Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation
> If one or two of these cells are outside the board the > move will count as a pass. If the landing cell is occupied by another > stone the move is also counted as a pass. Illegal moves are also counted > as pass moves. Alternatively, the probability could be adjusted for the number of legal moves. (E.g. taking the easy example of (1,1) on an empty board,and eps of 0.2, you'd adjust (1,1), (2,1) and (1,2) to each be 1/3 probability). This does away with the involuntary pass concept. (But if you keep it, I agree with John Tromp that it is just a wasted move, not able to cause early game termination.) Darren ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation
To keep changes to the protocol and number of parameters low, wouldn't it be a possibility to consider multiple 'throws' of a frisbee? So if the engine decides to play a move you have the described arrangement of hitting adjactent fields with probability eps. If this results in a move outside the board or an illegal move, you just repeat until you get a legal move. This could even mean, that you could even use an existing engine without change. You just add the additional step generating the random noise on the moves. Or is this orthogonal to the envisioned game? Best regards, David Peters Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. November 2015 um 10:24 Uhr Von: "Darren Cook" An: computer-go@computer-go.org Betreff: Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation > If one or two of these cells are outside the board the > move will count as a pass. If the landing cell is occupied by another > stone the move is also counted as a pass. Illegal moves are also counted > as pass moves. Alternatively, the probability could be adjusted for the number of legal moves. (E.g. taking the easy example of (1,1) on an empty board,and eps of 0.2, you'd adjust (1,1), (2,1) and (1,2) to each be 1/3 probability). This does away with the involuntary pass concept. (But if you keep it, I agree with John Tromp that it is just a wasted move, not able to cause early game termination.) Darren ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation
Normalizing the probabilities and re-throwing the frisbee until it lands in a valid move are equivalent, of course. On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 5:01 AM, David Peters wrote: > To keep changes to the protocol and number of parameters low, wouldn't it > be a possibility to consider multiple 'throws' of a frisbee? > > So if the engine decides to play a move you have the described arrangement > of hitting adjactent fields with probability eps. If this results in a move > outside the board or an illegal move, you just repeat until you get a legal > move. This could even mean, that you could even use an existing engine > without change. You just add the additional step generating the random > noise on the moves. > > Or is this orthogonal to the envisioned game? > > Best regards, > David Peters > > *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 12. November 2015 um 10:24 Uhr > *Von:* "Darren Cook" > *An:* computer-go@computer-go.org > *Betreff:* Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation > > If one or two of these cells are outside the board the > > move will count as a pass. If the landing cell is occupied by another > > stone the move is also counted as a pass. Illegal moves are also counted > > as pass moves. > > Alternatively, the probability could be adjusted for the number of legal > moves. (E.g. taking the easy example of (1,1) on an empty board,and eps > of 0.2, you'd adjust (1,1), (2,1) and (1,2) to each be 1/3 probability). > > This does away with the involuntary pass concept. (But if you keep it, I > agree with John Tromp that it is just a wasted move, not able to cause > early game termination.) > > Darren > > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Mylin Valley The World Computer Weiqi Tournament
Hi, 1st World Computer Weiqi Tournament is held in Beijing, China. I can't read Chinese news, but maybe 8 programs, Zen, DolBaram, ManyFaces, TeamPachi, Ray, Golois, Coldmilk and Proweiqi will play final tomorrow. Winner will play with 28th China Go Meijin, Lian Xiao. Mylin Valley The World Computer Weiqi Tournament http://51wq.ourgame.com/icgoaien.aspx Many photo news http://51wq.lianzhong.com/Home/NewsDetails?newsID=538&newsCategoryName=%25e7%2584%25a6%25e7%2582%25b9%25e6%2596%25b0%25e9%2597%25bb Regards, Hiroshi Yamashita ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Scraping lower-ranked games from kgs
Hello, I would be interested for research purposes in getting lots of game sgfs of lower-ranked players, to contrast with the high dan and pro games that get put into collections. Even kyu games. I was thinking of getting them from kgs archives. I wonder if anyone already has a script that could (or could be easily adapted to) do this? And would they share? Thanks, Arthur ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation
I was thinking about the ko rule for frisbee ko, and realised it leads to problems. 1. Black takes a ko, White tries to make a ko threat, but accidentally retakes the ko. What should happen? 2. Black takes a ko. White tries to make a ko threat, but fails to make a valid move. Black tries to make connect the ko, but fails to make a valid move. May White now (try to) retake the ko? The solution is to get rid of all ko rules. You don't need them. Nick On 12 November 2015 at 11:19, Álvaro Begué wrote: > Normalizing the probabilities and re-throwing the frisbee until it lands > in a valid move are equivalent, of course. > > > > On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 5:01 AM, David Peters wrote: > >> To keep changes to the protocol and number of parameters low, wouldn't it >> be a possibility to consider multiple 'throws' of a frisbee? >> >> So if the engine decides to play a move you have the described >> arrangement of hitting adjactent fields with probability eps. If this >> results in a move outside the board or an illegal move, you just repeat >> until you get a legal move. This could even mean, that you could even use >> an existing engine without change. You just add the additional step >> generating the random noise on the moves. >> >> Or is this orthogonal to the envisioned game? >> >> Best regards, >> David Peters >> >> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 12. November 2015 um 10:24 Uhr >> *Von:* "Darren Cook" >> *An:* computer-go@computer-go.org >> *Betreff:* Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation >> > If one or two of these cells are outside the board the >> > move will count as a pass. If the landing cell is occupied by another >> > stone the move is also counted as a pass. Illegal moves are also counted >> > as pass moves. >> >> Alternatively, the probability could be adjusted for the number of legal >> moves. (E.g. taking the easy example of (1,1) on an empty board,and eps >> of 0.2, you'd adjust (1,1), (2,1) and (1,2) to each be 1/3 probability). >> >> This does away with the involuntary pass concept. (But if you keep it, I >> agree with John Tromp that it is just a wasted move, not able to cause >> early game termination.) >> >> Darren >> >> ___ >> Computer-go mailing list >> Computer-go@computer-go.org >> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >> >> ___ >> Computer-go mailing list >> Computer-go@computer-go.org >> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go >> > > > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > -- Nick Wedd mapr...@gmail.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation
On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM, Nick Wedd wrote: > I was thinking about the ko rule for frisbee ko, and realised it leads to > problems. > > 1. Black takes a ko, White tries to make a ko threat, but accidentally > retakes the ko. What should happen? This was already covered by having any illegal frisbee landing revert to a pass. Btw, it's impossible to make a ko threat neighbouring a ko retake, as all those points are occupied:( > 2. Black takes a ko. White tries to make a ko threat, but fails to make a > valid move. Black tries to make connect the ko, but fails to make a valid > move. May White now (try to) retake the ko? Being a superko fan myself, the answer is clear: not if it repeats the position. regards, -John ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] CGOS again
Hi Hiroshi, Thanks a lot for running CGOS! I have just connected Crazy Stone. It is running on one core of my web server: Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N2800 @ 1.86GHz I plan to let it play forever. I noticed the game gets blocked for a long time when Aya resigns. I suppose that may be on purpose. Rémi On 11/10/2015 02:11 PM, Hiroshi Yamashita wrote: Hi, I have started CGOS on my VPS(Virtual Private Server). 19x19 and 9x9 are running. In 9x9, komi is 7.0. Draw is 0.5 win in rating calc. I'll keep it running for a while. 13x13 is running on original server. time serverportkomi 9x9 5 minutesyss-aya.com 68097.0 19x19 15 minutesyss-aya.com 68197.5 13x13 10 minutescgos.boardspace.net 68137.5 http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/ http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/9x9/standings.html http://www.yss-aya.com/cgos/19x19/standings.html Regards, Hiroshi Yamashita ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] CGOS again
Hi Remi, I plan to let it play forever. That's awesome! Strong program is nice benchmark and motivation for others (of cource including me). I noticed the game gets blocked for a long time when Aya resigns. Yes, when Aya783a_50 resigns, it waits about 3 minutes in 9x9. And it waits 2sec each move. My VPS is very slow, about 400MHz. And Aya783a_50 and some anchors run on it. So I feel it need wait. And too short game cycle makes big sqlite3 db. It is not good for server. Anyway I will run CGOS at least for a year. Hiroshi Yamashita - Original Message - From: "Rémi Coulom" To: Sent: Friday, November 13, 2015 2:52 AM Subject: Re: [Computer-go] CGOS again Hi Hiroshi, Thanks a lot for running CGOS! I have just connected Crazy Stone. It is running on one core of my web server: Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N2800 @ 1.86GHz I plan to let it play forever. I noticed the game gets blocked for a long time when Aya resigns. I suppose that may be on purpose. Rémi ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] CGOS again
Thank you so much for running this! -Josh On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 5:48 PM, Hiroshi Yamashita wrote: > Hi Remi, > >> I plan to let it play forever. > > > That's awesome! > Strong program is nice benchmark and motivation for others > (of cource including me). > >> I noticed the game gets blocked for a long time when Aya resigns. > > > Yes, when Aya783a_50 resigns, it waits about 3 minutes in 9x9. And it > waits 2sec each move. My VPS is very slow, about 400MHz. And Aya783a_50 > and some anchors run on it. So I feel it need wait. And too short game > cycle makes big sqlite3 db. It is not good for server. > Anyway I will run CGOS at least for a year. > > Hiroshi Yamashita > > - Original Message - From: "Rémi Coulom" > To: > Sent: Friday, November 13, 2015 2:52 AM > Subject: Re: [Computer-go] CGOS again > > >> Hi Hiroshi, >> >> Thanks a lot for running CGOS! >> >> I have just connected Crazy Stone. It is running on one core of my web >> server: >> Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N2800 @ 1.86GHz >> I plan to let it play forever. >> >> I noticed the game gets blocked for a long time when Aya resigns. I >> suppose that may be on purpose. >> >> Rémi > > > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation
Yesterday I modified Many Faces to play Frisbee go an played a few games with some other people at the Beijing Computer go tournament. It's a very strange game. If there is interest I can make an installer and make it available for free. Josef Moudrik is also writing a program. David On Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:29:50 -0500, John Tromp wrote: On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM, Nick Wedd wrote: I was thinking about the ko rule for frisbee ko, and realised it leads to problems. 1. Black takes a ko, White tries to make a ko threat, but accidentally retakes the ko. What should happen? This was already covered by having any illegal frisbee landing revert to a pass. Btw, it's impossible to make a ko threat neighbouring a ko retake, as all those points are occupied:( 2. Black takes a ko. White tries to make a ko threat, but fails to make a valid move. Black tries to make connect the ko, but fails to make a valid move. May White now (try to) retake the ko? Being a superko fan myself, the answer is clear: not if it repeats the position. regards, -John ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Mylin Valley The World Computer Weiqi Tournament
Dear Yamashita san, I get a correct information from my student attending the tournament. Since there appeared only 9 programs (maybe you miss MyGo), the preliminary tournament is changed to a league, and top 4 programs will go to the semi-finals. The four programs are: Zen, Dolbaram, Many faces of Go, and Ray. Best regards, Masakazu Muramatsu 2015-11-12 21:26 GMT+09:00 Hiroshi Yamashita : > Hi, > > 1st World Computer Weiqi Tournament is held in Beijing, China. > I can't read Chinese news, but maybe 8 programs, Zen, DolBaram, > ManyFaces, TeamPachi, Ray, Golois, Coldmilk and Proweiqi will > play final tomorrow. > Winner will play with 28th China Go Meijin, Lian Xiao. > > Mylin Valley The World Computer Weiqi Tournament > http://51wq.ourgame.com/icgoaien.aspx > Many photo news > http://51wq.lianzhong.com/Home/NewsDetails?newsID=538&newsCategoryName=%25e7%2584%25a6%25e7%2582%25b9%25e6%2596%25b0%25e9%2597%25bb > > Regards, > Hiroshi Yamashita > > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Mylin Valley The World Computer Weiqi Tournament
Hi Muramatsu-san, Thank you for correct info. Wow! Ray will play semi-final. Good luck, Kobayashi-san! Hiroshi Yamashita - Original Message - From: "村松正和" To: "computer-go" ; "Hiroshi Yamashita" Sent: Friday, November 13, 2015 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Mylin Valley The World Computer Weiqi Tournament Dear Yamashita san, I get a correct information from my student attending the tournament. Since there appeared only 9 programs (maybe you miss MyGo), the preliminary tournament is changed to a league, and top 4 programs will go to the semi-finals. The four programs are: Zen, Dolbaram, Many faces of Go, and Ray. Best regards, Masakazu Muramatsu ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Scraping lower-ranked games from kgs
Hello, I have a simple script for downloading info (gamelist, list of oponents, games) one by one here: http://repo.or.cz/gostyle.git/blob/HEAD:/kgs/kgs.py If you want to download more players, you need to search through opponents of players you know. But do not spam the kgs server too much please :-) Regards, Josef On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 2:35 PM Arthur Cater wrote: > Hello, > I would be interested for research purposes in getting lots of game sgfs of > lower-ranked players, to contrast with the high dan and pro games that > get put into collections. Even kyu games. I was thinking of getting them > from kgs archives. > > I wonder if anyone already has a script that could (or could be easily > adapted to) do this? And would they share? > > Thanks, > > Arthur > > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation
Hi David, thanks for the experiment and the "report". Can you give some more info, for instance a game (sgf?!) with comments? What was the eps in your experiment(s)? Cheers, Ingo. PS. I have found two volunteers who are willing to operate Frusbee Go simulation bots in the 2016 Olympiad in Leiden. One of the two volunteers is reserved for David. Gesendet: Freitag, 13. November 2015 um 02:15 Uhr Von: fotl...@smart-games.com An: computer-go@computer-go.org Betreff: Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go Simulation Yesterday I modified Many Faces to play Frisbee go an played a few games with some other people at the Beijing Computer go tournament. It's a very strange game. If there is interest I can make an installer and make it available for free. Josef Moudrik is also writing a program. David On Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:29:50 -0500, John Tromp wrote: On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 9:07 AM, Nick Wedd wrote: > I was thinking about the ko rule for frisbee ko, and realised it leads to > problems. > > 1. Black takes a ko, White tries to make a ko threat, but accidentally > retakes the ko. What should happen? This was already covered by having any illegal frisbee landing revert to a pass. Btw, it's impossible to make a ko threat neighbouring a ko retake, as all those points are occupied:( > 2. Black takes a ko. White tries to make a ko threat, but fails to make a > valid move. Black tries to make connect the ko, but fails to make a valid > move. May White now (try to) retake the ko? Being a superko fan myself, the answer is clear: not if it repeats the position. regards, -John ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
