Re: Ask yourself some questions

[Scott Dier]

* Yven Leist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [021122 10:43]:
> Y'see Branden, at least the "get rid of Branden's evil jokes" GR would easily 
> be overthrown :-)

/me notes that he is generally laughing out loud at most of them.

Sadly, my coworkers think I'm going insane rather than laughing at a
good joke. :)  Talking to the monitor can't help that too much either...

-- 
Scott Dier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> KC0OBS http://www.ringworld.org/

"Many voters assume that their political leaders are hard at work on
these issues. They are not."
  _Editorial: Time to choose / Who will deliver on transportation?_
 http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/3367890.html

Re: Bug#170069: ITP: grunt -- Secure remote execution via UUCP or e-mail using GPG

[Branden Robinson]

On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 12:36:13AM +0100, Bernd Eckenfels wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 10:31:46AM +1100, Brian May wrote:
> > You need to keep track (at both ends of the link) of the last
> > sequence number sent.
> 
> can we perhaps set up a mailinglist or discuss this on the mailinglist of
> grunt, it realy gets offtopic.

Yeah, God forbid we talk about development on debian-DEVEL, instead of
removing non-free or the cost of IDE vs. SCSI hard drives.

-- 
G. Branden Robinson| Don't use nuclear weapons to
Debian GNU/Linux   | troubleshoot faults.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- US Air Force Instruction 91-111
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ |


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Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

[Thomas Zimmerman]

On Sat, 23 Nov 2002 19:37:02 +
Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
> Turning on IDE DMA is a performance improvement of around a factor of
> 6-10 (2-3Mb/sec -> 25-40Mb/sec), for disk-bound operations. You can
> get *more* than a 6-times improvement in performance?

Well, no. But then, I've not had to do anything other then use a 2.4
kernel to get IDE DMA. But most desktop work is letency based and using
a kernel with the low latency patch and preempt cuts max latency by
about 6 times based on some workloads ( 600ms --> 20ms ).

> 
> > Under
> > debian's X/glibc/kde I can't move windows with contents without
> > 'tearing.'
> 
> Something is seriously wrong, most likely with your display
> driver. You should be able to achieve this on a 486, albeit at a lower
> resolution.

Yep. I was using the "nv" driver from then woody's X. I blows chunks.
The non-free "Nvidia" driver works fine but taints the kernel (and
causes random crashes sometimes.) I would bet that debian's "nv" driver
has gotten much better over time as newer X versions move into testing. 
 
> > X is CPU bound if you can't
> > move windows smoothly because it has latency that is too high.
> 
> Moving windows around is a memory-to-framebuffer-throughput-bound
> operation, not a CPU-bound one (unless your processor is really slow
> and your resolution is absurdly high).

Even with DRI, moving a window about over mozilla peged my 1GhZ duron.
Well, I guess 1600x1400 is absurdly high, but I like how the fonts look
(even the non-true type ones.) 

Thomas


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Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

[Michael Cardenas]

On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 06:37:16PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
> On Wed, 2002-11-20 at 14:07, Michael Cardenas wrote:
> 
> > I have to admit, I sure would love to have gnome2. Last time I tried
> > to install my machine, the upgrade scripts failed miserably,
> 
> I don't understand why people are so quick to report bugs about typos in
> my package descriptions, but don't report bugs in the GNOME 2 transition
> scripts, and instead complain on the lists.  
> 
> Could you please tar up your ~/.gnome directory, along with a copy of
> ~/.gnome2/debian-upgrade.log (it may actually be in
> ~/.gnome2.debian-backup or so), and post a bug report with a URL to your
> tarball to [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Thanks.
> 

Posting now, but the bug is this:

running: gconftool-2 -t string -s /desktop/gnome/background/picture_filename 
/mnt/c/Program Files/Canon/ZoomBrowser EX/Image Library One/frisco - 
10-11-2002/113-1339_IMG.JPG
Error on option -: unknown option.
Run 'gconftool-2 --help' to see a full list of available command line options.

my desktop image filename has spaces in it. nothing a well placed
quotation mark can't handle. 

Sorry I didn't report it, I didn't know how to get any useful data
from the failure. Maybe a debconf info dialog about where the log is
located and what to do incase of failure is in order. 

-- 
michael cardenas   | lead software engineer, lindows.com
hyperpoem.net  | GNU/Linux software developer
people.debian.org/~mbc | encrypted email preferred

"The morning after the storm;
   The melons alone
 Know nothing of it."
- Sodo


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Re: a new home for debian-installer

[Michael Cardenas]

On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 06:57:45PM +0100, Mateusz Papiernik wrote:
> >   Why not http://www.debian.org/devel, under "Projects"?
> You're right! D-I is (I think?) official, and important project, and it
> should have homepage in debian.org, not in "something people" on
> people.d.o. Am I right?
> 

So should we do this? Who would I speak to about that? 

Also, does anyone want to volunteer to translate the page for me?
Tollef, want to do the german?

-- 
michael cardenas   | lead software engineer, lindows.com
hyperpoem.net  | GNU/Linux software developer
people.debian.org/~mbc | encrypted email preferred

"Try and be a sheet of paper with nothing on it. Be a spot on the ground where 
nothing is growing, where something might be planted, a seed possibly, from the 
Absolute."
- Rumi


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Re: Throwing out random thoughts about the whole non-free imbraglio

[Junichi Uekawa]

> > * Abandon non-free entirely, but have SPI sponsor a apt-gettable server 
> > (third-party.debian.org) for third-party developers to put .deb packages 
> > on.  
> I'd already raised this possibility before (moving non-free out of Debian
> but to some other SPI project).  It doesn't have to be third-party
> developers; it could be Debian developers.  I don't think it should use
> debian.org if it's not a Debian project.  Nothing in my proposed GR would
> prohibit this.

What is annoying is that by producing this, who would benefit ?

Many scripts are hardcoded with the location of non-free etc.


regards,
junichi

Re: Throwing out random thoughts about the whole non-free imbraglio

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 08:34:19AM -0600, John Goerzen wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:25:23AM -0500, Nathanael Nerode wrote:
> > would be a positive improvement over the status quo); I wonder what Debian 
> > developers who support non-free think of these ideas?
> 
> It must feel good to totally ignore a large chunk of Debian developers.

Actually John, you and Branden seem to be about the only people posting in
support of the GR. No doubt there are others who agree, but what makes
you think there are so many?


Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: a new home for debian-installer

[Tollef Fog Heen]

* Michael Cardenas 

| So should we do this? Who would I speak to about that? 

ask on -www to be added to the webwml group.

| Also, does anyone want to volunteer to translate the page for me?
| Tollef, want to do the german?

Since I'm a Norwegian and not a German, I'd prefer not to. ;)  My
German is quite rusty.

-- 
Tollef Fog Heen,''`.
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are  : :' :
  `. `' 
`-  

Re: a new home for debian-installer

[Mateusz Papiernik]

> Since I'm a Norwegian and not a German, I'd prefer not to. ;)  My
> German is quite rusty.
If it will only the page, which is now, I can translate it into Polish,
but I haven't debian-account yet. 

btw, official debian polish translator AFAIR is porridge?


-- 
Mati ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Sounds like a Windows problem, try calling Microsoft support

Re: debian-installer status 2002-11-22

[Rob Bradford]

On Fri, 2002-11-22 at 16:16, Samuli Suonpaa wrote:
> Tollef Fog Heen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > EVMS support has been added.. I played with it a little, but it was
> > broken because it was compiled with readline support, while no
> > readline libraries were in the archive.  I've just played around with
> > it a bit more, and it looks like it needs some more work before it
> > will work properly, but EVMS sure looks promising.
> 
> Are you aware of the fact that EVMS will not be included in Linux
> kernel? Please consider using LVM2/DM instead.

Although the EVMS kernel side support will not be included in the 2.6.x
series. The EVMS user space tools (which are considered to be superior
to LVM2/DM2) are being adapted for LVM2/DM. Hence developing an EVMS
module is good, as in the short term we get to use a good logical volume
manager with 2.4 but in the longer term this can be quickly and easily
adapted to LVM2 + EVMS frontend. Reducing the overall code needed to be
written! Woot!

Regards,

Rob
-- 
Rob 'robster' Bradford
Founder: http://www.debianplanet.org/
Developer: http://www.debian.org/
Monkey with keyboard: http://www.robster.org.uk/

Need access to an Alpha

[Andrew Pollock]

Hi,

I've got a problem with a package I maintain building from source on the 
Alpha architecture.

I'm still going through the NM process, and I believe that once I become a
DD I'll get access to a Debian Project Alpha. In the meantime, does
someone have an Alpha that they can give me temporary access to? I'd like 
to troubleshoot this problem quickly, rather than rolling a new package, 
waiting for sponsor to upload it and then seeing what the Alpha buildd 
does with it, rinsing and repeating.

Thanks

Andrew


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Bug#170472: info: top Info pages of different packages wildly differ

[Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña]

On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 06:18:15AM +0800, Dan Jacobson wrote:
> Package: info
> Version: 4.1-2
> Severity: normal
(..)
> Therefore folks should make top Info nodes with proper headers.
> How about a debian Info pages policy.
> 
Agreed. Please propose content for such a section in the DDP 
policy  which is currently in draft. See
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/ddp-policy/ddp-policy.en.html

Regards

Javi

Re: Bug#170400: ITP: tsclient -- Terminal Server Client - GNOME 2 rdesktop frontend

[Thorsten Sauter]

On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 02:47:36AM +1100, Andrew Lau wrote:
> Package: wnpp
> Version: unavailable; reported 2002-11-24
> Severity: wishlist
> 
> * Package name: tsclient
>   Version : 0.56
>   Upstream Author : Erick Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   Kyle Herbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> * URL : http://www.gnomepro.com/tsclient/
> * License : GPL
>   Description : Terminal Server Client - GNOME 2 rdesktop frontend
> 
> Features:
>   * GNOME panel applet to quickly launch saved rdp files
>   * supports most of the rdesktop-1.1.0 arguments
>   * reads Unicode formatted .rdp files 
>   * writes .rdp files in ASCII
>   * looks and functions very much like the Microsoft client
>   * features an "rdp picker" which lists .rdp files in ~/.tsclient/ and
> launches rdesktop from the rdp file when selected
>   * VNC support as a client only (vncviewer) 
> 

Hi,

thats the same like grdesktop, which was (before the fire) in
the non-us incoming directory.
Please see ITP: #164025.

Bye
Thorsten


-- 
Thorsten Sauter
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

(Is there life after /sbin/halt -p?)



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Re: a new home for debian-installer

[Josip Rodin]

On Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 11:32:47PM -0800, Michael Cardenas wrote:
> > >   Why not http://www.debian.org/devel, under "Projects"?
> > You're right! D-I is (I think?) official, and important project, and it
> > should have homepage in debian.org, not in "something people" on
> > people.d.o. Am I right?
> 
> So should we do this? Who would I speak to about that? 

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> Also, does anyone want to volunteer to translate the page for me?
> Tollef, want to do the german?

If you put it in the main web site, you get like a dozen translations
basically for free. :)

-- 
 2. That which causes joy or happiness.

Re: Need access to an Alpha

[Emile van Bergen]

Hi,

On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 09:04:59PM +1000, Andrew Pollock wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I've got a problem with a package I maintain building from source on the 
> Alpha architecture.
> 
> I'm still going through the NM process, and I believe that once I become a
> DD I'll get access to a Debian Project Alpha. In the meantime, does
> someone have an Alpha that they can give me temporary access to? I'd like 
> to troubleshoot this problem quickly, rather than rolling a new package, 
> waiting for sponsor to upload it and then seeing what the Alpha buildd 
> does with it, rinsing and repeating.

I have an Alpha here. It's an old 166MHz EV4 with 40Mb RAM, running
Potato. But if that's good enough for your purposes, I'm happy to give
you an account. It's a noisy space heater (a Multia), so I only switch
it on when I need it. I have no problem running it for a week though if
you need the time.

Cheers,


Emile.

-- 
E-Advies / Emile van Bergen   |   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
tel. +31 (0)70 3906153|   http://www.e-advies.info


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Re: a new home for debian-installer

[Marcin Owsiany]

On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 11:07:35AM +0100, Mateusz Papiernik wrote:
> > Since I'm a Norwegian and not a German, I'd prefer not to. ;)  My
> > German is quite rusty.
> If it will only the page, which is now, I can translate it into Polish,
> but I haven't debian-account yet. 
> 
> btw, official debian polish translator AFAIR is porridge?

Well, there's no such thing as an "official translator". I'm just a
coortinator, see
http://www.debian.org/devel/website/translation_coordinators

BTW you can always send me your translation and I can commit it.

Marcin
-- 
Marcin Owsiany <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://marcin.owsiany.pl/
GnuPG: 1024D/60F41216  FE67 DA2D 0ACA FC5E 3F75  D6F6 3A0D 8AA0 60F4 1216

Re: Need access to an Alpha

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

Would an Alpha in UK be OK??
Running Debian unstable and potentially on 24/7

Andy

- Original Message - 
From: "Andrew Pollock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 11:04 AM
Subject: Need access to an Alpha

Multiple conflicts between firewall configuring packages (policy change? mass bug filing?)

[Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña]

In Debian (woody and sid) we have multiple firewall configuration
packages: iptables, firestarter, gfcc, knetfilter, easy-firewall,
firewall-easy to mention a few. All of them make use of the kernel
firewalling code.  However, if a user installs more than one of them he
might get into _Big_ trouble due to all trying to add their own rules.

He can either:
1.- get the rules of the latest firewall script that runs from init (if it
flushes the previous rules)
2.- get a mixed setup of rules.

¿Shouldn't there be a way for these firewalls to cooperate so as to not
get users into trouble?

I can think of one way to do so through virtual packages. By making a
package Provide: and Conflict: with 'firewall-configurator' for example,
we can prevente users for installing more than one firewall package. But
this might not be enough for some situations (bastille, for example can or
cannot provide a firewall depending on user's configuration).

¿How should we proceed (policy-wise) on this?


Regards

Javi



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Re: Bug#170472: info: top Info pages of different packages wildly differ

[Osamu Aoki]

On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 12:05:32PM +0100, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 06:18:15AM +0800, Dan Jacobson wrote:
> > Package: info
> > Version: 4.1-2
> > Severity: normal
> (..)
> > Therefore folks should make top Info nodes with proper headers.
> > How about a debian Info pages policy.
> > 
>   Agreed. Please propose content for such a section in the DDP 
> policy  which is currently in draft. See
> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/ddp-policy/ddp-policy.en.html

That's too se draft.  For you to add draft, see:

$ export CVSROOT=:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs/debian-doc
$ cvs login
CVS password:(empty password)
$ cvs co ddp/manuals.sgml/ddp-policy

Have fun adding file:

   ddp/manuals.sgml/ddp-policy/en/info.sgml 

:-)  If you do not have DDP account, send the file to me or Javier, we
will add it.
-- 
~\^o^/~~~ ~\^.^/~~~ ~\^*^/~~~ ~\^_^/~~~ ~\^+^/~~~ ~\^:^/~~~ ~\^v^/~~~ +
Osamu Aoki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   Cupertino CA USA, GPG-key: A8061F32
 .''`.  Debian Reference: post-installation user's guide for non-developers
 : :' : http://qref.sf.net and http://people.debian.org/~osamu
 `. `'  "Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software" --- Social Contract

Re: Need access to an Alpha

[UCC]

On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 09:04:59PM +1000, Andrew Pollock wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've got a problem with a package I maintain building from source on the 
> Alpha architecture.
> 
> I'm still going through the NM process, and I believe that once I become a
> DD I'll get access to a Debian Project Alpha. In the meantime, does
> someone have an Alpha that they can give me temporary access to? I'd like 
> to troubleshoot this problem quickly, rather than rolling a new package, 
> waiting for sponsor to upload it and then seeing what the Alpha buildd 
> does with it, rinsing and repeating.

http://www.testdrive.compaq.com/ has Alphas run Debian. That might help.

Bug#170518: ITP: libnet-easytcp-perl -- Easily create secure, bandwidth-friendly TCP/IP clients and servers

[Shiju p. Nair]

Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2002-11-24
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: libnet-easytcp-perl
  Version : 0.17
  Upstream Author : Mina Naguib, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://search.cpan.org/author/MNAGUIB/EasyTCP-0.16/
* License : Perl license 
  Description : Easily create secure, bandwidth-friendly TCP/IP clients and 
servers


- One easy module to create both clients and servers 
- Object Oriented interface 
- Event-based callbacks in server mode 
- Internal protocol to take care of all the common transport problems 
- Transparent encryption 
- Transparent compression 

This class allows you to easily create TCP/IP clients and servers and
provides an OO interface to manage the connection(s). This allows you to
concentrate on the application rather than on the transport. 

You still have to engineer your high-level protocol. For example, if you're
writing an SMTP client-server pair, you will have to teach your client to
send "HELO" when it connects, and you will have to teach your server what to
do once it receives the "HELO" command, and so forth. 

What you won't have to do is worry about how the command will get there,
about line termination, about binary data, complex-structure serialization,
encryption, compression, or about fragmented packets on the received end. All
of these will be taken care of by this class. 


-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C

Re: NM application

[Carlos Laviola]

On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 02:21:37PM +1100, Geoff O'Callaghan wrote:
> Sorry to raise this at the moment as i'm sure everyone is busy recovering 
> from recent events and even though this is probably not the appropriate forum 
> all my other efforts have fallen on deaf emails.

-newmaint-discuss is probably better.

> Anyway,  I'm trying to find out why my NM application ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
> is taking so long to get through the final part of the process.  My AM 
> approved my application on 25 May 2002.  It's now 24 Nov 2002 - so that's 
> pretty much 6 months.

Think that's too much?  You should see Gustavo Franco's.  I've waited my
fair bit, also -- almost the same as you, I guess.  Don't worry, the DAM
will eventually process your application.  Just wait.

-- 
Carlos Laviola   < [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Debian GNU/Linux 

Re: Throwing out random thoughts about the whole non-free imbraglio

[Colin Walters]

On Sun, 2002-11-24 at 04:10, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 08:34:19AM -0600, John Goerzen wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 01:25:23AM -0500, Nathanael Nerode wrote:
> > > would be a positive improvement over the status quo); I wonder what 
> > > Debian 
> > > developers who support non-free think of these ideas?
> > 
> > It must feel good to totally ignore a large chunk of Debian developers.
> 
> Actually John, you and Branden seem to be about the only people posting in
> support of the GR. No doubt there are others who agree, but what makes
> you think there are so many?

Perhaps things like the number of people who maintain free packages
versus non-free, or all the emphasis the NM process places on free
software.  Or maybe it's just faith that the project will do the Right
Thing and drop non-free.

Orphaning xmlto

[christophe barbe]

I am thinking about orphaning xmlto.
It's a very useful package but I am not very uptodate with sgml/xsl and
I know nearly nothing about TeX (and doesn't want to).

So if someone is interested and feels he can do a better job, I would be
happy.

Most current bugs are fixed in the new upstream but unfortunately I fail
to package it (I can provide details). Also debian is STILL missing
xml-catalog so I patch the source to point to local .xsl .dtd files to
do a best effort (but this is not good because when you want to process
a file, this file is likely to contains url too).

Let me know,
Christophe 

-- 
Christophe Barbé <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
GnuPG FingerPrint: E0F6 FADF 2A5C F072 6AF8  F67A 8F45 2F1E D72C B41E

Things should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler.
-- Albert Einstein

Bug#170546: ITP: gnarwl -- Email autoresponder based on LDAP

[Cajus Pollmeier]

Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2002-11-24
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: gnarwl
  Version : 2.3
  Upstream Author : Patrick Ahlbrecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.oss.billiton.de
* License : GPL
  Description : Email autoresponder based on LDAP

Gnu Neat Auto Reply With LDAP

Gnarwl is an email autoresponder. Unlike the original vacation(1)
program, gnarwl is based on LDAP. Traditionally you had to give every
user, who wanted to use autoreply facilities full fledged system
accounts (trusting them to set their forwarding up properly, cursing
when they didn't). With gnarwl this is history. User information is now
stored in LDAP. Thats right, no more messing around with system accounts
or homedirs for users who just want their email working, but don't care
to fuss around with shell commands. 

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux dell 2.4.20-rc1 #1 Sat Nov 9 14:28:56 CET 2002 i686
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (ignored: LC_ALL set)

Re: Ask yourself some questions

[Darren Salt]

I demand that Scott Dier may or may not have written...

> * Yven Leist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [021122 10:43]:
>> Y'see Branden, at least the "get rid of Branden's evil jokes" GR would
>> easily be overthrown :-)

> /me notes that he is generally laughing out loud at most of them.

> Sadly, my coworkers think I'm going insane rather than laughing at a good
> joke. :)  Talking to the monitor can't help that too much either...

Has it ever answered?

-- 
| Darren Salt   | nr. Ashington, | linux (or ds) at
| Linux PC, Risc PC | Northumberland | youmustbejoking
| No Wodniws here   | Toon Army  | demon co uk
|   Running woody on the other machine.

Man who fall in vat of molten optical glass make spectacle of self.

#64071: Automatically generated files should not go to /etc

[Bill Allombert]

reassign 64071 general
thanks

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I noticed that menu generates files in /etc automatically, e.g.
> 
> /etc/X11/fvwm/menudefs.hook
> 
> /etc should be for configuration files only, not automatically generated 
> files.
> 
> The discussion in debian-devel suggests /var/lib/menu as a good place. Though
> it might make sense to make a symlink to /etc for compatibility reasons.
> 
> For the discussion and some background information see my post and the thread
> on debian-devel
> 
> http://www.debian.de/Lists-Archives/debian-devel-0004/msg01305.html
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> rainer.
> 

Menu itself do not generate files in /etc automatically, it is the individual
menu-method files provided by the menu managers.

So I reassign This bug to general.

Cheers,
-- 
Bill. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

There is no record of the [EMAIL PROTECTED] package, and no bugs have been
filed against it.

Processed: #64071: Automatically generated files should not go to /etc

[Debian Bug Tracking System]

Processing commands for [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> reassign 64071 general
Bug#64071: menu: Automatically generated files should not go to /etc
Bug reassigned from package `menu' to `general'.

> thanks
Stopping processing here.

Please contact me if you need assistance.

Debian bug tracking system administrator
(administrator, Debian Bugs database)

Re: Discussion - non-free software removal

[Ian Jackson]

Branden Robinson writes ("Re: Discussion - non-free software removal"):
> While we're on the subject, can you tell us whether or not the Social
> Contract was specifically one of the documents you had in mind when you
> wrote clause 4.1.5 of the Debian Constituion?  Could you answer the same
> question about the DFSG?

Sorry about the delay replying, it's been chaos at work and I've not
had much time ...

Yes, the Social Contract and DFSG were exactly those kind of things.
You may recall that in the latter part of my term as leader, I
proposed a rewrite of the DFSG.  At the time, no-one suggested that a
supermajority would be required to pass it.  (The actual proposal died
of general lack of support.)

Ian.

Bug#170559: ITP: fontconfig -- Font configuration and customization library

[Ari Pollak]

Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2002-11-24
Severity: wishlist

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

* Package name: fontconfig
  Version : 2.1
  Upstream Author : Keith Packard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.fontconfig.org
* License : MIT/X-style
  Description : Font configuration and customization library

Will be split into 4 packages - libfontconfig1, libfontconfig-dev,
libxft2, and libxft-dev.

Fontconfig is designed to locate fonts within the
system and select them according to requirements specified by
applications.

This package also includes a more modern verson of Xft, aptly named 
Xft2.

- -- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux darth 2.4.19 #1 Sat Sep 14 13:32:41 EDT 2002 i686
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C

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Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)

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n/wIy1wJtClmXAKCKgXCmPQ=
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Ian Jackson in New Zealand

[Ian Jackson]

Work are sending me to Asiacrypt, which is in Queenstown from the 1st
to the 5th of December.  I'm also going to be taking some time in NZ
for sightseeing etc.

So firstly, I'm going to be away from my email for quite a bit.  I may
have some access from NZ, but hotel connectivity is strange and my
laptop's TP-ethernet is inoperative due to mechanical trauma[1].  Tech
ctte people, you'll have to do without me for a bit :-).  Please wait
until I get back with the md5sum output format thing.

Secondly, if anyone in NZ would like to meet up please let me know
ASAP.  It'd be good to go out for a drink or three.  Maybe I can even
teach you Mao :-) (or have a good game if you know it already ...).
I'll post again when I have flight numbers and hotel details.

The flights I have booked are:

 2002-11-28   LHR dep 1425
 2002-11-30   Auckland   arr 0545 dep 1000
  Queenstown arr 1150

 2002-12-11   Queenstown  dep 1100
  Auckland   arr 1245

 2002-12-15   Aucklanddep 1645
 2002-12-16   LHRarr 0910

Thanks for your attention,
Ian.

[1] I dropped it on the networking dangly bit.

Bug#170472: info: top Info pages of different packages wildly differ

[Michael Stone]

On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 06:18:15AM +0800, Dan Jacobson wrote:
Therefore folks should make top Info nodes with proper headers.
How about a debian Info pages policy.
How 'bout just filing wishlist bugs with patches? 

Mike Stone

Bug#170565: ITP: uif -- Advanced iptables-firewall script

[Cajus Pollmeier]

Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2002-11-24
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: uif
  Version : 1.0.4
  Upstream Author : Joerg Platte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://area51.mfh-iserlohn.de/uif
* License : GPL
  Description : Advanced iptables-firewall script

Complete package to create and simplify iptables packetfilter
rules using perl. It was developed for a diskless router
system that can store its configurations in regular files or
ldap databases.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux dell 2.4.20-rc1 #1 Sat Nov 9 14:28:56 CET 2002 i686
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (ignored: LC_ALL set)

Re: Free bigot flame burning, time to think.

[Michael Cardenas]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 07:41:02AM -0800, Osamu Aoki wrote:
> Reasons for not to expel non-free:
> 
>   (1)  size of non-free section has no practical impact to over all
>archive size (<<3%)  No real financial damage.
>See Susan's post Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
...
>   (6)  Flame war on this issue is waist of energy.  We will win
>non-free war by writing better free code (OpenSSH and GPG as good
>example).
> 

And please let me add 

(7) By making non-free software harder for Debian users to get, use
and maintain, we will only be lessening the number of people who
choose to start using debian. 

Currently we offer a completely free solution for those that want it,
along with a less free system that can be had after a slight
modification. This allows us to be inclusive of newcomers who are not
yet weaned off of their free software, but may be as they learn more
about Debian. 

I think that being more restrictive would just mean having fewer
users, who in turn result in fewer developers, over time. People need
a way to be introduced to free software. 

michael 

-- 
michael cardenas   | lead software engineer, lindows.com
hyperpoem.net  | GNU/Linux software developer
people.debian.org/~mbc | encrypted email preferred

"Each something is a celebration of the nothing that supports it."
- John Cage


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Re: Ye Olde optimization/mirror disk space debate

[Thomas Bushnell, BSG]

Benoit Peccatte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Do you sometime think at other people's bilities ?
> I'm sure big mirrors don't care, how about those who can't afford
> the expense ? Either because their disks are already full and they 
> don't wan't to buy new ones or because buying new ones may mean
> buying other hardware too or even because bandwidth cost them a lot
> more tham disk space. 

Once again, we tell mirrors that they can mirror only i386, and that
would be fine.  We already have mirrors that mirror some arches and
not others, right?

Once again, of course, we should do what we can to make this easy for
mirrors to handle.

ATI Technologies Inc. Canada - Email submission

[ATI Technologies Inc. Canada]

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and issues can be addressed by information found on our website and encourage 
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Visit http://www.ati.com

Re: Bug#170559: ITP: fontconfig -- Font configuration and customization library

[Colin Walters]

On Sun, 2002-11-24 at 12:42, Ari Pollak wrote:

> * Package name: fontconfig

First of all, have you talked to Branden about this?

Second, I've been maintaining unofficial packages of fontconfig and xft2
in my "local" repository for quite some time now; see
http://people.debian.org/~walters

Third, these packages will (AIUI) be distributed in the XFree source
tarball, so Branden should probably be the one who packages them, unless
you've worked something out with him.

Finally, you should not upload this until Branden splits xlibs and
xlibs-dev; otherwise you will need to use dpkg-divert (as my packages
do), and that's why I didn't ITP or upload them.

Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 10:32:47PM -0800, Thomas Zimmerman wrote:

> Well, no. But then, I've not had to do anything other then use a 2.4
> kernel to get IDE DMA. But most desktop work is letency based and using
> a kernel with the low latency patch and preempt cuts max latency by
> about 6 times based on some workloads ( 600ms --> 20ms ).

Most desktop applications spend more time doing waiting for I/O than waiting
for CPU.

-- 
 - mdz

Re: Need access to an Alpha

[Jeremy T. Bouse]

I have one of my two Multias online 24/7 runnin Woody/stable
that might be of assistance... 

Jeremy

On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 09:04:59PM +1000, Andrew Pollock wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've got a problem with a package I maintain building from source on the 
> Alpha architecture.
> 
> I'm still going through the NM process, and I believe that once I become a
> DD I'll get access to a Debian Project Alpha. In the meantime, does
> someone have an Alpha that they can give me temporary access to? I'd like 
> to troubleshoot this problem quickly, rather than rolling a new package, 
> waiting for sponsor to upload it and then seeing what the Alpha buildd 
> does with it, rinsing and repeating.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Andrew




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Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

[Martin Schulze]

Clint Adams wrote:
> > No, it's not. Low end disks are cheap. High end disks still aren't.
> > Bandwidth still isn't.  Especially when you're spending donated
> > resources rather than your own. 
> 
> Odd, then, that Debian has turned down resource donations in the past.

Yeah, it's really a pity that we failed to convert mid-end ethernet cards
and mid-end machines into high-end harddisks, and it's so trivial, isn't
it?

Regards,

Joey

-- 
The only stupid question is the unasked one.

Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.

Re: Throwing out random thoughts about the whole non-free imbraglio

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 10:15:00AM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
> On Sun, 2002-11-24 at 04:10, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> > Actually John, you and Branden seem to be about the only people posting in
> > support of the GR. No doubt there are others who agree, but what makes
> > you think there are so many?
> 
> Perhaps things like the number of people who maintain free packages
> versus non-free, or all the emphasis the NM process places on free
> software.  Or maybe it's just faith that the project will do the Right
> Thing and drop non-free.

I would be fairly surprised to hear that any developer maintained only
non-free packages, so that doesn't seem to be a very useful measure.

Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Ian Jackson in New Zealand

[Philip Charles]

On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Ian Jackson wrote:

***
> Secondly, if anyone in NZ would like to meet up please let me know
> ASAP.  It'd be good to go out for a drink or three.  Maybe I can even
> teach you Mao :-) (or have a good game if you know it already ...).
> I'll post again when I have flight numbers and hotel details.
>
> The flights I have booked are:
>
>  2002-11-28   LHR dep 1425
>  2002-11-30   Auckland   arr 0545 dep 1000
>   Queenstown arr 1150
>
>  2002-12-11   Queenstown  dep 1100
>   Auckland   arr 1245
>
>  2002-12-15   Aucklanddep 1645
>  2002-12-16   LHRarr 0910
>
There are a number of us in Dunedin.

Phil.

--
  Philip Charles; 39a Paterson Street, Abbotsford, Dunedin, New Zealand
   +64 3 488 2818Fax +64 3 488 2875Mobile 025 267 9420
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - preferred.  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 I sell GNU/Linux & GNU/Hurd CDs.   See http://www.copyleft.co.nz

Re: NM application

[Joerg Jaspert]

Carlos Laviola <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> -newmaint-discuss is probably better.

Dead list according to lists.debian.org

-- 
bye Joerg
A.D. 1492:
Christopher Columbus arrives in what he believes to be India, but
which RMS informs him is actually GNU/India.

Re: Ye Olde optimization/mirror disk space debate

[Richard Braakman]

On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 11:45:24AM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> Once again, we tell mirrors that they can mirror only i386, and that
> would be fine.  We already have mirrors that mirror some arches and
> not others, right?

Currently we have a good, solid mirror infrastructure.  I can expect
to find one or more full, up-to-date mirrors in my country or a
neighbouring country, and I don't even have to look them up --
I just try ftp.*.debian.org, possibly ftp1.*.debian.org, where
the * is a country code.

You propose to fragment that and make users play hunt-the-right-mirror
every time they configure apt.  For what benefit?

Richard Braakman

Re: NM application

[Graham Wilson]

On Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 12:07:22AM +0100, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> Carlos Laviola <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > -newmaint-discuss is probably better.
> 
> Dead list according to lists.debian.org

[EMAIL PROTECTED] is not though, and there has been some discussion
there in the past.

--
gram


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Re: Ye Olde optimization/mirror disk space debate

[Thomas Bushnell, BSG]

Richard Braakman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 11:45:24AM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> > Once again, we tell mirrors that they can mirror only i386, and that
> > would be fine.  We already have mirrors that mirror some arches and
> > not others, right?
> 
> Currently we have a good, solid mirror infrastructure.  I can expect
> to find one or more full, up-to-date mirrors in my country or a
> neighbouring country, and I don't even have to look them up --
> I just try ftp.*.debian.org, possibly ftp1.*.debian.org, where
> the * is a country code.
> 
> You propose to fragment that and make users play hunt-the-right-mirror
> every time they configure apt.  For what benefit?

No.  I propose making the solution easy for users and more mirror
operators.  I can think of several options right off the bat.  

Moreover, I expect that most mirrors won't skip a beat.

Regardless, I have no objection to phasing such things in slowly, as
well.  Perhaps we wouldn't need both 386 and 486.  

Perhaps it would be useful to have the easy-local-build variant, since
that's a prereq anyway, and it would enable the creation of ready
statistics so that the value of optimization can be demonstrated.

Re: Orphaning xmlto

[Graham Wilson]

On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 10:51:14AM -0500, christophe barbe wrote:
> So if someone is interested and feels he can do a better job, I would be
> happy.

i would be interested in packaging it, but seeing as im not a developer
yet, i would need a sponsor (though i can ask david and see if he might
be willing, as he is sponsoring my other packages).

> Most current bugs are fixed in the new upstream but unfortunately I fail
> to package it (I can provide details).

could you send me this information via private email?

thanks
--
gram


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Re: Are we losing users to Gentoo?

[Clint Adams]

> Yeah, it's really a pity that we failed to convert mid-end ethernet cards
> and mid-end machines into high-end harddisks, and it's so trivial, isn't
> it?

I seem to remember at least two occasions where offers of the use of
machine, rackspace, and bandwidth were turned down.  I think in most
cases, the machines had hard drives in them, but I could be assuming too
much.