Re: Stus-List Winterizing Atomic 4

[Rich Winslow via CnC-List]

Rich Winslow
Before moving to warmer clime, I removed the thermostat to drain the engine and 
refill with anti freeze (engine did not have intercooler).  This gave me the 
opportunity to inspect the thermostat and one year, I noticed a spring was 
broken, so good preventative maintenance.


I removed batteries and rested them on 2 x 4's in my heated basement-  I 
understand wet cell batteries lose their charge if left in the cold, and when 
discharged, they can freeze.


I also sprayed fogging oil into the cylinders directly through the spark plug 
holes.  You should be able to purchase it at an auto parts supply store.  It's 
inexpensive and a can lasts for years.  My Atomic 4 had an updraft carb. and 
there is no way to pour oil "down" it.  Plus, fogging oil is made for this 
purpose, motor oil isn't.  Running the engine while pouring oil into the intake 
would produce a lot of carbon, which might eventually gum it up, not to mention 
the air pollution burning oil causes.


-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-request 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Sat, Nov 1, 2014 12:16 pm
Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 106, Issue 2



I own a 1979 34 C&C which has an Atomic 4 engine. 

I decided to winterize my boat myself this year rather than hire someone to do 
it. I tried to follow the instructions in the manual for draining the engine 
and 
putting in plumber's anti freeze. 

 Also, I would like to know what other owners of C&C's with Atomic 4 engines do 
when they winterize in terms of taking out the batteries or if they disconnect 
them etc.  Also, what else should be done to winterize my boat other than 
following the Atomic 4 manual and the C&C Owners's Manual. Do most owners "fog" 
the engine by pouring oil into the carburetor. If so, do they use SAE HD 30 
engine oil. 

Any advice would be very helpful.

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Re: Stus-List Winterizing Atomic 4

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Is there no way to shoot the fogging oil directly into the carb throat?

Most fogging oils direct to run the engine up to temp, then take the air
cleaner off and spray the fogging oil in the throat for ~5sec.  Immediately
stop the engine while still spraying.  Then remove the spark plugs and put
a spray in each cylinder.  Roll the engine slowly by hand.  Reinstall the
plugs (antiseize, grease on the boots and torque).  Shut off the fuel and
drain the carb.

Josh
On Nov 2, 2014 8:56 AM, "Rich Winslow via CnC-List" 
wrote:

>
>
> Rich Winslow
> Before moving to warmer clime, I removed the thermostat to drain the
> engine and refill with anti freeze (engine did not have intercooler).  This
> gave me the opportunity to inspect the thermostat and one year, I noticed a
> spring was broken, so good preventative maintenance.
>
>  I removed batteries and rested them on 2 x 4's in my heated basement-  I
> understand wet cell batteries lose their charge if left in the cold, and
> when discharged, they can freeze.
>
>  I also sprayed fogging oil into the cylinders directly through the spark
> plug holes.  You should be able to purchase it at an auto parts supply
> store.  It's inexpensive and a can lasts for years.  My Atomic 4 had an
> updraft carb. and there is no way to pour oil "down" it.  Plus, fogging oil
> is made for this purpose, motor oil isn't.  Running the engine while
> pouring oil into the intake would produce a lot of carbon, which might
> eventually gum it up, not to mention the air pollution burning oil causes.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cnc-list-request 
> To: cnc-list 
> Sent: Sat, Nov 1, 2014 12:16 pm
> Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 106, Issue 2
>
>
> I own a 1979 34 C&C which has an Atomic 4 engine.
>
> I decided to winterize my boat myself this year rather than hire someone to do
> it. I tried to follow the instructions in the manual for draining the engine 
> and
> putting in plumber's anti freeze.
>
>  Also, I would like to know what other owners of C&C's with Atomic 4 engines 
> do
> when they winterize in terms of taking out the batteries or if they disconnect
> them etc.  Also, what else should be done to winterize my boat other than
> following the Atomic 4 manual and the C&C Owners's Manual. Do most owners 
> "fog"
> the engine by pouring oil into the carburetor. If so, do they use SAE HD 30
> engine oil.
>
> Any advice would be very helpful.
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 
>
> --
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Winterizing Atomic 4

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

Hi Rich,and all,

 "I understand wet cell batteries lose their charge if left in the cold"  This
is pretty much exactly backward.

Wet storage batteries hold their charge better, longer, the colder it is.
Fully charge them, pull one cable off each battery so there is no
possibility of discharge through ship's systems and leave them where they
are.

Top them up with the charger in the spring when it is warm and you're good
to go.  They won't need much.


Supporting article: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/self_discharge

or this one: http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/carfaq13.htm

Quote: "Store in a cold dry place, but not so that it will freeze..."
 Which, if you have a fully charged battery is about 77 degrees below
zero...

Approximate
State-of-Charge
(SoC)

Approximate
Depth-of-Discharge
(DoD)

Approximate Electrolyte Freeze Point

100%

0%

-77°F
(-67°C)

75%

25%

-35°F
(-37°C)

Ken H.

On 2 November 2014 09:56, Rich Winslow via CnC-List 
wrote:

>
>
> Rich Winslow
>
>  I removed batteries and rested them on 2 x 4's in my heated basement-  I
> understand wet cell batteries lose their charge if left in the cold, and
> when discharged, they can freeze.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: cnc-list-request 
> To: cnc-list 
> Sent: Sat, Nov 1, 2014 12:16 pm
> Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 106, Issue 2
>
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Re: Stus-List surfing c&c INFERNO

[Robert Mazza via CnC-List]

Hi Jimmy,

Good to talk with you again. You mentioned *Inferno II* being in the San
Francisco area. Do you know precisely where she is? We have been trying to
track her down.

I think most people remember that *Inferno II* debuted in the 1968 SORC
which was won overall by *Red Jacket*. However, *Inferno* went on the rocks
when entering Lucaya and pounded there all night. Most observers were
shocked that she was towed off next morning without taking on one drop of
water. She was towed back to Florida for repairs, but never did achieve the
celebrity status of *Red Jacket*. However, what she did do was demonstrate
the strength and durability of cored fiberglass construction. Charlie
Morgan has a good quote on the subject in "Heart of Glass".

Rob

On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 2:20 PM, jimmy kelly via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> one of most interesting c&c s  ,was c&c  Inferno A CUSTOM 54FT  built
>  late 60s for chicago sailor ,white hull radical fin ,fairly full stern
> ..great planer   with 25kts wind  and large following seas could get up
> &go..was  passed by her while crewing on twelve meter heritageINFERNO
> was moved to west coast where  she was particularily in her element in san
> francisco area...largest yacht i every saw plane &surf for extended periods
> of timestill quite a memorable experience...
>
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Re: Stus-List WINDWARD PASSAGE

[Robert Mazza via CnC-List]

Jimmy,

Ted Jones has a great article in the latest issue of Professional
Boatbuilder magazine on Alan Gurney entitled "Passage Maker", which quite
naturally talks about *Windward Passage *at length.

By the way, Guy Gurney is the noted marine photographer who lives in
Connecticut, whom I met several years ago, and like you, I asked "Didn't
you design Windward Passage?" I got the feeling he had been asked that
question several times previously, so handled it with good grace! The C&C
66 *Phantom, *owned by Ralph Ryder*, *was an early C&C IOR design which I
think debuted at the 1973 SORC. She was also one of Big George's last
designs before he took on the Presidency of C&C and handed the design
responsibilities over too Rob Ball.

I know, too much information!

Rob

On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 2:39 PM, jimmy kelly via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> although not a c&c  speaking of large yachts, a 70 plus ft wood yacht
>  designed by Guy Gurney, WINDWARD PASSAGE could  surf for extended periods
> given the right conditions.she SURFED past  both RUNNINGTIDE a s&s 63,,&
> C&C 66 PHANTOM DURING a race  inSORC in florida...stern configuration
> &right wave & wind conditions  seem to dictate  although did not win
> because of handicap...
>
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Re: Stus-List WINDWARD PASSAGE

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

Is it true that the keel for Passage was cast in the sand on a caribbean beach? 
 Or urban myth?
Ron
Wild Cheri
C&C 30-1
STL


On Sun, 11/2/14, Robert Mazza via CnC-List  wrote:

 Subject: Re: Stus-List WINDWARD PASSAGE
 To: "jimmy kelly" , "C&C Mailing List" 

 Date: Sunday, November 2, 2014, 11:00 AM
 
 Jimmy, 
 Ted Jones has a great article in the
 latest issue of Professional Boatbuilder magazine on Alan
 Gurney entitled "Passage Maker", which quite
 naturally talks about Windward Passage at length.
 
 By the way, Guy
 Gurney is the noted marine photographer who lives in
 Connecticut, whom I met several years ago, and like you,
 I asked "Didn't you design Windward Passage?"
 I got the feeling he had been asked that question several
 times previously, so handled it with good grace! The C&C
 66 Phantom, owned by Ralph Ryder, was an
 early C&C IOR design which I think debuted at the 1973
 SORC. She was also one of Big George's last designs
 before he took on the Presidency of C&C and handed the
 design responsibilities over too Rob Ball. 
 I know, too much
 information!
 Rob
 On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 2:39
 PM, jimmy kelly via CnC-List 
 wrote:
 although not a
 c&c  speaking of large yachts, a 70 plus ft wood yacht
  designed by Guy Gurney, WINDWARD PASSAGE could  surf for
 extended periods given the right conditions.she SURFED past
  both RUNNINGTIDE a s&s 63,,& C&C 66 PHANTOM
 DURING a race  inSORC in florida...stern configuration
 &right wave & wind conditions  seem to dictate
  although did not win because of handicap...
 
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Stus-List Winterizing Atomic 4

[Robert Abbott via CnC-List]

Ken
As proof of what you say, this will be the seventh (7) winter our Great 
Northern Group 27 batteries will have spent on the boat.  As you said, 
get a good charge before being disconnected.  Mine get the occasional 
boost through the winter as I visit the boat occasionally but I don't 
think it mattersjust gives me an excuse to go to the boat and hang 
out and have a beer.


And at 55 lbs. per battery, why would you want to lift those off the 
boat and move them for no logical reason?


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 -84
Halifax, N.S.



On 2014/11/02 12:21 PM, Ken Heaton via CnC-List wrote:

Hi Rich,and all,

 "I understand wet cell batteries lose their charge if left in the 
cold" This is pretty much exactly backward.


Wet storage batteries hold their charge better, longer, the colder it 
is.  Fully charge them, pull one cable off each battery so there is no 
possibility of discharge through ship's systems and leave them where 
they are.


Top them up with the charger in the spring when it is warm and you're 
good to go.  They won't need much.



Supporting article: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/self_discharge

or this one: http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/carfaq13.htm

Quote: "Store in a cold dry place, but not so that it will freeze..." 
 Which, if you have a fully charged battery is about 77 degrees below 
zero...


Approximate
State-of-Charge
(SoC)



Approximate
Depth-of-Discharge
(DoD)



Approximate Electrolyte Freeze Point

100%



0%



-77°F
(-67°C)

75%



25%



-35°F
(-37°C)


Ken H.

On 2 November 2014 09:56, Rich Winslow via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:




Rich Winslow

I removed batteries and rested them on 2 x 4's in my heated
basement-  I understand wet cell batteries lose their charge if
left in the cold, and when discharged, they can freeze.


-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-request mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com>>
To: cnc-list mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Sat, Nov 1, 2014 12:16 pm
Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 106, Issue 2



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Re: Stus-List Winterizing Atomic 4

[Burt Stratton via CnC-List]

+1 for Ken 

 

In my experience Ken is right on the money. I never store my batteries inside 
during the winter. I put them up fully charged and disconnected and they are 
always near fully charged in the spring. They also last longer than their 
warranties. Been doing that for 40 years. There is also of course science to 
back up that statement. It is a waste of time and significant energy to remove 
your batteries from the boat for the winter. 

  

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ken Heaton 
via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2014 11:21 AM
To: Rich Winslow; cnc-list
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing Atomic 4

 

Hi Rich,and all,

 

 "I understand wet cell batteries lose their charge if left in the cold"  This 
is pretty much exactly backward.

 

Wet storage batteries hold their charge better, longer, the colder it is.  
Fully charge them, pull one cable off each battery so there is no possibility 
of discharge through ship's systems and leave them where they are.

 

Top them up with the charger in the spring when it is warm and you're good to 
go.  They won't need much.

 

 

Supporting article: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/self_discharge

 

or this one: http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/carfaq13.htm

 

Quote: "Store in a cold dry place, but not so that it will freeze..."  Which, 
if you have a fully charged battery is about 77 degrees below zero...

 


Approximate
State-of-Charge
(SoC)

Approximate
Depth-of-Discharge
(DoD)

Approximate Electrolyte Freeze Point


100%

0%

-77°F
(-67°C)


75%

25%

-35°F
(-37°C)

 

Ken H.

 

On 2 November 2014 09:56, Rich Winslow via CnC-List  
wrote:

 

Rich Winslow

 

I removed batteries and rested them on 2 x 4's in my heated basement-  I 
understand wet cell batteries lose their charge if left in the cold, and when 
discharged, they can freeze.

 

 

-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-request 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Sat, Nov 1, 2014 12:16 pm
Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 106, Issue 2

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Re: Stus-List Winterizing Atomic 4

[Burt Stratton via CnC-List]

Bernard. If you have questions just give them a call. Looks like there are a 
lot of options for your thermostat and housing.

 

www.  moyermarine.com/

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ken Heaton 
via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2014 11:21 AM
To: Rich Winslow; cnc-list
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing Atomic 4

 

Hi Rich,and all,

 

 "I understand wet cell batteries lose their charge if left in the cold"  This 
is pretty much exactly backward.

 

Wet storage batteries hold their charge better, longer, the colder it is.  
Fully charge them, pull one cable off each battery so there is no possibility 
of discharge through ship's systems and leave them where they are.

 

Top them up with the charger in the spring when it is warm and you're good to 
go.  They won't need much.

 

 

Supporting article: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/self_discharge

 

or this one: http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/carfaq13.htm

 

Quote: "Store in a cold dry place, but not so that it will freeze..."  Which, 
if you have a fully charged battery is about 77 degrees below zero...

 


Approximate
State-of-Charge
(SoC)

Approximate
Depth-of-Discharge
(DoD)

Approximate Electrolyte Freeze Point


100%

0%

-77°F
(-67°C)


75%

25%

-35°F
(-37°C)

 

Ken H.

 

On 2 November 2014 09:56, Rich Winslow via CnC-List  
wrote:

 

Rich Winslow

 

I removed batteries and rested them on 2 x 4's in my heated basement-  I 
understand wet cell batteries lose their charge if left in the cold, and when 
discharged, they can freeze.

 

 

-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-request 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Sat, Nov 1, 2014 12:16 pm
Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 106, Issue 2

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Re: Stus-List Metallurgy

[Wally Bryant via CnC-List]

Tom - I did something similar, but made it out of prefab fiberglass from 
McMaster-Carr.  I used little fiberglass blocks epoxied to the hull.  
This was an early project (14 years ago... yikes!) and I'd do it better 
now.  However, I can replace the little bilge pump without pulling 
everything out, since it's hose clamped to the bracket.  That's turned 
out to be a good idea.




Wal

Tom wrote:

I am planning on mounting my new auto bilge switch to a plate then lower the 
plate into the bilge and mounting it to the side of the bilge.  Much easier 
than trying to mount to the bottom of the bilge.

My question is if I use an aluminum plate and mount it with stainless 
fasteners, will I have any corrosion issues?



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Stus-List Autopilot Gremlin - Caution!

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Just a caution for those who regularly use an autosteerer.  The Admiral and
I were using the wheelpilot (Simrad WP30) as we passed under the Dauphin
Island last weekend on our way to Pensacola.

In the middle of the bridge, the wheelpilot went bonkers and steered hard
to starboard.  Luckily I was right there and disengaged it before we hit
the fenders guarding the passage.

No idea what caused it.  Underground cables, gremlins, space aliens,
etc.?  There was a line of overhead power cables but they were about a
tenth of a mile behind us.

All I know is new rule for the boat now.  No autosteering through a bridge.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List Autopilot Gremlin - Caution!

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Good rule, Dennis.

 

The bridge is, of course, iron and will alter the magnetic field seen by your 
compass to some greater or lesser extent, depending on the amount of iron and 
the proximity to your fluxgate compass.

 

I was sitting next to the tiller pilot on my 25 one night, and had my car keys 
in my hip pocket. When I got up to look at a channel marker I was passing near, 
the boat changed course rapidly. Suddenly I was not just “close to” the mark, 
my standing rigging was tangled in it.

 

It was a very expensive lesson in just how sensitive those little fluxgate 
compasses can be.

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. 
via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2014 9:25 PM
To: CnClist
Subject: Stus-List Autopilot Gremlin - Caution!

 

Just a caution for those who regularly use an autosteerer.  The Admiral and I 
were using the wheelpilot (Simrad WP30) as we passed under the Dauphin Island 
last weekend on our way to Pensacola.

In the middle of the bridge, the wheelpilot went bonkers and steered hard to 
starboard.  Luckily I was right there and disengaged it before we hit the 
fenders guarding the passage.  

No idea what caused it.  Underground cables, gremlins, space aliens, etc.?  
There was a line of overhead power cables but they were about a tenth of a mile 
behind us.

All I know is new rule for the boat now.  No autosteering through a bridge.

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

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Re: Stus-List Autopilot Gremlin - Caution!

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

We have a few magnetic anomalies around here, I know not to put Otto in
charge anywhere near them. Most are on the charts. Some are scary finding
them.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 2 November 2014 19:05, Rick Brass via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Good rule, Dennis.
>
>
>
> The bridge is, of course, iron and will alter the magnetic field seen by
> your compass to some greater or lesser extent, depending on the amount of
> iron and the proximity to your fluxgate compass.
>
>
>
> I was sitting next to the tiller pilot on my 25 one night, and had my car
> keys in my hip pocket. When I got up to look at a channel marker I was
> passing near, the boat changed course rapidly. Suddenly I was not just
> “close to” the mark, my standing rigging was tangled in it.
>
>
>
> It was a very expensive lesson in just how sensitive those little fluxgate
> compasses can be.
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Dennis
> C. via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 02, 2014 9:25 PM
> *To:* CnClist
> *Subject:* Stus-List Autopilot Gremlin - Caution!
>
>
>
> Just a caution for those who regularly use an autosteerer.  The Admiral
> and I were using the wheelpilot (Simrad WP30) as we passed under the
> Dauphin Island last weekend on our way to Pensacola.
>
> In the middle of the bridge, the wheelpilot went bonkers and steered hard
> to starboard.  Luckily I was right there and disengaged it before we hit
> the fenders guarding the passage.
>
> No idea what caused it.  Underground cables, gremlins, space aliens,
> etc.?  There was a line of overhead power cables but they were about a
> tenth of a mile behind us.
>
> All I know is new rule for the boat now.  No autosteering through a bridge.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> Touche' 35-1 #83
>
> Mandeville, LA
>
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Re: Stus-List Autopilot Gremlin - Caution!

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Agreed.
Do not use an autopilot in Bute Inlet or really close to Sangster Island. :)

Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35-1

At 08:41 PM 02/11/2014, you wrote:
We have a few magnetic anomalies around here, I 
know not to put Otto in charge anywhere near 
them. Most are on the charts. Some are scary finding them.


Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

On 2 November 2014 19:05, Rick Brass via 
CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:


Good rule, Dennis.

Â

The bridge is, of course, iron and will alter 
the magnetic field seen by your compass to some 
greater or lesser extent, depending on the 
amount of iron and the proximity to your fluxgate compass.


Â

I was sitting next to the tiller pilot on my 25 
one night, and had my car keys in my hip pocket. 
When I got up to look at a channel marker I was 
passing near, the boat changed course rapidly. 
Suddenly I was not just “close to” the mark, 
my standing rigging was tangled in it.


Â

It was a very expensive lesson in just how 
sensitive those little fluxgate compasses can be.


Â

Â

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

Â

Â

Â

From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. via CnC-List

Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2014 9:25 PM
To: CnClist
Subject: Stus-List Autopilot Gremlin - Caution!

Â

Just a caution for those who regularly use an 
autosteerer.  The Admiral and I were using the 
wheelpilot (Simrad WP30) as we passed under the 
Dauphin Island last weekend on our way to Pensacola.


In the middle of the bridge, the wheelpilot went 
bonkers and steered hard to starboard.  Luckily 
I was right there and disengaged it before we 
hit the fenders guarding the passage.Â


No idea what caused it.  Underground cables, 
gremlins, space aliens, etc.?  There was a 
line of overhead power cables but they were about a tenth of a mile behind us.


All I know is new rule for the boat now.  No autosteering through a bridge.

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

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