[Debconf-team] Unfinished tasks from DebConf6
Hi, While discussing and planning future DebConfs is certainly exciting and, er... entertaining, there are those of us who recognise the importance of wrapping up already started work. Now that the dust seems to have settled temporarily, I'd like to know what tasks people still have pending from DebConf6, and what you all think we should do about them. This excludes things that are in progress, such as the video team work. It includes things that were unsettled or undecided before the administrative strife within this team escalated, and which are now probably being neglected. Here is a list of such tasks that I am aware of: * The Final Report * originally my task, now a total uncertainty since a number of aspects were undecided and it's unknown what the current goals are. * Sponsor packages/bags * intended to be sent to sponsors along with a copy of the Final Report * last known location (to my knowledge) of materials is with Gunnar; intended to be shipped to me for assembly and coordinated delivery to the sponsors. * A financial report * presumably to go with the book-keeping of DebConf6, as required (?) by Mexican authorities, other authorities and/or sponsors, * of which a summary was to be included in the sponsor packages. * Reimbursements * which I don't know the status of, and which are perhaps only lacking an informational message to an appropriate forum, * the amounts of which would be included in the financial report. This list is by no means complete, so please add to it if you can. Also, for the sake of brevity, I've left out most of the background details. It's somewhat unclear to me who is running the show at the moment and how the above tasks fit into the overall goals of that/those person(s). I would welcome more clarity here, especially from those who initiated and carried through the confusing delegation/de-delegation/breakup procedure. Are there any good reasons not to drop all these tasks and consider DebConf6 an abandoned project? -- Fabian Fagerholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
[Debconf-team] DebConf 7 montly meeting - seeking for proper dates
Hi! During preparation phase for next DebConf meetings have been proven very usefull (and sometimes even entertaining ;) Since some people newly joined the team (or are about to do so), we should see, if our current prefered dating scheme still fits. So far we always met on Mondays at 19:00 UTC. (You can use 'date -d "19:00 UTC"' to transfer that to your local timezone, meetings started at an monthly intervall and more often the nearer we got to debconf). If you would like to contribute to debconf and therefore attend our meetings as well but can't make it on Mondays at 19:00 UTC please speak up *NOW*! Feel free to propose a better time slot for meetings, but keep in mind, that we are an international project, which includes all those nice coordination and time zone problem ;) So far we have at least people from: UTC+2 (central europe) UTC+1 (great britain) UTC-3 (Brazil) UTC-5 (Mexico) Bonus points, if you can propose meeting times, which are okay for Bdale (I think UTC-7) and aj (UTC+10?). Yours sincerely, Alexander PS: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html is a nice thing to compare all those timezones. PPS: If you want to get DebConf 8 to your country and therefore want to get involved, this would be the perfect moment to speak up ;) PPPS: Yes, we could start a rotation scheme; but IMHO those don't work very well, since people tend to forget when actuall meetings are, therefore we would prefer a defined timeslot to be reserved for meetings ;) -- http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] DebConf 7 montly meeting - seeking for proper dates
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Hash: SHA1
On 07/25/2006 07:47 AM, Alexander Schmehl wrote:
> Hi!
>
> During preparation phase for next DebConf meetings have been
> proven very usefull (and sometimes even entertaining ;)
>
> Since some people newly joined the team (or are about to do so), we
> should see, if our current prefered dating scheme still fits.
>
> So far we always met on Mondays at 19:00 UTC. (You can use 'date -d
> "19:00 UTC"' to transfer that to your local timezone, meetings started
> at an monthly intervall and more often the nearer we got to debconf).
>
> If you would like to contribute to debconf and therefore attend our
> meetings as well but can't make it on Mondays at 19:00 UTC please speak
> up *NOW*!
In the next week my University classes will start again, a
great part of it will start at the end of the afternoon (19:30 UTC
until 00:30 UTC). Friday would be the best day for 19:00 UTC meetings
or any day but three or four hours earlier. (Mornings would be
great :D).
And, for the record, I'm on UTC-0300 (Brazil). At the end of the
year we will have Daylight Saving Time and Brazil will be UTC-0200 for a
couple of months.
> Feel free to propose a better time slot for meetings, but keep in mind,
> that we are an international project, which includes all those nice
> coordination and time zone problem ;)
>
> So far we have at least people from:
>
> UTC+2 (central europe)
> UTC+1 (great britain)
> UTC-3 (Brazil)
> UTC-5 (Mexico)
>
> Bonus points, if you can propose meeting times, which are okay for Bdale
> (I think UTC-7) and aj (UTC+10?).
Using 14:00 UTC we will have the table below, I don't know how hard
it would be to get that earlier ("Bdale") and to stand up until late ("aj"),
I also do not know about how people could deal with the meeting during the
day, but it seems a possible time that will fits everybody. :-)
USA ("Bdale") 07:00 (UTC-7)
Mexico: 09:00 (UTC-5)
Brasil: 11:00 (UTC-3)
Meeting Time: 14:00 (UTC)
Great Britain: 15:00 (UTC+1)
Central Europe: 16:00 (UTC+2)
Australia ("aj"): 24:00 (UTC+10)
> Yours sincerely,
> Alexander
> PS: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html is a nice thing
> to compare all those timezones.
> PPS: If you want to get DebConf 8 to your country and therefore want to
> get involved, this would be the perfect moment to speak up ;)
> PPPS: Yes, we could start a rotation scheme; but IMHO those don't work
> very well, since people tend to forget when actuall meetings are,
> therefore we would prefer a defined timeslot to be reserved for meetings
> ;)
Kind regards, (hope this helps)
- --
Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw)
"Debian. Freedom to code. Code to freedom!"
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Re: [Debconf-team] Unfinished tasks from DebConf6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 07/25/2006 06:45 AM, Fabian Fagerholm wrote: [...] > It's somewhat unclear to me who is running the show at the moment and > how the above tasks fit into the overall goals of that/those person(s). > I would welcome more clarity here, especially from those who initiated > and carried through the confusing delegation/de-delegation/breakup > procedure. Are there any good reasons not to drop all these tasks and > consider DebConf6 an abandoned project? Could we still ask Andreas help on these [1]list? I think it should be a good way to have a more complete list and to find out the right status of each task. Perhaps Andreas could help us to finish the DebConf6 tasks (even off-list or in some other way). 1.http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20060725.094551.e753e028.en.html Kind regards, - -- Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw) "Debian. Freedom to code. Code to freedom!" -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Debian - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFExhVwCjAO0JDlykYRAr1xAJ9AsdwioRw6S48FjzWRX+MrXdeGeQCdHHjM DBF9UO6fmoOVyz+H28pKmJY= =ZibG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] DebConf 7 montly meeting - seeking for proper dates
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alexander Schmehl) writes: > Bonus points, if you can propose meeting times, which are okay for Bdale > (I think UTC-7) and aj (UTC+10?). I'm actually UTC-6 this time of year. Regardless, don't worry about my schedule... it's pretty chaotic. Pick a time that's good for the *real* members of the team, and I'll show up when I can. ;-) Bdale ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] DebConf 7 montly meeting - seeking for proper dates
On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 12:47:22PM +0200, Alexander Schmehl wrote: > If you would like to contribute to debconf and therefore attend our > meetings as well but can't make it on Mondays at 19:00 UTC please speak > up *NOW*! I resume classes for the upcoming schoolyear on September 5. Starting then my availability becomes more limited. During US Daylight Saving Time (now until October 29 and again starting March 11), I am in timezone UTC-4 and will generally be busy Mon/Wed/Fri 1800-1900 UTC, Tue 1600-1700 UTC, Tue/Thu 1700-2000 UTC, and Mon/Tue 0200-0400 UTC, aside from school breaks where I might be more available. Between October 29 and March 11, my timezone is UTC-5 and all those times shift later one hour in UTC (Mon/Wed/Fri 1900-2000 UTC, Tue 1700-1800 UTC, Tue/Thu 1800-2100 UTC, Mon/Tue 0300-0500 UTC). Outside those times, assuming a normal university-CS-student UTC-4/UTC-5 sleep schedule, most of my waking hours should be fine with advance notice. I understand this schedule is somewhat different from the Europeans, but 1900 UTC is right in the middle of my day and I have classes then. The timezone changes I mentioned should apply to all of the eastern US, and maybe to some or all of eastern Canada. - Jimmy Kaplowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Unfinished tasks from DebConf6
* Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw) ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060725 14:57]: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 07/25/2006 06:45 AM, Fabian Fagerholm wrote: > [...] > > It's somewhat unclear to me who is running the show at the moment and > > how the above tasks fit into the overall goals of that/those person(s). > > I would welcome more clarity here, especially from those who initiated > > and carried through the confusing delegation/de-delegation/breakup > > procedure. Are there any good reasons not to drop all these tasks and > > consider DebConf6 an abandoned project? > > Could we still ask Andreas help on these [1]list? I think it > should be a good way to have a more complete list and to find out > the right status of each task. Perhaps Andreas could help us to > finish the DebConf6 tasks (even off-list or in some other way). > > 1.http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20060725.094551.e753e028.en.html with authority comes responsibility. i suggest that those that took away the authority now also take on the responsibility. /andreas ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Unfinished tasks from DebConf6
* Andreas Schuldei ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060725 21:36]: > * Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw) ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060725 14:57]: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 07/25/2006 06:45 AM, Fabian Fagerholm wrote: > > [...] > > > It's somewhat unclear to me who is running the show at the moment and > > > how the above tasks fit into the overall goals of that/those person(s). > > > I would welcome more clarity here, especially from those who initiated > > > and carried through the confusing delegation/de-delegation/breakup > > > procedure. Are there any good reasons not to drop all these tasks and > > > consider DebConf6 an abandoned project? > > > > Could we still ask Andreas help on these [1]list? I think it > > should be a good way to have a more complete list and to find out > > the right status of each task. Perhaps Andreas could help us to > > finish the DebConf6 tasks (even off-list or in some other way). > > > > 1.http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20060725.094551.e753e028.en.html > > with authority comes responsibility. i suggest that those that > took away the authority now also take on the responsibility. Actually, that is quite lame. Nobody doubts you were in charge for Debconf 6, so I think it's really still your task to finish off Debconf 6. Cheers, Andi -- http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/ ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Unfinished tasks from DebConf6
On 10726 March 1977, Andreas Schuldei wrote: >> Could we still ask Andreas help on these [1]list? I think it >> should be a good way to have a more complete list and to find out >> the right status of each task. Perhaps Andreas could help us to >> finish the DebConf6 tasks (even off-list or in some other way). > with authority comes responsibility. Yup, which you took/had for DC6... This is still DC6 work. > i suggest that those that took away the authority The team did not took it away, you resigned. > now also take on the responsibility. You know, this is something the team needs to do, not the DPL who took away the delegation? -- bye Joerg Wie gesagt, mein /proc/kcore ist 536MB gross und ich würde meinen Rechner gern davon befreien. Ein rm -f schlägt fehl! Ein Reboot hat auch nix geholfen. -- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Unfinished tasks from DebConf6
* Joerg Jaspert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060725 22:50]: > On 10726 March 1977, Andreas Schuldei wrote: > > >>Could we still ask Andreas help on these [1]list? I think it > >> should be a good way to have a more complete list and to find out > >> the right status of each task. Perhaps Andreas could help us to > >> finish the DebConf6 tasks (even off-list or in some other way). > > with authority comes responsibility. > > Yup, which you took/had for DC6... This is still DC6 work. > > > i suggest that those that took away the authority > > The team did not took it away, you resigned. Some (or all?) in the team took it, as well as others outside the team. A team leader gets authority from the team which follows and trusts the leader and/or expresses support when the authority of the leader is in question. Also see "dict authority". A removal of a delegation is also an expression of distrust and removal of authority and of course also the responsibility. In this case the lack of trust in the leader does not start or end in making a sound decision (not alone but together with others) about which would be the best location for the next conf, it also was about personal leadership, ability to change and take critique, and being objective and perhaps even benevolent. So the removed authority (and corresponding responsibility) was in no way only limited to the debconf7 location but rather about debconf in general. I am sure there are people who disagree with that, but then it is my perception that counts in this regard, because it is also my time and my engery. ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Unfinished tasks from DebConf6
On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 11:21:17PM +0200, Andreas Schuldei wrote: > I am sure there are people who disagree with that, but then it is > my perception that counts in this regard, because it is also my > time and my engery. It's your decision to refuse to complete the job that you willingly took on, increasing the amount of work that other people must now carry out and potentially reducing the quality of the final work. You absolutely have the right to make that decision, but as you make quite clear it's *your* decision - you haven't been forced into making it. -- Matthew Garrett | [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Unfinished tasks from DebConf6
Andreas, On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 11:21:17PM +0200, Andreas Schuldei wrote: > So the removed authority (and corresponding responsibility) was > in no way only limited to the debconf7 location but rather about > debconf in general. Right now I'm not going to address the issue of whether you should or should not help finish DebConf6 matters, but I will point out that in the email where the DPL made the delegation which he later withdrew, it was clearly limited in scope to be about "the decision of which of the two cities [i.e. EDI and SJJ] will host the next DebConf [i.e., DebConf7]", and not related to anything else about DebConf. Similarly, in his withdrawal email, he refers to the delegation as being about "the decision on where to hold DebConf 2007" or "the venue decision". Check the emails for yourself if you don't recall these details. It appears to me that him granting a delegation beyond what was already the status quo and then removing it leaves the status quo unchanged from before the delegation, and it further seems that none of this needs to affect your status in or involvement with the DebConf team, either for DebConf6 issues or beyond. Certainly most other DebConf team members whose delegations were granted and withdrawn seem to have interpreted it that way. How you react is, of course, your decision. - Jimmy Kaplowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Unfinished tasks from DebConf6
Hi! * Andreas Schuldei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [060725 23:21]: > I am sure there are people who disagree with that, but then it is > my perception that counts in this regard, because it is also my > time and my engery. Yes, it is your time, energy and decission. And yes, we accept your decission. But please understand, that it is our decission to tell you, how disapointed we are of you by first failing to lead the team, then not even helping us to get the job done, by helping us creating a list of open tasks. I don't think that's to much to ask from a former leader to help get a clean "transfer of duty" so to speak. Okay, so let's go on, and do it without him. Yours sincerely, Alexander PS: I want [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Unfinished tasks from DebConf6
Hi Jimmy, you used the right words, it "appears" and it "seems" to you that this was a "status quo" state, but it might not have reflected the state as it has actually been in. Regards, Safir > Andreas, > > On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 11:21:17PM +0200, Andreas Schuldei wrote: >> So the removed authority (and corresponding responsibility) was >> in no way only limited to the debconf7 location but rather about >> debconf in general. > > Right now I'm not going to address the issue of whether you should or > should not help finish DebConf6 matters, but I will point out that in > the email where the DPL made the delegation which he later withdrew, it > was clearly limited in scope to be about "the decision of which of the > two cities [i.e. EDI and SJJ] will host the next DebConf [i.e., > DebConf7]", and not related to anything else about DebConf. Similarly, > in his withdrawal email, he refers to the delegation as being about "the > decision on where to hold DebConf 2007" or "the venue decision". Check > the emails for yourself if you don't recall these details. > > It appears to me that him granting a delegation beyond what was already > the status quo and then removing it leaves the status quo unchanged from > before the delegation, and it further seems that none of this needs to > affect your status in or involvement with the DebConf team, either for > DebConf6 issues or beyond. Certainly most other DebConf team members > whose delegations were granted and withdrawn seem to have interpreted it > that way. How you react is, of course, your decision. > > - Jimmy Kaplowitz > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ___ > Debconf-team mailing list > Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org > http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team > > ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] DebConf 7 montly meeting - seeking for proper dates
On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 12:47:22PM +0200, Alexander Schmehl wrote: > >If you would like to contribute to debconf and therefore attend our >meetings as well but can't make it on Mondays at 19:00 UTC please speak >up *NOW*! Monday, 19:00 UTC is normally fine for me... -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.[EMAIL PROTECTED] "You can't barbecue lettuce!" -- Ellie Crane ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Unfinished tasks from DebConf6
I'll use this email to reply and voice my opinion on this discussion. On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 23:58 +0200, Alexander Schmehl wrote: > Hi! > > * Andreas Schuldei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [060725 23:21]: > > > I am sure there are people who disagree with that, but then it is > > my perception that counts in this regard, because it is also my > > time and my engery. > > Yes, it is your time, energy and decission. And yes, we accept your > decission. But please understand, that it is our decission to tell you, > how disapointed we are of you by first failing to lead the team, then > not even helping us to get the job done, by helping us creating a list > of open tasks. First of all, I haven't been to DebConf6 and haven't seen much of how it was organised. But I did see DebConf5 in full, including Andreas' leadership. To me it seems the very harsh criticism is misdirected, at least some or most of it. Andreas has done a wonderful job organising great Debian conferences. Perhaps you disapprove of his leadership style, but does that mean you should hang all current and past problems on his shoulders? DebConf, as Debian, is a communal effort and the final responsibility falls on those involved in it. If something is amiss or plain wrong, we fix it together. We don't start blaming a single person, that's just plain wrong. No single person can organise a DebConf, it's the causal effort of our community that converges into a successful DebConf, and that includes participants as well as organisers. > > I don't think that's to much to ask from a former leader to help get a > clean "transfer of duty" so to speak. > Okay, so let's go on, and do it without him. In principle you are right, but in this case I am not entirely sure. Each of you in this thread make it seem as if it was a clean choice by Andreas to stop being involved. While I might not know about all issues involved, to me it seems he had no choice but to resign. It seems to me that some people have made certain moves that have resulted in his 'forced' resignation. I am not saying that Andreas would not have made mistakes himself. But it is clear to me that it's not his actions alone that caused the mess we are in now. Based on my perception I have decided not be involved in DC7 until the dust has settled even more, and depending on what happens/happened at that moment I might not be involved at all. Just my thoughts, Aschwin ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
