Re: [CTTE #688772] Dependency of meta-gnome on network-manager

2013-02-26 Thread Josselin Mouette 
Le lundi 25 février 2013 à 11:43 -0800, Don Armstrong a écrit :
> 4. We overrule the decision of the meta-gnome maintainers to add a
>dependency from gnome to network-manager-gnome; this dependency
>should be removed. If in the opinion of the NM maintainer (and
>before the release of wheezy the Chair of the Technical Committee
>or an individual delegated by the Chair in consultation with the
>Release Team) the concerns raised in §4 of the CTTE decision
>#681834 have been addressed through technical means (e.g. by
>preventing the starting of NM as discussed in #688772), the
>meta-gnome maintainers may freely adjust the dependencies as
>usual.

Can we consider that the changes in NetworkManager 0.9.4.0-9 are OK on
this matter?

-- 
.''`.  Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `'
  `-


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Re: Bug#701585: marked as done (general: Can't select other languages)

2013-02-26 Thread Josselin Mouette 
reassign 701585 general
thanks

Le mardi 26 février 2013 à 08:34 +0100, Wouter Verhelst a écrit :
> No, but the BTS is (to some extent), and there are various tools that
> suggest the package "general" if you don't know what the exact buggy
> program is. When doing that, the package ends up on debian-devel.
> 
> Since the bug reporter mentioned he tried to use a gnome settings tool
> to switch languages, but that it didn't work, I'm reassigning this bug
> to gnome-settings-daemon (at a guess, but that does *seem* to be the
> most appropriate).

Thanks for your intervention, but there is nothing that can be done in
GNOME. The bug is a general design choice in Debian, namely the one to
not generate all locales but to require a “dpkg-reconfigure locales” to
add new locales. 

> > Btw. "dpkg-reconfigure locales" might help, and look for the
> > localization packages and tasks via APT/aptititude.
> 
> Yes, that might help this particular user; but if there is a tool that
> claims to be able to do something but isn't, then that is a bug.

The problem is that nobody will have the idea to run this tool.

> I can think of several ways to fix it: the tool could display a helpful
> error message when the user selects a language that isn't enabled in
> /etc/locale.gen, or it could simply disable all languages not found
> there (again, with a helpful message for where to look if a wanted
> language isn't in the list)

That’s what gnome-control-center does. This is not helpful for the user
who wants to select another language, though.

The bug is that we do not install locales-all by default, nor do we
default to generate all (at least all UTF-8) locales.

Cheers,
-- 
.''`.  Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `'
  `-


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Processed: Re: Bug#701585: marked as done (general: Can't select other languages)

2013-02-26 Thread Debian Bug Tracking System 
Processing commands for cont...@bugs.debian.org:

> reassign 701585 general
Bug #701585 [gnome-settings-daemon] general: Can't select other languages
Bug reassigned from package 'gnome-settings-daemon' to 'general'.
Ignoring request to alter found versions of bug #701585 to the same values 
previously set
Ignoring request to alter fixed versions of bug #701585 to the same values 
previously set
> thanks
Stopping processing here.

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Re: Bug#701585: marked as done (general: Can't select other languages)

2013-02-26 Thread Christian PERRIER 
Quoting Josselin Mouette (j...@debian.org):

> That’s what gnome-control-center does. This is not helpful for the user
> who wants to select another language, though.
> 
> The bug is that we do not install locales-all by default, nor do we
> default to generate all (at least all UTF-8) locales.

At least, we could consider installing locales-all for localized
desktop installs. It's a bit more than 100MB on the hard disk and a
3MB package.

Generating all locales is more debatable, considering the hug CPU time
it would probably require at install time.




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Bug#701585: marked as done (general: Can't select other languages)

2013-02-26 Thread Holger Levsen 
reassign 701585 locales
# or close
thanks

On Dienstag, 26. Februar 2013, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> reassign 701585 general
> thanks
> 
> Le mardi 26 février 2013 à 08:34 +0100, Wouter Verhelst a écrit :
> > No, but the BTS is (to some extent), and there are various tools that
> > suggest the package "general" if you don't know what the exact buggy
> > program is. When doing that, the package ends up on debian-devel.
> > 
> > Since the bug reporter mentioned he tried to use a gnome settings tool
> > to switch languages, but that it didn't work, I'm reassigning this bug
> > to gnome-settings-daemon (at a guess, but that does *seem* to be the
> > most appropriate).
> 
> Thanks for your intervention, but there is nothing that can be done in
> GNOME. The bug is a general design choice in Debian, namely the one to
> not generate all locales but to require a “dpkg-reconfigure locales” to
> add new locales.
 
If it's a design choice, it's not a bug. If it's bad design, it's a bug.
I'll leave the decision to the locales maintainers.

> > > Btw. "dpkg-reconfigure locales" might help, and look for the
> > > localization packages and tasks via APT/aptititude.
> > 
> > Yes, that might help this particular user; but if there is a tool that
> > claims to be able to do something but isn't, then that is a bug.
> 
> The problem is that nobody will have the idea to run this tool.
> 
> > I can think of several ways to fix it: the tool could display a helpful
> > error message when the user selects a language that isn't enabled in
> > /etc/locale.gen, or it could simply disable all languages not found
> > there (again, with a helpful message for where to look if a wanted
> > language isn't in the list)
> 
> That’s what gnome-control-center does. This is not helpful for the user
> who wants to select another language, though.
> 
> The bug is that we do not install locales-all by default, nor do we
> default to generate all (at least all UTF-8) locales.

 
cheers,
Holger


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Processed: Re: Bug#701585: marked as done (general: Can't select other languages)

2013-02-26 Thread Debian Bug Tracking System 
Processing commands for cont...@bugs.debian.org:

> reassign 701585 locales
Bug #701585 [general] general: Can't select other languages
Bug reassigned from package 'general' to 'locales'.
Ignoring request to alter found versions of bug #701585 to the same values 
previously set
Ignoring request to alter fixed versions of bug #701585 to the same values 
previously set
> # or close
> thanks
Stopping processing here.

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Re: [CTTE #688772] Dependency of meta-gnome on network-manager

2013-02-26 Thread Don Armstrong 
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le lundi 25 février 2013 à 11:43 -0800, Don Armstrong a écrit :
> > 4. We overrule the decision of the meta-gnome maintainers to add a
> >dependency from gnome to network-manager-gnome; this dependency
> >should be removed. If in the opinion of the NM maintainer (and
> >before the release of wheezy the Chair of the Technical Committee
> >or an individual delegated by the Chair in consultation with the
> >Release Team) the concerns raised in §4 of the CTTE decision
> >#681834 have been addressed through technical means (e.g. by
> >preventing the starting of NM as discussed in #688772), the
> >meta-gnome maintainers may freely adjust the dependencies as
> >usual.
> 
> Can we consider that the changes in NetworkManager 0.9.4.0-9 are OK on
> this matter?

I think those changes did most/all of the work to resolve the really
important issues from my perspective.[1] However, Bdale and the RMs
are the people who have to decide on this, so my opinion doesn't
really count for anything.

If anyone else has any comments on why the current version of NM
doesn't address the concerns in §4 of the CTTE decision, please raise
them to the bug.


Don Armstrong

1: In case it wasn't clear: thanks to you and Michael for taking the
concerns of the CTTE seriously and working to find a solution;
publishing the decision now instead of earlier was just because of a
lack of time on my part.
-- 
I've had so much good luck recently I was getting sated with it. It's
like sugar, good luck. At first it's very sweet, but after a while you
start to think: any more of this and I shall be sick.
 -- Adam Roberts _Yellow Blue Tibia_ p301

http://www.donarmstrong.com  http://rzlab.ucr.edu


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Bug#701770: ITP: haskell-wl-pprint-text -- Wadler/Leijen Pretty Printer for Text values in Haskell

2013-02-26 Thread Masayuki Hatta 
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Masayuki Hatta 

* Package name: haskell-wl-pprint-text
  Version : 1.1.0.0
  Upstream Author : Ivan Lazar Miljenovic 
* URL : http://hackage.haskell.org/package/wl-pprint-text-1.1.0.0
* License : BSD
  Programming Lang: Haskell
  Description : Wadler/Leijen Pretty Printer for Text values in Haskell

This Haskell library provides a clone of wl-pprint for use with the 
text library.


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Re: Bug#698656: ITP: adequate -- Debian package quality testing tool

2013-02-26 Thread Jakub Wilk 

* Paul Wise , 2013-01-22, 10:24:
Please add the commands needed for running adequate to this list of 
checking tools:


http://wiki.debian.org/HowToPackageForDebian#Check_points_for_any_package


Unlike other tools on that list, adequate requires the package to be 
installed before it can be checked. Then you call it this way:


adequate 

Feel free to update the wiki page; I won't do it myself.

--
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Re: Bug#688772: [CTTE #688772] Dependency of meta-gnome on network-manager

2013-02-26 Thread Chris Knadle 
On Tuesday, February 26, 2013 13:31:37, Don Armstrong wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Feb 2013, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > Le lundi 25 février 2013 à 11:43 -0800, Don Armstrong a écrit :
> > > 4. We overrule the decision of the meta-gnome maintainers to add a
> > > 
> > >dependency from gnome to network-manager-gnome; this dependency
> > >should be removed. If in the opinion of the NM maintainer (and
> > >before the release of wheezy the Chair of the Technical Committee
> > >or an individual delegated by the Chair in consultation with the
> > >Release Team) the concerns raised in §4 of the CTTE decision
> > >#681834 have been addressed through technical means (e.g. by
> > >preventing the starting of NM as discussed in #688772), the
> > >meta-gnome maintainers may freely adjust the dependencies as
> > >usual.
> > 
> > Can we consider that the changes in NetworkManager 0.9.4.0-9 are OK on
> > this matter?
> 
> I think those changes did most/all of the work to resolve the really
> important issues from my perspective.[1] However, Bdale and the RMs
> are the people who have to decide on this, so my opinion doesn't
> really count for anything.
> 
> If anyone else has any comments on why the current version of NM
> doesn't address the concerns in §4 of the CTTE decision, please raise
> them to the bug.

Were the issues relating to wicd and network-manager intercting badly 
addressed somehow?  I know there was a plan [1] to fix this, but I didn't see 
the intended followup.  [There may have been unforseen difficulties with the 
proposed solution.]

Last I checked this as part of #688772, attempting to use wicd caused a 
counterintuitive error message of "Connection Failed: bad password" if 
network-manager was running.  I just tested this again on Sid, and this is 
still the case.  [I don't currently have the ability to test Wheezy for this.]

When this was brought up in the bug report, the response was "network-manager 
can be installed, then disabled", but how to do that wasn't documented 
anywhere in the network-manager package.  Instead the next suggestion was 
documenting this issue in the Wheey errata [2], but I don't see network-
manager or wicd mentioned there, nor mentioned in the Installation Guide [3] 
for Wheezy.

Suggestions?

[1]:  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=688772#464

[2]:  http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/errata

[3]:  http://www.debian.org/releases/testing/amd64/install.txt.en

  -- Chris

--
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chris.kna...@coredump.us


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Re: Bug#701585: marked as done (general: Can't select other languages)

2013-02-26 Thread Charles Plessy 
Le Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 07:27:19PM +0100, Christian PERRIER a écrit :
> Quoting Josselin Mouette (j...@debian.org):
> 
> > That’s what gnome-control-center does. This is not helpful for the user
> > who wants to select another language, though.
> > 
> > The bug is that we do not install locales-all by default, nor do we
> > default to generate all (at least all UTF-8) locales.
> 
> At least, we could consider installing locales-all for localized
> desktop installs. It's a bit more than 100MB on the hard disk and a
> 3MB package.

Hi all,

on these systems, getting all the default fonts and input methods would also be
a big plus.  For the moment we are years behind other systems such as Mac OS,
where at any time it is possible to switch language or browse a website in a
language that is not the default one of the session.

In contrast, this is what "apt-cache search japanese default font" returns:

printer-driver-cjet - printer driver for Canon LBP laser printers
fbterm - A fast framebuffer based terminal emulator for Linux
fonts-umeplus - Japanese TrueType gothic fonts, based on Umefont and M+Font

and for Chinese:

fbterm - A fast framebuffer based terminal emulator for Linux

(and nothing for Korean.)

By the way, we already had a similar thread earlier.

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/02/msg00638.html

Would it be OK to have one tasksel metapackage that installs all the
other localisation metapackages from tasksel ?

Have a nice day,

-- 
Charles Plessy
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan


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Re: Bug#701585: marked as done (general: Can't select other languages)

2013-02-26 Thread Russ Allbery 
Charles Plessy  writes:

> on these systems, getting all the default fonts and input methods would
> also be a big plus.  For the moment we are years behind other systems
> such as Mac OS, where at any time it is possible to switch language or
> browse a website in a language that is not the default one of the
> session.

Amen to this.  I care a lot about having fairly complete Unicode coverage
in my display fonts, and I've often had to trawl through aptitude to try
to guess at which font packages I need to install just to, for example,
see the front page of Wikipedia without annoying empty squares.

Let alone http://www.columbia.edu/~fdc/utf8/ where I'm still missing:

Vietnamese (nôm) (only some characters)
Mongolian (Classic)

These may actually be covered by fonts in Debian, but I don't know how to
find them.

-- 
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arm64 Debian/Ubuntu port image available

2013-02-26 Thread Wookey 
State of the Debian/Ubuntu arm64 port
=

*** Arm64 lives! ***

Executive summary
-

 * There is now a bootable (raring) image to download and run
 * Everything has been rebuilt against glibc 2.17 so it works
 * A bit more work is needed to make the rootfs useable as a native buildd
 * Multiarch crossbuilding and the build-profile mechanism is mature enough to 
cross-build 
a port from scratch (this is a big deal IMHO)
 * All packages, sources and tools are in a public repo and this work should be 
reproducible.
 * This image is fully multiarched so co-installing armhf for a
64/32 mix should work nicely, as should multiarch crossbuilding to
legacy x86 architectures. :-) (but I haven't tried that yet...)


 * Linaro wants 'the distros' to take this work forward from here so people 
interested in 
Debian and Ubuntu on 64-bit arm hardware need to step up and help out.


Bootable images
---

A milestone was reached this week: Enough packages were built for arm64 to 
debootstrap an
image which booted to a prompt! After a bit of fettling (and switching to 
multistrap) I got
an image with all the packages configured which boots with upstart to a login 
prompt (I
admit, I did get quite excited about this, as it represents the coming together 
of nearly 3
years work on multiarch, crossbuilding, bootstrapping, cyclic dependencies and 
arm64 :-)

The images are available for download:   
http://wiki.debian.org/Arm64Port#Pre-built_Rootfs
And there are destructions there for making your own.

All these packages were cross-built on raring, untangling cyclic dependencies 
with build
profiles (see wiki.debian.org/DebianBootstrap for how that works), making this 
the first
(non x86) self-bootstrapped debian port ever (so far as I know). All (?) 
previous ports have
been done using something else like OpenEmbedded (armel, armhf), RedHat/HardHat 
(arm, alpha,
mips), something IBMy (s390) to get an initial linux rootfs on which debian 
packages are
built. 

The new bootstrap process is (almost) just a list of sbuild commands. In 
practice there are
still a few rough edges around cross- build-dependencies so of the 140 packages 
needed for
the bootstrap, 9 had to be built manually with 'dpkg-buildpackage -aarm64 -d' 
(to skip
build-dep checks) instead of 'sbuild --host arm64 '. 

The current bootstrap packageset status is here: 
  http://people.linaro.org/~wookey/buildd/raring-arm64/status-bootstrap.html

There is no armv8 (arm64/aarch64) hardware available yet, so this image can 
currently only
be run in a model. ARM provide a free-beer prorietary 'Foundation model' so we 
do have
someting to test with. It's sluggish but perfectly useable. Booting the images 
takes a
couple of minutes on my fairly average machine.

The images are using the Linaro OE release kernels which seem to work fine for 
this purpose.
Thanks to Marcin for modified bootloader lines in .axf files. 



Image status


I was impressed that things basically 'just worked' on first boot. There is of 
course plenty
of breakage, I'm sure, and I haven't looked very hard yet, but it's a lot 
better than I
expected after months of just building stuff and testing nothing. (Things that 
are poorly:
nano can't parse it's own syntax-coluring files for example, and multiarch perl 
has the
wrong @INC path compiled in; I'm sure there is more). Consider this alpha-grade 
until it's
been used a bit more.

Things that are not yet built which would make the images a lot more useful are 
apt and a
dhcp client. apt needs gnupg needs curl needs nss. The nss cross-build needs 
fixing to
unbung that. A debian chroot without apt turns out to be disappointing quite 
quickly :-)
Expect an updated image with more packages very soon.


Multiarch crossbuilding
---

It's really nice to have building and crossbuilding using exactly the same 
mechanisms
and tools, with all files having one canonical location, and dependency 
mechanisms that
are reliable. The more I've used this, the more I've been impressed by it. 
There is
still work to do to expand the set of cross-buildable stuff, but it's a solid 
base to
work from. 

Getting this port working has been 'interesting' because it's attempting 4 new 
things all at
once: multiarch (file layouts and dependencies), crossbuilding (tools and 
packaging support
in a distro that historically was always natively built), arm64 (aarch64) 
support in
packages that need it, and build-profiles to linearise the build-order. 

The arm64 part of this is a relatively small part as the heavy lifting has been 
done
upstream (gcc, (e)glibc, binutils, kernel, libffi, autotools and a lot of minor 
fixes in
various packages). Thanks are due to doko (Matthias Klose) for sterling work 
getting all
that integrated into the debian and ubuntu toolchain packages, and infinity 
(Adam Conrad)
for merging various eglibc branches. There were also hordes of very bo

Re: Bug#698656: ITP: adequate -- Debian package quality testing tool

2013-02-26 Thread Paul Wise 
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 6:33 AM, Jakub Wilk wrote:

> Unlike other tools on that list, adequate requires the package to be
> installed before it can be checked. Then you call it this way:
>
> adequate 
>
> Feel free to update the wiki page; I won't do it myself.

Will add it once adequate reaches the archive.

-- 
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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Re: Bug#701585: marked as done (general: Can't select other languages)

2013-02-26 Thread Paul Wise 
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 8:57 AM, Russ Allbery wrote:

> Amen to this.  I care a lot about having fairly complete Unicode coverage
> in my display fonts, and I've often had to trawl through aptitude to try
> to guess at which font packages I need to install just to, for example,
> see the front page of Wikipedia without annoying empty squares.
...
> These may actually be covered by fonts in Debian, but I don't know how to
> find them.

When we finally implement DEP-11, we will have the means to implement
automatic font installation based on needed characters. Hopefully for
jessie we will be able to catch up with Fedora, who have had this for
a while now:

http://wiki.debian.org/DEP-11
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/AutomaticFontInstallation
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/AutoFontsAndMimeInstaller

In the meantime, I might have a look at implementing something for the
Debian fonts review based on the available language information:

http://pkg-fonts.alioth.debian.org/review/
http://pkg-fonts.alioth.debian.org/review/fnt-785d2fd45984c6548763ae6702d83e20.html

There is some info about Unicode coverage in Debian on this wiki page,
at one point we had all of Unicode except Chinese (which has many
thousands of characters) but Unicode moved on since then.

http://wiki.debian.org/Fonts/UnicodeCoverage

-- 
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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