Re: The curious case of openjdk-6-jre-headless_6b24-1.11.1-3_amd64.deb in d7.01alpha

2012-05-16 Thread shirish शिरीष 
at bottom :-

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Adam D. Barratt
 wrote:
> On 16.05.2012 04:06, shirish शिरीष wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 1:19 AM, Adam D. Barratt
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, 2012-05-16 at 00:30 +0530, shirish शिरीष wrote:

 On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:55 PM, shirish शिरीष 
 wrote:
 --2012-05-16 00:13:05--


 http://snapshot.debian.org/archive/debian/20120511T175706Z/pool/main/o/openjdk-6/openjdk-6-jre-headless_6b24-1.11.1-3_amd64.deb
>>>
>>> [...]

 49,40,020   29.1K/s  eta 11m 22s71%
 [==>
         ] 1,80,08,880 30.5K/s   in 10m 5s

 2012-05-16 00:23:10 (29.1 KB/s) - Connection closed at byte 18008880.
 Retrying.
 As can be seen something causes the connection to close at 70/71% ,

 Can somebody please take a look.
>>>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, neither the Release nor CD teams can do anything about
>>> issues between your systems and snapshot.debian.org.  You might try
>>> contacting the administrators of that service, although I'd suggest
>>> trying to download the package from an alternative location first to
>>> rule out any issues with your own connectivity.
>>
>>
>> I don't know any other alternative location, can you recommend one ?
>
>
> I meant running the download from another location, not trying to download
> the file /from/ another location.  So anywhere other than wherever the
> download quoted above was performed (i.e. to try to determine if there's a
> more general issue with connectivity to the snapshot systems).
>
> Regards,
>
> Adam

o.k. I would have to take a rain check on that (if I understand
correctly) but I did try another one on the same location just for
testing purposes and came back with the same result.

$ wget -c 
http://snapshot.debian.org/archive/debian/20120516T040426Z/pool/main/0/0ad/0ad-dbg_0%7Er11339-2_amd64.deb
--2012-05-16 12:09:40--
http://snapshot.debian.org/archive/debian/20120516T040426Z/pool/main/0/0ad/0ad-dbg_0%7Er11339-2_amd64.deb
Resolving snapshot.debian.org (snapshot.debian.org)... 193.62.202.30,
206.12.19.150, 2607:f8f0:610:4000:1a1a:0:ce0c:1396, ...
Connecting to snapshot.debian.org
(snapshot.debian.org)|193.62.202.30|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 39393896 (38M) [application/x-debian-package]
Saving to: `0ad-dbg_0~r11339-2_amd64.deb'

30% [===>
] 1,21,89,577 24.4K/s   in 10m 5s

2012-05-16 12:19:53 (19.7 KB/s) - Connection closed at byte 12189577. Retrying.

--2012-05-16 12:19:54--  (try: 2)
http://snapshot.debian.org/archive/debian/20120516T040426Z/pool/main/0/0ad/0ad-dbg_0%7Er11339-2_amd64.deb
Connecting to snapshot.debian.org
(snapshot.debian.org)|193.62.202.30|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 39393896 (38M) [application/x-debian-package]
Saving to: `0ad-dbg_0~r11339-2_amd64.deb'

28% [>
] 1,10,58,593 18.9K/s   in 10m 7s

2012-05-16 12:30:05 (17.8 KB/s) - Connection closed at byte 12189577. Retrying.

--2012-05-16 12:30:07--  (try: 3)
http://snapshot.debian.org/archive/debian/20120516T040426Z/pool/main/0/0ad/0ad-dbg_0%7Er11339-2_amd64.deb
Connecting to snapshot.debian.org
(snapshot.debian.org)|193.62.202.30|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 39393896 (38M) [application/x-debian-package]
Saving to: `0ad-dbg_0~r11339-2_amd64.deb'

 2% [>
] 7,94,92028.6K/s  eta 25m 13s ^C


Would try using another device, another ISP to see if I get the same results.
-- 
          Regards,
          Shirish Agarwal  शिरीष अग्रवाल
  My quotes in this email licensed under CC 3.0
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/
http://flossexperiences.wordpress.com
065C 6D79 A68C E7EA 52B3  8D70 950D 53FB 729A 8B17


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Re: Wheezy release: CDs are not big enough any more...

2012-05-16 Thread Timo Juhani Lindfors 
Bjørn Mork  writes:
> No, you don't.  On a default Debian system you need to be a member of
> the "floppy" group. From  /lib/udev/rules.d/91-permissions.rules :

Yeah but you are not a member of that group by default surely?

> You mean that they allow you to burn a CD but not write to a USB
> stick?

Yes, I understood this was the default. If you put users to floppy group
then remote users can read usb sticks of local users.


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Re: Wheezy release: CDs are not big enough any more...

2012-05-16 Thread Bjørn Mork 
Timo Juhani Lindfors  writes:
> Wookey  writes:
>> And the USB-stick process is not as simple as it might be because you
>> have to find the HD-media files and then _also_ find an iso image to
>> put on. It's no wonder newbs are still downloading CD/DVD images. 
>
> You also need to have root access to some machine to create the USB
> media.

No, you don't.  On a default Debian system you need to be a member of
the "floppy" group. From  /lib/udev/rules.d/91-permissions.rules :

 # default permissions for block devices
 SUBSYSTEM=="block", GROUP="disk"
 SUBSYSTEM=="block", ATTRS{removable}=="1",  GROUP="floppy"

> This means you can't create the installation media at most
> university or library machines unlike with CDs.

You mean that they allow you to burn a CD but not write to a USB stick?
Sounds like they have a support problem which I don't think Debian can
solve for them.


Bjørn


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Re: Wheezy release: CDs are not big enough any more...

2012-05-16 Thread Bjørn Mork 
Timo Juhani Lindfors  writes:
> Bjørn Mork  writes:
>> No, you don't.  On a default Debian system you need to be a member of
>> the "floppy" group. From  /lib/udev/rules.d/91-permissions.rules :
>
> Yeah but you are not a member of that group by default surely?

No, that decision should be left to the adminstrator.  The point was
that you don't need to be root, and you probably never should be when
doing something like that (to prevent being only one typo away from
disaster).

>> You mean that they allow you to burn a CD but not write to a USB
>> stick?
>
> Yes, I understood this was the default. If you put users to floppy group
> then remote users can read usb sticks of local users.

I fail to see how burning to a local user's CD is any better, but yes,
if that is a consideration then they need some system to tie the rights
to console access.  I believe ConsoleKit and the replacement
systemd-loginctl attempts to solve such problems.


Bjørn


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Re: Wheezy release: CDs are not big enough any more...

2012-05-16 Thread Ben Armstrong 
On 05/16/2012 06:10 AM, Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote:
> Bjørn Mork  writes:
>> No, you don't.  On a default Debian system you need to be a member of
>> the "floppy" group. From  /lib/udev/rules.d/91-permissions.rules :
> 
> Yeah but you are not a member of that group by default surely?

$ debconf-show user-setup
...

  passwd/user-default-groups: audio cdrom dip floppy video plugdev
netdev powerdev scanner bluetooth
...

At least the initial user created by user-setup at install time will be
in this group. That would cover everyone with self-administrated
systems, which I would hazard a guess would be most of our audience. So
while we can't assume every user has access, we could at least recommend
in the doc that the command be executed as an ordinary user "where
possible" to avoid accidental harm.

Ben


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Re: Wheezy release: CDs are not big enough any more...

2012-05-16 Thread Neil Williams 
On Wed, 16 May 2012 07:53:55 -0300
Ben Armstrong  wrote:

> On 05/16/2012 06:10 AM, Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote:
> > Bjørn Mork  writes:
> >> No, you don't.  On a default Debian system you need to be a member of
> >> the "floppy" group. From  /lib/udev/rules.d/91-permissions.rules :
> > 
> > Yeah but you are not a member of that group by default surely?
> 
> $ debconf-show user-setup

... that listing isn't available on Squeeze ...

If we're to document this, it would need to be as-per Squeeze.

>   passwd/user-default-groups: audio cdrom dip floppy video plugdev
> netdev powerdev scanner bluetooth

floppy is in my `groups` on Squeeze (scanner is not but the rest on the
list above are).

dialout cdrom floppy sudo audio dip video plugdev netdev bluetooth

dialout and sudo explicitly added, rest are the defaults IIRC.

> At least the initial user created by user-setup at install time will be
> in this group. That would cover everyone with self-administrated
> systems, which I would hazard a guess would be most of our audience. So
> while we can't assume every user has access, we could at least recommend
> in the doc that the command be executed as an ordinary user "where
> possible" to avoid accidental harm.



-- 


Neil Williams
=
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/



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Re: Wheezy release: CDs are not big enough any more...

2012-05-16 Thread Timo Juhani Lindfors 
Bjørn Mork  writes:
> I fail to see how burning to a local user's CD is any better, but yes,
> if that is a consideration then they need some system to tie the rights
> to console access.  I believe ConsoleKit and the replacement
> systemd-loginctl attempts to solve such problems.

Yes, I believe usb-creator package in ubuntu does exactly this, it lets
local users create USB installation media. Unfortunately even that is by
default only allowed for admins.


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Re: Wheezy release: CDs are not big enough any more...

2012-05-16 Thread Steve McIntyre 
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 09:00:29PM -0500, Peter Samuelson wrote:
>[Steve McIntyre]
>> The major win with dd onto a raw device is that you can specify the
>> block size. For most USB sticks, using a block size of 4MB or so is
>> going to be *much* faster than using the default for dd (512 bytes)
>> or cp (10 KB IIRC).
>
>That seemed a little fishy to me, since none of the above commands do
>any fsync by default, so I just benched it locally.
>
>Writing a 50 MB businesscard image to a USB flash drive on my system
>(numbers are MB/s):
>
>dd bs=512   1.771.781.77
>dd bs=1024  1.791.761.77
>dd bs=2048  1.771.781.78
>dd bs=4096  2.542.532.51
>dd bs=8192  2.482.502.55
>dd bs=4194304   2.502.502.54
>cp  2.492.472.48
>
>So it appears that if you aren't going to specify a bs= parameter here,
>there's no point in using dd, unless you just happen to think its
>command line syntax is particularly charming.  And even if you do
>specify bs=, you'll only barely beat cp.

You're not measuring the time taken to sync to the flash drive either,
so all you're going to be seeing is the speed of writing to
cache. I've done lots of work with USB flash and MMC/SD cards over the
last few years, and the best results are typically achieved using "dd
bs=4M oflag=sync". That way, you'll normally get nicely-aligned date
writes big enough to cover the internal flash page size and remove the
horrendous effects of read-modify-write cycles.

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com
Can't keep my eyes from the circling sky,
Tongue-tied & twisted, Just an earth-bound misfit, I...


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Re: Wheezy release: CDs are not big enough any more...

2012-05-16 Thread Thomas Schmitt 
Hi,

Bjørn Mork  wrote:
> On a default Debian system you need to be a member of
> the "floppy" group.

Ferenc Wagner  wrote:
> What about recommending /dev/disk/by-id/usb-X instead?

I understand that the instructions about creating a Debian installation
medium shall be usable on as many systems as possible, not only on
already installed Debian systems.

USB stick on a pre-udev SuSE:
  brw-r- 1 root disk   8, 32 2012-05-15 20:18 /dev/sdb

USB stick on FreeBSD 8:
  crw-rw-r--  1 root  floppy  0, 124 May 15 20:13 /dev/da0

On Solaris it seems to be:
  lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 60 Jun  8  2010 /dev/dsk/c5t0d0p0 -> 
../../devices/pci@0,0/pci1458,5004@13,2/storage@4/disk@0,0:q
  br 1 root root 83, 272 Jun  8  2010 
/devices/pci@0,0/pci1458,5004@13,2/storage@4/disk@0,0:q
I fail to find a device file with any w-permission in the c5t0d0 family of
/dev/dsk or /dev/rdsk. (When i was younger, Solaris looked more like Unix.)
There is a script
   http://src.opensolaris.org/source/raw/livemedia/livemedia/usbcopy
which finds the USB stick and writes some data onto the stick while issueing
several error messages.
But the stick afterwards does not bear the data which i gave as input
"image" to the script.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


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Re: What installer images should we provide for s390 and s390x?

2012-05-16 Thread Philipp Kern 
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 02:20:08PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> We had a brief discussion back in April about s390/s390x CD images,
> but I'm still not clear on what people would like me to do here.
> 
> At the moment, on all other arches we currently create:
> 
>  * small CDs (businesscard and netinst)
>  * full CD and DVD sets
> 
> For s390 we've never done the small CDs and just had the full
> sets. For s390x we currently do nothing at all.
> 
> Should we just follow the normal conventions and do both types for
> these arches too? Or is that just totally wasting space and time?

I did not find any documentation about how to access the CD when it's put into
the Hardware Management Console.  It's possible to boot a netinst installer
from it, because the HMC is able to load the relevant files (initrd, kernel,
options, etc.) into RAM by itself.  The only use for the disc would be to
copy the tree to a local mirror or something.  I think in general people would
be better off just doing a network install.  But a netinst image would be
really helpful as it's a bit fiddly to boot Debian installer in a partition
otherwise.

Probably not the answer you wanted, though...

Kind regards
Philipp Kern


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Re: Wheezy release: CDs are not big enough any more...

2012-05-16 Thread Peter Samuelson 

[Steve McIntyre]
> You're not measuring the time taken to sync to the flash drive
> either, so all you're going to be seeing is the speed of writing to
> cache.

Huh, I figured the 'sync' call at the end of each test run covered
that.

> I've done lots of work with USB flash and MMC/SD cards over the last
> few years, and the best results are typically achieved using "dd
> bs=4M oflag=sync". That way, you'll normally get nicely-aligned date
> writes big enough to cover the internal flash page size and remove
> the horrendous effects of read-modify-write cycles.

Not noticeable in my test runs, so maybe I have an abnormal flash disk.
(The fact that it has a USB interface, rather than something closer to
the flash controller, probably makes a difference.)

Anyway, I've never been against people recommending things like
"dd bs=4M oflag=sync" when writing to disk media.  My pet peeve is when
people recommend "dd" but without any options other than if= and of=.
It is clear that many such people don't have a clue _why_ they use dd,
except an irrational, dare I say cargo-cult, aversion to cp with block
devices.


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