Re: [computer-go] Can Go be solved???... PLEASE help!
As far I know, just coffee speaking with some physics friends. WE ALL live in multi dimensional world. Indeed, if more then 3 dimensions exists, we exist in them, also our computers. The thing is, our eyes only see the first three ones. I think you are talking about the God's computer ;-). --- Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: > On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 16:21 -0800, Christoph Birk > wrote: > > On Sat, 13 Jan 2007, Don Dailey wrote: > > > One of the theoretical limitations to > > > computing power (which was layed out in someones > posts) and I have > > > always understood to be the case, is related to > > > space - the physical size of the universe. > > > > The problem with higher dimensions is that they > are small AND they do > > NOT increase the 3-dimensional volume of our > universe. > > Imagine a 2 dimesional (finite) surface and bend > it in some way > > (eg. cylinder) ... even though your 2-dim > "universe" exists now in > > 3 dimensions, it did not increase in area. > > > > > If a computer can exist in 3 > > > dimensions, couldn't an infinite number of them > exist with 1 more > > > dimension? > > I'm suggesting computers that might exist outside > our 3 dimensional > space, not confined to our 3 dimensional space. > Perhaps there are > beings that see our space as flat from their many > dimensions and any > physical objects they deal with, are infinitely > bigger that we can > observe. > > For instance if there existed 2 dimensional beings, > we could not show > them 3 dimensional objects, just reflections of them > and any of our > objects would be infinitely large to them.If we > could build > 2 dimensional computers, we could stack any number > of them > on top of each other and they would not take up any > extra space, no? > > - Don > > > > > Nope; see above. > > > > Christoph > > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > __ Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ¡Probalo ya! http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Can Go be solved???... PLEASE help!
I bet Windows Vista would still run slow on God's computer though. Go Microsoft! Sorry to get off topic, I just figure we have beat this subject to death. - Nick On 1/17/07, Eduardo Sabbatella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As far I know, just coffee speaking with some physics friends. WE ALL live in multi dimensional world. Indeed, if more then 3 dimensions exists, we exist in them, also our computers. The thing is, our eyes only see the first three ones. I think you are talking about the God's computer ;-). --- Don Dailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: > On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 16:21 -0800, Christoph Birk > wrote: > > On Sat, 13 Jan 2007, Don Dailey wrote: > > > One of the theoretical limitations to > > > computing power (which was layed out in someones > posts) and I have > > > always understood to be the case, is related to > > > space - the physical size of the universe. > > > > The problem with higher dimensions is that they > are small AND they do > > NOT increase the 3-dimensional volume of our > universe. > > Imagine a 2 dimesional (finite) surface and bend > it in some way > > (eg. cylinder) ... even though your 2-dim > "universe" exists now in > > 3 dimensions, it did not increase in area. > > > > > If a computer can exist in 3 > > > dimensions, couldn't an infinite number of them > exist with 1 more > > > dimension? > > I'm suggesting computers that might exist outside > our 3 dimensional > space, not confined to our 3 dimensional space. > Perhaps there are > beings that see our space as flat from their many > dimensions and any > physical objects they deal with, are infinitely > bigger that we can > observe. > > For instance if there existed 2 dimensional beings, > we could not show > them 3 dimensional objects, just reflections of them > and any of our > objects would be infinitely large to them.If we > could build > 2 dimensional computers, we could stack any number > of them > on top of each other and they would not take up any > extra space, no? > > - Don > > > > > Nope; see above. > > > > Christoph > > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > __ Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí. Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ¡Probalo ya! http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Can Go be solved???... PLEASE help!
On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 03:47 -0600, Nick Apperson wrote: > I bet Windows Vista would still run slow on God's computer though. Go > Microsoft! Sorry to get off topic, I just figure we have beat this > subject to death. You would probably just have to reboot it more often. > - Nick > ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Can Go be solved???... PLEASE help!
On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 06:03 -0300, Eduardo Sabbatella wrote: > As far I know, just coffee speaking with some physics > friends. WE ALL live in multi dimensional world. > Indeed, if more then 3 dimensions exists, we exist in > them, also our computers. The thing is, our eyes only > see the first three ones. > > I think you are talking about the God's computer ;-). I'll bet there is something more out there in computing hardware that we haven't figured, which will seemingly help us go beyond the limitations we imagine that we now have.Perhaps just wishful thinking on my part. I like to imagine that such a super computer is possible, even if it's not possible for us to build it or understand it. Maybe it can exist but cannot ever be accessible to us. - Don ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] Planet Computer-Go
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hej everybody, I'd like to announce Planet Computer-Go at http://computer-go.bettong.net. This is a website that aggregates all the blog posts about Computer-Go. Unfortunately it's very hard (at least for me) to find blog about computer go. I mean googling for "computer go blog" is obviously out of question ;) So, I depend on all of you. If you have a blog that is about computer go (even if only marginally), please contact me so I can add you to the site. Urban - -- http://bettong.net - Urban's Blog -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFrjGnggNuVCIrEyURAgKmAKC4tSWYIrvH7d7U8U4lftfrWdrPWgCfRxkK tyjKWpYn9Hasu/Dvd91aLGQ= =tpGc -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Planet Computer-Go
More correctly, a planet aggregates RSS feeds (rather than blogs). This means that you can add things like the the RSS feeds from version control systems, wikis, mailing lists, etc, etc Have you trawled through http://senseis.xmp.net/?GoBlogs ? cheers stuart On 1/17/07, Urban Hafner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hej everybody, I'd like to announce Planet Computer-Go at http://computer-go.bettong.net. This is a website that aggregates all the blog posts about Computer-Go. Unfortunately it's very hard (at least for me) to find blog about computer go. I mean googling for "computer go blog" is obviously out of question ;) So, I depend on all of you. If you have a blog that is about computer go (even if only marginally), please contact me so I can add you to the site. Urban - -- http://bettong.net - Urban's Blog -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFrjGnggNuVCIrEyURAgKmAKC4tSWYIrvH7d7U8U4lftfrWdrPWgCfRxkK tyjKWpYn9Hasu/Dvd91aLGQ= =tpGc -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] UCT memory issues and scalability
Hi, Don Don Dailey wrote: > v + sqrt((2*log(t))/(10*n)) .. > .. n the number of simulations of this move 1. Does that mean the number in any branch? Do you store an array with the number of times each move is played, no matter in what branch? 2. Do you have some explanation for this expression? Thank you for sharing you results. I am very interested in memory issues of UCT. Jacques. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] UCT memory issues and scalability
I copied this from another post someone made: Here is a summary of how it works: - Use probability of winning as score, not territory - Use the average outcome as position value - Select the move that maximizes v + sqrt((2*log(t))/(10*n)) v is the value of the move (average outcome, between 0 and 1), n the number of simulations of this move, and t the total number of simulations at the current position. In case a move has n = 0, it is selected first. Is the formula confusing you? I will try to break it down. You have statistics on every node of the game tree. Think of the above formula as an algorithm for determining which node in the game tree to follow.His terminology was a bit confusing but when he says, "the move/this move" and "current" position he means the current node and some child node under consideration. Apply the formula to every child node and choose the one with the highest value.If one or more of the child nodes has not been visited, pick one of them arbitrarily. I use a completely different formula in my program for selecting a move, but I'm testing this formula now. - Don On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 17:33 +, Jacques Basaldúa wrote: > Hi, Don > > Don Dailey wrote: > > > v + sqrt((2*log(t))/(10*n)) .. > > .. n the number of simulations of this move > > 1. Does that mean the number in any branch? > Do you store an array with the number of times > each move is played, no matter in what branch? > > 2. Do you have some explanation for this expression? > > Thank you for sharing you results. I am very interested > in memory issues of UCT. > > Jacques. > > > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Can Go be solved???... PLEASE help!
Way off topic, on behalf of physical evidence of the dimension of universe: In an n-dimensional universe any radiation that propagates under common circumstances: 1. Conservation of energy 2. Constant speed 3. Isotropy (same intensity in all directions) satisfies: At a distance d from the source, the energy emitted at a moment d/c is contained in a n-dimensional hypersphere. Therefore, the energy measured at a distance d is = constant*intensity/d^(n-1) where n is the dimension of universe. All propagation laws (including gravity) have the form: constant*intensity/d^2 That is: n - 1 = 2 --> n = 3 Any coherent higher dimension model should explain which of the three circumstances is not met, how and why and without making any particular dimension different from the others. Something a lot more complicated than just drawing "easy conclusions" from analytic geometry. Jacques. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Planet Computer-Go
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Jan 17, 2007, at 15:43 , Stuart A. Yeates wrote: More correctly, a planet aggregates RSS feeds (rather than blogs). To be pedantic, it also aggregates RDF and Atom feeds if you want to ;) This means that you can add things like the the RSS feeds from version control systems, wikis, mailing lists, etc, etc Have you trawled through http://senseis.xmp.net/?GoBlogs? I have (briefly). But I haven't found anything. Maybe there aren't any bloggers out there that are also Computer Go programmers? Urban - -- http://bettong.net - Urban's Blog -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFrmZLggNuVCIrEyURAqaqAJoCyc639Yyc1+9obGbvU3uXQSWN/gCfVtTW PnWopc+mNDd2qCWKNi6o9jQ= =2pUn -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Planet Computer-Go
> Have you trawled through http://senseis.xmp.net/?GoBlogs? I have (briefly). But I haven't found anything. Maybe there aren't any bloggers out there that are also Computer Go programmers? Mick Reiss, but he updates very rarely. http://www.reiss.demon.co.uk/webgo/compgo.htm ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Can Go be solved???... PLEASE help!
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007, Don Dailey wrote: On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 16:21 -0800, Christoph Birk wrote: On Sat, 13 Jan 2007, Don Dailey wrote: One of the theoretical limitations to computing power (which was layed out in someones posts) and I have always understood to be the case, is related to space - the physical size of the universe. The problem with higher dimensions is that they are small AND they do NOT increase the 3-dimensional volume of our universe. Imagine a 2 dimesional (finite) surface and bend it in some way (eg. cylinder) ... even though your 2-dim "universe" exists now in 3 dimensions, it did not increase in area. If a computer can exist in 3 dimensions, couldn't an infinite number of them exist with 1 more dimension? I'm suggesting computers that might exist outside our 3 dimensional space, not confined to our 3 dimensional space. Perhaps there are beings that see our space as flat from their many dimensions and any physical objects they deal with, are infinitely bigger that we can observe. If our universe has more than 3 dimensions (say 11) then we (humans and our computers) already exist in 11 dimensions. We are just not able to recognize this fact. But still this does not increase the volume of the universe. Like bending a flat 2-d surface onto a sphere (and so making it exist in a 3-d "universe") does not increase it's 2-d area, it just creates a volume that can not be used by the 2-d people. Christoph ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Can Go be solved???... PLEASE help!
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007, Jacques Basaldúa wrote: Any coherent higher dimension model should explain which of the three circumstances is not met, how and why and without making any particular dimension different from the others. Something a lot more complicated than just drawing "easy conclusions" from analytic geometry. Of course the "higher" dimensions are way "smaller", otherwise we would see them :-) Seriously, string-theory requires higher dimensions with a very small curvature (they are different from the 3). And you are correct, it gets very complicated. The geometrical examples were just meant as an easy to understand explanation why higher dimension do not increase the 3-d volume of the universe. Christoph___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] the computer go ladder - mogo?
Is the Computer Go Ladder still active? I don't see any change in standings since August 2006, and I suspect that Viking and Mogo would do rather well against many of the current contestants, based upon their results on the CGOS server: http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/go/ladder.html Terry McIntyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] the computer go ladder - mogo?
Does the ladder have any advantage over CGOS in any respect? On 1/17/07, terry mcintyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Is the Computer Go Ladder still active? I don't see any change in standings since August 2006, and I suspect that Viking and Mogo would do rather well against many of the current contestants, based upon their results on the CGOS server: http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/go/ladder.html Terry McIntyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] the computer go ladder - mogo?
It seems far less automatic, so I would think it has disadvantages. Cheers, David On 17, Jan 2007, at 1:45 PM, Chris Fant wrote: Does the ladder have any advantage over CGOS in any respect? On 1/17/07, terry mcintyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Is the Computer Go Ladder still active? I don't see any change in standings since August 2006, and I suspect that Viking and Mogo would do rather well against many of the current contestants, based upon their results on the CGOS server: http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/go/ladder.html Terry McIntyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] the computer go ladder - mogo?
CGOS has many strong points: it automatically schedules games, it has a lot of sample points to drive the ELO ratings, it preserves game records, and it has many participating programs. It also distinguishes between versions of the programs - important to consider when the CGL games span several years. Does anyone know which version of go++ is at the top of the CGL, and which versions of which programs were beaten to accomplish that result? The Computer Go Ladder, on the other hand, includes a number of programs which are not presently represented in the CGOS field. It also attempts to define differences in terms of handicap stones, which is more familiar to most Go players than elo points. On the downside, it appears to depend on a very small set of games, does not preserve all game records, and operates on a glacially slow timescale. Terry McIntyre UNIX for hire software development / systems administration / security 310 630 7453 or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ( text ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message From: David Doshay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: computer-go Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:43:45 PM Subject: Re: [computer-go] the computer go ladder - mogo? It seems far less automatic, so I would think it has disadvantages. Cheers, David On 17, Jan 2007, at 1:45 PM, Chris Fant wrote: > Does the ladder have any advantage over CGOS in any respect? > > On 1/17/07, terry mcintyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Is the Computer Go Ladder still active? I don't see any change in >> standings >> since August 2006, and I suspect that Viking and Mogo would do >> rather well >> against many of the current contestants, based upon their results >> on the >> CGOS server: >> >> http://www.cgl.ucsf.edu/go/ladder.html >> >> Terry McIntyre >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> >> Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. >> Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. >> ___ >> computer-go mailing list >> computer-go@computer-go.org >> http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ >> >> > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
