[computer-go] rz-74 on CGOS ?
Hi, Anybody knows what is rz-74? It is playing very strong at 19x19, and it looks like nothing I have seen before. Monte-Carlo with a lot of domain knowledge, maybe. A very strong classical program converted to Monte-Carlo would be my guess. Probably not MonteGNU. Handtalk? Go++? Very interesting mystery program, anyways. Rémi ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] rz-74 on CGOS ?
I was curious about that too, who is rz-74? The name is perhaps a clue. Is it at version 74?I haven't been watching the games, but are you saying it behaves like a Monte Carlo program? - Don On Mon, 2008-08-18 at 13:29 +0200, Rémi Coulom wrote: > Hi, > > Anybody knows what is rz-74? It is playing very strong at 19x19, and it > looks like nothing I have seen before. Monte-Carlo with a lot of domain > knowledge, maybe. A very strong classical program converted to > Monte-Carlo would be my guess. Probably not MonteGNU. Handtalk? Go++? > > Very interesting mystery program, anyways. > > Rémi > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] rz-74 on CGOS ?
Don Dailey wrote: I was curious about that too, who is rz-74? The name is perhaps a clue. Is it at version 74?I haven't been watching the games, but are you saying it behaves like a Monte Carlo program? - Don After watching more games, I am less impressed by its strength. It is definitely a Monte-Carlo program (constant thinking time per move, weird moves in the opening, hopeless tricks when losing). Maybe Monte GNU, after all. Rémi ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] rz-74 on CGOS ?
I looked at the last games played by rz-74, and it looks like a MC-program given how how it plays in the opening (odd moves in the center). I also doubt there are any traditional programs who can get 90% against gnugo on 19x19. Are there? But it seems to overplay badly in the opening in the last games against CS although I did not look carefully at it. One guess is that it is a MCTS version of gnugo, that may explain why its beats gnugo easily. -MP Quoting Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: I was curious about that too, who is rz-74? The name is perhaps a clue. Is it at version 74?I haven't been watching the games, but are you saying it behaves like a Monte Carlo program? ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] rz-74 on CGOS ?
I did a quick study of rz-74 and when playing BLACK against gnugo we get mostly very close scores, indicative of Monte Carlo: 20 B+1.5 7 B+3.5 1 B+5.5 1 B+Illegal 4 B+Resign 1 W+Resign 1 W+Time Results when playing WHITE against Gnugo-3.7.10* 2 B+Resign 1 B+Time 21 W+0.5 1 W+14.5 6 W+2.5 2 W+4.5 4 W+Resign The results makes me think this is a Monte Carlo program which I guess is no surprise. Ok, let me do a statistical analysis of the moves and see which known program it plays most like and we can figure out the author ... just kidding :-) - Don On Mon, 2008-08-18 at 13:29 +0200, Rémi Coulom wrote: > Hi, > > Anybody knows what is rz-74? It is playing very strong at 19x19, and it > looks like nothing I have seen before. Monte-Carlo with a lot of domain > knowledge, maybe. A very strong classical program converted to > Monte-Carlo would be my guess. Probably not MonteGNU. Handtalk? Go++? > > Very interesting mystery program, anyways. > > Rémi > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] rz-74 on CGOS ?
Magnus Persson wrote: I looked at the last games played by rz-74, and it looks like a MC-program given how how it plays in the opening (odd moves in the center). I also doubt there are any traditional programs who can get 90% against gnugo on 19x19. Are there? I agree that the winning rate against GNU Go is an indication. It is extremely difficult for a MC program to score 94% against GNU. Crazy Stone does it, but it is much stronger than rz-74. Many Faces scores only 73% or so. Rémi ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] rz-74 on CGOS ?
Just a guess: an incarnation of Sluggo? From: Rémi Coulom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: computer-go Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 6:13:37 AM Subject: Re: [computer-go] rz-74 on CGOS ? Magnus Persson wrote: > I looked at the last games played by rz-74, and it looks like a > MC-program given how how it plays in the opening (odd moves in the > center). I also doubt there are any traditional programs who can get > 90% against gnugo on 19x19. Are there? I agree that the winning rate against GNU Go is an indication. It is extremely difficult for a MC program to score 94% against GNU. Crazy Stone does it, but it is much stronger than rz-74. Many Faces scores only 73% or so. Rémi ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] rz-74 on CGOS ?
Perhaps on the crosstable page I should put another column that tells you, for each opponent, what your winning expectation is based on your respective ELO ratings? It would be nice to see at a glance whether you are winning more, or less, than you are expected to against specific players. - Don for instance, that you are beating program P On Mon, 2008-08-18 at 15:13 +0200, Rémi Coulom wrote: > Magnus Persson wrote: > > I looked at the last games played by rz-74, and it looks like a > > MC-program given how how it plays in the opening (odd moves in the > > center). I also doubt there are any traditional programs who can get > > 90% against gnugo on 19x19. Are there? > > I agree that the winning rate against GNU Go is an indication. It is > extremely difficult for a MC program to score 94% against GNU. Crazy > Stone does it, but it is much stronger than rz-74. Many Faces scores > only 73% or so. > > Rémi > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] rz-74 on CGOS ?
On Aug 18, 2008, at 10:19 AM, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Perhaps on the crosstable page I should put another column that tells you, for each opponent, what your winning expectation is based on your respective ELO ratings? It would be nice to see at a glance whether you are winning more, or less, than you are expected to against specific players. - Don That'd be nice to see. Higher on my cross-table wishlist is a small description of the bot. for instance, that you are beating program P On Mon, 2008-08-18 at 15:13 +0200, Rémi Coulom wrote: Magnus Persson wrote: I looked at the last games played by rz-74, and it looks like a MC-program given how how it plays in the opening (odd moves in the center). I also doubt there are any traditional programs who can get 90% against gnugo on 19x19. Are there? I agree that the winning rate against GNU Go is an indication. It is extremely difficult for a MC program to score 94% against GNU. Crazy Stone does it, but it is much stronger than rz-74. Many Faces scores only 73% or so. Rémi ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] rz-74 on CGOS ?
On 18, Aug 2008, at 6:58 AM, terry mcintyre wrote: Just a guess: an incarnation of Sluggo? not to my knowledge, but it is true that students do things that I am not aware of and they do make up their own player names. Cheers, David ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] yesterday's KGS bot tournament
My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/41/index.html Nick -- Nick Wedd[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] yesterday's KGS bot tournament
I saw an error in this, but when I looked again it was gone. - Don On Mon, 2008-08-18 at 17:08 +0100, Nick Wedd wrote: > My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/41/index.html > > Nick ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] yesterday's KGS bot tournament
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes I saw an error in this, but when I looked again it was gone. Yes, I normally make a few errors which I spot soon after uploading :) Nick -- Nick Wedd[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] yesterday's KGS bot tournament
One small correction, my server wasn't running two copies of HouseBot, it was running three. I discovered later there was a 4th running from somewhere else but haven't tracked it down yet. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 18, 2008, at 12:08 PM, Nick Wedd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/41/index.html Nick -- Nick Wedd[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] yesterday's KGS bot tournament
Nick Wedd wrote: > My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/41/index.html In the round 10 game between AyaMC and CrazyStone, the marked H8 move has no effect on life and death; the white stones are already dead. The killing move was 27 at E9. As far as I can tell white couldn't afford to save the group with 26 at E9 either. The lower left would have lived but too small, ending in a 1.5 point loss or so. :-) /Gunnar ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] yesterday's KGS bot tournament
Nick Wedd wrote: My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/41/index.html ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] yesterday's KGS bot tournament
Nick Wedd wrote: > My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/41/index.html [Please ignore the previous empty mail.] > In round 9, MonteGNU appeared to misread a ladder in its game > against CrazyStone. SGF. But maybe it knew it had no way to win. Yes, it was the usual Monte Carlo nonsense in hopeless positions. MonteGNU tries to cut some of that short by reverting to traditional GNU Go move generation, but not until the Monte Carlo search is sufficiently certain about the hopelessness. /Gunnar ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] rz-74 on CGOS ?
Rémi Coulom wrote: > Don Dailey wrote: >> I was curious about that too, who is rz-74? The name is perhaps a >> clue. Is it at version 74?I haven't been watching the games, but >> are you saying it behaves like a Monte Carlo program? >> >> - Don >> > > After watching more games, I am less impressed by its strength. It is > definitely a Monte-Carlo program (constant thinking time per move, weird > moves in the opening, hopeless tricks when losing). Maybe Monte GNU, > after all. I'm flattered by the guess that MonteGNU would be playing strongish at 19x19 but so far I'm happy if it manages to even place the stones on the intersections and not somewhere between. Oh well, maybe it can do a little better than that but compared to the strong programs it feels that much behind. /Gunnar ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] http://www.grappa.univ-lille3.fr/icga/ site down?
I haven't been able to access the ICGA tournament site for over a week. Anyone know anything about it? Ian ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
