Re: Microsoft: A Day Of Satisfaction As Corporate Bully GetsComeuppance
Lucky Green wrote: > > I'd say that Phill is summing up the facts rather nicely. To all those > celebrating the "victory" of the largest Borg known to man (the USG) over > Microsoft: if they can outlaw Windows, they can outlaw Linux. sorry if I missed anything, but who exactly wants to outlaw windows? from the news we get over here, it seems more like the business practice of forcing it on everyone is in question, not the product.
Re: Remote bugging: new mobile telephony feature
At 2:00 AM -0400 4/5/00, Lucky Green wrote: >I am currently participating in specifications working groups focused on >next-generation digital mobile telephony. Cypherpunks will find some of the >new features coming to a mobile phone near you interesting: the subscriber's >telephony provider will be able to initiate outbound calls via a request >over SMS and even will be able to access the user's phone directory without >user approval or notification. Nobody at this meeting that I could identify >appears to be concerned in the slightest about the security implications of >this "feature". Their sole concern appears to be that the provider still >gets paid for such non-user initiated calls. > >Amazing... All of these other folks in these working groups...is there any way you can kill them all at one time, without yourself being in any danger? --Tim May -- -:-:-:-:-:-:-: Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
COMSEC in the absence of an opponent
Upon request received in private email, here is more from the cellular front: A while back, I had a conversation with a well-known Swedish manufacturer of encrypting digital mobile phones. The manufacturer is the primary supplier of such phones to the Swedish armed forces. When inquiring about the key management used by the phones, I was informed that the phones contact a central key server prior to establishing a connection. Naturally, I asked what would happen should the key server become inoperable. Long-time readers of this list are probably not surprised by the answer: "In that case, each handset reverts to using a system-wide default key". Right... I see... When I pointed out that it was not inconceivable that the central key server might become inoperable in a time of crisis, the manufacturer told me that this was highly unlikely, given that Sweden does not presently have any enemies and thus the key server is therefore not considered threatened. Makes you wonder why the armed forces would bother with deploying encrypting phones. Or why the armed forces even continue to exist. I have this theory that the present need for security products far exceeds the number of individuals capable of designing secure systems. Consequently, industry has resorted to employing folks and purchasing "solutions" from vendors that shouldn't be let near a project involving securing a system. I can't prove this claim, but I sure have the distinct feeling that this the current situation. --Lucky Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." - Mohandas K. Gandhi, An Autobiography, pg 446 http://www.citizensofamerica.org/missing.ram
Re: Microsoft: A Day Of Satisfaction As Corporate Bully
At 3:28 AM -0400 4/5/00, Tom Vogt wrote: >Lucky Green wrote: >> >> I'd say that Phill is summing up the facts rather nicely. To all those >> celebrating the "victory" of the largest Borg known to man (the USG) over >> Microsoft: if they can outlaw Windows, they can outlaw Linux. > >sorry if I missed anything, but who exactly wants to outlaw windows? >from the news we get over here, it seems more like the business practice >of forcing it on everyone is in question, not the product. It isn't forced on everyone. I don't have or use Windows. (At least not since the execrable 1.0). Get your facts straight. --Tim May -- -:-:-:-:-:-:-: Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
Re: Microsoft: A Day Of Satisfaction As Corporate Bully
Tim May wrote: > It isn't forced on everyone. I don't have or use Windows. (At least > not since the execrable 1.0). > > Get your facts straight. get real. while there are no guns involved, and thus the word "force" might be debatable, the amount of choice available to a) end-users and b) resellers is far from what it would be in a theoretical free market.
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Re: Microsoft: A Day Of Satisfaction As Corporate Bully
At 05:52 AM 4/5/00 -0400, Tom Vogt wrote: >get real. while there are no guns involved, and thus the word "force" >might be debatable, the amount of choice available to a) end-users and >b) resellers is far from what it would be in a theoretical free market. News flash: the universe doesn't owe you the number of 'choices' you imagine you deserve.
Re: Microsoft: A Day Of Satisfaction As Corporate Bully
At 07:50 AM 4/5/00 -0400, Jim Choate wrote: >Microsoft for years has done everything they can do eliminate or delay >competition. So who doesn't? Eat or be eaten. Responsibility is to investors. >The sole intent is to reduce the actual number of options >available to the consumer. The sole intent is to survive. Which means planning and action. The sole intent of Ford Motor Co is to make all cars. This also reduces the number of options. Big deal. This will in fact drive the MS product line >onto your desktop because of two facts. The first will be the simple >elimination of the alternative product line. How can you eliminate something that others like, without using force? Administer testing in elementary schools and re-educate the Torvolds and Stallmen? Cf guns or pharmaceuticals, where its illegal by fiat to manufacture things. Although the DMCA edges towards making coding illegal. You have a Mac, How popular >is Mac? Maybe he has a Jaguar or a Yugo. How popular are those? Who cares? > Do they have a significant share of the market? Irrelevent. >the individual (as if a lone guy in a garage could build an OS in a timely >manner - ROTFL at that one) Or sell his OS for $95.. this is completely and utterly an unscalable >wall. Whining gets you nowhere.. except with government, which indicates its worth... > Yes, Linus wrote a small kernel but literaly >thousands of people (many more than even Microsoft has put on their >development I'd guess) working on it FOR FREE. Smells like teen spirit. Be so kind, seeing as >you're a font of unbridled economic insite, how does a single person in >their garage make a living when they're forced to give their product away >for free? If your answer is anything but "They can't" then you may not >have the insite you believe. Jim, invent your own fax-transmission protocol, and then get the Justice dept to persecute those bastards who already have fax machines out there. Anti-trust laws are unconstitutional seizures of property by the state. Intervention where there is noone wronged --just a bunch of whiny CEO losers. And a socialist national mentality that loves to drag down the successful.
Re: Crypto-Anarchy/Anarcho-Capitalist Errors in Understanding
At 08:01 AM 4/5/00 -0400, Jim Choate wrote: >Microsoft broke every one of these. They have gone out of their way to >reduce the ability of competition to come to market. Do you think you have to buy your competition a billboard for 'equal access'? Must your salespeople refer customers to competitors if they have a better deal? Where is the violence if you offer bulk discounts to package your product with another? What is the harm if you add a widget to your gizmo that shrinks the widget market? Maybe the aftermarket car-radio makers should sue the automakers for adding radios to cars --after all, it trashed their market, and is clearly not a transportation related feature. A free market means one with no guns ---it does not mean anything else, especially this kind of welfare-mentality 'fairness', or any royal pronouncement about what's 'best' for the herd. And don't think that the DoJ agreeing with you proves *anything*.
Re:Microsoft: A Day Of Satisfaction As Corporate Bully
At 09:57 AM 4/5/00 -0400, ... wrote: >Truth is, *NIX is too powerful - they fear the command prompt. Bull. They rightly loathe a user interface memorable only if you use it constantly. Which relies on recall, not recognition. And recall of cryptic spells, no less. Why do you think a lot of current *NIX work is ongoing in making slick desktops? Deployment. Cryptorelevence: if a security tool is not used, no security. GUI designers shouldn't invent crypto algorithms, and mathematicians aren't human factors experts. Deployment.
Re: Microsoft: A Day Of Satisfaction As Corporate Bully
David Honig wrote: > Anti-trust laws are unconstitutional seizures of property > by the state. Intervention where there is noone wronged --just > a bunch of whiny CEO losers. And a socialist national mentality that loves > to drag down the successful. you're definitely on the wrong track there. this is pure capitalism. it's an economical fact that few will doubt that a monopoly is bad for the market, and thus for the economy. the state, representing (ideally) both participant sides of the market, has the duty of ensuring that the market continues to work well. ever taken an economy course? I'm not sure whether this is the correct english translation, but there is something called "monopoly gains". there is an interesting fact there: the total, if counted over all participants (i.e. both buyers and seller) is NOT zero. the total is a loss. in short: a monopoly gains something for one participant, but means MORE loss to everyone else. so the net total for the economy is negative. which explains just WHY the society as a whole (let's leave government out of the equation) has an interest in avoiding it. basic capitalism. no socialism, social nationalism, communism or what other attributes for people you don't like you have.
Re: Crypto-Anarchy/Anarcho-Capitalist Errors in Understanding
David Honig wrote: > >Microsoft broke every one of these. They have gone out of their way to > >reduce the ability of competition to come to market. > > Do you think you have to buy your competition a billboard > for 'equal access'? Must your salespeople > refer customers to competitors if they have a better deal? > Where is the violence if you offer bulk discounts to package > your product with another? What is the harm if you > add a widget to your gizmo that shrinks the widget market? wrong focus. it's not the duty of every participant to watch out for the rules. that's why we have referees in most sports. while we expect you to abide by the rules, we know that the realities will incite you to bend or break them. none of the rules say that you must refer your customers to competitors, or occasionally pass the ball to the enemy. but there are still rules, you know? > A free market means one with no guns ---it does not mean > anything else, especially this kind of welfare-mentality 'fairness', or any > royal pronouncement about what's 'best' > for the herd. bullshit. the whole theory of free markets rests on a couple basic assumptions. one of them is a large number of possible sellers and buyers. everything else distorts the model into something else, and monopoly (seller-monopoly more precisely) is just one of the possible outcomes. it's just that the free market has been shown both in theory and practical life to be better than the other models. THAT is why the society (and the government as it's executive branch) restricts monopolies. it's got nothing to do with welfare or fairness. disclaimer: of course, a lot of people interested in welfare, fairness, socialism or whatever still applaud this. but you're judging the play by looking at the audience. wagner isn't a bad composer because hitler liked his music.
Re: Microsoft: A Day Of Satisfaction As Corporate Bully
David Honig wrote: > >get real. while there are no guns involved, and thus the word "force" > >might be debatable, the amount of choice available to a) end-users and > >b) resellers is far from what it would be in a theoretical free market. > > News flash: the universe doesn't owe you the number > of 'choices' you imagine you deserve. we're not talking about universe and natural laws here. we are talking about markets (which are man-made) and laws (which are man-made).
Re: Remote bugging: new mobile telephony feature
On Wed, Apr 05, 2000 at 04:05:23AM -0400, Tim May wrote: > At 2:00 AM -0400 4/5/00, Lucky Green wrote: > >I am currently participating in specifications working groups focused on > >next-generation digital mobile telephony. Cypherpunks will find some of the > >new features coming to a mobile phone near you interesting: the subscriber's > >telephony provider will be able to initiate outbound calls via a request > >over SMS and even will be able to access the user's phone directory without > >user approval or notification. Nobody at this meeting that I could identify > >appears to be concerned in the slightest about the security implications of > >this "feature". Their sole concern appears to be that the provider still > >gets paid for such non-user initiated calls. > > > >Amazing... > > All of these other folks in these working groups...is there any way > you can kill them all at one time, without yourself being in any > danger? Won't work. There's pretty much an endless supply of working group fodder. If they run out of technical people, they send marketing types who're even less concerned about privacy and security. -- Eric Murray www.lne.com/~ericm ericm at the site lne.com PGP keyid:E03F65E5
Re: Microsoft: A Day Of Satisfaction As Corporate Bully
At 09:36 AM 4/5/00 -0400, David Honig wrote: >At 05:52 AM 4/5/00 -0400, Tom Vogt wrote: > > >get real. while there are no guns involved, and thus the word "force" > >might be debatable, the amount of choice available to a) end-users and > >b) resellers is far from what it would be in a theoretical free market. > >News flash: the universe doesn't owe you the number >of 'choices' you imagine you deserve. But, if you agree with the premise of government anti-trust regulation it does owe you some other credible choices. It owes you more than a low price. --Steve
Re: COMSEC in the absence of an opponent
I think many on the list will find Bruce Schneier's new book right on this target. At 04:10 AM 4/5/00 -0400, Lucky Green wrote: >I have this theory that the present need for security products far exceeds >the number of individuals capable of designing secure systems. Consequently, >industry has resorted to employing folks and purchasing "solutions" from >vendors that shouldn't be let near a project involving securing a system. I >can't prove this claim, but I sure have the distinct feeling that this the >current situation. > >--Lucky Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Microsoft: A Day Of Satisfaction As Corporate Bully
At 09:36 AM 4/5/00 -0400, David Honig wrote: >At 07:50 AM 4/5/00 -0400, Jim Choate wrote: >How can you eliminate something that others like, without >using force? Administer testing in elementary schools and >re-educate the Torvolds and Stallmen? much deleted >Anti-trust laws are unconstitutional seizures of property >by the state. Intervention where there is noone wronged --just >a bunch of whiny CEO losers. And a socialist national mentality that loves >to drag down the successful. Yes, but revocation of government privilege (e.g., exclusivity of IP protection) is not. I believe some interesting and practical solutions may lie along this line of reasoning. --Steve
Re: Microsoft: A Day Of Satisfaction As Corporate Bully
David Honig wrote: > > At 09:57 AM 4/5/00 -0400, ... wrote: > >Truth is, *NIX is too powerful - they fear the command prompt. > > Bull. They rightly loathe a user interface memorable only > if you use it constantly. Which relies on recall, not > recognition. And recall of cryptic spells, no less. > > Why do you think a lot of current *NIX work is ongoing > in making slick desktops? Deployment. Overriding my considerable trepidation at sloshing through the murky waters of OS religious wars.. Let me ask a few questions... (1) How do you do the following in a GUI: copy all of the files in the current directory to each of the directories in the current search path except for the ones ending in .c, .cc or.C (2) How do you do the following in a command line interface: Compare the color registration of three different digital photographs and put the highest quality one in the current web page and throw the other two in the trash. See how easy it is to resolve this issue without talking about any specific OS? If fact each of the common OS's we talk about (windows,linux,MacOS with the occasional nod to Amiga et al) could complete both tasks admirably. Its really a question of which environment you prefer. As far as I know Bill gates hasn't ripped me off in years. Shouldnt the consumer be the last word? jim
