date:20030731

欢迎莅临参观"2003中国西部塑料橡胶工业（重庆）

2003-07-31 Thread 塑料橡胶产业报道

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业务合作

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欢迎莅临参观"2003中国西部塑料橡胶工业（重庆）

2003-07-31 Thread 13

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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:22:10 +0800
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Îâ¹ÙÕýÍ¬Ö¾Ïò¡°ÎåÒ»¡±ÆÚ¼ä¼á³ÖÉú²úµÄ¸É²¿Ö°¹¤±íÊ¾Ç×ÇÐÎ¿ÎÊ¡£ÔÚ´óÇìÊ¯»¯·Ö¹«Ë¾£¬Îâ¹ÙÕýÍ¬Ö¾Ëµ£¬´óÇìÊ¯»¯40¶àÄêÀ´Îª¹ú¼Ò×÷³öÁË¾Þ´ó¹±Ï×£¬½üÄêÀ´£¬¸÷¼¶µ³×éÖ¯

Medication at our Pharmacy online y

2003-07-31 Thread Elton Villegas

Wholesale Prescription MedicationsOur Doctors will write your PrescriptionYou pay only the wholesale price on your Medication.Weight loss Pain relief Women's health PhentermineCelebrexOrtho tri-cyclenMeridiaTramadolNordette 28XenicalUltramMenoproAnti-depressantsMen's healthEnhancementProzacViagr@BustProZoloftPropeciaV-pro...And many many moreAll Medications Prescribed & Delivered OvernightBottom Prices - No Prior Prescription RequiredEnter HereNo thanks, please take me outedgerton franc penitentiary teflon populace chalice chinch corpus illume waterhouse errata testes commission finnish locomotor cos doldrums agile dukedom duff careful ammonium nj combinatoric till adobe omelet helmsmen seamstress anther

±ÜÃâ´íÎóµÄÍâÃ³¿ª·¢·½Ê½!

2003-07-31 Thread ÍâÏú²ßÂÔ

Title: 拓展外贸，你用的方法正确吗?





  　

  

  

  
  EZLink
Internation Trade net->www.1zlink.net


  



  

  
◎您的外贸行销方式正确吗?有效吗?◎
  



  
  
 错的外贸行销方式：
  
  


在现今全球产量过剩的时代，还依循传统方式开拓外销，"被动"等客户找您下单。
  
  


沿用传方式”参加展览”等待客户来摊位找您？
  
  


沿用传统方式”刊登杂志”、媒体、广告、碰运气等待客户来找您？
  
  


沿用”网络广告”将产品图片放在网站里等待客户来找您？
  
  

  


  

  
  
上列所有行销方式，在全球产量过剩的时刻，等待客户来找您，效果当然不好，让我们来分析如何是对的行销方式..
  
  

  


  

  
  
对的外贸行销方式：
  
  


  直接与全球所有进口贵公司产品的买家直接连络，主动的推荐，效果最好，接单您会发觉变得很简单。

  
  


  不要散弹打鸟式的寄送开发信，要找出特定相对进口商，拓展行销，效果一定好。

  
  


  不要再浪费大量资源依循传统，参展或刊登杂志广告，因为这两种方式是在信息不透明的时代里，买方找不到卖方，卖方找不到买方所孕育而生的产物。现今倍速时代，因特网最大的贡献在于信息透明化，并在极短的时间内，可将您的产品，让全球买家都知道，节省大量的行销费用，成果更是天壤之别，好得让您惊讶！

  
  



  
  

  "国际贸易联讯网"所有加入会员，业绩都倍数的成长；其实我们只是运用了上述的外贸行销观念加上我们建构全球进口商丰富的数据库实时的买方采购商机，并运用了我们研发技术，将搜寻相对进口商与传递买卖数据讯息，在极短的时间，立刻完成，使得两年的业绩量可于两个月内达成，业绩当然提高数倍！

  
  


  

   因为"国际贸易联讯网"拥有：



  

  
一、拥有最丰富的数据库:
  
  

  
  

1、拥有全球55万多家进口商资料.
  
  

  
　
  

2、有全球5万多笔客户实时购买商机.
  
  

  
　
  

3、有类分项的进口厂商快速查询.
  
  
二、最快速的开发国际市场，效果让您惊讶：
  
  

   


  运用丰富的数据库及高科技之技术，我们替会员查询全球买主(进口商)。并代为E-mail于买方，成效快速，订单接连而来。

  
  
三、最专业的外销产品网站专业设计公司：
  
  

   


  国际贸易联讯网针对外销贸易与买方互动之程序，制作功能性网站
  ，与一般网页设计差异甚多．一般网页设计公司仅将传统之平面广告或型录
  改变为网页展示而已，国际贸易联讯网除着重网页编排之美感外，更重视外贸业务，下单流程所需的后端程序，使得询价，沟通下单变得容易且快速。

  
  
四、最全面的全球网络广告让人不得不看到您：
  
  

   


  广告的第一要务是要让买方能够看到您的公司与产品，但要达此效果，通常要花费巨资方可能如愿。国际贸易联讯网的优惠工程师，应用研发技术，为您克服困难。我们帮会员连结全球知名搜寻引擎及布告栏，使得买家上网不得不看到您，当然增加了交易的可能性，订单自然源源而来。

  

  

  


  
  
我们很荣幸的将会员以往两年才能完成的订单（业绩），提前至２个月完成，会员惊叹，不可思议，这正是”国际联讯网”运用丰富的数据库、网络的倍数功能，与正确的外贸行销理念，所结合的完美结晶！
  
  "国际贸易联讯网"矢志成为全球第一大贸易网，扩大招收会员，
  自即日起强力推出0805特惠专案。

  
  


  
  

  
招收VIP会员
特价8.7折优惠至本年8月05日截止
  
  
  


  前100名新加入半年

Your Friend Sent U This!

2003-07-31 Thread Amazin Humor

+
   The Amazin Humor Newsletter - July 31, 2003
+


o Funny Picture - "From a Friend"

Your friend sent U this.

http://www.amazinhumor.com/c.php?i=21
http://amazinhumor.com/c.php?i=21";> Go Now 



o Funny Joke - "Bill and Bush"

These guys just crack me up.

http://www.amazinhumor.com/c.php?i=22
http://amazinhumor.com/c.php?i=22";> Go Now 



o Did You Know?

A toothpick is the object most often choked on by Americans.






---
Kevin Smith, Newsletter Editor

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fashion watches for your reference

2003-07-31 Thread Besco-Watch & Clock Ltd.

Title: Besco Watch & Clock Ltd

	

	
		
			

	
   

			


			
		
		
			

 BESCO 
  Watch & Clock Ltd  Date:2003-7-31   WP0037  FASHION-012 
			
		
		
		

 
  BESCO WATCH 
& CLOCK LTD. is 
the most creative and specialized supplier of watch and clock 
industry in China, leading the line of both quality and premium 
watch & clock. 

With the principle of capacity and sincerity, we serve our 
customer with P.D.M.S. General Solution. 
  
   
(Plan)  P  
  
  
General plan on 
  business or gift and premium program. 
  
   
(Design)  D  
The creative designing team, 
  comprised of first-rate designers home and abroad, can 
  provide you systematic service. OEM & ODM are both 
  welcomed 
   
  
   
(Manufacture)  M  
We have achieved international 
  standard level. The punctuality, quality and quantity 
  is the basic promise of us international enterprise.
    
  
   
(Sourcing)   S  
We recommend most of the novelties 
  and exquisite watches & clocks in China.
  

Time will enhance our mutual understanding, 
  hoping in the trip of future business, we could co-operate 
  intimately!


  
  

  
			
   

  (Reply the email with subject "REMOVE" 
  to unsubscribe) 
			
		
		
  

			
			
  
 
   


 

 
  






 







Item No

FS0065

Item Name
 


FOB GZ(USD)
 
$1.89 (Qty<=5,000) $1.79 (5,001 - 20,000) $1.68 (Qty>20,000)

Movement
 
PC21

Size
 


Material
 
Alloy Case/Alloy Band

M.O.Q
 
500PCS 

Delivery Time
 
15days

Meas./CTN
 
56*40*30cm / 500pcs

G.W./N.W.
 
16kgs / 15kgs

Packing
 
Each in poly bag,then 500pcs in a master carton.

Description
 


 
  






 







Item No

FS0100

Item Name
 
Roll Watch

FOB GZ(USD)
 
$1.58 (Qty<=5,000) $1.49 (5,001 - 20,000) $1.39 (Qty>20,000) 

Movement
 
PC21

Size
 


Material
 
Alloy Case/Alloy Band

M.O.Q
 
600PCS 

Delivery Time
 
15days

Meas./CTN
 
56*40*30cm / 300pcs

G.W./N.W.
 
13kgs / 12kgs

Packing
 
Each in poly bag,then 300pcs in a master carton.

Description
 


 
  






 







Item No

FS0111

Item Name
 


FOB GZ(USD)
 
$1.58 (Qty<=5,000) $1.49 (5,001 - 20,000) $1.39 (Qty>20,000)

Movement
 
PC21

Size
 


Material
 
Alloy Case/Alloy Band

M.O.Q
 
1K 

Delivery Time
 
15days

Meas./CTN
 
56*40*30cm / 1000pcs

G.W./N.W.
 
11kgs / 10 kgs

Packing
 
Each in poly bag,then 1000pcs in a master carton.

Description
 
  

 
  

BESCO WATCH & CLOCK LTD.
Head Office:26/F,Construction Bank Building,No.509,DongFengZhong
Road,GuangZhou,China,510045
TEL:+86-20-83606808 
FAX:+86-20-83606922
Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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2003-07-31 Thread Marvin Banks





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Bmm - Fwd: Regarding your prescription - It's Ready! u wrfrm peaetxmknft rhon

2003-07-31 Thread Jerrold Rivas

Dear Bmm,

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BUSINESS PROPOSAL

2003-07-31 Thread MR USMAN YAHAYA

OFFICE OF THE CHAIRMAN 
CONTRACT AWARDING & PROCUREMENT COMMITTEE 
ECONOMIC COMMUNITY OF WEST AFRICAN STATES (ECOWAS) HEADQUARTERS 
LOME REPULIC OF TOGO 
Please Reply through E-mail: ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
 
 Dear sir ,

Iam usman yahaya the chairman, contract awarding and 
procurement committee of economic community of west African states with 
headquarters in lome Togo 
I got your information in the web directory
 when l was searching for a reliable, honest and
trustworthy person to entrust this business with.
l was simply inspired and motivated to pick your contact 

 
 
after discussing my view and your profile with my colleagues , they 
were very much satisfied and we decided to contact you immediately for this 
mutual business relationship.
 
 We wish to transfer the sum of (Twelve million,five hundred thousand 
unitedstates dollars) USD12.500 000.00 to your company account. 

This fund was a residue of the over invoiced contract bills awarded by us for the 
supply of ammunitions, hard/ softwares, pharmaceutical and medical items, light 
and heavy duty vehicles, apparels and other administrative logistics etc for 
ECOMOG in sierra-Leone and Liberia during the peace keeping projects this deal 
was deliberately hatched out and carefully protected with all attendant 
lope holes sealed off. As the chairman of (CAC), l have the cooperation and 
mandate of the financial director of the organization.
 
 We arranged and over invoiced the contract funds supplied by different
companies from different countries during the crisis.
 
It was our consensus to seek the assistance of a willing foreigner to provide us with 
the 
facilities to transfer this money out of west Africa this is born out of our belief 
in the non- stable and spurious political nature of this sub-region. 

The original contractors have been duly paid by banque centarle des etats de l, 
afrique del ouest (central bank of the west African states) through our banker 
-ECO-BANK this balance is suspended in the escrow accounts awaiting claims by any 
foreign company of our choice. 

We intend to pay out this fund NOW as the 
organization is winding up its activities since the aim of returning PEACE to the 
countries and the coast has been achieved. Based on the law and ethics of 
employments, we as civil servants working under this organization, are not allowed to 
operate a foreign account. 

This is the more reason why needed your
 assistance to provide an account that can sustain this fund for safe 
keeping and our future investment with your comprehensive advise, assistance 
and partnership in your country .

it is however agreed, as the account owner 
in this deal to allow you 20% of the total sum as compensation, 75% be held on 
trust for us while 5% will be used to defray any incidenental charges and cost 
during the course of the transaction .
 
this transaction will be successfully concluded within 14 days if you 
accord us your unalloyed and due co-operation you should provide the following 
YOURCOMPANY NAME WITH COMPLETE ADDRESS , TEL AND FAX NUMBERS, the name of 
your bank its address, TEL/FAX AND TELEX NUMBER. THE COMPLETE MAIL ADDRESS OF THE
BENEFICIARY upon the receipt of this information, the document and 
approvals with texts will be sent to you for confirmation and then forwarded to 
the organization for ratification and Subsequent payment, as with the case 
of all organized (sensitive) and conspired DEAL, so we solicit for your 
unreserved Confidentiality and Utmost secret in this business .we hope to retire 
peacefully and lead a honorable business life after ward. There is no risk 
involve. Call meupon the receipt of this massage for more details on my telephone 
number alternative e-mail([EMAIL PROTECTED])for more 
details reply
ASAP 
 
thanks for your proper understanding with regards
 USMAN YAHAYA

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2003-07-31 Thread Protection Alert

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[SPAM] GREETINGS

2003-07-31 Thread HON DR.Eddington Varmah

FROM:Minister of Justice, Eddington Varmah

REPUBLIC OF LIBERIA

Dear Partner

 SEEKING IMMEDIATE ASSISTANCE.

Greetings to you, I wish to seek your assistance in a project I will
reveal to you shortly. My name is HON DR Eddington Varmah Minister of
Justice. Republic of Liberia. I am very a close friend and colleague
of President Charles Taylor of the Republic of LIBERIA


I want to believe you are very much aware of what is happening in my
country right now I mean the uprising and the rebels demanding the head
of the Goverment in my country and the need for this Government to leave
office as soon as possible and for the fact that President
Charles Taylor as agreed to leave the country in the interest of the
people of Liberia and which means we too must have to leave Liberia
beacuse I am still in the Governmet also  . And I want you to know that my
mail reason of contacting you is that President Charles
Taylor has secretly confided in me to take some funds abroad to keep in
a secret account, which will be used to fight opposition forces back
home in the Liberia before now. He gave me thirty Million United States
Dolla(US$30,000,000.00) cash which I deposited in the custody
of a private Security trust firm in Europe so,



I am writing you in absolute confidence primarily to seek your
assistance to transfer our cash of thirty Million Dollars ($30,000.000.00)
now
in the custody of a private
Security trust firm in Europe the money is in trunk boxes deposited and
declared as family valuables by me,  as a matter of fact the company
does not know the content is money, although I made them to under stand
that the boxes belongs to my foreign partner and not President Charles
Taylor as we do not want any body to know about this
funds mind you we used his power I mean President Charles Taylor to
carry the funds out of the country.



With all these trouble, I couldn't travel out of the country at the
moment as I do not want any formal link with me and the funds right now as I
am hoping to go Ghana or nigeria to seek political Asylum as soon as the
peace
keepers troupe arrives Liberia within the next few weeks.

so I decided to keep it safely as a secret and couldn't tell anyone in
my country for the safety of my life.

Though we have neither seen nor met each other, I know we will be able
to establish all the trust that we need to ensure that the funds is
safe with you.  Thus, if you are willing to assist me to move this fund to
your account and your country for safe keeping, you can  contact me
through my email address sending your telephone and fax
numbers to enable us discuss the modalities and what your share
(percentage) for assisting me will be. I will
highly appreciate it if my request is given utmost priority and
consideration.


So I humbly solicit your assistance in the followings ways.

1. To assist me claim this boxes from the security
 Firm as our beneficiary

2. To transfer this money (USD$30M) in your name to your country


3. to make a good arrangement for a joint business investment on my
behalf in your country and you, our Adviser/ Manager For your assistance,
I have agreed  that 20% of the total amount will be for your effort and
another 10 % to cover all the expenses like phone calls and fax that may
incur
during the business transaction, Last, I urge you to keep this
transaction strictly confidential as no one knows our where about.


FOR MORE INFROMATIONS SEE BELOW.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200307130045.html

http://allafrica.com/stories/200307130102.html

http://allafrica.com/stories/200307130361.html

http://www.un.org/esa/africa/UNNews_Africa/urge.htm

http://www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/0/5e9256f6048cf0ecc1256d41005af572?OpenDocument


Best Regards,

HON DR.Eddington Varmah

CONGRATULATIONS

2003-07-31 Thread Julia Henk





SUBJECT: LOTTERY WINNING INFORMATION


PREMIUM TRUST AGENCY
(ACCREDITED LICENSED AGENT TO GLOBAL LOTTERY INTERNATIONAL)


Ref. Nnumbe: 132/756/4007
Batch Number: 538901527-BB67

Sir/Madam

We are pleased to inform you about the result of
the Lottery Winners International programs held on the 24th July,
2003. Your e-mail address attached to ticket number 27511465896-6410 with
serial number 3772-510 drew lucky numbers 7-14-88-23-31-45 which
consequently won in the 1st category, you have therefore been approved for a lump sum
pay out of US$ 1,000,000.00 (One Million United States Dollars)

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Due to the mix up of some numbers and name's  we ask that you keep your
winning information confidential until your claims has been processed and
your money Remitted to you. This is part of our security protocol
to avoid double claiming and unwarranted abuse of this program by some
participants.

All participants were selected through a computer ballot system drawn
from over 20,000 company and 30,000,000 individual email addresses and names
from all over the world. This promotional program takes place every three years.

This lottery was promoted by the software corporation to compensate some few 
individuals with website and email addresses,  we hope that with part of your winning 
you will take part in our next year USD50 million international lottery. To file for 
your
claim, please contact our
FIDUCIAL AGENT: Mr. Eric Donalds  of  GLOBAL TRUST AGENCY.

TEL: 0031-630-436-827

FAX: 0031-645-260-302

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Remember, all winning must be claimed not later than 15th of August 2003. After this 
date all unclaimed funds will be included in the next stake.
Please note in order to avoid unnecessary delays and complications
please remember to quote your reference number and batch numbers in all
correspondence. Furthermore, should there be any change of address do
inform our agent as soon as possible.

Congratulations once more from our members of staff and thank you for
being part of our promotional program.

Note: Anybody under the age of 18 is automatically disqualified.

Sincerely yours,

Mrs. Julia Henk
(Lottery Coordinator)

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Re: Pentagon discovers Assasination Politics, deadpools

2003-07-31 Thread Sunder

Yes, but he's retired, so why would he be displeased. :)

--Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---
 + ^ + :25Kliters anthrax, 38K liters botulinum toxin, 500 tons of   /|\
  \|/  :sarin, mustard and VX gas, mobile bio-weapons labs, nukular /\|/\
<--*-->:weapons.. Reasons for war on Iraq - GWB 2003-01-28 speech.  \/|\/
  /|\  :Found to date: 0.  Cost of war: $800,000,000,000 USD.\|/
 + v + :   The look on Sadam's face - priceless!   
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net 

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Mike Rosing wrote:

> On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Tyler Durden wrote:
> 
> > PS: Does Variola feel insulted if we do not address him with his rank?
> 
> Nope:
> 
>  variola major virus : n) :a type of smallpox virus that has a fatality
> rate of up to 25 percent
> 
> It's not rank, but I assume he'll be displeased if you call him "minor
> variola" instead :-)

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RE: Secure IDE?

2003-07-31 Thread Trei, Peter

> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> 
> "Trei, Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> >No info on chaining modes, if any, nor of IV handling.
> 
> DES/ECB, originally with a 40-bit key, more recently with 56-bit and 3DES.
> Keys generated by the manufacturer onto a USB dongle.  No easy way to make
> backups of the dongle.  It's a messy tradeoff: If you want something like
> laptop/data-theft-protection (which will suit the majority of the market),
> then DES-40/ECB is fine, but you want to be able to back up the dongle
> because
> if that goes (and after multiple insertions and removals it will) you've
> lost
> all your data.  OTOH if you want protection from the MIB the fragile
> nature of
> the key storage is probably a benefit, but then you want 3DES/CBC to go
> with
> it.  At the moment you have laptop-theft-protection crypto and
> MIB-protection
> key storage.
> 
> You can buy truckloads of these things on ebay for about $20 a pop if you
> want
> to play with one.
> 
> Peter.
> 
Color me dissapointed. 

It's a move in the right direction, but I wish they had followed through and
done the right things:

* [AES | 3DES]/CBC with a good distribution of IVs
* User-generated keys (before initial disk setup, of course).
* Shutdown on dongle removal.
* Some kind of PIN or password protection on the dongle.

eNova claims not to keep a database of keys (they don't
say that 'there is no database of keys', which is a little
different), and to get a key copied you have to send it to
them. They do seem to supply a spare.

Back a few years ago, I calculated that with the DES key
search software then available, a single 200MHz machine
could search 40 bits of keyspace over a long weekend. 
Today it would take a few hours.

40 bit DES is not secure against your kid sister (if she's
a cypherpunk :-), much less industrial espionage.

Quote from
http://www.abit.com.tw/abitweb/webjsp/english/mb_spec.jsp?pPRODUCT_TYPE=Moth
erBoard&pMODEL_NAME=SecureIDE :

"40-bit DES (US Data Encryption Standard) is adequate 
for general users"

Yeah. Right.

Peter

Re: Japan making RFID-trackable cash

2003-07-31 Thread R. A. Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text

Status:  U
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:08:39 +0100
Subject: Re: Japan making RFID-trackable cash
From: "David G.W. Birch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Digital Bearer Settlement <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: Bob Hettinga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

On 31/7/03 3:41 am, Bill Stewart e-said:

> Japan's starting to add RFIDs to their 1-yen (~$100) bills.
> Notes will come with Hitachi's 0.3mm "mew-chip"

To protect against cat-burglars?

Regards,
Dave Birch.

P.S. It's "Mu" chip, as in the Greek letter.

-- 
-- My own opinion (I think) given solely in my capacity
-- as an interested member of the general public.
--
-- mail dgw(at)birches.org, web http://www.birches.org/dgwb

--- end forwarded text

-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

RE: Secure IDE?

2003-07-31 Thread Trei, Peter

> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> "Trei, Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> >It's a move in the right direction, but I wish they had followed through
> and
> >done the right things:
> >
> >* [AES | 3DES]/CBC 
> 
> I get the feeling they use ECB for speed (heavy pipelining) rather than
> cluelessness.
> 
Possibly - they're using an ASIC, so I'd have thought that speed would not
be the issue. I have not run the numbers.

> >with a good distribution of IVs
> 
> Where would you store them?  The feature of this is that it's fully
> transparent, so you can't store IVs anywhere.
> 
I'm not really up on crypto file systems, but I beleive at least some
use the sector address as the IV. IVs don't need to be random,
secret, or unpredictable - they just need to be unrepeated. (I'm
assuming sector-at-a-time encryption).

> >* User-generated keys (before initial disk setup, of course).
> 
> That one's the only thing I can't find a good technical reason for...
> perhaps
> it's just commercial, since they see the dongles as a revenue source and
> will
> sell you software to set up n dongles yourself, where price is
> proportional to
> n.
> 
Having the user generate the key and load it on the dongle 
means that he has good assurance that the manufacturer doesn't 
have the key. Any kind of backup will open a possible route of
attack. If the user can specify the raw key value (it's short - this
is symmetric crypto), they can choose their own backup - up to
and including writing it on paper and carefuly hiding it.

> >* Some kind of PIN or password protection on the dongle.
> 
> How would you do this without a custom BIOS (remember that their general
> product is for dropping into any PC)?
> 
We're talking about two different products. The ABIT is a MB, 
presumably with it's own custom BIOS, so that's not an issue 
there. 

> >40 bit DES is not secure against your kid sister (if she's a cypherpunk
> :-),
> >much less industrial espionage.
> 
> I'm more worried about key backup - it's bad enough having
> cheapest-possible-
> components IDE drives without complicating it further with a second point
> of
> failure.  In the meantime a better option is still the triumvirate of:
> 
> - Sensitive data saved only to RAM disk.
> 
> - 3DES-encrypted volume mounted as a filesystem, which I can back up in
>   encrypted form if necessary, and with all crypto done in software with
> per-
>   sector random IVs, user-generated keys, and all the other stuff you
> asked
>   for.
> 
> - Encrypted swap.
> 
> (Oh yeah, and a UPS so you're not tempted to temporarily save stuff to
> disk
>  elsewhere in case the RAM drive goes away suddenly).
> 
> >"40-bit DES (US Data Encryption Standard) is adequate for general users"
> >
> >Yeah. Right.
> 
> If you're worried about Joe Burglar grabbing your laptop (for the value of
> the
> laptop) and your business data being leaked as collateral damage, or
> someone
> stumbling across your warez or pr0n, then it's probably adequate.  Since
> this
> is what general users would be worried about, I'd agree with the
> statement.
> Anyone worried about more than that (probably about 0.01% of the market)
> isn't
> a general user any more.
> 
> Peter.(G)
> 
Peter (T)

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2003-07-31 Thread =?gb2312?q?=B7=EB=D0=A1=BD=E3_

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PARTERNASHIP

2003-07-31 Thread NELSON IBE

NNPC LAGOS ANNEX OFFICE
VICTORIA ISLAND,
LAGOS-NIGERIA.




Dear ,
  
May I crave your indulgence to open this business discussion by a formal letter of 
this sort.  It is pertinent that a business of this magnitude should have commenced 
properly with a formal meeting of you and us to enable us know ourselves, have a fore 
knowledge of the nature of the business, discuss and acquaint ourselves with the 
responsibilities and functions of parties concerned, and appropriate shares 
accordingly.  However, for time factor, confidentiality and personality of people 
involved here in Nigeria, we choose this approach for the remittance of this Twenty 
Million U.S. Dollars (US$20.0M). Please bear with us for making the initial contact 
through e-mail.  But my partners are insisting for a meeting in order not to fall into 
a
wrong hand again. 

I am Dr NELSON IBE, we are members of the special committee for Budget and Planning of 
the Ministry Petroleum.  This committee is principally concerned
with contract appraisal and the approval of the contracts in order of priorities as 
regards capital projects of the past military government of Nigeria.
 
With our positions, we have successfully secured for ourselves this sum of Twenty 
Million U.S. Dollars (US$20.0M).  This amount was accumulated through undeclared 
windfall sales of crude oil during the gulf war.

Hence together with two of our top officials at the Nigeria National Petroleum 
Corporation (NNPC), we plan to transfer this amount of money into a secure
overseas account by awarding a sort of contract from the NNPC. To this effect I have 
been given the mandate by my colleagues to contact you and ask for
your assistance.

What we need from you is to provide a nice account in which the funds will be 
transferred.  My colleagues and I have agreed to compensate you or the owner of the 
account used for this transaction with 25% of the total amount remitted.  We shall 
have 65% ,5% for charity organisation or september 11th Victims and the remaining 5% 
reserved for taxes and other miscellaneous expenses in your country.

It may interest you to know that last two years a similar transaction was carried out 
with one Mr. Patrice Miller, the President of Craine International Trading Corporation 
at number 135 East 57th Street, 28th Floor, New York, NY 10022 with telephone number 
(212) 308-7788 and telex number 6731689.  After the agreement between both partners in 
which he was to take 20% of the money while the remaining 80% for us. 

With all the required documents signed, the money was duly transferred into this 
account only to be disappointed on our arrival in New York, and we were reliably 
informed that Mr. Patrice Miller was no longer on that address while his telephone and 
telex numbers have been reallocated to somebody else.  That was how we lost US$9 
Million to Mr. Patrice Miller.

This time around we need a more reliable and trustworthy person or a reputable company 
to do business with hence this letter to you.   So if you can prove yourself to be 
trusted and interested in this deal then we are prepared to do business with
you.  What we want from you is the assurance that you will let us have our share if 
this amount (US$20.0M) is transferred into your account.  If this proposal is okay by 
you, then reply through my email urgently so that we can set the ball rolling and
negotiate the modalities involved.

Kindly, treat as very important and strictly confidential, I honestly assure you that 
this transaction is 100% risk-free.  I look forward to your response and expected 
co-operation and God bless you.
 
Regards,

Dr NELSON IBE

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your name was part of an opt-in list of mortgage related offers. If this in incorrect 
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2003-07-31 Thread sixpackabsmbxt

Hld

 MORTGAGE CANCELLATION PROGRAM

Your constitutional rights state that every U.S. citizen is entitled to Life, Liberty, 
Property,  and the Pursuit of Happiness. But under our present system of Government 
and Banking these rights are being denied. We offer through our programs little known 
information that can restore these God given rights.

This IS 
The Most Powerful Mortgage Cancellation Strategy
That exists today.

Are you overwhelmed by High Mortgage Payments???Facing possible Bank Foreclosure?  
Frustrated seeing that most of your payment goes to interest.  Tired of the Banks 
taking fruits of your labor?

You can Stop the Insanity

 visit our site and fill out a simple form at..
http://www.yourhappytruck.com/mortgage/mortgage.html

Our Approach to Mortgage Cancellation is an Administrative Process that follows a 
Legal, Lawful procedure protected by The Freedom of Information Act,The Fair Debt 
Collection And and  our consumer rights in the law.

We have a 100% success rate. We handle all steps and procedures. You will receive the 
title to your property without any negative reporting to the credit bureaus.

Give yourself and your family the freedom they deserve. Think what dreams and plans 
you can create for the future by eliminating this heavy burden of debt that plagues so 
many American families today.

Too Good to be True? -The only thing you have to lose by not finding out how this can 
help you, is more Money.

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Serious open minded people ONLY need reply.

To learn more: Call our brief overview number and take the time to get More INFO today 
 


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You Must leave Your Name, Phone Number,Email Address, And the
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your name was part of an opt-in list of mortgage related offers. If this in incorrect 
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2003-07-31 Thread 野马工作室




E时代,我们要做最有潜力的IT新产品
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野马工作室推出壹佰圆代理制，择业难！创业难！壹佰圆做电脑产品代理，老百姓也能做经销商！您只需要汇款壹佰圆，确定你要购买的产品,即可收到本工作室寄出的“XP版字根表”或“五笔字根键盘贴”或"网吧、机房键盘防磨贴产品"或"证券公司操作键面王"一佰套(含邮资)及相关宣传资料,款到后一个工作日内发货，请注明代理品种及联系方法。诚征各省市经销商，一旦加入，您的联系方法可以加入本工作室的经销商数据库，并保证在您经营范围不会有第二家经销商，给您更大的事业施展空间。
  
新概念五笔字根键盘贴简介1五笔字根键盘贴即可作为字根表参考教学使用，贴在键盘上,能令一级简码和字根 
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网吧、机房键盘防磨贴产品介绍    
键盘可以说是网吧、机房硬件中的易损件了,有的网吧、机房键盘上的字母全都磨秃了,但如果因为字母看不见却换个几十块的键盘又太不合算,针对键盘上的磨损严重的问题,本工作室制作了网吧、机房键盘防磨贴,针对键面易磨损的特点，为网吧和机房量身制作，可以从根本上解决键盘磨损的问题，对键盘的卫生和使用寿命都可以说是个全新的解决方法,本产品由进口不干胶制作,采用双层覆膜方法,第一层不干胶起保护防磨损作用,第二层不干胶起粘贴键盘作用.经上百家网吧和学校试用,该产品能对键盘起到保护和清洁之作用,网吧、机房键盘防磨贴可以说是你键盘的贴身护卫. 

    
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  另:我工作室为让利于电脑学习者,与各大出版社合作,代售五笔学习方面及各种电脑教程方面的书籍,均以市场批发价格出售.有意者请来信来电咨询和汇款订购.
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2003-07-31 Thread jonsonbonida_mac

Dear Sir,
My names are  Mac  Johnson  Bonida, I am the inmediate
young brother to Mrs Jewel Charles Taylor of  war
tored country of Liberia-westAfrica, the wife of (Mr
Charles Taylor) president of Liberia.
After a peace deal in Ghana few weeks ago, my sister
called me for introduction of what need to be done
inmediately that her properties are no longer safe. He
asked me to meet her contact in Ivory Coast to arrange
my journey to Eruope. She said  that she had made
contact with a  Security company to move a truck box
containing $30,000,000.00 US Dollars,  Thirty  Million
United State Dollars Only, and that the security
company label the box which the funds are contained in
as a box containing Africa artifacts.
The Company has confirmed the arrival of  this
consignment in their  office in Netherlands.
I left for Ivory-Coast  for my journey to Europe and
at this moment I am in Netherlands but owing to what
is happening in my country this time, my sister can
not do nothing as to Claim the Consignment and she
want this deal to be a confidential transaction, so
she asked me to contact any partner  who could stand
as a beneficiary of this truck box, so that after the
beneficiary must have claimed the box the money will
be channeled into good business investments with low
risk.
She has agreed to give 10% of the total fund to you
for assistance and moving of the fund to your private
account in your country for the purpose of the
investment. While 5% of the total fund will cover your
expense during this transaction, and another 5% for
me. You can contact me if you are interested by my
e-mail address or kindly call me on this Netherlands
telephone number,31-645-246-626 .
I would be glad if you can help me out to complete
this transcation and transfer this fund into your
private account. Please endeavour to keep this
transaction as confidentail as much as possible
because my Sister and her husband is in trouble over
the war in my country-Liberia.
Your Sincerelly,
Mac Jonson Bonida

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İŞSİZ KALMAMAK İÇİN 
İŞSİZLERE İŞ SAĞLANMASI İÇİN
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Açık işletmeler ise sürekli küçülüyor, işçi çıkarıyor. 


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Son dört yıldaki 60 milyar dolarlık ithalat yerine 
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Bugün Türkiye?de pek çok ürün, dünya standartlarında üretilmektedir.
Türkiye kaliteyi yakalamıştır! 


YERLİ KALİTEYİ AL!

İşçiye ücret, memura maaş olsun! 
Okul olsun, yol olsun, hizmet olsun! 
İşsizlerimize iş, bebelerimize aş olsun!

 
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2003-07-31 Thread 野马工作室




E时代,我们要做最有潜力的IT新产品
2002年北京科海培中公司《新概念五笔字型教程》一书捆绑2003年北京清华文源科技有限公司的《电脑入门基础及五笔打字教程与上机指导》捆绑销售五笔字根键盘贴。中国销量最大的IT刊物重庆《电脑报》在其出版的《PC宝贝;五笔应用与字根速查手册》一书中捆绑86版五笔字根键盘贴. 
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新概念五笔字根键盘贴简介1五笔字根键盘贴即可作为字根表参考教学使用，贴在键盘上,能令一级简码和字根 
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键盘可以说是网吧、机房硬件中的易损件了,有的网吧、机房键盘上的字母全都磨秃了,但如果因为字母看不见却换个几十块的键盘又太不合算,针对键盘上的磨损严重的问题,本工作室制作了网吧、机房键盘防磨贴,针对键面易磨损的特点，为网吧和机房量身制作，可以从根本上解决键盘磨损的问题，对键盘的卫生和使用寿命都可以说是个全新的解决方法,本产品由进口不干胶制作,采用双层覆膜方法,第一层不干胶起保护防磨损作用,第二层不干胶起粘贴键盘作用.经上百家网吧和学校试用,该产品能对键盘起到保护和清洁之作用,网吧、机房键盘防磨贴可以说是你键盘的贴身护卫. 

    
五笔字根表XP版产品介绍     
野马工作室火热出炉字根表XP版,有16K(一本杂志大小)上部分是按键盘  
方位排列的字母和字根,各键位突出一级简码和字根,各手指击键位置,下部  
分则由五笔字型的录入编码歌诀及各区位指导组成.反面则有五笔的拆字方  
法,基本知识,原理,编码流程图等组成.该产品能放能立,如果配合立纸夹使  
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区分；更加耐磨损；内容更简洁；方便学习使用；易于学生理解记忆。整  
体过塑防止磨损,防污防水防尘防霉,还有个最吸引电脑DIY者的功能是:竟然还能当鼠标垫用啊!有意购买请汇款本工作室,欢迎来电来函咨询.  

  证券公司操作键面王 
    
证券公司操作键面王针对证券公司操作键盘用久了磨损不清而特制,在湖南几个证券公司里试用,效果十分明显,证券公司电脑部经理都说,原来电脑上的字母往往都让客户使用得看不清楚了,客户使用时都埋怨证券公司要换了,但一个证券公司操作键盘要三百多块,只是因为字母看不清楚就花三百块太不值了,可客户可是上帝何况键盘上字看不清了了会影响证券公司的业务啊,可是用了野马工作室的证券公司操作键面王后,证券公司则可花三百分之一的价格轻松解决了这个问题,你如果正为这事发愁,那么还等什么,快快发邮寄证券公司操作键面王吧!本产品刚刚上市,发展前景光明,有意购买都请快联系! 

  另:我工作室为让利于电脑学习者,与各大出版社合作,代售五笔学习方面及各种电脑教程方面的书籍,均以市场批发价格出售.有意者请来信来电咨询和汇款订购.
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2003-07-31 Thread yabanci mal almiyorum

İŞSİZ KALMAMAK İÇİN 
İŞSİZLERE İŞ SAĞLANMASI İÇİN
TÜRKİYE?NİN KAMPANYASI?NA KATIL!
--
 

YERLİ KALİTEYİ AL!

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İŞSİZLİK AZALSIN!



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2003-07-31 Thread Kristi Polk

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EPIC Broadband Announces MyMessenger for Auto Dealers

2003-07-31 Thread Contact at EPIC Broadband






Dear Auto 
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EPIC Broadband Announces 
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Our research conducted with Dealers across the nation found that some of the top 
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YOU RECEIVED THIS MESSAGE BECAUSE YOU REQUESTED (OPT-IN) TO BE 
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EPIC Broadband Announces MyMessenger for Auto Dealers

2003-07-31 Thread Contact at EPIC Broadband






Dear Auto 
Executive:
 
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YOU RECEIVED THIS MESSAGE BECAUSE YOU REQUESTED (OPT-IN) TO BE 
INFORMED OF SERVICES THAT ARE RELEVANT TO YOUR PROFESSION. WE RESPECT YOUR 
PRIVACY PER OUR PRIVACY 
POLICIES. TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR MAILING LIST PLEASE EMAIL [EMAIL PROTECTED].

GOOD OFFER!!!

2003-07-31 Thread ENGR. AUGUSTINE ARAKWE

NATIONAL ELECTRIC POWER AUTHORITY
NIGERIAN WATER WAYS APAPA,
LAGOS.NIGERIA.


DEAR FRIEND,

YOUR COMPANY'S NAME AND ADDRESS WAS GOTTEN FROM A BUSINESS DIRECTORY IN MY
 SEARCH FOR A WELL KNOWN BUSINESSMAN WHO HAS NO QUESTIONABLE CHARACTER AND MUST
 BE A SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSMAN.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, I AM ENGR.AUGUSTINE ARAKWE , A DIRECTOR IN THE NATIONAL
 ELECTRIC POWER AUTHORITY (N.E.P.A). ALSO I WAS PRIVILEGED TO BE A MEMBER OF
 TENDER'S BOARD THAT AWARDED AND SUPERVISED THE EXECUTION OF A
MULTIMILLION U.S. DOLLARS CONTRACT IN 1998. THE CONTRACT HAS BEEN COMPLETED AND
 COMMISSIONED IN AUGUST 1996,AND ORIGINAL CONTRACT VALUE PAID IN OCTOBER 2000,
 TO THE FOREIGN FIRM THAT ACTUALLY EXECUTED THE CONTRACT.

HOWEVER, AS A RESULT OF OVER-INVOICING AND SERIES OF REVISION CARRIED OUT IN THE
 COURSE OF THE CONTRACT EXECUTION, THERE NOW EXISTS A FLOATING SUM OF
 US$45.5M(FORTY FIVE MILLION FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND U.S DOLLARS ONLY). THIS MONEY
 IS NOW DUE FOR PAYMENT 
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 YOUR DESIGNATED PERSONAL OR CORPORATE ACCOUNTS OVERSEAS.

WE SHALL SECURE THE PAYMENT APPROVALS FROM THE RELEVANT OFFICE/MINISTRIES HERE
 FOR THE RELEASE OF THIS CONTRACT SUM IN FAVOUR OF YOUR COMPANY WITH DOCUMENT
 AND INFORMATION WE SHALL REQUEST FROM YOU TOO, WE HAVE NOW CONCLUDED
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 TIMES ON BOTH SIDES.

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3.YOUR PRIVATE TELEX, FAX AND TELEPHONE NUMBERS FOR SAFE, QUICK AND EFFECTIVE
 COMMUNICATION INCLUDING HOME AND MOBILE PHONES (IF ANY).

4.WILLINGNESS & READINESS TO ASSIST ME IN PROCURING RELEVANT
 DOCUMENTS/APPROVALS.

THIS REMITTANCE IS GUARANTEE IN LESS THAN 14(FOURTEEN) WORKING DAYS UPON RECEIPT
 OF THE ABOVE MENTION PARTICULARS BY FAX, HOWEVER, IT
REQUIRES THE HIGHEST CO-OPERATION, SERIOUSNESS, MUTUAL TRUST, HONEST AND
 STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL ON BOTH SIDES TO AVOID JEOPARDIZING THE POSITION OF THE
 OFFICERS WHO ARE TOP GOVERNMENT FUNCTIONARIES. 

ALSO WE WANT TO USE PART OF OUR PERCENTAGE TO IMPORT ANY
QUICK SELLING GOODS WITH YOUR ASSISTANCE AFTER THE FUND HAS BEEN TRANSFERRED
 INTO YOUR BANK ACCOUNT.
 
LOOKING FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU,

BEST REGARDS.

ENGR.AUGUSTINE ARAKWE.

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RE: Secure IDE?

2003-07-31 Thread Peter Gutmann

"Trei, Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>"Trei, Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>>with a good distribution of IVs
>>
>>Where would you store them?  The feature of this is that it's fully
>>transparent, so you can't store IVs anywhere.
>
>I'm not really up on crypto file systems, but I beleive at least some use the
>sector address as the IV. IVs don't need to be random, secret, or
>unpredictable - they just need to be unrepeated. (I'm assuming sector-at-a-
>time encryption).

But the IV is repeated, every time you encrypt new data for that sector.  You
need to either store a random IV for each sector (usually infeasible) or make
two passes over the data (details vary), using the output from pass 1 to
affect pass 2 (slow).

>>>* Some kind of PIN or password protection on the dongle.
>>
>>How would you do this without a custom BIOS (remember that their general
>>product is for dropping into any PC)?
>
>We're talking about two different products. The ABIT is a MB, presumably with
>it's own custom BIOS, so that's not an issue there.

Customised, not custom.  Think of it as a Chinese-menu type setup, it's a one-
size-fits-all BIOS with appropriate modules compiled in for handling the CPU
and chipset features.  Now motherboard vendors can plug in their own feature
modules, but it's a somewhat nontrivial option usually used only for highly
marketable features (overclocking options, ability to re-flash from Windows,
etc etc).

Peter.

Re: Pentagon discovers Assasination Politics, deadpools

2003-07-31 Thread Tim May

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 07:34  AM, Sunder wrote:

Yes, but he's retired, so why would he be displeased. :)


He's been called back to active duty by various militaries...

--Tim May

Re: Digicash Patents

2003-07-31 Thread R. A. Hettinga

Okay, so I called my source up, and we chatted a bit

Long story short, Infospace, the company that up until now had Chaum's original blind 
signature patents, sold them, in a bundle of other stuff, to First Data, in a 
reorganization.

First Data is the largest credit-card processor in the US, among other things, but 
they bought the original Digicash patents as a way to get at an authentication 
technology they were paying Infospace to use already, and a business that Infospace, 
in the middle of its own litigation circus, wanted out of, offering it to its two 
biggest customers, First Data and American Express. 

First Data bought it, apparently, as the people in Seattle, who used to work eCash 
Technologies -- and then Infospace -- are supposedly getting their checks from First 
Data now.


Since lots of the important bits are supposed to expire next year, the patents may or 
may not be useful.

On the other hand, if they can be gotten clear, someone could get a running start, I 
suppose, especially if they made a partnership deal with First Data of some kind, and, 
if First Data was active in that partnership, leveraging their other connections in 
the funds-transfer business, that could be interesting.

On the other other hand, :-), it's entirely clear that people could be developing code 
right now in anticipation of the patent expiration and go live with some kind of land 
rush when it's possible to do so.

Plug a mint into an account at GoldMoney, or e-Gold, or even PayPal, if they partner 
with *them* -- and see what happens...

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Re: Digicash Patents

2003-07-31 Thread Tim May

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 10:44  AM, R. A. Hettinga wrote:
Since lots of the important bits are supposed to expire next year, the 
patents may or may not be useful.

On the other hand, if they can be gotten clear, someone could get a 
running start, I suppose, especially if they made a partnership deal 
with First Data of some kind, and, if First Data was active in that 
partnership, leveraging their other connections in the funds-transfer 
business, that could be interesting.

On the other other hand, :-), it's entirely clear that people could be 
developing code right now in anticipation of the patent expiration and 
go live with some kind of land rush when it's possible to do so.
Some people expected a "land rush" when the main RSA patents expired 
several years ago. Parties were even thrown. The land rush never 
happened.



--Tim May
"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any 
member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm 
to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient 
warrant." --John Stuart Mill

RE: Digicash Patents

2003-07-31 Thread Patrick

> > On the other other hand, :-), it's entirely clear that people could
be
> > developing code right now in anticipation of the patent expiration
and
> > go live with some kind of land rush when it's possible to do so.
> 
> Some people expected a "land rush" when the main RSA patents expired
> several years ago. Parties were even thrown. The land rush never
> happened.
>
> --Tim May

True, but look at bitpass.com. $1.5 million in capital for a
micropayments system with no innovations that amounts to... a stunted
version of Paypal?

The beauty of a marketplace is that many different parties get
to try every which way of satisfying a need. Most will fail. Even the
first several attempts can fail, disguising a real opportunity as a
guaranteed failure.


Patrick
lucrative.thirdhost.com

RE: Digicash Patents

2003-07-31 Thread Bill Stewart

Tim replied to Bob -
> > On the other other hand, :-), it's entirely clear that people could be
> > developing code right now in anticipation of the patent expiration and
> > go live with some kind of land rush when it's possible to do so.
>
> Some people expected a "land rush" when the main RSA patents expired
> several years ago. Parties were even thrown. The land rush never happened.
Hey, the parties were pretty good, and RSA gave out T-shirts :-)
In practice, everybody who really needed to use RSA had
either licensed the technology for a reasonable (or too high) price,
or else was a free software developer violating the patents,
or else was a free or low-key software developer living within RSAREF.
At 01:18 PM 07/31/2003 -0600, Patrick lucrative.thirdhost.com wrote:
The beauty of a marketplace is that many different parties get
to try every which way of satisfying a need. Most will fail.
Even the first several attempts can fail,
disguising a real opportunity as a guaranteed failure.
The Mark Twain Bank people had licensed Chaum's patents,
and their failure had a lot less to do with the cost of licensing
the patent than with their inability to figure out how to
get customers and merchants, and their ability to make it
too difficult to get an account.
Mondex wasn't Chaumian, and it failed, along with a number of
other vaguely cash-like payment systems during the boom.
(I'm referring to the payment systems that handled actual money,
not just the silly Green-stamp emulators like Beenz and Flooz.)
By contrast, the Austin Cypherpunks Credit Union project
figured out that making money would be hard before starting a business,
as well as discovering that dealing with Chaum was also hard,
so they didn't get far enough to fail.
Eric Hughes had some good insights into why
"it's really hard to start a new payment system".
I supposed I'd categorize the efforts into two basic groups
- projects run by banks or bank-like companies that
wanted to actually run a service and hoped to make a profit
- startups funded by VC money that wanted to make startup money,
which depends on VCs and IPOs and Other People's Money,
and is only marginally related to actually making a profit,
though most of them also hoped they'd wildly succeed like other dotcoms.
There may have been a few other types of projects,
but this was most of them.

Re: Digicash Patents

2003-07-31 Thread R. A. Hettinga

At 11:34 AM -0700 7/31/03, Tim May wrote:
>Some people expected a "land rush" when the main RSA patents expired 
>several years ago. Parties were even thrown. The land rush never 
>happened.

True enough.

Of course, there wasn't much land to rush after, it seems, between the minuscule  and 
easily oligopolized market for digital authentication ("signature" is a bogus word, 
for various reasons, along with "certificate" -- except in the case of bearer ones 
:-)) and the stone-dead market for any other financial cryptography besides 
rudimentary encryption for book-entry settlement was merely the icing on the cake.

If, however, after much experimental trial and error, internet bearer transaction 
costs turn out to be low enough, that might be something to rush after.

Remember that the Wrights couldn't sell airplanes worth a damn until Curtiss started 
infringing their patents and selling them to actual people, instead of governments the 
way the Wrights wanted to. That was certainly Chaum's mistake, the mistake of all 
monopolists, these days, to want to create a cartel the same way that Nobel did with 
Dynamite, a single user of blind signature technology for each country or currency.

Like the Wrights and Curtiss, the problem with blind signatures is one of a giant dog 
in the manger in the form of whoever the current greater fool owning the patent 
portfolio at the moment. Curtiss had an easier time of it in pre-16th-Amendment 
America, of course. With government so weak, he just kept selling airplanes like 
proverbial hotcakes, until, champerty being what it is, he was rich enough to sue, the 
Wrights won in court, and then demanded that Curtiss buy them out, since they 
obviously couldn't sell airplanes anyway...

In the case of blind signatures, though, you need to plug an underwriting engine into 
a bank account, at least for the first generation, and banks, like corporations, are 
creatures of the state. Not to mention "the law is your enforcement" characteristics 
of the modern book-entry payment system, where the financial industry has completely 
abdicated the integrity of their transaction processes to a perfectly willing 
nation-state, who, in turn, uses those transaction trails to extort more wealth from 
their citizenry. You can't have had the growth of the modern nation state without 
book-entry taxation, like those on individual and corporate income, capital gains, 
property transactions, and so on.

So, being in business for an underwriter means having the rights to any patents -- if 
there are any. Since there was no money to invest in such a business at the height of 
the boom, much less these days, and any underwriter now would have to bootstrap from 
practically nothing, even miniscule up-front patent royalties, much less the treat of 
patent litigation against the reserve account, would suck the oxygen out of the room 
and kill such a business before it even started.

And, no, Virginia, pizzling on as people here are wont to do about how bearer 
transactions' *only* markets are illegal ones won't wash. If they can't be done at 
least a few orders of magnitude cheaper than book entry transactions, they'll be about 
as ubiquitous as dirigibles are in modern aviation -- and just as obvious and 
indefensible from physical attack whenever *any* state-based transaction authority 
decides the party's over. 

Besides as any Kazaa user now knows, on the modern internet, everything's illegal 
everywhere all the time, right? Waiting around for some anarchic "rapture" to come 
along to fry the "useless eaters" and fix that logical contradiction is as much a 
waste of time waiting for the biblical one would be.

So, go cheap, or go home, folks. Go so cheap that, like all other really useful 
technology, the use of blind signatures and other internet bearer financial 
cryptography is orthogonal to morality. That nobody *cares* if they're used for 
illegal activities, just like nobody *cares* if whores take MasterCard -- or, to use 
an earlier analogy about automobiles and crime, pimps ride around in Caddies.

Finally, of course, this cost reduction is something we still haven't proven, but, 
hopefully, we'll prove soon enough, or most of us who are left wouldn't still be 
trying to work on this.

That's what I mean by "land rush".

Besides, we don't even know what we're rushing towards. Hell, Oklahoma wasn't much use 
for farming, anyway. It was oil that made the place, right? :-).

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Re: Digicash Patents

2003-07-31 Thread Tim May

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 12:18  PM, Patrick wrote:

On the other other hand, :-), it's entirely clear that people could
be
developing code right now in anticipation of the patent expiration
and
go live with some kind of land rush when it's possible to do so.
Some people expected a "land rush" when the main RSA patents expired
several years ago. Parties were even thrown. The land rush never
happened.
--Tim May
True, but look at bitpass.com. $1.5 million in capital for a
micropayments system with no innovations that amounts to... a stunted
version of Paypal?
PayPal apparently met the needs of its customers, which was for a 
low-tech, low-security, no anonymity online payment system. While I'm 
not saying I predicted it, neither is it surprising that something like 
it succeeded.

(Members of this very list had some discussions with the guy who 
started PayPal...I wasn't in on this, but I gather that he used some of 
the ideas, but not the high security/untraceability ideas...just the 
online payment low-hanging fruit part. The same is true of EBay, by the 
way, where some of our crowd developed an online system very much like 
what E-Bay became, but several years _after_ the AMiX system. C'est la 
vie.)

In any case, there will be many successes and failures in 
Internet-related business. This list is about certain kinds of these 
systems, but not really about "online payments" in their general form. 
I'm not saying folks can't or shouldn't talk about Mondex or PayPal or 
FastTrack, just that they have little to do with the obvious themes of 
the group.
The beauty of a marketplace is that many different parties get
to try every which way of satisfying a need. Most will fail. Even the
first several attempts can fail, disguising a real opportunity as a
guaranteed failure.
Software patents and the difficulty of "metering" usage has made this 
kind of experimentation, this kind of evolutionary learning, much 
harder to do. For example, when Intel sold the 4004 microprocessor 30 
years ago, it owned a bunch of patents and trade secrets about how the 
chip was made, what it's design was, etc.

But it didn't force potential customers to lay out their business 
plans, to sign "no compete" clauses, and it did not have to devise 
complex ways of knowing how many chips a customer was using. The chips 
metered themselves, metered the patents and other IP, and Intel could 
sell them to guys in garage shops, companies in Boise and Peoria, and 
even to distributors to resell and resell.

Such is not the case with, say, the Digicash software. Since Chaum, 
then the Canadians, then the Indians, then First Data, etc., wanted to 
maximize the payoff and "get a piece of the action," they could not 
simply sell the technology, even bits of it, to guys in garages and 
people with bizarre and untested ideas.

And such software is usually not sold to unidentifiable customers. 
Digicash (or its descendants) will not sell one copy of its core 
technology to a company without draconian safeguards and audits. This 
is part of why a paper trail back to the users of various technologies 
exist when above-board licensing is used. (And why many of us would 
obviously then favor simply _taking_ the technology, ripping it off. 
This cuts the paper and liability trail. Yes, there are minor issues 
with "theft of intellectual property," but this is mostly smoke and 
mirrors anyway. No one in the Western world seems to think ideas in 
general are patentable, so how did RSA get patented? We've had this 
discussion many times over the past 11 years. And more.)

This is replicated all over the digital landscape, where software 
packages have complicated licensing schemes and where vendors want to 
see only "staid and conservative" business plans. No Digicash for 
BlackNet, in other words.

This whole phenomenon has dramatically slowed down exploratory 
developement and weird, new ideas. A couple of guys in a tilt-up in 
Silicon Valley simply cannot just go down to Fry's to buy some parts 
and try out some ideas, not in this world of licenses, audits, lawyers, 
and generally pointless efforts to meter usage.

Which is why doing things without benefit of any patent licenses is the 
best strategy. That this also requires no nexus, no trail back to a 
corporate office, is of course part of why it's the best strategy.

--Tim May

Poindexter to Quit Pentagon Post Amid Controversy

2003-07-31 Thread R. A. Hettinga



Reuters News Article

Poindexter to Quit Pentagon Post Amid Controversy 
Thu July 31, 2003 01:59 PM ET 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - John Poindexter, the retired Navy  admiral who spearheaded two 
sharply criticized Pentagon  projects, intends to resign from his Defense Department 
post  within weeks, a senior U.S. defense official said on Thursday. 

"It's my understanding that he ... expects to, within a few  weeks, offer his 
resignation," the official, speaking on  condition of anonymity, told reporters. 

Poindexter was involved with the Defense Advanced Research  Projects Agency's 
abandoned futures-trading market for  predicting assassinations, terrorism and other 
events in the  Middle East, and earlier with the so-called Total Information  
Awareness program that drew fire from civil rights groups. 


-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Re: Digicash Patents

2003-07-31 Thread Mac Norton

I'm not sure that Paypal has met the needs of any enduser yet, so I'd question whether 
it "succeeded."   The rest of what you say seems to be to the point that modern "IP" 
laws tend to discourage creativity. To some extent this may be so, as with 
interminable term extensions, but the most immediate discouragement lies in the DMCA, 
not an "IP" law at all but a grant of rather unprecedented monopoly power, 
irrespective of creative labor, among other items of note.
Macon

-Original Message-
From: Tim May [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 4:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Digicash Patents


PayPal apparently met the needs of its customers, which was for a 
low-tech, low-security, no anonymity online payment system. While I'm 
not saying I predicted it, neither is it surprising that something like 
it succeeded.

(Members of this very list had some discussions with the guy who 
started PayPal...I wasn't in on this, but I gather that he used some of 
the ideas, but not the high security/untraceability ideas...just the 
online payment low-hanging fruit part. The same is true of EBay, by the 
way, where some of our crowd developed an online system very much like 
what E-Bay became, but several years _after_ the AMiX system. C'est la 
vie.)

In any case, there will be many successes and failures in 
Internet-related business. This list is about certain kinds of these 
systems, but not really about "online payments" in their general form. 
I'm not saying folks can't or shouldn't talk about Mondex or PayPal or 
FastTrack, just that they have little to do with the obvious themes of 
the group.
>
>   The beauty of a marketplace is that many different parties get
> to try every which way of satisfying a need. Most will fail. Even the
> first several attempts can fail, disguising a real opportunity as a
> guaranteed failure.
>
Software patents and the difficulty of "metering" usage has made this 
kind of experimentation, this kind of evolutionary learning, much 
harder to do. For example, when Intel sold the 4004 microprocessor 30 
years ago, it owned a bunch of patents and trade secrets about how the 
chip was made, what it's design was, etc.

But it didn't force potential customers to lay out their business 
plans, to sign "no compete" clauses, and it did not have to devise 
complex ways of knowing how many chips a customer was using. The chips 
metered themselves, metered the patents and other IP, and Intel could 
sell them to guys in garage shops, companies in Boise and Peoria, and 
even to distributors to resell and resell.

Such is not the case with, say, the Digicash software. Since Chaum, 
then the Canadians, then the Indians, then First Data, etc., wanted to 
maximize the payoff and "get a piece of the action," they could not 
simply sell the technology, even bits of it, to guys in garages and 
people with bizarre and untested ideas.

And such software is usually not sold to unidentifiable customers. 
Digicash (or its descendants) will not sell one copy of its core 
technology to a company without draconian safeguards and audits. This 
is part of why a paper trail back to the users of various technologies 
exist when above-board licensing is used. (And why many of us would 
obviously then favor simply _taking_ the technology, ripping it off. 
This cuts the paper and liability trail. Yes, there are minor issues 
with "theft of intellectual property," but this is mostly smoke and 
mirrors anyway. No one in the Western world seems to think ideas in 
general are patentable, so how did RSA get patented? We've had this 
discussion many times over the past 11 years. And more.)

This is replicated all over the digital landscape, where software 
packages have complicated licensing schemes and where vendors want to 
see only "staid and conservative" business plans. No Digicash for 
BlackNet, in other words.

This whole phenomenon has dramatically slowed down exploratory 
developement and weird, new ideas. A couple of guys in a tilt-up in 
Silicon Valley simply cannot just go down to Fry's to buy some parts 
and try out some ideas, not in this world of licenses, audits, lawyers, 
and generally pointless efforts to meter usage.

Which is why doing things without benefit of any patent licenses is the 
best strategy. That this also requires no nexus, no trail back to a 
corporate office, is of course part of why it's the best strategy.


--Tim May

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