Re: sshd not doing key based authentication

2012-04-10 Thread Thorsten Kampe
* Rurik Christiansen (Tue, 10 Apr 2012 11:23:04 +1000)
> On 6/04/2012 08:44, Andrey Repin wrote:
> > Greetings, Rurik Christiansen!
> 
> [...]
> 
> >> and my understanding is that I can't run the sshd frontend without
> >> screwing the permissions.
> > I don't understand what you mean by this.
> 
> From an earlier mail on this list:
> 
> http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2008-11/msg00212.html
> 
> I cite:
> 
> "Ugh!  This suggests that you have not read OpenSSH readme in
> /usr/share/doc/Cygwin.  You can't do this without screwing up all
> the permissions on various directories and files that SSH checks
> the permissions of."

Nonsense. sshd doesn't change or "screw up" any permissions. I've been 
running sshd as user or sshd via xinetd run as user for the last seven 
years on my workstation and never had no problem. Of course I can only 
login as myself but that's expected.

Thorsten


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Re: Can RPM packages be installed into Cygwin?

2012-04-10 Thread Christopher Faylor
On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 02:03:29PM +0800, De-Jian Zhao wrote:
>It seems that the compilation under Cygwin is more complicated than
>expected.

Sometimes it is, especially when you are not quite sure what you're
doing, and the upstream project has made regrettable decisions about
compiling for Cygwin.

cgf

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Re: sshd not doing key based authentication

2012-04-10 Thread Larry Hall (Cygwin)

On 4/10/2012 10:02 AM, Thorsten Kampe wrote:

* Rurik Christiansen (Tue, 10 Apr 2012 11:23:04 +1000)

On 6/04/2012 08:44, Andrey Repin wrote:

Greetings, Rurik Christiansen!


[...]


and my understanding is that I can't run the sshd frontend without
screwing the permissions.

I don't understand what you mean by this.


 From an earlier mail on this list:

http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2008-11/msg00212.html

I cite:

"Ugh!  This suggests that you have not read OpenSSH readme in
/usr/share/doc/Cygwin.  You can't do this without screwing up all
the permissions on various directories and files that SSH checks
the permissions of."


Nonsense. sshd doesn't change or "screw up" any permissions. I've been
running sshd as user or sshd via xinetd run as user for the last seven
years on my workstation and never had no problem. Of course I can only
login as myself but that's expected.


And that's exactly the point of the referenced thread.  If you know how
to do what you've done and what the limitations are, then you can make
things work within these limitations.  For those that don't know all these
little details and limitations and just want to get sshd running in a
general, non-restrictive way, using the provided configure scripts is the
way to go and the Cygwin readme for OpenSSH is the right place to look for
details about these scripts and how to run them.  And more importantly,
unless you use these resources, it's assumed you know what you're doing
and that you don't need this list's help if you run into problems.  Just
to button up this thread for whoever may be reading it in the future,
if the previous statement doesn't describe you, don't try to initially
hand configure your OpenSSH installation and don't run sshd from the
command line unless you know what you are doing.

--
Larry

_

A: Yes.
> Q: Are you sure?
>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?

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Problem with reading nonblocking /dev/com in 1.7.10 and up

2012-04-10 Thread Abdul Muis
I have notice that I could not read serial device (/dev/com4 or
/dev/ttyS3) with non blocking mode since 1.7.10 and up. I used to read
serial data while doing openGL visualization. In which, the openGL
display was not changed due to blocking mode reading.

The command is

fcntl(fd, F_SETFL, FNDELAY); // set reading as non blocking mode, should
return '0' if no data comming
n=read(fd, &test, 10); // starting from 1.7.10 always return -1 although
there is incoming data

There is no problem with blocking mode, the program can read incoming data
fcntl(fd, F_SETFL, 0); // blocking mode
n=read(fd, &test, 10); // the program will stop here until incoming data
arrived

Before reporting this bug, I have tested in Windows 7 32bit, Windows 7
64bit.
luckily I have several cygwin version in different folder.
I have tested the program in version 1.7.9, 1.7.10, 1.7.11, and current
version 1.7.13 at both 32bit and 64bit Windows7.
The program can read in non blocking mode only in 1.7.9
In addition, although I compiled the program in 1.7.10 and put
cygwin1.dll (ver. 1.7.9) in the same folder, the program could read in
non blocking mode too. So, I suspect the bug is in cygwin1.dll in
version 1.7.10 and up.
Unfortunately, if I compiled the program in 1.7.11 and 1.7.13 then used
cygwin1.dll (ver. 1.7.9) the program stuck.

I notice in version 1.7.10, there are additional API_MINOR changed
(/usr/include/cygwin/version.h)

238: Export pthread_spin_destroy, pthread_spin_init, pthread_spin_lock,
pthread_spin_trylock, pthread_spin_unlock.
239: Export pthread_setschedprio.
240: Export ppoll.
241: Export pthread_attr_getstack, pthread_attr_getstackaddr,
pthread_getattr_np.
242: Export psiginfo, psignal, sys_siglist.
243: Export sysinfo.
244: Export clock_settime.
245: Export pthread_attr_getguardsize, pthread_attr_setguardsize,
pthread_attr_setstack, pthread_attr_setstackaddr.
246: Add CLOCK_PROCESS_CPUTIME_ID, CLOCK_THREAD_CPUTIME_ID.
Export clock_getcpuclockid, pthread_getcpuclockid.
247: Export error, error_at_line, error_message_count, error_one_per_line,
error_print_progname.
248: Export __fpurge.
249: Export pthread_condattr_getclock, pthread_condattr_setclock.
250: Export clock_nanosleep.
251: RTLD_NODELETE, RTLD_NOLOAD, RTLD_DEEPBIND added.
252: CW_CVT_ENV_TO_WINENV added.
253: Export TIOCSCTTY, tcgetsid.
254: Export getgrouplist.
255: Export ptsname_r.
256: Add CW_ALLOC_DRIVE_MAP, CW_MAP_DRIVE_MAP, CW_FREE_DRIVE_MAP.
257: Export getpt.
258: Export get_current_dir_name.
259: Export pthread_sigqueue.

I don't know what kind of changed that made non blocking read failed. I
attached the program for testing.
I really hope next version will make it possible again.

Thanks in advanced for all efforts.
Kind regards,
Abdul Muis


#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include   /* File control definitions */
#include   /* Error number definitions */
#include /* POSIX terminal control definitions */
#include 

#include  

int fd, fser1, fser2;
  
int baud, parity;

int open_port(void) {
int fd; // File Descriptor for serial port
char s[60]="/dev/com4";
baud=19200;
parity=0;

printf("Checking communication port : %s\n",s);
fd = open(s, O_RDWR | O_NOCTTY | O_NDELAY); 
if(fd == -1) {
perror("-- Unable to open /dev/com --");
exit(1);
}   else {
fcntl(fd, F_SETFL, 0);
printf("...Done\n");
}

return(fd);
}

void init_port(int fd) {
struct termios configs;

tcgetattr(fd, &configs);

switch(baud) {
case 9600: baud=B9600;break;
case 19200: baud=B19200;break;
case 38400: baud=B38400;break;
default: baud=B19200;
}
cfsetispeed(&configs, baud);
cfsetospeed(&configs, baud);

// Setting Control Mode
switch (parity) {
case 1:  // even parity
 configs.c_cflag |= PARENB; // Parity enable
 configs.c_cflag &= ~PARODD;// Even Parity
 break;
case 2:  // odd parity
 configs.c_cflag |= PARENB; // Parity enable
 configs.c_cflag |= PARODD; // Even Parity
 break;
default : // no parity
 //configs.c_cflag |= PARENB;   // Parity enable
 //configs.c_cflag &= ~PARODD;  // Even Parity
 configs.c_cflag &= ~PARENB;  // Parity disable
}
configs.c_cflag &= ~CSTOPB; // 1 stop bit
//configs.c_cflag |= CSTOPB;// 2 stop bit
configs.c_cflag &= ~CSIZE;
configs.c_cflag |= CS8;

Re: Can RPM packages be installed into Cygwin?

2012-04-10 Thread Warren Young

On 4/9/2012 11:48 PM, De-Jian Zhao wrote:

I wrote to the help desk of NCBI Blast+. They have no guidelines
for Cygwin users and also suggested the windows version.


It sounds like the Cygwin port is abandoned, then.  You should consider 
adopting it.


Yes, it's a fair bit of work, and I wouldn't be surprised if you 
initially don't have the skill to figure out everything about reviving 
this port.  However, the best way to learn is to try and do something.


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Re: Problem with reading nonblocking /dev/com in 1.7.10 and up

2012-04-10 Thread Peter Rosin
On 2012-04-10 20:17, Abdul Muis wrote:
> I have notice that I could not read serial device (/dev/com4 or
> /dev/ttyS3) with non blocking mode since 1.7.10 and up. I used to read
> serial data while doing openGL visualization. In which, the openGL
> display was not changed due to blocking mode reading.
> 
> The command is
> 
> fcntl(fd, F_SETFL, FNDELAY); // set reading as non blocking mode, should
> return '0' if no data comming
> n=read(fd, &test, 10); // starting from 1.7.10 always return -1 although
> there is incoming data

I don't know and haven't tried lately (no serial ports connected at the
moment), but in the past I have successfully used:

long flags = fcntl(fd, F_GETFL);
fcntl(fd, F_SETFL, flags | O_NONBLOCK);

FNDELAY is probably a non-posix name that in practice is equivalent to
O_NONBLOCK, but more importantly I think you should OR the flag in without
clobbering all other flags.

However, I last tested that before 1.7.10, so my version may well behave
just like your code.

Cheers,
Peter

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Re: Problem with reading nonblocking /dev/com in 1.7.10 and up

2012-04-10 Thread Christopher Faylor
On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 01:17:05AM +0700, Abdul Muis wrote:
>I have notice that I could not read serial device (/dev/com4 or
>/dev/ttyS3) with non blocking mode since 1.7.10 and up.

Out of curiosity, is it broken in the 2011-10-22 snapshot?

Be careful if you install it since there may be added stuff added to the
Cygwin API which would stop a more modern bash or mintty from working so,
if possible, just test from a cmd window.

http://cygwin.com/snapshots/

cgf

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Re: Problem in searching /proc/registry.

2012-04-10 Thread Christian Franke

PRIKHODKO, GEORGE wrote:

Hi,

Since Cygwin 1.7.12 version find command run on /proc/registry started to fail 
with massages 'find: File system loop detected...'.


find /proc/registry -type f

find: File system loop detected; `/proc/registry/HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT' is part of 
the same file system loop as `/proc/registry'.
find: File system loop detected; `/proc/registry/HKEY_CURRENT_CONFIG' is part 
of the same file system loop as `/proc/registry'.
find: File system loop detected; `/proc/registry/HKEY_CURRENT_USER' is part of 
the same file system loop as `/proc/registry'.
find: File system loop detected; `/proc/registry/HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE' is part of 
the same file system loop as `/proc/registry'.
find: File system loop detected; `/proc/registry/HKEY_USERS' is part of the 
same file system loop as `/proc/registry'.
find: File system loop detected; `/proc/registry/HKEY_PERFORMANCE_DATA' is part 
of the same file system loop as `/proc/registry'.

Has something changed in a way Cygwin 1.7.12 and up handles Windows registry?



This is likely a regression. Cygwin now returns same inode number 253 
for each entry below /proc/registry node:


$ ls -1Ri /proc/registry
/proc/registry:
253 HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT
253 HKEY_CURRENT_CONFIG
253 HKEY_CURRENT_USER
253 HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
253 HKEY_PERFORMANCE_DATA
253 HKEY_USERS
ls: /proc/registry/HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT: not listing already-listed directory
ls: /proc/registry/HKEY_CURRENT_CONFIG: not listing already-listed directory
ls: /proc/registry/HKEY_CURRENT_USER: not listing already-listed directory
ls: /proc/registry/HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE: not listing already-listed directory
ls: /proc/registry/HKEY_PERFORMANCE_DATA: not listing already-listed 
directory

ls: /proc/registry/HKEY_USERS: not listing already-listed directory

Last working snapshot was 2012-04-01.

Christian


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using a makefile to create an executable file

2012-04-10 Thread samuel.roy

Hello, 
I am very new to Cygwin and have little to no experience with programming.
My professor gave me code for a landscape evolution modeling program written
in C++. I am trying to compile the program so that I can run it as an
executable file through the command prompt on my Windows machine. He wrote
the code on a mac, but he says that it can be compiled on a pc when using
Cygwin. I installed Cygwin version 1.7.5 (according to the website) with
devel (in order to get the make utility and to be compatible with gcc and
g++). I am trying to use the make tool to compile the code from a given make
file (childi.mk) which is supposed to compile a laundry list of scripts
included in the uploaded zip file. When I run:
make -f childi.mk

from the source directory, it begins to compile but catches on a warning:
A problem arises when the makefile script gets to tmesh.cpp, line 3982:3,
with the warning "the address of triVal will never be NULL". 
Make then fails to create an executable file: "make *** [childInterface.o]
Error 1". 
The line in question from tmesh.cpp is:  "if( &triVal == 0 ) return 0;".

As I mentioned previously, I have no experience with programming and my only
intent here is to be able to create an executable file from the given code
and makefile. I noticed that a cmake file is also present, but I am unable
to get that to work and understand it even less. Does anyone have any
suggestions on how to successfully use Cygwin to create an exe file from the
given C++ code? 

Thank you for your time,
Sam

http://old.nabble.com/file/p33664890/Code.zip Code.zip 
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Some context is being stripped and I don't know how to create it to avoid "error while loading shared libraries: ?: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory" problem

2012-04-10 Thread Richard Troy

Hello All,

some oh, ten years ago or so I ran into this problem and thought I had it
licked wherein I'm launching Cygwin's bash utility (and from it another
program compiled under Cygwin) from Java. However, while the same code
works on every other version of Windows I can remember trying, it seems to
have returned for Windows 7. Either that, or I've forgotten some small
configuration fix!

I've searched the archives and found nothing pertinent so I entered a
question about this on Stackoverflow - could save some writing here to
just reference that:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10092730/launching-cygwin-built-executable-from-java-on-windows-7-fails-with-error-while

In short, a Gnu C program compiled under Cygwin wakes up, checks security
and configuration information, then calls Java. Later, under certain
conditions, the Java program wants to instantiate a program similar to
itself, so it calls the OS-level tools to launch the same C program from
Java, and the new instance of the C program then calls the same or
modestly different Java program. The error occurs when the first (oldest)
Java program attempts to launch the (second) C program. The call is
something like this:

cmd.exe /C C:/cygwin/bin/bash -c '/cygdrive/c/opt/ST/v3.3/bin/ST.exe'

The reason for calling cmd.exe (on some versions 'command.exe') is due to
inconsistencies in behavior if one just calls bash or other executable
programs as this is a general purpose interface. (This was developed more
than a decade ago and needs to run everywhere - if there's a better way,
I'm open to it, but this has worked well for a long time.)

It's worth mentioning that there is a test program that confirms the
Java call to the OS is working correctly by launching some basic level
Cygwin program. It reports success at calling programs to be run under
bash. (It could be the test is insufficient / flawed!)

Both the Windows PATH and every place I can find to set the "linux" PATH
have C:\cygwin\bin or equivalent. I recall that a LONG time ago, I'd copy
the cygwin1.dll to various places to cure this type of problem, but I
don't think I've done that in a long time (or don't recall doing it!) -
doing so now (making a copy in C:/Windows/system32/ for example) didn't
help.

I'm sure it is no surprise to anyone that everything works fine when it's
NOT being launched from Java... But it seems odd to me that I have an old
version of XP running with this same setup and the calls from Java work
fine!

I doubt very much this has anything to do with the Cygwin version, but
I'll provide whatever data anyone asks for. However, some things cygcheck
reports that caught my eye are to be found below. One notable thing is
apparent "orphaned Cygwin installations" - but I don't recall ever making
true installations in the locations claimed! (Maybe cygwin1.dll makes
these from wherever it's used?)

Thank you for any and all help.

Regards,
Richard
__

Excerpts from cygcheck:

Windows 7 Professional N Ver 6.1 Build 7600
Running under WOW64 on AMD64

Cygwin installations found in the registry:
  System: Key: c5e39b7a9d22bafb Path: C:\cygwin
  System: Key: 715c149bf086df04 Path: C:\opt\ScienceTools\v3.3 (ORPHANED)
  System: Key: a8fb4064ab2b92ac Path: C:\windows (ORPHANED)

Cygwin DLL version info:
DLL version: 1.7.6
DLL epoch: 19
DLL old termios: 5
DLL malloc env: 28
Cygwin conv: 181
API major: 0
API minor: 230
Shared data: 5
DLL identifier: cygwin1
Mount registry: 3
Cygwin registry name: Cygwin
Program options name: Program Options
Installations name: Installations
Cygdrive default prefix:
Build date:
Shared id: cygwin1S5
Warning: There are multiple cygwin1.dlls on your path
(YES, I did that trying to cure this problem!)



-- 
Richard


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Re: using a makefile to create an executable file

2012-04-10 Thread LMH
This is a question that would be better posted to a programing forum 
like CodeGuru Non Visual C++ Issues.


http://forums.codeguru.com/forumdisplay.php?s=111c5a2c3c03096907f8896f6194d142&f=9

You will need to post the entire output from make. It may be easier to 
compile and build the application from the command line without using 
make since make adds an additional level of errors that can occur.


If you find that the problem is from a missing cygwin component, than 
that is something you could get help with here.


LMH



samuel.roy wrote:


Hello,
I am very new to Cygwin and have little to no experience with programming.
My professor gave me code for a landscape evolution modeling program written
in C++. I am trying to compile the program so that I can run it as an
executable file through the command prompt on my Windows machine. He wrote
the code on a mac, but he says that it can be compiled on a pc when using
Cygwin. I installed Cygwin version 1.7.5 (according to the website) with
devel (in order to get the make utility and to be compatible with gcc and
g++). I am trying to use the make tool to compile the code from a given make
file (childi.mk) which is supposed to compile a laundry list of scripts
included in the uploaded zip file. When I run:
make -f childi.mk

from the source directory, it begins to compile but catches on a warning:
A problem arises when the makefile script gets to tmesh.cpp, line 3982:3,
with the warning "the address of triVal will never be NULL".
Make then fails to create an executable file: "make *** [childInterface.o]
Error 1".
The line in question from tmesh.cpp is:  "if(&triVal == 0 ) return 0;".

As I mentioned previously, I have no experience with programming and my only
intent here is to be able to create an executable file from the given code
and makefile. I noticed that a cmake file is also present, but I am unable
to get that to work and understand it even less. Does anyone have any
suggestions on how to successfully use Cygwin to create an exe file from the
given C++ code?

Thank you for your time,
Sam

http://old.nabble.com/file/p33664890/Code.zip Code.zip


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Re: using a makefile to create an executable file

2012-04-10 Thread Andrew DeFaria

On 4/10/2012 3:44 PM, samuel.roy wrote:

Hello,
I am very new to Cygwin and have little to no experience with programming.
My professor gave me code for a landscape evolution modeling program written
in C++. I am trying to compile the program so that I can run it as an
executable file through the command prompt on my Windows machine. He wrote
the code on a mac, but he says that it can be compiled on a pc when using
Cygwin. I installed Cygwin version 1.7.5 (according to the website) with
devel (in order to get the make utility and to be compatible with gcc and
g++). I am trying to use the make tool to compile the code from a given make
file (childi.mk) which is supposed to compile a laundry list of scripts
included in the uploaded zip file. When I run:
make -f childi.mk

from the source directory, it begins to compile but catches on a warning:
A problem arises when the makefile script gets to tmesh.cpp, line 3982:3,
with the warning "the address of triVal will never be NULL".
Make then fails to create an executable file: "make *** [childInterface.o]
Error 1".
The line in question from tmesh.cpp is:  "if(&triVal == 0 ) return 0;".

As I mentioned previously, I have no experience with programming and my only
intent here is to be able to create an executable file from the given code
and makefile. I noticed that a cmake file is also present, but I am unable
to get that to work and understand it even less. Does anyone have any
suggestions on how to successfully use Cygwin to create an exe file from the
given C++ code?

Thank you for your time,
Sam

http://old.nabble.com/file/p33664890/Code.zip Code.zip
These are excellent questions to ask your professor! This is not a place 
to get help with your homework.

--
Andrew DeFaria 
Going to church does not make you a Christian any more than standing in 
a garage makes you a car.



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Re: using a makefile to create an executable file

2012-04-10 Thread samuel.roy

Thanks for setting me in the right direction, I'll do as you suggest and no
longer pollute your message board with irrelevant material!

cheers


LMHmedchem2 wrote:
> 
> This is a question that would be better posted to a programing forum 
> like CodeGuru Non Visual C++ Issues.
> 
> http://forums.codeguru.com/forumdisplay.php?s=111c5a2c3c03096907f8896f6194d142&f=9
> 
> You will need to post the entire output from make. It may be easier to 
> compile and build the application from the command line without using 
> make since make adds an additional level of errors that can occur.
> 
> If you find that the problem is from a missing cygwin component, than 
> that is something you could get help with here.
> 
> LMH
> 
> 
> 
> samuel.roy wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>> I am very new to Cygwin and have little to no experience with
>> programming.
>> My professor gave me code for a landscape evolution modeling program
>> written
>> in C++. I am trying to compile the program so that I can run it as an
>> executable file through the command prompt on my Windows machine. He
>> wrote
>> the code on a mac, but he says that it can be compiled on a pc when using
>> Cygwin. I installed Cygwin version 1.7.5 (according to the website) with
>> devel (in order to get the make utility and to be compatible with gcc and
>> g++). I am trying to use the make tool to compile the code from a given
>> make
>> file (childi.mk) which is supposed to compile a laundry list of scripts
>> included in the uploaded zip file. When I run:
>> make -f childi.mk
>>
>> from the source directory, it begins to compile but catches on a warning:
>> A problem arises when the makefile script gets to tmesh.cpp, line 3982:3,
>> with the warning "the address of triVal will never be NULL".
>> Make then fails to create an executable file: "make ***
>> [childInterface.o]
>> Error 1".
>> The line in question from tmesh.cpp is:  "if(&triVal == 0 ) return 0;".
>>
>> As I mentioned previously, I have no experience with programming and my
>> only
>> intent here is to be able to create an executable file from the given
>> code
>> and makefile. I noticed that a cmake file is also present, but I am
>> unable
>> to get that to work and understand it even less. Does anyone have any
>> suggestions on how to successfully use Cygwin to create an exe file from
>> the
>> given C++ code?
>>
>> Thank you for your time,
>> Sam
>>
>> http://old.nabble.com/file/p33664890/Code.zip Code.zip
> 
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Re: Some context is being stripped and I don't know how to create it to avoid "error while loading shared libraries: ?: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory" problem

2012-04-10 Thread Larry Hall (Cygwin)

On 4/10/2012 6:15 PM, Richard Troy wrote:


Hello All,

some oh, ten years ago or so I ran into this problem and thought I had it
licked wherein I'm launching Cygwin's bash utility (and from it another
program compiled under Cygwin) from Java. However, while the same code
works on every other version of Windows I can remember trying, it seems to
have returned for Windows 7. Either that, or I've forgotten some small
configuration fix!

I've searched the archives and found nothing pertinent so I entered a
question about this on Stackoverflow - could save some writing here to
just reference that:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10092730/launching-cygwin-built-executable-from-java-on-windows-7-fails-with-error-while





I doubt very much this has anything to do with the Cygwin version, but
I'll provide whatever data anyone asks for. However, some things cygcheck
reports that caught my eye are to be found below. One notable thing is
apparent "orphaned Cygwin installations" - but I don't recall ever making
true installations in the locations claimed! (Maybe cygwin1.dll makes
these from wherever it's used?)


The orphaned installations represent places where cygwin1.dlls are or were.
You want to make sure you clean them up.  No reason to leave around orphans
to trip and fall on.  Also, since you're running 7 versions behind, updating
is recommended but, as you say, not obviously your problem.  Still, no
reason not to be thorough in your testing.   I would say, though, that it
makes sense to test that the environment you expect to see is what you're
getting when you invoke bash.  How about if you invoke "env" from "cmd /c"
instead of your program and send the output to a file you can inspect?

If any or all of the above doesn't enlighten, I'd recommend cygcheck output
accompany any follow-up here.

--
Larry

_

A: Yes.
> Q: Are you sure?
>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?

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