Re: Condit's false testimony to cops
At 10:04 PM -0400 7/9/01, Declan McCullagh wrote: >On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 08:56:12PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >> Congresscritters and other political vermin are most assuredly "special >> objects". Is there *anyone* who has not realized this yet? > >Right. It was former AG Thornburgh who noted on a talk show yesterday >that the cops still hadn't searched the 'critter's home (see mccullagh.org >for photos, natch). Standard procedure in any other investigation, >he said. Had Condit been an unemployed chemist living with his parents in Vancouver, Washington, his house would have been raided by ninjas and his house tossed. But Condit is not that shlub. Instead, 10 weeks after being the obvious suspect in a missing person case (*), Condit has had plenty of time to sanitize his place. And to let time cause the trail to go cold. (* Most missing persons cases involving adults are cases where the adult has vanished because he or she does not want to be found. Or because they took off to Atlantic City without telling others. This case is quite different. Chandra Levy is almost certainly rotting in a grave out past Winchester. Whether Condit did it, or his angry wife did it, or he hired a hitter to do it is unclear at this time, but the "hands off" treatment he has gotten is in shocking contrast to the dawn raids delivered to Bell. And so it goes.) --Tim May -- Timothy C. May [EMAIL PROTECTED]Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
You Won The First Round! claim# 6254 26722
You Have Won The First Round! Claim Your Entry Now! Collect The Prize Of The Week! Click Here To Collect! We apologize for any email you may have inadvertently received. Please CLICK HERE to be removed from future mailings.
Re: Condit's false testimony to cops
At 9:12 PM -0500 7/9/01, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote: > >> > Congresscritters and other political vermin are most assuredly "special >> > objects". Is there *anyone* who has not realized this yet? >> >> Right. It was former AG Thornburgh who noted on a talk show yesterday >> that the cops still hadn't searched the 'critter's home (see mccullagh.org >> for photos, natch). Standard procedure in any other investigation, >> he said. >> >> -Declan > >I'm sure the locals aren't looking forward to pissing off one of their >potential "agents of funding" on something as inconsequential as a simple >bimbo killing... You've got that right. Washington is worried about the chains and concrete blocks around Chandra's ankles not being enough to keep her down. The bloated bureaucracy fears the bloated body of another bimbo floating to the surface. A bimbo eruption, as it were. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May [EMAIL PROTECTED]Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
Re: Condit's false testimony to cops
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: # #I'm sure the locals aren't looking forward to pissing off one #of their potential "agents of funding" on something as #inconsequential as a simple bimbo killing... Yes, that's a factoid not to be dismissed. Today on the news it was clearly stated that the DC police answer to their funders and bosses: Congress. Congress owns the DC police. Only now are Republicans are starting to talk negatively about Condit... Tim May wrote: # #Whether Condit did it, or his angry wife did it, His wife is suffering from encephalitis. Tim May wrote: # #Washington is worried about the chains and concrete blocks around #Chandra's ankles not being enough to keep her down. The bloated #bureaucracy fears the bloated body of another bimbo floating #to the surface. # #A bimbo eruption, as it were. Heh-heh-heh.
Re: Meatspace anonymity manual
>On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, A. Melon wrote: > >>They've got a good idea -- one of the tactics used by cops for quite >>awhile is to have undercover agents in the crowd who spot the *real* >>troublemakers, leaders, etc. and then often an "affinity squad" will >>target that individual. By making it very difficult to differentiate any >>individuals, that whole cop tactic becomes useless. > >So there will be joint prosecutions, with each of the Bloc-ers receiving >indictments for *all* of the "operations" performed. I also think such >aggressive demonstrations will make the police even more trigger-happy than >they are now. They have probably discussed this, and are willing to deal with it. After all, given the state of the American Press, this would be P.R. Suicide for the Police. >>The other part of the bloc is that by staying together in a tight group, >>they can grab arrestees from the cops more easily. We used to have groups >>of two or three who worked together this way, more is better. > >The only logical conclusion I can see to skirmishes between black-clad >anarchists, going on "street operations", and governmental riot control >forces, is that the police are eventually given the right to just gun the >protestors down, irregardless of whether they have *done* anything. Unless Maybe in Finland, but here in the US, the government official that gave the orders to shoot a crowd of protestors would *not* be working much longer. -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense.
Save 60%-80% Inkjets-Laser Cartridges Fax Supplies Manufacture Direct
Buy direct from manufacturing, and cut out the middle man. SAVE 60%-80% on the items you use everyday! TonerBuys.com blasts the "superstores" and all " internet sites" on all Inkjets, Laser Cartridges, and fax supplies. Epson & Canon Inkjets starting at $1.99 Hewlett Packard Inkjets starting at $13.35. Hewlett Packard laser Cartridges starting at $21.00 . We carry all major brands, HP, Canon, Epson, Brother, Lexmark, etc. Check out www.TonerBuys.com and stop throwing your money away. Every product is 100% guaranteed. Sincerely, TonerBuys.com Quality Is Our Guarantee ***CURRENT SPECIAL COUPON CODE "AZRYAN" FOR FREE SHIPPING ON ORDERS OVER $125.00*** This message is intended to benefit the recipient! If you would like to be removed from this list Please let us know by emailing us at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: You ARE the weakest link. Good-bye!
>>The progression was reasonably simple, as I recall. >> >>First, the people are conditioned to accept "harsh reality", survival >> of the fittest, etc. > >Teaching people this fact might do wonders for getting ten million >leeches off the welfare rolls and state subsidy scams, so I applaud >it. No argument there. But: >>Third, some class of people are identified as being "inferior" and >> pseudoscience upholding the claim is advanced. > >The dull are just that, dull. Not pseudoscience, but fact. That depends on how characteristics one uses to classify people. If it is on the basis of "Dullness" (mental or otherwise), then it is not pseudoscience. If one were, however, to classify all gun owners as ignorant rednecks, white supremacists or gang bangers based on a "fully scientific study" carried out under the auspices of the Southern Poverty Law Center, and that these individuals needed re-education in order to be fully reintegrated into modern society, would you say the same thing? -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense.
Re: Find Waldo now!
>In adopting the black outfit the Black Bloc has made themselves easier >to single out. > >What about doing something a little more sophisticated like, say, >everyone wears jeans and sneakers and rolls a die to choose : > >Baseball cap, bandana, t-shirt color. > >Limit the garb to a small set of colors. red white blue green yellow >black (1) Black is the "traditional" color of the Anarchists. (2) Black has societal connotations that none of those do. (3) Black (or any really dark green/brown/blue) has other properties like making the wearer look a little thinner, causeing some slight shifts in color perception etc. It is also harder to tell different tints and shades of black apart, while if you said "Where a red shirt", there will be 37 different shades of red. (3) The point is not to be anonymous from the crowd around you, but to be anonymous within the group. These people aren't worried about post-analysis of the images, they don't think that far ahead. If they did, they wouldn't be that kind of anarchist (which I am assuming is basically some variant on anarcho-syndicalism). >Want to intimidate? An entire crowd chanting some 3-word slogan in >unison is probably as scary as the black outfit. Want to *really* intimidate? Hack the police's CnC network. >Let's see observers identify the presence or location of the group, >assign membership to a particular person or track a subgroup through a >crowd. Who's going to get three colors correct during a pursuit when >those colors can be lost or changed on the fly? The goal is not to be part of the crowd during a protest, but to be able to accomplish specific actions with a reduced likelyhood of arrest. Given adequite warning, and the proper training it wouldn't be hard for police to cut this group out of the herd and arrest all of them. As another poster mentioned, RICO could probably be brought to bear on them. >A single color is not so anonymous. -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense.
Re: Dropping out of the USA
At 7:19 PM +0100 7/6/01, Ken Brown wrote: >"A. Melon" wrote: ... >> 'political crimes', it seems the best options are to simply leave the >> country altogether or forget about the personal freedoms granted by the >> constitution. > >> So my question is: where to go? > >> How does one >> 'drop out' of the US and keep all the good things one has become >> accustomed to? > >Maybe by being very rich and in effect living in a fortress? > >Or by making do with less money. There seem to be two basic approaches: 1. Obscurity. Don't rock the boat. Hide assets (judgement-proofing). Don't become a visible target. 2. Active Defense. Hire lawyers. Protect assets (judgement-proofing). I believe the "living in a fortress" solution falls into the second category. However, it's not very effective. Lawsuits cross property lines very easily...ask Dennis Rodman, Donald Trump, etc. Likewise, Waco showed that if law enforcement decides to make an example out of someone or some group (over fairly trivial charges, never even really proved), even a fortress compound will not help. In fact, any such fortress brings in more firepower, and charges of "barricading." The first approach is favored by some. It has drawbacks. Only "A. Melon" knows what his or her situation is, so advice is not possible. I will say that there is no country out there that seems to be beyond the reach of U.S. law enforcement, pace the points we discuss so often about drug warriors, freezing of accounts, extradition, etc. Even Yugoslavia has just bowed to U.S. financing pressures (sending Milosevic to the Hague for a show trial). While I've never been to Anguilla, any hope that it is some kind of libertarian paradise has always been nonsensical. (I said this half a dozen years ago, of course, upon hearing the list of banned items, including "Playboy," and about the rule by the "seven families.") I used to live near Monaco as a kid, and have been back a couple of times. A police state, in the sense that residents are surveilled by cameras mounted in public places. What Stephenson would call a "burbclave," except heavily urbanized. The residents don't mind being taped and scrutinized--cuts way down on street crime. But not a place for one of a dissident outlook. Residency (and tax advantages) does not come easy, and people like us need not apply. And so it goes. I have no plans to leave. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May [EMAIL PROTECTED]Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
rent seeking behavior -the final frontier
Tuesday July 10 10:11 AM EDT L.A. County Targets Satellites in Out-of-This-World Tax Plan By NANCY VOGEL, TIMES STAFF WRITER SACRAMENTO -- Los Angeles County officials, realizing that there is no tax collector in outer space, hope to fill the void. Reaching 22,300 miles above the equator, boldly going where no tax collector has gone before, Los Angeles County Assessor Rick Auerbach is angling to impose property taxes on several satellites. Though never done before in California, the move is legal, say state and county tax attorneys. That's because, they say, nobody else is taxing the satellites and they are valuable property owned by a Los Angeles County-based company. Worth as much as $100 million each to Hughes Electronics in El Segundo, the satellites could bring in millions of dollars a year in taxes to schools and government. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/latimes/20010710/lo/l_a_county_targets_satellites_in_out-of-this-world_tax_plan_1.html
Re: Pigs Drive Man to Suicide and Steal His Estate
On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 10:14:11AM -0700, Eric Cordian wrote: >... > Robert Vorbeck, 38, was arrested July 2, 1999, for allegedly selling > cocaine to undercover officers, and committed suicide in his county jail > cell 11 days later. He had faced life in prison if convicted of felony > drug charges. Heh. Probably the dope just wasn't good enough for the cops.
Re: rent seeking behavior -the final frontier
Dynamite Bob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Los Angeles County Assessor Rick Auerbach is angling to impose > property taxes on several satellites. A friend of mine would be willing to pay $15000 to anyone who could accurately predict the day of Mr. Auerbach's demise. Oh, wait. No digital cash, no AP. No anonymity, no AP. Damnit. (To LEOs reading this: this is a _joke_. It is supposed to be a tounge-in-cheek reference to a paper with which I am certain you are familiar---well, unless you are the damn troll who keeps posting "HoW D0 I m@k3 Bomb" messages, in which case, I don't expect you to have any clue at all. In any case, if I had $15000, I'd be paying bills right now.) -- Riad Wahby [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIT VI-2/A 2002 5105
lawyer physics (was taxing satellites)
Get a load of this lawyer's physics: "The property in question here is geostationary," said Larry Hoenig, a San Francisco attorney representing Hughes Electronics. "Geostationary satellites sit above the equator in a fixed position; they do not rotate around the Earth. So the satellites we're talking about here are not movable property." http://www.latimes.com/news/local/state/la-56553jul10.story?coll=la%2Dnews%2Dstate
Re: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites)
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Dynamite Bob wrote: >"The property in question here is geostationary," >said Larry Hoenig, a San Francisco attorney >representing Hughes Electronics. "Geostationary >satellites sit above the equator in a fixed >position; they do not rotate around the Earth. So >the satellites we're talking about here are not >movable property." Since the equator does not pass through California, it follows that any property hanging above a point on the equator is NOT within the borders of California -- no matter how far up you extend them. So I doubt the claim of jurisdiction. Hmmm. Maybe their theory is that because it's not within another nation's border, property owned by US citizens is subject to American Taxes. That would be bad. Or maybe they're attempting to establish a doctrine that Americans can be charged property tax on property they hold outside the borders of the US regardless of whether it's in the borders of another country. That would be worse. At the very least it would provide substantial disincentive to retaining American citizenship. Now, if Sri Lanka wanted to charge property taxes for some prime orbital real estate, it might be able to make a better case -- it actually *has* prime orbital real estate. Bear
Re: Meatspace anonymity manual
> On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Faustine wrote: > >> Frankly, I don't see how any kind of "short-term tactic for possibly >> illegal operations on the street in an environment full of police" >> could be good for anything more than the symbolic. What did these > > Frankly, I think you're missing the point. > >> "illegal operations" really accomplish apart from getting out a > > The point of the bloc noir attire is to attempt establishing anonymity > in meatspace. Sure, but to what end? It's hardly an irrelevant question... >This is the issue we're discussing, and it's strictly > orthogonal to protester's other agenda. Fine. So how much anonymity do you anticipate having after the feds squirt a little of some new "nonlethal" substance straight down the middle of the thing and your vinegar hankies just aren't up to it? Go ahead, rack yourselves up like billiard balls for them--I'm sure they'll appreciate how much easier it is cleaning up the sticky foam afterwards. Speaking of which, here's a great quote about "nonlethals" from an awesome (and frightening) book on urban operations, "The City's Many Faces" by Russell W. Glenn, quoting someone from LASD: "When I was in Somalia we had issues with foams, particularly sticky foam. I recall a conversation with our staff Judge Advocate that went something like this: "Gunner, what happens if you shoot someone in the face?" I said, "Sir?" He says, "Will it stick their lips shut?" I replied "yes Sir, it'll stick their lips shut." He says, "Well, they'll die." I said "yes Sir, and that's why *we* dont call it nonlethal."" So much for that. The other emerging crowd control technologies might make you reconsider, too. Worth a look!! And think of what a person really needs to be fully prepared to go into a riot situation--you'd be outfitted and equipped just like a fed. That's a clue for you right there. Of course, I guess you could always spraypaint your class IV body armor, locking plates, aramid fiber helmets etc. etc. pink or something. Or green. Now *that* would be a turtle suit worth talking about. But since nobody thinks its worth explaining why the bloc noir is more than symbolic, I guess it's a moot point. And IMHO the best way to achieve anonymity in meatspace? A great place to start would be by not deliberately engaging in "possibly illegal operations on the street in an environment full of police". You're doomed before you ever get started. But I could be wrong. Don't say I didn't tell you so. Something to think about... ~Faustine.
RE: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites)
"Dynamite Bob" wrote: > Get a load of this lawyer's physics: > > "Geostationary satellites sit above > the equator in a fixed position; > they do not rotate around the Earth. Maybe he was making a very sophisticated argument about "frame of reference" (or maybe not). :-D S a n d y So the traffic cop pulls Albert Einstein over for speeding. "Do you know how fast you were going back there, buddy?" the cop asks. Albert looks quizzical and responds, "In what reference frame, officer?"
RE: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites)
Ray Dillinger wrote: > Now, if Sri Lanka wanted to charge > property taxes for some prime > orbital real estate, it might be > able to make a better case -- it > actually *has* prime orbital real > estate. Only in Arthur C. Clarks science fiction. The equator does not cross Sri Lanka. Now Ecuador (duh)... S a n d y
RE: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites)
> -- > From: Ray Dillinger[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 2:36 PM > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites) > > > > On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Dynamite Bob wrote: > > >"The property in question here is geostationary," > >said Larry Hoenig, a San Francisco attorney > >representing Hughes Electronics. "Geostationary > >satellites sit above the equator in a fixed > >position; they do not rotate around the Earth. So > >the satellites we're talking about here are not > >movable property." > Actually, there's a curious legal precedent which might help the satellite holders. One of the NASA probes (perhaps the atmospheric probe to Jupiter? Did we have a Venus probe?) had an instrument window made of diamond. The fairly large diamond used drew considerable import duty when it was brought into the US, but that duty was returned after the launch, since the diamond had been 're-exported'. This seems to my IANAL logic to set a precedent that an asset in space is not in the US. > Since the equator does not pass through California, it > follows that any property hanging above a point on the > equator is NOT within the borders of California -- no > matter how far up you extend them. So I doubt the > claim of jurisdiction. Hmmm. Maybe their theory is that > because it's not within another nation's border, property > owned by US citizens is subject to American Taxes. That > would be bad. > > Or maybe they're attempting to establish a doctrine that > Americans can be charged property tax on property they > hold outside the borders of the US regardless of whether > it's in the borders of another country. That would be > worse. At the very least it would provide substantial > disincentive to retaining American citizenship. [...] > Bear > Actually, the USG doesn't give a damn whether it's in the US, in another country , or neither. If they want to, they'll tax it. Expatriate US citizens have to pay income tax on foreign earned income to the US (I think only the US, Egypt, and the Phillipines do this). Even if you give up your US citizenship, the IRS expects to tax you for a further 10 years if your net worth is over $350k when you vacate your US citizenship. If you don't pay up, they might not be able to extradite you if you're now a foreigner, but they'll go after your assets in the US, or arrest you if you set foot on US soil. (13 years as an expatriate leads to some specialized knowledge :-) Peter Trei
Satellite taxes
Um, wouldn't a natural way to assess property taxes be to first decide in which jurisdiction the property rests? For instance project the boundary of jurisdictions into space from the geometrical center of the earth. In which case it would probably be Brazil that should be collecting the taxes and Hughes would be writing off the taxes as a cost thereby reducing the taxes collected in California. Look for the locations over international waters to get crowded. And what about the surveillance satellites or Russian television satellites with polar orbits? Should we set up manned toll booths to exact a fee and do the agricultural inspection as they pass the projected borders? Or should we say that the jurisdiction is that from which the property was launched? BTW where do they launch these things from? Just another useless publicity hound. I hope the idea gets permanently mired in the courts.
RE: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites)
> -- > From: Ray Dillinger[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 2:36 PM > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites) > > > > On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Dynamite Bob wrote: > > >"The property in question here is geostationary," > >said Larry Hoenig, a San Francisco attorney > >representing Hughes Electronics. "Geostationary > >satellites sit above the equator in a fixed > >position; they do not rotate around the Earth. So > >the satellites we're talking about here are not > >movable property." > Actually, there's a curious legal precedent which might help the satellite holders. One of the NASA probes (perhaps the atmospheric probe to Jupiter? Did we have a Venus probe?) had an instrument window made of diamond. The fairly large diamond used drew considerable import duty when it was brought into the US, but that duty was returned after the launch, since the diamond had been 're-exported'. This seems to my IANAL logic to set a precedent that an asset in space is not in the US. > Since the equator does not pass through California, it > follows that any property hanging above a point on the > equator is NOT within the borders of California -- no > matter how far up you extend them. So I doubt the > claim of jurisdiction. Hmmm. Maybe their theory is that > because it's not within another nation's border, property > owned by US citizens is subject to American Taxes. That > would be bad. > > Or maybe they're attempting to establish a doctrine that > Americans can be charged property tax on property they > hold outside the borders of the US regardless of whether > it's in the borders of another country. That would be > worse. At the very least it would provide substantial > disincentive to retaining American citizenship. [...] > Bear > Actually, the USG doesn't give a damn whether it's in the US, in another country , or neither. If they want to, they'll tax it. Expatriate US citizens have to pay income tax on foreign earned income to the US (I think only the US, Egypt, and the Phillipines do this). Even if you give up your US citizenship, the IRS expects to tax you for a further 10 years if your net worth is over $350k when you vacate your US citizenship. If you don't pay up, they might not be able to extradite you if you're now a foreigner, but they'll go after your assets in the US, or arrest you if you set foot on US soil. (13 years as an expatriate leads to some specialized knowledge :-) Peter Trei
Re: Meatspace anonymity manual
On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 02:30:42PM -0400, Faustine wrote: > Fine. So how much anonymity do you anticipate having after the feds squirt > a little of some new "nonlethal" substance straight down the middle of the > thing and your vinegar hankies just aren't up to it? Go ahead, rack Right. That's the problem with the Black Blockian protests: They're using 1960s technology against 2001 police arsenals. -Declan
RE: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites)
> -- > From: Trei, Peter > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 3:05 PM > To: 'Ray Dillinger' > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites) > > > > > -- > > From: Ray Dillinger[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 2:36 PM > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject:Re: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites) > > > > > > > > On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Dynamite Bob wrote: > > > > >"The property in question here is geostationary," > > >said Larry Hoenig, a San Francisco attorney > > >representing Hughes Electronics. "Geostationary > > >satellites sit above the equator in a fixed > > >position; they do not rotate around the Earth. So > > >the satellites we're talking about here are not > > >movable property." > > > Actually, there's a curious legal precedent which might > help the satellite holders. One of the NASA probes (perhaps > the atmospheric probe to Jupiter? Did we have a Venus probe?) > had an instrument window made of diamond. The fairly large > diamond used drew considerable import duty when it was > brought into the US, but that duty was returned after the > launch, since the diamond had been 're-exported'. This > seems to my IANAL logic to set a precedent that an > asset in space is not in the US. > ...you can find anything on the net if you choose to look This was the Pionner Venus Orbiter, built by Hughes and launched in 1978. http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/diamond.txt - FROM: "Dr. Mark W. Lund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> SUBJECT: Re: Who makes big diamond windows? DATE: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:11:44 -0600 ORGANIZATION: MOXTEK, Inc. NEWSGROUPS: sci.optics Nelson Wallace wrote: > "Big" meaning around 1 inch diameter, say 0.1" thick. > Regards, Nelson Wallace Wow, you TRW-government-contracting-no-holds-barred- success-at-any-cost-if-you-have-to-ask-you-can't-afford-it guys have all the fun. Hughes Aircraft bought the diamond window on the Venus probe nephelometer from DeBeers. I remember that it was suggested to the principle investigator that he could save a lot of money if he used two smaller windows, but he was worried that they might not be the same temperature, so he splurged. I also remember that when the probe landed on Venus the US Customs people refunded the customs duty, since the diamond had been re-exported.
RE: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites)
> -- > From: Trei, Peter > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 3:05 PM > To: 'Ray Dillinger' > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites) > > > > > -- > > From: Ray Dillinger[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 2:36 PM > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject:Re: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites) > > > > > > > > On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Dynamite Bob wrote: > > > > >"The property in question here is geostationary," > > >said Larry Hoenig, a San Francisco attorney > > >representing Hughes Electronics. "Geostationary > > >satellites sit above the equator in a fixed > > >position; they do not rotate around the Earth. So > > >the satellites we're talking about here are not > > >movable property." > > > Actually, there's a curious legal precedent which might > help the satellite holders. One of the NASA probes (perhaps > the atmospheric probe to Jupiter? Did we have a Venus probe?) > had an instrument window made of diamond. The fairly large > diamond used drew considerable import duty when it was > brought into the US, but that duty was returned after the > launch, since the diamond had been 're-exported'. This > seems to my IANAL logic to set a precedent that an > asset in space is not in the US. > ...you can find anything on the net if you choose to look This was the Pionner Venus Orbiter, built by Hughes and launched in 1978. http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/diamond.txt - FROM: "Dr. Mark W. Lund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> SUBJECT: Re: Who makes big diamond windows? DATE: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:11:44 -0600 ORGANIZATION: MOXTEK, Inc. NEWSGROUPS: sci.optics Nelson Wallace wrote: > "Big" meaning around 1 inch diameter, say 0.1" thick. > Regards, Nelson Wallace Wow, you TRW-government-contracting-no-holds-barred- success-at-any-cost-if-you-have-to-ask-you-can't-afford-it guys have all the fun. Hughes Aircraft bought the diamond window on the Venus probe nephelometer from DeBeers. I remember that it was suggested to the principle investigator that he could save a lot of money if he used two smaller windows, but he was worried that they might not be the same temperature, so he splurged. I also remember that when the probe landed on Venus the US Customs people refunded the customs duty, since the diamond had been re-exported.
RE: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites)
you know one of the things i'd like to do is go into the waste removal business in orbit. lots of junk up there...would like to launch a satellite with a long finger attached to it and poke stuff out of orbit. the "nudge". who'd pay? it would be quite an unfornate event if a satellite were mistaken as a piece of debris...or if debris suddenly appeared in a launch window ;) phillip > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trei, Peter > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 3:24 PM > To: 'Ray Dillinger' > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites) > > > > > -- > > From: Trei, Peter > > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 3:05 PM > > To: 'Ray Dillinger' > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject:RE: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites) > > > > > > > > > -- > > > From: Ray Dillinger[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 2:36 PM > > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Re: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites) > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Dynamite Bob wrote: > > > > > > >"The property in question here is geostationary," > > > >said Larry Hoenig, a San Francisco attorney > > > >representing Hughes Electronics. "Geostationary > > > >satellites sit above the equator in a fixed > > > >position; they do not rotate around the Earth. So > > > >the satellites we're talking about here are not > > > >movable property." > > > > > Actually, there's a curious legal precedent which might > > help the satellite holders. One of the NASA probes (perhaps > > the atmospheric probe to Jupiter? Did we have a Venus probe?) > > had an instrument window made of diamond. The fairly large > > diamond used drew considerable import duty when it was > > brought into the US, but that duty was returned after the > > launch, since the diamond had been 're-exported'. This > > seems to my IANAL logic to set a precedent that an > > asset in space is not in the US. > > > ...you can find anything on the net if you choose to look > > This was the Pionner Venus Orbiter, built by Hughes and > launched in 1978. > > > http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/diamond.txt > - > FROM: "Dr. Mark W. Lund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > SUBJECT: Re: Who makes big diamond windows? > DATE: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:11:44 -0600 > ORGANIZATION: MOXTEK, Inc. > NEWSGROUPS: sci.optics > > Nelson Wallace wrote: > > > "Big" meaning around 1 inch diameter, say 0.1" thick. > > Regards, Nelson Wallace > > Wow, you TRW-government-contracting-no-holds-barred- > success-at-any-cost-if-you-have-to-ask-you-can't-afford-it guys > have all the > fun. > > Hughes Aircraft bought the diamond window on the Venus probe > nephelometer from DeBeers. I remember that it was suggested to > the principle investigator that he could save a lot of money if he > used two smaller windows, but he was worried that they might not > be the same temperature, so he splurged. I also remember that when > the probe landed on Venus the US Customs people refunded the > customs duty, since the diamond had been re-exported. > > > >
Re: Meatspace
Faustine FUDed: >And IMHO the best way to achieve anonymity in meatspace? A great place to >start would be by not deliberately engaging in "possibly illegal operations >on the street in an environment full of police". You're doomed before you >ever get started. But I could be wrong. Don't say I didn't tell you so. Bitch, you really are a pig, aren't you? Oh, don't protest, don't be an activist, that's much too dangerous, you don't stand a chance they'll get you, blah, blah, blah. Just a little Tokyo Rose for the cyberage.
Re: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites)
Kalifornica charges property taxes on live-aboard boats which haven't been in their waters or registered in their state for years -- or tries to, on the basis that the owner *used* to live there, even if his current residence if elsewhere. Or so people on the boating lists complain. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
No Subject
I've some friends who have, for a long time, complained about being surveilled, specifically phone tapped and/or house bugged. At first I thought it was just paranoia, but recent events have made me think otherwise. i One thing that happens almost invariably is that when groups meet at their home, the phone will ring, they answer and just hear a click and the phone goes dead. Also quite often the phone company appears and works on the nearest phone box on the street. So I was thinking an infinity transmitter was installed on their phone -- but putting in a new phone should get rid of that, and also, from what I know from years ago, installing an infinity transmitter requires a black bag job on the house. Or does it? Are there any new developments in this area that don't require internal access or work despite buying a new phone? I'm not talking about just wire taps, although that too is likely, but of devices to listen in the house. We borrowed a frequency meter, and went around the house with it, but are unsure how to use it effectively. It doesn't have a signal strength meter, so I'm thinking that if a bug is broad- casting the meter should just stick on that frequency? Any other clues on how to deal with this, other than hiring a professional? These people aren't drug dealers, don't have a lot of money.
[R-2-57866-2192399-2-28-US2-5757089C@xmr3.com: CEA Applauds Appeals Court Ruling in Over-the-Air Reception Devices Case]
- Forwarded message from Consumer Electronics Association -Communications <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - From: Consumer Electronics Association -Communications <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: CEA Applauds Appeals Court Ruling in Over-the-Air Reception Devices Case To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:24:34 -0400 Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FOR RELEASE Contact:Jeff Joseph or Jenny Miller tel: (703) 907-7664 tel: (703) 907-7079 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.CE.org CEA Applauds Appeals Court Ruling in Over-the-Air Reception Devices Case Decision Upholds FCC Order Prohibiting Restrictions on Satellite Dish Placement Arlington, Va., July 10, 2001 - The Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) applauded the U.S. Appeals Court ruling Friday, which upheld Federal Communications Commission (FCC) regulations prohibiting restrictions on certain over-the-air television reception and direct-to-home satellite services. Petitioners in the case, including building owners and managers, had questioned the agency's statutory authority and had objected to the FCC's rules concerning over-the-air reception devices (OTARD) that were promulgated following enactment of the 1996 Telecommunications Act and amended in 1998 to extend to leaseholders. The three District of Columbia appellate court judges decidedly rejected the petitioners' claims, delivering a victory to the FCC. CEA celebrated the decision as a victory for consumers who may install satellite dishes and equipment despite landlord opposition in order to enjoy freely the benefits of digital access and entertainment. "This is a big win for consumers. The 'unambiguously expressed intent of Congress' was clear in Section 207 of the Telecommunications Act of 1996," said CEA President and CEO Gary Shapiro. "The Court has upheld the right of all Americans - including renters - to have access to the latest and best consumer technologies, such as direct-to-home satellite. As the original FCC Order recognized, full participation in the digital revolution shouldn't be conditioned on property ownership." The Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) represents more than 650 U.S. companies involved in the design, development, manufacturing and distribution of audio, video, mobile electronics, wireless and landline communications, information technology, multimedia and accessory products, as well as related services that are sold through consumer channels. Combined, these companies account for more than $70 billion in annual sales. CEA also sponsors and manages the International CES - Your Source for Workstyle and Lifestyle Technology. All profits from CES are reinvested into industry services, including technical training and education, industry promotion, engineering standards development, market research and legislative advocacy. UPCOMING EVENTS DTV Summit - Is Laissez-Faire Fair? July 24, 2001, Washington, DC CEA Fall Conference and Industry Forum October 14-17, 2001, La Quinta CA Digital Car Conference and Exhibition October 16-18, 2001, Detroit, MI 2002 International CES - Your Source for Workstyle and Lifestyle Technology January 8-11, 2002, Las Vegas, NV ### I:\RELEASES\DTV & DTV SUMMIT\FCC.OTARD.doc Consumer Electronics Association -Communications 703-907-7041 Phone - If you would prefer not to receive further messages from this sender: 1. Click on the Reply button. 2. Replace the Subject field with the word REMOVE. 3. Click the Send button. You will receive one additional e-mail message confirming your removal. - End forwarded message -
freq meter vs. spectrum analyzer for sweeping
Some Melon wrote:
> We borrowed a frequency meter, and went around the house with
it, but are unsure how to use it effectively. It doesn't have a
signal strength meter, so I'm thinking that if a bug is broad-
casting the meter should just stick on that frequency?<
You mean frequency counter. It counts the Hertz of the local strongest
signal.
You need a spectrum analyzer, which shows you signal strength vs.
frequency.
And you need to worry about intermittent ('burst') bugs.
And WTF is an 'infinity' transmitter?
Re: Meatspace,
somebody behind a remailer wrote: >And IMHO the best way to achieve anonymity in meatspace? A great place to >start would be by not deliberately engaging in "possibly illegal operations >on the street in an environment full of police". You're doomed before you >ever get started. But I could be wrong. Don't say I didn't tell you so. > Bitch, you really are a pig, aren't you? Oh, don't protest, don't >be an activist, that's much too dangerous, you don't stand a chance >they'll get you, blah, blah, blah. Just a little Tokyo Rose for the >cyberage. Nonsense, that's not what I said at all. I raised some serious issues--and all ad-hominem attacks aside, here are a few more for anyone who feels up for it: Can you see a fundamental difference between activism/protest/resistance that makes a difference and "illegal operations on the street in an environment full of police"? What's the point of putting yourself into a situation where you have no chance of accomplishing anything besides getting arrested(or killed)and making some sort of symbolic statement--that doesn't fundamentally affect a single soul beyond whoever gets their property damaged? Why does pointing out the myriad ways it's possible for unarmed people to get swatted like flies by provoking people with superior gear and training automatically mean one in any way identifies with the swatters? Do you really think being an idealist should preclude you from reasoning like a realist? Who's more likely to make a difference at the WTO: a) someone outside, throwing golf balls at the building b) someone inside, presenting compelling arguments to the assembly and individual delegates Can't you think of a better way to use your skills and talents than "fucking shit up" and getting arrested? Can't you even think of a better way to get across your message? I can, lots of people here can. But then, it could just be you're trying to troll me from behing that anonymous remailer of yours. agent provocateur (azhang provocater): "an agent employed to induce or incite a suspected person or group to commit an incriminating act." If you're not one, it's better than even money that you didn't know that the idea of the agent provocateur was invented by Czarist Russia over 100 years ago to stir the Serbs in the Balkans to a rebellion against the Turks, which Russia could use as a pretext to declare war. But its use was most prominent in combating the Socialists during the Russian Revolution of 1905. The Czars targeted young students for the operation of the "agents provocateurs" because students were deemed more impressionable and emotional. At one point 20 percent of all young Russian students were reported to be paid undercover agents who were to organize anti-government demonstrations and then lead the demonstrators straight into the fire of the Czarist police. Think about it. Given that, if you can't even keep a cool head posting to a message board, then you really ARE doomed. ~Faustine.
Your Membership Exchange
Title: Your Membership Exchange Your Membership Exchange, Issue #427 July 10, 2001 Your place to exchange ideas, ask questions, swap links, and share your skills! __ Removal/Unsubscribe instructions are included at the bottom for members who do not with to receive additional issues of this publication. __ You are a member in at least one of these programs - You should be in them all! BannersGoMLM.com ProfitBanners.com CashPromotions.com MySiteInc.com TimsHomeTownStories.com FreeLinksNetwork.com MyShoppingPlace.com BannerCo-op.com PutPEEL.com PutPEEL.net SELLinternetACCESS.com Be-Your-Own-ISP.com SeventhPower.com __ Today's Special Announcement: $30 of FREE Advertising - Just For Calling! This week only FREE Teleconference for our subscribers ONLY! Learn how www.BannersGoMLM.com can and will provide you with UNLIMITED FREE ADVERTISING - Forever! These conferences always fill up fast so reserve your place today. http://BannersGoMLM.com/freeseminar/ezine Call & meet Michael T. Glaspie, Founder of BannersGoMLM. Learn how to succeed - free - and get a FREE $30 bonus just for calling... http://BannersGoMLM.com/freeseminar/ezine __ >> Q & A QUESTIONS: - How to find free targeted audience? ANSWERS: - Error messages - what can I do? A. Jones: Error messages can happen for lots of reasons >> MEMBER SHOWCASES >> MEMBER *REVIEWS* - Sites to Review: #128 & #129! - Three New Sites to Review! - Site #127 Reviewed! __ >> QUESTIONS & ANSWERS << Do you a burning question about promoting your website, html design, or anything that is hindering your online success? Submit your questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are you net savvy? Have you learned from your own trials and errors and are willing to share your experience? Look over the questions each day, and if you have an answer or can provide help, post your answer to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Be sure to include your signature file so you get credit (and exposure to your site). QUESTIONS: From: webmaster - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: How to find free targeted audience? I have this website which was launched about a year ago. This website features handcrafted products from the wonderful land of Rajasthan and the range and quality of products are not only unique but also very attractive. The problem is that I have been submitting to search engines and FFA, and I average about 15 to 20 hits per day, but this is not translating into business. What I need is targeted email addresses of the wholesalers, importers and those who are interested in such products. Further since I am based in India where remittance of US Dollars are restricted and controlled, it becomes very difficult to rent or buy targeted email lists or directories of relevant importers.I have great faith in the products we carry and am sure that proper exposure to the right audience will result in huge sales and business, but this problem has tied me down. Even though I am marketing incredible products, but in absence of right targeting, it is little use. Can you suggest how to go about it? Looking forward to your positive reply. Thanks! Jay Joshi [EMAIL PROTECTED] ANSWERS: From: Adam Jones - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Error messages can happen for lots of reasons >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Error messages - what can I do? (Issue #424) > --> I keep getting an error 403 & 404 on internet explorer, and I can't get in my hotmail account, and it says that on napster to. Can someone help me? <-- Error messages can happen for lots of reasons, including that you may be connecting too slowly to the web server you are trying to reach. Or, the problem could be with your computer hardware limitations or the version of explorer you are using. You would also need to mention if the problem just started, if you've made any changes to your settings, or if this is an ongoing problem. Give some more details and I might be able to be more specific. Adam Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ >> WEBSITE SHOWCASES << Examine carefully - those with email addresses included WILL trade links with you, you are encouraged to contact them. And, there are many ways to build a successful business. Just look at these successful sites/programs other members are involved in... - CIGARETTES GO $MLM$ FREESamples AND Customer Membership $5 OFF 1st Order, 600+ Varieties from $9.95 per carton! BusOP Seekers - Cigarettes are the ultimate consumable! High customer retention insures a steady residual income http://www.key-list.com/track.cgi/mark2020/w
Re: Meatspace,
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Faustine wrote: > Can you see a fundamental difference between activism/protest/resistance > that makes a difference and "illegal operations on the street in an > environment full of police"? > > What's the point of putting yourself into a situation where you have no > chance of accomplishing anything besides getting arrested(or killed)and > making some sort of symbolic statement--that doesn't fundamentally affect a > single soul beyond whoever gets their property damaged? > > Why does pointing out the myriad ways it's possible for unarmed people to > get swatted like flies by provoking people with superior gear and training > automatically mean one in any way identifies with the swatters? > > Do you really think being an idealist should preclude you from reasoning > like a realist? Ghandi. Womens Sufferage (US). Jim Crow Laws (US). Vietnam. Civil Rights in the 60's. The point being, there are plenty of historical precidence where this sort of behaviour has led directly to the change desired by the protestors against a much better armed and entrenched foe. Highly heirarchial defence mechanisms, such as you tout as invincible, work just fine when faced with that sort of competition. When faced with a more distributed and idealistic confrontation they eventualy fail. The question is not one of tactics, but of spirits. Sun-Tzu should be added to your summer reading list. -- Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::>/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: Meatspace,
On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 06:22:12PM -0400, Faustine wrote: > Who's more likely to make a difference at the WTO: a) someone outside, > throwing golf balls at the building b) someone inside, presenting > compelling arguments to the assembly and individual delegates Of those two choices, probably the former, actually. Delegates won't change their positions based on oratory. Nor, in the case of a U.S. delegate who might actually grok free trade, would we want him to. -Declan
(Seattle Physical Meet) BOUNCE cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com: Header field too long (>1024) (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:49:49 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: BOUNCE [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Header field too long (>1024) >From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue Jul 10 17:49:46 2001 Received: (from cpunks@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01125 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:49:46 -0500 Received: from sirius.infonex.com (sirius.infonex.com [216.34.245.2]) by einstein.ssz.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01103 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:48:50 -0500 Received: (from cpunks@localhost) by sirius.infonex.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06816; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rigel.cyberpass.net (cyberpass.net [216.34.245.6]) by sirius.infonex.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06790 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blount.mail.mindspring.net (blount.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.226]) by rigel.cyberpass.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6B1W2109043 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:32:02 -0700 Received: from codehead (user-uini6pg.dsl.mindspring.com [165.121.27.48]) by blount.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA12840; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:38:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], BitGeek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], Brian Brewer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Bunnybait <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], Computer Cryptology <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Cypherpunks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dennis Glatting <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], "E. Shaun Russell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ethan Ackerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], King County LP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], Leonard Janke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, LPSeattle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Marc V. Ridenour" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], Matt Thomlinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], Metalhead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], Michael Hamilton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], Sandy Sandfort <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Steve Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], William Sheehan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:34:42 -0700 X-Distribution: Moderate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Seattle Cypherpunks, July 14, 2001, Bellevue, WA Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Seattle Cypherpunks July 2001 Physical Meeting Announcement General Info: DATE: Saturday 14 July 2001 TIME: 1 - 5 PM (Pacific Time) LOCATION: Bellevue Public Library, 110th Avenue NE, Bellevue, Meeting Room 4 Agenda "Our agenda is a widely-held secret." As usual, this is an Open Meeting on US Soil, and everyone's invited. The meeting typically is followed by dinner at a nearby restaurant. PRESENTATIONS Robert Leen -- Defense Counsel for James Dalton Bell Mr. Leen served as the court-appointed defense attorney in the recent federal trial of Jim Bell, who was charged in the most recent case with harassment of federal agents. Jim was a former subscriber and occasional contributor to the main cypherpunks list and was somewhat known in libertarian circles in southern Washington State. It's well known that the way that the federal courts are set up is biased toward prosecutors, but Robert Leen faced considerably higher barriers than normal in his defense of Jim Bell. This case gave a glimpse of what happens when cypherpunk philosophies come in contact with government, and has several enlightening lessons in prosecutorial tactics. Robert Leen will discuss the case in general and then will address specific questions from the audience. DIRECTIONS The Bellevue Library is immediately north of downtown Bellevue. Take the "8th St N" exit from 405 and head toward downtown. Turn right at 110th Ave. After approximately 3 blocks, look for the Bellevue Public Library on the left.
Re: Dropping out of the USA
I was thinking online obscurity (nyms, pseudonymous web pages etc) coupled with a low tax jurisdiction like Anguilla wouldn't be one interesting combination. But there are plenty of disadvantages too -- limited amenities - shops, computer parts, the advantages being within reasonable travelling distance of a large western city affords. The inconvenience and cost of travelling from a remote locale such as Anguilla if you do much international travelling to visit family, friends, conferences etc. Apparently there are some tax advantages to residing in some Swiss cantons. But as Tim says there aren't really any jurisdictions which offer significant advantages in physical and financial privacy over general western jurisdictions. Adam
Crypto hardware (fwd)
Please reply to Mr. Crispin. -- Forwarded message -- Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:28:08 -0700 From: Kent Crispin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Crypto hardware A couple of years ago at the RSA conference one of the vendors was exhibiting a tamperproof that would keep a secret key and perform encryptions/signatures using the key. Since the key never left the box, in theory security reduced to physical security around the box. The intended use of the box was as a master for a CA. I thought the vendor was GTE, but I didn't find anything definitive on their site. Does this description trigger any recollection? Are there similar devices on the market from other sources? -- Kent Crispin "Be good, and you will be [EMAIL PROTECTED] lonesome." -- Mark Twain - The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::>/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: Meatspace,
Jim wrote: >Ghandi. Womens Sufferage (US). Jim Crow Laws (US). Vietnam. Civil Rights >in the 60's. >The point being, there are plenty of historical precidence where this sort >of behaviour has led directly to the change desired by the protestors >against a much better armed and entrenched foe. It depends on which sort of behavior you mean--none of these causes believed in violence at all! Back in the day, anarchists used to assasinate people. What came of it? The Sacco and Vanzetti case. Here's an uncomforably familiar bit on that--just fill in new details and it's as contemporary as ever: "The arrest of Sacco and Vanzetti coincided with the period of the most intense political repression in American history, the "Red Scare" 1919-20. The police trap they had fallen into had been set for a comrade of theirs, suspected primarily because he was a foreign-born radical. While neither Sacco nor Vanzetti had any previous criminal record, they were long recognized by the authorities and their communities as anarchist militants who had been extensively involved in labor strikes, political agitation, and antiwar propaganda and who had had several serious confrontations with the law. They were also known to be dedicated supporters of Luigi Galleani's Italian-language journal Cronaca Sovversiva, the most influential anarchist journal in America, feared by the authorities for its militancy and its acceptance of revolutionary violence... During this period the government's acts of repression, often illegal, were met in turn by the anarchists' attempts to incite social revolution, and at times by retaliatory violence; the authorities and Cronaca were pitted against each other in a bitter social struggle just short of open warfare. A former editor of Cronaca was strongly suspected of having blown himself up during an attentat on Attorney General Palmer's home in Washington, D.C. on June 2, 1919, an act that led Congress to vote funds for anti-radical investigations and launch the career of J. Edgar Hoover as the director of the General Intelligence Division in the Department of Justice. The Sacco- Vanzetti case would become one of his first major responsibilities. In 1920, as the Italian anarchist movement was trying to regroup, Andrea Salsedo, a comrade of Sacco and Vanzetti, was detained and, while in custody of the Department of Justice, hurled to his death. On the night of their arrest, authorities found in Sacco's pocket a draft of a handbill for an anarchist meeting that featured Vanzetti as the main speaker. In this treacherous atmosphere, when initial questioning by the police focused on their radical activities and not on the specifics of the Braintree crime, the two men lied in response. These falsehoods created a "consciousness of guilt" in the minds of the authorities, but the implications of that phrase soon became a central issue in the Sacco-Vanzetti case: Did the lies of the two men signify criminal involvement in the Braintree murder and robbery, as the authorities claimed, or did they signify an understandable attempt to conceal their radicalism and protect their friends during a time of national hysteria concerning foreign-born radicals, as their supporters were to claim?" Ouch. There's a real lesson there! Besides, I think a lot of the success of the symbolic protests you mentioned were actually a logical result of what was going on behind the scenes--sure, they protests functioned as a PR-strategic push, but without very intelligent and dedicated people interfacing with the power structure, nothing ever would have happened at all. You remember the people who conceptualized, organized and signed the treaty, not the ones who threw the bombs. Elizabeth Cady Stanton didn't *need* the Pankhursts, if you get my drift. >Highly heirarchial defence mechanisms, such as you tout as invincible, >work just fine when faced with that sort of competition. When faced with a >more distributed and idealistic confrontation they eventualy fail. Maybe, but keep in mind asymmetry and idealism don't always go together. Also, define "idealistic". For instance, Mao appealed to the idealism of his followers, but his tactics were as hardcore as they come. And what happens when a repressive state starts to adopt asymmetric strategies to overcome asymmetric threats? That's the way it's moving, slowly but surely... >The question is not one of tactics, but of spirits. Hm. I still think you need both. >Sun-Tzu should be added to your summer reading list. Yep, it's certainly worth another look. Meanwhile here's a relevant quote of his I do remember: "The worst policy is to attack cities. Attack cities only when there is no alternative." So there you have it... ;) ~Faustine.
Re: Dropping out of the USA
Tim May wrote: > I will say that there is no country out there that seems to be > beyond the reach of U.S. law enforcement, pace the points we discuss > so often about drug warriors, freezing of accounts, extradition, > etc. Even Yugoslavia has just bowed to U.S. financing pressures > (sending Milosevic to the Hague for a show trial). The cost is higher, though, especially the cost of figuring out what you are doing. You are mostly out from under the footprint. For example, it's much more difficult for the Feds to illegally tap your phone in, say, Russia. Also, it will be harder for them to do their thing without tipping you off. The Feds have to use a certain amount of discretion when operating in other countries. When Ames was meeting his Russian handlers in Colombia, the FBI tried to catch him at it, but blew it because they were there illegally and had to exercise caution. Many countries are getting sensitive to violations of their sovereignty by the U.S., so there may be governments which would not cooperate readily, especially if they like your presence for, say, business reasons. Other countries may also not be locked into the same technophobic paranoid hysteria which seems to be gripping the folks in Washington these days. Somebody sending a lot of encrypted mail may seem pretty harmless in a more relaxed part of the world. While it's too bad that there isn't a single Libertarian government out there, other countries may still have uses. Two risky investments is a better deal than one big investment with the same risk.
Re: Dropping out of the USA
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Adam Back wrote: > I was thinking online obscurity (nyms, pseudonymous web pages etc) coupled > with a low tax jurisdiction like Anguilla wouldn't be one interesting > combination. > > But there are plenty of disadvantages too -- limited amenities - shops, > computer parts, the advantages being within reasonable travelling distance > of a large western city affords. The inconvenience and cost of travelling > from a remote locale such as Anguilla if you do much international > travelling to visit family, friends, conferences etc. > > Apparently there are some tax advantages to residing in some Swiss cantons. > > But as Tim says there aren't really any jurisdictions which offer > significant advantages in physical and financial privacy over general > western jurisdictions. I've thought this one out as well. Seems to me the only answer is to keep moving, don't settle in any one country (or store your possessions in any one jurisdiction) for a lengthy stay. A couple of years max. -- Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::>/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: Meatspace,
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Faustine wrote: > Jim wrote: > > >Ghandi. Womens Sufferage (US). Jim Crow Laws (US). Vietnam. Civil Rights > >in the 60's. > >The point being, there are plenty of historical precidence where this sort > >of behaviour has led directly to the change desired by the protestors > >against a much better armed and entrenched foe. > > It depends on which sort of behavior you mean--none of these causes > believed in violence at all! Um, you should review the 60's groups like the SDS and such. And while Ghandi certainly didn't believe in violence the same can't be said for the rest of the Indian freedom movement (not all hailed to Ghandi). As to women sufferage, you need to do some more research there as well, not all women are pascifist. they burned more than bra's... You paint with too broad a brush (typical of the indoctrinating education of the day - going all the way back to when I was a kid in the 60's). > Back in the day, anarchists used to assasinate people. Every ilk assassinates every other ilk if given the oportunity and the personality. > What came of it? The Indians are a free country. You and blacks can vote. The reality is, your example of the 'troops in the street willing to gun 'em down' (a paraphrase) is apt. The only thing stopping them is knowing that the majority of people don't believe it. They still believe in the 'kindly policeman who's there to help you' of their youth. Want to see the other side? Kent State. > The Sacco and Vanzetti case. Here's an > uncomforably familiar bit on that--just fill in new details and it's as > contemporary as ever: One case does not a generalization make. > Ouch. There's a real lesson there! Yeah, you need to study history more. > Besides, I think a lot of the success of the symbolic protests you > mentioned were actually a logical result of what was going on behind the > scenes No shit? That is true of everything You're trying to sit on the fence and at the same time stand on both sides. -- Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Ludwig Wittgenstein The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::>/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
RE: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites)
Peter Trei wrote: > Expatriate US citizens have to pay > income tax on foreign earned income > to the US...If you don't pay up, > they might not be able to extradite > you if you're now a foreigner, but > they'll go after your assets in the > US, or arrest you if you set foot > on US soil. > > (13 years as an expatriate leads to > some specialized knowledge :-) Maybe, but you got part of that wrong. (a) For expatiate US persons, the first $78,000 (or there about; they keep upping the amount) of income is exempt. (b) If you file, but do not pay, they can grab US assets, but they cannot extradite you nor arrest you if you come back, because no crime has been committed. Failure to file is a crime; failure to pay is a civil matter. S a n d y
Re: Dropping out of the USA
At 7:59 PM -0400 7/10/01, Adam Back wrote: >I was thinking online obscurity (nyms, pseudonymous web pages etc) coupled >with a low tax jurisdiction like Anguilla wouldn't be one interesting >combination. > >But there are plenty of disadvantages too -- limited amenities - shops, >computer parts, the advantages being within reasonable travelling distance >of a large western city affords. The inconvenience and cost of travelling >from a remote locale such as Anguilla if you do much international >travelling to visit family, friends, conferences etc. > >Apparently there are some tax advantages to residing in some Swiss cantons. > >But as Tim says there aren't really any jurisdictions which offer >significant advantages in physical and financial privacy over general >western jurisdictions. I wasn't singling out Anguilla, just noting it is hardly a libertarian paradise. Having spent a week in Nassau in 1980, that's a close as I want to come to moving to the Bahamas or places like that. (The sandy beaches were O.K., but not significantly better than here in Carmel--though the water's warm enough to snorkel and scuba dive in. But the crimes by blacks against whites were horrific: living in a walled compound on Paradise Island or on one of the outlying islands was the only hope a white man had.) The "nym" approach to online obscurity is hardly sufficient, Adam. After all, I don't want to face hanging for having a firearm. Or 5 years in the local jail for having a copy of "Penthouse." Or deportation for offending the Seven Families. These little Carribean potentates are far, far, far worse than what we face in the U.S. But enough about Anguilla, Nevis, St. Barts, all of the other little rocks on the Caribbean. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May [EMAIL PROTECTED]Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
Descubra el futuro de la publicidad hoy...
Title: Untitled Document José acaba de ganar muchísimo dinero. Realizó su primer envío de publicidad masiva. ClickyLink.com es publicidad masiva a través de e-mail. Descubra todo lo clickylink tiene para Ud.
Re: Dropping out of the USA
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Jim Choate wrote: >Seems to me the only answer is to keep moving, don't settle in any one >country (or store your possessions in any one jurisdiction) for a lengthy >stay. A couple of years max. Um, no. A couple of years would have been fine a decade ago, but these days if you piss off The People Who Must Not Be Pissed Off, extradition - from anywhere you'd remotely want to be - happens really fast. And getting faster, at least until the US sets off a backlash of sentiment among its current supporters. I guess it depends on what you're up to. If you really want to avoid attracting their attention -- then you're not posting to this list ever again and you're *definitely* not doing anything like Phil Zimmerman and several others we could name did. In short, you abandon cypherpunk ideas to all outward appearances and do not contribute anything to the freedom of our descendants. You just sit there like a nice little shitbag and quiver when they tell you to quiver, and they'll leave you alone. For now. At least until they run out of people who make them more nervous. On the other If you *do* attract their attention, then international travel will make them even more nervous about you -- and we all know (from Bell's case) what happens when Those Who Must Not Be Pissed Off get nervous about a particular person. A Kangaroo trial and a long sentence, natch. Same as anywhere else in the world. I think maybe the most effective path is a middle path; do things that help the situation of everybody, publish good subversive software if your talents run that way, and you'll definitely attract their attention. But as far as you can avoid it, never *frighten* them I guarantee that if Phil Zimmerman had had an impressive collection of guns or a stockpile of chemical reagents in his posession when he released PGP, he would be rotting in jail today and the rest of us wouldn't have PGP, nor its lineal descendants. Basically, you're allowed to piss them off a little, and they still need some kind of excuse to arrest you. But once you've pissed them off, any excuse will do, even (as Bell's case teaches us) the legal exercise of a constitutionally protected right. I think a lot of international travel would be more likely to give them the excuse they need to arrest you, if they were looking for one, than it would do to keep them off your back. And when you go travelling internationally, the opportunities for setups of various types multiply exponentially. What if somebody blackbags your luggage and a pound of dope shows up in turkish customs? Now add in a hefty bribe to the judge in the case and your innocent ass can be sitting in jail in Turkey for decades at no PR cost to the USA. Bear "I used to feel like a flea on the back of a dinosaur -- But lately, I've felt that that may have been a misassessment. Maybe I'm more like a small, yapping poodle on the back of a dinosaur" -- Philip Zimmerman (paraphrased no doubt by my faulty memory)
Re: Dropping out of the USA
At 06:33 PM 7/10/01 -0700, Tim May wrote: >These little Carribean potentates are far, far, far worse than what we >face in the U.S. The sad truth is that if you're a gun owner and like to have variety in what you collect, no "western democracy" is going to be a better fit than the U.S. Even some smaller countries that should know better (or not) are lining up behind the anti-gun nations, as we can see this week at the U.N. summit. >But enough about Anguilla, Nevis, St. Barts, all of the other little rocks >on the Caribbean. Some may be better than others. Bermuda (not truly in the Carribbean) is more British and less strained in terms of race relations. Aruba is also better than others. But even with the problems in modern America, we still have a stronger commitment to what remains of civil liberty. Which may not be saying much. -Declan
Re: Satellite taxes
>Um, wouldn't a natural way to assess property taxes be to first decide >in which jurisdiction the property rests? For instance project the One of the points that L.A. County is using to assess these taxes is that it is property that owned by a (to them) local corporation that *isn't* in a taxable jurisdiction. Not that I think this is anything but a stupid idea. -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense.
Re: Dropping out of the USA
On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 08:50:46PM -0700, Ray Dillinger wrote: > descendants. Basically, you're allowed to piss them off a > little, and they still need some kind of excuse to arrest > you. But once you've pissed them off, any excuse will do, > even (as Bell's case teaches us) the legal exercise of a > constitutionally protected right. At the risk of going against cypherpunkconvntionalwisdom, or what passes for it, I would be wary of using the Bell case as an example of a typical prosecution. First, Bell was so terribly unlikeable as a defendant that it's a wonder that he even got the jury to not convict on all counts. Second, he was loopy, whether for effect or for real, when accusing his attorney of making death threats against him and family. Third, he didn't just spew opinions on a mailing list -- he let all the Feds he could know that he was willing to devote his life to bringing them down. Fourth, there's the home addresses and "Say goodnight to Joshua" thang that put the jury over the edge. This is not to say that his prosecution was justified, that the law he was charged with violating is constitutional, that the Feds acted reasonably, or that his conviction is appropriate. But even among cypherpunks, Bell is an outlier. -Declan
Re: Condit cracks
More Condit! From this evening: http://www.mccullagh.org/image/950-23/gary-condit-chandra-levy-4.html http://www.mccullagh.org/image/950-23/gary-condit-chandra-levy-5.html Hey, it's right around the corner. I can't resist. -Declan On Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 07:58:18PM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: > The truck: > http://www.mccullagh.org/image/950-23/gary-condit-chandra-levy-2.html > > The apartment and media stakeout: > http://www.mccullagh.org/theme/gary-condit-stakeout-july01.html > > The media stakeout is both pathetic and hysterical: Condit has not > been spotted within miles of his apartment in the last few weeks but > they're outside anyway. I chatted with a New York Post photog who was > philosophical when challenged by some passers-by -- he was getting > paid by the hour, he said, and didn't mind the wait. > > Other residents of the apartment building are starting to take > offense; around noon today one started screaming at and physically > threatened some of the reporters, who are now clustered in clumps for > safety. > > -Declan > > > > On Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 02:08:26PM -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > Okay, okay. I haven't been out yet today but will take my digital camera > > and see if I can photonab that blasted van. > > > > -Declan > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 12:30:37PM -0700, John Young wrote: > > > So, Declan, what's the latest Beltway buzz about Levy, as with > > > Lewinsky, working for Mossad, that is, FRU, to suck secrets from > > > Condit and Clinton, if not directly then by extortion when the photos > > > and recordings and confessions are bared to the stiffs. > > > > > > Get the license plate of that surveillance truck. Get the biometrics > > > of its operators. Or spot the ice cream van snarfing the mucker's > > > emissions.
Re: Meatspace,
>Nonsense, that's not what I said at all. I raised some serious issues--and >all ad-hominem attacks aside, here are a few more for anyone who feels up >for it: > >Can you see a fundamental difference between activism/protest/resistance >that makes a difference and "illegal operations on the street in an >environment full of police"? I can, that's why I don't do that stuff any more. (Not that I ever did it much). >What's the point of putting yourself into a situation where you have no >chance of accomplishing anything besides getting arrested(or killed)and >making some sort of symbolic statement--that doesn't fundamentally affect a >single soul beyond whoever gets their property damaged? We live in the Post Modern world where making a symbolic statement is equivalent to actually doing something about the problem. >Do you really think being an idealist should preclude you from reasoning >like a realist? By definition. >Who's more likely to make a difference at the WTO: a) someone outside, >throwing golf balls at the building b) someone inside, presenting >compelling arguments to the assembly and individual delegates (a). Because by the time the delegates meet, it's too late. >Can't you think of a better way to use your skills and talents >than "fucking shit up" and getting arrested? Can't you even think of a >better way to get across your message? I can, lots of people here can. I can think of a better way of using my talents, but then that's why I don't do that shit (Well, that and the fact that while I disagree with what the WTO is doing, I disagree for completely different and incompatible reasons than the "blank bloc"). >If you're not one, it's better than even money that you didn't know that >the idea of the agent provocateur was invented by Czarist Russia over 100 >years ago to stir the Serbs in the Balkans to a rebellion against the I doubt it was invented that recently. >Think about it. Given that, if you can't even keep a cool head posting to a >message board, then you really ARE doomed. Nonsense. There is virtually no risk (especially to someone behind a nym) in reacting hotheadedly on a mailing list (THIS IS NOT A MESSAGE BOARD). There are significant risks in doing it in real life. -- http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent. To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the offense.
RE: lawyer physics (was taxing satellites)
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:05:44 Phillip H. Zakas wrote: > > >you know one of the things i'd like to do is go into the waste removal >business in orbit. lots of junk up there...would like to launch a satellite >with a long finger attached to it and poke stuff out of orbit. the "nudge". >who'd pay? it would be quite an unfornate event if a satellite were >mistaken as a piece of debris...or if debris suddenly appeared in a launch >window ;) > >phillip > There is lots of junk up there. Schemes to de-orbit satellites at the end of their useful life have been put forward but they always fail on the liability issue. Apparently if a satellite falls out of orbit it is an "act of god" and the owner/insurer is not responsible for damages, but if the satellite is deliberately de-orbitted the owner/insurer is on the hook. No one, partiucularly the insurance companies wants to try it. This despite a high degree of confidence in being able to bring a satellite down in a hopefully empty patch of ocean. Insurance companies are very risk averse. Jim Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com
