Help with threads and queues
I am trying to convert my Java code to Objective-C code and I have run into a problem. I have thread, that currently has a socket open and it sits there and send packets of information through the socket. Currently my queue code uses the wait/notifyAll methods in Java to put the thread into a wait state (i.e. not actively checking and using CPU) and to wake it up. The methods look like: void push (String str) { queue.add(str); notifyAll(); } String pop () { while (queue.isEmpty()) { wait(); } return queue.remove(); } How do you do the samething in Cocoa/Objective-C? Paul Franz ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Help with threads and queues
Where xan I find an example of a serial dispatch queue? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 29, 2010, at 11:35 AM, Thomas Clement wrote: Just use a serial dispatch queue (or if you need to run pre-10.6 use an NSOperationQueue with a max concurrent count set to 1) and dispatch operations to the queue whenever you want. The operation passed to the queue should write some data to the socket. Thomas On Apr 29, 2010, at 2:26 PM, Paul Franz wrote: I am trying to convert my Java code to Objective-C code and I have run into a problem. I have thread, that currently has a socket open and it sits there and send packets of information through the socket. Currently my queue code uses the wait/notifyAll methods in Java to put the thread into a wait state (i.e. not actively checking and using CPU) and to wake it up. The methods look like: void push (String str) { queue.add(str); notifyAll(); } String pop () { while (queue.isEmpty()) { wait(); } return queue.remove(); } How do you do the samething in Cocoa/Objective-C? Paul Franz ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/thomascl%40free.fr This email sent to thoma...@free.fr ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Help with threads and queues
Do you know if it is available on the iPad? I think it is because according the Mac Rumors website says so. This is a back end code for a online board game and I am trying to port it over to the iPad. I figured the back end is the best place to start (i.e. avoid UI at the moment which will be a total re-write). Now if we assume that it is. The code goes from having a thread that pulls the data of the queue and pushing over the Internet. To a dispatch queue that calls a function that sends the data. Questions: 1) If the connection fails, can I suspend the processing of items on the queue from within the block? 2) Is there anyway to peek at the queue and find out how many "tasks" are queued up? 3) Is there a Cocoa wrapper for the dispatch code or will I need to create my own? 4) Do the dispatch queues work with Garbage Collection compiled code? Paul Franz On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Dave DeLong wrote: > Whoops, that should've been dispatch_async and not dispatch_queue_async. > > Silly typing code in an email window... > > Dave > > On Apr 29, 2010, at 10:26 AM, Dave DeLong wrote: > >> #import >> >> //somewhere reasonably accessible to your producer: >> dispatch_queue_t mySerialQueue = >> dispatch_queue_create("franz.p.paul.myserialqueue", NULL); >> >> //in your producer: >> id newResource = ; // the thing you want to notifyAll() about >> dispatch_queue_async(mySerialQueue, ^{ >> /** >> do something with newResource here. >> this could mean putting your consumer code in here, or passing the >> resource off to another object, etc >> **/ >> }); >> >> //when you're done producing: >> dispatch_release(mySerialQueue); > > ___ > > Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) > > Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. > Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com > > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/paul.p.franz%40gmail.com > > This email sent to paul.p.fr...@gmail.com > ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Help with threads and queues
Thanks. That looks like what I am looking for. Note: I didn't know that about NSOperationQueue. Paul Franz On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Dave DeLong wrote: > If you're worried about cross-platform compatibility, then use > NSOperationQueue and NSOperations. The fundamental idea is identical > (dispatch_queue = NSOperationQueue, dispatch_block = NSOperation), and on the > platforms that have it, they've been re-written to use Grand Central Dispatch. > > The only major difference is that you'll probably be creating > NSInvocationOperations, which have to invoke a method on a target object, > instead of being given a Block. > > To answer your other questions: > > 1. You can suspend an NSOperationQueue using its "setSuspended:" method. > 2. You can ask an NSOperationQueue for an array of its queued operations > (the "operations" method) > 3. Yes, it's NSOperationQueue. :) > 4. NSOperationQueue sure does. > > Cheers, > > Dave > > On Apr 29, 2010, at 3:41 PM, Paul Franz wrote: > >> Do you know if it is available on the iPad? I think it is because >> according the Mac Rumors website says so. This is a back end code for >> a online board game and I am trying to port it over to the iPad. I >> figured the back end is the best place to start (i.e. avoid UI at the >> moment which will be a total re-write). >> >> Now if we assume that it is. The code goes from having a thread that >> pulls the data of the queue and pushing over the Internet. To a >> dispatch queue that calls a function that sends the data. >> >> Questions: >> >> 1) If the connection fails, can I suspend the processing of items on >> the queue from within the block? >> 2) Is there anyway to peek at the queue and find out how many >> "tasks" are queued up? >> 3) Is there a Cocoa wrapper for the dispatch code or will I need to >> create my own? >> 4) Do the dispatch queues work with Garbage Collection compiled code? >> >> Paul Franz > > ___ > > Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) > > Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. > Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com > > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/paul.p.franz%40gmail.com > > This email sent to paul.p.fr...@gmail.com > ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Help with threads and queues
Oooohh. Cool. Definitely going to get it. Paul Franz On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 10:55 AM, James Bucanek wrote: > Paul Franz <mailto:paul.p.fr...@gmail.com> wrote (Thursday, April 29, 2010 > 5:26 AM -0400): > >> I am trying to convert my Java code to Objective-C code and I have run >> into a problem. > > < clip > >> >> How do you do the samething in Cocoa/Objective-C? > > WARNING: Gratuitous, self-serving, book plug coming up ... > > Paul, > > You might find my book Learn Objective-C for Java Developers (see signature) > helpful. I wrote it for developers just like yourself. > > Among other things, it describes how to set up and perform asynchronous, > event-driven, I/O (which, as others have pointed out, is probably your best > solution in this case). The book includes a sample project that demonstrates > NSOperationQueue, and as a bonus there's an implementation of a thread-safe > FIFO wrapped around an NSArray. > > > > James Bucanek > > Author of Professional Xcode 3 ISBN: 9780470525227 > <http://www.proxcode3.com/> > and Learn Objective-C for Java Developers ISBN: 9781430223696 > <http://objectivec4java.com/> > > ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: irc client with cocoa
I found this one that is a wrapper for the libircclient. It looks light http://www.stupendous.net/projects/irc-client-cocoa-framework/ Paul Franz On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Nick Zitzmann wrote: > > On Jul 27, 2011, at 3:54 AM, David Remacle wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> Is there a class or a small framework for irc client ? > > <http://lmddgtfy.com/?q=irc%20client%20framework> > > Nick Zitzmann > <http://www.chronosnet.com/> > > ___ > > Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) > > Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. > Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com > > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/paul.p.franz%40gmail.com > > This email sent to paul.p.fr...@gmail.com > ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: App Delegate in Document App
You should do it in the MainMenu.xib file. Paul Franz On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 1:46 PM, David Blanton wrote: > In MyDocument.xib I added an object and set its class to AppDelegate, a > subclass of NSObject, in my project. I connected the Application delegate > outlet to this object. > > I implemented > > - (BOOL)applicationShouldOpenUntitledFile:(NSApplication *)sender { return > NO; } > > in AppDelegate but it is never called. > > > > Is this the correct manner to set the application delegate? > > db > ___ > > Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) > > Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. > Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com > > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/paulfranz%40email.com > > This email sent to paulfr...@email.com > ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: GNUstep Kickstarter Project
I am in. Paul Franz On Aug 15, 2013, at 8:02 PM, "Reaves, Timothy" wrote: > No, not really. > > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf < > lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de> wrote: > >> Hi list, >> >> I've got this from the lead developer of GNUstep, maybe some of you are >> interested in this. >> >> cheers, >> >>Lars >> >> Anfang der weitergeleiteten E-Mail: >> >>> Von: Gregory Casamento >>> Datum: 12. August 2013 22:13:54 MESZ >>> An: Discuss-gnustep Discuss >>> Betreff: GNUstep Kickstarter Project >>> >>> Hey guys, I've launched a kickstarter project in the hopes of getting >> some time to work exclusively on GNUstep in order to try to address some of >> the issues we have surrounding API completeness, documentation issues, >> etc..., here it is: >>> >>> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/203272607/gnustep-project >>> >>> Thanks, GC >>> -- >>> Gregory Casamento >>> Open Logic Corporation, Principal Consultant >>> yahoo/skype: greg_casamento, aol: gjcasa >>> (240)274-9630 (Cell) >>> http://www.gnustep.org >>> http://heronsperch.blogspot.com >>> ___ >>> Discuss-gnustep mailing list >>> discuss-gnus...@gnu.org >>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss-gnustep >> >> >> ___ >> >> Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) >> >> Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. >> Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com >> >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/treaves%40silverfieldstech.com >> >> This email sent to trea...@silverfieldstech.com > ___ > > Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) > > Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. > Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com > > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/paul.p.franz%40gmail.com > > This email sent to paul.p.fr...@gmail.com ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: 64-bit iOS
Should be interesting to see how this plays out. When it comes to Java, when you switch from a 32-bit JVM to a 64-bit JVM there is a 10% penalty doing so. The main reason has to do with pointers. All pointers double in size. The effect might be less in a Objective-C program. Paul Franz On Sep 10, 2013, at 5:47 PM, Tom Davie wrote: > > On 10 Sep 2013, at 23:30, Jean-Daniel Dupas wrote: > >> >> For ARM, 64 bit matters because the instruction set has been updated to >> provider better performances. >> >> I just hope the performance boost provided by this architecture change will >> be enough to balance the slow-down due to the increase of instruction and >> pointer size. > > Note, this was actually more significant on x86, where most of the mess > caused by CISC (like having bugger all registers) got sorted out. > > Tom Davie > ___ > > Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) > > Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. > Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com > > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/paul.p.franz%40gmail.com > > This email sent to paul.p.fr...@gmail.com ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Custom Cocoa Component/Control
I know this is a noob question but I do not know where to look. I come for a Java background. So I know what to do there, but I look at Cocoa and I have no clue where to start since the object model is quite a bit different. Should I create a sub-class of NSControl or do something else? I want to have a bunch of icons (like the Finder images including the text underneath it) in a window. These would be used to traverse a hierarchy of objects (i.e. double click and it shows another list of icons). Originally, I was going to implement this all in my NSView class. But I was thinking that this does not seem to be the correct way implementing it. I looked and found something about "Subclassing NSControl" (URL: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/ControlCell/Tasks/SubclassingNSControl.html ) but I am not sure if this is the correct approach. If so, what are the methods I need to override to make sure that the size is maintained? The control/component will need to react to mouse clicks but the NSView will be handling the dragging of the position of this control/component. Paul Franz ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Custom Cocoa Component/Control
Mike, So I should use NSBrowser or an NSCollectionView to manage the different icons that will be in the window. But to do this, do I need to subclass the NSControl or the NSCell or both or will the NSCollectionView/NSBrowser handle the draw of the icons/images w/text? Paul Franz Mike Abdullah wrote: Trying to recreate this much behaviour yourself is almost certainly a bad idea. Instead, look into NSBrowser or NSCollectionView. Mike. On 20 Jan 2009, at 03:16, Paul Franz wrote: I know this is a noob question but I do not know where to look. I come for a Java background. So I know what to do there, but I look at Cocoa and I have no clue where to start since the object model is quite a bit different. Should I create a sub-class of NSControl or do something else? I want to have a bunch of icons (like the Finder images including the text underneath it) in a window. These would be used to traverse a hierarchy of objects (i.e. double click and it shows another list of icons). Originally, I was going to implement this all in my NSView class. But I was thinking that this does not seem to be the correct way implementing it. I looked and found something about "Subclassing NSControl" (URL: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/ControlCell/Tasks/SubclassingNSControl.html ) but I am not sure if this is the correct approach. If so, what are the methods I need to override to make sure that the size is maintained? The control/component will need to react to mouse clicks but the NSView will be handling the dragging of the position of this control/component. Paul Franz ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/cocoadev%40mikeabdullah.net This email sent to cocoa...@mikeabdullah.net ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Custom Cocoa Component/Control
Can a custom NSControl/NSCell combo be used in a normal NSView? Paul Franz Scott Ribe wrote: You probably need a custom NSCell subclass, and you'll set that to be the cell class used by the browser. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Custom Cocoa Component/Control
Thanks. I will read that. Paul Franz Shawn Erickson wrote: On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 6:33 PM, Paul Franz wrote: Can a custom NSControl/NSCell combo be used in a normal NSView? Yes. This type of question implies you may want to dig a little more deeply in the view documentation. http://developer.apple.com/DOCUMENTATION/Cocoa/Conceptual/CocoaViewsGuide/index.html -Shawn ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Creating Subclass in Core Data
I have a simple class hierarchy defined in Model for the Core Data Entity: Class: AbstractClass (Abstract Class is checked as abstract Parent Class: None Attributes: Name Children Class: Class1 Parent Class: AbstractClass Attributes: None Class: Class2 Parent Class: AbstractClass Attributes: Description Cost How do I create a subclass of Class1 or Class2 instead of the abstract class AbstractClass? I have created a NSTreeController in IB. The Attributes tab for the NSTreeController, the Key Paths (Children) is set to "Children" and Object Controller (Mode) is set to "Entity" with the Entity Name is set to "AbtractClass". I have a NSOutlineView which is bound to this NSTreeController. And a "New" button to create a new entity is bound to the "add" method of the NSTreeController and a "New Child" button to create a new child is bound to the "addChild" method of the NSTreeController. It seems to work. But I have no idea what types of entities are being created. My assumption is that they are of type "AbstractClass". Paul Franz ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: De-Mystifying NSCell
Kyle, Thank you for an awesome video. Paul Franz Ken Worley wrote: VERY well done and informative. Thanks! Ken On Mar 23, 2009, at 3:10 AM, Kyle Sluder wrote: Hi all, I've noticed recently a few people have posted to the list in a state of uncertainty regarding NSCell, particularly in the context of NSTableView. I was in much the same boat when I started out with Cocoa; it takes a few runs through it before the scheme starts to make sense. I put together a short video to try to explain the rationale and mechanisms of NSCell: http://www.cs.loyola.edu/~ksluder/NSCell.mov . If you're confused about why NSCell exists and how it's used inside NSTableView, I hope that my video is able to shine a bit of light. If not, I hope I don't confuse you even more. If you like or dislike the video, please do let me know. Thanks, --Kyle Sluder ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: 64-bit iOS
Note: this was just added 2 years ago. So it is relatively a recent change. Yes, most java developers in the enterprise are still using Java 6 or earlier. Sent from my iPad On Sep 11, 2013, at 2:44 AM, Jean-Daniel Dupas wrote: > This is the contrary. In Obj-c all pointers are effectively double size, but > in Java, they are not. > > See “Compressed oops" at > http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/vm/performance-enhancements-7.html > > > Le 11 sept. 2013 à 00:18, Paul Franz a écrit : > >> Should be interesting to see how this plays out. When it comes to Java, when >> you switch from a 32-bit JVM to a 64-bit JVM there is a 10% penalty doing >> so. The main reason has to do with pointers. All pointers double in size. >> The effect might be less in a Objective-C program. >> >> Paul Franz >> >> On Sep 10, 2013, at 5:47 PM, Tom Davie wrote: >> >>> >>> On 10 Sep 2013, at 23:30, Jean-Daniel Dupas wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> For ARM, 64 bit matters because the instruction set has been updated to >>>> provider better performances. >>>> >>>> I just hope the performance boost provided by this architecture change >>>> will be enough to balance the slow-down due to the increase of instruction >>>> and pointer size. >>> >>> Note, this was actually more significant on x86, where most of the mess >>> caused by CISC (like having bugger all registers) got sorted out. >>> >>> Tom Davie >>> ___ >>> >>> Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) >>> >>> Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. >>> Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com >>> >>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/paul.p.franz%40gmail.com >>> >>> This email sent to paul.p.fr...@gmail.com > > -- Jean-Daniel > > > > ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com