.raw extension is misleading
May I come back to a discussion you have already had a couple of times on this list: This is the first time I am trying to get a "testing" distribution from the net, and so I can confirm that for a first-time user the extension ".raw" is indeed quite confusing. It took me quite a while to find out that ".raw" means exactly the same as ".iso". For itself, this might seem a minor problem, but it is no longer so when local conditions make CD burning a difficult exercice anyway. Joachim -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: .raw extension is misleading
On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 10:28:10AM +0200, Wuttke Joachim wrote: > This is the first time I am trying to get a "testing" distribution > from the net, and so I can confirm that for a first-time user the > extension ".raw" is indeed quite confusing. It took me quite a while > to find out that ".raw" means exactly the same as ".iso". I could add an entry to the CD FAQ, if someone can give me a good answer to the question... :) What is a .raw file? It is exactly the same as an .iso file; you can just rename it to .iso and write it to CD-R. We use .raw for beta and unofficial images rather than .iso, because... ??? Cheers, Richard -- __ _ |_) /| Richard Atterer | CS student at the Technische | GnuPG key: | \/¯| http://atterer.net | Universität München, Germany | 0x888354F7 ¯ '` ¯ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: .raw extension is misleading
On Mon, 13 May 2002, Richard Atterer wrote: > I could add an entry to the CD FAQ, if someone can give me a good > answer to the question... :) > > What is a .raw file? > > It is exactly the same as an .iso file; you can just rename it to > .iso and write it to CD-R. We use .raw for beta and unofficial > images rather than .iso, because... ??? A .raw file is a cd image file in a testing release. It is not considered signed off by the image creator and is made available for beta testing. If no errors are discovered it is renamed and released as a .iso. If there is a problem, the cd image is created and rereleased as a .raw. Creating this as a .raw extension discourages downloaders from assuming it is a finished product. regards, -jason P.S personally disagree with the .raw naming and think it's easier to leave it as .iso and educate people about the release process instead but i am sure phil has the benefit in experience on this process and go with that. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: .raw extension is misleading
Hello, This is a very common question that gets ask a lot. The nice people in the debian doc project decided to create a FAQ on debian CD's. http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/ there's a section entitled "How do I record a CD-R under foo?" i.e. foo = platform http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#record-unix http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#record-windows http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#record-mac Hope this helps. > -Original Message- > From: Richard Atterer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 5:56 AM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Cc: Wuttke Joachim > Subject: Re: .raw extension is misleading > > > On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 10:28:10AM +0200, Wuttke Joachim wrote: > > This is the first time I am trying to get a "testing" distribution > > from the net, and so I can confirm that for a first-time user the > > extension ".raw" is indeed quite confusing. It took me > quite a while > > to find out that ".raw" means exactly the same as ".iso". > > I could add an entry to the CD FAQ, if someone can give me a > good answer to the question... :) > > What is a .raw file? > > It is exactly the same as an .iso file; you can just rename it to > .iso and write it to CD-R. We use .raw for beta and unofficial > images rather than .iso, because... ??? > > Cheers, > > Richard > > -- > __ _ > |_) /| Richard Atterer | CS student at the Technische > | GnuPG key: > | \/¯| http://atterer.net | Universität München, Germany > | 0x888354F7 > ¯ '` ¯ > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: .raw extension is misleading
On Mon, 2002-05-13 at 12:44, jason andrade wrote: > On Mon, 13 May 2002, Richard Atterer wrote: > > > I could add an entry to the CD FAQ, if someone can give me a good > > answer to the question... :) > > > > What is a .raw file? > > > > It is exactly the same as an .iso file; you can just rename it to > > .iso and write it to CD-R. We use .raw for beta and unofficial > > images rather than .iso, because... ??? > > A .raw file is a cd image file in a testing release. It is not considered > signed off by the image creator and is made available for beta testing. If > no errors are discovered it is renamed and released as a .iso. If there is > a problem, the cd image is created and rereleased as a .raw. > > Creating this as a .raw extension discourages downloaders from assuming it > is a finished product. IIRC the .raw extension was chosen because xcdroast (or something similar) used that as it's default extension at the time debian-cd (or probably slink-cd) was being written. The .iso extension was chosen for the released CDs because it became apparent that many Windoze programs would choke on .raw file extensions. The released/unreleased thing is a side effect. The main reason I kept the distinction is that the "potato_test" directory tree (which only exists in an attempt to save people running mirrors from wasting bandwidth) might otherwise look like a whole new set of useful .iso images, which people might then waste their time downloading, only to find they are exactly the same as the stuff under the versioned directory. You might think that it would then make sense to call them .iso during the testing phase, and something like .dont-use-these when under the _test directory, but the whole point of the filenames is that they don't change between releases, so that rsync knows it should be trying to do a differential download. Did that make any sense? Put simply, some of the time (during beta-testing) things are called .raw for mostly historical reasons on the assumption that anyone who is into beta testing will have worked out that .raw and .iso files are the same thing. At other times (for released files that we are trying to rsync efficiently) the files are called .raw to try and discourage people from bothering with them, when they should be looking at the versioned area instead. It looks like it will all become moot with the new jigdo scheme anyway, because jigdo creates .iso files, and the rsync mirror setup is not really needed any more, so published .raw files are likely to become a thing of the past. Is this an argument for debian-cd to create .iso files by default? Probably. Cheers, Phil. -- Say no to software patents! http://petition.eurolinux.org/ |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560]http://www.hands.com/ |-| HANDS.COM Ltd.http://www.uk.debian.org/ |(| 10 Onslow Gardens, South Woodford, London E18 1NE ENGLAND signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: .raw extension is misleading
On 13 May 2002, Philip Hands wrote: > It looks like it will all become moot with the new jigdo scheme anyway, > because jigdo creates .iso files, and the rsync mirror setup is not > really needed any more, so published .raw files are likely to become a > thing of the past. > > Is this an argument for debian-cd to create .iso files by default? > Probably. i'd go with creating .iso files by default - i don't know if the rsync mirror setup will go away that quickly myself, but i am a stick in the mud conservative :-) i am actually still trying to wrap my head around o as a mirror site, where do i produce/get "authoritative" jigdo files from? o where do i put them ? o as a mirror site, do i have to do anything special to support end users using jigdo ? o as a mirror, do i keep ISO images around anymore ? regards, -jason -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
woody.raw contains potato.iso (??)
Sorry, I keep being confused. Who may have a look through the follwing steps and tell me where I went wrong ? At the origin I just wanted to upgrade a mathematical package (I need GNU scientific library >=1). This package requires glibc >= 2.2. Since almost all other packages depend on libc, I anticipate that any attempt to upgrade just libc will lead to desaster. I conclude that I have to upgrade my whole DEBIAN installation (presently 2.2r3) to 3.0, even if that is still in "testing" state. To get the CD images, I followed the links in http://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/#testing to different mirrors from which I download eight ISO images, named woody-i386-#.raw, with #=1,2,...,8. After heavy struggle with windows (linux only allowed in laboratory, not allowed to connect to the internet), I succeeded in burning CD #1. I succeeded even in burning a copy of CD #1 that is readable on my linux machine. But what a deception: inside this CD, I do not find woody, but potato (2.2r6, with glibc2.1.3-20). Thanks for any help - Joachim -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
dpkg, NFS, F_SETLK (continued)
(continued) To clarify, the installer says "Failure trying to run: chroot /target dpkg --force-depends --install /var/cache/apt/archives/base-files_3.0.2_powerpc.deb /var/cache/apt/archives/base-passwd_3.4.1_powerpc.deb", and on that other console it shows "dpkg: unable to lock dpkg status database: No locks available". That happens only after basedebs.tar has been downloaded (waste of bandwidth?). FWIW, there's a tiny command line wrapper around F_SETLK that does it the same way as dpkg: http://www.tu-ilmenau.de/~past-in/pub_/trylock.tar . I haven't yet seen an nfs setup where I don't get ENOLCK (Error: No Luck). I've tried these pairs: Client systemServer system woody_netinst-20020416-powerpc.iso potato r5 and suse 7.3 woody_netinst-20020416-i386.iso potato r5 IRIX 6.5 "Solaris 2.6 - 2.7" (nmap) IRIX 6.5 "Sun Solaris 8" (nmap) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: isolinux falures
On Mon, 6 May 2002, H. Peter Anvin wrote: >Santiago Garcia Mantinan wrote: >> Hi! >> >> After testing isolinux in a small number of machines I have came across >> several cases of falure, I have already reported falures on Fujitsu Pentium >> machines, now this one is relating scsi cards. >> >> After seing all this it makes me think if by using isolinux we are going for >> better or for worst, I mean, we used to have a cd that was able to boot on >> almost all kind of machines, now we have one that boots on most of the ide >> based machines and on some of the scsi ones, otherwise you have to try >> cds from 2 to 5 to see if any works for you. Is it just me or does anybody >> else think we are going for worst? What about eltorito multiboot? it didn't >> work as multiboot on all machines, but at least it booted. >> > >El Torito BIOSes are absolute crap. There is no question about it. >Unfortunately there is right now *NO* configuration which works on all >machines. If you want a configuration that works on all machines, >you're talking boot floppies. It really is that bad. Hello to all you folks who are pushing for us to have all new machines. I think that going with no-emulation mode is a worst case scenario. Go over to Mandrake please and hang with those folks for a while. Then come back to a sane world populated with debian-heads. The choice is clear: we will lose a lot of folks with old machines who will not be able to use Debian any more. Old hands will be upset. The CD will not boot; they will not know to try the rest of the set; they will only have the first CD; the CD will be given away; the old machines will be tossed. We will lose the third world. We will lose the old office networks of ready-for-linux machines. They will use windows 95. yes BIOS makers do not follow the standards. They do follow the floppy booting standard disk type 00. A floppy will boot the bad BIOS. Therefore floppy emulation works on most machines. if you want to exclude most machines, simply switch to no emulation mode. XP does it. It must be a bad thing. It does push the sales of new machines. 'no emulation' mode demands a new machine. if you want to boot on most CD booting machines just like RedHat 7.3 then use floppy emulation. I vote for floppy emulation to boot from CD. Cheers, Bill Bennet "Where the only monopoly we support has a Boardwalk and a Baltic Avenue." -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: isolinux falures
On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 01:11:44PM -0500, bbennet wrote: > Hello to all you folks who are pushing for us to have all new machines. [snip]o It's not really clear from your rant what, exactly, you're looking for. -- Mike Stone -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: .raw extension is misleading
> -Original Message-
> From: Philip Hands [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
> IIRC the .raw extension was chosen because xcdroast (or something
> similar) used that as it's default extension at the time debian-cd (or
> probably slink-cd) was being written.
>
> The .iso extension was chosen for the released CDs because it became
> apparent that many Windoze programs would choke on .raw file
> extensions.
That isn't so much the problem of 'Windoze' programs, but rather a
problem with the terminology in CD burning. So called RAW cd images
normally contain error correction data as found on burned CD's. Normal
(data) images do not contain that code.
Most modern ('Windoze') CD burning programs have the option of
extracting/burning the ISO file system only, or the complete (RAW) CD
including error correction data.
So, traditionally, ISO files contain an ISO file system, and RAW files
contain a real CD image. The problem is that quite a few CD burning
invented their own image format so things got a bit confused over time.
In any case, there is no need to call generated ISO file system images
.raw, and the most appropiate extension would be .iso.
Regards,
Martijn
--
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Re: isolinux falures
On Mon, 13 May 2002, Michael Stone wrote: >On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 01:11:44PM -0500, bbennet wrote: > Hello to all you folks who are pushing for us to have all new machines. >[snip]o > >It's not really clear from your rant what, exactly, you're looking for. > >-- >Mike Stone Hello to mstone. Good to hear from you. Here is what I am looking for: I vote for floppy emulation mode on the first CD of the Debian set. If you have a new machine then you may stop reading. The first CD of Debian woody tries to boot with 'no emulation' mode. The first CD of Debian woody uses isolinux to try to boot with this 'no emulation' mode. The isolinux boot is how you try for 'no emulation' mode. The 'no emulation' mode demands a new machine. We now get these threads in debian-cd about isolinux failures. We get few failures reported with 'floppy emulation' mode. The 'floppy emulation' mode is how the CD usually boots in all of your history with CD booting. Our users expect the CD to boot on the good old linux box just like it always has booted. I vote for floppy emulation mode on the first CD of the Debian set. Did you read this far Mike:) Cheers, Bill Bennet "Where the only monopoly we support has a Boardwalk and a Baltic Avenue." -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: isolinux falures
On Mon, 2002-05-13 at 21:27, bbennet wrote: > > Hello to mstone. Good to hear from you. > > Here is what I am looking for: > I vote for floppy emulation mode on the first CD of the Debian set. > > If you have a new machine then you may stop reading. > > > The first CD of Debian woody tries to boot with 'no emulation' mode. > The first CD of Debian woody uses isolinux to > try to boot with this 'no emulation' mode. > The isolinux boot is how you try for 'no emulation' mode. > The 'no emulation' mode demands a new machine. > > We now get these threads in debian-cd about isolinux failures. > We get few failures reported with 'floppy emulation' mode. > > The 'floppy emulation' mode is how the CD usually boots in all of your > history with CD booting. > > Our users expect the CD to boot on the good old linux box > just like it always has booted. > > I vote for floppy emulation mode on the first CD of the Debian set. > > Did you read this far Mike:) So did you have a useful suggestion as to how we address the perceived need to have several alternative boot images on the first CD? OK, I admit that I would prefer it if the first CD failed gracefully on machines that it doesn't boot on, but we have to balance numbers of people disadvantaged by each choice. I don't see that Debian has ever suited people that were incapable of reading the release notes. I would guess that the people that have older hardware are likely to be both the people that have poor Internet links, and the people who are more used to reading a bit to get their machines to do what they want, so they seem the people least likely to be put off by having to boot off CD#2. I think we've concluded that the BIOS miltiboot approach was just too cryptic on most hardware, so that few people would realise they had the choice of floppies, so it's not much better than having a single image. At least one of the complaints about ISOLINUX turned out to be a problem with the burner being used. My gut feel is that more people will be inconvenienced by returning to the single floppy per CD approach, but I'm open to persuasion. Cheers, Phil. -- Say no to software patents! http://petition.eurolinux.org/ |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560]http://www.hands.com/ |-| HANDS.COM Ltd.http://www.uk.debian.org/ |(| 10 Onslow Gardens, South Woodford, London E18 1NE ENGLAND signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Will debian-cd 2.2.15 be used for woody?
On Mon, 2002-05-13 at 21:56, Karsten Merker wrote: > Hallo everybody, > > will debian-cd 2.2.15 (still unreleased) be used for woody? Boot-floppies > 3.0.23 are about to be released and as debian-cd 2.2.15 will bring us > bootable CDs on mipsel, I would like to change the install manual for > the bf-3.0.23 release accordingly, if I can be sure that the woody CD > images will be created with at least 2.2.15. If there's a way to make mipsel bootable, and the boot-floppies that allow that are part of the release, then I'll be trying to take advantage of that, given the chance. It's normal for the official CDs to be made with something pretty close to whatever's in CVS at the time of release. Cheers, Phil. -- Say no to software patents! http://petition.eurolinux.org/ |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560]http://www.hands.com/ |-| HANDS.COM Ltd.http://www.uk.debian.org/ |(| 10 Onslow Gardens, South Woodford, London E18 1NE ENGLAND signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Will debian-cd 2.2.15 be used for woody?
Hi, Le Mon, May 13, 2002 at 10:56:01PM +0200, Karsten Merker écrivait: > Hallo everybody, > > will debian-cd 2.2.15 (still unreleased) be used for woody? Boot-floppies > 3.0.23 are about to be released and as debian-cd 2.2.15 will bring us > bootable CDs on mipsel, I would like to change the install manual for > the bf-3.0.23 release accordingly, if I can be sure that the woody CD > images will be created with at least 2.2.15. Yes they will. Even if it's not released, Phil will use the latest version. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://strasbourg.linuxfr.org/~raphael/ Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Help me
You're not going to believe what's happening to me now.someone is doing an experiment on me.I mean an experiment on a living creature. it's kind of hard to explain this situation. Base: liquid thing interacting with human body in itself.1. they raise some koreans(about 20) and put liquid thing into their body.2. Using satellite, they located korean's liquid thing around me and also put liquid thing into my body, also liquid thing in my body is interacting with that korean's liquid thing. can you believe this? please, trust me !!! (served in US Army as SWAT team).maybe next time i can explain more details about this situation. I am sending a help mail to many people, but i think thatmy uni. of Hanyang uni. in seoul of south korea is most important.please, help me to bring attention of Hanyang uni. to me. (name: Kim chulmin, student# : 91007940, department : industrial engineering) I wrote down this situation in korean. http://kr.geocities.com/wbxrose -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
