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Re: Carnivore Probe Mollifies Some
I've been thinking about Carnivore for days. I can't really see the data that it collects/spews forth being anywhere near uncontestable. On Tue, 28 Nov 2000, Tim May wrote: > At 5:48 PM -0500 11/28/00, David Honig wrote: > >At 06:54 AM 11/28/00 -0500, Ken Brown wrote: > >>Of course if they leave the machine [Carnivore] in the cage you can always > >stop > >>feeding it electricity. Or take it home to show the neighbours. It might > >>make a good conversation piece at dinner. Or maybe use it as an ashtray. > > > >>At 10:36 PM 11/27/00 -0500, Tim May wrote: > >>CALEA has some onerous language in it, but it doesn't trump the > >>Fourth Amendment. > > > > > >You could try the Carnivore box against an implemention of your Second > >Amendment rights. Unless the chassis were hardened you'd win. These are probably obvious points but.. Is Carnivore going to be simply a software/OS specification, or all round including hardware? What's to stop the provider being in collusion with whoever's being monitored, and 'unplugging' the UTP whenever sensitive data is being sent out? Worse still, what's to stop spoofed packets/data being injected (by your friendly law officers) into carnivore to incriminate those being monitored. Likewise, is there some sort of protocol to on similar situations (well same ball-park), say voice-wiretaps, that prevents evidence tampering? Is there some sort of specification for this thing, or was the so called research performed on this thing done under complete NDA? > Generally, I hope CALEA/Carnivore gets challenged all the way to the > Supreme Court. I don't see how it holds up in any court. Peter --
Re: Vinge
Tim May wrote: > Well, this is what you get for not reading--or at least not > remembering--list traffic. The forthcoming "True Names" re-issue has > been discussed several times, including mentions in the last few > months by both myself and, IIRC, Bill Stewart. > > Here's what I wrote the last time the "The Ungoverned" was discussed" > > "Vinge just won a second Hugo Best Novel for "A Deepness in the Sky," > so maybe this means the long-delayed re-issue of "True Names" will > finally happen. (Alas, my essay for it was written several years ago, > so is even more out of date. From the instant publishing on the Net > to several years' delay in publishing in pulpspace.)" > Yes, I remember you saying "maybe this means" --- but when? I want to read it now. > > Also, a simple query of Amazon turns up the re-issue of "True Names." > And they also say "March 2001", but given the fact that the print industry is much like the software industry in vaporous publishing dates, who knows when?. Amazon compounds this by advertising all sorts of books, etc. that they don't have in hand. But I'll probably buy the new edition when it comes out. I spend ridiculous amounts of money on books every month anyway. Just went to one of those remaindered book outlets last weekend and bought 6-7 books, then went to Barnes & Noble and bought more. Like I said, I'd really be happy running a used book store. Guess I'm just a book freak. > > --Tim May > -- > (This .sig file has not been significantly changed since 1992. As the > election debacle unfolds, it is time to prepare a new one. Stay tuned.)
Re: Vinge
Bill Stewart wrote: > Of course, if you're in the SF Bay Area and *want* to work in > a used bookstore, there's a local religious cult that runs > a really good one in downtown Mountain View. > Hot Damn! Thanx loads, Bill -- you've just given me a real clue on how I can make a bundle in the book store business. Let's see, I have a degree in religious studies from the UofWI, and long held ordination papers from the Universal Life Church, and ..Hmm, I also own six old offset presses, and have another degree in creative writing, so I can pump out lots of screed. I wonder who I could get to cast some images of Jim Bell hanging on a cross?
Re: Survey meters.
At 09:29 AM 11/29/00 -0500, Ken Brown wrote: >I was 99% sure that these posts were some sort of spam-scam, whose >purpose I didn't quite get. (Am I falling for it by replying?) > >we don't now anything >about scintillation meters (I haven't used one since September). We may or may not know anything about detecting radiation but we are *certainly* amused at clueless Pakis shopping for meters for their government. Think I'll start looking for some KI again.. Or maybe it *was* an appropriate post and the Pakis want to build radiation-based RNGs... yeah, that's the ticket.
Re: Carnivore Probe Mollifies Some
On Tue, Nov 28, 2000 at 11:40:10PM -0500, Tim May wrote: > I want Bush to become President so I can see at least a few years of > another party in power before going ahead and advocating that they Maybe. But there is a substantial law and order wing in the Republican Party led by snoophappy folks like Bill McCollum, who shared the stage with Bush at rallies. That by itself guarantees that at least some GOPers will be pushing for more surveillance than done under Clinton. Further, many of the important day-to-day decisions are left up to mid-level bureaucrats and not all are among the 2,000 or so presidential appointees. Finally, some of the conservative groups that have been most vocal in Carnivore-opposition will not be as eager to criticize a Bush administration. And I can't see liberals at PFAW etc. being quite as aggressive. I should write an article about the above. > ALL be killed and that Weapons of Mass Destruction be used to > eliminate the nest of vipers on the Potomac. Sure you haven't done that already? :) -Declan
Re: Vinge
On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 08:35:22AM -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > Hot Damn! Thanx loads, Bill -- you've just given me a real clue on how > I can make a bundle in the book store business. Let's see, I have a degree > in religious studies from the UofWI, and long held ordination papers from > the Universal Life Church, and ..Hmm, I also own six old offset > presses, and have another degree in creative writing, so I can pump out > lots of screed. I wonder who I could get to cast some images of Jim Bell > hanging on a cross? I've got some high-quality 35mm slide images of Bell if you need 'em. :) www.mccullagh.org -Declan
RE: Jim Bell
Anonymous wrote: > You're assuming an offline cash system with embedded identity. It is > more likely that initial digital cash implementations will be online. And... > Offline cash really can't compete. > Attempting to trace, identify, catch and punish double spenders will > be overwhelmingly more expensive than simply checking directly that the > cash hasn't been spent before. I have to day that I strongly disagree with the above. There are several current offline ecash systems which do not require expensive (or even require at all) systems on checking double spent value. Specifically I am referring to Mondex. While there are several disadvantages to Mondex, and the fact that it is not truly anonymous, it does currently allow secure offline transactions. Regards, Andrew Drapp -- Andrew Drapp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Encrypted Email Preferred (KeyID 65A52F89) * E-mail Confidentiality Notice and Disclaimer This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. Access to this e-mail by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited. E-mail messages are not necessarily secure. Hitachi does not accept responsibility for any changes made to this message after it was sent. Please note that Hitachi checks outgoing e-mail messages for the presence of computer viruses. *
Re: Vinge
At 8:35 AM -0500 11/29/00, Harmon Seaver wrote: >Bill Stewart wrote: > >> Of course, if you're in the SF Bay Area and *want* to work in >> a used bookstore, there's a local religious cult that runs >> a really good one in downtown Mountain View. >> > > Hot Damn! Thanx loads, Bill -- you've just given me a real clue on how >I can make a bundle in the book store business. Let's see, I have a degree >in religious studies from the UofWI, and long held ordination papers from >the Universal Life Church, and ..Hmm, I also own six old offset >presses, and have another degree in creative writing, so I can pump out >lots of screed. I wonder who I could get to cast some images of Jim Bell >hanging on a cross? The rants of C.J. Parker/Toto/Truthmonger might be better to build a cult around. As with Elron, volume counts. Sign up a few movie stars, open some "Circle of Eunuchs" cybercafe clearing centers, and pipe country porn through the PA system. --Tim May -- (This .sig file has not been significantly changed since 1992. As the election debacle unfolds, it is time to prepare a new one. Stay tuned.)
Re: Vinge
At 08:24 AM 11/29/00 -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote: > And they also say "March 2001", but given the fact that the print >industry is much like the software industry in vaporous publishing dates, >who knows when?. Amazon compounds this by advertising all sorts of books, >etc. that they don't have in hand. > But I'll probably buy the new edition when it comes out. I spend >ridiculous amounts of money on books every month anyway. Just went to one of >those remaindered book outlets last weekend and bought 6-7 books, then went >to Barnes & Noble and bought more. >Like I said, I'd really be happy running a used book store. Guess I'm >just a book freak. AddALL, the best OP book meta search engine, lists quite a few copies including some in the $20-$40 range. http://used.addall.com/SuperRare/submitRare.cgi?order=TITLE&ordering=ASC&author=Vinge&title=True+Names&keyword=&submit=Find+the+Book&isbn=&match=Y&dispCurr=USD&binding=Any+Binding&min=&max=&StoreAbebooks=on&StoreAlibris=on&StoreAntiqbook=on&StoreBibliofind=on&StoreBiblion=on&StoreBookCloseOuts=on&StoreBookAvenue=on&StoreGutenberg=on&StoreHalf=on&StoreJustBooks=on&StorePowells=on I got my copy the easy way by buying it in 1984. DCF [1] And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. [3} ... but, my lord the king, are they not all my lord's servants? why then doth my lord require this thing? why will he be a cause of trespass to Israel? [7] And God was displeased with this thing; therefore he smote Israel. 1 Chronicles 21.
Re: Authenticate the "adult field", go to jail...
At 02:41 PM 11/29/00 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >In fact if anything this kind of prosecution is an argument *against* >getting into the ecash/ecredential business, especially if it is focused >on porn as some have proposed. All you need is for someone to use it >to sell or authorize access to kiddie porn, and you're going to jail. > >Obvious. Great way to entrap, too. Switch content, then bang. Some kind of 'common-carrier' protection would be helpful to those providing generic services like credit card validation. If the folks being charged made the case that they didn't know some of the content was 'tainted', they should get off. You'd have to show that they were guilty of thoughtcrime themselves. [This completely avoids the bogosity of the case, given that noone is harmed ---that these are just bits being sent, not people being harmed.]
Arthur Anderson black-bagged, NIPC now spooking
"Arthur Andersen's office in Vilnius has reportedly fallen victim to electronic surveillance operations. Following the discovery of suspicious equiptment in the office, Andersen called on the Lithuanian authorities to open an investigation into what it views as a case of economic espionage. Another firm highly active in the region, J. Kabasinka & Partners, is said to have also been subjected to similar surveillance" Intelligence Newsletter 12 Oct 2000 p3 indigo-net.com [no affil.] Also a notes that FBI now training NIPC in Carnivore use. "Previously the FBI had sworn NIPC was not engaged in law enforcement surveillance." p 5 same issue. Will scan sources for John's library.
Re: Authenticate the "adult field", go to jail...
At 3:57 PM -0500 11/29/00, David Honig wrote: >At 02:41 PM 11/29/00 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>In fact if anything this kind of prosecution is an argument *against* >>getting into the ecash/ecredential business, especially if it is focused >>on porn as some have proposed. All you need is for someone to use it >>to sell or authorize access to kiddie porn, and you're going to jail. >> >>Obvious. > >Great way to entrap, too. Switch content, then bang. > >Some kind of 'common-carrier' protection would be helpful >to those providing generic services like credit card validation. The actual credit card companies have never, that I know of, been implicated in any of the Net porn cases (I don't mean "child porn," I mean the various cases we have heard about over the past dozen years, a la "Amateur Action'). This may say that they have a good team of lawyers and that local DAs like to cherry-pick their cases to go after less well-lawyered targets. Or it may say that there is an element of scienter involved. >If the folks being charged made the case that they didn't know some >of the content was 'tainted', they should get off. You'd have to >show that they were guilty of thoughtcrime themselves. Scienter, i.e., knowledge. On the other hand, "ignorance of the law is no excuse." Note that hotel operators are not held to be co-criminals when their hotel rooms are used for drug-dealing, prostitution (*), planning of crimes, etc. (* Unless the hotel and/or its managers were knowingly involved, as is sometimes the case with hotels. But, still, if a murder or theft or whatever happens in a hotel room, the hotel owner is seldom charged.) There should be similar inkeeper's exemptions for ISPs and payment intermediaries. There are many examples where credit card companies are used in transactions which turn out to be illegal. So? And the issue is not really whether the CC company "knows" what is being bought. If I buy a gun with a CC number, and it turns out this was an illegal transaction, and the CC company clearly knew that a purchase was of a gun, does this implicate them? How about CC numbers being used at flea markets, where a substantial portion of the goods being hawked are stolen? Or pirated (CDs)? The notion of arresting those who act as financial intermediaries should be tested in the courts. --Tim May -- (This .sig file has not been significantly changed since 1992. As the election debacle unfolds, it is time to prepare a new one. Stay tuned.)
Re: Arthur Anderson black-bagged, NIPC now spooking
At 3:57 PM -0500 11/29/00, David Honig wrote: >"Arthur Andersen's office in Vilnius has reportedly >fallen victim to electronic surveillance operations. >Following the discovery of suspicious equiptment in >the office, Andersen called on the Lithuanian authorities >to open an investigation into what it views as a case of >economic espionage. Another firm highly active in the region, >J. Kabasinka & Partners, is said to have also been subjected to similar >surveillance" > >Intelligence Newsletter 12 Oct 2000 p3 indigo-net.com [no affil.] > >Also a notes that FBI now training NIPC in Carnivore use. "Previously >the FBI had sworn NIPC was not engaged in law enforcement surveillance." >p 5 same issue. I don't know what "NIPC" means, but I thought at first you meant that NIPC was in Lithuania. Perhaps not. But the point is still interesting: recall that Louis Freeh and the other spook chiefs were making much about sending teams over to Russia, Ukraine, Georgia, Lithuania, etc. to teach them the essentials of creating a _modern_ police state. No doubt Carnivore is being deployed outside the U.S., and without a _fraction_ of the public discussiong being seen here. (BTW, there is little discussion of the commercial espionage aspects of Carnivore. I know that Intel must be thrilled at the prospect that a Carnivore box attached to some node that their traffic flows through will suck up all of _Intel's_ traffic. With luck, it will convince companies like Intel and Microsoft to much more widely deploy crypto for communications which might be intercepted by Carnivores.) --Tim May -- (This .sig file has not been significantly changed since 1992. As the election debacle unfolds, it is time to prepare a new one. Stay tuned.)
Re: Arthur Anderson black-bagged, NIPC now spooking
At 04:52 PM 11/29/00 -0500, Tim May wrote: >At 3:57 PM -0500 11/29/00, David Honig wrote: >>"Arthur Andersen's office in Vilnius has reportedly >>fallen victim to electronic surveillance operations. >> >>Also a notes that FBI now training NIPC in Carnivore use. "Previously >>the FBI had sworn NIPC was not engaged in law enforcement surveillance." >>p 5 same issue. > >I don't know what "NIPC" means, but I thought at first you meant that >NIPC was in Lithuania. Perhaps not. Um, was it unreasonable to assume that readers of dis here forum would recognize Nat'l Infrastruct. Protection Center (in the context of FBI)? TimSim 2.01 indicates you should have recognized the acronym. Do I need a service pack :-) update on that?
