraries or free APIs.

For example there is a debian package called jikes-classpath which can
be used to compile programs against the GNU Classpath libraries. Every
debian java packager should attempt to compile his package with this
tool (or other free compilers).

In cases where the compilation fails because the API is incorrect,
incomplete or missing you should report a bug to the Classpath/relevant 
project. You could also post a message to this mailing list saying
something like "package X doesn't compile because of an incomplete
implementation of Y".

It is our duty as a community to let each other know where free software
is lacking and specifically what needs to be fixed.

Much of the time this work can be trivial because implementing an API to
compile against is much much easier than implementing the functionality.

I haven't discussed the question of whether it is correct for a program
that can be compiled with free software but not run with free software
to go into main. Whatever the outcome of that argument, I still feel it
is very important to focus on being able to compile with free tools and
getting a larger community involved in identifying and fixing problems.

-- 
John Leuner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Question about java-virtual-machine

[John Goerzen]

Hello,

I have just uploaded ikvm to incoming.  ikvm is an implementation of a 
Java virtual machine for .net and runs under Mono.  It can act as a 
replacement for /usr/bin/java with one exception: it cannot handle 
classes/jars that link in native code.

Here's an example.  Jython can use libreadline-java, which in turn has 
some native code.  If I disable libreadline-java, Jython works fine 
with ikvm.  If it's enabled, it breaks.

Here's the question: should ikvm provide java-virtual-machine or not?

Thanks,
John

Is this a Java error?

[John Halton]

[Please cc me in any reply, as I am not subscribed to this list]

I know this isn't a "help" list as such, but what I'm trying to do
here is just diagnose the nature of the problem I'm having, as a first
step to finding a solution (or giving up!).

My employer provides remote access to its systems for employers, using
a Citrix MetaFrame Presentation Server web interface. The Citrix
system is in turn accessed by means of an AEP Netilla VPN.

When I try to access the system using my Debian installation (running
sun-java6-jre 6-00-2 from Lenny, though the version of Java hasn't
seemed to make any difference) I get an error from the "AEP Port
Forwarder" during the connection process, reading as follows:

  - start -
Mon Nov 26 21:17:43 GMT 2007 AEP PF (GUI:0.3 (TreeView/Locale)/NET:0.7
(TDI/Spoofing/Dyn Spoofing/Framing/NetBT/CCD/Remote Proxy)) starting..
BasicRule: Checking rule: Citrix
Access|DNST|NORMAL|UDP|10.16.1.34|53|[employers_externalurl].com
BasicRule: Checking rule: Citrix
Access|DNST|NORMAL|UDP|10.16.1.56|53|[employers_internalurl].com
BasicRule: Checking rule: Citrix
Access|TDIS|NORMAL|TCP|AUTO|AUTO|10.16.1.68|1494
HelperLib: Error starting TDI subsystem: java.io.IOException: Unable
to download native library. IP Aliasing/Restoration functionality is
disabled.
 ---=Starting static rules=  
 ---=Starting rules with AUTO keywords=
Starting rule:   [Citrix Access]   (4:17) ->10.16.1.34:53
Starting rule:   [Citrix Access]   (4:17) ->10.16.1.56:53
Starting rule:   [Citrix Access]   (2:6) ->10.16.1.68:1494
   - end -

I'm particularly focusing on the line beginning "HelperLib". Does this
look like a problem at "my end", i.e. something to do with the version
of Java in Debian, or does it look more like a problem at "their end"
(i.e. there is something in how my employer's system is set up that
means it only Play Nice with Windows - which would't exactly come as a
surprise).

Needless to say, it all works fine when I access it using Windows :-(

Thanks,

John


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Re: Is this a Java error?

[John Halton]

On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 08:21:13AM +0100, Michael Koch wrote:
> It looks like that software tries to do some network access and fails.
> This might be to due missing/wrong prox settings or too restrict
> firewall or ...
> 
> Please use a network sniffer to find out whats wrong. I dont think it
> has anything to do with a bug in SUNs JDK (I may be wrong) or a bug in
> your Citrix sofware.

Thanks for this. I had a look with Wireshark and am not much the
wiser.

In any event, I don't think this is a firewalling or proxy issue, for
a couple of reasons. First, I've tried disabling both the proxy
(squid) and the firewall, to no avail. Second, I can access Citrix
from a Windows VM running within Debian and using the same interface,
passing through the same firewall settings.

If you have any other thoughts then please let me know, though it
sounds from what you're saying like it's not a Java problem. In the
meantime I'll make another attempt to persuade my employer's IT
department to show an interest in the problem (I might "forget" to
tell them I'm using an "unsupported" OS, for example...)

Thanks,

John

[Again, please cc me in any response]


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Re: Is this a Java error?

[John Halton]

On 27/11/2007, Paul Wise <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sounds like it might be trying to download and run some native code,
> but fails because the site only has Win32 code rather than both
> Windows and Linux code. Like Michael said, grab the network traffic
> and compare that to what the Windows version does with network
> traffic.

That explanation definitely makes sense (now that the penny has
dropped as to what "native library" means!), and indeed someone else
contacted me off-list with the same suggestion. Thanks for this.

Just to clarify one point (Java is all a bit mystifying for me). When
you say "the site only has Win32 code", I assume the point is that the
site is trying to make use of a Windows-only native library on my PC,
and doesn't have (or isn't making use of) any capability of using the
equivalent GNU/Linux library that may be present on my machine. Is
that correct?

Apart from that, I think I have now found the information I was
looking for from this list. Thanks to all those who replied, and
thanks to the rest of you for your patience. This issue has been
baffling me for months, and this is the first place I've found any
useful pointers to a solution.

John

[Please cc me in any response. Apologies if this reply breaks the
threading, as I didn't receive the message I'm replying to.]


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Re: Running NetBeans on Debian

[John R. Daily]

To provide some assurance that NetBeans can indeed work on
Debian, I just (today) started running NetBeans on Debian using
Blackdown's J2SE 1.4.1 (beta) package, and it works well.

Have you tried setting JAVA_HOME to the appropriate value?

--
John R. Daily
johngeekhavoc.com


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tomcat or jserv for sparc

[John F. Davis]

Hello

I am trying to install a java servlet package for debian sparc.

There is a gnujsp deb in potato contrib, but there is not a jserv deb.

In woody, there is a jserv src deb, but it depends upon jsdk 2.0 which
is from Sun. However, that seems to be a problem.  Sun has packages for
Linux on Intel only.  Is there something I can do?

John

Also, where is the java debian faq?

Tomcat, Debian Potato, and Sparc

[John F. Davis]

Hello,

Here is a quick rundown on how I managed to get Java Server capability working
on Debian Sparc Linux.

This note was originally sent to my local java users group where we
are learnng how to write/use java servlets.

John


- Forwarded message from "John F. Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -


Hello

Well, I finally got some good news for you guys.

www.skink.net has a running java server now!

check out http://www.skink.net:8080/ it shows a blank page,
but its via tomcat 3.1 which is the servlet server.

Here is a loose run down on how we got here.

1.  I upgraded my os to the latest version of Debian in order to get 
an Apache version which runs jserv or tomcat.

2.  I discovered that the latest version of Debian doesn't have prebuilt
software packages for Jserv or tomcat on the sparc architecture.  They
do have them for intel.  (When I don't know how something works, I like 
to go with the pre-built stuff first.  Then when I have a clue, I install
the source to customize it.)

3.  I tried to build the code for jserv myself.  I can't remember all 
the problems but it basically was that there were some components which
I couldn't find src for sparc.  Source existed for sparc solaris but not
sparc linux.

4.  Learned the difference between jserv and tomcat.  I decided to go 
with tomcat.  jserv is uses JSDK 2.0.  JSDK 2.2 is latest.  Tomcat
supports JSDK 2.2 but doesn't require it.  

5.  Tried to build Ant which Tomcat requries.  Discovered that Jikes/Kaffe
doesn't work with Ant.  

6.  Was about to give up when I found a blackdown version of JDK 1.2.2
for sparc.

7.  Using JDK 1.2.2, I built ANT and then I built tomcat.

8.  Still to go.  Hook tomcat into Apache.


John

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Kaffe porting issues

[John R. Daily]

I've been doing some work to ensure kaffe's availability on the
ia64 port. 1.0.6 has yet to make it into testing, and there is
much work to be done if woody is to ship with a reasonably
up-to-date version.

I'm cc'ing the ports in question in hopes that some of these
problems can be solved by developers more familiar with those
platforms. I haven't included s390, because the failure to build
there seems to involve several missing dependencies, and I would
guess that the lack of kaffe on that platform won't affect the
package's ability to get into woody.

buildd.debian.org/build.php reports that the latest package does
not build on mips, mipsel, hppa, and sparc. 

IA-64
-
I can get kaffe 1.0.6 to build on ia64 through one of two
mechanisms: using libffi to handle the arch-specific stuff, or by
using patches from Mandrake that configure ia64 correctly. (In
either case, a config.{sub,guess} update is required.)

With 1.0.6, I get a memory error when setting up the jvm; I
have yet to successfully track down the problem.

The CVS version of kaffe is much more promising. With Mandrake's
patches applied, the ia64 jvm builds and executes correctly, so
taking a CVS snapshot is attractive from the standpoint of
getting ia64 support into woody.

MIPS(EL)

On mips, the current problem with both 1.0.6 and CVS is that an
include of sigcontext.h should actually be asm/sigcontext.h; the
i386-specific headers included with kaffe properly handle this
via #ifdef, so that can be easily remedied.

The mips/CVS kaffe code, though, has another problem: mips1 and
mips2 do not support the 'movn' assembler instruction used, so
that will have to be rewritten, or the code compiled exclusively
for mips3.

HPPA

hppa is not supported at all; the only parisc configuration files
are for hpux, not linux. This may be circumventable via libffi,
or the existing hpux configuration files might be useful to
create linux ones.

SPARC
-
On sparc, struct sigcontext is defined twice, both in 1.0.6 and
CVS. This should be easy to solve.

...

Decent java support in woody seems like a reasonable goal, so any
help in resolving these issues would be appreciated, as would any
suggestions regarding kaffe 1.0.6 (1.5 years old now) vs. a
current CVS snapshot.

I'm including a table summarizing the state of affairs.


  1.0.6 1.0.6   CVS CVS   
  buildexecute build  execute 
 ia64   w/ patch   no  w/ patch   yes 
 hppa   needs config   n/a needs config   n/a 
   mips(el) patch  unknown patch, needs assembler n/a 
   mods   
sparc   struct sigcontext defined  n/a struct sigcontext  n/a 
twice      defined twice  

--
John R. DailyProgeny Linux Systems
Consultant  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Master of the ephemeral epiphany

Re: Kaffe porting issues

[John R. Daily]

At (time_t)1008187389 Matthew Wilcox wrote:

> Er.  Userspace should _never_ include asm/* headers.

Switching to signal.h (which pulls in bits/sigcontext.h) worked
for mips, but causes other problems on sparc:

signal.c:33: parse error before `__siginfo_t'
signal.c:33: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype
signal.c:34: parse error before `__siginfo_t'
signal.c:34: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype
signal.c:70: parse error before `__siginfo_t'
signal.c:71: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype
signal.c: In function `nullException':
signal.c:81: `sig' undeclared (first use in this function)
signal.c:81: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
signal.c:81: for each function it appears in.)
signal.c:86: `ctx' undeclared (first use in this function)
signal.c:86: `UREG_FP' undeclared (first use in this function)
signal.c: At top level:
signal.c:94: parse error before `__siginfo_t'
signal.c:95: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype
signal.c: In function `floatingException':
signal.c:99: `sig' undeclared (first use in this function)
signal.c:104: `ctx' undeclared (first use in this function)
signal.c:104: `UREG_FP' undeclared (first use in this function)

--
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Consultant  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Master of the ephemeral epiphany

Re: Kaffe porting issues

[John R. Daily]

>From an IA-64 perspective, CVS + Mandrake's patches is the only
viable solution ATM, so I would like to see CVS used instead of
trying to find the appropriate fix(es) to backport.

>From a broader perspective, the age of 1.0.6 would seem to
militate for a CVS snapshot, and I suspect that individuals
looking for support for kaffe would have no more difficult a time
getting it for a CVS version than for 1.0.6.

--
John R. DailyProgeny Linux Systems
Consultant  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Master of the ephemeral epiphany

tomcat or jserv for sparc

[John F. Davis]

Hello

I am trying to install a java servlet package for debian sparc.

There is a gnujsp deb in potato contrib, but there is not a jserv deb.

In woody, there is a jserv src deb, but it depends upon jsdk 2.0 which
is from Sun. However, that seems to be a problem.  Sun has packages for
Linux on Intel only.  Is there something I can do?

John

Also, where is the java debian faq?


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Tomcat, Debian Potato, and Sparc

[John F. Davis]

Hello,

Here is a quick rundown on how I managed to get Java Server capability working
on Debian Sparc Linux.

This note was originally sent to my local java users group where we
are learnng how to write/use java servlets.

John


- Forwarded message from "John F. Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -


Hello

Well, I finally got some good news for you guys.

www.skink.net has a running java server now!

check out http://www.skink.net:8080/ it shows a blank page,
but its via tomcat 3.1 which is the servlet server.

Here is a loose run down on how we got here.

1.  I upgraded my os to the latest version of Debian in order to get 
an Apache version which runs jserv or tomcat.

2.  I discovered that the latest version of Debian doesn't have prebuilt
software packages for Jserv or tomcat on the sparc architecture.  They
do have them for intel.  (When I don't know how something works, I like 
to go with the pre-built stuff first.  Then when I have a clue, I install
the source to customize it.)

3.  I tried to build the code for jserv myself.  I can't remember all 
the problems but it basically was that there were some components which
I couldn't find src for sparc.  Source existed for sparc solaris but not
sparc linux.

4.  Learned the difference between jserv and tomcat.  I decided to go 
with tomcat.  jserv is uses JSDK 2.0.  JSDK 2.2 is latest.  Tomcat
supports JSDK 2.2 but doesn't require it.  

5.  Tried to build Ant which Tomcat requries.  Discovered that Jikes/Kaffe
doesn't work with Ant.  

6.  Was about to give up when I found a blackdown version of JDK 1.2.2
for sparc.

7.  Using JDK 1.2.2, I built ANT and then I built tomcat.

8.  Still to go.  Hook tomcat into Apache.


John

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Kaffe porting issues

[John R. Daily]

I've been doing some work to ensure kaffe's availability on the
ia64 port. 1.0.6 has yet to make it into testing, and there is
much work to be done if woody is to ship with a reasonably
up-to-date version.

I'm cc'ing the ports in question in hopes that some of these
problems can be solved by developers more familiar with those
platforms. I haven't included s390, because the failure to build
there seems to involve several missing dependencies, and I would
guess that the lack of kaffe on that platform won't affect the
package's ability to get into woody.

buildd.debian.org/build.php reports that the latest package does
not build on mips, mipsel, hppa, and sparc. 

IA-64
-
I can get kaffe 1.0.6 to build on ia64 through one of two
mechanisms: using libffi to handle the arch-specific stuff, or by
using patches from Mandrake that configure ia64 correctly. (In
either case, a config.{sub,guess} update is required.)

With 1.0.6, I get a memory error when setting up the jvm; I
have yet to successfully track down the problem.

The CVS version of kaffe is much more promising. With Mandrake's
patches applied, the ia64 jvm builds and executes correctly, so
taking a CVS snapshot is attractive from the standpoint of
getting ia64 support into woody.

MIPS(EL)

On mips, the current problem with both 1.0.6 and CVS is that an
include of sigcontext.h should actually be asm/sigcontext.h; the
i386-specific headers included with kaffe properly handle this
via #ifdef, so that can be easily remedied.

The mips/CVS kaffe code, though, has another problem: mips1 and
mips2 do not support the 'movn' assembler instruction used, so
that will have to be rewritten, or the code compiled exclusively
for mips3.

HPPA

hppa is not supported at all; the only parisc configuration files
are for hpux, not linux. This may be circumventable via libffi,
or the existing hpux configuration files might be useful to
create linux ones.

SPARC
-
On sparc, struct sigcontext is defined twice, both in 1.0.6 and
CVS. This should be easy to solve.

...

Decent java support in woody seems like a reasonable goal, so any
help in resolving these issues would be appreciated, as would any
suggestions regarding kaffe 1.0.6 (1.5 years old now) vs. a
current CVS snapshot.

I'm including a table summarizing the state of affairs.


  1.0.6 1.0.6   CVS CVS   
  buildexecute build  execute 
 ia64   w/ patch   no  w/ patch   yes 
 hppa   needs config   n/a needs config   n/a 
   mips(el) patch  unknown patch, needs assembler n/a 
   mods   
sparc   struct sigcontext defined  n/a struct sigcontext  n/a 
twice      defined twice  

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Re: Kaffe porting issues

[John R. Daily]

At (time_t)1008187389 Matthew Wilcox wrote:

> Er.  Userspace should _never_ include asm/* headers.

Switching to signal.h (which pulls in bits/sigcontext.h) worked
for mips, but causes other problems on sparc:

signal.c:33: parse error before `__siginfo_t'
signal.c:33: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype
signal.c:34: parse error before `__siginfo_t'
signal.c:34: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype
signal.c:70: parse error before `__siginfo_t'
signal.c:71: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype
signal.c: In function `nullException':
signal.c:81: `sig' undeclared (first use in this function)
signal.c:81: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
signal.c:81: for each function it appears in.)
signal.c:86: `ctx' undeclared (first use in this function)
signal.c:86: `UREG_FP' undeclared (first use in this function)
signal.c: At top level:
signal.c:94: parse error before `__siginfo_t'
signal.c:95: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype
signal.c: In function `floatingException':
signal.c:99: `sig' undeclared (first use in this function)
signal.c:104: `ctx' undeclared (first use in this function)
signal.c:104: `UREG_FP' undeclared (first use in this function)

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Re: Kaffe porting issues

[John R. Daily]

>From an IA-64 perspective, CVS + Mandrake's patches is the only
viable solution ATM, so I would like to see CVS used instead of
trying to find the appropriate fix(es) to backport.

>From a broader perspective, the age of 1.0.6 would seem to
militate for a CVS snapshot, and I suspect that individuals
looking for support for kaffe would have no more difficult a time
getting it for a CVS version than for 1.0.6.

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Re: Running NetBeans on Debian

[John R. Daily]

To provide some assurance that NetBeans can indeed work on
Debian, I just (today) started running NetBeans on Debian using
Blackdown's J2SE 1.4.1 (beta) package, and it works well.

Have you tried setting JAVA_HOME to the appropriate value?

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Re: OpenJDK 8 transition

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 09/03/2015 04:44 PM, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Sep 2015, Andreas Schwab wrote:
> 
>> This worksforme.

Am I missing an email? I can't see Andreas' reply anywhere.

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Bug#871606: openjdk-9: Please drop some unused patches

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Source: openjdk-9
Version: 9~b181-2
Severity: normal

Hi!

The following patches are no longer applied and are guaranteed not to
be used anymore. It should be safe to remove them:

 - 8073754-stack-overflow-9-build.diff
 - autoconf-updates.diff
 - hotspot-sparc-arch.diff
 - hotspot-sparc-fix.diff
 - ppc64le.diff
 - sparc-stubgenerator.diff

This should help us start get going cleaning up openjdk-9 for future
security updates. I'm currently working on getting more and more patches
upstreamed. I have signed Oracle's OCA and already contributed three
patches upstream.

Adrian

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Re: openjdk-8 re-uploaded to unstable (currently in NEW)

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hi!

On 5/27/19 11:04 PM, Matthias Klose wrote:
> The packages are now accepted and the 8u212-b03 upstream version is now 
> uploaded
> as well.
> 
> The changes and buildinfo files didn't exist anymore for the powerpc, ppc64,
> sparc64 and x32 binaries, so if a porter wants to restore those, please 
> rebuild
> them with manually installed openjdk-8 packages from snapshot.debian.org.

Yes, I can do that. So, if I understand correctly, Kotlin requires OpenJDK-8
to work?

Adrian

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