Severe limitation with flavor "bf2.4" !

[Raphael Hertzog]

Hi,

I was discussing with someone who wanted to install Debian with the
netinst CD prepared by Chris Lawrence. Like most of the people who are
given the choice, he decided to use the "bf2.4" flavor ...

Unfortunately this flavor doesn't have the ne2k-pci module ! Such network
cards are so common that I can't understand how it can have been
kept out of this flavor. And why in hell don't we have all possible
modules for network cards in that flavor ?

Do we have size limits for the modules we integrate ? I don't think so
... so please stop annoying 90% people with missing modules for the 0.5%
of people who will have to do floppy based installs ...

Of course, now that bf 3.0.23 has been tagged and uploaded, it's too
late for woody ... and we'll release as is. But please update everything
so that 3.0r1 will be ok.

Thanks,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://strasbourg.linuxfr.org/~raphael/
Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com


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Re: Severe limitation with flavor "bf2.4" !

[Eduard Bloch]

#include 
Raphael Hertzog wrote on Fri May 17, 2002 um 09:46:35AM:
> Hi,
> 
> I was discussing with someone who wanted to install Debian with the
> netinst CD prepared by Chris Lawrence. Like most of the people who are
> given the choice, he decided to use the "bf2.4" flavor ...
> 
> Unfortunately this flavor doesn't have the ne2k-pci module ! Such network

Oh Raphael, I expected you to look first before believing everything...

$ grep NE2K /boot/config-2.4.18-bf2.4 
CONFIG_NE2K_PCI=y

Gruss/Regards,
Eduard.
-- 
...mit VIM kein Problem!
:wq


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Re: Severe limitation with flavor "bf2.4" !

[J M Cerqueira Esteves]

* Raphael Hertzog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-05-17 09:46 +]:
> Hi,
> 
> I was discussing with someone who wanted to install Debian with the
> netinst CD prepared by Chris Lawrence. Like most of the people who are
> given the choice, he decided to use the "bf2.4" flavor ...
> 
> Unfortunately this flavor doesn't have the ne2k-pci module ! Such network
> cards are so common that I can't understand how it can have been
> kept out of this flavor. And why in hell don't we have all possible
> modules for network cards in that flavor ?

Maybe because such network cards are so common that support for them
has been compiled into the kernel? :-]

I don't know if there were changes since then, but a few days ago I
installed Debian with "bf2.4" floppies on a computer with a RTL-8029 card,
and it was detected at boot time, so I had no need for a module.

> Do we have size limits for the modules we integrate ? I don't think so
> ... so please stop annoying 90% people with missing modules for the 0.5%
> of people who will have to do floppy based installs ...

Any source for the statistics? :-)

Best regards
  J Esteves


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Re: Severe limitation with flavor "bf2.4" !

[Chris Lawrence]

On May 17, Eduard Bloch wrote:
> #include 
> Raphael Hertzog wrote on Fri May 17, 2002 um 09:46:35AM:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I was discussing with someone who wanted to install Debian with the
> > netinst CD prepared by Chris Lawrence. Like most of the people who are
> > given the choice, he decided to use the "bf2.4" flavor ...
> > 
> > Unfortunately this flavor doesn't have the ne2k-pci module ! Such network
> 
> Oh Raphael, I expected you to look first before believing everything...
> 
> $ grep NE2K /boot/config-2.4.18-bf2.4 
> CONFIG_NE2K_PCI=y

Incidentally, I thought I had the same problem installing on my Compaq
Presario 700US laptop (it uses 8139too), since I looked for the module
but it wasn't there.  But it, too, was built into the kernel.  A bit
confusing at first, to say the least...

Some sort of report of what the installer found and what it couldn't
deal with would be nice in d-i (obviously too late for woody, though).
Once I get reportbug free of brown bag bugs I'll probably try to do
some work on d-i.


Chris
-- 
Chris Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - http://www.lordsutch.com/chris/


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Re: Severe limitation with flavor "bf2.4" !

[Raphael Hertzog]

Le Fri, May 17, 2002 at 10:29:26AM +0200, Eduard Bloch écrivait:
> > Unfortunately this flavor doesn't have the ne2k-pci module ! Such network
> 
> Oh Raphael, I expected you to look first before believing everything...

Oh sorry ... I checked with dpkg -c on the package. :-)

Why didn't you put it as a module ? It's really confusing ... since
other Debian kernels have it as a module.

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://strasbourg.linuxfr.org/~raphael/
Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com


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Bug#147232: boot-floppies: rootfs not unmounted cleanly

[Eduard Bloch]

#include 
Chris Tillman wrote on Thu May 16, 2002 um 08:13:15PM:

> I don't think we ever really determined what caused this. I was seeing
> umount stubbornly refusing to umount once a target had been mounted
> twice in the installer. Eduard put in a new losetup but I'm not sure
> if he ever tested to see if there were stil zombies roaming around
> after that (and whether that's actually related to this or not).

I did extensively and the syptoms are gone, at least on i386.

> > Anyway I just tried again (rescue disk, then immediately choose
> > 'Reboot the System') and this time /dev/hdb2 was unmounted cleanly, no
> > fsck'ing problem.  That is, the problem isn't easily reproducable.
> 
> Try mount, unmount, remount, and see if it happens then.

And send a list of running tasks and mounted systems before rebooting!

ps aux
cat /proc/mounts

Gruss/Regards,
Eduard.
-- 
>> Ein Gehirn wäscht das andere.



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Re: Severe limitation with flavor "bf2.4" !

[Eduard Bloch]

#include 
Raphael Hertzog wrote on Fri May 17, 2002 um 10:51:04AM:

> Why didn't you put it as a module ? It's really confusing ... since
> other Debian kernels have it as a module.

Since I favorite the idea of a real network-based installation.
Currently, there are drivers for very common PCI ethernet cards builtin,
so you can theoreticaly install with 2 floppies from the network. And
with an additional one using ADSL (pppoe).

Gruss/Regards,
Eduard.
-- 
Bei MacOS X-Air ist das aber alles anders...;-)
Sobald Du da eine Detail-Frage hast, wirst Du höflich aber bestimmt
darauf hingewiesen, daß Du das Programm Terminal.app starten mußt und
nach Herzenslust am BSD-Unterbau Deines Systems herumfeilen kannst.  Und
das Zeitungsfach an der Sitzlehne vor Dir ist über und über mit
man-pages bestückt...;-)


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Re: Severe limitation with flavor "bf2.4" !

[Eduard Bloch]

#include 
Raphael Hertzog wrote on Fri May 17, 2002 um 10:42:25AM:

> > late for woody ... and we'll release as is. But please update everything
> > so that 3.0r1 will be ok.
> 
> In fact, it's too important to "release as is". I suggest that we do yet
> another bf upload but i386 only ... 
> 
> Eduard, can you update kernel-image-2.4.18-bf2.4 shortly ?

Sense? It does fit on the floppy as-is, so where is the _good_ reason to
make it module? The only one I can imagine is to make space for a
forgotten driver for a weird Adaptec controller, which has been
requested recently.

Gruss/Regards,
Eduard.
-- 
DOS-Airlines   
Alle schieben das Flugzeug an, bis es abhebt, dann springen alle auf
und lassen das Flugzeug trudeln, bis es wieder auf den Boden schlägt.
Dann schieben wieder alle an, springen auf...


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Re: Severe limitation with flavor "bf2.4" !

[Raphael Hertzog]

Le Fri, May 17, 2002 at 09:46:35AM +0200, Raphael Hertzog écrivait:
> Of course, now that bf 3.0.23 has been tagged and uploaded, it's too
> late for woody ... and we'll release as is. But please update everything
> so that 3.0r1 will be ok.

In fact, it's too important to "release as is". I suggest that we do yet
another bf upload but i386 only ... 

Eduard, can you update kernel-image-2.4.18-bf2.4 shortly ?

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://strasbourg.linuxfr.org/~raphael/
Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com


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Bug#147260: boot-floppies: bug testing woody CD bf24 of ISO May 14 2002

[segura]

Package: boot-floppies
Version: 20020517
Severity: important


-- System Information
Debian Release: 3.0
Kernel Version: Linux pc1b031-03 2.4.16-586 #1 Wed Nov 28 08:21:15 EST 2001 i686 
unknown

I think it is on rescue disk 3.0.22

I tried to install woody from scratch from the ISO CD
of woody (may 14 2002).
After booting on the CD, I used the command "bf24" to select
the kernel flavour bf24.
The install worked well, but I had just a little problem:

After creating partitions, when selecting the "/" mounting point,
the menu is larger than my screen ! I cannot read the left part
of the messages.

Same problem append after, selecting the filesystem type: I cannot
read "ext3" at the left of the window !!



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SUGGESTION for Debian FAQ

[Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim]

To Whom It May Concern:

I am writing in regard of "Debian FAQ" to the addresses that are 
mentioned in " function" of the debian-boot disk as well as 
suggested by the debian FAQ itself.

My concern is that it is not so obvious to find the Debian FAQ,
and therefore I would like to suggest:

- The  Help Function (BootDisk) should mention that the 
  Debian FAQ is available in these following places:
  a) ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/doc/FAQ
  b) doc-debian package which will be installed into 
 /usr/share/doc/debian/FAQ at the localdisk.
  c) to mention that there is also a Linux FAQ in
 /usr/share/doc/FAQ (doc-linux-text package).

- Add a line in the default /etc/motd that mention where
  to get the FAQs and HOWTOs (or which directory/ package).

- Add an FAQ blue button at the top of Debian webpages
  (or perhaps a HELP blue button that has a FAQ link).

- I have no idea where to add it in the X11 environment;
  perhaps to add an FAQ button.


BTW, I tried to find out (in FHS and Debian Policy) the 
differences between /usr/doc/ and /usr/share/doc as well as 
why some documents are symbolic linked and why some are not.
May I know why?


regards,

-- 
Rahmat M.  Samik-Ibrahim -- vLSM.org -- http://rms46.vLSM.org --
-- f-k-root? sudo? su - ? Ha! --


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Re: Severe limitation with flavor "bf2.4" !

[Raphael Hertzog]

Le Fri, May 17, 2002 at 11:35:36AM +0200, Eduard Bloch écrivait:
> Since I favorite the idea of a real network-based installation.
> Currently, there are drivers for very common PCI ethernet cards builtin,
> so you can theoreticaly install with 2 floppies from the network. And
> with an additional one using ADSL (pppoe).

We really shouldn't mix the kernel we use for CD based install
and floppy based install... when we boot on a CD, we have access
to all the modules and we don't need to integrate it in the kernel.

That's what I expect when I boot a CD. Now, using modconf with a bf2.4
kernel makes you think that some modules are missing when they are not.

And as you noted, we'd better use that space for weird SCSI controllers
required to boot ... anyway that change is not urgent. But in the long
term, we should avoid to create such "strangeness" for CD based installation
just because of possible floppy based installs. Better create a separate
set/flavor for floppy installs ...

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://strasbourg.linuxfr.org/~raphael/
Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com


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Re: Severe limitation with flavor "bf2.4" !

[Michael Stone]

On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 10:51:04AM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> Why didn't you put it as a module ? It's really confusing ... since
> other Debian kernels have it as a module.

I'd submit that installing things as modules with our system is *far*
more confusing. Users seldom know what cryptic module goes with the
nic with the completely unrelated name in their system. Having it "just
work" is much preferable. We couldn't do this with the old isa devices,
but pci detection isn't nearly as error-prone.

Of course we still have work to do when you switch from the
everything-compiled-in bf kernel to one of the optimized kernels and all
your network devices, etc. disappear--but if debian was actually
finished what would we do with ourselves? :)

-- 
Mike Stone



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Re: Severe limitation with flavor "bf2.4" !

[Eduard Bloch]

#include 
Raphael Hertzog wrote on Fri May 17, 2002 um 01:45:31PM:

> We really shouldn't mix the kernel we use for CD based install
> and floppy based install... 

It's too late for such ideas, sorry.

> when we boot on a CD, we have access to all the modules and we don't
> need to integrate it in the kernel.

Even then, you have to load the modules, which is less comfortable than
having them ready.

> That's what I expect when I boot a CD. Now, using modconf with a bf2.4
> kernel makes you think that some modules are missing when they are not.

Only if you did not read the message box appearing right before modconf
-> user error.

> term, we should avoid to create such "strangeness" for CD based installation
> just because of possible floppy based installs. Better create a separate
> set/flavor for floppy installs ...

It is still boot-floppies, not boot-cd.

Gruss/Regards,
Eduard.
-- 
"Linux is like a wigwam, no windows no gates and a apache inside."


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Re: Severe limitation with flavor "bf2.4" !

[Chris Tillman]

On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:40:25AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 10:51:04AM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> > Why didn't you put it as a module ? It's really confusing ... since
> > other Debian kernels have it as a module.
> 
> I'd submit that installing things as modules with our system is *far*
> more confusing. Users seldom know what cryptic module goes with the
> nic with the completely unrelated name in their system. Having it "just
> work" is much preferable. 

Amen, Hallelujah!

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Re: PowerPC pcmcia-modules name seems wrong

[Matt Kraai]

On Thu, May 16, 2002 at 08:48:38PM -0700, Chris Tillman wrote:
> I was trying to build boot-floppies on powerpc, and it kept stopping
> after failing to download pcmcia-modules. 
> 
> I turned debug on, and finally figured out there is a mismatch between
> the debootstrap-...Packages file and kernel.sh. In the packages file,
> the package is named pcmcia-modules-2.4.18, but in kernel.sh it calls
> for pcmcia-modules-{$kernel_version}{$subarch-suffix} which translates
> to pcmcia-modules-2.4.18-newpmac.
> 
> I don't know if this is a bug in kernel.sh (probably not) or a bug 
> in the Packages file. I tried changing the Packages file first, but 
> it caught me doing that when the md5 didn't match and downloaded a 
> new one. So to get around the problem I removed $subarch-suffix from 
> kernel.sh on my local copy.

I don't think that is the right solution.  The real problem is
that pcmcia-modules-2.4.18-newpmac has been stuck in incoming
since April 2!

Matt



msg19900/pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

cvs commit to boot-floppies/utilities/dbootstrap/po by dancer

[Debian Boot CVS Master]

Repository: boot-floppies/utilities/dbootstrap/po
who:dancer
time:   Fri May 17 08:11:18 PDT 2002
Log Message:
  update ja.po, fix typo

Files:
changed:ja.po


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trouble with LILO (no multi-boot function)

[Smathers Drew]

Problems with LILO...

Installing Debian (potato kernel2.2 v6)
for the first time, I went ahead and put LILO in 
the MBR, assuming this would give me the convenience 
of choosing which OS to boot, as did the modified
version
of LILO that ships with Mandrake.

Here are my partitions for reference:

/dev/hda1FAT32
/dev/hda5Linux swap
/dev/hda6Linux
/dev/hda7Linux
/dev/hda8Linux swap
/dev/hda9Linux


Debian resides on hda5 and hda6, and Mandrake on those
after.
hda7 is the boot partition for Mandrake.

Unforntunately, I assumed wrong.  I did mount my other

partitions, Windows and Mandrake, and the files are 
accessible through Debian. I also reinstalled Debian
and chose not to install LILO to the MBR which did
what
I thought - it left a 'confused' LILO in the MBR.  So
now, 
when I boot from the hard drive, the following appears
on the 
screen:

LILO Loading ...

LILO Loading ...

And nothing after that.  No big problem there, though,
as
I can boot from the boot floppy.

I would like to boot into windows or mandrake.  Of
course,
the simplest thing would be to install Mandrake over
Debian, 
placing Mandrake's version of LILO in the MBR and then
reinstalling Debian, this time not messing with the
MBR and
choosing to boot from a floppy.  I do not know what
kind of 
effect this will have, however, and would like to
avoid the
trouble of a double reinstallation, if at all
possible.

Is there any way for me to just install Mandrake's
LILO into 
the MBR as the system is now, or make some
modifications to
Debian's LILO to allow me to choose which OS to boot?


__
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LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com


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Re: Severe limitation with flavor "bf2.4" !

[Nils Rennebarth]

On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 08:40:25AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 10:51:04AM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> > Why didn't you put it as a module ? It's really confusing ... since
> > other Debian kernels have it as a module.
> 
> I'd submit that installing things as modules with our system is *far*
> more confusing.
And it saves space. The increase of the kernelsize if you add ne2k compiled
in is much less than the size of ne2k.o  I tried that once and was surprised
by the amount of savings possible.


Nils

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(Muuuhh)
Global Village Sau  ==>^..^ |/¯
(Kann Fremdsprache) ==>(oo)



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Description: PGP signature

Re: boot floppies debian

[David Kimdon]

Fri, May 17, 2002 at 07:24:50PM +0300 wrote:
> Hello dwhedon,
> 
> AFAIK I didn't find russian in a previous (1-2 month ago) versions of
> boot-floppies.

You are right, but I believe newer disks have Russian.  Specifically,
CDROM installs should have Russian translations now.

> Does You want russian to be supported ?
Definately.

Russian isn't completely up to date right now.
$ make check-ru
ru.po: 792 translated messages, 45 fuzzy translations, 17 untranslated messages.
$

It is too late to update translations for woody, however, updates to
translations now can make it into point releases of boot-floppies.

-David


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cvs commit to boot-floppies/powerpc-specials/miBoot by toff

[Debian Boot CVS Master]

Repository: boot-floppies/powerpc-specials/miBoot
who:toff
time:   Fri May 17 20:35:59 PDT 2002
Log Message:
  script to change boot arguments in hfs-boot-floppy.img

Files:
added:  patch-floppy-image.pl


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Bug#147232: boot-floppies: rootfs not unmounted cleanly

[Chris Tillman]

On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 10:31:59AM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote:
> #include 
> Chris Tillman wrote on Thu May 16, 2002 um 08:13:15PM:
> 
> > I don't think we ever really determined what caused this. I was seeing
> > umount stubbornly refusing to umount once a target had been mounted
> > twice in the installer. Eduard put in a new losetup but I'm not sure
> > if he ever tested to see if there were stil zombies roaming around
> > after that (and whether that's actually related to this or not).
> 
> I did extensively and the syptoms are gone, at least on i386.
> 
> > > Anyway I just tried again (rescue disk, then immediately choose
> > > 'Reboot the System') and this time /dev/hdb2 was unmounted cleanly, no
> > > fsck'ing problem.  That is, the problem isn't easily reproducable.
> > 
> > Try mount, unmount, remount, and see if it happens then.

I tried this on powermac and didn't have any evidence of a problem.

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cvs commit to boot-floppies/documentation/en by toff

[Debian Boot CVS Master]

Repository: boot-floppies/documentation/en
who:toff
time:   Fri May 17 21:42:00 PDT 2002
Log Message:
  Add workaround for more than 20 partitions

Files:
changed:partitioning.sgml


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cvs commit to boot-floppies/debian by toff

[Debian Boot CVS Master]

Repository: boot-floppies/debian
who:toff
time:   Fri May 17 21:43:33 PDT 2002
Log Message:
  Add workaround for more than 20 partitions

Files:
changed:changelog


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Re: Your mail to Tony Finch (fanf@demon.net)

[Autoresponder]

Tony Finch no longer works at Demon Internet. 

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  (Tony Finch)

Thanks,

the Demon Internet mail team.


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