Re: Stus-List New sail purchase
Hello Bev, I am currently going through the same process for my furling genoa. I've obtained quotes and been discussing with quite a few lofts (some local, some less locals). I've come to the conclusion that a 135% would be a good size to go with (we have a 100% jib and an asym spi). We also do essentially weekend cruising with quite a few day sails, no racing on the horizon. Our boat is a C&C 30-mk2 of 1987. I have been considering three sail types and I haven't finalized my decision yet, so I'll throw in the arguments I have for each: 1) A classic cross-cut dacron sail. The least expensive option at each loft. Prices can vary from loft to loft but if more than 5% variation, then there are differences in the construction. Some lofts would suggest using rather thin 5 oz. cloths, most preferred to go with 7-7.3 oz since we would favor using the spi when going with the wind and a heavier cloth would be more durable and more forgiving for the beginners we are (3 years with the boat so far, first boat). Some lofts offer different levels of "firmness" of the cloth, usually with a price premium (around 10% extra) and I've come to the conclusion that this upgrade makes sense (the sail should hold better shape for longer in higher winds). 2) A tri-radial design using fill-oriented dacron (UK Halsey warp drive or North Radian). From the quotes we have, price is about 30% more than for the cross cut dacron. The sail should hold its shape much better and should be as (if not more) durable than the classic cross-cut. The sails for which we received quotes where all made in Asia. North said that any repairs or adjustments need to be done at their headquarter in Connecticut. 3) A cross-cut sail using cruising oriented laminates. Here the cloth is a laminate that includes fibers supporting the loads in directions that are aligned with tensions applied on a sail (see pdf brochure from Polyant: http://www.dimension-polyant.com/en/pdf/DP_Flex_Polyester_Cruise_E.pdf ). It is called a cruising laminate because it is protected on both side by a weaved taffeta that protects the laminate from chafe. This allows the sail to be made using the less labor intensive cross cut construction. I have a quote from Haarstick (Rochester, NY) that comes up to about 25% more than the classic dacron cross-cut. The sail should hold much better shape and it seems that with each new generation of laminates designed for cruising, the durability increases. The level of discussion I had with each sailmaker varies a lot (both in verbosity and quality). The most informative discussions I've had has been with Haarstick ( http://www.haarsticksailmakers.com ) where Doug Burtner has provided a lot of great info, was prompt to reply and everything he wrote I could confirm with further research. Two local lofts I contacted were quite disappointing (Evolution sails never sent back a quote, North rep. was very verbose [on the phone] but not so informative and I've found that they don't have any loft and would do all repairs and modifications in Connecticut). Among the various sailmakers I've contacted, two have confirmed that the sail cut and construction would not be sent off shore: Haarstick (Rochester, NY) and Port Townsend sails (near Seattle, WA). The sails from PT sails seem to be fantastic classic cruising sails but they are extremely expensive (about 2x the price of a classic dacron sail from other sailmakers). Although I haven't investigated them much because of budget constraints, it seems like the type of sails I'd consider if I was to leave for a multi-year cruise. In my case, although I've been putting emphasize on durability, I've realized that we put fairly little hours of use on our sails per year (short sailing season, family+work schedule, etc.). I'm currently leaning toward going with the cruising laminate cross-cut proposed by Haarstick. The fact that the high-tech fabric allows a less labor intensive construction (cross-cut) means less incentive to export labor offshore, I put some "morale" value into that! For the local lofts, they proposed to come to our boat and take measurements. In all other case, they propose to send all necessary info so I can take the measurements myself. Some mentioned that I should complement the measurements with large amounts of digital photos to fully document the rig and make sure that there is no misunderstanding of which measures are which. I'm fairly confident that this is the way to go. Feel free to contact me off the list if you would like to discuss the specific details of the quotes I've received, I'd be happy to share them if it can help you with your decision! Sébastien Lemieux Merlot X - C&C 30 mk2 1987 Mooney Bay - Lake Champlain On Oct 11, 2012, at 12:53, broo...@aol.com wrote: > Hello listers, > Bob Morgan and I have been mostly lurking on the list for the last few > months, although we have had
Stus-List Dyneema baby stay
Hi, I am looking for a solution to help make my baby stay more easily removable. I presently have a standard 1x19 SS cable turn buckle set up, and I plan to install a pelican-like hook attachment. I have a colleague who is replacing his SS lifelines with Dyneema line. This got me to think about using Dyneema for the baby stay.Does anyone have any experience in using a Dyneema solution for any rigging arrangements? - Paul E. 1979 C&C 29 Mk1 S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Dyneema baby stay
Paul, I did my lifelines with it. Here is what I learned: When I bought the line, I was told to make each lifeline about 6 inches shorter than the cable lines and to lash it. Good thing I listened. Until it is tensioned you can not really determine length. That might make it hard to use as a removable stay. After a couple of sails I noticed some loose strands from the jib rubbing against it. I bought a couple of white shroud covers (the kind you should not use on stainless) for the first section of lifeline and solved the problem. It is easy to splice, and the pelican hook may cost more than the line. I think my hooks are from CS Johnson. Joel 35/3 The Office Annapolis On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 9:10 AM, wrote: > Hi, > > I am looking for a solution to help make my baby stay more easily > removable. I presently have a standard 1x19 SS cable turn buckle set up, > and I plan to install a pelican-like hook attachment. I have a colleague > who is replacing his SS lifelines with Dyneema line. This got me to think > about using Dyneema for the baby stay.Does anyone have any experience > in using a Dyneema solution for any rigging arrangements? > > > - > Paul E. > 1979 C&C 29 Mk1 > S/V Johanna Rose > Carrabelle, FL > > > ___ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List New sail purchase
Hi, I agree, Doug ( Burtner ) is a nice guy to deal with, he knows his stuff.. I recently ( 1 week ago ) asked for a quote, a 150% genoa for my 27 : We also have a new FLEX Technora Cruising Laminate that we can now build as a Cross Cut Sail. Many racing customers are using this with great results. First Overall at Levels IRC Regatta in Youngstown. Also 1st overall in PHRF and IRC at the LYRA Regatta in Oswego this year. A 180% is a rare request for a Genoa. I have heard of 170%'s before that sheet to the stern, but when talking about a 180% that is usually in reference to a spinnaker? For now I have quoted the 150 below: 150% Furling Genoa's for C&C 27-III with 15% off discount applied (ends Mid-November) Cross Cut Dacron $1840 Cross Cut FLEX Laminate $2338 Triradial Pentex $2870 with UV Covers, reefing Patches and foam luff. They don't really build from Pentex anymore ( they would order it if I insist ), they have been testing FLEX in the field fome several years and are going this route. They also don't need to build tri-radial with FLEX, the tension points are already adressed with this multi fiber-oriented material so you get the savings that comes with a cross-cut. Sylvain C&C27 MkIII Lake Champlain From: Sébastien Lemieux To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 9:00 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List New sail purchase Hello Bev, I am currently going through the same process for my furling genoa. I've obtained quotes and been discussing with quite a few lofts (some local, some less locals). I've come to the conclusion that a 135% would be a good size to go with (we have a 100% jib and an asym spi). We also do essentially weekend cruising with quite a few day sails, no racing on the horizon. Our boat is a C&C 30-mk2 of 1987. I have been considering three sail types and I haven't finalized my decision yet, so I'll throw in the arguments I have for each: 1) A classic cross-cut dacron sail. The least expensive option at each loft. Prices can vary from loft to loft but if more than 5% variation, then there are differences in the construction. Some lofts would suggest using rather thin 5 oz. cloths, most preferred to go with 7-7.3 oz since we would favor using the spi when going with the wind and a heavier cloth would be more durable and more forgiving for the beginners we are (3 years with the boat so far, first boat). Some lofts offer different levels of "firmness" of the cloth, usually with a price premium (around 10% extra) and I've come to the conclusion that this upgrade makes sense (the sail should hold better shape for longer in higher winds). 2) A tri-radial design using fill-oriented dacron (UK Halsey warp drive or North Radian). From the quotes we have, price is about 30% more than for the cross cut dacron. The sail should hold its shape much better and should be as (if not more) durable than the classic cross-cut. The sails for which we received quotes where all made in Asia. North said that any repairs or adjustments need to be done at their headquarter in Connecticut. 3) A cross-cut sail using cruising oriented laminates. Here the cloth is a laminate that includes fibers supporting the loads in directions that are aligned with tensions applied on a sail (see pdf brochure from Polyant: http://www.dimension-polyant.com/en/pdf/DP_Flex_Polyester_Cruise_E.pdf ). It is called a cruising laminate because it is protected on both side by a weaved taffeta that protects the laminate from chafe. This allows the sail to be made using the less labor intensive cross cut construction. I have a quote from Haarstick (Rochester, NY) that comes up to about 25% more than the classic dacron cross-cut. The sail should hold much better shape and it seems that with each new generation of laminates designed for cruising, the durability increases. The level of discussion I had with each sailmaker varies a lot (both in verbosity and quality). The most informative discussions I've had has been with Haarstick ( http://www.haarsticksailmakers.com ) where Doug Burtner has provided a lot of great info, was prompt to reply and everything he wrote I could confirm with further research. Two local lofts I contacted were quite disappointing (Evolution sails never sent back a quote, North rep. was very verbose [on the phone] but not so informative and I've found that they don't have any loft and would do all repairs and modifications in Connecticut). Among the various sailmakers I've contacted, two have confirmed that the sail cut and construction would not be sent off shore: Haarstick (Rochester, NY) and Port Townsend sails (near Seattle, WA). The sails from PT sails seem to be fantastic classic cruising sails but they are extremely expensive (about 2x the price of a classic dacron sail from other sailmakers). Although I haven't investigated them much because of budget constrain
Re: Stus-List New sail purchase
I went with Haarstick, even though I'm on the westcoast (150% #1). Very happy with the sail and it is keeping it's shape well, despite some abuse. Leslie Phoenix, C&C 32 (1983) From: Sébastien Lemieux To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 6:00 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List New sail purchase Hello Bev, I am currently going through the same process for my furling genoa. I've obtained quotes and been discussing with quite a few lofts (some local, some less locals). I've come to the conclusion that a 135% would be a good size to go with (we have a 100% jib and an asym spi). We also do essentially weekend cruising with quite a few day sails, no racing on the horizon. Our boat is a C&C 30-mk2 of 1987. I have been considering three sail types and I haven't finalized my decision yet, so I'll throw in the arguments I have for each: 1) A classic cross-cut dacron sail. The least expensive option at each loft. Prices can vary from loft to loft but if more than 5% variation, then there are differences in the construction. Some lofts would suggest using rather thin 5 oz. cloths, most preferred to go with 7-7.3 oz since we would favor using the spi when going with the wind and a heavier cloth would be more durable and more forgiving for the beginners we are (3 years with the boat so far, first boat). Some lofts offer different levels of "firmness" of the cloth, usually with a price premium (around 10% extra) and I've come to the conclusion that this upgrade makes sense (the sail should hold better shape for longer in higher winds). 2) A tri-radial design using fill-oriented dacron (UK Halsey warp drive or North Radian). From the quotes we have, price is about 30% more than for the cross cut dacron. The sail should hold its shape much better and should be as (if not more) durable than the classic cross-cut. The sails for which we received quotes where all made in Asia. North said that any repairs or adjustments need to be done at their headquarter in Connecticut. 3) A cross-cut sail using cruising oriented laminates. Here the cloth is a laminate that includes fibers supporting the loads in directions that are aligned with tensions applied on a sail (see pdf brochure from Polyant: http://www.dimension-polyant.com/en/pdf/DP_Flex_Polyester_Cruise_E.pdf ). It is called a cruising laminate because it is protected on both side by a weaved taffeta that protects the laminate from chafe. This allows the sail to be made using the less labor intensive cross cut construction. I have a quote from Haarstick (Rochester, NY) that comes up to about 25% more than the classic dacron cross-cut. The sail should hold much better shape and it seems that with each new generation of laminates designed for cruising, the durability increases. The level of discussion I had with each sailmaker varies a lot (both in verbosity and quality). The most informative discussions I've had has been with Haarstick ( http://www.haarsticksailmakers.com ) where Doug Burtner has provided a lot of great info, was prompt to reply and everything he wrote I could confirm with further research. Two local lofts I contacted were quite disappointing (Evolution sails never sent back a quote, North rep. was very verbose [on the phone] but not so informative and I've found that they don't have any loft and would do all repairs and modifications in Connecticut). Among the various sailmakers I've contacted, two have confirmed that the sail cut and construction would not be sent off shore: Haarstick (Rochester, NY) and Port Townsend sails (near Seattle, WA). The sails from PT sails seem to be fantastic classic cruising sails but they are extremely expensive (about 2x the price of a classic dacron sail from other sailmakers). Although I haven't investigated them much because of budget constraints, it seems like the type of sails I'd consider if I was to leave for a multi-year cruise. In my case, although I've been putting emphasize on durability, I've realized that we put fairly little hours of use on our sails per year (short sailing season, family+work schedule, etc.). I'm currently leaning toward going with the cruising laminate cross-cut proposed by Haarstick. The fact that the high-tech fabric allows a less labor intensive construction (cross-cut) means less incentive to export labor offshore, I put some "morale" value into that! For the local lofts, they proposed to come to our boat and take measurements. In all other case, they propose to send all necessary info so I can take the measurements myself. Some mentioned that I should complement the measurements with large amounts of digital photos to fully document the rig and make sure that there is no misunderstanding of which measures are which. I'm fairly confident that this is the way to go. Feel free to contact me off the list if you would like to discuss the specifi
Re: Stus-List New sail purchase
Number 1 argument for you at a local loft...around here Doyle is good Dwight Veinot C&C 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Sébastien Lemieux Sent: October 17, 2012 10:01 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List New sail purchase Hello Bev, I am currently going through the same process for my furling genoa. I've obtained quotes and been discussing with quite a few lofts (some local, some less locals). I've come to the conclusion that a 135% would be a good size to go with (we have a 100% jib and an asym spi). We also do essentially weekend cruising with quite a few day sails, no racing on the horizon. Our boat is a C&C 30-mk2 of 1987. I have been considering three sail types and I haven't finalized my decision yet, so I'll throw in the arguments I have for each: 1) A classic cross-cut dacron sail. The least expensive option at each loft. Prices can vary from loft to loft but if more than 5% variation, then there are differences in the construction. Some lofts would suggest using rather thin 5 oz. cloths, most preferred to go with 7-7.3 oz since we would favor using the spi when going with the wind and a heavier cloth would be more durable and more forgiving for the beginners we are (3 years with the boat so far, first boat). Some lofts offer different levels of "firmness" of the cloth, usually with a price premium (around 10% extra) and I've come to the conclusion that this upgrade makes sense (the sail should hold better shape for longer in higher winds). 2) A tri-radial design using fill-oriented dacron (UK Halsey warp drive or North Radian). From the quotes we have, price is about 30% more than for the cross cut dacron. The sail should hold its shape much better and should be as (if not more) durable than the classic cross-cut. The sails for which we received quotes where all made in Asia. North said that any repairs or adjustments need to be done at their headquarter in Connecticut. 3) A cross-cut sail using cruising oriented laminates. Here the cloth is a laminate that includes fibers supporting the loads in directions that are aligned with tensions applied on a sail (see pdf brochure from Polyant: http://www.dimension-polyant.com/en/pdf/DP_Flex_Polyester_Cruise_E.pdf ). It is called a cruising laminate because it is protected on both side by a weaved taffeta that protects the laminate from chafe. This allows the sail to be made using the less labor intensive cross cut construction. I have a quote from Haarstick (Rochester, NY) that comes up to about 25% more than the classic dacron cross-cut. The sail should hold much better shape and it seems that with each new generation of laminates designed for cruising, the durability increases. The level of discussion I had with each sailmaker varies a lot (both in verbosity and quality). The most informative discussions I've had has been with Haarstick ( http://www.haarsticksailmakers.com ) where Doug Burtner has provided a lot of great info, was prompt to reply and everything he wrote I could confirm with further research. Two local lofts I contacted were quite disappointing (Evolution sails never sent back a quote, North rep. was very verbose [on the phone] but not so informative and I've found that they don't have any loft and would do all repairs and modifications in Connecticut). Among the various sailmakers I've contacted, two have confirmed that the sail cut and construction would not be sent off shore: Haarstick (Rochester, NY) and Port Townsend sails (near Seattle, WA). The sails from PT sails seem to be fantastic classic cruising sails but they are extremely expensive (about 2x the price of a classic dacron sail from other sailmakers). Although I haven't investigated them much because of budget constraints, it seems like the type of sails I'd consider if I was to leave for a multi-year cruise. In my case, although I've been putting emphasize on durability, I've realized that we put fairly little hours of use on our sails per year (short sailing season, family+work schedule, etc.). I'm currently leaning toward going with the cruising laminate cross-cut proposed by Haarstick. The fact that the high-tech fabric allows a less labor intensive construction (cross-cut) means less incentive to export labor offshore, I put some "morale" value into that! For the local lofts, they proposed to come to our boat and take measurements. In all other case, they propose to send all necessary info so I can take the measurements myself. Some mentioned that I should complement the measurements with large amounts of digital photos to fully document the rig and make sure that there is no misunderstanding of which measures are which. I'm fairly confident that this is the way to go. Feel free to contact me off the list if you would like to discuss the specific details of the quotes I've received, I'd be happy to share the
Re: Stus-List Dyneema baby stay
Won't be much easier Dwight Veinot C&C 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dre...@gmail.com Sent: October 17, 2012 10:10 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Dyneema baby stay Hi, I am looking for a solution to help make my baby stay more easily removable. I presently have a standard 1x19 SS cable turn buckle set up, and I plan to install a pelican-like hook attachment. I have a colleague who is replacing his SS lifelines with Dyneema line. This got me to think about using Dyneema for the baby stay.Does anyone have any experience in using a Dyneema solution for any rigging arrangements? - Paul E. 1979 C&C 29 Mk1 S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5336 - Release Date: 10/16/12 ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Dyneema baby stay
Besides posts on this list from a few months back suggested that having a baby stay was not an issue for some sailors at all, while I still view it as a PITA on any sailboat and especially on a 29 footer...maybe see if you really need one first Dwight Veinot C&C 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight veinot Sent: October 17, 2012 7:28 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Dyneema baby stay Won't be much easier Dwight Veinot C&C 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dre...@gmail.com Sent: October 17, 2012 10:10 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Dyneema baby stay Hi, I am looking for a solution to help make my baby stay more easily removable. I presently have a standard 1x19 SS cable turn buckle set up, and I plan to install a pelican-like hook attachment. I have a colleague who is replacing his SS lifelines with Dyneema line. This got me to think about using Dyneema for the baby stay.Does anyone have any experience in using a Dyneema solution for any rigging arrangements? - Paul E. 1979 C&C 29 Mk1 S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5336 - Release Date: 10/16/12 ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5336 - Release Date: 10/16/12 ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Stus-List Portlight Frame Expansion/Contraction
I am replacing the lenses on my portlights. They are in aluminum frames that are screwed into the cabintop. I understand that I need to take into account the expansion/contraction of the lens material. When the temperature increases does the inside circumference of the frame increase or decrease? Thx in advance, Bob M Ox 33-1 Jax, FL ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Portlight Frame Expansion/Contraction
If the old ones are not cracked, I'd use them as patterns for the new lenses. An evasive answer, I know, but I'd say in a typical small aluminum frame the dimension change due to heat would be negligible and leaving an 1/8" clearance all round should prevent cracking. Rich Knowles Indigo. LF38 Halifax On 2012-10-17, at 21:43, Bob Moriarty wrote: I am replacing the lenses on my portlights. They are in aluminum frames that are screwed into the cabintop. I understand that I need to take into account the expansion/contraction of the lens material. When the temperature increases does the inside circumference of the frame increase or decrease? Thx in advance, Bob M Ox 33-1 Jax, FL ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Portlight Frame Expansion/Contraction
The inside circumference of the frame will increase as temp rises. Think of it as a rope that stretches, longer rope makes a bigger circle. James Delaney 1976 38Mk11 Oriental, NC - Original Message - From: "Bob Moriarty" To: "cnc-list" Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 8:43 PM Subject: Stus-List Portlight Frame Expansion/Contraction I am replacing the lenses on my portlights. They are in aluminum frames that are screwed into the cabintop. I understand that I need to take into account the expansion/contraction of the lens material. When the temperature increases does the inside circumference of the frame increase or decrease? Thx in advance, Bob M Ox 33-1 Jax, FL ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
