Re: Two proposals for a better Lenny (testing related).

[Lucas Nussbaum]

On 14/06/07 at 08:31 +0200, Frank Küster wrote:
> Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I think that a package that has been in unstable for a whole release
> > cycle without entering testing should probably live in experimental or
> > not in Debian at all. I guess that is something most people can agree
> > on.
> 
> Hm, I was tempted to think "yes, of course", but how about foo-snapshot
> or bar-cvs?  Why shouldn't they be in unstable, autobuilt

I think that such packages are OK in unstable, but some might argue that
they should go in experimental.

> and available as Build-Depends for baz-bzr?

That's dangerous. baz-bzr will be allowed to transition to testing
(b-deps are not considered for testing transition), but won't be able to
build from source in testing, which is RC.
 
I'm working on analyzing snapshot.d.n data to get an accurate list of
"when was package X last in testing ?".
-- 
| Lucas Nussbaum
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/ |
| jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG: 1024D/023B3F4F |


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Re: Two proposals for a better Lenny (testing related).

[Raphael Hertzog]

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007, Felipe Sateler wrote:
> > PS: I do agree that it would be nice if there was a way to automatically
> > bring in the modules you are using for the new version, or at least warn,
> > but I can't seem to figure out a nice and elegant way of doing that. And
> > no, more people using testing won't fix this issue either.
> 
> It's not that complicated if we have the new "Breaks" field. I just
> submitted my suggestion on the package linux-latest-2.6.

For reference, it's bug #428783.

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog

Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux :
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Re: Two proposals for a better Lenny (testing related).

[Frank Küster]

Lucas Nussbaum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Hm, I was tempted to think "yes, of course", but how about foo-snapshot
>> or bar-cvs?  Why shouldn't they be in unstable, autobuilt
>
> I think that such packages are OK in unstable, but some might argue that
> they should go in experimental.
>
>> and available as Build-Depends for baz-bzr?
>
> That's dangerous. baz-bzr will be allowed to transition to testing
> (b-deps are not considered for testing transition), but won't be able to
> build from source in testing, which is RC.

No, I don't think that's a problem.  Packages which are just regular
unreleased checkouts of some version control system should have a "not
for release" dummy RC bug anyway.

Regards, Frank
-- 
Frank Küster
Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich
Debian Developer (teTeX/TeXLive)

Status of circular dependencies in Sid

[Bill Allombert]

Hello Debian developers,

Here the lists of packages involved in circular dependencies listed by
maintainers.

This list is also available at

(updated daily, courtesy of Robert Lemmen).

A list of dependencies including dependency graphs is available at


The list of bug I reported so far is there:


Cheers,
Bill.

Adeodato Simó <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
amarok
amarok-engines
amarok-xine

Alastair McKinstry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
console-common

Andrew Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
phpgroupware
phpgroupware-admin
phpgroupware-phpgwapi
phpgroupware-preferences
phpgroupware-setup

Anton Zinoviev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
console-terminus

Bernd Schumacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
bootcd
bootcd-hppa
bootcd-i386
bootcd-ia64

Brendan O'Dea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
perl
perl-modules

Carlo Contavalli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wipl-client-exec
wipl-client-standard
wipl-daemon

Christian T. Steigies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
luola
luola-data
luola-levels

Christoph Berg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
libyada-mysql4
libyada-pgsql4
libyada-sqlite3-4
libyada4

Console utilities maintainers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
console-setup
kbd

Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
heroes-common
heroes-ggi
heroes-sdl
lbreakout2
lbreakout2-data

Dave Beckett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
libcairo2

David Coe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
iamerican
ispell

Debconf Developers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
debconf
debconf-english
debconf-i18n

Debian GCC Maintainers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
g++-3.3
g++-3.4
g++-4.1
g++-4.2
gcj-4.1
libgcc1
libgcj7-dev
libstdc++5-3.3-dev
libstdc++6-4.1-dev
libstdc++6-4.2-dev
libstdc++6-dev

Debian GCC maintainers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
g++-2.95
libstdc++2.10-dev

Debian GGZ Maintainers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ggz-gtk-games
ggz-gtk-games-data
ggz-kde-games
ggz-kde-games-data
ggz-sdl-games
ggz-sdl-games-data

Debian GNOME Maintainers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
libbonobo2-0
libbonobo2-common

Debian Games Team <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
abuse
abuse-frabs
abuse-lib

Debian Install System Team <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cdebconf
tasksel
tasksel-data

Debian Italian Maintainers Task Force <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
festlex-ifd
festvox-italp16k
festvox-itapc16k

Debian Java Maintainers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
antlr
gjdoc
kaffe
kaffe-jthreads
kaffe-pthreads
libbcel-java
liblog4j1.2-java
libmx4j-java
libregexp-java

Debian Mono Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
libgnome2.0-cil
libgtkhtml2.0-cil
libmono-security2.0-cil
libmono-system2.0-cil

Debian OpenOffice Team <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
openoffice.org-common
openoffice.org-style-andromeda

Debian QA Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
caudium
caudium-modules
gnome-bin
gnome-libs-data
libgnome32
libgnomesupport0
libgnomeui32
libgnorba27
playground
playground-plugin-xmms

Debian Scientific Computing Team <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
libcv-dev
libcvaux-dev
libhighgui-dev

Debian X Strike Force <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
libx11-dev
libxext-dev
libxft2
xserver-xorg
xserver-xorg-core
xserver-xorg-input-all
xserver-xorg-input-evdev
xserver-xorg-input-kbd
xserver-xorg-input-mouse
xserver-xorg-input-synaptics
xserver-xorg-video-all
xserver-xorg-video-apm
xserver-xorg-video-ark
xserver-xorg-video-ati
xserver-xorg-video-chips
xserver-xorg-video-cirrus
xserver-xorg-video-cyrix
xserver-xorg-video-dummy
xserver-xorg-video-fbdev
xserver-xorg-video-glint
xserver-xorg-video-i128
xserver-xorg-video-i740
xserver-xorg-video-i810
xserver-xorg-video-i810-modesetting
xserver-xorg-video-imstt
xserver-xorg-video-intel
xserver-xorg-video-mga
xserver-xorg-video-neomagic
xserver-xorg-video-newport
xserver-xorg-video-nsc
xserver-xorg-video-nv
xserver-xorg-video-rendition
xserver-xorg-video-s3
xserver-xorg-video-s3virge
xserver-xorg-video-savage
xserver-xorg-video-siliconmotion
xserver-xorg-video-sis
xserver-xorg-video-sisusb
xserver-xorg-video-tdfx
xserver-xorg-video-tga
xserver-xorg-video-

Re: How to package software with binaries in tarball?

[Steinar H. Gunderson]

On Thu, Jun 14, 2007 at 06:57:10AM +0400, Sergei Golovan wrote:
> Is get-orig-source target in debian/rules, which fetches and repacks
> orig.tar.gz sufficient? I guess it should be.

Sure, if debian/copyright mentions it. debian/copyright is _always_ the
canonical place for “where does this .orig.tar.gz come from”.

/* Steinar */
-- 
Homepage: http://www.sesse.net/


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Re: Using standardized SI prefixes

[Gabor Gombas]

On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 08:45:13PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:

> The meaning of 1 TB is approximate only for approximate people. I'd
> expect more rigor from people working in computer science (if we can
> call it a science).

... and since most Debian users are not computer scientists, Scott is
right.

Yesterday my collegue asked me how much storage a server has that we
bought from some project money, and he had to write a report. When I
told him "931 MiB", he said "No, I want a number like 1T or 2T" (and he
has an IT degree, although not CS in the strict sense). That's how
people think, and if you do not acknowledge that, you're living outside
of reality.

Gabor

-- 
 -
 MTA SZTAKI Computer and Automation Research Institute
Hungarian Academy of Sciences
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Re: Using standardized SI prefixes

[Josselin Mouette]

Le jeudi 14 juin 2007 à 12:15 +0200, Gabor Gombas a écrit :
> On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 08:45:13PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> 
> > The meaning of 1 TB is approximate only for approximate people. I'd
> > expect more rigor from people working in computer science (if we can
> > call it a science).
> 
> ... and since most Debian users are not computer scientists, Scott is
> right.
> 
> Yesterday my collegue asked me how much storage a server has that we
> bought from some project money, and he had to write a report. When I
> told him "931 MiB", he said "No, I want a number like 1T or 2T" (and he
> has an IT degree, although not CS in the strict sense). That's how
> people think, and if you do not acknowledge that, you're living outside
> of reality.

I don't know who told you he always needs precision, but it wasn't me.
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2007/06/msg00589.html

(The answer to all of your nonsense is already in this post, no need to
repeat myself.)
-- 
 .''`.
: :' :  We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code.
`. `'   We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
  `-our own. Resistance is futile.

O: xscreensaver -- is now orphaned

[Ralf Hildebrandt]

FYI:

- Forwarded message from Raphael Hertzog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -

From: Raphael Hertzog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 12:40:26 +0200
To: Ralf Hildebrandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Bug#428798: xscreensaver: New upstream version available

Hi Ralf,

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> I'd like to orphan the package since I cannot find the time to
> maintain it anymore. What is the process for this?

Please see 
http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-pkgs.en.html#s-orphaning

I'd suggest to mail debian-devel to find out a new maintainer as this
package is quite important and heavily used.

And thanks again for all your work!

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog

Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux :
http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/

- End forwarded message -

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Charite - Universitätsmedizin BerlinTel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-BerlinFax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBFsend no mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Bug#428813: O: xscreensaver

[Ralf Hildebrandt]

Package: wnpp
Severity: normal


I'd like to orphan the package since I cannot find the time to
maintain it anymore.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (990, 'testing'), (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.21.4 (SMP w/4 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash


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Re: Two proposals for a better Lenny (testing related).

[Emanuele Rocca]

* Luis Matos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [2007-06-14  1:14 +0100]:
>  Qui, 2007-06-14 às 01:04 +0200, Emanuele Rocca escreveu:
>  > Another option could be calling each snapshot cut -MM, or cut
>  > -MM-DD if we plan to release them more than once per month.
>  
>  this makes the snapshots just like the current ones (i think cd sets are
>  built weekly r monthly, can anyone confirm this?)

They're built weekly, see http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/

I don't think that we should release a snapshot of CUT each and every
month. My suggestion was just to use months rather than numbers to refer
to CUT snapshots, but keeping the "when it's ready" philosophy and all
the other points of Joey's proposal:
http://kitenet.net/~joey/code/debian/cut/

ciao,
ema


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Re: How to package software with binaries in tarball?

[Adeodato Simó]

* Steinar H. Gunderson [Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:46:08 +0200]:

> On Thu, Jun 14, 2007 at 06:57:10AM +0400, Sergei Golovan wrote:
> > Is get-orig-source target in debian/rules, which fetches and repacks
> > orig.tar.gz sufficient? I guess it should be.

> Sure, if debian/copyright mentions it. debian/copyright is _always_ the
> canonical place for “where does this .orig.tar.gz come from”.

Note that Developers Reference recommends README.Debian-source, though
it says "or similar file". Section 6.7.8.2:

  
http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.en.html#s-bpp-origtargz

Cheers,

-- 
Adeodato Simó dato at net.com.org.es
Debian Developer  adeodato at debian.org
 
Hay quien sueña con la alquimia
que haga del vicio virtud
-- Luis Eduardo Aute, Giraluna


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Re: Two proposals for a better Lenny (testing related).

[Luis Matos]

Qua, 2007-06-13 às 20:27 -0400, Felipe Sateler escreveu:
> Luis Matos wrote:
> 
> > Qua, 2007-06-13 às 18:09 -0400, Felipe Sateler escreveu:
> >> Installing a newer kernel is not an upgrade, in a sense. You are
> >> installing new software alongside the old one. Thus the usual
> >> expectations don't hold.
> > 
> > the usual expectation that i have with a new kernel is to improve my
> > operating system ... that includes no regressions on supporting my
> > hardware - for example, wifi or graphic card.
> 
> But it doesn't hold, since you are actually installing a _new_ package, not
> upgrading an existing.

basically that is not true. Imagining  moving system like CUT (testing)
you must predict these issues. It is a New package, but one that can
make the system unusable (or parts of it).

> 
> > 
> >> 
> >> PS: I do agree that it would be nice if there was a way to automatically
> >> bring in the modules you are using for the new version, or at least warn,
> >> but I can't seem to figure out a nice and elegant way of doing that. And
> >> no, more people using testing won't fix this issue either.
> > 
> > what about checking the *-modules-2.6.A packages available and compare
> > them with the previous version?
> 
> That would live everyone waiting for the every module to be ready, of which
> they may not be using some.

true ... and if unstable has a low priority than testing, users ould
fetch that from unstable easily. But, if testing is *always* usable,
then it has to be that way.
> > 
> > if the count of both are equal, then kernel *and* modules can go into
> > testing. If, for some reason a module is not available or cannot migrate
> > into testing, kernel would not migrate.
> 
> Note that independent of wether modules are in testing or not, upgrading a
> kernel *won't* install the modules (out of tree modules, that is). You
> still have to install them by hand. That is what I was referring to.

not true. there are meta pckages that do that for me.
kernel has linux-image-2.6-k8 (for example), modules have
name-module-2.6-k8 .

when an new kernel is uploaded, it is upgrade because there is a new
meta package. the same way, if there is  new module meta package, then,
the modules will be upgraded. the problem here is that the kernel meta
package is upgraded *but* because there is no modules meta package,
those are not upgraded.
I think i am not mistaken.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
>   Felipe Sateler
> 
> 
Luis Matos


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Re: Two proposals for a better Lenny (testing related).

[Luis Matos]

Qua, 2007-06-13 às 17:49 -0700, Steve Langasek escreveu:
> On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 05:32:01PM +0100, Luis Matos wrote:
> > > > > Um, no.  That does not happen automatically.  In rare cases it happens
> > > > > because the release team has overridden the installability check for a
> > > > > package, because maintainers have not coordinated their transitions in
> > > > > unstable and as a result something needs to be broken to ever get any 
> > > > > of the
> > > > > packages updated because you can't get 300 maintainers to get their 
> > > > > packages
> > > > > in a releasable state *and* leave them alone long enough to 
> > > > > transition to
> > > > > testing as a group.
> 
> > > > So please, don't do those "oh, let them pass" transitions ... they BREAK
> > > > stuff ... for real.
> 
> > > What?
> > Some packages are allowed to pass into testing even if other depends on
> > it, but has issues that will take some time to resolve. This will make
> > that that package, that is now in testing, will not be installable in
> > anyway. This happens sometimes.
> 
> Well, tough.  Take it up with the maintainers who don't coordinate their
> uploads to unstable with the maintainers of related packages.  The release
> team only breaks packages in testing when we *have* to do so to move the
> release forward (meaning, a net reduction in RC problems).
i am not blaming the Release Team <--- for real.
I just want that automatic passages from unstable for testing, when
debian is not in a pre-stable-release state have more verifications such
as reverse depends.
> 
> > > > > That's a problem of the packaging of those kernel modules, then, not a
> > > > > problem of testing per se; even if you track stable and therefore the
> > > > > problem only affects you once every two years, it's still a problem 
> > > > > that
> > > > > should be addressed -- e.g., with metapackages like 
> > > > > nvidia-kernel-2.6-686
> > > > > (oh look, this one already exists).
> 
> > > > kernel upgrades from 2.6.50 to 2.6.51 ... nvidia packages don't build in
> > > > time (they are not free, right?) ... kernel passes to testing ...
> 
> > > That doesn't happen.
> 
> > well ... it happened to me before etch was released ... in such a way
> > that i gave up using them.
> 
> No.  The nvidia kernel packages are a particular case where the module
> packages were willfully broken in testing by the release team because of
> long-outstanding RC bugs in related nvidia packages.
> 
> Again, this was a necessary trade-off which reduced the overall number of
> release-critical problems in testing.
i am generally speaking ... the nvidia package was an example that
occurred to me (and i stop using it since then). Other problems like
that happened to me.
> 
> > > > this is a simple upgrade ... because kernel packages are always NEW, the
> > > > kernel will pass because it has no reverse dependency problems in
> > > > testing.
> 
> > > False.
> > true.
> 
> > nvidia-kernel  (meta packge) depends on linux-image-2.6.10.
> 
> > a new linux-image-2.6.20 passes to testing. The new nvidia-kernel did
> > not pass because it is too young.
> 
> You either don't know how testing works, or you don't know how the Debian
> kernel packages are structured.
I think i know (i let the space open for the uncertain).
And the kernel packages was an example on how things can be broken in
testing and give ideas to prevent them to have CUT (Constantly Usable
Testing).

> 
> -- 
> Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
> Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.debian.org/
> 
> 


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Re: Two proposals for a better Lenny (testing related).

[Luis Matos]

Qui, 2007-06-14 às 13:08 +0200, Emanuele Rocca escreveu:
> * Luis Matos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [2007-06-14  1:14 +0100]:
> >  Qui, 2007-06-14 às 01:04 +0200, Emanuele Rocca escreveu:
> >  > Another option could be calling each snapshot cut -MM, or cut
> >  > -MM-DD if we plan to release them more than once per month.
> >  
> >  this makes the snapshots just like the current ones (i think cd sets are
> >  built weekly r monthly, can anyone confirm this?)
> 
> They're built weekly, see http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/
> 
> I don't think that we should release a snapshot of CUT each and every
> month. 
i fully agree ... 
> My suggestion was just to use months rather than numbers to refer
> to CUT snapshots, but keeping the "when it's ready" philosophy and all
> the other points of Joey's proposal:
> http://kitenet.net/~joey/code/debian/cut/
> 

agreed.
> ciao,
> ema
> 
> 


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SPBrasil.TV - Seu amigo(a) lhe-envio um convite para participar do SPBrasil.TV

[SPBrasil.TV]

:

Seu amigo(a) lhe-envio um convite para participar do SPBrasil.TV

Para se cadastrar clique no link abaixo.


Obrigado.

SPBrasil.TV.

Re: Using standardized SI prefixes

[David Verhasselt]

Perhaps transforming it into a localization problem would do the trick. 
This way, users would be able to set their preference on byte-count in 
the same place as their preference on currency, decimal, and am/pm vs 
24h. Applications could make use of the localization settings to 
calculate the amount of bytes, which would hopefully eventually 
centralize and generalize what counting-method the user sees.


David Verhasselt


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Re: Using standardized SI prefixes

[David Verhasselt]

Perhaps transforming it into a localization problem would do the trick.
This way, users would be able to set their preference on byte-count in
the same place as their preference on currency, decimal, and am/pm vs
24h. Applications could make use of the localization settings to
calculate the amount of bytes, which would hopefully eventually
centralize and generalize what counting-method the user sees.

David Verhasselt


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Re: Using standardized SI prefixes

[Ivan Jager]

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007, Ben Finney wrote:

Ivan Jager <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


On Wed, 13 Jun 2007, Alex Jones wrote:

1 TB is not rounded. It means precisely 1 × 10^12 bytes, no more
and no less. If they want to actually put 1.024 TB on the disk
then they can say 1 TB (approx.) like any other industry
(detergent, bacon, etc.).


1 TB has only one significant digit. It would be silly to think that
it was an exact measurement, at least in fields I am familiar
with. ;) No one I know would think 1km is as precisely measured as
1.0km.


The difference being that digital specifications for things like
storage capacity and memory are not measured. They are calculated, and
in those contexts they *are* precise.

Rounding can be done after the calculated number is obtained, but it's
not inherent in the process of obtaining the number the way that
measuring "1 km" or "1 tablespoon" is.

Since we *can* give a perfectly precise quantity of bytes and other
digital phenomena, and often do, this is even more reason to use the
precise meaning of the units for those quantities.


Ok, so this applies to dd and what else? I guess fdisk kind of counts, 
except even there, while being a specified size rather than measured, the 
size of the partition it creates is still rounded to a whole cylinder.
I'm having trouble thinking of anything where a n00b would be specifying 
sizes with prefixes and expecting it to be exactly a specific size down 
to the byte.



I thought this argument was mostly about measured sizes anyways, such as 
what you would get from ls -lh, df -h, du -h, or their GUI equivalents. 
These are all rounded. Do the GUI equivalents show full precision even 
with prefixes? That seems kind of pointless.


AFAIK we are using precise meanings of the prefixes. They are just 
ambiguous, since they have more than one precise meaning. On computers, 
when measuring units of bytes, I am confused any time someone isn't using 
the binary values. (Although I'm not so surprised when the numbers are 
coming from marketing people.) While 10^9 <> 2**30, I find the later to be 
a much more useful number on a computer.


A few more things I thought of where a user might need to specify a size:
xorg.conf VideoRAM option
mem argument on kernel commandline
mkfs
resize2fs
ping

All of these except for ping want the byte sizes to be divisible by some 
power of two. Because memory comes in powers of two, and disks come in 
multiples of 512 bytes, the powers of two tend to be a lot more useful 
than the powers of ten.


I might be too much of a systems person... Let me know if you can come up 
with examples where you would want to specify byte sizes in powers of 10 
rather than 2.


I am now somewhat tempted to do a small survey asking random people how 
much they think a megabyte is. :)


Ivan

Re: Using standardized SI prefixes

[Ivan Jager]

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007, Wesley J. Landaker wrote:


On Wednesday 13 June 2007 14:03:51 Lionel Elie Mamane wrote:

On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 05:33:12PM -0600, Wesley J. Landaker wrote:

Even in the US all legitimate science and engineering is done in SI
units.


Suurre... That's why in 1999 the NASA Mars orbiter didn't crash
because one (NASA) team worked in metric units and the other (private
contractor) in imperial units.


I am happy to very brutally assert that the team who didn't use SI was not
doing legitimate science or engineering. But whether it's from unskilled
employees or bad management, it's quite unfortunate. =(


Over here we have two sieres of intro physics courses. One is for science 
students, and the other is for engineers. Guess what the biggest 
difference is.


Yes, I know it's sad, but apparently engineers need to learn their physics 
in imperial units... :(


Ivan


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Re: Two proposals for a better Lenny (testing related).

[Josselin Mouette]

Le jeudi 14 juin 2007 à 14:33 +0100, Luis Matos a écrit :
> I just want that automatic passages from unstable for testing, when
> debian is not in a pre-stable-release state have more verifications such
> as reverse depends.

I really don't understand what checks you want to add over those already
being done.

-- 
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Re: Using standardized SI prefixes

[Ben Finney]

Ivan Jager <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007, Ben Finney wrote:
> > Since we *can* give a perfectly precise quantity of bytes and
> > other digital phenomena, and often do, this is even more reason to
> > use the precise meaning of the units for those quantities.
>
> Ok, so this applies to dd and what else?

It applies to any software that refers to quantities that use these
units. Pick a unit for the quantity, base-10 or base-2, and use its
precise meaning and the precise term for it.

> I thought this argument was mostly about measured sizes anyways,
> such as what you would get from ls -lh, df -h, du -h, or their GUI
> equivalents. These are all rounded.

Any time the software says "GB" when the quantity was actually
calculated in 2^30, or says "GiB" when the quantity was actually
calculated in 10^9, the units are mismatched. Whether the quantity was
rounded is irrelevant to this fact.

> While 10^9 <> 2**30, I find the later to be a much more useful
> number on a computer.

Nothing in this proposal speaks against using 2^30 bytes as a unit of
measure. The only thing wrong would be to refer to the unit as "GB",
because that isn't 2^30 bytes. The only unambiguous standard
abbreviation for that unit is "GiB".

-- 
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_o__)  |
Ben Finney


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Re: Best practices for cron jobs?

[Mark Brown]

On Wed, Jun 13, 2007 at 08:46:42PM +0200, sean finney wrote:
> On Wednesday 13 June 2007 06:28:09 Duncan Findlay wrote:

> > I imagine it would be relatively simple to have the postinst generate
> > a random time during the day for a cron script to run, but this
> > doesn't work with anacron -- many users would never get updates.

> how would this break anacron?

If you're not using cron.{daily,weekly,whatever} then if the system is
not running at the time the job is due to go off it will not be run by
anacron when the system is next started.

-- 
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Bug#428855: ITP: webkit -- HTML rendering engine library

[Mike Hommey]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Mike Hommey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: webkit
  Version : svn snapshot
  Upstream Author : Apple Computer Inc.
* URL : http://www.webkit.org/
* License : mixed LGPL and BSD
  Programming Lang: C, C++
  Description : HTML rendering engine library

WebKit is an open source web browser engine. WebKit is also the name of
the Mac OS X system framework version of the engine that's used by
Safari, Dashboard, Mail, and many other OS X applications. WebKit's HTML
and JavaScript code began as a branch of the KHTML and KJS libraries
from KDE.

(Note this won't be the long description, it's only a copy/paste of the
beginning of the website, to briefly explain what it will be about)

I would pretty much like, if people is interested, to create a
pkg-webkit maintenance group on alioth. So please, interested people,
contact me.

I will have a useable package in a few days, but it will still need work
in the control and copyright files before being uploaded to sid.

Cheers,

Mike


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Re: Using standardized SI prefixes

[Ben Finney]

David Verhasselt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Perhaps transforming it into a localization problem would do the
> trick.  This way, users would be able to set their preference on
> byte-count in the same place as their preference on currency,
> decimal, and am/pm vs 24h. Applications could make use of the
> localization settings to calculate the amount of bytes, which would
> hopefully eventually centralize and generalize what counting-method
> the user sees.

A GiB is the same in any locale, and has the same display -- "GiB" --
in any locale. Displaying it another way is misleading.

-- 
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Ben Finney


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Re: Two proposals for a better Lenny (testing related).

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

On 6/14/07, Luis Matos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

having a working system *with* only debian *oficial* packages and then
after an upgrade that system stops working properly, i call it a
regression ...

if ... *if* i had used module-assistant to use nvidia graphics (or
camera modules, or wifi, or what else), i would not mind to do that.


Actually, it seems to me the real problem is that when a new kernel is
installed it is immediately used by the bootloader on the next reboot,
without asking.

I explicitly check to see if there's a kernel upgrade and abort if
that's the case, as I do not have the time to sort out the mess before
the next reboot. Ideally, it could just install, without having it
automatically used next time. Then, when I have time and everything is
right, then the bootloader uses the new kernel.

(This is probably possible, I just havn't worked out how yet).

Have a nice day,
--
Martijn van Oosterhout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://svana.org/kleptog/


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Re: Bug#428855: ITP: webkit -- HTML rendering engine library

[Mike Hommey]

On Thu, Jun 14, 2007 at 07:39:37PM +0200, Mike Hommey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: Mike Hommey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> * Package name: webkit
>   Version : svn snapshot
>   Upstream Author : Apple Computer Inc.
> * URL : http://www.webkit.org/
> * License : mixed LGPL and BSD
>   Programming Lang: C, C++
>   Description : HTML rendering engine library
> 
> WebKit is an open source web browser engine. WebKit is also the name of
> the Mac OS X system framework version of the engine that's used by
> Safari, Dashboard, Mail, and many other OS X applications. WebKit's HTML
> and JavaScript code began as a branch of the KHTML and KJS libraries
> from KDE.
> 
> (Note this won't be the long description, it's only a copy/paste of the
> beginning of the website, to briefly explain what it will be about)
> 
> I would pretty much like, if people is interested, to create a
> pkg-webkit maintenance group on alioth. So please, interested people,
> contact me.
> 
> I will have a useable package in a few days, but it will still need work
> in the control and copyright files before being uploaded to sid.

A private reply to this ITP made me realize I didn't specify it: both
the QT and Gtk backend will be provided.

Mike


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Re: Two proposals for a better Lenny (testing related).

[Felipe Sateler]

Luis Matos wrote:

> not true. there are meta pckages that do that for me.
> kernel has linux-image-2.6-k8 (for example), modules have
> name-module-2.6-k8 .

I had forgotten that those existed. I have always installed my modules and
kernels directly. Taking those into account, what you say would happen. 
-- 

  Felipe Sateler


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Re: Two proposals for a better Lenny (testing related).

[Luis Matos]

Qui, 2007-06-14 às 19:18 +0200, Josselin Mouette escreveu:
> Le jeudi 14 juin 2007 à 14:33 +0100, Luis Matos a écrit :
> > I just want that automatic passages from unstable for testing, when
> > debian is not in a pre-stable-release state have more verifications such
> > as reverse depends.
> 
> I really don't understand what checks you want to add over those already
> being done.
> 

I just want to ensure that *ALL* the necessary checks are made when a
package steps into testing so that the package that passes don't break
anything.
I presented here the kernel and kernel modules case, but some other
already happened to me (that cases that we just ... don't upgrade and
forget).

I also would like to have testing *Oficial* snapshots as demonstration
of debian's current state, testing being promoted as bleeding edge
system for home/power users and CUT.

Luis Matos


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Bug#428861: ITP: oreon -- A monitoring solution based on Nagios

[Yann Rouillard]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Yann Rouillard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: oreon
  Version : 1.4
* URL : http://www.oreon-project.org/
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: Php
  Description : A monitoring solution based on Nagios

Quoting the website:
Oreon provide enterprise monitoring based on Nagios core.
It offers a complete tool from administration to reporting/visualisation 
with the most powerful monitoring and alerting engine.  

I intend to package this software for Debian.


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Re: Two proposals for a better Lenny (testing related).

[Luis Matos]

Qui, 2007-06-14 às 20:10 +0200, Martijn van Oosterhout escreveu:
> I explicitly check to see if there's a kernel upgrade and abort if
> that's the case, as I do not have the time to sort out the mess before
> the next reboot. Ideally, it could just install, without having it
> automatically used next time. Then, when I have time and everything is
> right, then the bootloader uses the new kernel. 

i don't think this is a reliable situation.
At first look, a new package version is better than it's last.
If the kernel breaks at boot, the bootloader allows you to boot with the
old kernel as _special_ option.


-- 
Luis Matos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Using standardized SI prefixes

[David Verhasselt]

Ben Finney wrote:

David Verhasselt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

  

Perhaps transforming it into a localization problem would do the
trick.  This way, users would be able to set their preference on
byte-count in the same place as their preference on currency,
decimal, and am/pm vs 24h. Applications could make use of the
localization settings to calculate the amount of bytes, which would
hopefully eventually centralize and generalize what counting-method
the user sees.



A GiB is the same in any locale, and has the same display -- "GiB" --
in any locale. Displaying it another way is misleading.

  
Yes, but the fact is that there are apparently a lot of different 
opinions on what should be used. Therefore why not agree to disagree, 
and let the user decide what they want to use. Make a centralized system 
that converts an arbitrary byte-count to the user's preferred way of 
viewing it. That's where I got the locale analogy from. I know, it's 
probably overkill to create a whole new API for just this, but perhaps 
there is an API where you could add a simple function that does this to. 
Maybe in GTK?


Either way, a centralized system would help stop errorenous usage of 
GiB, GB or Gb.



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Re: Using standardized SI prefixes

[Alex Jones]

On Thu, 2007-06-14 at 20:15 +0200, David Verhasselt wrote:
> Yes, but the fact is that there are apparently a lot of different 
> opinions on what should be used. Therefore why not agree to disagree, 
> and let the user decide what they want to use. Make a centralized system 
> that converts an arbitrary byte-count to the user's preferred way of 
> viewing it. That's where I got the locale analogy from. I know, it's 
> probably overkill to create a whole new API for just this, but perhaps 
> there is an API where you could add a simple function that does this to. 
> Maybe in GTK?
> 
> Either way, a centralized system would help stop errorenous usage of 
> GiB, GB or Gb.

Don't we already do this for °C and °F?
-- 
Alex Jones
http://alex.weej.com/

Re: What happened to Agnula.org (DeMuDi)?

[RalfGesellensetter]

Am Dienstag 09 Januar 2007 08:44 schrieb Nico Golde:
> http://www.agnula.info/ seems to be the new domain.
> Kind regards
> Nico

Hi Nico,

thanks for the information. I cite

"IMPORTANT: The AGNULA/DeMuDi project is at the moment not active and no 
further release of the relevant distribution is currently scheduled. 
The development effort has moved entirely to the Debian Multimedia 
project. Furthermore you might want to refer to this list to get a view 
of similar projects."

URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMultimedia

According to some Videopodcast from Linuxtag Berlin, the main developer 
of Demudi has moved to Studio64, therefore other distributions 
(OpenSuse: JackLab, Ubuntu: Studio) move ahead with multimedia stuff.

Take for instance mma: in Debian we have 0.12, recent release was 1.2, 
so the upstream is much newer.

Just mentioning
Regards
Ralf


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Re: Two proposals for a better Lenny (testing related).

[Andreas Barth]

* Luis Matos ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [070614 20:20]:
> Qui, 2007-06-14 às 19:18 +0200, Josselin Mouette escreveu:
> > Le jeudi 14 juin 2007 à 14:33 +0100, Luis Matos a écrit :
> > > I just want that automatic passages from unstable for testing, when
> > > debian is not in a pre-stable-release state have more verifications such
> > > as reverse depends.
> > 
> > I really don't understand what checks you want to add over those already
> > being done.
> > 
> 
> I just want to ensure that *ALL* the necessary checks are made when a
> package steps into testing so that the package that passes don't break
> anything.
> I presented here the kernel and kernel modules case, but some other
> already happened to me (that cases that we just ... don't upgrade and
> forget).

Actually, they *are* done, unless overriden for good reasons by the
release team (and I can only remember a few such cases in the last
years, not counting removals of broken packages from testing to let a
transition through).


Cheers,
Andi
-- 
  http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/


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Re: Bug#428855: ITP: webkit -- HTML rendering engine library

[Ron Johnson]

On 06/14/07 13:11, Mike Hommey wrote:

On Thu, Jun 14, 2007 at 07:39:37PM +0200, Mike Hommey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Mike Hommey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: webkit
  Version : svn snapshot
  Upstream Author : Apple Computer Inc.
* URL : http://www.webkit.org/
* License : mixed LGPL and BSD
  Programming Lang: C, C++
  Description : HTML rendering engine library

WebKit is an open source web browser engine. WebKit is also the name of
the Mac OS X system framework version of the engine that's used by
Safari, Dashboard, Mail, and many other OS X applications. WebKit's HTML
and JavaScript code began as a branch of the KHTML and KJS libraries
from KDE.

(Note this won't be the long description, it's only a copy/paste of the
beginning of the website, to briefly explain what it will be about)

I would pretty much like, if people is interested, to create a
pkg-webkit maintenance group on alioth. So please, interested people,
contact me.

I will have a useable package in a few days, but it will still need work
in the control and copyright files before being uploaded to sid.


A private reply to this ITP made me realize I didn't specify it: both
the QT and Gtk backend will be provided.


In the same package?  If so, wouldn't that possible pull in packages 
unneeded by the rest of the system?


--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!


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Re: Bug#428855: ITP: webkit -- HTML rendering engine library

[Mike Hommey]

On Thu, Jun 14, 2007 at 03:23:26PM -0500, Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >A private reply to this ITP made me realize I didn't specify it: both
> >the QT and Gtk backend will be provided.
> 
> In the same package?  If so, wouldn't that possible pull in packages 
> unneeded by the rest of the system?

>From the same source package, yes. It will be a multiple binary package,
obviously.

Mike


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Bug#428877: ITP: callweaver -- Community-driven open source PBX software

[Santiago Ruano Rincón]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "Debian VoIP Team" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: callweaver
  Version : 1.2.0~rc4
* URL : http://callweaver.org/
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : Community-driven open source PBX software

CallWeaver is a community-driven vendor-independent cross-platform open
source PBX software project (formerly known as OpenPBX.org). It was
originally derived from Asterisk. Now it supports analog and digital
PSTN telephony, multi-protocol voice over IP telephony, fax,
software-fax, T.38 fax over IP and many telephony applications such as
IVR, conferencing and callcenter queue management.

Features:

 * PSTN connectivities (FXS/FXO, ISDN, PRI, E1, T1)
 * Multi-protocol voice over IP (H.323, IAX2, MGCP and SIP
 * and SCCP)
 * Fax
 * T.38 Fax over IP (pass-through, termination and
 * gateway)
 * IVR
 * Conference
 * Queues
 * Reliability

Callweaver package is already being prepared in the pkg-voip svn.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 4.0
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (990, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-4-686 (SMP w/1 CPU core)
Locale: LANG=es_CO.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=es_CO.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash


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Re: Two proposals for a better Lenny (testing related).

[Steve Langasek]

On Thu, Jun 14, 2007 at 07:18:34PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le jeudi 14 juin 2007 à 14:33 +0100, Luis Matos a écrit :
> > I just want that automatic passages from unstable for testing, when
> > debian is not in a pre-stable-release state have more verifications such
> > as reverse depends.

> I really don't understand what checks you want to add over those already
> being done.

I guess he wants the reverse dependencies to be checked twice.

-- 
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Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.debian.org/


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Re: Two proposals for a better Lenny (testing related).

[Steve Langasek]

On Thu, Jun 14, 2007 at 02:33:32PM +0100, Luis Matos wrote:
> > > > > kernel upgrades from 2.6.50 to 2.6.51 ... nvidia packages don't build 
> > > > > in
> > > > > time (they are not free, right?) ... kernel passes to testing ...

> > > > That doesn't happen.

> > > well ... it happened to me before etch was released ... in such a way
> > > that i gave up using them.

> > No.  The nvidia kernel packages are a particular case where the module
> > packages were willfully broken in testing by the release team because of
> > long-outstanding RC bugs in related nvidia packages.

> > Again, this was a necessary trade-off which reduced the overall number of
> > release-critical problems in testing.
> i am generally speaking ... the nvidia package was an example that
> occurred to me (and i stop using it since then). Other problems like
> that happened to me.

It's an example that does not support your thesis.  I have explained to you
that packages are *not* propagated automatically to testing when they break
the installability of other packages present in testing; that the nvidia
modules packages include metapackages designed to keep the modules in sync
with the kernel; and that the nvidia modules were specifically broken *by
the release team* during the etch release because this was the lesser evil. 
You insist that there need to be more automatic checks for testing, but you
haven't identified any checks that aren't already in place.

-- 
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Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.debian.org/


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Current policy about statically linked binaries

[Vincent Fourmond]

  Hello,

  I recently filed a bug against recoll (#427783) because it was
statically linked against libxapian. Although it is now dynamically
linked and the bug is closed, I wonder if there really is a clear policy
on the subject. I was sure there was bound to be something about this in
the Debian Policy, but it doesn't appear to be so.

  My guess is that there is an unspoken consensus that binaries which
have no reason to do otherwise should be dynamically linked. Am I wrong
? If that really is the case, shouldn't it be written in the policy
(probably as a should rather than a must) ?

  Regards,

Vincent Fourmond

-- 
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http://vincent.fourmond.neuf.fr/
-- pretty boring signature, isn't it ?


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Re: Consequences of the removal of Experimental.

[Marc Haber]

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:07:14 +0200, Pierre Habouzit
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 10:57:17PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
>>  but they would lose the autobuilding from buildd.net.
>
>  which doesn't work properly anyways. The experimental buildd network
>is at best a joke.

Just for the record: exim4 4.67-2, uploaded to experimental, was
promptly built by the buildd network.

btw, please test exim4 4.67-2 ;)

Greetings
Marc

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Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

Re: Two proposals for a better Lenny (testing related).

[Luis Matos]

Qui, 2007-06-14 às 14:40 -0700, Steve Langasek escreveu:
> It's an example that does not support your thesis.  I have explained
> to you
> that packages are *not* propagated automatically to testing when they
> break
> the installability of other packages present in testing; that the
> nvidia
> modules packages include metapackages designed to keep the modules in
> sync
> with the kernel; and that the nvidia modules were specifically broken
> *by
> the release team* during the etch release because this was the lesser
> evil. 
> You insist that there need to be more automatic checks for testing,
> but you
> haven't identified any checks that aren't already in place. 

yes, i failed to show an existing situation ... i no longer use testing.
I know how the passage is done. dependencies are checked.
But, i had issues in the past (etch testing cycle). Since Gustvo raised
the testing problems, i thought i should gave my word has *testing*
user.
You grabbed the nvidia problem ... that was just one. Other was with
xorg and xbase-clients (a newer version of xbase-clients[0] was needed),
when the xorg 7.0 x11-common package entered testing. xorg 7.0 (or
6.9 ... i don't remember) dropped the use of the symlink to /usr/X11/bin
(or other place, i can't remember) ... i even opened a bug [1] (which i
closed a few weeks ago - this was the 6.x to 6.9 transition).

i just want to say that things like these can't happen ... (in this
case, reverse dependencies where ok ... by the way).

[0] http://packages.debian.org/unstable/x11/xbase-clients
[1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=370370


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Re: Two proposals for a better Lenny (testing related).

[Michael Banck]

On Thu, Jun 14, 2007 at 08:10:08PM +0200, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
> Actually, it seems to me the real problem is that when a new kernel is
> installed it is immediately used by the bootloader on the next reboot,
> without asking.

That's because you installed the meta-package, saying "I want to run the
newest kernel without asking".

If you don't want that, don't install the meta-package and install new
kernel versions as they appear.

Also, see Raphael Hertzog's comment about Breaks: which looks very
promising for solving the rest of your issues (unless you install stuff
not using module-assistant or an equivalent)


Michael


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Re: Using standardized SI prefixes

[Ben Finney]

Ben Finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> A GiB is the same in any locale, and has the same display -- "GiB"
> -- in any locale. Displaying it another way is misleading.

I'm informed that this may not be the case. Consider the statement
modified to: "A GiB is the same in any locale, and displaying it as GB
is never correct no matter the locale".

-- 
 \   "A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular."  -- |
  `\ Adlai Ewing Stevenson |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney


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Re: Two proposals for a better Lenny (testing related).

[Felipe Sateler]

Michael Banck wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 14, 2007 at 08:10:08PM +0200, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:
>> Actually, it seems to me the real problem is that when a new kernel is
>> installed it is immediately used by the bootloader on the next reboot,
>> without asking.
> 
> That's because you installed the meta-package, saying "I want to run the
> newest kernel without asking".
> 
> If you don't want that, don't install the meta-package and install new
> kernel versions as they appear.

The behavior Martijn explains is because update-grub doesn't update the
default kernel. This means that if you had a default 0, and the new kernel
gets at the top of the list (which is usually the case), it will get booted
next time


-- 

  Felipe Sateler


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Re: Bug#427297: ITP: sturmbahnfahrer -- simulated obstacle course for automobiles

[Miles Bader]

Klaus Ethgen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> So please calm down and come back to the reality and do not try to see
> nazis in all thinks in the world.

Amen.

I'm reminded of vehement protests over a public official's use of the
word "niggardly"...

-Miles

-- 
`To alcohol!  The cause of, and solution to,
 all of life's problems' --Homer J. Simpson


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[ITH] bioperl

[Charles Plessy]

Dear developpers,

I am preparing an update to the Debian bioperl package, from upstream
version 1.4.0 to 1.5.2. The current maintainer, Matt Hope, is not active
this year. The updated package will be maintained by the Debian-Med
packaging team, and is already in our SVN:

http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/debian-med/trunk/packages/bioperl/trunk/debian/?rev=0&sc=0
http://qa.debian.org/[EMAIL PROTECTED]

For a little bit more information, please see:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-med/2007/06/msg00013.html

Have a nice day,

-- 
Charles Plessy
http://charles.plessy.org
Wako, Saitama, Japan


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Work-needing packages report for Jun 15, 2007

[wnpp]

The following is a listing of packages for which help has been requested
through the WNPP (Work-Needing and Prospective Packages) system in the
last week.

Total number of orphaned packages: 401 (new: 7)
Total number of packages offered up for adoption: 88 (new: 8)
Total number of packages requested help for: 38 (new: 0)

Please refer to http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/ for more information.



The following packages have been orphaned:

   flyspray (#428366), orphaned 3 days ago
 Installations reported by Popcon: 38

   giftui (#428510), orphaned 2 days ago
 Installations reported by Popcon: 131

   gngb (#428511), orphaned 2 days ago
 Installations reported by Popcon: 134

   gnome-breakout (#428485), orphaned 2 days ago
 Installations reported by Popcon: 319

   gnomermind (#428483), orphaned 2 days ago
 Installations reported by Popcon: 382

   gtkatlantic (#428512), orphaned 2 days ago
 Installations reported by Popcon: 106

   oleo (#428174), orphaned 5 days ago
 Description: GNU spreadsheet program
 Installations reported by Popcon: 91

394 older packages have been omitted from this listing, see
http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/orphaned for a complete list.



The following packages have been given up for adoption:

   cryopid (#428739), offered yesterday
 Description: Dumps a process into a self-executing file
 Installations reported by Popcon: 237

   flite (#428168), offered 5 days ago
 Description: A small run-time speech synthesis engine
 Reverse Depends: brltty-flite eflite flite flite1-dev
   speech-dispatcher
 Installations reported by Popcon: 462

   gfontview (#428740), offered yesterday
 Description: font viewer for Type 1 and TrueType fonts
 Installations reported by Popcon: 782

   gtkfontsel (#428738), offered yesterday
 Description: gtk+ font selection utility
 Installations reported by Popcon: 745

   kamefu (#428743), offered yesterday
 Description: KDE All Machine Emulator Frontend For Unix
 Reverse Depends: kamefu libkamefu-dev
 Installations reported by Popcon: 155

   kxgenerator (#428745), offered yesterday
 Description: KDE X Server configuration utility
 Installations reported by Popcon: 163

   retty (#428737), offered yesterday
 Description: attach processes running on other terminals
 Installations reported by Popcon: 101

   smlnj (#428273), offered 4 days ago
 Reverse Depends: libckit-smlnj libcml-smlnj libcmlutil-smlnj
   libexene-smlnj libmlnlffi-smlnj libmlrisctools-smlnj
   libpgraphutil-smlnj libsmlnj-smlnj ml-burg ml-lex (4 more omitted)
 Installations reported by Popcon: 79

80 older packages have been omitted from this listing, see
http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/rfa_bypackage for a complete list.



For the following packages help is requested:

   aboot (#315592), requested 721 days ago
 Description: Alpha bootloader: Looking for co-maintainers
 Reverse Depends: aboot aboot-cross dfsbuild ltsp-client
 Installations reported by Popcon: 110

   apt-build (#365427), requested 411 days ago
 Description: Need new developer(s)
 Installations reported by Popcon: 800

   apt-cacher (#403584), requested 178 days ago
 Description: caching proxy system for Debian package and source
   files
 Installations reported by Popcon: 339

   apt-show-versions (#382026), requested 310 days ago
 Description: lists available package versions with distribution
 Installations reported by Popcon: 2757

   athcool (#278442), requested 961 days ago
 Description: Enable powersaving mode for Athlon/Duron processors
 Installations reported by Popcon: 277

   cdw (#398252), requested 214 days ago
 Description: Tool for burning CD's - console version
 Reverse Depends: cdw gcdw
 Installations reported by Popcon: 244

   cvs (#354176), requested 476 days ago
 Description: Concurrent Versions System
 Reverse Depends: bonsai crossvc cvs-autoreleasedeb cvs-buildpackage
   cvs2cl cvs2html cvschangelogbuilder cvsconnect cvsd cvsdelta (17
   more omitted)
 Installations reported by Popcon: 17787

   dpkg (#282283), requested 936 days ago
 Description: dselect: a user tool to manage Debian packages
 Reverse Depends: alien alsa-source apt-build apt-cross apt-src
   backuppc build-essential bzr-builddeb clamsmtp crosshurd (85 more
   omitted)
 Installations reported by Popcon: 53461

   gentoo (#422498), requested 39 days ago
 Description: a fully GUI-configurable, two-pane X file manager
 Installations reported by Popcon: 267

   gpsdrive (#406522), requested 154 days ago
 Description: Car navigation system
 Installations reported by Popcon: 428

   grub (#24839

Re: Bug#428877: ITP: callweaver -- Community-driven open source PBX software

[Marcus Better]

Santiago Ruano Rincón wrote:
> CallWeaver is a community-driven vendor-independent cross-platform open
> source PBX software project (formerly known as OpenPBX.org). It was
> originally derived from Asterisk. Now it supports analog and digital
> PSTN telephony, multi-protocol voice over IP telephony, fax,

It would be helpful to know how it differs from Asterisk, since Asterisk too
supports many of the features you list.

Marcus



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