RE: Manhattan Mid-Afternoon
-- On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Normen Nomesco wrote: > Oh and Im sure having guns on board planes would work out great > especially considering the increase of people having huge fucking fits > and having to be held down on planes, yeah, lets arm people on planes. > Have you ever fucking even been on a plan? I wouldn't trust most of my fellow > monkeys with a sharp edge on the free peanuts. -- Hi Normesco; If you had ever lived in an armed society, you would understand why this isn't the case. I've lived where pretty much everyone was armed pretty much all of the time. I can promise you that this bad, childish behavior simply doesn't occur. Even when folks get very cranked up at one another, the arguments, while heated tend to stay somewhat civil. These reasons you cite for not allowing folks to be armed go away very quickly when the sheepish victim mentality that is inherit in the powerless is removed. When folks are held accountable for their behavior, they behave better.
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Re: The 4th Airliner Shot Down?
John Young wrote: > > Somebody who claims to be from inside the Pentagon > is saying an F16 shot down the airliner that crashed in > Pennsylvania. Are there news reports of this? Thee is also a net.rumour (with Jerry Pournelle's name attached to it) that someone on the plane attacked the hijackers whilst someone else was phoning home & describing it. Or it could be that the pilot deliberately went for a relatively uninhabited area. No doubt there will be other rumours. Ken
Report: Five Suspects Identified in NYC Attack
http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010912/ts/attack_suspects_dc_1.html -- -- natsugusa ya...tsuwamonodomo ga...yume no ato summer grass...those mighty warriors'...dream-tracks Matsuo Basho The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::>/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
SIG: Linux Today - Ideas: The SSSCA and its potential effects
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Re: The 4th Airliner Shot Down?
On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 10:49:49PM -0700, John Young wrote: > Somebody who claims to be from inside the Pentagon > is saying an F16 shot down the airliner that crashed in > Pennsylvania. Are there news reports of this? > > Also that a number of generals were killed in the > Pentagon. Any news of this? There are a *lot* of generals in the Pentagon. Any attack that takes out hundreds of linear feet of the building is likely to kill some. As for the F16, could be disinformation. The Pittsburgh newspapers quote lots of eyewitnesses, but no mention of a missile: http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010912somerscenenat4p3.asp Also, if you were a pilot held hostage and wanted to crash the plane somewhere, farmland that's a former coal mine would be a good bet. -Declan
RE: Manhattan Mid-Afternoon
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Sunder wrote: > I'd still fucking rush them if I had been there. If anything it would > wake everyone else up to do the same. I'd like to think I would have, but honestly I don't know. Also, if the first rusher is killed, that acts as a negative example for the others. The scene from "Sunshine" where Fiennes is berated for standing aside and watching his father die keeps coming back. Keep in mind that the hostages likely did not know the terrorists were planning to down the plane. For all they knew, they were going to be exchanged for prisoners in Israeli jails. By the time it became clear what was going to happen (if it ever did), it might have been too late. Then it's not "my life vs 20,000" but "my life vs squat if they kill me and retain control." -David
Re: CDR: Re: NSA monitors domestic cellular
>On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Derek Balling wrote: > >> Doesn't domestic surveillance of civilian cel-phone calls, without a >> warrant, fall into a really "Gray"[1] area? I thought NSA wasn't >> permitted to do that... > >If it goes out of the country it isn't domestic. But the news was reporting about looking for "people who were on the planes calling friends and family" (e.g., other people like that Olson woman on Flt. 93), ... if they're recording THOSE calls then there's a serious question raised of "why". D -- +-+-+ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them| | |driven before you, and to hear the | | |lamentation of their women!" | +-+-+
Re: The 4th Airliner Shot Down?
To my knowledge, no. FBI confiscated the 911 tapes yesterday for analysis and investigation, and wouldn't even confirm that the 911 call had taken place... CNN mentioned that yesterday. D At 11:31 AM -0400 9/12/01, Matthew Gaylor wrote: >[Note from Matthew Gaylor: Are any sound files of this 911 call available?] > >http://chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0109120251sep12.story > >From the Chicago Tribune > >911 call preceded fiery Pennsylvania crash > -- +-+-+ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | "Conan! What is best in life?" | | Derek J. Balling | "To crush your enemies, see them| | |driven before you, and to hear the | | |lamentation of their women!" | +-+-+
RE: Cypherpunks and terrorism
Suffused with boredom, Lucky Green wrote, > Nomen wrote: > --- > What are the roles of we who provide technology that aids terrorists > as well as honorable people who seek the shield of privacy? Do we bear > a share of the responsibility for the deaths and other consequences of > terrorist attacks such as we have seen today? > --- > > No. The chicken are merely coming home to roost. No surprise there. Sure, but whose chicken? Maybe our own policies and beliefs have turned against us, to our detriment. There have been a number of reports that bin Laden uses cryptography and even steganography tools. This could still have a significant crypto connection. But if not this time, then next time. Sooner or later a catastrophe will happen due to our technology. Most people's worries seem narrow. "Will I get in trouble? Will the software be banned?" What about, "Should I be a contributor to the murder of thousands? Should I be promoting technology which could lead to a backlash against freedom?" Some terrorists have exactly this as their goal. They are hoping to trigger a counter-reaction, an over-reaction, by the authorities. They want to see a crackdown on liberties, a police state. This will weaken the enemy and demoralize him. It will increase hostility and make the population less willing to support the government. Perhaps some readers share this view. Tim May, spiritual leader of the cypherpunks, has expressed support for the actions of Timothy McVeigh in murdering schoolchildren in Oklahoma City. He has frequently called for the killing of every resident of Washington, D.C. Will he now speak out in favor of the death of tens of thousands in New York City? Perhaps, for him, this is the true cypherpunk goal: promote murder and catastrophe in order to trigger a spasm of Western totalitarianism, hoping that the state will then self-destruct. If so, then laws like the DMCA and SSSCA should be welcomed with open arms. Likewise with prosecutions for pornography and, even better, bans on software technologies. These measures work hand in hand with the responses to terrorism in strengthening the control of the state over the individual. Those few remaining cypherpunks who cling to the original goal of freedom, privacy and liberty, should face the moral issues squarely. A case can be made that the technologies we favor are a positive force in the world, even though they can be used for destructive means. But there are arguments on both sides, especially in a world where a few people can use the shield of anonymity to coordinate actions that lead to massive deaths. The point is, cypherpunks must face and accept the responsibility for the harm their technologies can cause, as they should also feel pride in the positive effects. And they must be able to show, at least to themselves, that the positives outweigh the negatives. At least, unless they are taking Tim May's view of the world, where no deaths are too many and the blood of innocents ushers in a welcome new age of tyranny.
Re: Cypherpunks and terrorism
On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 06:00:46PM +0200, Nomen Nescio wrote: > Some terrorists have exactly this as their goal. They are hoping > to trigger a counter-reaction, an over-reaction, by the authorities. > They want to see a crackdown on liberties, a police state. This will > weaken the enemy and demoralize him. It will increase hostility and > make the population less willing to support the government. This is nonsense. I suspect the bin Laden want the U.S. to stop handing Israel billions of dollars a year in aid and weapons. Not bombing pharmecutical plants and lifting an embargo that kills hundreds of thousands (allegedly) of Iraqi women and children might be a nice move too. -Declan
Re: Coordination, maximizing terror, hypotheses (fwd)
At 06:03 PM 9/12/01 +0200, Eugene Leitl forwarded: >-- Forwarded message -- >Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:49:13 -0500 >From: Jeff Bone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: Robert S. Thau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Coordination, maximizing terror, hypotheses > >* The targeting of the second attack may be a subtle pointer to state >involvement. I understand that the part of the Pentagon that was hit houses >the nerve center for the Army's worldwide logistics command. It appears that It was one of the worst places to hit; the offices were under construction and not everyone had moved in yet. >this part of the building was intentionally targeted, as the plane apparently >performed an overshoot-and-return maneuver in order to line up with the south >side of the building, whereas it could've gone into the opposite side with no >such maneuver. A small, highly-mobile group of perps wouldn't be concerned This is nonsense, and shows how seriously we should take the rest of the message. I was at the Pentagon yesterday; the plane did not hit the south side. (Photos at mccullagh.org). >* Our own forces may have shot down the plane over Pennsylvania. Dick Armey >was giving an interview last night, and after being asked leading questions by >Wolf Blitzer he started making comments about being given a classified >briefing with information specifically about that plane. The interview was >then censored, with sound edited out for about 30 seconds. I pulled a transcript from Lexis-Nexis. Here's what Armey said in response to the Pennsylvania question, (AUDIO GAP) in the original: ARMEY: Well we learned some things about that. At this point the information is classified. It is clear that we to have had a good investigation going forward. We are gathering information, there is a (AUDIO GAP) confidentiality on what we know, but we do know that this is a serious premeditated crime, and I can say without any doubt or hesitation it's an international crime. Did he 'fess up? I doubt it. Armey is a savvy political operator and gets classified briefings probably once a week or so. It's unlikely he'd cough up confidential material now (he hasn't before) -- it was ~12 hours after the attack happened, so he had time to reflect and digest it. > I think this could >well be an "open secret" that the media has been let in on but gagged about in Nope. -Declan (a MOTM)
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Re: Manhattan Mid-Afternoon
"Raymond D. Mereniuk" wrote: > I don't see where only a terrorist group backed by the resources of > a national government could pull this off. A week or two for planning > and a group of people who can keep their mouth's shut plus the > most important quality, big gonads and a desire to die for a > perceived purpose. So right -- all these people talking about "it had to be a big, well funded, well organized group with lots of resources" are talking total nonsense. It could have been a tiny cadre of eight or twelve people with no more money than to buy some plane tickets. Flying a plane doesn't take a heck of lot either, once it's in the air. It's not even that hard taking off -- landing is the bitch. > > > My guess would be that the final analysis will show these terrorists > were more lucky then skilful. They were lucky to get past airport > security, or airport security was that bad What would be so hard about getting past security if they used plastic knives -- those zytel daggers sold all over the place would be pretty damn effective. I would imagine that they wouldn't have just threatened with them anyway, they would have just used them and killed the crew quickly. A plastic knife would be all they needed, and no metal detector would spot that. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html
Coordination, maximizing terror, hypotheses (fwd)
-- Eugen* Leitl http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204/";>leitl __ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 -- Forwarded message -- Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:49:13 -0500 From: Jeff Bone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Robert S. Thau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Coordination, maximizing terror, hypotheses * The timing of the WTC attacks is extraordinary, and points not only to a high degree of coordination but also to a keen sensibility in planning the mission. Consider: if both planes had hit the buildings simultaneously, there would've been very little footage of the second attack. Too little time between the attacks and there would've been less coverage and no real-time horror; too much time and the alert status might've been such that the second collision could be prevented. * The targeting of the second attack may be a subtle pointer to state involvement. I understand that the part of the Pentagon that was hit houses the nerve center for the Army's worldwide logistics command. It appears that this part of the building was intentionally targeted, as the plane apparently performed an overshoot-and-return maneuver in order to line up with the south side of the building, whereas it could've gone into the opposite side with no such maneuver. A small, highly-mobile group of perps wouldn't be concerned about damaging the Army's logistical capability, as any retaliation would like be air-based or, if ground-based, a smaller strike squad with separate / minimal logistical concerns. Crippling Army logistics might have been a strategic consideration designed to minimize the ability to mount an immediate, large-scale, ground-based response with traditional forces. Further speculation: this may point away from Afghanistan / Taliban involvement and more towards Iraq or Iran, for the reasons noted earlier re: the difficulty of mounting a ground-based invasion of Afghanistan. * Our own forces may have shot down the plane over Pennsylvania. Dick Armey was giving an interview last night, and after being asked leading questions by Wolf Blitzer he started making comments about being given a classified briefing with information specifically about that plane. The interview was then censored, with sound edited out for about 30 seconds. I think this could well be an "open secret" that the media has been let in on but gagged about in order to minimize public backlash / confusion. Other indications also exist, in the news that's coming out about where and when fighters were scrambled. This is clearly speculative, but a possibiliity. http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
Re: Manhattan Mid-Afternoon
Harmon Seaver wrote: > > "Raymond D. Mereniuk" wrote: > > > I don't see where only a terrorist group backed by the resources of > > a national government could pull this off. A week or two for planning > > and a group of people who can keep their mouth's shut plus the > > most important quality, big gonads and a desire to die for a > > perceived purpose. > > So right -- all these people talking about "it had to be a big, well > funded, well organized group with lots of resources" are talking total nonsense. > It could have been a tiny cadre of eight or twelve people with no more money > than to buy some plane tickets. Flying a plane doesn't take a heck of lot > either, once it's in the air. A friend of mine wonders if they had a Boeing flight simulator. Apparently they would need to know how to disable the autopilot and do a couple of other technobabble things a groundling like me doesn't recognise. But with access to a training simulator they could learn enough in a few days. Or so I am told. I suppose such machines are all over the place these days, Boeing having more or less a monopoly on medium-large commercial passenger planes. So there could be training facilities just about anywhere. I have no real idea how rare and/or expensive they would be. Ken
Re: The 4th Airliner Shot Down?
[Note from Matthew Gaylor: Are any sound files of this 911 call available?] http://chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0109120251sep12.story From the Chicago Tribune 911 call preceded fiery Pennsylvania crash Frantic passenger relates hijacking via cell phone By Julia Keller and Jon Yates, Tribune staff reporters. Tribune news services contributed to this report September 12, 2001 LAMBERTSVILLE, Pa. -- The call came at 9:58 a.m., a frantic message from a passenger aboard United Airlines Flight 93, on a wayward path over western Pennsylvania. [...] Dan Stevens, spokesman for the Westmoreland County Department of Public Safety, said a dispatcher received a 911 call from a man aboard the flight just before 10 a.m. EDT. The man, calling from a cell phone, told the dispatcher the plane had been hijacked. "He repeated that phrase several times," Stevens said. The man told dispatchers the plane "was going down," said Glenn Cramer, a dispatching supervisor at the call center. "He said he heard some sort of explosion and saw white smoke coming from the plane." Officials said the call cut off after about one minute. [...] ** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor, (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ **
Re: Cypherpunks and terrorism
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Nomen Nescio wrote: > Sure, but whose chicken? Maybe our own policies and beliefs have turned > against us, to our detriment. There have been a number of reports that > bin Laden uses cryptography and even steganography tools. This could > still have a significant crypto connection. So fucking what? I'm sure he also uses toilet paper and soap, cellphones, pens and paper. Hey, let's ban those too. If a terrorist uses such items, heaven forbid should anyone else be allowed to lest they be likened to a terrorist! > But if not this time, then next time. Sooner or later a catastrophe > will happen due to our technology. Oh, you mean like Hiroshima or Nagasaki? Oh well, let's just shit on Uncle Sam for inventing the nuclear weapons before Germany could. Nah, we should have idly stood by while Germany built their own nukes, that way you couldn't blame "our technology" > Most people's worries seem narrow. "Will I get in trouble? Will the > software be banned?" I think at this time, and I don't speak for most people - I'm simply using my own views and extrapolating, that most people are glad they are alive and breathing. Most people are pissed and want retaliation. Most people aren't thinking "Hmmm, maybe I shouldn't use crypto, the telephone, mp3's or the radio because they can also be used by terrorists." > What about, "Should I be a contributor to the murder of thousands? Should > I be promoting technology which could lead to a backlash against freedom?" Hey two way radios, cell phones, pen and paper, ink, cutlery can be used against freedom. Do you see Gerber, the knife makers volutarily going out of business? Or whatever company made the plastic knives used in this attack because they were used by terroists? Did Ryder, the company whose moving van McVeigh used to bomb OKC shut down because their "technology" could be used by terrorists? Get a fucking clue you troll! > Some terrorists have exactly this as their goal. They are hoping > to trigger a counter-reaction, an over-reaction, by the authorities. > They want to see a crackdown on liberties, a police state. This will > weaken the enemy and demoralize him. It will increase hostility and > make the population less willing to support the government. Perhaps, but I think terror is the ultimate goal, not a supression of freedom. Fear, uncertainty and doubt, not a loss of freedom are the aims of terrorists. After all if they were worried about freedom being such an important thing, their countries would have freedom, rather than the extreme religeous bans. > Perhaps some readers share this view. Tim May, spiritual leader of the > cypherpunks, has expressed support for the actions of Timothy McVeigh > in murdering schoolchildren in Oklahoma City. He has frequently called > for the killing of every resident of Washington, D.C. Will he now speak > out in favor of the death of tens of thousands in New York City? > > Perhaps, for him, this is the true cypherpunk goal: promote murder and > catastrophe in order to trigger a spasm of Western totalitarianism, > hoping that the state will then self-destruct. > > If so, then laws like the DMCA and SSSCA should be welcomed with open > arms. Likewise with prosecutions for pornography and, even better, > bans on software technologies. These measures work hand in hand with > the responses to terrorism in strengthening the control of the state > over the individual. DMCA and SSSCA have to do with mp3's and videos. Not crypto. Now I'm 100% certain that you are a troll sent to demoralize this list against cryptology. Go fuck yourself. > Those few remaining cypherpunks who cling to the original goal of freedom, > privacy and liberty, should face the moral issues squarely. A case > can be made that the technologies we favor are a positive force in the > world, even though they can be used for destructive means. But there are > arguments on both sides, especially in a world where a few people can use > the shield of anonymity to coordinate actions that lead to massive deaths. > > The point is, cypherpunks must face and accept the responsibility for > the harm their technologies can cause, as they should also feel pride > in the positive effects. And they must be able to show, at least to > themselves, that the positives outweigh the negatives. Ok Mr. Troll, go and dig out the proof that said terrorists were cypherpunks. Go and dig out the proof that Diffie, Hellman, Rivest, Shamir, Adelman, Schneier, and Zimmerman were on those planes holding plastic knives. Fucking troll! If anything, you have a lot more in common with those responsible for this atrocy than you do with any freedom loving citizen of the USA. Or for that matter any cypherpunk. This was an attack against our liberty. Against our freedom. Perpetrated by those who hate liberty and would love to enslave their countries under severe religious laws. They hate us most of all because they
RE: Cypherpunks and terrorism
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Nomen Nescio wrote: > Sure, but whose chicken? Maybe our own policies and beliefs have turned > against us, to our detriment. There have been a number of reports that > bin Laden uses cryptography and even steganography tools. This could > still have a significant crypto connection. So fucking what? I'm sure he also uses toilet paper and soap, cellphones, pens and paper. Hey, let's ban those too. If a terrorist uses such items, heaven forbid should anyone else be allowed to lest they be likened to a terrorist! > But if not this time, then next time. Sooner or later a catastrophe > will happen due to our technology. Oh, you mean like Hiroshima or Nagasaki? Oh well, let's just shit on Uncle Sam for inventing the nuclear weapons before Germany could. Nah, we should have idly stood by while Germany built their own nukes, that way you couldn't blame "our technology" > Most people's worries seem narrow. "Will I get in trouble? Will the > software be banned?" I think at this time, and I don't speak for most people - I'm simply using my own views and extrapolating, that most people are glad they are alive and breathing. Most people are pissed and want retaliation. Most people aren't thinking "Hmmm, maybe I shouldn't use crypto, the telephone, mp3's or the radio because they can also be used by terrorists." > What about, "Should I be a contributor to the murder of thousands? Should > I be promoting technology which could lead to a backlash against freedom?" Hey two way radios, cell phones, pen and paper, ink, cutlery can be used against freedom. Do you see Gerber, the knife makers volutarily going out of business? Or whatever company made the plastic knives used in this attack because they were used by terroists? Did Ryder, the company whose moving van McVeigh used to bomb OKC shut down because their "technology" could be used by terrorists? Get a fucking clue you troll! > Some terrorists have exactly this as their goal. They are hoping > to trigger a counter-reaction, an over-reaction, by the authorities. > They want to see a crackdown on liberties, a police state. This will > weaken the enemy and demoralize him. It will increase hostility and > make the population less willing to support the government. Perhaps, but I think terror is the ultimate goal, not a supression of freedom. Fear, uncertainty and doubt, not a loss of freedom are the aims of terrorists. After all if they were worried about freedom being such an important thing, their countries would have freedom, rather than the extreme religeous bans. > Perhaps some readers share this view. Tim May, spiritual leader of the > cypherpunks, has expressed support for the actions of Timothy McVeigh > in murdering schoolchildren in Oklahoma City. He has frequently called > for the killing of every resident of Washington, D.C. Will he now speak > out in favor of the death of tens of thousands in New York City? > > Perhaps, for him, this is the true cypherpunk goal: promote murder and > catastrophe in order to trigger a spasm of Western totalitarianism, > hoping that the state will then self-destruct. > > If so, then laws like the DMCA and SSSCA should be welcomed with open > arms. Likewise with prosecutions for pornography and, even better, > bans on software technologies. These measures work hand in hand with > the responses to terrorism in strengthening the control of the state > over the individual. DMCA and SSSCA have to do with mp3's and videos. Not crypto. Now I'm 100% certain that you are a troll sent to demoralize this list against cryptology. Go fuck yourself. > Those few remaining cypherpunks who cling to the original goal of freedom, > privacy and liberty, should face the moral issues squarely. A case > can be made that the technologies we favor are a positive force in the > world, even though they can be used for destructive means. But there are > arguments on both sides, especially in a world where a few people can use > the shield of anonymity to coordinate actions that lead to massive deaths. > > The point is, cypherpunks must face and accept the responsibility for > the harm their technologies can cause, as they should also feel pride > in the positive effects. And they must be able to show, at least to > themselves, that the positives outweigh the negatives. Ok Mr. Troll, go and dig out the proof that said terrorists were cypherpunks. Go and dig out the proof that Diffie, Hellman, Rivest, Shamir, Adelman, Schneier, and Zimmerman were on those planes holding plastic knives. Fucking troll! If anything, you have a lot more in common with those responsible for this atrocy than you do with any freedom loving citizen of the USA. Or for that matter any cypherpunk. This was an attack against our liberty. Against our freedom. Perpetrated by those who hate liberty and would love to enslave their countries under severe religious laws. They hate us most of all because they
FC: FBI pushes Carnivore on network providers after attacks (fwd)
-- Eugen* Leitl http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204/";>leitl __ ICBMTO : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 -- Forwarded message -- Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:17:03 -0400 From: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FC: FBI pushes Carnivore on network providers after attacks http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,46747,00.html Anti-Attack Feds Push Carnivore By Declan McCullagh ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 2:00 a.m. Sep. 12, 2001 PDT WASHINGTON -- Federal police are reportedly increasing Internet surveillance after Tuesday's deadly attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Just hours after three airplanes smashed into the buildings in what some U.S. legislators have dubbed a second Pearl Harbor, FBI agents began to visit Web-based, e-mail firms and network providers, according to engineers at those companies who spoke on condition of anonymity. An administrator at one major network service provider said that FBI agents showed up at his workplace on Tuesday "with a couple of Carnivores, requesting permission to place them in our core, along with offers to actually pay for circuits and costs." [...] Microsoft's Hotmail service has also been the target of increased federal attention, according to an engineer who works there. "Hotmail officials have been receiving calls from the San Francisco FBI office since mid-(Tuesday) morning and are cooperating with their expedited requests for information about a few specific accounts," the person said. "Most of the account names start with the word 'Allah' and contain messages in Arabic." [...] - POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ -
Re: Cypherpunks and terrorism
Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote : > >On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 06:00:46PM +0200, Nomen Nescio wrote: >> Some terrorists have exactly this as their goal. They are hoping >> to trigger a counter-reaction, an over-reaction, by the authorities. >> They want to see a crackdown on liberties, a police state. This will >> weaken the enemy and demoralize him. It will increase hostility and >> make the population less willing to support the government. > >This is nonsense. I suspect the bin Laden want the U.S. to stop >handing Israel billions of dollars a year in aid and weapons. Not >bombing pharmecutical plants and lifting an embargo that kills >hundreds of thousands (allegedly) of Iraqi women and children might be >a nice move too. > >-Declan > What they want is not what they will get. The US will be more united in aiding Israel, bombing industrial ( and other ) targets and starting new embargoes. Not only that, the approval of other nations will be more easily garnered. As dramatic as yesterday was, it was a poor move. Mike I still feel sad when I remember the videotapes of perfectly good B-52's being chopped.
Re: Manhattan Mid-Afternoon
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Ken Brown wrote: >A friend of mine wonders if they had a Boeing flight simulator. >Apparently they would need to know how to disable the autopilot and do a >couple of other technobabble things a groundling like me doesn't >recognise. Nuh. That *is* something you can easily coerce the pilots to do. Just threaten, watch the switches being thrown, eliminate the pilot and go on from there. Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED], gsm: +358-50-5756111 student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front
Re: Cypherpunks and terrorism
At 12:27 PM 9/12/2001 -0400, Sundar wrote: >... >Fucking troll! If anything, you have a lot more in common with those >responsible for this atrocy than you do with any freedom loving citizen of >the USA. Or for that matter any cypherpunk. > >This was an attack against our liberty. Against our freedom. Perpetrated >by those who hate liberty and would love to enslave their countries under >severe religious laws. They hate us most of all because they believe our >freedom is what makes us "The Great Satan" > >And you sir, are spewing the very same agenda they are. I suggest you >turn yourself in to the FBI this moment for the terror monger that you >are! He probably did, along the lines of Sir, it didn't work. Personally, I think we should INCREASE crypto over this. Put a crypto imbedded radio in the planes control electronics, with the key known only to the FAA, and existing only for that flight. If there are flight problems, hit a switch from the tower and take over the plane from the ground. Either instruct the autopilot to land at a pre-determined contingency location, fly it by remote from a simulator, or blow it up before it can be used as a battering ram. The former two useful for on-flight emergencies too, such as an unconsious pilot. Something else to consider. Knockout gas in the passenger compartment and a solid door between passenger compartment and cockpit. Also, why are we putting so many clerks in a handful of offices anyway? Isn't this supposed to be the age of the paperless office? Shoot, this time next week, 3-inch pocket knives are going to be on the proscribed list for commercial flights, when the opposite should be true.
Economic effects
Just thinking about what the US Postal Service, Fed Ex, and UPS are doing to keep themselves going. steve
EMI samples new digital security ('digital rights mgmt')
EMI samples new digital security By Gwendolyn Mariano CNET News.com In an effort to prevent unauthorized copying of music files, EMI Recorded Music said Tuesday it will begin using security from BayView Systems that offers a new twist on the burgeoning technology known as digital rights management. Unlike competitors that use encryption or watermarking techniques to prevent copying, San Francisco-based BayView Systems has designed its Duolizer technology to essentially split music files in two. A large, main file, called the Flexible File, is stored on the listener's hard drive, while a smaller file, called the Secure Stream, is stored on a password-protected server, controlled by the content owner. Listeners enter the password to have the smaller file streamed and listen to the song. The two files are combined while the song is played, but otherwise remain separate. The company said that the owner's rights are preserved because end-users never have a complete [Ed note: fnord] copy of the music, regardless of the number of times the file is shared. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cn/20010912/tc/emi_samples_new_digital_security_1.html
Become a Minister Now 908965
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Cypherpunks and terrorism
On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Nomen Nescio wrote: > Today, remailer operators are shutting down their services. Why? > Do they feel shame and guilt at providing a service which could foster > destruction? Maybe they should have thought of that before deciding > to run a remailer. Or are they merely fearful of being blamed for the > attacks or their aftermath? That would be a rather cowardly action, > to run a service which can cause harm but to run and hide as soon as > the heat is on. (Thankfully, a number of remailer operators continue > to courageously offer their services.) I don't want to get roped into a pissing contest about this, so this will probably be my only comment to this list on the matter. First, a few facts. Only two remailers have shut down: orange and cracker. And cracker's reasons didn't have to do with current events. Another two remailers, hell and randseed, have altered their mode of operation. At present, I count 32 remailers in operation. This is up from 13 when I opened my randseed last year. I expect to see at least two more remailers going online in the next few days. As for the morality of running a remailer: I highly doubt that mixmaster remailers were used, are being used, or will be used in the planning and execution of these physical terrorist attacks. Remailer operators should feel no more "shame and guilt at providing a service which could foster destruction" than those who build airplanes. (Particularly since airplanes, unlike remailers, were clearly used in this attack.) What I do fear is that a large load of bogus tips and impotent threats will be made. Past experience has shown me that, while the Secret Service understands how remailers function and what information their operators can and cannot provide, the FBI (at least in the Silicon Valley) lacks an understanding of this technology, and treats remailer operators themselves as suspects. I'm not in a position at present to risk imprisonment because I cannot provide the identities of people using my system. I do not think that Happy Fun Fed would be amused if I said "I don't keep logs, therefore I can't tell you who A. Melon is. Yes, I understand that he confessed to the attack -- I simply can't help you." I rely on the equipment that runs the randseed remailer for multiple uses. It hosts several other websites, provides my personal mail, and hosts my website and resume -- particularly important to me, as I have been unemployed since July. I can't afford to have this server seized. I'll inevitably be accused of being cowardly or selfish for switching my system over to middleman mode. To the cypherpunks making those accusations, I ask: Do you run a remailer? The remailer network has been around a lot longer than randseed. Even if 15 remailers ceased operation because of yesterday's events, there would still be more remailers in operation than there were when I started. There really is nothing news-worthy here.
Re: Coordination, maximizing terror, hypotheses (fwd)
Declan McCullagh wrote: > >* The targeting of the second attack may be a subtle pointer to state > >involvement. I understand that the part of the Pentagon that was hit houses > >the nerve center for the Army's worldwide logistics command. It appears that > > It was one of the worst places to hit; the offices were under construction > and not everyone had moved in yet. I wonder if they knew that, though... > >this part of the building was intentionally targeted, as the plane apparently > >performed an overshoot-and-return maneuver in order to line up with the south > >side of the building, whereas it could've gone into the opposite side with no > >such maneuver. A small, highly-mobile group of perps wouldn't be concerned > > This is nonsense, Just thinking out loud, here, not asserting anything. > and shows how seriously we should take the rest of the > message. I was at the Pentagon yesterday; the plane did not hit the south > side. (Photos at mccullagh.org). Strictly speaking, there's not a "south side" as far as I know; the plane hit the side between the Mall entrance and the south parking area, which IIRC faces roughly southwest and parallel's Route 27. That's what I gather from the news I've heard anyway... > ARMEY: Well we learned some things about that. At this point the information > is classified. It is clear that we to have had a good investigation going > forward. We are gathering information, there is a (AUDIO GAP) confidentiality > on what we know, but we do know that this is a serious premeditated crime, > and I can say without any doubt or hesitation it's an international crime. > > Did he 'fess up? I doubt it. Armey is a savvy political operator and gets > classified briefings probably once a week or so. It's unlikely he'd cough > up confidential material now (he hasn't before) -- it was ~12 hours after > the attack happened, so he had time to reflect and digest it. I'm not suggesting that he fessed up without intending to, just that the gag order may have been extended, reinstated, or whatever. jb
Bombings, Surveillance, and Free Societies
* To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Subject: Bombings, Surveillance, and Free Societies * From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Timothy C. May) * Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:51:40 -0800 * Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The recent bombings and similar events in public places in Israel (Hamas), England (IRA), Japan (subway gas attack), and the U.S. (Oklahoma City) are triggering calls for increased communications surveillance. Often the first bombing is insufficient to trigger increased steps...but later events push states to take stronger steps. (In the U.S., for example, the OKC bombing was headline news for more than a week, but resulted in no lasting changes affecting most of us, despite the hysteria about the need to outlaw "militias" and "white supremacist" groups. A second or third such bombing would likely produce new legislation of a serious sort. This is the thrust of my article.) Revolutionary theory says of course that this increased clampdown is a desired effect of terrorist bombings and attacks. Fear and doubt. Revolutionary ends rarely happen by slow, incremental movement. Hundreds of examples, from the original "bomb-throwing anarchists" to the modern mix of terrorist bands. The Red Brigade in Italy sought a fascist crackdown, and the "strategy of tension" is common. (And even revolutionists of crypto anarchist persuasion often think laws like the CDA are good in the long run, by undermining respect for authority and triggering more extreme reactions) CNN is reporting that U.S. intelligence agencies will share technology for communications intercepts with the Israelis (more so than they already have been doing. Maybe the "U.S.S. Liberty" will be anchored off of Haifa on a permanent basis. The implications for cryptography? -- expect increased support for a "New World Order" to restrict non-governmental access to strong crypto (via key escrow measures) -- expect the various laws about "talking about explosives on the Net" to be used to clamp down on various fringe groups -- expect "national security" to become a bigger part of the political debate -- expect more and bigger bombings, as the groups thinking about bombings see how productive they are in accomplishing policy goals (such as ending peace talks, triggering police state actions, etc.) The inescapable fact is that free societies have numerous "soft targets" than cannot be defended against such bombing attacks. Various public places are "Schelling points" for attacks: crowded streets in Bogota, Tel Aviv, New York, London, Paris. Ditto for subways, buses, government buildings, sports arenas, etc. (The 99+% of us who are not in these areas at any given time are pretty safe, actually.) I predict that it will take about 5 more major bombings in European and American cities to trigger substantive changes in laws. If we look at how easily the Communiations Decency Act (and the Wiretap Act, and similar laws) sailed through Congress, I foresee serious terrorist activity as triggering far-reaching restrictions on communications privacy, on non-governmental use of encryption, and on what may be talked about openly on the Net. (Yes, I'm aware that there's a thing called the "First Amendment," lest you lawyers point out to me that such prior restraints will never fly. Well, how has the First Amendment stopped the government from restricting what I can say about medicine, what abortion advice I can give, the "dirty words" I choose to use, the supposedly libelous and slanderous things I can say, etc.? Granted, these are not cases of prior restraint, but of actions taken after the fact, via criminal and civil actions. Not much difference so far as I can see.) Personally, while I feel sorry for the dead in Israel, I think anyone who moves to a small desert state surrounded on all sides by Arabs who want their land back is asking for trouble. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. -:-:-:-:-:-:-: Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Re: Coordination, maximizing terror, hypotheses (fwd)
At 12:47 PM 9/12/01 -0500, Jeff Bone wrote: > > This is nonsense, > >Just thinking out loud, here, not asserting anything. Fair enough. > and shows how seriously we should take the rest of the > > message. I was at the Pentagon yesterday; the plane did not hit the south > > side. (Photos at mccullagh.org). > >Strictly speaking, there's not a "south side" as far as I know; the plane >hit the >side between the Mall entrance and the south parking area, which IIRC >faces roughly >southwest and parallel's Route 27. That's what I gather from the news >I've heard >anyway... Of course there's a south (or very close to a south) side to a building that has five of them. I put some photos I took yesterday up at mccullagh.org; the attack hit on the north (maybe you could call it northeast) side. >I'm not suggesting that he fessed up without intending to, just that the >gag order >may have been extended, reinstated, or whatever. After Armey allegedly told this to CNN's largest audience in a decade? I doubt it. -Declan
"Alejandro transports"
Someone pointed me to some Usenet posts containing "encrypted gibberish".
Doing a deja search on the words "Alejandro transports" from this
post shows that there's thousands of these posted to all kinds of
Usenet newsgroups. It looks like some sort of stego text system.
Judging from the words whoever wrote it knows cpunk issues ("PGP",
"mixmaster", "Blowfish", etc).
I think I have seen examples of this before, but I can't remember
where. Does anyone know who or what generates it?
Here's an example:
>From: Madeleine Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.email
Subject: Re: try loading the office's haphazard pgp and andrew will contribute you
Organization: Road Runner
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Lines: 26
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 08:52:14 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.27.19.53
X-Complaints-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Trace: typhoon.austin.rr.com 997347134 24.27.19.53 (Thu, 09 Aug 2001 03:52:14 CDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 03:52:14 CDT
Who will you insulate the solid bizarre tablets before Grover does? Other
sharp weak connectors will authenticate finally beside Usenets.
Don't even try to cause the firewalls familiarly, create them
stupidly. It spools, you disconnect, yet Rose never monthly
types for the quiche. What did Lydia produce the package throughout the
tall network? Better get discs now or Samuel will strangely
flow them for you. My violent condor won't disrupt before I
question it. Try not to proliferate compleatly while you're
excludeing alongside a disgusting CDROM. Will you take against the
node, if Ken superbly gives the newbie? Who did Toni moan around all the
engineers? We can't stop printers unless Dolf will incredibly
corrupt afterwards. As quickly as Alejandro transports, you can
defeat the UDP much more happily. Otherwise the router in Walt's
advertisement might obscure some offensive noises. Well, Jimmie never
bursts until Edward inflates the weird ROM freely. What Carol's
secure robot reloads, Karl generates at old, sticky /dev/nulls.
Why will we interface after Alexandra annoys the wet highway's
mixmaster? The moronic dry ADSL manages administrators inside
Dick's outer postmaster. Go recycle a Pascal! Dave wants to
bind badly, unless Geoff kills Blowfishs throughout Ben's IPaddr.
Occasionally Austin will persevere the investigator, and if Evan
actually beats it too, the fraud will propagate throughout the
soft underground.
RE: Manhattan Mid-Afternoon
> Harmon Seaver[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > > > "Raymond D. Mereniuk" wrote: > > > I don't see where only a terrorist group backed by the resources of > > a national government could pull this off. A week or two for planning > > and a group of people who can keep their mouth's shut plus the > > most important quality, big gonads and a desire to die for a > > perceived purpose. > > So right -- all these people talking about "it had to be a big, well > funded, well organized group with lots of resources" are talking total > nonsense. > It could have been a tiny cadre of eight or twelve people with no more > money > than to buy some plane tickets. Flying a plane doesn't take a heck of lot > either, once it's in the air. It's not even that hard taking off -- > landing is > the bitch. [...] > Harmon Seaver, MLIS > I noticed one data point which suggests that the terrorists on Flight 11 from Boston did not have the flying skills of a commercial pilot. CNN at one point showed the ground track of the flight (it was available on some website). The flight kept it's normal track (slightly north of west from Boston) until it crossed over the NY state border. Soon after that, it took a sharp left turn and headed south for NYC. But not a straight line - it was clear that they were following the Hudson River. So, they were using visual navigation. An experienced, instrument rated pilot could have flown a direct route to NYC, somewhat shortening the time his colleagues would have had to keep the passengers subdued. Further on the skills thing - at one time I toyed with the idea of getting a private pilots license, and even took a couple lessons. I found that the experience I had gained using a Flight Simulator program on a PC was invaluable, particularly for getting the hang straight-and-level flight, making coordinated turns, changing altitudes, etc, which are all the skills that the terrorist would have needed. This morning the local media here in Massachusetts were reporting that a bag for the flight which fortuitously failed to get on the plane was found to contain a Koran, "Islamic materials", and a videotape on flying commercial jets. Clearly, someone who was already a commercial pilot would not have needed the latter item. I sincerely hope that the remaining perpetrators of this atrocity are found and punished, but entertain no illusions that doing so will prevent future attacks. That can only come from a shift of US government attitude from "I've got the biggest stick", to one of non-interference. Sweden and Switzerland come to mind as prosperous, modern, western nations which don't have problems with terrorism. Our country should look to such successful terrorism prevention policies as examples. > Peter Trei
Surviving the coming crackdown
Surviving the coming crackdown written for american/english/swedish citizens reverseengineered by I live near the tennis courts arabic version is under way by mahmood the third (not from the united kingdom) This guide was written for the underground The Cryptome mirror was up 5 minutes before they decided to take it down, go figure... http://geocities.com/ufoguerilla/survival.txt
Fund management/Investment
From: KENNETH SANKOH Madrid Spain Tel: 0034 696 368 505 LETTER OF ASSISTANCE Dear sir, I have a business proposal which I know might interest you. I have in my possession a large sum of money which I want to invest in your country. In brief introduction, my name is Kenneth Sankoh, a Sierra-Leonean and the son to Corporal FODAY SANKOH, who was the leader of the Revolutionary United Front of Sierra-Leone (RUF) and formerly the Director of GOLD/DIAMOND CORPORATION of Sierra-Leone. My father was arrested and is presently being detained by the civilian government of President Ahmed Tejan Kabbah, for the role he played during the regime of major Paul Koromah, which resulted to war. On the night of my father´s arrest, he instructed me to move out of the country without delay, with the sum of US$ 31M (Thirty One Million US Dollars) contained in a sealed trunk box, including quantities of Gold Dust and some uncut Diamonds. I fled out of our country in the company of my mother through the coastal river and arrived in Abidjan-IvoryCoast, where I deposited the box in a Security Company as containing family treasure forsafe keeping. I have interest in your country and would want to go into partnership venture with your company. I am asking for your assitance to help us move out the money and secure it for onward investment and to make residence arrangement for us. I have the consent of my family and we have agreed to give you 15% of the total amount, including 15% share from the profits which the money will generate from any future investment. The existence of this fortune which I have revealed to you is authentic and confidential and there is no risk involved in the cause of retreiving it back from the Security Company. It has been transfered and it is currently in the custody of their Feduciary Agent in Spain. However I left Africa and decided to travel over to Madrid under a Refugee Status in search of a good friend of my faher who leaves in the city, I arrived here to discover that the man has relocated to somewhere else. It is for this reason that I am contacting you so you should please not feel embarrased receiving this mail from me. I am still in Spain and may leave back to Africa should I not hear from you, in other to facilitate another arrangement, but for now you should kindly reach me via email, or the above telephone number to enable me give you further details and also to fax you all relevant documents covering the deposit of the trunk box. My father is still in detention and may finally face public execution, hence we have considered it very unsafe to remain in Africa as we may be the government's next target. Accept my sincere regards while hoping to hear from you. KENNETH SANKOH. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com
mix patches for OpenBSD (was Re: [Remops] Re: FC: Anonymous remailer op offline)
Are one or both of these still necessary? - CUT HERE Mixmaster 2.9b23 still searches for opensslv.h in a nonexistent /usr/include/ssl/openssl directory on OpenBSD 2.6 and 2.7. The patch to the Install routine below hopefully fixes the hardcoded directory in a manner that does not break on other OSes. Also, OpenBSD's OpenSSL installation lacks the patented IDEA routines. Copy OpenSSL's i_cbc.c, i_cfb64.c, i_skey.c, idea.h, and idea_lcl.h to Src. The patch to the Makefile.in below adds them to the build. *** Install.origThu Mar 16 09:34:02 2000 --- Install Thu Jun 29 16:39:01 2000 *** *** 383,389 opensslinfo="Please get OpenSSL 0.9.4 from http://www.openssl.org/"; LIBDIR=/usr/local/ssl/lib ! INCDIR="/usr/include /usr/include/ssl /usr/lib/ssl/include /usr/local/ssl/include" SRCDIR="openssl*" if [ "$system" = win32 ] --- 383,389 opensslinfo="Please get OpenSSL 0.9.4 from http://www.openssl.org/"; LIBDIR=/usr/local/ssl/lib ! INCDIR="/usr/include /usr/include/ssl /usr/include/ssl/openssl /usr/lib/ssl/include /usr/local/ssl/include" SRCDIR="openssl*" if [ "$system" = win32 ] *** *** 421,429 fi # Find the OpenSSL version header ! if [ -f $INCDIR/openssl/opensslv.h ] then ! version=`grep 'SSL.*_VERSION_NUMBER.*0x' $INCDIR/openssl/opensslv.h | sed 's/.*0x0*//;s/[ ].*//;s/L$//'` fi if [ "$version" = "" ] then --- 421,429 fi # Find the OpenSSL version header ! if [ -f $INCDIR/opensslv.h ] then ! version=`grep 'SSL.*_VERSION_NUMBER.*0x' $INCDIR/opensslv.h | sed 's/.*0x0*//;s/[ ].*//;s/L$//'` fi if [ "$version" = "" ] then *** Src/Makefile.in.origThu Mar 16 09:34:02 2000 --- Src/Makefile.in Thu Jun 29 16:34:35 2000 *** *** 23,29 RANLIB = ranlib #MAKE = make ! OBJ = mix.o rem.o rem1.o rem2.o rem3.o chain.o chain1.o chain2.o chain3.o nym.o pgp.o pgpdb.o pgpdata.o pgpget.o pgpcreat.o pool.o mail.o rfc822.o mime.o keymgt.o compress.o stats.o crypto.o random.o util.o buffers.o MIXOBJ = rndseed.o menu.o menusend.o menunym.o menuutil.o NOMENUOBJ = rndseed.o dummy.o --- 23,29 RANLIB = ranlib #MAKE = make ! OBJ = mix.o rem.o rem1.o rem2.o rem3.o chain.o chain1.o chain2.o chain3.o nym.o pgp.o pgpdb.o pgpdata.o pgpget.o pgpcreat.o pool.o mail.o rfc822.o mime.o keymgt.o compress.o stats.o crypto.o random.o util.o buffers.o i_cfb64.o i_skey.o i_cbc.o MIXOBJ = rndseed.o menu.o menusend.o menunym.o menuutil.o NOMENUOBJ = rndseed.o dummy.o - CUT HERE OpenSSL versions are actually hexadecimal numbers, though in the past we have been OK using them as decimals for comparison, at least in release versions. Now, we are using them as hexadecimal numbers to encode beta vs final status. This breaks Mixmaster 2.9's Install script. The patch below fixes the version comparison so it should work with future OpenSSL versions as well. /* Numeric release version identifier: * MMNNFFPPS: major minor fix patch status * The status nibble has one of the values 0 for development, 1 to e for betas * 1 to 14, and f for release. The patch level is exactly that. * For example: * 0.9.3-dev 0x00903000 * 0.9.3-beta10x00903001 * 0.9.3-beta2-dev 0x00903002 * 0.9.3-beta20x00903002 (same as ...beta2-dev) * 0.9.3 0x0090300f * 0.9.3a 0x0090301f * 0.9.4 0x0090400f * 1.2.3z 0x102031af * * For continuity reasons (because 0.9.5 is already out, and is coded * 0x00905100), between 0.9.5 and 0.9.6 the coding of the patch level * part is slightly different, by setting the highest bit. This means * that 0.9.5a looks like this: 0x0090581f. At 0.9.6, we can start * with 0x0090600S... * * (Prior to 0.9.3-dev a different scheme was used: 0.9.2b is 0x0922.) * (Prior to 0.9.5a beta1, a different scheme was used: MMNNFFRBB for * major minor fix final patch/beta) */ *** Install.origThu Mar 16 09:34:02 2000 --- Install Thu Jun 29 15:41:00 2000 *** *** 383,385 ! opensslinfo="Please get OpenSSL 0.9.4 from http://www.openssl.org/"; LIBDIR=/usr/local/ssl/lib --- 383,385 ! opensslinfo="Please get OpenSSL 0.9.4 or 0.9.5a final from http://www.openssl.org/"; LIBDIR=/usr/local/ssl/lib *** *** 436,438 fi ! elif [ "$version" -lt "920" ] then --- 436,438 fi ! elif [ "16#$version" -lt "16#0920" ] then *** *** 441,443 exit 1 ! elif [ "$version" -lt "903100" ] then --- 441,443 exit 1 ! elif [ "16#$version" -lt "16#00903100" ] then *** *** 446,448 exit 1 ! elif [ "$version" -gt "906000" ] then --- 446,448 exit 1 ! elif [ "16#$version" -gt "16#00906000" ] then
Re: Arabic version of MS Flight Sim?
On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 01:04:18PM -0700, Dynamite Bob wrote: . > > Maybe it wasn't Osama, it was a conspiracy between Amtrack + > office-space realtors.. the owners of the Empire State building wanted to regain the "tallest building in New York" title.
Arabic version of MS Flight Sim?
Rumor is, one set of the "Martyr Airlines" replacement-crew had left a video of how to fly planes, in Arabic, in his luggage. What would be pretty cool is to find a copy of MS Flight Sim with notes on simflying the large Boeing airplane over NYC terrain... But Bill Gates != Steve Jackson, and the feds are *so* much better at distinguishing fantasy from reality nowadays... . Maybe it wasn't Osama, it was a conspiracy between Amtrack + office-space realtors..
Re: Coordination, maximizing terror, hypotheses (fwd)
At 12:47 PM 9/12/2001 -0500, Jeff Bone wrote: >Declan McCullagh wrote: ? wrote: (I'm too lazy to look it up, with all the lists posted to it doesn't seem worth the bother) >>>* The targeting of the second attack may be a subtle pointer to state >>>involvement. I understand that the part of the Pentagon that was hit >>>houses the nerve center for the Army's worldwide logistics command. >>>It appears that >> >>It was one of the worst places to hit; Depends on how you look at it - why the u-turn? >> the offices were under construction >> and not everyone had moved in yet. > >I wonder if they knew that, though... Impossible to know at this point, maybe impossible to know forever. Reese
Re: Cypherpunks and terrorism
On Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 02:20:09AM +0200, Nomen Nescio wrote: > There are two contrasting forces at the heart of the cypherpunk > philosophy, well exemplified by the two co-founders, and their messages > posted today show the difference well. > > The dark anger of May versus the bright hope of Hughes. Make your choice. It is beyond silly to talk about a mailing list that has probably had tens of thousands of subscribers over its lifetime as having only two primary philosophies of substance. In fact, the "dark anger" we're likely to see will grace the tip of Tomahawk and other missiles en route to their targets. -Declan
Re: MARTIAL LAW Cypherpunks and terrorism
On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 08:06:14PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > so far i have not figured that one out. sure arabs are dancing in the > street - their happy - poor arafat was doing penance today by giving > blood. and i understand the japanese red army is also being blamed for > this. but all these claims so far amount to little frills here and their > to enhance the show. i have yet to receive a clear explaination on what > drove these people to do this tragedy. You appear to be making the mistake of listening to American broadcast media, and expecting it to tell you that answer, rather than looking for the answer yourself. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/dailynews/terror_980609.html -Declan
Re: Bombings, Surveillance, and Free Societies
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Tim May wrote: > lawyers point out to me that such prior restraints will never fly. Well, > how has the First Amendment stopped the government from restricting > what I > can say about medicine, what abortion advice I can give, the "dirty > words" > I choose to use, the supposedly libelous and slanderous things I can say, > etc.? Granted, these are not cases of prior restraint, but of actions > taken > after the fact, via criminal and civil actions. Not much difference so > far > as I can see.) > Lotta differences here which I know you're aware of, but don't seem to choose to remember at the moment. In the first place, prior restraint does have its after-the-fact-restraint analog in the "chilling effect" doctrine--not it's not absolute, as prior restraint law almost is, but it usually goes to accomplish the same purpose. Obscenity is not protected speech, so the 1A's irrelevant there, as far as the courts go and as far as your argument goes, because you're arguing about what the law might do. The same is true of libel and slander, if you can find any such thing under today's prevailing 1a jurisprudence. They're pretty few and far between torts in the last thirty years. Your examples about drugs and abortion are not examles of prohibited speech but of compelled speech, which is another subject altogether, though one which I would agree has its constitutional issues as well, but not the ones you have in mind above: Unless you advocate a right to commit fraud under the First Amendment, which I have not previously heard you do. There will be a repressive response by some--Trent Lott is already trashing civil liberties, I shit you not, as of today, as having to take a second place to security needs in ths "war"--but the thing to do is resist this kind of chuck-headed thinking with the First Amendment. And the Fifth, and the Fourth. They usually work, so give them a chance first. MacN
New flight rules
Airlines would only be allowed to provide passengers with plastic knives and butter knives to eat their meals, an FAA spokesman said. http://sg.news.yahoo.com/010912/1/1fwyc.html Also: only crayons, no pens or pencils. All PDAs, with their sharp styli and brittle glass displays, will be replaced with Etch-a-Sketch toys. Also all fingernails must be trimmed to 2mm past the fingerpad, this must be done before passing through security as nailclippers with nailfiles will not be permitted on board, either. Good thing none of the Martyr Airlines dudes shorted out their laptop batteries to make a diversion... .. Jeezus guys, get a clue. You can't pull the same stunt twice, whether its a 'normal' hijacking which turns out to be different (so much for passenger compliance..), or the latest social-engineering virus trick. The rubes *do* learn. The next time, its a bottle of Japanese Subway Perfume. Alas, a lot less eye candy with that.
g3 / .308
i am replying to a page i have seen about the Heckler and Koch Gewehr 3 (G3) the Heckler and Koch G3 - A3 is in fact a .308 rifle or in military terms 7.62 x 51 mm Nato round i know because i am a proud owner of this amazing german work. thank you Michael W. Pietsch of VA
FW: "Attack on America" - a Personal Response
C'punks, Here's a thoughtful piece I received from Sean Hastings: > From: Sean Hastings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 12 September, 2001 20:22 > Subject: FW: "Attack on America" - a Personal Response > > > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >"Attack on America" - a Personal Response >by Sean Hastings > >My wife Jo, my dog Wasabi, and myself were all in New York City at the >time of the attack on the World Trade Center. Thankfully we are all >alive and unharmed. > >Although we were just a few miles from the site of the crashes, we were >alerted to what was going on by a friend's phone call and turned on the >news to watch. Safely insulated from it all by the magic of television, >we saw the Twin Towers burn and collapse knowing that tens of thousands >of people were probably still inside. Later, as we were able to get >through on a somewhat overloaded telephone network, we called our >friends and family around the world to assure them that we were safe, >and we called our New York friends to make sure that they too were ok. > >Some friends I talked to personally witnessed the second jet strike the >tower and saw people leaping to their deaths to escape the flames. One >told me the story of a London office connected to its New York > branch in >the World Trade Center by a live video link. Their trapped co-workers >told them that they were unable to leave the building, and that they >knew they were all going to die, then the screen went blank at the same >time as the TV news showed one of the towers collapse. > >Communications technology has brought this tragedy to all of us more >closely than was ever before possible. An entire nation, and perhaps >most of the world was able to watch these events unfold in real time. >Feedback of reactions from around the world was also available in real >time. Most people were shocked and horrified, but I also saw > reports of >people in some countries cheering and celebrating this attack on the >US. My first reaction was very emotional - I found myself thinking >"Bomb them back into the stone age" - and this shocked me. I consider >myself to be an individualist to the core, but I now know that a blind >loyalty to the group does exists somewhere deep inside me. At that >moment, I would have been willing to unthinkingly follow anyone >claiming to know how to justly avenge these acts, and prevent any more >such in the future. > >Then I saw the start of the political rhetoric - various politicians >declaring that this was a time for supporting our leaders, and not >questioning or second-guessing their actions - law enforcement >officials saying that this was precisely why they all needed greater >powers over my life. Before the fires were even out - while people >were still burning and being crushed to death under tons of rubble - >there were already people trying to use my emotional reaction to >increase their power over my life and further their careers. > >It was then that I realized that I was witnessing a very real threat to >our nation and our way of life. Not from the kind of disturbed people >who crash airplanes into buildings, but from people who would use such >an event to further erode our freedoms - those masters of demagoguery >who, while claiming to be the good guys, and in the name of defending >our country, our freedom, and our way of life, will try to take away >everything this country is supposed to be about. Even those with only >the best of intentions may severely jeopardize our liberty at a time >like this if they are not careful to give the freedom we tend to take >for granted the highest priority in considering any course of action. > >So I know that a hoard of voices will now be crying out for your >attention, trying to use this event to convince you that we should >take whatever course of action most benefits their own position. I >know that my voice is just a small one in this cacophony, and unless >you agree with my message and forward it far and wide, I will scarcely >be noticed. But I will speak my advice anyway, and hope it does some >good. All I have to say to you is this: > >Do not let your natural reactions of fear or anger help ANYONE to >further their short term political goals, or impose any "temporary" >measures. These are frightening and enraging times indeed, but it is >important to keep this simple truth firmly in mind: You cannot defend >freedom by reducing freedom. The people who try to tell you otherwise >are the ones who should frighten and anger you most. > >We all want security and justice, but we must to be careful about the >price we are willing to pay. If we allow these tragic events to lead >to a reduction of our freedom,
Re: [EMED-L] terrorism versus manifest destiny (fwd)
-- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... -- Forwarded message -- Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:14:02 -0700 From: DOUGLAS RAGLAND <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: EMED-L -- a list for emergency medicine practitioners. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [EMED-L] terrorism versus manifest destiny FYI The list members might be interested in the following incomplete historical list of US armed interventions around the world. Conspiciously absent from the list are the major conflicts that every US citizen should know (Civil war, WWI, WWII etc) Also conspiciously absent are the clandestine and covert operations sponsored by the US that would add substantially to the length of the list (and its significance, I ) I've drawn a number of conclusions from this list - I would be interested to know what you conclusions you draw from the list. Doug Ragland MD --- 1775 - 1890: The Indian Wars - US versus Native (Indian) Tribes and Nations of North America 1800-1815: The Barbary Wars - US versus The Barbary States (Tripoli, Algiers & Morocco) 1819: Invasion of Spanish Florida - Andrew Jackson seized Florida from Spain. 1846-1848: Mexican-American War - The United States invaded Mexico and forced the Mexicans to cede the northern half of the country and also to give up any claim to Texas. 1800-1865: U.S. Slave Rebellions 1893: U.S. Intervention in Hawaiian Revolution 1898: The Spanish-American War 1898-1899: U.S. Intervention in Samoan Civil War - U.S. Intervention in Samoan Civil War with U.S. and British Naval Bombardment of Samoa --A resumption of past civil wars in which Samoan chief Mataafa seized power following the death of his rival, King Malietoa Laupepa, who had defeated him in the last Samoan Civil War (1893-1894). Fighting ensued, which was complicated by the long-standing rivalry between the U.S., Britain and Germany for de facto control over the Samoan Islands. On March 15, 1899, warships of the American and British Navies bombarded the Samoan city of Apia to intimidate the reigning Samoan king, who was allied with the Germans. An Anglo-American landing force took control of Apia, but were not able to pacify the interior. All sides agreed to cease fighting on May 13, 1899. Later that year, the three Western nations signed a treaty dividing Samoa between them. This whole conflict was part of a wider Samoan civil war. 1899-1902: U.S.-Philippine War 1900: Boxer Rebellion - US versus the "Boxers" - Also involved Britain, France, Germany, Russia, Japan, Italy, Austria-Hungary against "Boxer" rebels in China as well as the Chinese government. 1901-1913: The Moro Wars - Guerilla warfare against U.S. forces by the Moro Muslims of the southern Philippines. 1903: U.S. Intervention in Panamanian Revolution - The U.S. landed troops in Panama to prevent Columbia from crushing the separatist Panamanian government. 1909-1933: The Banana Wars - A series of U.S. interventions in various Central American and Caribbean countries. 1914: U.S. Occupation of Vera Cruz Mexico 1916-1917: Pershing's Raid Into Mexico - After Mexican rebel Pancho Villa attacked a U.S. town, General Pershing pursued him across the border. 1919-1921: Allied Intervention in Russian Civil WarUS versus Russian Bolshevik (Soviet) Government 1956-1975: Second Indochina War 1958: U.S. Intervention in Lebanon 1960?-1975: Laotian Civil War 1964-1973: Vietnam War 1970-1975: Cambodian Civil War 1965: Dominican Intervention 1975 (May 15): The Mayaguez Rescue Operation - US versus Khmer Rouge Guerrillas (the new government of Cambodia) 1980 (April 25): Iranian Hostage Rescue "Desert One" or "Operation Eagle Claw" 1980-1988: First Persian Gulf War - The U.S. gave logistical and intelligence information to Iraq in its war against Iran. 1981, 1986: U.S. Libya Conflict 1982-1984: U.S. Intervention in Lebanon - US versus Syria & Various Muslim and Leftist Lebanese Militias 1983: U.S. Invasion of Grenada 1987-1988: The Tanker War a
Re: New flight rules
> Jeezus guys, get a clue. You can't pull the same stunt twice, whether
> its a 'normal' hijacking
> which turns out to be different (so much for passenger compliance..), or
> the latest social-engineering virus trick. The rubes *do* learn.
This is the end of "normal hijacking". They spoiled it for everyone.
The first thing a "normal hijacker" has to do now is convince everyone that he
is ... normal. I am not aware of any protocol that would ensure this.
[ Maybe island states should offer their airports as receiving points for
normal hijacking, for a fee that is. And hijacking can happen only on
designated route portions, from which the plane can be diverted to a
pre-defined NHTP (normal hijacking termination point) or it will be destroyed.
Entering and leaving these segments will be announced over the aircraft's PA
("This is the first opportunity to normally hijack the aircraft. Please be
advised that you have exactly 17 minutes to do so. If you have any questions
our staff will be glad to assist you.") NHTPs will be filed with every flight
plan and approved in advance. ]
=
end
(of original message)
Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows:
__
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
MARTIAL LAW Cypherpunks and terrorism
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Len Sassaman wrote: > I'll inevitably be accused of being cowardly or selfish for switching my > system over to middleman mode. To the cypherpunks making those > accusations, I ask: Do you run a remailer? your showing a level of concern which is understandable. but what i see is a simple fact. people are afraid of their governments - and we all know governments are run by monsters these days and few people will stand up to monsters. i do however find it very entertaining to watch US politicians speak on the issue. your political infrastructure is out of control and as a result anything significant can happen as a response to this unfortunate act. martial law is a definate possibility if this happens again. now the world is a very bad place. one thing i find insulting from all the newscasts is us politicians claiming that freedom and democracy have enemies - which is the ongoing retoric. the real question is why did this happen. or another question is why were their celebrations on the streets of china and most of the arab world. i don't think the people on those plains were enemies of freedom or democracy. people who have freedom, liberty, and democracy do not have to resort to suicide missions to get attention. people who resort to these methods have lost hope and have no other means of addressing thier concerns. according to the fbi there were 12 to 24 people in all involved. in my opinion they were lost soals who appointed themselves judge, jury and executioners. these people yesturday delivered a verdict - which in all amounted to the execution of 50,000 people. now that we know the verdict the only outstand question is what were the charges? why did these people do this? what was their motivation? so far i have not figured that one out. sure arabs are dancing in the street - their happy - poor arafat was doing penance today by giving blood. and i understand the japanese red army is also being blamed for this. but all these claims so far amount to little frills here and their to enhance the show. i have yet to receive a clear explaination on what drove these people to do this tragedy. regards joe -- The dot.GOD Registry, Limited http://www.dot-god.com/
Re: The 4th Airliner Shot Down?
At 11:29 PM 9/11/01 -0700, John Young wrote: > >We know from the Egypt air crash that some pilots are >cooperatively suicidal when their families are at risk. Lucky John, who has never known the depths which might lead men to suicide, expecting no martyrdom or message, just relief. May your struts never fold, your ties never sever.
WIN $1000 spending money! 26548
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RE: Manhattan Mid-Afternoon
At 08:08 PM 9/11/01 -0700, Lucky Green wrote about arming citizens & plane travellers. Would regular ammo trash the plane? Would you have to ask passengers to load up with nylon or frangible ammo for the plane trip? [In _Unintended Consequences_ nylon bullets are used for extreme nonpenetration purposes.]
RE: Manhattan Mid-Afternoon
At 12:33 AM 9/12/01 -0400, Sunder wrote: >I'd still fucking rush them if I had been there. If anything it would >wake everyone else up to do the same. No, you *wouldn't* have *before* ---you'd expect to land and hang out for a while. Rather exotic for an American, but it happens. But now, of course, there'd be fucking entrails on the windows if a few swarthies pulled that now in a plane full of Quaker girl scouts. Nuke Yemen but don't treat Palestinian arabs like American Indians...
RE: Manhattan Mid-Afternoon
Peter Trei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Bill Stewart[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote >> And even then, Swedish president Palme was assassinated some years >> ago. [...] > He was far from merely a Swedish president. Quite true. He was Swedish prime-minister, there is no president in _Kingdom_ of Sweden. But I do agree with you in that what happened to Palme is more accurately characterized as an assassination, not as a terrorist act. Suonpää...
FOXNews.com - Dump Tenet (CIA Director) Movement Underway
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,34293,00.html -- -- natsugusa ya...tsuwamonodomo ga...yume no ato summer grass...those mighty warriors'...dream-tracks Matsuo Basho The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::>/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
New FAA measures likely to fail as well
[My wife worked for one of the major airlines for several years. The following is from conversations we had regarding airport security.] Knives The knife ban won't work against anyone with even a smidgen of metal detector knowledge. Anyone can purchase a razor sharp ceramic knife like this one http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:Rd6ExOvaDz8:www.smarthome.com/9126.html+ceramic+knife&hl=en Without millimeter wave body scanners enforcing this one will be difficult. Even advanced scanners may not detect objects secreted between butt cheeks or on the inside of thighs (especially if legs are fat or held together closely.) Guns Airline personnel will allow law enforcement agents, with proper forms, which are easily obtained, to board a flight with their firearms. Available fake badges, laminators and photo quality printers on home PCs allow anyone with the interest, law LE demeanor and general appearance to pose as a Fed. My wife raised concerns to her management that the gate people responsible for determining if a passenger claiming to be a LE agent was in fact an agent had no training to determine the authenticity of their credential. (Her supervisors listened, smiled and did nothing.) An FBI agent explained to her what she should look for in examining a bona fide FBI ID, but there are too many agencies accorded this privilege to make any simple training possible. A centralized data base, with authentication capability by gate agents, of LE personnel allowed to carry firearms aboard U.S. domestic routes is needed. Crew IDs Both uniforms and IDs have been forged in the past and in at least one case used for a hijacking. Authentication can and should be improved. Expectations The people entrusted with maintaining a safe air travel environment are minimum or low wage people with little training. Israel airline and security personnel are much better paid and well trained (days or weeks vs. hours in the U.S.) Isn't our safety worth more than minimum wage? steve
