Re: package hierarchy system
Ivan Borzenkov writes: > This document covers very useful improvement of Debian apt system - the > package hierarchy system. This system can help end user make it's difficult > choice which packet he have to install. The main feature is to hide > unnecessary packages to concentrate user's attention on applications > itself. > > For now apt system have no the application concept, only package one. Some > packs. are applications, others are plugins for applications or just > libraries providing some functionality. There are also "-common" packs. > which concentrates common components. > > There are a lot of such packs. For example the quantity of libs is a bit > more then one third an there a lot of plugins. In general the ordinary > user don't have to see more than a half of packs. > > There is a subdivision of packs. into categories, for example web-servers > or multimedia. But it's not enough - such packs. as apache2 or nginx which > should be installed independently are in the same level with > libapache2-mod-bt and libapache2-mod-geoip, which are not apliable without > apache2. The web-servers has a good situation, but there is a real > craziness in administration category for now. > > It seems to be good solution to add packs. hierarchy using "parent pointer" > and service packs. hiding. > We need information to show this pack. or it's a service pack. and which > pack. is it's parent or there is no parent. > The options to hide or to show pack. may be multilevel: > - show all > - hide libraries > - hide debug tools > ... > - show applications only > > I don't think that the using of pack. type is a good idea as the strict > link is only one - hide libraries. > > Examples > > amarok (parent:-, application) > amarok-common (parent:amapok, hide) > amarok-utils (parent:amapok, hide) > > amarok > --- > psi-plis (parent:-, application) > psi-plis-plugins (parent:psi-plis, mod) > psimedia (parent:psi-plis, mod) > > psi-plis > - psi-plis-plugins > - psimedia > --- > proftpd (parent:-, application) > proftpd-doc (parent:proftpd, doc) > proftpd-mod-ldap (parent:proftpd, mod) > proftpd-mod-mysql (parent:proftpd, mod) > proftpd-mod-odbc (parent:proftpd, mod) > proftpd-mod-pgsql (parent:proftpd, mod) > proftpd-mod-sqlite (parent:proftpd, mod) > > (type grouping possible) > proftpd > --docs-- > - proftpd-doc > --plugins-- > - proftpd-mod-ldap > - proftpd-mod-mysql > - proftpd-mod-odbc > - proftpd-mod-pgsql > - proftpd-mod-sqlite > --- > mysql-server (parent:-, server) > mysql-server-5.1 (parent:mysql-server, server) > mysql-server-5.0 (parent:mysql-server, server) > > mysql-server > - mysql-server-5.0 > - mysql-server-5.1 > > Virtual packet parent have to mark as sub items all who provides it. > > Examples > > adobe-flashplayer (parent:webbrovser) > > opera > - adobe-flashplayer > ... > iceweasel > - adobe-flashplayer > > If unhidden pack. have hidden parent it's parent have to be set to 1-st > unhidden or by it's dependence. > > Examples > > libtag-rusxmms (parent: libtag, mod) > libtag (parent:-, hide) > amarok (application) (depend on libtag) > > amarok > - libtag-rusxmms I can see your intentions for improvement, but we already have the concepts of sections and debtags which are explored by various frontends. Searching and narrowing down what you were looking for is a heavily supported feature for both hard core users and mere mortals. Also not that the more hierarchical means you add, the more stagnancy you got, which is not always a good idea imho. -- pub 4096R/0E4BD0AB -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Switch on compiler hardening defaults
On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 01:29:48AM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote: > On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:51:35PM +0100, Bastian Blank wrote: > > What would be a step forward: > > - Make any code PIC, including binaries (PIE) and static libs. > static libs would need to be PIE, not PIC. The differences between PIC and PIE are small. For all relevant architectures the only difference is to enable the shared libs assumptions for fPIC. > This is something that's not properly supported on all our arches. > Some people will also say it's too big a performance impact. I would only change this setting on a per-arch basis. It needs an additional register, but on most arches that should make no visible difference. Bastian -- You're dead, Jim. -- McCoy, "Amok Time", stardate 3372.7 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: GDM, getty and VTs
Josselin Mouette writes: > it’s been a long-standing tradition on Linux to have 6 started getty > processes, in tty1 to tty6. However this doesn’t correspond anymore to > the way we use our machines. > * I don’t think we need more than 2 of these. They are still > useful for servers or when some disaster happens in the GUI, but > who opens 6 console sessions nowadays? I do, and I suspect that some blind users have a similar habit. The point here is that X11 is really not stable enough for us to be useful on a daily basis (at least that is my experience). I still prefer virtual terminals over any sort of X11 based terminal, if its not for stability its for speed. X11 terminals are noticeably more sluggish than real virtual consoles, and the overhead involved in screen reading is just ridiculous. > To make things worse, the latest GDM upstream version doesn’t include a > tty manager anymore. Each started X server will simply use the first > available VT. Red Hat can afford to do that because their gdm is started > by the inittab (which is really a bad idea, but well), but in Debian > this means it takes tty1, stomping on the getty that gets launched here > later. > > So before we start adding hacks on top of the existing, maybe now is the > time to think about how we want to use our VTs. > > 1/ What should be on tty1? Ideally, we should have the display manager > here if it is started, and we should have a getty otherwise. [...] > 2/ How do we prevent bad interaction between console VTs and graphical > VTs? (Of course this is closely related to question 1.) I think graphical environments shouldn't start ignoring the existance of VTs. It certainly feels that way to me upon reading your description. VTs have been around longer than X11, why do people have to forcefully break things which perfectly worked in the past? I think it is a misunderstanding to conclude that VTs are really not useful anymore. Linux has always been about choice (to me at least), something I start to miss in recent years. -- CYa, ⡍⠁⠗⠊⠕ | Debian Developer http://debian.org/> .''`. | Get my public key via finger mlang/k...@db.debian.org : :' : | 1024D/7FC1A0854909BCCDBE6C102DDFFC022A6B113E44 `. `' `- http://delysid.org/> http://www.staff.tugraz.at/mlang/> -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Processed (with 5 errors): retitle + moreinfos
Processing commands for cont...@bugs.debian.org: > retitle 542602 ntp: Should ntp update clock before or after the syslog > collector starts? Bug #542602 [ntp] "event based boot system needed to solve use cases" Changed Bug title to 'ntp: Should ntp update clock before or after the syslog collector starts?' from '"event based boot system needed to solve use cases"' > retitle 417118 "event based boot system needed to solve use cases" Bug #417118 [general] ntpdate: Start sequence problem for some network setups Changed Bug title to '"event based boot system needed to solve use cases"' from 'ntpdate: Start sequence problem for some network setups' > pere, isnt #417118 solved by dependency booting? Unknown command or malformed arguments to command. > h01ger: nope. it is one of the problems that need event based boot to Unknown command or malformed arguments to command. > work. Unknown command or malformed arguments to command. > when do you expect event base booting in debian? IOW: isnt that Unknown command or malformed arguments to command. > something, the user needs to configure? Unknown command or malformed arguments to command. Too many unknown commands, stopping here. Please contact me if you need assistance. Debian bug tracking system administrator (administrator, Debian Bugs database) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#417118: retitle + moreinfos
retitle 542602 ntp: Should ntp update clock before or after the syslog collector starts? retitle 417118 "event based boot system needed to solve use cases" pere, isnt #417118 solved by dependency booting? h01ger: nope. it is one of the problems that need event based boot to work. when do you expect event base booting in debian? IOW: isnt that something, the user needs to configure? h01ger: with the current rate of fixing the remaining stuff with upstart, in squeeze+1. upstart fixes that? upstart make it possible to fix that. it is a event based boot framework. then ntpdate can run when the network is up and the dns server is available. nice h01ger: a similar issue is #542602 pere, can i quote this in 417118? h01ger: sure. I suspect a workaround would be to have several init.d scripts for ntpdate, all running the program when their time has come. :) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: defaulting to net.ipv6.bindv6only=1 for squeeze
Am Samstag 26 Dezember 2009 03:43:08 schrieb Kurt Roeckx:
> On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 12:47:45PM +0100, Hendrik Sattler wrote:
> > I have failures now with a client that cannot connect() to the IPv4
> > address but get an ENETUNREACH instead.
> > The application DOES set this socket option:
> > socket(PF_INET6, SOCK_STREAM, IPPROTO_IP) = 3
> > setsockopt(3, SOL_IPV6, IPV6_V6ONLY, [0], 4) = 0
> > bind(3, {sa_family=AF_INET6,) = 0
> > listen(3, ) = 0
>
> Does that mean your application only works if the kernel supports
> IPv6?
Why would you want to disable basic IPv6 support?
> In that case I think your application is broken.
No. Every software has requirements on the system. And this one requires basic
IPv6 support because it's programmed that way. I don't see any problem with
that. But you are free to have your own opinion.
HS
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Re: defaulting to net.ipv6.bindv6only=1 for squeeze
On 2009-12-26, Hendrik Sattler wrote: >> Does that mean your application only works if the kernel supports >> IPv6? > Why would you want to disable basic IPv6 support? People opt to not have IPv6 support in the kernel because they don't need it, they don't want accidentally get out through IPv6 just because someone sent out router advertisements in untrusted nets, or because some routers do not cope with questions and don't answer, causing timeouts. There are always possibilities where people would want that (me not included), or where people would need that. >> In that case I think your application is broken. > No. Every software has requirements on the system. And this one requires > basic > IPv6 support because it's programmed that way. I don't see any problem with > that. Sure. But there are recommended ways on how to program with sockets to support both IPv4 and IPv6 and it looks that yours is not one of them. Might be a sign of bad quality if it does not depend on the availability of IPv6 itself. > But you are free to have your own opinion. How grateful. I'll take my share of that too. Kind regards, Philipp Kern -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#562658: ITP: ganeti-htools -- Cluster tools for Ganeti
Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Iustin Pop * Package name: ganeti-htools Version : 0.2.0 Upstream Author : Iustin Pop * URL : http://code.google.com/p/ganeti/ * License : GPL2 Programming Lang: Haskell Description : Cluster tools for Ganeti These are additional tools used for enhanced allocation and capacity calculation on Ganeti clusters. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
apt is no longer in base system created by debootstrap? (Re: Bug#562143: fails on cowbuilder --create)
It seems like apt is not installed with debootstrap anymore. And it seems to be staying like this. I'm not sure when this happened, but apt used to be build-essential=yes but now it's not. At Wed, 23 Dec 2009 07:53:54 +0100, Soeren Sonnenburg wrote: > > [1 ] > On Wed, 2009-12-23 at 15:28 +0900, Junichi Uekawa wrote: > > Sounds like a bug for debootstrap, no? > > Indeed! > > > At Wed, 23 Dec 2009 07:15:53 +0100, > > Soeren Sonnenburg wrote: > > > > > > Package: cowbuilder > > > Version: 0.60 > > > Severity: grave > > > > > > I guess apt is missing ... > > > > > > > > > sudo cowbuilder --create > > > > [...] > > > I: Configuring libtimedate-perl... > > > I: Configuring dpkg-dev... > > > I: Configuring build-essential... > > > I: Base system installed successfully. > > > I: debootstrap finished > > > I: copying local configuration > > > I: Installing apt-lines > > > I: Refreshing the base.tgz > > > I: upgrading packages > > > I: mounting /proc filesystem > > > I: mounting /dev/pts filesystem > > > I: installing dummy policy-rc.d > > > chroot: failed to run command `/usr/bin/apt-get': No such file or > > > directory > > > I: unmounting dev/pts filesystem > > > I: unmounting proc filesystem > > > pbuilder create failed > > > forking: rm -rf /var/cache/pbuilder/base.cow > > > > > > > > > -- System Information: > > > Debian Release: squeeze/sid > > > APT prefers stable > > > APT policy: (700, 'stable'), (650, 'testing'), (600, 'unstable'), (500, > > > 'oldstable'), (1, 'experimental') > > > Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) > > > > > > Kernel: Linux 2.6.32-sonne (SMP w/2 CPU cores; PREEMPT) > > > Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8) > > > Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash > > > > > > Versions of packages cowbuilder depends on: > > > ii cowdancer 0.60 Copy-on-write directory tree > > > utili > > > ii libc6 2.10.2-2 GNU C Library: Shared > > > libraries > > > ii pbuilder 0.194 personal package builder for > > > Debia > > > > > > cowbuilder recommends no packages. > > > > > > cowbuilder suggests no packages. > > > > > > -- no debconf information > > > > > > > > > > Soeren > -- > For the one fact about the future of which we can be certain is that it > will be utterly fantastic. -- Arthur C. Clarke, 1962 > [2 This is a digitally signed message part ] > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: apt is no longer in base system created by debootstrap? (Re: Bug#562143: fails on cowbuilder --create)
On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 05:08:31 +0900 Junichi Uekawa wrote: > It seems like apt is not installed with debootstrap anymore. with or by debootstrap? works for me with plain 'sudo debootstrap sid debian/' I: Retrieving Release I: Retrieving Packages I: Validating Packages I: Resolving dependencies of required packages... I: Resolving dependencies of base packages... I: Found additional required dependencies: dash insserv libdb4.7 I: Found additional base dependencies: libapr1 libaprutil1 libboost-iostreams1.40.0 libdb4.8 libexpat1 liblog4cxx10 libsqlite3-0 libudev0 I: Checking component main on http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian... I: Retrieving libacl1 I: Validating libacl1 I: Retrieving adduser I: Validating adduser I: Retrieving libaprutil1 I: Validating libaprutil1 I: Retrieving libapr1 I: Validating libapr1 I: Retrieving apt-utils I: Validating apt-utils I: Retrieving apt I: Validating apt I: Retrieving aptitude I: Validating aptitude $ dpkg -l debootstrap debootstrap 1.0.20 > And it seems to be staying like this. > > I'm not sure when this happened, but apt used to be > build-essential=yes but now it's not. Priority: important That's usually enough. debootrap/scripts/debian/sid base="$(get_debs Priority: important)" > > > At Wed, 23 Dec 2009 07:15:53 +0100, > > > Soeren Sonnenburg wrote: > > > > > > > > Package: cowbuilder > > > > Version: 0.60 > > > > Severity: grave > > > > > > > > I guess apt is missing ... > > > > > > > > > > > > sudo cowbuilder --create > > > > > > [...] > > > > I: Configuring libtimedate-perl... > > > > I: Configuring dpkg-dev... > > > > I: Configuring build-essential... > > > > I: Base system installed successfully. > > > > I: debootstrap finished > > > > I: copying local configuration > > > > I: Installing apt-lines > > > > I: Refreshing the base.tgz > > > > I: upgrading packages > > > > I: mounting /proc filesystem > > > > I: mounting /dev/pts filesystem > > > > I: installing dummy policy-rc.d > > > > chroot: failed to run command `/usr/bin/apt-get': No such file > > > > or directory I: unmounting dev/pts filesystem > > > > I: unmounting proc filesystem > > > > pbuilder create failed > > > > forking: rm -rf /var/cache/pbuilder/base.cow > > > > > > > > $ sudo chroot debian/ apt-get update Get:1 http://ftp.us.debian.org sid Release.gpg [835B] Hit http://ftp.us.debian.org sid Release Get:2 http://ftp.us.debian.org sid/main Packages/DiffIndex [2038B] Fetched 2873B in 1s (1599B/s) Reading package lists... Done Not sure what codebuilder / pbuilder is doing otherwise but default debootstrap seems OK. -- Neil Williams = http://www.data-freedom.org/ http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/ http://e-mail.is-not-s.ms/ pgpMIKrEg0LCO.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: apt is no longer in base system created by debootstrap? (Re: Bug#562143: fails on cowbuilder --create)
Junichi Uekawa wrote: > > It seems like apt is not installed with debootstrap anymore. > And it seems to be staying like this. > > I'm not sure when this happened, but apt used to be > build-essential=yes but now it's not. Are you saying that build-essential=yes was still in use? It also looks very strange to me that apt would be part of the build essential set as it is not essential nor needed for building packages. The mention of base system in the below log is also suboptimal as that has a specified meaning which is based on the priority of the packages installed. Note that the build essential set is not directly related to priorities of packages... Cheers Luk > At Wed, 23 Dec 2009 07:53:54 +0100, > Soeren Sonnenburg wrote: >> [1 ] >> On Wed, 2009-12-23 at 15:28 +0900, Junichi Uekawa wrote: >>> Sounds like a bug for debootstrap, no? >> Indeed! >> >>> At Wed, 23 Dec 2009 07:15:53 +0100, >>> Soeren Sonnenburg wrote: Package: cowbuilder Version: 0.60 Severity: grave I guess apt is missing ... sudo cowbuilder --create >> [...] I: Configuring libtimedate-perl... I: Configuring dpkg-dev... I: Configuring build-essential... I: Base system installed successfully. I: debootstrap finished I: copying local configuration I: Installing apt-lines I: Refreshing the base.tgz I: upgrading packages I: mounting /proc filesystem I: mounting /dev/pts filesystem I: installing dummy policy-rc.d chroot: failed to run command `/usr/bin/apt-get': No such file or directory I: unmounting dev/pts filesystem I: unmounting proc filesystem pbuilder create failed forking: rm -rf /var/cache/pbuilder/base.cow -- System Information: Debian Release: squeeze/sid APT prefers stable APT policy: (700, 'stable'), (650, 'testing'), (600, 'unstable'), (500, 'oldstable'), (1, 'experimental') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) Kernel: Linux 2.6.32-sonne (SMP w/2 CPU cores; PREEMPT) Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash Versions of packages cowbuilder depends on: ii cowdancer 0.60 Copy-on-write directory tree utili ii libc6 2.10.2-2 GNU C Library: Shared libraries ii pbuilder 0.194 personal package builder for Debia cowbuilder recommends no packages. cowbuilder suggests no packages. -- no debconf information >> Soeren >> -- >> For the one fact about the future of which we can be certain is that it >> will be utterly fantastic. -- Arthur C. Clarke, 1962 >> [2 This is a digitally signed message part > (7bit)>] >> > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: apt is no longer in base system created by debootstrap? (Re: Bug#562143: fails on cowbuilder --create)
On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 23:43:44 +0100, Luk Claes wrote: > Junichi Uekawa wrote: > > > > It seems like apt is not installed with debootstrap anymore. > > And it seems to be staying like this. > > > > I'm not sure when this happened, but apt used to be > > build-essential=yes but now it's not. > > Are you saying that build-essential=yes was still in use? > Are you saying people didn't check debootstrap before breaking it? elif doing_variant buildd || doing_variant scratchbox; then base="$(get_debs Build-Essential: yes)" Cheers, Julien -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: apt is no longer in base system created by debootstrap? (Re: Bug#562143: fails on cowbuilder --create)
Julien Cristau wrote: > On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 23:43:44 +0100, Luk Claes wrote: > >> Junichi Uekawa wrote: >>> It seems like apt is not installed with debootstrap anymore. >>> And it seems to be staying like this. >>> >>> I'm not sure when this happened, but apt used to be >>> build-essential=yes but now it's not. >> Are you saying that build-essential=yes was still in use? >> > Are you saying people didn't check debootstrap before breaking it? AFAIK it was checked with running debootstrap which still works as expected except for the new variants... > elif doing_variant buildd || doing_variant scratchbox; then > base="$(get_debs Build-Essential: yes)" So these variants introduced a dependency on something that was not documented or guaranteed in the first place. Though I guess the code surrounding it can give us a clue on how to fix it without reintroducing a hack that is not guaranteed to work. Cheers Luk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: apt is no longer in base system created by debootstrap? (Re: Bug#562143: fails on cowbuilder --create)
On 2009-12-26, Luk Claes wrote: > Julien Cristau wrote: >> On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 23:43:44 +0100, Luk Claes wrote: >>> Junichi Uekawa wrote: It seems like apt is not installed with debootstrap anymore. And it seems to be staying like this. I'm not sure when this happened, but apt used to be build-essential=yes but now it's not. >>> Are you saying that build-essential=yes was still in use? >> Are you saying people didn't check debootstrap before breaking it? > AFAIK it was checked with running debootstrap which still works as > expected except for the new variants... > >> elif doing_variant buildd || doing_variant scratchbox; then >> base="$(get_debs Build-Essential: yes)" Except that variant buildd isn't exactly "new" but instead in widespread use. Kind regards, Philipp Kern -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Bug#562697: RFA: dpatch -- Debian patch management system
Package: wnpp
Severity: normal
I have lost interest in this package, and I don't think the other
co-maintainers have contributed at all in the past few years.
This package is still widely used, and I think this deserves better
looking-after.
I'm asking for adoption of dpatch package.
regards,
junichi
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dan...@{netfort.gr.jp,debian.org}
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Re: package hierarchy system
Le Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 04:02:27AM +0300, Ivan Borzenkov a écrit : > > Examples > > amarok (parent:-, application) > amarok-common (parent:amapok, hide) > amarok-utils (parent:amapok, hide) > > amarok > --- > psi-plis (parent:-, application) > psi-plis-plugins (parent:psi-plis, mod) > psimedia (parent:psi-plis, mod) > > psi-plis > - psi-plis-plugins > - psimedia > --- Dear Ivan, it seems that what you seek can be achieved by improving the support for meta-packages instead. See for instance http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep6/ and the recent disussion on this list. Have a nice day, -- Charles Plessy Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
