Re: Stus-List Tell me about the 35 MKIII-CB
Here's my take on the centerboard: We generally drop the board as soon as we are in deep enough water to ensure we won't touch bottom. Here in West Florida, touching bottom is a real and present danger as you go in & out of harbors, and even in the intracoastal. To have anything more than 5' of draft here is far less than ideal, and will limit your harbor choices. Our centerboard is very heavy, and not only requires the winch to raise it, but the low-speed function is needed as it reaches the top of the board travel. Our harbor fouls bottoms pretty quickly, but our board has never been stuck. That said, the boat sat for =/- 7 years with very limited use in Marco Island before we bought her, and we had to pry the centerboard down a little during the survey. Our biggest concern is that of cable maintenance (which so far we have no real experience with), and braking the cable, which could result in centerboard damage or the inability to return to our dock until such time as we found a way to pull it up with other lines & winches, which given the shape of our board might prove problematic. Finally, she points like crazy with the board down! That said, little of this may apply to your prospect boat... Bruce Whitmore 1994 C&C 37/40+, "Astralis", Madiera Beach, FL (847) 404-5092 (mobile) bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net From: jackbrennan via CnC-List To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: jackbrennan Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 6:11 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Tell me about the 35 MKIII-CB You'll love the shallow draft in Florida. It opens the possibility of great cruising that would be blocked to you with a 6-foot draft. It's increasingly common for centerboard owners to replace the ss cable and Nicropress fitting with Amsteel Blue or a similar high-tech line of the same diameter. On my current boat (not a C&C), I used an Amsteel Blue line for seven years on the CB before replacing it in June. The rigger said I wasted my money; the line was like brand-new. The line is secured to the CB by making an eye and putting a few wraps through it. The tricky part is taping the line to the cable and easing it through. Jack BrennanFormer C&C 25Shanachie, 1974 Bristol 30Tierra Verde, Fl. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab®|PRO Original message From: Sean Richardson via CnC-List Date:01/16/2018 1:37 PM (GMT-05:00) To: CnC-List Cc: Sean Richardson Subject: Stus-List Tell me about the 35 MKIII-CB Calling on the collective C&C brain trust! I’m giving serious consideration to a 35 MKIII CB and wouldappreciate any advice on what to look out for with the MKIII in general as wellspecifics of the center board version if anyone has any. The boat is single owner freshwater and by all accounts sofar appears to be in very good condition. She checks off many of therequirement boxes for our next boat but I’m a little torn on the CB with mainconcerns being how it effects performance/stability as well as requiredmaintenance. I’ve heard the center board version is quite tender. Weeventually plan to sail out the St. Lawrence to the Maritimes one summer, parkthe boat, then return the following season to continue on down the US Eastcoast (ICW) to Florida then on to the Bahamas. The board up shallow draft willbe good for the ICW and Bahamas portion but how would this boat fare in themore challenging conditions of the St Lawrence and Maritimes? My other concern is access to the centerboard area for maintenance. I would assume the slot and pivot area willrequire frequent attention to clean marine growth and avoid jamming the boardin either the up or down position. And how difficult would it be if one had toreplace the SS lifting strop with the boat in the water? The more I think about the center board the more troubles Isee down the road.___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Tell me about the 35 MKIII-CB
1+ on cb issues although I have not moved from SS to dyneema. I have had my cb pennant break with the board up. With a weighted board, it is likely that if the pennant lets go you will not have to worry about raising it with winches, properly deployed lines, etc. Your board will hit the trunk with such force( ~ 1000 lbs falling ~ 5 ft) that as it pivots on its pin and then strikes the forward inside edge of the trunk, its momentum will be so high that the board will be destroyed and at best, you will be left with fiberglass shards, a broken pennant and hopefully the cb pin. Been there, done that although my original pennant did 'last' for ~ 16 yrs. I now replace it at 5 yr intervals whether it needs it or not--getting to it for inspection is so costly that once inspected, the cost of a new pennant and replacing it is only a small additional cost. FWIW Charlie Nelson Water Phantom 1995 C&C 36XL/kcb Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 18, 2018, at 10:01 AM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List > wrote: > > Here's my take on the centerboard: > > We generally drop the board as soon as we are in deep enough water to ensure > we won't touch bottom. Here in West Florida, touching bottom is a real and > present danger as you go in & out of harbors, and even in the intracoastal. > To have anything more than 5' of draft here is far less than ideal, and will > limit your harbor choices. Our centerboard is very heavy, and not only > requires the winch to raise it, but the low-speed function is needed as it > reaches the top of the board travel. > > Our harbor fouls bottoms pretty quickly, but our board has never been stuck. > That said, the boat sat for =/- 7 years with very limited use in Marco Island > before we bought her, and we had to pry the centerboard down a little during > the survey. > > Our biggest concern is that of cable maintenance (which so far we have no > real experience with), and braking the cable, which could result in > centerboard damage or the inability to return to our dock until such time as > we found a way to pull it up with other lines & winches, which given the > shape of our board might prove problematic. > > Finally, she points like crazy with the board down! > > That said, little of this may apply to your prospect boat... > > Bruce Whitmore > 1994 C&C 37/40+, "Astralis", Madiera Beach, FL > (847) 404-5092 (mobile) > bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net > > > From: jackbrennan via CnC-List > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: jackbrennan > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 6:11 PM > Subject: Re: Stus-List Tell me about the 35 MKIII-CB > > You'll love the shallow draft in Florida. It opens the possibility of great > cruising that would be blocked to you with a 6-foot draft. > > It's increasingly common for centerboard owners to replace the ss cable and > Nicropress fitting with Amsteel Blue or a similar high-tech line of the same > diameter. > > On my current boat (not a C&C), I used an Amsteel Blue line for seven years > on the CB before replacing it in June. The rigger said I wasted my money; the > line was like brand-new. > > The line is secured to the CB by making an eye and putting a few wraps > through it. The tricky part is taping the line to the cable and easing it > through. > > Jack Brennan > Former C&C 25 > Shanachie, 1974 Bristol 30 > Tierra Verde, Fl. > > > > > > > > Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab®|PRO > > > Original message > From: Sean Richardson via CnC-List > Date:01/16/2018 1:37 PM (GMT-05:00) > To: CnC-List > Cc: Sean Richardson > Subject: Stus-List Tell me about the 35 MKIII-CB > > Calling on the collective C&C brain trust! > > I’m giving serious consideration to a 35 MKIII CB and would appreciate any > advice on what to look out for with the MKIII in general as well specifics of > the center board version if anyone has any. > > The boat is single owner freshwater and by all accounts so far appears to be > in very good condition. She checks off many of the requirement boxes for our > next boat but I’m a little torn on the CB with main concerns being how it > effects performance/stability as well as required maintenance. > > I’ve heard the center board version is quite tender. We eventually plan to > sail out the St. Lawrence to the Maritimes one summer, park the boat, then > return the following season to continue on down the US East coast (ICW) to > Florida then on to the Bahamas. The board up shallow draft will be good for > the ICW and Bahamas portion but how would this boat fare in the more > challenging conditions of the St Lawrence and Maritimes? > > My other concern is access to the centerboard area for maintenance. I would > assume the slot and pivot area will require frequent attention to clean > marine growth and avoid jamming the board in either the up or down position. > And how difficult would it be if one had to replace the SS lifting strop with > the boat in the water? >
Re: Stus-List Keel bolt torque
Ok so tomorrow is the short haul for keel bolt torque. Tonight I collected all of my tools at the boat and did a dry run by taking a few turns off of each nut and then retorquing to about 75%. I wanted to make sure that any issues with tools and access were ironed out early. Everything worked fine. I definitely think that using and extension on the output of the torque multiplier is the best way to go. Any amount of separation between the multiplier and the wrench causes bizarre twisting actions that are hard to stabilize. Keep the wrench directly attached to the multiplier. I measured the length of the extension I would need as 13" and ended up having get one that was 16". Glad I did cause it barely gets the multiplier head clear of the floor. All the nuts came loose and I feel comfortable that tomorrow they won't throw me and curves. I'll clean, lube, and reinstall them one at a time while on the hard. All of them took considerably less than their torque rating to loosen which indicates to me that they were indeed loose. This reinforces my decision to do the work which is cathartic because in the back up my mind I kept saying, "Everything seems fine, you're just going to make things worse." Oddly the 4 largest nuts were by far the easiest to loosen. It is a little disconcerting since I don't understand what the implications are. I'll let everyone know how things go tomorrow. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Jan 2, 2018 3:18 PM, "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" wrote: > Ok Guys, > Since I have the mast out, this provides the rare opportunity to access > ALL of the keel bolts. I've measured each of the bolt and nut diameters > and checked the archives for torque specs. I intend to buy a toque > multiplier and the appropriate sized sockets. I think I can do it for less > than the yard is going to charge and I'll come out of it with some tools. > I'll also be able to tell myself that it was done correctly. > > That being said it sounds like the best practices are are follows: > - be on the hard > - loosen the bolts one at a time, clean, and lubricate with tef-gel > - reinstall and torque at progressively higher levels. > > I was unable to find the torque spec for my 1.5" bolt in the website but > Ken Heaton cited 600lbs in one of his past responses. > > Keel bolts (fwd to aft): > Nut stud torque > 1 - 1 1/2 (38mm)1 (25mm) 350 > 2 - 2 3/16 (56mm) 1 1/2 (38mm) 600? > 3 - 2 3/16 (56mm) 1 1/2 (38mm) 600? > 4 - 2 3/16 (56mm) 1 1/2 (38mm) 600? > 5 - 1 7/8 (47.5mm)1 1/4 (32mm) 450 > 6 - 2 3/16 (56mm) 1 1/2 (38mm) 600? > 7 - 1 1/2 (38mm)1 (25mm) 350 > 8 - 3/4 (19.5mm)1/2 (13mm) 80 > > > *Anything I'm missing?* > > > Thanks, > > Josh Muckley > S/V Sea Hawk > 1989 C&C 37+ > Solomons, MD > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Stus-List C&C 30 Mast Step
My mast step stringers were in very bad shape and the mast plate was dropping into the bilge so I'm replacing the step this winter. I have a few questions... 1). Terminology wise, are the lateral plywood supports considered the mast step or stringers? Or is the heavy cast iron plate that sits on top of them called the mast step? 2). I've read the very helpful documents about others who have taken on this task. They have used GPO-3 or other non wood materials. I would like to use epoxy coated hardwood because I'm much more comfortable shaping the wood to fit in. If it lasts 20 years I'll be more that happy. The original plywood lasted 40 so I would think it should. My question is, what type of wood? I was thinking White oak or Mahogany. 3). How important is it that the 3 new pieces go all the way to the keel? Of the 3 current supports only the forward most support went all the way to the base of the bilge, the other two had enough space between them and the bottom of the bilge to pass a large diameter bilge hose through. I'm not sure if that was original or if one of the PO's modified them to run the hose. There were many failed repairs to the original structure. 4). I'm thinking about putting an automatic bilge pump in between the pieces under the mast. The current setup only had a hose running in there to a manual whale pump. Is it a good idea to put a small automatic pump in there? Thanks, Collin1974 C&C 30 MK1LibraBaltimore___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List C&C 30 Mast Step
Collin, If you haven't seen it check out Paul's write up on his own mast step rebuild. As for epoxy coated hardwood I suggest G10 instead. Or at least a some other 1/2 inch FRP board similar to what Paul used. http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/MastStep Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Jan 18, 2018 10:50 PM, "Collin Ferguson via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: My mast step stringers were in very bad shape and the mast plate was dropping into the bilge so I'm replacing the step this winter. I have a few questions... 1). Terminology wise, are the lateral plywood supports considered the mast step or stringers? Or is the heavy cast iron plate that sits on top of them called the mast step? 2). I've read the very helpful documents about others who have taken on this task. They have used GPO-3 or other non wood materials. I would like to use epoxy coated hardwood because I'm much more comfortable shaping the wood to fit in. If it lasts 20 years I'll be more that happy. The original plywood lasted 40 so I would think it should. My question is, what type of wood? I was thinking White oak or Mahogany. 3). How important is it that the 3 new pieces go all the way to the keel? Of the 3 current supports only the forward most support went all the way to the base of the bilge, the other two had enough space between them and the bottom of the bilge to pass a large diameter bilge hose through. I'm not sure if that was original or if one of the PO's modified them to run the hose. There were many failed repairs to the original structure. 4). I'm thinking about putting an automatic bilge pump in between the pieces under the mast. The current setup only had a hose running in there to a manual whale pump. Is it a good idea to put a small automatic pump in there? Thanks, Collin 1974 C&C 30 MK1 Libra Baltimore ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List C&C 30 Mast Step
Hi Collin, responses inline. Cheers, Randy > On Jan 18, 2018, at 8:49 PM, Collin Ferguson via CnC-List > wrote: > > My mast step stringers were in very bad shape and the mast plate was dropping > into the bilge so I'm replacing the step this winter. I have a few > questions... > > 1). Terminology wise, are the lateral plywood supports considered the mast > step or stringers? Or is the heavy cast iron plate that sits on top of them > called the mast step? My understanding of the terminology is that the lateral plywood pieces are called the mast step supports. In my boat (C&C 30 MK I hull #7, built September 1972) what sits on top of the supports is an oak block about 2” thick, 8” wide, and 16” long. That is the mast step. Mounted on top of the mast step is an aluminum box that the mast sits in, i.e. the mast box. > 2). I've read the very helpful documents about others who have taken on this > task. They have used GPO-3 or other non wood materials. I would like to use > epoxy coated hardwood because I'm much more comfortable shaping the wood to > fit in. If it lasts 20 years I'll be more that happy. The original plywood > lasted 40 so I would think it should. My question is, what type of wood? I > was thinking White oak or Mahogany. I’d think you’d want something super hard. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test. I considered Ipe and Cumaru for new cabintop handrails for Grenadine, but went with traditional teak in the end. Both Ipe and Cumaru are very hard woods, oily which is good for water repellency, and less expensive than teak. But caveat emptor, I’m not expert on woods and woodworking. > 3). How important is it that the 3 new pieces go all the way to the keel? Of > the 3 current supports only the forward most support went all the way to the > base of the bilge, the other two had enough space between them and the bottom > of the bilge to pass a large diameter bilge hose through. I'm not sure if > that was original or if one of the PO's modified them to run the hose. There > were many failed repairs to the original structure. I believe the design intent was for the weight and compressive load of the mast to be borne by the bilge shoulders, not by the top of the keel stub. Therefore I don’t think it’s super-important for the new supports to rest on the top of the keel stub. Grenadine’s original supports had little contact with the top of the keel stub, and her new supports have none. And it’s important to leave space below the supports for water to come forward to that lowest sump under the mast step (and for bilge plumbing to pass through). There’s a term for that space, drain holes effectively, but I forget the term. > > 4). I'm thinking about putting an automatic bilge pump in between the pieces > under the mast. The current setup only had a hose running in there to a > manual whale pump. Is it a good idea to put a small automatic pump in there? > Yeah I put an 1100gph Rule in there on my boat. Described in https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTUlhmbUs4YTZlZnM > Thanks, > > Collin > 1974 C&C 30 MK1 > Libra > Baltimore > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and > every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
