Re: Asking for a new pseudo package in the BTS: l10n-french

[Martin Quinson]

On Sun, Jan 26, 2003 at 08:49:15PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jan 2003, Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote:
> 
> > Em Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:16:19 -0600 (CST), Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > escreveu:
> >
> > > > Thanks for creating this pseudo module, or for indicating who I should 
> > > > ask
> > > > if I'm wrong.
> > >
> > > Ask ftpmaster, they are responsible.  Additionally, I think this pseudo
> > > package is a waste. There is no l10n package, let alone l10n-foo.
> >
> > I like the idea. Translators also need to fix their bugs, and there's
> > currently no centralized (not even a sane =P) way to report bugs on
> > translations.
> >
> > I would ask for the creation of l10n-pt_BR if brazilian people would
> > start trying to report that kind of bugs.
> >
> > No, mailing lists are not enough for that, it is not an efficient medium
> > for archiving and stuff.
> 
> I'm not convinced.  Everything you say can be done perfectly well thru mailing
> lists.

Adam, please, let the translators work. Stop giving useless advices on
something you don't understand.

When will it be possible to show the translated dpkg descriptions to users?

Mt, quite upset.

R:UNSUBSCRIBE

[De Rienzo Carmine]

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Carmine De Rienzo
Telespazio S.P.A.
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e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


> --
> Da:   Martin Quinson[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Inviato:  lunedì 27 gennaio 2003 9.20
> A:Adam Heath
> Cc:   Gustavo Noronha Silva; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> debian-policy@lists.debian.org; debian-i18n@lists.debian.org
> Oggetto:  Re: Asking for a new pseudo package in the BTS: l10n-french
> 
> On Sun, Jan 26, 2003 at 08:49:15PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote:
> > On Fri, 24 Jan 2003, Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote:
> > 
> > > Em Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:16:19 -0600 (CST), Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> escreveu:
> > >
> > > > > Thanks for creating this pseudo module, or for indicating who I
> should ask
> > > > > if I'm wrong.
> > > >
> > > > Ask ftpmaster, they are responsible.  Additionally, I think this
> pseudo
> > > > package is a waste. There is no l10n package, let alone l10n-foo.
> > >
> > > I like the idea. Translators also need to fix their bugs, and there's
> > > currently no centralized (not even a sane =P) way to report bugs on
> > > translations.
> > >
> > > I would ask for the creation of l10n-pt_BR if brazilian people would
> > > start trying to report that kind of bugs.
> > >
> > > No, mailing lists are not enough for that, it is not an efficient
> medium
> > > for archiving and stuff.
> > 
> > I'm not convinced.  Everything you say can be done perfectly well thru
> mailing
> > lists.
> 
> Adam, please, let the translators work. Stop giving useless advices on
> something you don't understand.
> 
> When will it be possible to show the translated dpkg descriptions to
> users?
> 
> Mt, quite upset.
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

Re: Asking for a new pseudo package in the BTS: l10n-french

[Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña]

On Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 04:03:39PM +0100, Martin Quinson wrote:
> [debian-i18n CCed for obvious reason, debian-policy CCed because I'm not
>  sure anymore who decides which pseudo-package exists] 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> As coordinator of the french translation team, we would like to ask for the
> creation of a new pseudo package in the BTS. It would be called l10n-french,
> and would be made to repport problems in french translations.

I'm not convinced this is a good idea for several reasons. The main
one being that the BTS already holds a place for translation bugs, but that
really depends on what the translation is _about_:

1.- is it a debconf template? then the package that included it should be
bugged.
2.- is it a document that it's included in a package? then the package
should be bugged (sample: doc-debian-fr)
3.- is the document not available in the package? Then file a bug against
debian-doc
4.- is it a manpage? Is it packaged with the program: bug the program, is
it not? bug manpages-XX (XX=es|fr|pt...)

Yes, this might seem overly complicated. It would probably be useful to
have a 'debian-i18n' pseudo-package so that translation coordinators
(subscribed through the PTS) could reassign bugs to the appropiate place
(following the above rule). This should be first created before going on to
create 'debian-i18n-french' or similar ones. IMHO.

I would like you, first, to read the proposal on how to bug documentation
packages (and translations) we've been working on at debian-doc. Please
read http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/ddp-policy/ch-feedback.en.html

This is not yet policy (it's a draft).

However, I _do_ see the need for a new BTS tag: 'translation'. This could
probably make package maintainer's life easier as well as PTS subscribers
to packages which only want to see translation bugs.


Javi

PS: You can submit your proposals to the DDP-policy as patches, thank you.


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Re: Asking for a new pseudo package in the BTS: l10n-french

[Denis Barbier]

On Mon, Jan 27, 2003 at 02:06:09PM +0100, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote:
[...]
> However, I _do_ see the need for a new BTS tag: 'translation'. This could
> probably make package maintainer's life easier as well as PTS subscribers
> to packages which only want to see translation bugs.

Such a tag would be quite useless unless you can tell which language is
targeted, so we need translation-XX tags.  IMO we (translation team
coordinators) need a way to receive l10n bugreports related to our
beloved language for all packages, thus having a pseudo-package does
make sense, unless there are better solutions.

Denis

Re: Asking for a new pseudo package in the BTS: l10n-french

[Gustavo Noronha Silva]

Em Mon, 27 Jan 2003 14:06:09 +0100, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escreveu:

> On Fri, Jan 24, 2003 at 04:03:39PM +0100, Martin Quinson wrote:
> > As coordinator of the french translation team, we would like to ask for the
> > creation of a new pseudo package in the BTS. It would be called l10n-french,
> > and would be made to repport problems in french translations.
> 
>   I'm not convinced this is a good idea for several reasons. The main
> one being that the BTS already holds a place for translation bugs, but that
> really depends on what the translation is _about_:
> 
> 1.- is it a debconf template? then the package that included it should be
> bugged.
> 2.- is it a document that it's included in a package? then the package
> should be bugged (sample: doc-debian-fr)
> 3.- is the document not available in the package? Then file a bug against
> debian-doc
> 4.- is it a manpage? Is it packaged with the program: bug the program, is
> it not? bug manpages-XX (XX=es|fr|pt...)

That would work if we had official translators for every piece of software,
doc or template we translate. Someone who could keep monitoring his "packages".

Our reality is quite differente... we have quite few translators for a lot
of resources and a centralized way to receive and store translation bugs
is something that would help us a lot.

Michael Brammer helped us a lot by creating the DDTP, it has a nice centralized
bug reporting interface. But still, people need to know how to use the DDTP
to "report a bug".

As reporting bugs to the BTS is already known to lots of users it would help
us a lot if we had a l10n-pt pseudo-package, for example, with
debian-l10n-portuguese as the maintainer.

So, a user could report:

"manpage X on package Y has 'usuários' spelled 'usurios'"

And the translators would quickly know about that bug, and we would have
sane archiving of old and new bugs. If, instead, someone reports this to
the package Y, we would depend on the maintainer doing work for us, and
we already know not all maintainers are helpful on i18n matters =P.

We do not have manpower to monitor lots of bug pages.

> However, I _do_ see the need for a new BTS tag: 'translation'. This could
> probably make package maintainer's life easier as well as PTS subscribers
> to packages which only want to see translation bugs.

That would help, but a 'translation' bug could happen in any language,
and it would suck having to browse translation bugs for all languages
to find bugs reported on mine.

[]s!

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gustavo Noronha 
Debian:   *  
Dúvidas sobre o Debian? Visite o Rau-Tu: http://rautu.cipsga.org.br

Re: Asking for a new pseudo package in the BTS: l10n-french

[Andrew Suffield]

[Obscene CC list eliminated]

On Mon, Jan 27, 2003 at 08:51:45AM +0100, Martin Quinson wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 26, 2003 at 08:49:15PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote:
> > On Fri, 24 Jan 2003, Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote:
> > 
> > > Em Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:16:19 -0600 (CST), Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > escreveu:
> > >
> > > > > Thanks for creating this pseudo module, or for indicating who I 
> > > > > should ask
> > > > > if I'm wrong.
> > > >
> > > > Ask ftpmaster, they are responsible.  Additionally, I think this pseudo
> > > > package is a waste. There is no l10n package, let alone l10n-foo.
> > >
> > > I like the idea. Translators also need to fix their bugs, and there's
> > > currently no centralized (not even a sane =P) way to report bugs on
> > > translations.
> > >
> > > I would ask for the creation of l10n-pt_BR if brazilian people would
> > > start trying to report that kind of bugs.
> > >
> > > No, mailing lists are not enough for that, it is not an efficient medium
> > > for archiving and stuff.
> > 
> > I'm not convinced.  Everything you say can be done perfectly well thru 
> > mailing
> > lists.
> 
> Adam, please, let the translators work. Stop giving useless advices on
> something you don't understand.

Right back at you.

That mail contained nothing but an unsubstantiated flame, roughly
equivalent to "I'm right, you're wrong, now do what I say". Did you
really expect it to persuade people to do stuff?

-- 
  .''`.  ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield
 : :' :  http://www.debian.org/ | Dept. of Computing,
 `. `'  | Imperial College,
   `- -><-  | London, UK


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