Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?
I keep seeing your arguments about how some people want on;y a 100 MB system by default. But you do give an option to have a Desktop, even Laptop install. What not make those installs have better support for Desktop and Laptop Users. For example, why not have the package updater installed for those who specifically want to install the desktop environment? Those who only want servers or 100MB installs will not be hurt by this move. Then, Desktop and Laptop users are happy too. In short, it would be nice if the Desktop and Laptop environments catered to Desktop users. I see how Debian is innovative with apt, lintian, etc.. But why not innovative with the Desktop experience? Katrina Jackson PS. Hardware, Hardware, Hardware, I have to confess, if there was better hardware support I think most people would be happy. Hardware supported by Ubuntu 6 months ago, should be supported by Debian by now.
Re: package ownership in Debian (was: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?)
Okay here is another honest question: Do you really honestly think not having co-maintainers for base packages is ever a good idea? What if someone is busy? You don't really feel safe noticing your base packages aren't being co-maintained since people are busy. Also back to the innovation issue: Don't your think having more comaitainers there would be more innovation merging a package into Debian. Is your goal just to make a package compile and not have RC bugs, or is it to take a package and innovate in a way to make that package experience must better for a Debian User? With co-maintainers this would be easier to pull off. Not to cause a fight, I just wanted to point out some say all Debian is worried about is RC bugs. "Debian worships RC bugs". With co-maintainers you could do a better job "worshiping RC Bugs" While doing additional work to innovate how that package will work in Debian. Plus more QA support when more then one work on the package.
Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?
On 7/28/06, Otavio Salvador <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This is done by Desktop environmnet task. You might give a try toDebian once d-i beta3 goes out and then redo your comments.I think would be really good if you could to do that. I am happy to hear this. If the Default Desktop environment seems improved with beta 3 I will be very happy. Here is one question I have: You say Ubuntu has better publicity, which it does. But why is this the case? I know Mark has more money, but since you have so many programmers, and seem so passionate about your OS, why aren't you as successful getting publicity? I'm not accusing anyone. I guess I just really would like to know: A.) Could Debian do anything to get better publicity and change people's perceptions. (For instance, if Debian is so more "well build" then Ubuntu why don't the press keep mentioning this? B.) Why hasn't more been done? Why isn't there any major reports by like PC World which say "Ubuntu is top 100 products, but man if you want a better distro, more well built etc.. you should check out Debian. Again, I don't want to accuse anyone of anything, but it just doesn't seem you, with as many as you have working for you, can generate as much mainstream publicity. I mean from major things like PC World, not just Planet Debian.
Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?
To Whom It May Concern, I am concerned Debian isn't trying to meet people's needs enough. You seem to have so many more people working for you, and you both use the same format for things, so it doesn't make sense to me why you can't keep up with Ubuntu. A. Ubuntu seems like it can get hardware support immeadiatly, but that support never seems to quickly get to Debian. I have been using Ubuntu since Debian doesn't wok on my laptop. Suspend doesn't work and my wireless pro 3945ABG doesn't work. With Ubuntu everything works fine. B. Ubuntu members not only support mailing lists and IRC but suport user forums which are so much more user friendly and don't fill up your mailbox.C. You seem to worry only about packaging. You push people to package. But you don't focus on making your OS better. Ubuntu has made so many nice features for their OS that you don't seem to do. I really don't know why. I think you need to emphsise less packaging and more focus on making your current OS better for people. Why does Ubuntu have to have all the great ideas for their users? One example: They have a pop up telling you updates are ready. Now maybe you now have this feature, I don't know, but I see great ideas like this every six months with Ubuntu, and I see nothing from debian. Except apt, but man, one nice thing a decade is pretty slow. D. Going back to C., doesn't is concern you you have so many programmers but so few good new Ideas for your OS compared to Ubuntu that will help your users? How do they have 10 times the good ideas you seem to. And furthermore, when a good idea is presented to them they say, "good idea, we should impliment that" not "there's plenty of documantation, do it yourself". E. Going back to the last statement, I could write an entire email on how people think you guys are so unapproachable and so down right mean to users who make these suggestions. Users' concerns mean nothing to you. ***If they did you would be spending as much time as Ubuntu coming up with great ideas to revoultionize your OS to better meet people's needs*** Why are you so mean? I know you will either ignore this letter or rip my head off, but somebody needs to tell you. E. Mr. Hess has a nice supermarket argument but can't see that Debian needs to steal a few things from Ubuntu, ie it goes both ways. There seems to be so many issues. It seems you guys just don't care about your users. You don't go out of your way to make your users have a better experience. I honestly think you only care about yourselves. I doesn't seem you try to hard to care about your users. What is the difference? Why are you guys so anti being there for your users. The reason why Ubuntu is more popular than you is they honestly focus their attention on making their users happy. They actually seem to care about people's needs. As was recently said, pretty and nice are features too. I don't understand what the deal is. Any, good programmers have good ideas they impliment, more then just the ability to hack to debug. Is debian good for anything besides Debuuging, Debugging, Debugging. Never and new great features or ideas. I hope you guys will put some thought into this, but by the reputation you have I am guessing you will say, "If a user wants something done do it yourself, there's plenty of documentation. We don't need to change, we are the best programmers there are. We are too good to take notes from Ubuntu" Unfortunatly I think you just aren't smart enough to read the writing on the wall that there is a reason Ubuntu has been for a while now such a more popular distro then us. Katrina Jackson
Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?
I am sorry I am a Troll. I guess I was too harsh. But I guess these are my main resons for writing. A.) Ubuntu seems to have such better Hardware support I wonder if people are only packaging, not working on Hardware support. B.) Out of a fresh installation, Ubuntu has so many features that are immeadiatly seen, like my notifier example, that make your life easier I felt, "Ubuntu really cares about it's users, they make there life so easy." When I install debian I didn't see as many features to make your life easy. I wondered if you guys cared about the User's experience. C.) I admit Ubuntu gives a lot of Hype about their new features, but at least those features make the user OS experience better. The only hype I see from Debian seems to be, more packages!!! As if packages are only important. Not making nice features for users. D.) You mentioned forums.debian.net, but who supports it? It seems like only a small number. It doesn't seem you push for its support. If fact it isn't even an offial thing I've been told. I'm sorry if I am a troll. I was just tinking, why do you have suce little desktop/laptop support. Do your users who uses those machines not as important to you. I'm sorry if I've offended people, but can none you guys relate at all to my concerns? Katrina Jackson
Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?
On 7/28/06, Amaya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Marco d'Itri wrote:> It's sad that many people replied this way when it's obvious that> Debian has stopped innovating long ago.This is exactly what I am talking about
