Re: Debian-NetBSD for 68k would ease porting issues ?
"Brian Morris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > to answer the original question, maybe: > > on the netbsd cd/mirror there is a mac directory and a > shared directory. i think the shared means other kinds > of 68k. there is more in the mac directory on netbsd than > you find in debian-linux-68k. some basic utility/toolchain stuff. > > But my impression is that things get more complicated later on, > or/and perhaps deeper in the code, that is maintaining the > 68k binaries is harder than it should be with them being > universal across brands. whereas with netbsd there is less > of that even among varieties of 68k, never mind higher up > to less competition with powerpc and intel sources. so even > if there are byte order problems those could be built from ppc > sources in netbsd straight away. once the 68k hardware is > successfully "abstracted" ??? > > > On 4/9/07, Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 06:59:20AM -0700, DataZap wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > With few exceptions (like the kernel) NetBSD is binary compatible across >> > the 68k ports. Is there a simple way to make this work in linux? >> >> I'm not sure I understand your question. Could you elaborate? The only think specific to the m68k model is the bootloader, kernel and X. Things that use the hardware or rom. Everything else will work across all m68k systems. So I fail to see your point. MfG Goswin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: libc update
On Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 07:26:57PM +0200, Riccardo wrote: > Hi, > > On Friday, April 13, 2007, at 02:25 PM, Stephen R Marenka wrote: > > >On Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 11:25:05AM +0200, Michael Schmitz wrote: > >>>in /etc/init.d/glibc.sh. Guess we ought to make sure that buildd > >>>hosts > >>>which still run 2.2 are either replaced or upgraded now. > >> > >>Are there any 2.2 hosts left? That would be Macs, most likely? > > Macs, yes. I've been unable to run anything newer than 2.2 on my IIfx > or Q950 (or if, there was too much funcitonality missing) > If there are improvments, I may try again. > > -R > I'm not sure how similar the Q610 and the Q950 are, but I have 2.6.18-4-mac running on a 24meg Q610. Both the ADB keyboard and mouse function. References to hwclock in rcS cause dumps (but ntpdate works fine.) I'm presently trying dist-upgrade to etch-m68k - should be finished in a day or two. Thanks, Larry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
time setting on 950
Hi, I tried finn's 2.6 kernel and I see ther eis proble, on Q950 at least. I hope that the scsi can be improved and that the IIfx will work soon. One f the nasty little things that is missing is the RTC support: the machiine boots always with "epoch". While the system time can be stet later, it is boring and also it means that initial file system check act strangely often. 2.2 kernel worked: is there some driver not working anymore? or was there some smart trick to get the date passed by penguin? In either case it would be nice to support it under 2.6 -Ric -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian-NetBSD for 68k would ease porting issues ?
my point is that IMHO there would be
far less chance of debian-68k discontinuing if
lenny were moved to debian-netbsd-68k instead
of debian-linux-68k. that would be just for the new
unstable/testing.
i don't see your logic at all either, maybe we are
just not communicating. the port is in danger of dying.
the design difference in netbsd is that there is more
difference than as you say, there is little with linux. but
it appears that results in fewer higher level differences.
to reiterate:
Netbsd: more difference with models ("platform" is i believe the
proper term) w/in 68k at kernel/toolchain level,
less issues at user level with practically no need for any separate
attention to 68k packages vis a vis any other processors (i386 typically)
that is why over there they don't build all binary. for the more
esoteric packages it suffices to test on any architecture/platform.
if people really think they want/need KDE for 68k they can build it
themselves (but most likely no one cares to and no one does)
Linux: little differeence with models w/in 68k , much more difference
of 68k with other architecture (aka i386).
Netbsd: apparently there are some packages known are Shared on
the installation images which are the intermediate level where the
brand of 68k does not matter but 68k matters for prebuilt binaries reason.
On 4/19/07, Goswin von Brederlow
The only think specific to the m68k model is the bootloader, kernel
and X. Things that use the hardware or rom. Everything else will work
across all m68k systems.
So I fail to see your point.
MfG
Goswin
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Can we have jigdo (cd templates)
hi i would like to make or have jigdo files which give the layout of files for a cd image, that then gets loaded up by packages from mirrors. because some people would prefer to have cds. or need them as in my case. (i load it up at work where i have a nice fast connection, not where the quadras live which is in a secluded corner with bad wiring and very flaky wireless ...) actually i would rather be able to set up my own nice list of packages or at least make up say a cd from combining the first two and leaving out kde and some other things. maybe i can edit some files from official debian, reference to powerpc replace by 68k somehow ?? Brian ps. thanks for NOT posting here where we can get this etch-m68k. i was assuming here for a while you guys were organizing behind the scenes but sometimes i wondered too if you all just quit. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: time setting on 950
On Fri, Apr 20, 2007 at 01:12:39AM +0200, Riccardo wrote: > Hi, > > I tried finn's 2.6 kernel and I see ther eis proble, on Q950 at least. > I hope that the scsi can be improved and that the IIfx will work soon. > One f the nasty little things that is missing is the RTC support: the > machiine boots always with "epoch". While the system time can be stet > later, it is boring and also it means that initial file system check > act strangely often. > > 2.2 kernel worked: is there some driver not working anymore? It worked on a 950? It didn't on mine. > or was there some smart trick to get the date passed by penguin? I go with crontab and ntpdate (ntpdate-debian). > In either case it would be nice to support it under 2.6 Ack. :) Peace, Stephen -- Stephen R. Marenka If life's not fun, you're not doing it right! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Debian-NetBSD for 68k would ease porting issues ?
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Brian Morris wrote:
> my point is that IMHO there would be far less chance of debian-68k
> discontinuing if lenny were moved to debian-netbsd-68k instead of
> debian-linux-68k.
Taking packages out of a distro and replacing them with something else is
hardly a way of keeping the distro alive. It is more like abandoning the
original intention and creating a different OS. (And how can you call two
different OS's the same distro (!) and say that this would keep the distro
alive?)
> that would be just for the new unstable/testing.
>
> i don't see your logic at all either, maybe we are just not
> communicating. the port is in danger of dying.
>
> the design difference in netbsd is that there is more difference than as
> you say, there is little with linux. but it appears that results in
> fewer higher level differences.
>
> to reiterate:
>
> Netbsd: more difference with models ("platform" is i believe the proper
> term) w/in 68k at kernel/toolchain level, less issues at user level with
> practically no need for any separate attention to 68k packages vis a vis
> any other processors (i386 typically) that is why over there they don't
> build all binary.
Your argument is to replace every Linux package with NetBSD packages if
the NetBSD one is easier to port?
Here's an alternative idea: improve Linux. If that doesn't interest you,
you are running the wrong OS.
For myself, I use Solaris, Mac OS X and Linux. From a shell scripting
point of view I actually prefer the BSD userland for some things. But so
what? Each OS has different strengths. I see no universally superior
choice to which everyone should migrate: and that applies to the
individual packages as much as to the entire OS. Choice is important.
If you are concerned that the port is dying, help out. But don't hitch
your wagon to a Linux distro if you don't agree with the aims of the
project.
If you think that the port is under-resourced, you are right. Now imagine
the situation where we might have (on m68k) Debian Linux, Debian NetBSD,
and NetBSD proper. Divided across 3 projects in this way, resources are
even more scarce. If anything, that is going to accelerate the demise of
the port.
Can we end this thread yet?
-f
> for the more esoteric packages it suffices to test on any
> architecture/platform. if people really think they want/need KDE for 68k
> they can build it themselves (but most likely no one cares to and no one
> does)
>
> Linux: little differeence with models w/in 68k , much more difference of
> 68k with other architecture (aka i386).
>
> Netbsd: apparently there are some packages known are Shared on the
> installation images which are the intermediate level where the brand of
> 68k does not matter but 68k matters for prebuilt binaries reason.
>
>
> On 4/19/07, Goswin von Brederlow
> > The only think specific to the m68k model is the bootloader, kernel
> > and X. Things that use the hardware or rom. Everything else will work
> > across all m68k systems.
> >
> > So I fail to see your point.
> >
> > MfG
> > Goswin
> >
>
>
>
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Re: Can we have jigdo (cd templates)
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Brian Morris wrote: > hi i would like to make or have jigdo files which give the layout of > files for a cd image, that then gets loaded up by packages from mirrors. Don't know. [snip] > > ps. thanks for NOT posting here where we can get this etch-m68k. Are you being sarcastic? There is no etch-m68k yet AFAIK. -f > i was assuming here for a while you guys were organizing behind the > scenes but sometimes i wondered too if you all just quit. > > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mac status, was Re: time setting on 950
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Stephen R Marenka wrote: > On Fri, Apr 20, 2007 at 01:12:39AM +0200, Riccardo wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I tried finn's 2.6 kernel and I see ther eis proble, on Q950 at least. > > I hope that the scsi can be improved and that the IIfx will work soon. > > One f the nasty little things that is missing is the RTC support: the > > machiine boots always with "epoch". While the system time can be stet > > later, it is boring and also it means that initial file system check > > act strangely often. > > > > 2.2 kernel worked: is there some driver not working anymore? > > It worked on a 950? It didn't on mine. > > > or was there some smart trick to get the date passed by penguin? > > I go with crontab and ntpdate (ntpdate-debian). If ntpd can't keep sync (?) I guess you'd have to. I'd be a bit worried about back-stepping the clock during make, though. > > In either case it would be nice to support it under 2.6 > > Ack. :) Indeed. I guess it is the most important bug to fix of all the outstanding bugs. I've finally put up the mac status info that I have collected. http://www.mac.linux-m68k.org/status/ ...there's more on the Q950 issues there. -f > Peace, > > Stephen > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian-NetBSD for 68k would ease porting issues ?
On Thu, Apr 19, 2007 at 05:32:30PM -0700, Brian Morris wrote:
>
> Netbsd: more difference with models ("platform" is i believe the
> proper term) w/in 68k at kernel/toolchain level,
how many different models do they support? I don't think there will be many
more than linux-m68k supports, we have linux-images (which is the only
package that has to be adapted to the m68k subarch) for amiga, atari, mac.
There used to be images for mvme147, mvme16x, bvme, q40, hp, sun3, but due
to lack of users, we are not building them anymore. That is, those images
were built, but there was no feedback if those images work, so building them
was switched off to save some time and avoid patch conflict problems. When
those users come back, we can turn building those images on again
immediately. Are there many netbsd-hp users that only wait to switch to
debian netbsd?
> less issues at user level with practically no need for any separate
> attention to 68k packages vis a vis any other processors (i386 typically)
So you are saying when a package uses ia32 asm code or compiler options, it
will still compile on m68k?
> Netbsd: apparently there are some packages known are Shared on
> the installation images which are the intermediate level where the
> brand of 68k does not matter but 68k matters for prebuilt binaries reason.
You can install any m68k deb on any m68k machine, they will run, even if it
is not very useful to have a partitioning tool for the mac running on your
atari. Which m68k packages can only be installed on one subarch? I have
never seen one of those.
But of course you can start debian-m68k/netbsd. I personally do not plan to
switch to netbsd as long as linux is legal to use. The reason that I
switched to debian at work 10 years ago, was that I used debian on my amiga.
It is so much nicer when you can use the same software, have the same
options and config files in the same place. Plus I like to have more than
one virtual console, I prefer white text on black background on the console,
and whatever else is different on netbsd. NetBSD will probably be fine, but
it will be different. But maybe you could convince the active netbsd
community to work on debian/netbsd?
Christian
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