Re: Make legal threats, go to jail for 20 years

[Sampo A Syreeni]

On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Declan McCullagh wrote:

>Whoever knowingly provides or obtains the labor or services of a 
>person...by means of the abuse or threatened abuse of law or the legal process,
>shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
>
>URL: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d106:h.r.03244:
>
>I can imagine some abuses of this, in workplace situations or divorce cases...

OTOH, it could be extremely useful with frivolous patents etc.

Sampo Syreeni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, aka decoy, student/math/Helsinki university

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Two items, of varying relevance to the list

[Tim May]

Two items which may have only slight relevance to the list. I've been 
waiting for an opportunity to mention them in context...

First, Judea Pearl's "Causality." A mix of logic, AI, and ontology. 
Closely related to issues of belief and causality. (Some of you may 
know of my interest in Dempster-Shafer belief theory...this is 
closely related.)

Second, just watched "Lola rennt," aka "Run, Lola, Run," for the 
fourth or fifth time. Saw it in a theater the first time, a year or 
so ago.

It's interesting that German is so willing to absorb new language 
terms, completely unlike French. English has embraced foreign 
expressions, and so, it seems, has German.

Of these two points, the Pearl book is more significant, ultimately. 
But the film has its place.

Sorry there is no "crypto significance" here. No S-box details, no 
Rijndael details. TS.


--Tim May

-- 
-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
Timothy C. May  | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
"Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.

Fw: [Fwd: Markierte Musik: SDMI Crack]

[Marcel Popescu]

Yiih! Will they release SDMI knowing that it is broken? [Not that it
wasn't a bad idea from the start.]

 Original Message 
Subject: Markierte Musik: SDMI Crack
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:32:16 +0200
X-Loop: openpgp.net
From: "q/depesche" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

q/depesche 00.10.13/1

Markierte Musik: SDMI Crack

Wie Salon Magazine berichtet, wurde das von der Musikindustrie
favorisierte Muik-Wasserzeichen System, die so genannte "Secure
digital Music Initiative" einem Crack zugeführt. Was dieser zu
bedeuten hat, ist noch nicht ganz sicher.

-.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.- -.-. --.-
| Watch out -- recording industry executives are about to start
running for cover. All of the Secure Digital Music Initiative's
watermarks -- its much ballyhooed music protection scheme -- have
been broken. A spokesperson for SDMI has denied the reports, but
according to three off-the-record sources, the results of the Hack
SDMI contest are in and not one single watermark resisted attack.

The hacking contest, which invited the general Net population to
break the recording industry's watermarking system and win
$10,000, ended Sunday; this week, SDMI members are meeting in
Los Angeles to discuss the results. Although a core group of
participants (including members of the Recording Industry
Association of America) who coordinated the testing process are
aware of the contest results, the larger SDMI consortium has yet to
be informed.

The key issue is whether the breaks are meaningful or not -- in other
words, could any hacker repeat the breaks, and is the quality of the
music preserved even when the watermark is scrubbed out?
According to one insider, all these hacks were, in fact, technically
"solid." The hacker boycott of SDMI organized by members of the
programming community who were suspicious of what they saw as
an attempt to coopt their labor in the service of a corrupt industry has
turned out to be effectively irrelevant.

According to one witness attending the SDMI conference, recording
industry members held an emergency meeting at 6 a.m. PDT
Thursday to discuss the results. SDMI members and the press will
likely be informed Friday, several sources said, although most
speculated that the record industry would try to downplay the results.

Voll Text

Re: Two items, of varying relevance to the list

[jim bell]

- Original Message - 
From: Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> It's interesting that German is so willing to absorb new language 
> terms, completely unlike French. English has embraced foreign 
> expressions, and so, it seems, has German.

Maybe they've decided they need more "sprechenraum".

Jim Bell

RE: New OLD cryptograph patent for NSA

[David Honig]

At 10:55 PM 10/12/00 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote:
>
>It's often hard to tell whether a physical object violates
>a given patent or not - bitspace is often pretty subtle stuff,
>especially if it's manufacturing methods rather than end results
>that are the subject of the patent.
>
>But increasingly, the interesting patents are (gak) software,
>(gak gak) algorithms, and (gak phfft) business methods,
>all of which are basically bits that are potentially easy to make
untraceable.
>Sure, if you actually have to ship somebody the infringing code
>on a CDROM or DVD, then there's some traceability,
>but that's decreasingly interesting as a distribution method.

Before anyone else starts, don't take my hypothesis that patents 
will survive in a crypto-abundant world as endorsement for the
USP&TO lunacy we've all seen.  You can limit the context to 
physical-object or manufacturing patents.  It is has been pretty
well argued that bits will be very hard to regulate in any sense
of that word; and also that USPTO has been doing too much PCP during
work hours.

RE: Re: Anonymous Remailers cpunk

[Trei, Peter]

> --
> From: Jim Choate[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Reply To: Jim Choate
> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 7:09 PM
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:  CDR: Re: Anonymous Remailers cpunk
> 
> 
> On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Steve Furlong wrote:
> 
> > < > the traffic be encrypted>>
> 
> > Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes. This subthread came along
> > because some people have noticed that anonymous remailers are used for
> > an awful lot of spam. Peter Trei proposed that remailers could pass
> > along only encrypted mail. My understanding was that Alice, the
> > message's author, would encrypt the message with Bob's public key; Bob
> > is the end recipient: a person or a mailing list or whatever. Alice
> > would send the message through Ramona, the anonymous remailer. Ramona is
> > requiring that messages be encrypted as a means of filtering out spam.
> > Ramona does not need to know Bob's public or private keys; Ramona cares
> > only that the message is encrypted.
> 
> So? I set up a email address that I offer to the spammers to sign up to
> the anonymous remailers and then it proxies their email into the encrypted
> network. I figure this baby'll stop'em for about six months.
> 
Jim:

A spammer (or your spammer's proxy) is not going to 
individually encrypt messages to thousands or
millions of end-recipients, each with their own public
key - the time factor makes this uneconomical, and 
the hassle factor of finding all the recipient public 
keys makes it impractical. Thus, only remailers 
which send out plaintext are useful to spammers
as exit remailers.

It is only exit remailers (ie, the remailer which sends
to the final recipient) which get hassled for sending
spam.

The goal is to make remailer operators life easier by
preventing them from being used to spam random
lusers, who may initiate complaints against the
remailer operator.

It is not to prevent spam passing through a remailer
somewhere in mid-cloud. While such encrypted
spam will increase the volume of traffic, for most
remailers that is a Good Thing - more material to
confuse the traffic analysis. As long as it gets 
dropped before leaving the remailer network, no
harm is done.
 
Steve understands this, as does every one else but
you. 

What's the problem?

> For it to really stop spam it would need to be well distributed. So how do
> you offset the increased sys admin issues this raises?
> 
Any remailer operator can decide not to pass along plaintext. So long as the
message sender is aware of this property, nothing more needs to be
distributed.
There are no increased sysadmin issues.

> Then there is the old key management problem.
> 
> James Choate
> 
No, there is not, beyond the fact that the message originator must know the 
final recipient's public key.

Jim, do you really understand how remailer chaining works?

Peter Trei

> Vizzini: HE DIDN'T FALL? INCONCEIVABLE!
> Inigo Montoya: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you
> think it means.
>   - The Princess Bride
> 
> 
> 

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Re: FBI: We Need Cyber Ethics Education

[No User]

Bill Stewart wrote:

> Tim's spoof got to me before the original did,
> and I'd read about halfway through before noticing that
> it was probably a spoof and then noticing it was from Tim :-)

> That's the problem with stuff that's too realistically written...

"There oughtta be a law..."

Love a good mystery?

[justice4all]

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-
Get free email from CNN Sports Illustrated at http://email.cnnsi.com/

cypherpunks, The Holidays are just around the corner -QXWP

[mnpjl88]

Dear cypherpunks,

This letter is about an opportunity to make an incredible amount of
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guess this is really working! Give it a try! All I did was follow the 
instructions in the
letter that I received below, and sent out some e-mail to people who 
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my ads.

Here is a testimony from one of the thousands who have benefited from
this simple investment plan.

"I'm a retired attorney, and about a year ago a man came to me with a
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get back 
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money. A week later I met again with my client to discuss the issue. I told 
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I was getting more than I could open in a day. After three months the 
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coming. I kept a precise record of my earnings and at the end it totaled
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"PLEASE ADD ME TO YOUR MAILING LIST". 
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2. Steve Piffero 322 Escalona Dr. Santa Cruz, CA 95060

3. Tony Marques 48813 Sauvignon Ct. Fremont, CA 94539

4. Rob Wallace 3300 Tracy Dr. Santa Clara, CA 95051

5. Cary Motter 669 Vasona Ct. Los Gatos, CA 95032

6. Matthew Lindsey 5313 Chatham Lake Dr. Virginia Beach, VA 23464

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2) REMOVE the NAME and ADDRESS NEXT to #1 at the top of the list 
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move the rest of the names UP one position. Then place YOUR name
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through E-mail, through posting in "FREE CLASSIFIED ADS" and 
"NEWSGROUPS" 
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This letter has been proven perfectly legal for all of the above as long
as you follow the instructions

Revised Deadline for FC'01 submission

[R. A. Hettinga]

--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:28:36 -0400
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:27:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Paul Syverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Paul Syverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Revised Deadline for FC'01 submission
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Resent-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Many have been asking about extensions. Here is a CFP with the
extension explicitly included as a revised deadline. Note that there
will be no further extensions beyond what is listed below.

-Paul Syverson

   Final Call for Papers
 Financial Cryptography '01
DEADLINE EXTENDED: SEE BELOW

 February 19-22, 2001
  Grand Cayman Marriott Beach Resort
 Cayman Islands, BWI


Original papers are solicited on all aspects of financial data security and
digital commerce in general for submission to the Fifth Annual Conference on
Financial Cryptography (FC01). FC01 aims to bring together persons involved
in the financial, legal and data security fields to foster cooperation and
exchange of ideas. Relevant topics include

Anonymity Protection   Infrastructure Design
Auditability   Legal/ Regulatory Issues
Authentication/Identification  Loyalty Mechanisms
Certification/AuthorizationPayments/ Micropayments
Commercial TransactionsPrivacy Issues
Copyright/ I.P. Management Risk Management
Digital Cash/ Digital Receipts Secure Banking Systems
Economic Implications  Smart Cards
Electronic Purses  Trust Management
ImplementationsWaterMarking


INSTRUCTIONS FOR AUTHORS: Electronic submission strongly encouraged.
Electronic submissions due 6AM, Washington DC time, October 23, 2000.
(Instructions available at http://www.fc01.uwm.edu).
Alternatively, send a cover letter and 15 copies of an extended
abstract to be received no later than October 23, 2000 to the Program
Chair. The extended abstract should start with the title, names of
authors, abstract, and keywords followed by a succinct statement
appropriate for a non-specialist reader specifying the subject
addressed, background, main achievements, and significance to
financial data security. Submissions are limited to 15 single-spaced
pages of 11pt type and should constitute substantially original
material. Panel proposals are due no later than November 27, 2000 (or
postmarked and airmailed by November 20).  Panel proposals should
include a brief description of the panel and a list of prospective
panelists.  Notification of acceptance or rejection of papers and
panel proposals will be sent to authors no later than December 8,
2000.  Authors of accepted papers must guarantee that their papers
will be presented at the conference and must be willing to sign an
acceptable copyright agreement with Springer-Verlag.  Use the above
address for electronic submissions or mail hardcopy to:

Paul Syverson, FC01 Program Chair
Center for High Assurance Computer Systems  (Code 5540)
Naval Research Laboratory
Washington DC 20375  USA
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.syverson.org
phone: +1 202 404-7931

PROCEEDINGS: Final proceedings will be published by Springer Verlag in
their Lecture Notes in Computer Science (LNCS) series.  Preproceedings
will be available at the conference, but final versions will not be
due until afterwards, giving authors the opportunity to revise their
papers based on presentations and discussions at the meeting.

Program Committee

Matt Blaze, AT&T Labs - Research
Yair Frankel, Ecash
Matt Franklin, UC Davis
David Kravitz, Wave Systems Corp.
Arjen Lenstra, Citicorp
Philip MacKenzie, Lucent Bell Labs
Avi Rubin, AT&T Labs - Research
Jacques Stern, Ecole Normale Supérieure
Kazue Sako, NEC
Stuart Stubblebine, CertCo
Paul Syverson (Chair), Naval Research Laboratory
Win Treese, Open Market, Inc.
Doug Tygar, UC Berkeley
Michael Waidner, IBM Zurich Research Lab
Moti Yung, CertCo

Important Dates

Extended Abstract Submissions Due: Oct. 23, 2000, 6AM, Washington DC time
   (or hardcopy received by Oct. 23, 2000)
Panel Proposal Submissions Due: November 27, 2000
Notification: Dec 8, 2000

Electronic submission information:
See http://www.fc01.uwm.edu

General Chair
Stuart Haber, InterTrust STAR Lab

Electronic Submission chair
George Davida, UWM

Further Information about conference registration and on travel, hotels, and
Grand Cayman itself will follow in a separate general announcement. FC01 is
organized by the International Financial Cryptography Association.
Additional information will be found at http://fc01.ai

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA

Re: Anonymous Remailers cpunk

[Jim Choate]

On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, Trei, Peter wrote:

> A spammer (or your spammer's proxy) is not going to 
> individually encrypt messages to thousands or
> millions of end-recipients, each with their own public
> key - the time factor makes this uneconomical, and 
> the hassle factor of finding all the recipient public 
> keys makes it impractical. Thus, only remailers 
> which send out plaintext are useful to spammers
> as exit remailers.

They do it now, sans encryption. The mass distribution is what makes it
economical. If the encryption can be gateway'ed then it's useless and
doesn't raise the cost significantly.

A more useful mechanism would be to distribute the keys and appropriate
client software to spammers. What's a flat $50?...

> It is only exit remailers (ie, the remailer which sends
> to the final recipient) which get hassled for sending
> spam.

And it has NOTHING to do with the encryption. The lack of log's is what
prevents back tracing.
 
> The goal is to make remailer operators life easier by
> preventing them from being used to spam random
> lusers, who may initiate complaints against the
> remailer operator.

No, the goal is to stop spammers.

In addition, there are aspects of remailer operation that make the
complaints about spam pretty irrelevant.

> It is not to prevent spam passing through a remailer
> somewhere in mid-cloud. While such encrypted
> spam will increase the volume of traffic, for most
> remailers that is a Good Thing - more material to
> confuse the traffic analysis. As long as it gets 
> dropped before leaving the remailer network, no
> harm is done.

Nobody said anything about the interim processing until now. How is this
relevant to the 'free speech' aspect of requiring the use of particular
forms of encryption end-to-end.

Where's the key management mechanism to ensure the security of the traffic
in the reamiler network?

> Steve understands this, as does every one else but
> you. 
> 
> What's the problem?

It's your problem, there are aspects of this proposal that are simply
silly, and several others that haven't been adequately explained or
examined.

You talk about decreasing the load due to spam, and don't even recognize
that you've replaced it with a whole other process. One that potentialy
could be more complicated, error prone, and expensive in time and resource
impact than the original 'problem'.

The solution to bad speech is more speech, not regulation. And don't kid
yourself that setting up such a mechanism isn't regulatory.

> Any remailer operator can decide not to pass along plaintext. So long as the
> message sender is aware of this property, nothing more needs to be
> distributed.
> There are no increased sysadmin issues.

What algorithm are you proposing to identify plain-text? There are key
managment issues, what is your proposal for this problem? There is the
increased complication of admining the box (think of resources to support
both the remailer operation as well as the encryption - consider that
scale carefuly).

I'm in Zimbabwe and the remailer is in the US, how do I manage the keys to
enter the network in such a way that it is secure?

> No, there is not, beyond the fact that the message originator must know the 
> final recipient's public key.

You need the key to get into the remailer, otherwise how does it tell the
message is encrypted? You seriosly propose sticking some static PGP header
for example will stop anyone, spammers know how to use word processors too
you know.

> Jim, do you really understand how remailer chaining works?

Yep. Apparently better than you do.

Have a nice day you pretentious butthead.



 He is able who thinks he is able.

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Re: Think cash

[James A.. Donald]

 --
At 11:36 PM 10/12/2000 -0400, David Honig wrote:
 > You seem to be supposing that human perceptual algorithms (and the
 > illusions they produce) are somehow unknowable or unreplicable by
 > nonanimal  machinery.
 >
 > This is meat chauvinism.

Claims of computer vision, and computer walking, and computers doing well 
anything that a spider can do well, are a mixture of hype and fraud.

 --digsig
  James A. Donald
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  7N6aeuJRFBnYna+aAOMenoR8XGxuEYD+S3obIVsh
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