Re: Bug#485586: debian-installer: Default to graphical install
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud (2014-08-19): > While I don't have a definitive opinion on the ordering of the menu > choices, I definitively think amd64 should be picked by default on amd64 > architectures. Especially since multiarch, there's no good reason left > for installing i386 on amd64-capable machines AFAIK. OK, ta. > Now, the ideal would be to use syslinux' ifcpu/ifcpu64 c32 modules to > determine the menu order depending on the machine (see [0]): no "64 bit" > option on 32 bit machines, "hidden or down the menu" "32 bit" option on > 64 bit-capable machines. > > I'd be happy to iron out some proposals during DebConf, if that idea > seems interesting. I didn't mention this because my mails contained too many questions already, but yes, it would be nice to have a conditional behaviour, depending on the detected architecture. Maybe automatic selection of the default architecture in the multi- arch image; and displaying a warning on i386 if an amd64 image was booted? Probably to be tracked in a separate, wishlist bug report to avoid conflating everything, even if the topics are quite close, I admit. Mraw, KiBi. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#742485: debian-installer: debian-testing-amd64-gnome-CD1.iso installs XFCE
Hi Fabian, Fabian Rodriguez (2014-08-19): > Package: debian-installer > Followup-For: Bug #742485 > > Dear Maintainer, > > I tested installing from debian-testing-amd64-CD-1.iso obtained at > http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/amd64/iso-cd/, > expecting the Gnome desktop to be installed. > > This image was dated 2014-08-18 08:52, MD5 sum was: > f8003d7bad1724027efc41e629673eb1 > > Instead XFCE was installed. possibly the setup for the weekly builds wasn't updated with the patches used for Jessie Beta 1? Using beta images at this point would probably be a better idea than weekly builds anyway. Mraw, KiBi. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#742485: debian-installer: debian-testing-amd64-gnome-CD1.iso installs XFCE
Cyril Brulebois (2014-08-19): > Hi Fabian, > > Fabian Rodriguez (2014-08-19): > > Package: debian-installer > > Followup-For: Bug #742485 > > > > Dear Maintainer, > > > > I tested installing from debian-testing-amd64-CD-1.iso obtained at > > http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/amd64/iso-cd/, > > expecting the Gnome desktop to be installed. > > > > This image was dated 2014-08-18 08:52, MD5 sum was: > > f8003d7bad1724027efc41e629673eb1 > > > > Instead XFCE was installed. > > possibly the setup for the weekly builds wasn't updated with the patches > used for Jessie Beta 1? Using beta images at this point would probably > be a better idea than weekly builds anyway. Also, what Steve said. Having different things in your mail subject and mail body is a bit confusing… Mraw, KiBi. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#485586: debian-installer: Default to graphical install
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote: > Now, the ideal would be to use syslinux' ifcpu/ifcpu64 c32 modules to > determine the menu order depending on the machine (see [0]): no "64 bit" > option on 32 bit machines, "hidden or down the menu" "32 bit" option on > 64 bit-capable machines. This used to be the case via the default64 option patched into syslinux, but then #505243 complicated it and #505496 saw the default64 option removed from syslinux. It would certainly be worth fixing this reversion in the multiarch CD. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Plan of action for Secure Boot support
On Thu, 2014-08-14 at 23:38 +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote: [...] > > 1. Colin Watson will prepare dak changes to support upload and > > subsequent signing of EFI executables. (This is an embedded, not > > detached, signature.) > > > > 2. Steve Langasek will prepare and upload a package of the 'shim' EFI > > boot loader. This will embed our own set of public keys > > (corresponding to those used by dak) and can load any other EFI > > executable signed by one of them. Later, there will be a shim-signed > > package containing the same executable with a Microsoft signature. > > (This costs money and takes several days, but shim should require only > > very infrequent changes.) > > > > 3. Colin Watson will update the GRUB package to build a to-be-signed > > monolithic EFI executable separate from the package. Then he will add > > a grub-signed package that includes the Debian-signed executable from > > the archive. This executable would be suitable for use on both > > removable media and the installed system. > > > > 4. The kernel team may also need to upload kernel images for signing > > and add linux-image-signed packages with the Debian-signed kernel > > images. This is because some quirks in the kernel should be run > > before calling ExitBootServices(). > > could you please tell us whether anything changed during the past year? > Is there any chance we could think of having SB in jessie, or should we > consider it an unreasonable goal for this release and concentrate on > other things? So far as I know, no progress has been made on the above steps or any alternate approach. Ben. -- Ben Hutchings Anthony's Law of Force: Don't force it, get a larger hammer. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Plan of action for Secure Boot support
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 01:38:44PM -0700, Ben Hutchings wrote: > >So far as I know, no progress has been made on the above steps or any >alternate approach. Ditto, I've not seen (or done) anything about this. -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com Mature Sporty Personal More Innovation More Adult A Man in Dandism Powered Midship Specialty -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140819211641.gi7...@einval.com
Re: Bug#485586: debian-installer: Default to graphical install
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 02:02:17PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote: >Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote: >> Now, the ideal would be to use syslinux' ifcpu/ifcpu64 c32 modules to >> determine the menu order depending on the machine (see [0]): no "64 bit" >> option on 32 bit machines, "hidden or down the menu" "32 bit" option on >> 64 bit-capable machines. > >This used to be the case via the default64 option patched into >syslinux, but then #505243 complicated it and #505496 saw the default64 >option removed from syslinux. > >It would certainly be worth fixing this reversion in the multiarch CD. Definitely - we're already tracking this in #752133 -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com "I suspect most samba developers are already technically insane... Of course, since many of them are Australians, you can't tell." -- Linus Torvalds -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140819211952.gj7...@einval.com
Re: Debion live.
John Sandeman wrote: Hi. Steve. I want to know if this DVD is ok to use on a 64bit pc with either an amd or intel processor? I am trying to learn Linux I do not have any programming knowledge and am 80 years old, do you think it is possible to use your live disc for me to do this. Would appreciate your Help. Regards Jack. Are you a new computer user or just new to linux? There is a Debian Linux OS for new computer users called "HandyLinux" and it's Debian Wheezy/stable http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20140811#feature If you are already an experienced computer user then please try all the different versions of Debian-Live and see what you like, I like easy linux or what's called "point & click" linux and use the KDE plasma-desktop with all the bells & whistles and everything works too, Debian-Live KDE does just that, I’ve tried all the different versions, some are smaller and faster, you should try them too. -- Jimmy Johnson Tanglu GNU/Linux - AMD 64 - KDE 4.11.5 - EXT4 at sda8 Registered Linux User #380263 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53f3c1be.9080...@gmail.com
Re: Bug#485586: debian-installer: Default to graphical install
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 01:17:02AM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote: >[ Adding -accessibility@ and -cd@ to the loop. ] > >Steve McIntyre (2014-08-17): >> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 01:25:28PM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote: >> >Control: tag -1 confirmed >> >> Another issue is that it requires much more memory, but that IMO is not a >> >> blocker. It does require careful documentation though. >> > >> >Holger's last reports reminded of this, which we finally didn't do for >> >wheezy. Unless someone has an objection, I'll schedule this switch for >> >the next d-i upload. >> >> Yay, definitely. We never did get round to this for Wheezy, so let's >> get it done now. > >On a related note: we have an amd64-i386 “multi-arch” netinst image. >I'd be happy to take opinions on the following questions since that's >the only image linked directly from www.debian.org, which leads some >people to call it “_the_ default installation image”… > >Its boot menu reads right now (at least in Jessie Beta 1): > Install > 64 bit install > Graphical install > 64 bit graphical install > Advanced options > Help > Install with speech synthesis > 64 bit speech install > >FWIW, I'm tempted to modify it so that it becomes: > Install > Graphical install > 64 bit install > 64 bit graphical install > Advanced options > Help > Install with speech synthesis > 64 bit speech install > >This means swiching items #2 and #3, so that we have 32-bit and 64-bit >entries together (which is what happens in the "Advanced options" >sub-menu). Speech synthesis entries can be kept together separately >(see below). > >=> debian-boot/cd@: anyone against such a change? I'm more tempted to have: #if (amd64) via syslinux 64 bit Graphical install 64 bit Text install #endif 32 bit Graphical install 32 bit Text install Advanced options > Help #if (amd64) via syslinux Install with speech synthesis (64 bit) #endif Install with speech synthesis (32 bit) or do we split things even more? That menu is already too long, and causes scrolling for people to see the lower options (if they realise such a thing is possible!). How about we split things up some more, assuming we can get the auto-detect to work: #if (amd64) via syslinux 64 bit Graphical install 64 bit Text install 32 bit install options > Advanced options > Help Install with speech synthesis (64 bit) #else 32 bit Graphical install 32 bit Text install Install with speech synthesis (32 bit) #endif It'll need some extra work to deal with different paths through for i386 and amd64 here, but meh. It's possibly worth separating them totally, and make sure each path is clear in terms of which arch. On the multi-arch CD and DVD, the deeper "advanced options" menus are a bit too spread I think, so splitting at the top level would be a good plan for simplicity maybe? >The default is "Install" right now, which installs i386. The topic of >this bug report is switching to "Graphical install" by default, but >shouldn't we also promote amd64 by default while we're at it? This >would mean having "64 bit graphical install" as the default. > >=> debian-boot/cd@: do we want amd64 by default? Definitely - see above! >Since the menus can be confusing a bit, I'm also wondering whether >we should be explicit about the non-"64 bit" items, and prefix them >with "32 bit". > >=> debian-boot/cd@: opinions? Definitely - see above! -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com "Further comment on how I feel about IBM will appear once I've worked out whether they're being malicious or incompetent. Capital letters are forecast." Matthew Garrett, http://www.livejournal.com/users/mjg59/30675.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140819214516.gk7...@einval.com
Re: Bug#485586: debian-installer: Default to graphical install
Steve McIntyre (2014-08-19): > or do we split things even more? That menu is already too long, and > causes scrolling for people to see the lower options (if they realise > such a thing is possible!). How about we split things up some more, > assuming we can get the auto-detect to work: > > #if (amd64) via syslinux > 64 bit Graphical install > 64 bit Text install > 32 bit install options > > Advanced options > > Help > Install with speech synthesis (64 bit) > > #else > > 32 bit Graphical install > 32 bit Text install > Install with speech synthesis (32 bit) > > #endif That looks very nice (except the missing "Advanced options" in the #else part). > It'll need some extra work to deal with different paths through for > i386 and amd64 here, but meh. It's possibly worth separating them > totally, and make sure each path is clear in terms of which arch. On > the multi-arch CD and DVD, the deeper "advanced options" menus are a > bit too spread I think, so splitting at the top level would be a good > plan for simplicity maybe? Having the per-arch code to detangle the mess looks like a nice idea, thanks. That means Didier (or someone else) will have to get it to work as a first step. I'd prefer if we made the switch for all images at a single time (even if that happens through several commits), so that we only have a single documentation update. As Holger mentioned, it's going to have *some* impacts in various areas; I'd rather avoid too many steps if at all possible. (And of course: Thanks for your input.) Mraw, KiBi. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#485586: debian-installer: Default to graphical install
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 11:58:27PM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote: >Steve McIntyre (2014-08-19): >> or do we split things even more? That menu is already too long, and >> causes scrolling for people to see the lower options (if they realise >> such a thing is possible!). How about we split things up some more, >> assuming we can get the auto-detect to work: >> >> #if (amd64) via syslinux >> 64 bit Graphical install >> 64 bit Text install >> 32 bit install options > >> Advanced options > >> Help >> Install with speech synthesis (64 bit) >> >> #else >> >> 32 bit Graphical install >> 32 bit Text install >> Install with speech synthesis (32 bit) >> >> #endif > >That looks very nice (except the missing "Advanced options" in the #else >part). Doh, yes! >> It'll need some extra work to deal with different paths through for >> i386 and amd64 here, but meh. It's possibly worth separating them >> totally, and make sure each path is clear in terms of which arch. On >> the multi-arch CD and DVD, the deeper "advanced options" menus are a >> bit too spread I think, so splitting at the top level would be a good >> plan for simplicity maybe? > >Having the per-arch code to detangle the mess looks like a nice idea, >thanks. That means Didier (or someone else) will have to get it to work >as a first step. I'd prefer if we made the switch for all images at a >single time (even if that happens through several commits), so that we >only have a single documentation update. As Holger mentioned, it's going >to have *some* impacts in various areas; I'd rather avoid too many steps >if at all possible. Of course, Oh, and after I've thought about this a little more - I believe it will make the amd64 UEFI menus in grub slightly easier to make, as well. They're post-processed from the syslinux menus in debian-cd via a horrid perl script... -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com "This dress doesn't reverse." -- Alden Spiess -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140819220240.gm7...@einval.com
