Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video
This story on the Three Sheets Northwest web site may be interesting to C&C'rs thinking about a keel joint rebed project. http://threesheetsnw.com/blog/2012/10/racing-sailboat-dacha-gets-a-new-keel-joint/ Martin Calypso 1970 C&C 43 Seattle ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video
I'm glad I didn't get that bill! Joel Sent from my iPad On Oct 16, 2012, at 5:33 PM, Martin DeYoung wrote: This story on the Three Sheets Northwest web site may be interesting to C&C’rs thinking about a keel joint rebed project. http://threesheetsnw.com/blog/2012/10/racing-sailboat-dacha-gets-a-new-keel-joint/ Martin Calypso 1970 C&C 43 Seattle ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video
Joel Two years ago I did the same thing to "Liberty" a 1976 38' MK I. Unfortunately we discovered that all the keel bolts had to be replaced as well. The bill for the whole thing was around 12K. I have a log as well as pics of the whole ugly affair. Gary Kolc Joel Aronson wrote: > I'm glad I didn't get that bill! > > Joel > Sent from my iPad > > On Oct 16, 2012, at 5:33 PM, Martin DeYoung wrote: > > This story on the Three Sheets Northwest web site may be interesting to > C&C’rs thinking about a keel joint rebed project. > > > > http://threesheetsnw.com/blog/2012/10/racing-sailboat-dacha-gets-a-new-keel-joint/ > > > > Martin > > Calypso > > 1970 C&C 43 > > Seattle > > > > ___ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Dropping the rudder on a 29-2
I'd like to drop the rudder on my 29 mkII after it's hauled this fall. Any advise or things to watch out for? Removing the steering quadrant is pretty straight forward as long as the bolts aren't frozen. I'm not sure about what is going on at the upper and of the rudder shaft at the cockpit sole. I looks like there is possibly a bearing just beneath the fitting where the emergency tiller attaches. Has anyone been there? ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Dropping the rudder on a 29-2
I've done mine twice. 1st time was a bear, the bolts in the quadrant were seized solid, so ended up cutting the quadrant off the shaft. There should be a round donut at the top of the rudder shaft, just below the square part that the emergency rudder would fit on. There is either a pin that goes all the way through, or there are 2 set screws 45 degrees apart from one another. If you remove those, and the quadrant is off, the whole thing will slide out without an issue. I used some blocking on a bench mate to keep the rudder from dropping to the ground. 1 6X6 under the cradle should give ample room to clear the hull. On mine, someone had stripped the set screws, and rather than tap out a bigger one, put helicoils in...which weren't compatable with the surrounding metal, so had to cut that off too. -- Cheers, Jeff Nelson Senior Manager Halifax, NS Ph: 902-880-8243 On 16/10/2012 7:46 PM, Ted Drossos wrote: I'd like to drop the rudder on my 29 mkII after it's hauled this fall. Any advise or things to watch out for? Removing the steering quadrant is pretty straight forward as long as the bolts aren't frozen. I'm not sure about what is going on at the upper and of the rudder shaft at the cockpit sole. I looks like there is possibly a bearing just beneath the fitting where the emergency tiller attaches. Has anyone been there? ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Boat_Sig Cheers, Jeff Nelson Muir Caileag C&C 30 Armdale Y.C. Halifax ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Dropping the rudder on a 29-2
Ted No experience but would like to hear what you find just in case I ever need to do the same Paul Waldeck C & C 29-2 "Second Wind" _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ted Drossos Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 6:46 PM To: CnC-List@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Dropping the rudder on a 29-2 I'd like to drop the rudder on my 29 mkII after it's hauled this fall. Any advise or things to watch out for? Removing the steering quadrant is pretty straight forward as long as the bolts aren't frozen. I'm not sure about what is going on at the upper and of the rudder shaft at the cockpit sole. I looks like there is possibly a bearing just beneath the fitting where the emergency tiller attaches. Has anyone been there? ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video
Gary, I really!! don't like hearing that. This is a project that I'm going to have to tackle on my 38' as well. The keel joint is showing a definite crack along the entire length but I don't have any water in the bilge at this point. Advice? James Delaney C&C 38 1976 Oriental, NC - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 6:20 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video Joel Two years ago I did the same thing to "Liberty" a 1976 38' MK I. Unfortunately we discovered that all the keel bolts had to be replaced as well. The bill for the whole thing was around 12K. I have a log as well as pics of the whole ugly affair. Gary Kolc Joel Aronson wrote: I'm glad I didn't get that bill! Joel Sent from my iPad On Oct 16, 2012, at 5:33 PM, Martin DeYoung wrote: This story on the Three Sheets Northwest web site may be interesting to C&C’rs thinking about a keel joint rebed project. http://threesheetsnw.com/blog/2012/10/racing-sailboat-dacha-gets-a-new-keel-joint/ Martin Calypso 1970 C&C 43 Seattle ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video
Gary and James: In the course of redoing the bottom on my 38MKIIC in 1998my fiberglass shop found some punky bondo-like filler around the upper joint. My guys here are pros at that stuff and I can't count on how many C&C's they've done from older ones to newer ones like the 115 in this video. Their fix is to drop the keel, and they do not use 5200, they use a marine adhesive instead, and then they lay up epoxy cloth over the joint and fair it to the keel from the bottom of the hull downward. To date, there is no movement, joint reappearance, or weeping from anything under there. This year, I finally had to rebuild the rudder..years of water intrusion and freezing and other guck inside just required I do something. Using the original skeleton inside which is way overbuilt, another shop fabricated a new rudder using the original shape (sort of). The result is really nice and the point of this is to let you know that the removal of the rudder and the top fittings went just fine. I had the two set screws at 45degrees that came out easily, and the quadrant came off nicely as well.It's never been off the boat since 1977. It's a project that you shouldn't shy away from..just take your time and it will be OK.. Best, Ron Casciato Impromptu C&C 38MKIIC.'77 New England -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of jtsails Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 7:07 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video Gary, I really!! don't like hearing that. This is a project that I'm going to have to tackle on my 38' as well. The keel joint is showing a definite crack along the entire length but I don't have any water in the bilge at this point. Advice? James Delaney C&C 38 1976 Oriental, NC - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 6:20 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video > Joel >Two years ago I did the same thing to "Liberty" a 1976 38' MK I. > Unfortunately we discovered that all the keel bolts had to be replaced as > well. The bill for the whole thing was around 12K. I have a log as well as > pics of the whole ugly affair. > > Gary > Kolc > > Joel Aronson wrote: >> I'm glad I didn't get that bill! >> >> Joel >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Oct 16, 2012, at 5:33 PM, Martin DeYoung >> wrote: >> >> This story on the Three Sheets Northwest web site may be interesting to >> C&C'rs thinking about a keel joint rebed project. >> >> >> >> http://threesheetsnw.com/blog/2012/10/racing-sailboat-dacha-gets-a-new-keel- joint/ >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> Calypso >> >> 1970 C&C 43 >> >> Seattle >> >> >> >> ___ >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > ___ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Dropping the rudder on a 29-2
Me too! Me too! randy Tamanawas 29-II Hood River, OR From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of paul waldeck Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 4:04 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Dropping the rudder on a 29-2 Ted No experience but would like to hear what you find just in case I ever need to do the same Paul Waldeck C & C 29-2 "Second Wind" _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ted Drossos Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 6:46 PM To: CnC-List@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Dropping the rudder on a 29-2 I'd like to drop the rudder on my 29 mkII after it's hauled this fall. Any advise or things to watch out for? Removing the steering quadrant is pretty straight forward as long as the bolts aren't frozen. I'm not sure about what is going on at the upper and of the rudder shaft at the cockpit sole. I looks like there is possibly a bearing just beneath the fitting where the emergency tiller attaches. Has anyone been there? ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video
Torque the keel bolts to recommended spce, slap a layer of glass tape around the hull keel joint and go sailing. That's what I did 12 years ago and haven't seen any cracks or issues since. Have bounced on the bottom a few times since also. It's Touche' that's on the DIY "Fixing the C&C Smile" link on the photoalbum site. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA > > From: jtsails >To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com >Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 6:06 PM >Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video > >Gary, >I really!! don't like hearing that. This is a project that I'm going to >have to tackle on my 38' as well. The keel joint is showing a definite crack >along the entire length but I don't have any water in the bilge at this point. >Advice? >James >Delaney >C&C 38 1976 >Oriental, NC > > >- Original Message - From: >To: >Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 6:20 PM >Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video > > >> Joel >> Two years ago I did the same thing to "Liberty" a 1976 38' MK I. >>Unfortunately we discovered that all the keel bolts had to be replaced as >>well. The bill for the whole thing was around 12K. I have a log as well as >>pics of the whole ugly affair. >> >> Gary Kolc >> >> Joel Aronson wrote: >>> I'm glad I didn't get that bill! >>> >>> Joel >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Oct 16, 2012, at 5:33 PM, Martin DeYoung wrote: >>> >>> This story on the Three Sheets Northwest web site may be interesting to >>> C&C’rs thinking about a keel joint rebed project. >>> >>> >>> >>> http://threesheetsnw.com/blog/2012/10/racing-sailboat-dacha-gets-a-new-keel-joint/ >>> >>> >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> Calypso >>> >>> 1970 C&C 43 >>> >>> Seattle >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >> >> ___ >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >> > > >___ >This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > >___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video
This procedure is all too familiar to me. We took about a week to R&R the keel, but that was due to other work needed in the keel stub. The project went well and 7 years later is still considered to be a success. The fiberglass wrapped joint is as tight as ever. Jake Jake Brodersen C&C 35 Mk-III "Midnight Mistress Hampton VA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Martin DeYoung Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 5:33 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video This story on the Three Sheets Northwest web site may be interesting to C&C'rs thinking about a keel joint rebed project. http://threesheetsnw.com/blog/2012/10/racing-sailboat-dacha-gets-a-new-keel- joint/ Martin Calypso 1970 C&C 43 Seattle ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video
Dennis I'm not sure that would work to repair a leaking keel hull joint in locations where water freezes in winter. If the keel joint leaks water into the bilge then any water in the bilge will also leak to the outside through the joint and patching the outside as you suggest would trap water from the bilge between the joint. If that water is retained somewhere in between the hull and the keel by the outside patch then freezing temperatures would likely exacerbate the problem. The procedure would probably work well if leaking were not an issue but then one has to wonder why drop the keel to do a repair. Your approach would seem preferable to me to repair or eliminate the smile in that case. Dwight Veinot C&C 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. Sent: October 16, 2012 8:56 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video Torque the keel bolts to recommended spce, slap a layer of glass tape around the hull keel joint and go sailing. That's what I did 12 years ago and haven't seen any cracks or issues since. Have bounced on the bottom a few times since also. It's Touche' that's on the DIY "Fixing the C&C Smile" link on the photoalbum site. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA _ From: jtsails To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 6:06 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video Gary, I really!! don't like hearing that. This is a project that I'm going to have to tackle on my 38' as well. The keel joint is showing a definite crack along the entire length but I don't have any water in the bilge at this point. Advice? James Delaney C&C 38 1976 Oriental, NC ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video
Dwight In my case the keel was letting water into the boat. We were getting about a half gallon a day and water would leak out when we were hauled for the season. I talked to a former owner who said it always leaked a little from the back of the keel (10 years ago) so I knew it was time to bite the bullet and fix it correctly. Gary dwight veinot wrote: > Dennis > > > > I'm not sure that would work to repair a leaking keel hull joint in > locations where water freezes in winter. If the keel joint leaks water into > the bilge then any water in the bilge will also leak to the outside through > the joint and patching the outside as you suggest would trap water from the > bilge between the joint. If that water is retained somewhere in between the > hull and the keel by the outside patch then freezing temperatures would > likely exacerbate the problem. > > > > The procedure would probably work well if leaking were not an issue but then > one has to wonder why drop the keel to do a repair. Your approach would > seem preferable to me to repair or eliminate the smile in that case. > > > > Dwight Veinot > > C&C 35 MKII, Alianna > > Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS > > _ > > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. > Sent: October 16, 2012 8:56 PM > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video > > > > Torque the keel bolts to recommended spce, slap a layer of glass tape around > the hull keel joint and go sailing. That's what I did 12 years ago and > haven't seen any cracks or issues since. Have bounced on the bottom a few > times since also. > > > > It's Touche' that's on the DIY "Fixing the C&C Smile" link on the photoalbum > site. > > > > Dennis C. > > Touche' 35-1 #83 > > Mandeville, LA > > > > > > > _ > > > From: jtsails > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 6:06 PM > Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video > > > Gary, > I really!! don't like hearing that. This is a project that I'm going to > have to tackle on my 38' as well. The keel joint is showing a definite crack > along the entire length but I don't have any water in the bilge at this > point. Advice? > James > Delaney > C&C 38 1976 > Oriental, NC > > > > ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video
Dennis, Since mine is not leaking into the bilge and freezing is not an issue here, I think that I'll go with your approach even though my crack is much more extensive. I have to wonder if they didn't overdo the prep work when the barrier coat was applied 6 or 8 years ago. Wally, you dropped your keel and redid the joint, an input? James Delaney 38 Mk11 Oriental, NC - Original Message - From: Dennis C. To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 7:55 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video Torque the keel bolts to recommended spce, slap a layer of glass tape around the hull keel joint and go sailing. That's what I did 12 years ago and haven't seen any cracks or issues since. Have bounced on the bottom a few times since also. It's Touche' that's on the DIY "Fixing the C&C Smile" link on the photoalbum site. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA From: jtsails To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 6:06 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video Gary, I really!! don't like hearing that. This is a project that I'm going to have to tackle on my 38' as well. The keel joint is showing a definite crack along the entire length but I don't have any water in the bilge at this point. Advice? James Delaney C&C 38 1976 Oriental, NC - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 6:20 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video > Joel >Two years ago I did the same thing to "Liberty" a 1976 38' MK I. Unfortunately we discovered that all the keel bolts had to be replaced as well. The bill for the whole thing was around 12K. I have a log as well as pics of the whole ugly affair. > > Gary Kolc > > Joel Aronson wrote: >> I'm glad I didn't get that bill! >> >> Joel >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Oct 16, 2012, at 5:33 PM, Martin DeYoung wrote: >> >> This story on the Three Sheets Northwest web site may be interesting to >> C&C’rs thinking about a keel joint rebed project. >> >> >> >> http://threesheetsnw.com/blog/2012/10/racing-sailboat-dacha-gets-a-new-keel-joint/ >> >> >> >> Martin >> >> Calypso >> >> 1970 C&C 43 >> >> Seattle >> >> >> >> ___ >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com > > ___ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video
Good video. Did they wrap the keel joint with glass? Missed seeing the fairing process. Resolute used to require an annual grind and refairing. It never leaked, but the joint opened up each year from sailing pressure on that long lever. When Resolute had keel work, the yard wrapped the joint with two layers of re-enforced fiberglass. I've touched bottom since and she remains very strong w no sign of the old joint. Chuck Resolute 1990 C&C 34R Atlantic City, NJ - Original Message - From: "Martin DeYoung" To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 5:33:28 PM Subject: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video This story on the Three Sheets Northwest web site may be interesting to C&C’rs thinking about a keel joint rebed project. http://threesheetsnw.com/blog/2012/10/racing-sailboat-dacha-gets-a-new-keel-joint/ Martin Calypso 1970 C&C 43 Seattle ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video
James; If you look back into the list archives you would probably find that the C&C Smile and keel bolt torques are among the most frequently discussed topics. I’ve had personal experience with it on both of my C&Cs and also on the C&C designed Newport that I owned for a few years. My 25 had a smile when I bought it in 94. I cleaned out the crack a bit, filled it with 4200, and re-torqued the bolts during one of my first haul outs. I also replaced the iron washers under the keel bolt nuts with stainless backing plates. And I’ve been fairly religious about keeping the torque up to spec since then. When the boat was hauled last November for a bottom job, there was a hairline crack but no “smile”. I would agree with Dennis C that keeping the torque correct is key to eliminating the smile. On my 38, the keel had a considerable smile when I bought her in 2004 – maybe ½ to ¾ inch at the front of the keel stub. She wasn’t leaking, but I was not comfortable with the situation. I had the boat lifted off the keel 3 or 4 inches, the mating surfaces cleaned and filled with 5200, re-torque the bolts, and put a layer of glass around the front half of the joint to fair it. (I had it done at Deaton’s in Oriental , as a matter of fact.) On a 38 like yours and mine, the biggest problem with doing this is the need to pull the mast to get at the keel bolt under the mast step. My smile reappeared when the boat was hauled a couple of years ago. The yard blocked the back of the swept back keel, and the weight of the boat opened up a small crack at the front. I suppose a hard grounding would have the same result. When the boat was out for an engine repair in July, I watched them block the boat and made sure there was a proper support under the front of the keel. I re-faired the small crack with West System, and as long as I keep the bolts tight and don’t hit anything too hard I don’t expect any problems. Rick Brass Imzadi -1976 C&C 38 mk1 la Belle Aurore -1975 C&C 25 mk1 Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of jtsails Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 9:38 PM To: Dennis C.; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 115 new keel joint video Dennis, Since mine is not leaking into the bilge and freezing is not an issue here, I think that I'll go with your approach even though my crack is much more extensive. I have to wonder if they didn't overdo the prep work when the barrier coat was applied 6 or 8 years ago. Wally, you dropped your keel and redid the joint, an input? James Delaney 38 Mk11 Oriental, NC ___ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
