Re: [CentOS] Error in updating to 5.7

[Alain Péan]

Le 14/09/2011 22:07, Karanbir Singh a écrit :
> Hi Alain,
>
>
> Do you have something interesting setup for caching, timeouts etc in yum
> ? or, are you perhaps behind a proxy that still served up an old ( stale
> ? ) repomd.xml for the same url ?

Hi Karanbir,

I don't have anything special in my setup I can think of, that would 
enable caching or timeouts... I am not behind a proxy, I have direct 
access to the Internet, so nothing cached on a proxy.
I only enabled EPEL and Dell Open Manage repository, but I think it is 
fairly common.

So the only thing I can imagine is a stale repond.xml on the mirror, 
distrib-coffee.ipsl.jussieu.fr... Notice that I am on the jussieu 
university network, so on the same "LAN" than the mirror (even if there 
are VLANs...).

Alain

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Re: [CentOS] 6.1 Update request

[Mathieu Baudier]

> Step-1, get the major security stuff into 6.0/cr/.

Sounds good!
Thanks for the update.
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Re: [CentOS] 6.1 Update request

[John Hodrien]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011, Thomas Dukes wrote:

> Just ordered a Lenovo TS130. I think there are some issues with the Intel
> graphics with 6.0 and I saw where they are resolved in 6.1. Hopefully 6.1
> can be released soon. If not, I can install Scientific Linux temporarily.
>
> Fingers crossed!!

Or, just grab the intel xorg driver rpm from SL, and libdrm, and one other
package, the nouveau rpm.  It doesn't make sense to go all the way over to SL
if you plan on coming straight back.

jh
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Re: [CentOS] 6.1 Update request

[David Hrbáč]

Dne 15.9.2011 9:22, Mathieu Baudier napsal(a):
> Sounds good! Thanks for the update.

No it does not. Since cr repo breaks Spacewalk management.
DH

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Re: [CentOS] 6.1 Update request

[John Hodrien]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011, David Hrbáč wrote:


Dne 15.9.2011 9:22, Mathieu Baudier napsal(a):

Sounds good! Thanks for the update.


No it does not. Since cr repo breaks Spacewalk management.


Breaks it how?

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Re: [CentOS] Cons of disabling *.i386 and *.i686 in a 64bit Distribution

[John Doe]

From: James Nguyen 

> So the premise for this question is that I setup an exclude=*.i368,*.i686 in 
> my yum.conf.
> While doing a yum update I come across missing package dependencies for 
> instance mkinitrd for the i386 package.

What about using multilib_policy=best instead?

JD

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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[John Hodrien]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011, Always Learning wrote:

> Golly. I grew-up in real computers. Relational databases are simply
> database structures, linking records. There is no reason to use joins
> and views IF the database is carefully planned. Joins and views are
> another overhead. Rule Number 01 in programming is Keep It Simple.

Next you'll be saying you don't use triggers and constraints either.

There's nothing wrong with using a database as just a dumb datastore, but you
get out exactly what you put in.  Suddenly your application is responsible for
a whole lot more.  You might see a view as complicating things, but if it can
make your app faster, and make your code cleaner, what's not to like?

I think with most applications like you're describing people have a decision
to make as to how much logic goes in the DB and how much goes in the app.
When you're new to it, I think you tend to put all the logic in the
application.  As you progress I think you at the very least put in controls
into the database to maintain the integrity of the data.

jh
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Re: [CentOS] 6.1 Update request

[David Hrbáč]

Dne 15.9.2011 10:36, John Hodrien napsal(a):
> Breaks it how?
>
> jh

So, cr should be used only during shift phase.
DH
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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Keith Roberts]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011, Always Learning wrote:

> One day, if I have time, I want to programme a complete commercial
> accounts systems using HTML, PHP and MySQL. Its a piece of cake to do
> well (meaning easily) but a little time consuming. The only difficulty I
> can think of is printing things locally.

Have you considered using sqlite3 for this Paul?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giAMt8Tj-84

Kind Regards,

Keith

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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Keith Roberts]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011, Keith Roberts wrote:

> To: CentOS mailing list 
> From: Keith Roberts 
> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7
> 
> On Thu, 15 Sep 2011, Always Learning wrote:
>
>> One day, if I have time, I want to programme a complete commercial
>> accounts systems using HTML, PHP and MySQL. Its a piece of cake to do
>> well (meaning easily) but a little time consuming. The only difficulty I
>> can think of is printing things locally.
>
> Have you considered using sqlite3 for this Paul?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giAMt8Tj-84

I'd also suggest taking a look at PHP Smarty Template 
Engine, which allows you to cleanly seperate the back-end 
programming logic, from the Web Browser HTML display code.

http://www.smarty.net/crash_course

HTH

Keith

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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[sebastiano]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 14:44:59 +0800, Fajar Priyanto wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Kahlil Hodgson
>  wrote:
>> Perhaps your are downloading the same corrupted primary.xml.gz
>> from mirror.opendoc.net.  Maybe try another mirror?  Perhaps 
>> download
>> the file manually and compare?

This is a good idea, however I don't know how can I force yum to use 
another mirror. Do you have any suggestion?

> Yeah could be. And if your corporate network is behind a proxy, the
> proxy may cache that corrupted files.

I've set up the network in question and this box (as well as the other 
boxes in the other datacenters which exhibit the same problem) is not 
behind a proxy, so we can exlude the corruption of downloaded files.

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[CentOS] centos-release 5.7 srpm where?

[me]

Hi,

Is the centos-release srpm for 5.7 available anywhere. I have looked at several
mirrors but no srpms are to be found.

I realize everyone is busy but it would be nice to have at least the srpms
that were specific to the centos project with the release.

Regards,

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me...@tdiehl.org
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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Always Learning]

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 10:35 +0100, John Hodrien wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Sep 2011, Always Learning wrote:
> 
> > Golly. I grew-up in real computers. Relational databases are simply
> > database structures, linking records. There is no reason to use joins
> > and views IF the database is carefully planned. Joins and views are
> > another overhead. Rule Number 01 in programming is Keep It Simple.

> Next you'll be saying you don't use triggers and constraints either.

Not consciously. Never heard of them.

http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/iseries/v5r3/index.jsp?topic=%
2Frzahf%2Frzahftrigcontable.htm

"A trigger is a type of stored procedure program that is automatically
called whenever a specified action is performed on a specific table.
Triggers are useful for keeping audit trails, for detecting exceptional
conditions, for maintaining relationships in the database, and for
running applications and operations that coincide with the change
operation."

> There's nothing wrong with using a database as just a dumb datastore,
>  but you get out exactly what you put in.

Hopefully that is always possible - retrieving EXACTLY what was stored
in the database. Why would one want the database to manipulate (change)
data ? Is that a solution for lazy programming ?

>  Suddenly your application is responsible for a whole lot more.  You
>  might see a view as complicating things, but if it can make your app
>  faster, and make your code cleaner, what's not to like?

Simplicity and good design makes applications fast. 

If an application is fast and effective, because of its design and
simplicity, why complicate it ?  A SQL View is an additional overhead
and not needed, in my opinion, in (my) well-designed systems.

> I think with most applications like you're describing people have a
>  decision to make as to how much logic goes in the DB and how much goes
>  in the app. When you're new to it, I think you tend to put all the
>  logic in the application.  As you progress I think you at the very
>  least put in controls into the database to maintain the integrity of
>  the data.

As one becomes more knowledgeable and accustomed to things, one
inevitably regards the database and applications as being integral parts
of the same system. Efficient retrieval of stored data should be a
paramount consideration for the good design of applications.

Unsure why you mean by "at the very least put in controls into the
database to maintain the integrity of the data."

The integrity of the data can be divided into two aspects: ensuring the
data remains constant (unaltered) while stored, which is the
responsibility of the operation system and the database software, and
the data's integrity from an application perspective. Junk-in always
causes Junk-out even when using 'non-dumb' databases :-)

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EU.


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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Craig White]

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 04:07 +0100, Always Learning wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-09-14 at 19:17 -0700, Craig White wrote:
> 
> ... snip interesting posting 
> 
> > WebApps are clearly the future - it's hard to justify specialized
> > server/client applications (installation, limited choice of clients,
> > maintenance, licensing) and it seems that the future will offer 2
> > choices... SAAS or run your own.
> 
> That is the way I see things. Web runs anywhere. Otherwise specific
> application software (usually costing money), licensing involvement,
> software dependency etc. Grab a reasonable browser and start using the
> application!
> 
> 
> > My own take on it... 'plain html' accounting is just fine.
> 
> Mine are a bit more than 'plain'. I use CSS. However accounting is
> basically entering or capturing the data; then doing basic tasks like
> orders, invoices, statements etc. Add some complicated things like
> credit control and specific discount structures for individual
> customers. Branch-out in to name, address and other contract details,
> add the mailing list facility. Add stock control, automatic re-ordering
> etc.
> 
> The best bits that make the directors happy is when they can sit in
> front of the screen and see the sales figures and trends. Everything
> summarised on a single page with more detailed analyse with a simple
> click. Think Gmagic, or perhaps Imagic, may be able to plot on a HTML
> screen.

evidently not knowing what you are talking about and not ever having
actually done anything like it does not represent a barrier for you to
express your opinion on a subject...

Gmagic/Imagick are somewhat incapable of doing graphing at all. You
would likely use a flash or google charts implementation these days to
generate graphs as there are all sorts of libraries that make this dead
simple.

> >  Before you decide on an environment, you
> > would probably want to commit to test driven development and MVC which
> > almost invites the use of a framework (Cake/Django/RoR). Personally I am
> > biased towards RoR but starting a large scale project in ruby, php or
> > python without using one of the frameworks at this point would be a
> > really poor choice. There are a number of PHP based accounting systems
> > out there which you could probably fork but why? They all missed the
> > boat somewhere, somehow.
> 
> Unsure what you mean by 'framework'.

Framework is the core of any application. It's well known terminology
for anyone who has done software development...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_framework

If you don't adopt an existing framework, then you have to create your
own framework as your application develops sucking an inordinate amount
of time and given to endless refactoring as your application evolves.

Recognize that by admitting you were unsure of what a framework is w/r/t
software development provides a clear recognition that you really don't
have any experience with software development.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model%E2%80%93view%E2%80%93controller
Anyone who has developed software that embraces MVC will never want to
work on a project that doesn't.

> 
> Simple to write, harder to ensure everything integrates well. Probably 3
> to 4 months part-time. Easy and intuitive to use and delivering what the
> users want plus scope for customisation.

I'm sort of done with this thread. No reason to try to seriously discuss
something with someone who knows nothing about what they write.

Craig


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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[sebastiano]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 00:01:23 +0100, Always Learning wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 00:35 +0200, Sebastiano Pilla wrote:
>
>> [root@picard ~]# ll /etc/yum.repos.d/
>> total 20K
>> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1.9K Feb  8  2011 CentOS-Base.repo
>> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  631 Feb  8  2011 CentOS-Debuginfo.repo
>> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  626 Feb  8  2011 CentOS-Media.repo
>> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.6K Feb  8  2011 CentOS-Vault.repo
>
> Please add an extra repo to the same directory
>
> name: (your own choice) - something like this: centos-cr.repo
>
> ---contents-
>
> # CentOS-CR.repo
> #
> # The continuous release  ( CR ) repository contains rpms from the
> # next point release of CentOS, which isnt itself released as yet.
> #
> # Look at http://wiki.centos.org/AdditionalResources/Repositories/CR
> # for more details about how this repository works and what users
> # should expect to see included / excluded
>
> [cr]
> name=CentOS-$releasever - CR
> baseurl=http://mirror.centos.org/centos/$releasever/cr/$basearch/
> gpgcheck=1
> enabled=1
> gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-CentOS-5
>
>
> ---end-- (do not include this line)

I get the same segmentation fault, I don't think that adding this new 
repository is going to change the fact that somehow the files for the 
base repository are corrupted:

[root@picard yum.repos.d]# yum clean all
Loaded plugins: downloadonly, fastestmirror, priorities
Cleaning up Everything
Cleaning up list of fastest mirrors
[root@picard yum.repos.d]# yum install httpd
Loaded plugins: downloadonly, fastestmirror, priorities
Determining fastest mirrors
  * base: mirror.opendoc.net
  * extras: mirror.opendoc.net
  * updates: mirror.opendoc.net
base| 1.1 kB 
00:00
base/primary| 961 kB 
00:00
Segmentation fault
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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Christopher Chan]

On Thursday, September 15, 2011 08:21 PM, Always Learning wrote:

> The integrity of the data can be divided into two aspects: ensuring the
> data remains constant (unaltered) while stored, which is the
> responsibility of the operation system and the database software, and
> the data's integrity from an application perspective. Junk-in always
> causes Junk-out even when using 'non-dumb' databases :-)
>

Did you mentor DJB?

:-D
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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Christopher Chan]

On Thursday, September 15, 2011 09:08 AM, John R Pierce wrote:
> On 09/14/11 6:03 PM, Thomas Dukes wrote:
>>> One day, if I have time, I want to programme a complete
   commercial accounts systems using HTML, PHP and MySQL. Its a
   piece of cake to do well (meaning easily) but a little time
   consuming. The only difficulty I can think of is printing
   things locally.
>> I love the challenge. I'm a hacker from way back. While this sort of stuff
>> isn't humorous now days and since I've 'grown up', I understand why. Still,
>> I love it!!
>
> an accounting system thats in plain HTML would be incredibly clunky to
> use.  you really want to do this in ajax/jquery or whatever so its more
> interactive
>
> also, I'd suggest using postgresql for better data integrity, and
> anything-but-php (Python?) for better webside security.
>

How about perl with postgresql? sql-ledger - double entry goodness. Sure 
shorts out my brain when I try to contemplate creating the COA,
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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Craig White]

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 08:22 +0200, Sebastiano Pilla wrote:
> Craig White wrote:
> > make sure that there isn't any yum/rpm processes running...
> > ps aux|grep yum
> > ps aux|grep rpm
> >
> > Once you've determined they aren't running, try...
> >
> > yum clean metadata
> > yum clean dbcache
> >
> > (those should be executed when you execute 'yum clean all' but maybe it 
> > ain't gettin' done)
> >
> > and then
> > yum update
> 
> Segmentation fault again:
> 
> [root@picard yum.repos.d]# ps aux | grep yum
> root 18050  0.0  0.0   4016   684 pts/1   S+   08:21   0:00 grep yum
> [root@picard yum.repos.d]# ps aux | grep rpm 
> 
> root 18052  0.0  0.0   4016   684 pts/1   S+   08:21   0:00 grep rpm
> [root@picard yum.repos.d]# yum clean metadata
> Loaded plugins: downloadonly, fastestmirror, priorities
> 6 metadata files removed
> 1 sqlite files removed
> 0 metadata files removed
> [root@picard yum.repos.d]# yum clean dbcache
> Loaded plugins: downloadonly, fastestmirror, priorities
> 0 sqlite files removed
> [root@picard yum.repos.d]# yum update 
> 
> Loaded plugins: downloadonly, fastestmirror, priorities
> Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile
>   * base: mirror.opendoc.net
>   * extras: mirror.opendoc.net
>   * updates: mirror.opendoc.net
> base  | 1.1 kB 00:00
> base/primary  | 961 kB 00:00
> Segmentation fault

sounds like someone did some manual mucking in /etc/yum.repos.d

You probably want to start disabling some of the configured repo's
in /etc/yum.repos.d... 'enabled = 0' - I'd probably start by making sure
that all non-CentOS repo's were disabled though it does seem like you
don't get very far through the repo list.

At the point where you stop getting the segfault, you will be able to
identify which repo has a configuration issue.

Craig


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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[sebastiano]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 14:10:50 +0200, sebasti...@datafaber.net wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 14:44:59 +0800, Fajar Priyanto wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Kahlil Hodgson
>>  wrote:
>>> Perhaps your are downloading the same corrupted primary.xml.gz
>>> from mirror.opendoc.net.  Maybe try another mirror?  Perhaps
>>> download
>>> the file manually and compare?
>
> This is a good idea, however I don't know how can I force yum to use
> another mirror. Do you have any suggestion?

Update: yum chose to use another mirror and it failed in the exact same 
way.

[root@picard yum.repos.d]# yum repolist
Loaded plugins: downloadonly, fastestmirror, priorities
Determining fastest mirrors
  * base: mirrors.ircam.fr
  * extras: mirrors.ircam.fr
  * updates: mirrors.ircam.fr
base   | 1.1 kB 00:00
base/primary   | 961 kB 00:00
Segmentation fault

So either several mirrors all have the same corrupted file, or my box 
is generating a corrupted file each time. I would tend towards the 
second hypothesis, since other people have successfully updated their 
5.6 installations to 5.7.
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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Always Learning]

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 05:16 -0700, Craig White wrote:


> Gmagic/Imagick are somewhat incapable of doing graphing at all.

Have you ever really looked ? What about GmagickDraw::point and similar
items ?

> You would likely use a flash or google charts implementation these days
>  to generate graphs as there are all sorts of libraries that make this
>  dead simple.

No Flash. It is a known security danger and stores, without the user's
knowledge and permission, files on the user's hard disk which are not
removed by normal browser behaviour. If it can be done, I prefer to do
it with PHP.  Open Source HTML 5 should replace Flash.

> Framework is the core of any application. It's well known terminology
> for anyone who has done software development...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_framework

Untrue. The 'framework' seems like a nightmare 

"...  software frameworks consist of frozen spots and hot spots ...

"... Hot spots represent those parts where the programmers using the
framework add their own code to add the functionality specific to their
own project

"... Software frameworks define the places in the architecture where
application programmers may make adaptations for specific functionality—
the hot spots. 

"... Without a framework though, "there is no such thing as a component"

"... consists of abstract and concrete classes ...

"... framework consists of composing and subclassing ...

"... When developing a concrete software system with a software
framework, developers utilize the hot spots according to the specific
needs and requirements of the system.

"... Software frameworks rely on the Hollywood Principle: "Don't call
us, we'll call you."[12] This means that the user-defined classes (for
example, new subclasses), receive messages from the predefined framework
classes. Developers usually handle this by implementing superclass
abstract methods."

NO THANKS. Frameworks is certainly not for me. It seems like a gigantic
and over-complicated time-waster.

> If you don't adopt an existing framework, then you have to create your
> own framework as your application develops sucking an inordinate amount
> of time and given to endless refactoring as your application evolves.

Disagree. 'Keep it Simple' is my preference. Don't complicate things.
Framework crap is probably why so many multi-million pounds or dollars
computer projects fail so abysmally. In Britain the public sector is
littered with them, while computer companies make millions and millions
of pounds profit from failed projects.

> Recognize that by admitting you were unsure of what a framework is w/r/t
> software development provides a clear recognition that you really don't
> have any experience with software development.

I have 44 years computer programming experience. I have seen enormous
amounts of time-wasting, and usually money generating, crap with
wonderful names and impressive waffle, presented by men wearing very
expensive new suits and ultra shinny black shoes. Sometimes they offer
bribes to get the contract. I have developed a basic aversion to
anything which creates an unnecessary complication or overhead.

Perhaps you really lack a clear understanding about the Art of
Programming effectively and efficiently. Frameworks is just another
complicated idea which slows application development and costs
unnecessary sums of money.

I am honest about computers. I have no intention of claiming I know
about 'frameworks' when I do not. Many so-called 'computer experts'
routinely lie and talk in jargon to conceal their limited understanding.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model%E2%80%93view%E2%80%93controller
> Anyone who has developed software that embraces MVC will never want to
> work on a project that doesn't.

Here we go again .

"Though MVC comes in different flavors, control flow is generally as
follows:

 1. The user interacts with the user interface in some way (for
example, by pressing a mouse button).
 2. The controller handles the input event from the user interface,
often via a registered handler or callback, and converts the
event into an appropriate user action, understandable for the
model.
 3. The controller notifies the model of the user action, possibly
resulting in a change in the model's state. (For example, the
controller updates the user's shopping cart.)[4]
 4. A view queries the model in order to generate an appropriate
user interface (for example the view lists the shopping cart's
contents). The view gets its own data from the model. In some
implementations, the controller may issue a general instruction
to the view to render itself. In others, the view is
automatically notified by the model of changes in state
(Observer) that require a screen update.
 5. The user interface waits for further user interactions, which
restarts the control flow cycle."

Among other things, 

Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Always Learning]

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 20:41 +0800, Christopher Chan wrote:

> On Thursday, September 15, 2011 08:21 PM, Always Learning wrote:
> 
> > The integrity of the data can be divided into two aspects: ensuring the
> > data remains constant (unaltered) while stored, which is the
> > responsibility of the operation system and the database software, and
> > the data's integrity from an application perspective. Junk-in always
> > causes Junk-out even when using 'non-dumb' databases :-)

> Did you mentor DJB?

No. Never heard of him/her ... (quick Google) ...Daniel Julius
Bernstei. 


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EU.


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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Always Learning]

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 15:18 +0200, sebasti...@datafaber.net wrote:


> Update: yum chose to use another mirror and it failed in the exact
> same way.

Time for a file check on your disk.



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Re: [CentOS] CentOS 5.6 to 5.7 upgrade

[fred smith]

On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 08:53:44AM +0200, Sorin Srbu wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Almost wish I had something more exciting to say regarding the 5.6 to 5.7
> upgrade, but it just worked flawlessly. Physical as well as virtual
> machines.
> 
> Thanks CentOS-team for your good work!

Seconded!

My update went very well. booted right back up an everthing seems to
be working--except...

for some reason it overwrote my sendmail.cf rather than dropping in 
a sendmail.cf.rpmnew as it has done in the past, so after several hours
I noticed I wasn't getting any incoming email. after a little flailing
this morning (not having yet had any caffeine) I realized I should 
look at that. copied my version in, bounced sendmail and off to the races!

Fred


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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Steve Walsh]

Always Learning wrote:
> What did you expect ?  Its not Windoze ;-)
>   
Hrm. In an effort to pull this thread back onto topic, instead of a "my 
IBM DB2 database is better than your mysql junk anyday" thread, let's 
look back at various known issues over each release cycle;

5.1 - 
http://wiki.centos.org/Manuals/ReleaseNotes/CentOS5.1#head-da845ab1cd8fc52963ad03fdbdefc2bde261b0a6
* Kernel had known issues regarding autofs and nfs
* Typo in /etc/X11/xinit/Xsession
* nautilus-sendto has a require for libgaim.so.0., which no longer 
existed in the CentOS-5 tree

5.2 - 
http://wiki.centos.org/Manuals/ReleaseNotes/CentOS5.2#head-447967c60eb305ef2c5dbbc3f4e8b3c4c5170632
   *The nss_ldap package is broken with bash 3.2 (command 
substitution), causing substitution errors and prevents su - 
 from working.
   * upgrading bind-chroot where the bind update overwrites any of 
the user's custom settings like ROOTDIR=/some/other/path with the 
default ROOTDIR
   * performance issue with 3ware controllers
   * known issue with the kernel that prevents it from booting.

5.3 - 
http://wiki.centos.org/Manuals/ReleaseNotes/CentOS5.3#head-198f803bc13b52348780db429ae42e0daf82282b
   * Known issue with rpm and glibc updates that required a specific 
upgrade path.
   * you need to uninstall openmpi and lam before you can update
   * ntfs code was broken, resulting in centosplus kernel not being 
able to be shiped with ntfs enabled.
   * 5.3 would crash immediately after install on certain 
virtualisation platforms.

5.4 - 
http://wiki.centos.org/Manuals/ReleaseNotes/CentOS5.4#head-29511ff6659f6463d444feb92326ed2232fc8c08
   * known issues with the glibc version and incompatibility under 
vmware.
   * the typo in /etc/X11/xinit/Xsession from 5.1 resurfaces
   * intel video cards would blank screen following the update, 
requiring editing of the xorg.conf and a restart.
   * More known updates to glibc, yum, rpm and python requiring a 
specific update sequence.

5.5 - 
http://wiki.centos.org/Manuals/ReleaseNotes/CentOS5.5#head-2dd2d2fe0b1675dbb12ed3b487df995ddbe2b9eb
   * issues with Virtualbox compatibilty during the upgrade
   * nvidia drivers are not compatible with updated system
   * More intel video card breakage
   * LDAP was lobotomised, requiring configuration changes to operate
   * Performance issues with nvidia controllers resulting in 
sluggish and limited performance.
   * yep, you guessed it, More known updates to glibc, yum, rpm and 
python requiring a specific update sequence.

5.6 - 
http://wiki.centos.org/Manuals/ReleaseNotes/CentOS5.6#head-60758eb5ab66c94f98fda0383fa8c7a8b97b9c53
   * httpd would not start after an update due to ssl and mod_nss issues
   * scsi-target-utils broke iscsi mounts for large disks, requiring 
a downgrade to 5.5 packages to function properly
   * changes to the configuration files for file-backed KVM machines
   * the version of nspr-devel shipped with 5.6 was older than that 
in 5.5 updates
   * potential issues with subversion package
   * kernel errors on some platforms where the system had more than 
3Gb ram.
   * Yay! More known updates to glibc, yum, rpm and python requiring 
a specific update sequence

So, what can wrong? Quite a bit.

Yes, the 'known issues' section on the 5.7 release notes is pretty 
barren, but that doesn't mean that there aren't any bugs at all in the 
product, waiting to bite someone who blindly charged into their update 
crying "Sod off with the backups, we're not using Microsoft products 
here" and run 'yum -y update'.

Steve
   


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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[John Hodrien]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011, Always Learning wrote:

>
> On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 05:16 -0700, Craig White wrote:
>
>
>> Gmagic/Imagick are somewhat incapable of doing graphing at all.
>
> Have you ever really looked ? What about GmagickDraw::point and similar
> items ?

I think the risk of the KISS approach is that you tend to reimplement
everything, because everything everyone else has done is overcomplicated.

It's not that you *can't* do all this yourself, but that you're possibly
dealing with life at a layer or two lower than you might.  Simply by using an
existing library (say jpgraph, but it's chosen at random) you get a load of
functionality (that gets improved over time) without having to implement any
of it yourself.  You're not simply producing a graph, you're producing code
that draws a graph and then drawing a graph.  Why write the code?

I much prefer other people's bugs to my own, as there's a chance they'll fix
it, or failing that, I can fix their bug and the world's a better place.

jh
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Re: [CentOS] trouble booting install CD on old machine

[fred smith]

On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 09:57:54PM -0700, Keith Keller wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm having a bit of an issue booting the full 5.7 install CD on an older
> machine.  I downloaded the ISOs earlier today, checked the sha1sums, and
> burned the CDs with no reported errors.  But when I try to boot, the
> isolinux banner comes up quickly, but then instead of the boot prompt, I
> get a completely blank screen.  After 30-60 seconds, I get a message in
> purple, the exact wording I don't recall, but something like "can't
> boot, please restart".
> 
> Many years ago I put CentOS 4 on this machine, so I know it can boot CD
> media, and earlier today I booted an older UBCD, so I know that it can
> successfully boot from CD at the present time.  (I didn't have time to
> test the CD I burned in another box; I will do that next time I have the
> CD.)
> 
> What other options do I have for getting 5.7 on this box?  I have a few
> ideas:
> 
> --do some troubleshooting with the 5.7 CD.  I don't really know how to
> go about this, and there's no guarantee it'll end up with being able to
> boot in the end.
> --perhaps an older CentOS 5 ISO will work better?  Testing this will be
> fairly quick but is not sure to work.
> --remove the system disk, put it into another system that is known to
> boot the 5.7 CD, install there, then put the disk back.  This could be
> somewhat time consuming (the machine is in a rack, and the system drive
> is buried in the chassis, not hot-swappable), but is pretty sure to work.
> --try to boot from USB.  As I said, it's an old box, so I'm not sure it
> supports booting over USB media.  There were no "boot from USB" options
> in the BIOS; I could try to flash the firmware, but that seems excessive
> for this sort of issue.
> 
> Other thoughts/suggestions?  Any ideas why I'd be seeing this particular
> boot behavior?  It's not something I've seen before; either booting
> fails before even reaching isolinux, or the kernel panics on finding some
> exotic and/or broken piece of hardware.
> 
> --keith
> 
> -- 
> kkel...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
> 

Keith, I don't see that you identify what sort of old machine you're
trying to use.

You should be aware that current versions of Centos/RHEL REQUIRE some 
flavor of i686-class processor at minimum. that means Pentium Pro/Pentium II
or later. 

Of course, you may also be hitting some situation where there's some really
obsolete hardware in the machine for which newer systems don't have the
driver built in.

or a bad image burn, too, since you say you haven't yet tested it.

Good luck!

-- 
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"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of
 heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[John Hodrien]

This whole thing has gone wildly OT, so I'll check out on this post.

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011, Always Learning wrote:

> Hopefully that is always possible - retrieving EXACTLY what was stored
> in the database. Why would one want the database to manipulate (change)
> data ? Is that a solution for lazy programming ?

In the ideal world, a database has sufficient internal intelligence to make
sure that you don't get impossible data stored.  It doesn't mean you can't
have wrong data, but you at least keep the database in a sane state.  Without
this intelligence, your database becomes a bucket of data, where the only
controls are in the application.  A bug in the application means issues with
the validity of the database.

> Simplicity and good design makes applications fast.
>
> If an application is fast and effective, because of its design and
> simplicity, why complicate it ?  A SQL View is an additional overhead
> and not needed, in my opinion, in (my) well-designed systems.

But you see database simplicity as being simple, but ignore code simplicity.
I don't get why you see them separately.  I'm not saying every database you
produce should be loaded with every feature you've read about in a book.  But
a constraint here and there, and a mostly normalised database isn't a bad
thing.  If you're not joining tables ever, your tables are probably poorly
designed, or you're doing database work in your application.  There's just a
rumbling suspicion throughout this that you don't really need a database.

>> I think with most applications like you're describing people have a
>>  decision to make as to how much logic goes in the DB and how much goes
>>  in the app. When you're new to it, I think you tend to put all the
>>  logic in the application.  As you progress I think you at the very
>>  least put in controls into the database to maintain the integrity of
>>  the data.
>
> As one becomes more knowledgeable and accustomed to things, one
> inevitably regards the database and applications as being integral parts
> of the same system. Efficient retrieval of stored data should be a
> paramount consideration for the good design of applications.
>
> Unsure why you mean by "at the very least put in controls into the
> database to maintain the integrity of the data."
>
> The integrity of the data can be divided into two aspects: ensuring the
> data remains constant (unaltered) while stored, which is the
> responsibility of the operation system and the database software, and
> the data's integrity from an application perspective. Junk-in always
> causes Junk-out even when using 'non-dumb' databases :-)

Thing is, that's just not true.  Junk-in *can* cause junk-out, or it can cause
a runtime error and refuse to let you store the junk.  I'm biased in favour of
the latter, but you're not going to get that unless you load your database
with more logic.

By all means do things your own way, nobody's going to stop you.

jh
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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[sebastiano]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 14:30:01 +0100, Always Learning wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 15:18 +0200, sebasti...@datafaber.net wrote:
>
>
>> Update: yum chose to use another mirror and it failed in the exact
>> same way.

I could do that, but it is again extremely unlikely that 6 disks on 6 
different boxes fail in the exact same way when running the same yum 
command... I'll keep that as the last option before a complete wipe and 
reinstall.
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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[m . roth]

Top note: I missed this whole thread, being on the east coast of the US,
and it came in overnight.

Always Learning wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 05:16 -0700, Craig White wrote:

>> You would likely use a flash or google charts implementation these days
>>  to generate graphs as there are all sorts of libraries that make this
>>  dead simple.
>
> No Flash. It is a known security danger and stores, without the user's

Flash, for reports? That's like the VeryLargeCorporate website I saw a few
years ago, that had a bloody FLASH VIDEO on the search page for jobs, with
some actress (or HR person) telling me about their "hot jobs" (gee, I'm
know nothing about that field, but it's Hot, so I think I'll apply!!!)

Not good enough for Hollywood or the ad agencies, so they want to make
video for NO good reason. Style over content.
>
>> Framework is the core of any application. It's well known terminology
>> for anyone who has done software development...
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_framework
>
> Untrue. The 'framework' seems like a nightmare 

I agree. Why use a framework when you just need to know what library
functions to call.

This is, in fact, a part of my rant, which I will someday write as a
paper, on the failure of OOP (Jan, 1994: IEEE Spectrum cover, where OOP
was *literally* presented as the silver bullet to the software backlog).

In short: you want a clipping from Godzilla's toenail, and, using OOP and
frameworks, you call in Godzilla, and put a frame around his (her?)
toenail.

Looking up the word "bloatware" is left as an exercise for the reader.

> "... Software frameworks rely on the Hollywood Principle: "Don't call
> us, we'll call you."[12] This means that the user-defined classes (for
> example, new subclasses), receive messages from the predefined framework
> classes. Developers usually handle this by implementing superclass
> abstract methods."
>
> NO THANKS. Frameworks is certainly not for me. It seems like a gigantic
> and over-complicated time-waster.

Ah, yes. About 5 years ago, I was teaching myself java, and using, um,
swing? struts? I forget, and trying to get information out of a whatsit
that controlled a button was like trying to scratch your ear by reaching
between your legs. IIRC, I had to define a bloody *global* to get info
out, which violates *every* part of OOP, and even good programming.
>
>> If you don't adopt an existing framework, then you have to create your
>> own framework as your application develops sucking an inordinate amount
>> of time and given to endless refactoring as your application evolves.
>
> Disagree. 'Keep it Simple' is my preference. Don't complicate things.

Right. Write a main line, add stubs, put library calls in stubs. Unless
you write spaghetti code, you're not talking more than, say, 100 lines of
main line. So, how's that "an inordinate amount of time" creating a
framework?
You do have to sit and think, first

> I have 44 years computer programming experience. I have seen enormous

Beat me - I "only" started doing it for a living in 1980 (after two years
of classes).

mark, KISS

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Re: [CentOS] CentOS 5.6 to 5.7 upgrade

[m . roth]

fred smith wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 08:53:44AM +0200, Sorin Srbu wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Almost wish I had something more exciting to say regarding the 5.6 to
>> 5.7
>> upgrade, but it just worked flawlessly. Physical as well as virtual
>> machines.
>>
>> Thanks CentOS-team for your good work!
>
> Seconded!
>
> My update went very well. booted right back up an everthing seems to
> be working--except...

For us, it's breaking an ssh-restrict script we use with rsync for
backups, mangling some passed wildcards.

mark

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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[m . roth]

John Hodrien wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Sep 2011, Always Learning wrote:
>> On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 05:16 -0700, Craig White wrote:
>>
>>> Gmagic/Imagick are somewhat incapable of doing graphing at all.
>>
>> Have you ever really looked ? What about GmagickDraw::point and similar
>> items ?
>
> I think the risk of the KISS approach is that you tend to reimplement
> everything, because everything everyone else has done is overcomplicated.

The "danger" of KISS approach? So, you endorse complex and complicated
schemes? And here I thought that the True Believers in OO asserted that
OOP was cleaner, simpler, and easier.

mark

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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[sebastiano]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 05:57:02 -0700, Craig White wrote:
> sounds like someone did some manual mucking in /etc/yum.repos.d
>
> You probably want to start disabling some of the configured repo's
> in /etc/yum.repos.d... 'enabled = 0' - I'd probably start by making 
> sure
> that all non-CentOS repo's were disabled though it does seem like you
> don't get very far through the repo list.
>
> At the point where you stop getting the segfault, you will be able to
> identify which repo has a configuration issue.

That was a very good idea, I have tried it:

- if I disable all repositories I get no errors but no updates (which 
is normal)
- if I enable [base] only I get the segmentation fault
- if I enable [updates] only I get the following output, which confirms 
that yum at least partially works: the missing package is in the [base] 
repository, which is the one that gives the error

[root@picard yum.repos.d]# yum update
Loaded plugins: downloadonly, fastestmirror, priorities
Determining fastest mirrors
  * updates: mirror.opendoc.net
updates 
| 1.9 kB 00:00
updates/primary_db  
| 134 kB 00:00
Excluding Packages in global exclude list
Finished
Setting up Update Process
Resolving Dependencies
--> Running transaction check
---> Package curl.i386 0:7.15.5-9.el5_7.4 set to be updated
---> Package curl-devel.i386 0:7.15.5-9.el5_7.4 set to be updated
---> Package dbus.i386 0:1.1.2-16.el5_7 set to be updated
---> Package dbus-libs.i386 0:1.1.2-16.el5_7 set to be updated
---> Package device-mapper-multipath.i386 0:0.4.7-46.el5_7.1 set to be 
updated
---> Package dhclient.i386 12:3.0.5-29.el5_7.1 set to be updated
---> Package dhcp.i386 12:3.0.5-29.el5_7.1 set to be updated
---> Package kernel.i686 0:2.6.18-274.3.1.el5 set to be installed
---> Package kernel-devel.i686 0:2.6.18-274.3.1.el5 set to be installed
---> Package kernel-headers.i386 0:2.6.18-274.3.1.el5 set to be updated
---> Package kpartx.i386 0:0.4.7-46.el5_7.1 set to be updated
---> Package libXfont.i386 0:1.2.2-1.0.4.el5_7 set to be updated
---> Package libpng.i386 2:1.2.10-7.1.el5_7.5 set to be updated
---> Package libpng-devel.i386 2:1.2.10-7.1.el5_7.5 set to be updated
---> Package lvm2.i386 0:2.02.84-6.el5_7.1 set to be updated
--> Processing Dependency: device-mapper >= 1.02.63-2 for package: lvm2
---> Package nspr.i386 0:4.8.8-1.el5_7 set to be updated
---> Package nss.i386 0:3.12.10-4.el5.centos set to be updated
---> Package openssh.i386 0:4.3p2-72.el5_7.5 set to be updated
---> Package openssh-clients.i386 0:4.3p2-72.el5_7.5 set to be updated
---> Package openssh-server.i386 0:4.3p2-72.el5_7.5 set to be updated
---> Package rsync.i386 0:3.0.6-4.el5_7.1 set to be updated
---> Package tzdata.i386 0:2011h-2.el5 set to be updated
--> Finished Dependency Resolution
lvm2-2.02.84-6.el5_7.1.i386 from updates has depsolving problems
   --> Missing Dependency: device-mapper >= 1.02.63-2 is needed by 
package lvm2-2.02.84-6.el5_7.1.i386 (updates)
--> Running transaction check
---> Package kernel.i686 0:2.6.18-194.32.1.el5 set to be erased
---> Package kernel-devel.i686 0:2.6.18-194.32.1.el5 set to be erased
---> Package lvm2.i386 0:2.02.84-6.el5_7.1 set to be updated
--> Processing Dependency: device-mapper >= 1.02.63-2 for package: lvm2
--> Finished Dependency Resolution
lvm2-2.02.84-6.el5_7.1.i386 from updates has depsolving problems
   --> Missing Dependency: device-mapper >= 1.02.63-2 is needed by 
package lvm2-2.02.84-6.el5_7.1.i386 (updates)
Error: Missing Dependency: device-mapper >= 1.02.63-2 is needed by 
package lvm2-2.02.84-6.el5_7.1.i386 (updates)
  You could try using --skip-broken to work around the problem
  You could try running: package-cleanup --problems
 package-cleanup --dupes
 rpm -Va --nofiles --nodigest

I'm gonna try to download and install the missing package manually, 
then try the yum update again.
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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Always Learning]

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 14:42 +0100, John Hodrien wrote:

> I think the risk of the KISS approach is that you tend to reimplement
> everything, because everything everyone else has done is overcomplicated.

I share coding within systems (because it means just a single
alternation each time) and have general routines available to all
applications. My definition of programming efficiency excludes senseless
re-implementations of coding.

> It's not that you *can't* do all this yourself, but that you're possibly
> dealing with life at a layer or two lower than you might.  Simply by using an
> existing library (say jpgraph, but it's chosen at random) you get a load of
> functionality (that gets improved over time) without having to implement any
> of it yourself.  You're not simply producing a graph, you're producing code
> that draws a graph and then drawing a graph.  Why write the code?

In this instance I would use a GMagick Draw function from with a
routine. The PHP coding would be minimal and straight-forward.


Paul.

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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Fajar Priyanto]

Stupid question. 
Can we uninstall yum? And install again using manual rpm. 


나의 iPhone에서 보냄
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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Tony Mountifield]

In article ,
  wrote:
> John Hodrien wrote:
> > On Thu, 15 Sep 2011, Always Learning wrote:
> >> On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 05:16 -0700, Craig White wrote:
> >>
> >>> Gmagic/Imagick are somewhat incapable of doing graphing at all.
> >>
> >> Have you ever really looked ? What about GmagickDraw::point and similar
> >> items ?
> >
> > I think the risk of the KISS approach is that you tend to reimplement
> > everything, because everything everyone else has done is overcomplicated.
> 
> The "danger" of KISS approach? So, you endorse complex and complicated
> schemes? And here I thought that the True Believers in OO asserted that
> OOP was cleaner, simpler, and easier.

As Einstein said once: "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler."

More to the point would be: "Judging something *solely* on its simplicity
is an overly simplistic approach." -- Kiel Hodges. This appears to me
to be the trap that Paul Always Learning has fallen into.

Cheers
Tony
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Work: t...@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: t...@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org
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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Always Learning]

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 14:30 +, Tony Mountifield wrote:


> More to the point would be: "Judging something *solely* on its
> simplicity is an overly simplistic approach." -- Kiel Hodges. This
> appears to me to be the trap that Paul Always Learning has fallen
> into.

Judge my systems on their:-

1. functionality (i.e. doing what is required)
2. speed
3. ease of use
4. ease of maintenance


-- 
With best regards,

Paul.
England,
EU.


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Re: [CentOS] trouble booting install CD on old machine

[Christopher Hawker]

This is just a random idea, but could you have burned the cd at a
speed higher than the optical drive can read? I burn all my software
at 4x because i know it will then work in any and every machine.

 - Christopher Hawker

On 9/15/11, Keith Keller  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm having a bit of an issue booting the full 5.7 install CD on an older
> machine.  I downloaded the ISOs earlier today, checked the sha1sums, and
> burned the CDs with no reported errors.  But when I try to boot, the
> isolinux banner comes up quickly, but then instead of the boot prompt, I
> get a completely blank screen.  After 30-60 seconds, I get a message in
> purple, the exact wording I don't recall, but something like "can't
> boot, please restart".
>
> Many years ago I put CentOS 4 on this machine, so I know it can boot CD
> media, and earlier today I booted an older UBCD, so I know that it can
> successfully boot from CD at the present time.  (I didn't have time to
> test the CD I burned in another box; I will do that next time I have the
> CD.)
>
> What other options do I have for getting 5.7 on this box?  I have a few
> ideas:
>
> --do some troubleshooting with the 5.7 CD.  I don't really know how to
> go about this, and there's no guarantee it'll end up with being able to
> boot in the end.
> --perhaps an older CentOS 5 ISO will work better?  Testing this will be
> fairly quick but is not sure to work.
> --remove the system disk, put it into another system that is known to
> boot the 5.7 CD, install there, then put the disk back.  This could be
> somewhat time consuming (the machine is in a rack, and the system drive
> is buried in the chassis, not hot-swappable), but is pretty sure to work.
> --try to boot from USB.  As I said, it's an old box, so I'm not sure it
> supports booting over USB media.  There were no "boot from USB" options
> in the BIOS; I could try to flash the firmware, but that seems excessive
> for this sort of issue.
>
> Other thoughts/suggestions?  Any ideas why I'd be seeing this particular
> boot behavior?  It's not something I've seen before; either booting
> fails before even reaching isolinux, or the kernel panics on finding some
> exotic and/or broken piece of hardware.
>
> --keith
>
> --
> kkel...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
>
>


-- 
 If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to call me on +61 478 241
896.

Regards,
Christopher Hawker
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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Tony Mountifield]

In article <1316097747.32765.118.ca...@m6.u226.com>,
Always Learning  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 14:30 +, Tony Mountifield wrote:
> 
> > More to the point would be: "Judging something *solely* on its
> > simplicity is an overly simplistic approach." -- Kiel Hodges. This
> > appears to me to be the trap that Paul Always Learning has fallen
> > into.
> 
> Judge my systems on their:-
> 
>   1. functionality (i.e. doing what is required)
>   2. speed
>   3. ease of use
>   4. ease of maintenance

I can't do that, since I know nothing about them. All I can judge are
the comments you make here, such as your apparently simplistic view of
SQL and relational databases. For example, joins and views are
efficient and powerful if used correctly with a properly-designed
database, and relieve the application code of a lot of complexity,
reinvented wheels and scope for errors.  Describing such constructs as
merely a complex overhead betrays a lack of understanding and a
reluctance to continue "always learning".

Cheers
Tony
-- 
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Work: t...@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: t...@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org
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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[m . roth]

Tony Mountifield wrote:
> In article ,
>   wrote:
>> John Hodrien wrote:
>> > On Thu, 15 Sep 2011, Always Learning wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 05:16 -0700, Craig White wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Gmagic/Imagick are somewhat incapable of doing graphing at all.
>> >>
>> >> Have you ever really looked ? What about GmagickDraw::point and
>> >> similar items ?
>> >
>> > I think the risk of the KISS approach is that you tend to reimplement
>> > everything, because everything everyone else has done is
>> > overcomplicated.
>>
>> The "danger" of KISS approach? So, you endorse complex and complicated
>> schemes? And here I thought that the True Believers in OO asserted that
>> OOP was cleaner, simpler, and easier.
>
> As Einstein said once: "Make everything as simple as possible, but not
> simpler."
>
> More to the point would be: "Judging something *solely* on its simplicity
> is an overly simplistic approach." -- Kiel Hodges. This appears to me
> to be the trap that Paul Always Learning has fallen into.

I think you don't know enough of Paul's (or my) style to suggest that he's
fallen into any trap.

And my style, for stuff that's intended to be permanent, is aimed at
elegance, not cleverness. Cleverness is defined as that 02:00 or Fri,
16:45 phone call, followed by hours of "what the hell did I do last
year?". Elegance, and KISS, is fixing the problem and going back to sleep
or leaving on time.

  mark

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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Craig White]

On Sep 15, 2011, at 7:18 AM, sebasti...@datafaber.net wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 05:57:02 -0700, Craig White wrote:
>> sounds like someone did some manual mucking in /etc/yum.repos.d
>> 
>> You probably want to start disabling some of the configured repo's
>> in /etc/yum.repos.d... 'enabled = 0' - I'd probably start by making 
>> sure
>> that all non-CentOS repo's were disabled though it does seem like you
>> don't get very far through the repo list.
>> 
>> At the point where you stop getting the segfault, you will be able to
>> identify which repo has a configuration issue.
> 
> That was a very good idea, I have tried it:
> 
> - if I disable all repositories I get no errors but no updates (which 
> is normal)
> - if I enable [base] only I get the segmentation fault
> - if I enable [updates] only I get the following output, which confirms 
> that yum at least partially works: the missing package is in the [base] 
> repository, which is the one that gives the error
> 
> [root@picard yum.repos.d]# yum update
> Loaded plugins: downloadonly, fastestmirror, priorities
> Determining fastest mirrors
>  * updates: mirror.opendoc.net
> updates 
>| 1.9 kB 00:00
> updates/primary_db  
>| 134 kB 00:00
> Excluding Packages in global exclude list
> Finished
> Setting up Update Process
> Resolving Dependencies
> --> Running transaction check
<<>>
>  You could try using --skip-broken to work around the problem
>  You could try running: package-cleanup --problems
> package-cleanup --dupes
> rpm -Va --nofiles --nodigest

might be hard to run package-cleanup without having base enabled but I would 
certainly recommend that you run 'rpm -Va [--nofiles --nodigest]' to identify 
the broken dependencies - apparently something that the base repository really 
believes should be there no matter what.

Craig

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Re: [CentOS] trouble booting install CD on old machine

[Keith Keller]

On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 09:46:44AM -0400, fred smith wrote:
> 
> Keith, I don't see that you identify what sort of old machine you're
> trying to use.

Ah, sorry: it's a beige box dual-core x86_64.  So I am guessing that...

> You should be aware that current versions of Centos/RHEL REQUIRE some 
> flavor of i686-class processor at minimum. that means Pentium Pro/Pentium II
> or later. 

...this doesn't apply; there were no such changes in the 64 bit branch,
were there?  I couldn't find anything in my searching yesterday.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 01:06:01AM +1000, Christopher Hawker wrote:
> This is just a random idea, but could you have burned the cd at a
> speed higher than the optical drive can read? I burn all my software
> at 4x because i know it will then work in any and every machine.

That's a definite possibility!  The machine I used for burning is also
older, but its burner is definitely better than the drive on the target,
which can't even read DVDs (as I found out when I tried to boot a CentOS
5 DVD I already had).  I will try a new CD at a slower speed and see if
it helps--it's a very quick operation, so even if it fails it's not
much wasted time.

--keith

-- 
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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[sebastiano]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 08:42:42 -0700, Craig White wrote:
> might be hard to run package-cleanup without having base enabled but
> I would certainly recommend that you run 'rpm -Va [--nofiles
> --nodigest]' to identify the broken dependencies - apparently
> something that the base repository really believes should be there no
> matter what.

I get no output at all from this command, perhaps I have misunderstood 
the flags?

[root@picard ~]# rpm -Va --nofiles --nodigest
[root@picard ~]#

In the meantime I have found an interesting data point:

[root@picard ~]# yum clean all
Loaded plugins: fastestmirror
Cleaning up Everything
Cleaning up list of fastest mirrors
[root@picard ~]# yum update
Loaded plugins: fastestmirror
Determining fastest mirrors
  * base: mirror.ash.fastserv.com
  * extras: mirror.net.cen.ct.gov
  * updates: mirror.7x24web.net
base | 1.1 kB 00:00
base/primary | 961 kB 00:00
Segmentation fault
[root@picard ~]# ll /var/cache/yum/base
total 1004K
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root0 Sep 15 19:12 cachecookie
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1017 Sep 15 19:11 mirrorlist.txt
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Jul 10 12:19 packages/
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 961K Sep  5 13:52 primary.xml.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  20K Sep 15 19:12 primary.xml.gz.sqlite
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1.2K Sep  5 13:52 repomd.xml

The file /var/cache/yum/base/primary.xml.gz.sqlite is only 20KB, 
whereas in the "normal" case I'd expect it to be 6.5MB. Somehow, yum is 
failing to regenerate this file for the base repository, and is crashing 
with a segmentation fault when trying to read it. I don't know however 
how to make it generate a correct sqlite file.
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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Nicolas Thierry-Mieg]

sebasti...@datafaber.net wrote:
> The file /var/cache/yum/base/primary.xml.gz.sqlite is only 20KB,
> whereas in the "normal" case I'd expect it to be 6.5MB. Somehow, yum is

you're not out of hard drive space on that partition, are you?
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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Alain Péan]

Le 15/09/2011 18:16, sebasti...@datafaber.net a écrit :
> [root@picard ~]# ll /var/cache/yum/base
> total 1004K
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root0 Sep 15 19:12 cachecookie
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1017 Sep 15 19:11 mirrorlist.txt
> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Jul 10 12:19 packages/
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 961K Sep  5 13:52 primary.xml.gz
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  20K Sep 15 19:12 primary.xml.gz.sqlite
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1.2K Sep  5 13:52 repomd.xml
>
> The file /var/cache/yum/base/primary.xml.gz.sqlite is only 20KB,
> whereas in the "normal" case I'd expect it to be 6.5MB. Somehow, yum is
> failing to regenerate this file for the base repository, and is crashing
> with a segmentation fault when trying to read it. I don't know however
> how to make it generate a correct sqlite file.

It is interesting because I had previously this error :

# yum update

http://mirror.centos.org/centos/5/cr/x86_64/repodata/filelists.sqlite.bz2:
[Errno 14] HTTP Error 404: Not Found
Trying other mirror.
Error: failure: repodata/filelists.sqlite.bz2 from cr: [Errno 256] No
more mirrors to try.

See : http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2011-September/117615.html

And here is the answer from Karanbir Singh :

"unfortunately, you hit an issue that I did not think anyone would see (
but was aware of... ). The issue originates from the fact that the new
CR repo has no sqlite metadata store, its xml only. And your machine was
trying to get the sqlite files - hitting a valid 404, since those files
do not exist."


See the full answer on the thread. So I wonder if it is related... I had 
the CR repo configured, before trying to update. In my case, yum clean 
all worked, but I have indeed a bigger primary.xml.gz.sqlite :
# ls -lh
total 36M

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1,3M sep  6 00:28 primary.xml.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 8,9M sep 14 15:11 primary.xml.gz.sqlite
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1,2K sep  6 00:28 repomd.xml
...

Alain

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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[sebastiano]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 18:33:39 +0200, Nicolas Thierry-Mieg wrote:
> sebasti...@datafaber.net wrote:
>> The file /var/cache/yum/base/primary.xml.gz.sqlite is only 20KB,
>> whereas in the "normal" case I'd expect it to be 6.5MB. Somehow, yum 
>> is
>
> you're not out of hard drive space on that partition, are you?

Not at all:

[root@picard ~]# df -h
FilesystemSize  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda2  35G  3.1G   30G  10% /
/dev/sdb1 1.8T  527G  1.2T  31% /data
/dev/sda1 145M   34M  104M  25% /boot
tmpfs1005M 0 1005M   0% /dev/shm

And there's also plenty of available space on the other 5 boxes which 
exhibit the same issue.
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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[sebastiano]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 18:36:10 +0200, Alain Péan wrote:
> And here is the answer from Karanbir Singh :
>
> "unfortunately, you hit an issue that I did not think anyone would 
> see (
> but was aware of... ). The issue originates from the fact that the 
> new
> CR repo has no sqlite metadata store, its xml only. And your machine 
> was
> trying to get the sqlite files - hitting a valid 404, since those 
> files
> do not exist."

You may be onto something, I've seen that the 5.6 base repo has the 
sqlite metadata store while the 5.7 base repo hasn't it. But the 20K 
sqlite file that yum generates on my boxes looks to have at least 
something related to sqlite inside it rather than the response from a 
404 error:

[root@picard base]# strings /var/cache/yum/base/primary.xml.gz.sqlite
SQLite format 3
{tabledb_infodb_info
CREATE TABLE db_info (dbversion INTEGER, checksum TEXT)
tablepackagespackages
CREATE TABLE packages (  pkgKey INTEGER PRIMARY KEY,  pkgId TEXT,  name 
TEXT,  arch TEXT,  version TEXT,  epoch TEXT,  release TEXT,  summary 
TEXT,  description TEXT,  url TEXT,  time_file INTEGER,  time_build 
INTEGER,  rpm_license TEXT,  rpm_vendor TEXT,  rpm_group TEXT,  
rpm_buildhost TEXT,  rpm_sourcerpm TEXT,  rpm_header_start INTEGER,  
rpm_header_end INTEGER,  rpm_packager TEXT,  size_package INTEGER,  
size_installed INTEGER,  size_archive INTEGER,  location_href TEXT,  
location_base TEXT,  checksum_type TEXT)J
cindexpackagenamepackages
CREATE INDEX packagename ON packages (name)G
aindexpackageIdpackages
CREATE INDEX packageId ON packages (pkgId)
tablefilesfiles
CREATE TABLE files (  name TEXT,  type TEXT,  pkgKey INTEGER)@
Yindexfilenamesfiles
CREATE INDEX filenames ON files (name)
tablerequiresrequires   CREATE TABLE requires (  name TEXT,  flags 
TEXT,  epoch TEXT,  version TEXT,  release TEXT,  pkgKey INTEGER , pre 
BOOLEAN DEFAULT FALSE)L
gindexpkgrequiresrequires
CREATE INDEX pkgrequires on requires (pkgKey)L
eindexrequiresnamerequires
CREATE INDEX requiresname ON requires (name)
gtableprovidesprovides
CREATE TABLE provides (  name TEXT,  flags TEXT,  epoch TEXT,  version 
TEXT,  release TEXT,  pkgKey INTEGER )L
gindexpkgprovidesprovides
CREATE INDEX pkgprovides on provides (pkgKey)
triggerremovalspackagesCREATE TRIGGER removals AFTER DELETE ON packages 
BEGINDELETE FROM files WHERE pkgKey = old.pkgKey;DELETE FROM 
requires WHERE pkgKey = old.pkgKey;DELETE FROM provides WHERE pkgKey 
= old.pkgKey;DELETE FROM conflicts WHERE pkgKey = old.pkgKey;
DELETE FROM obsoletes WHERE pkgKey = old.pkgKey;  ENDL
eindexprovidesnameprovides
CREATE INDEX providesname ON provides (name)
itableconflictsconflicts
CREATE TABLE conflicts (  name TEXT,  flags TEXT,  epoch TEXT,  version 
TEXT,  release TEXT,  pkgKey INTEGER )P
kindexpkgconflictsconflicts
CREATE INDEX pkgconflicts on conflicts (pkgKey)
itableobsoletesobsoletes
CREATE TABLE obsoletes (  name TEXT,  flags TEXT,  epoch TEXT,  version 
TEXT,  release TEXT,  pkgKey INTEGER )P
kindexpkgobsoletesobsoletes
CREATE INDEX pkgobsoletes on obsoletes (pkgKey)


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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Craig White]

On Sep 15, 2011, at 9:16 AM, sebasti...@datafaber.net wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 08:42:42 -0700, Craig White wrote:
>> might be hard to run package-cleanup without having base enabled but
>> I would certainly recommend that you run 'rpm -Va [--nofiles
>> --nodigest]' to identify the broken dependencies - apparently
>> something that the base repository really believes should be there no
>> matter what.
> 
> I get no output at all from this command, perhaps I have misunderstood 
> the flags?

no output means that you haven't changed any of the files I suppose. Seems odd 
but possible.

> 
> [root@picard ~]# rpm -Va --nofiles --nodigest
> [root@picard ~]#
> 
> In the meantime I have found an interesting data point:
> 
> [root@picard ~]# yum clean all
> Loaded plugins: fastestmirror
> Cleaning up Everything
> Cleaning up list of fastest mirrors
> [root@picard ~]# yum update
> Loaded plugins: fastestmirror
> Determining fastest mirrors
>  * base: mirror.ash.fastserv.com
>  * extras: mirror.net.cen.ct.gov
>  * updates: mirror.7x24web.net
> base | 1.1 kB 00:00
> base/primary | 961 kB 00:00
> Segmentation fault
> [root@picard ~]# ll /var/cache/yum/base
> total 1004K
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root0 Sep 15 19:12 cachecookie
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1017 Sep 15 19:11 mirrorlist.txt
> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Jul 10 12:19 packages/
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 961K Sep  5 13:52 primary.xml.gz
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  20K Sep 15 19:12 primary.xml.gz.sqlite
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1.2K Sep  5 13:52 repomd.xml
> 
> The file /var/cache/yum/base/primary.xml.gz.sqlite is only 20KB, 
> whereas in the "normal" case I'd expect it to be 6.5MB. Somehow, yum is 
> failing to regenerate this file for the base repository, and is crashing 
> with a segmentation fault when trying to read it. I don't know however 
> how to make it generate a correct sqlite file.

mv /var/cache/yum/base/primary.xml.gz/sqlite /tmp

and try again I suppose - yes, that file is supposed to be much larger - I 
suspect that it will create a new 'copy' of that file if it fails to find it.

Craig
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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Alain Péan]

Le 15/09/2011 18:37, sebasti...@datafaber.net a écrit :
> On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 18:33:39 +0200, Nicolas Thierry-Mieg wrote:
>> sebasti...@datafaber.net wrote:
>>> The file /var/cache/yum/base/primary.xml.gz.sqlite is only 20KB,
>>> whereas in the "normal" case I'd expect it to be 6.5MB. Somehow, yum
>>> is
>> you're not out of hard drive space on that partition, are you?
> Not at all:
>
> [root@picard ~]# df -h
> FilesystemSize  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
> /dev/sda2  35G  3.1G   30G  10% /
> /dev/sdb1 1.8T  527G  1.2T  31% /data
> /dev/sda1 145M   34M  104M  25% /boot
> tmpfs1005M 0 1005M   0% /dev/shm
>
> And there's also plenty of available space on the other 5 boxes which
> exhibit the same issue.
>

What if you delete (or save elsewhere) the primary.xml.gz.sqlite file ? 
If it is corrupted, it would do no arm, and perhaps it is no more used 
or regenerated if it missing ?

Alain

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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Alain Péan]

Le 15/09/2011 18:44, sebasti...@datafaber.net a écrit :
> You may be onto something, I've seen that the 5.6 base repo has the
> sqlite metadata store while the 5.7 base repo hasn't it. But the 20K
> sqlite file that yum generates on my boxes looks to have at least
> something related to sqlite inside it rather than the response from a
> 404 error:

My (wild) guess would be that this file is corrupted but no more 
downloaded or regenerated, because it's only now a xml file that is now 
used. But when it exists, it is nevertheless read and crashes...

Alain

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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Emmanuel Noobadmin]

On 9/15/11, Always Learning  wrote:
> I have written 20+ complete systems using these and found them to be
> fast and very effective. Everyone who has seen my HTML, CSS, PHP, MySQL
> systems has been favourably impressed (me too!). MySQL is a fast
> database system. Never ever used a SQL join or view, just well designed
> databases with carefully planned tables - that is the art of good
> programming.

So how do you retrieve data that are kept in different tables? Or do
you simply replicate the same data in every single table that needs
it?

> Ajax/Jquery is someone else's parametrised programming language. It adds
> complexity and overhead to what is fundamentally a very basic task. Ajax
> etc. seem to appeal to people who are not good (or natural) programmers.
> Ajax etc. is like programming with boxing gloves on and taking several
> weeks to do it. If they want to use it, let them.

While I'd agree with you somewhat on jQuery and frameworks, AJAX isn't
the same thing. It's just a style of user interface that does make the
application more user-friendly. After all, in the hypothetical
accounting program, wouldn't typing a few letters in the invoicing
page to start displaying a list of possible customers be more
efficient than having to go to a separate search page to list and
select a customer?

>> also, I'd suggest using postgresql for better data integrity, and
>> anything-but-php (Python?) for better webside security.
>
> I have been using MySQL on Linux for about 4 years and never had a
> problem. What security issues has PHP ?

In my largely unresearched opinion, the same security issues that any
server side language might have: careless or naive programmers.
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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Emmanuel Noobadmin]

On 9/15/11, Always Learning  wrote:

>> Next you'll be saying you don't use triggers and constraints either.
>
> Not consciously. Never heard of them.

You should take a look at constraints, they are good for ensuring
certain types of data integrity. For example, it would make the
database to stop situations like somebody trying to insert a record
referring customer #9865 but in fact #9865 doesn't exist, whether it
was an unintentional user error or a bug in the application.


> Hopefully that is always possible - retrieving EXACTLY what was stored
> in the database. Why would one want the database to manipulate (change)
> data ? Is that a solution for lazy programming ?

No, in many situation, it's a more secure method. Databases can have
privileges set. You could have triggers and stored procedures that
update certain records that cannot otherwise be altered by the
application which can be written by a third party. For example, a
stored procedure would require both a debit and credit account for
transferring funds and/or checks that the actual amount is present
before doing it. Without this, a bugged application or rogue user/dev
who run the app with privleged access would be able to transfer funds
that don't exist.


> Simplicity and good design makes applications fast.

For some apps, fast is king. For some, data security and integrity is
ultimate. Would you want your banking transactions to run faster by
stripping out security and validation checks, at the risk that some
dude can transfer all your money into somebody else account? If so,
please let me know your bank account details and access credentials, I
have a program to speed up your banking transactions... ;)

> The integrity of the data can be divided into two aspects: ensuring the
> data remains constant (unaltered) while stored, which is the
> responsibility of the operation system and the database software, and
> the data's integrity from an application perspective. Junk-in always
> causes Junk-out even when using 'non-dumb' databases :-)

And if the database can further ensure that the application cannot put
junk in, whether due to a bug, user error or deliberate fraud, why
not? Especially when it's likely to be faster because it's native
code.
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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[m . roth]

Emmanuel Noobadmin wrote:
> On 9/15/11, Always Learning  wrote:
>> I have written 20+ complete systems using these and found them to be
>> fast and very effective. Everyone who has seen my HTML, CSS, PHP, MySQL
>> systems has been favourably impressed (me too!). MySQL is a fast
>> database system. Never ever used a SQL join or view, just well designed
>> databases with carefully planned tables - that is the art of good
>> programming.
>
> So how do you retrieve data that are kept in different tables? Or do
> you simply replicate the same data in every single table that needs
> it?
>
I've done a lot of what we used to call embedded SQL, and when I did do a
join, it was *not* an explicit join. I've also used right or left once?
twice? ever? But then, I carefully design and code my queries. One place I
worked, someone else would run a query, and it would bring a server to its
knees: I and a co-worker looked at it at one point, and it was a nightmare
of joins, multiple references, etc, etc.

But then, third normal form is, in general, idiotic except in the design
phase. After you've decided on individual data, then collect them into
records (oh, sorry, I'll have to do penance for not using the correct
theological term, tubles). One table for one major set of info, and a key
or two across several. Classic is an entire year's monthly payments for
one customer on *one* record, not 12 records, as it would be in third
normal.

 mark

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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Always Learning]

On Fri, 2011-09-16 at 00:56 +0800, Emmanuel Noobadmin wrote:

> So how do you retrieve data that are kept in different tables? Or do
> you simply replicate the same data in every single table that needs
> it?

No unnecessary replication because it wastes space and needs multiple
updates.  A customer number would be stored in an invoice header record
and in a customer name and address record. 

Data is generally stored once. However because of legal requirements a
customer's invoicing name and address and delivery address will be
copied from the customer file and permanently stored in an invoice's
header record. This means when the customer's record details are
changed, the invoice continues to show the original name and address
data valid at the time of creating that invoice.

Each table as a unique reference number.

A simple retrieval illustration ...

select * from p2 where p2ref = '$p1ref' 

select p3surname, p3forename, p3add1, p3add2, p3add3, p3add4 (etc) from
p3 where p3customer = '$e7customer' 

select w1note from w1 where w1date = '$s5date' 



Paul.


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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[m . roth]

Emmanuel Noobadmin wrote:
> On 9/15/11, Always Learning  wrote:

>> Simplicity and good design makes applications fast.
>
> For some apps, fast is king. For some, data security and integrity is
> ultimate. Would you want your banking transactions to run faster by
> stripping out security and validation checks, at the risk that some
> dude can transfer all your money into somebody else account? If so,
> please let me know your bank account details and access credentials, I
> have a program to speed up your banking transactions... ;)

You *need* both. Take too long, and the user will go somewhere else.

I remember hearing about another division, a bunch of years ago, when I
worked at the Scummy Mortgage Co. (name available upon request, offline),
where the manager had designed the interface... and all the clerks *hated*
it, and did everything they could to *not* use it.

In other words, it was a failure. But then, that's another reason I have
always wanted, during the design phase, to talk to the actual end users,
*not* to the Manager Who Knew, I Mean, Everything.

   mark

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[CentOS] distro pkg update messages only email lists or website too?

[R - elists]

greetings

are distro pkg update messages only email lists or website too?

i see that CentOS 5 kernel stuff is pushed 2x in past coupla days and just
wanna make sure what differences are...

or was it just a move from CR to mainline difference and upgrading same
things again?

 - rh

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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Emmanuel Noobadmin]

On 9/16/11, m.r...@5-cent.us  wrote:
> I've done a lot of what we used to call embedded SQL, and when I did do a
> join, it was *not* an explicit join. I've also used right or left once?
> twice? ever? But then, I carefully design and code my queries.

So it's more like a series of "select a,b,c from x where d=y", then
"select a2,b2,c2 from x2 where z=a"? I'm just curious, not that I
think it's wrong because I'm actually leaning towards this. There were
many occasions where I find that breaking up complex queries and doing
filtering within my code was faster than trusting the dbms to optimize
the query.

>One place I
> worked, someone else would run a query, and it would bring a server to its
> knees: I and a co-worker looked at it at one point, and it was a nightmare
> of joins, multiple references, etc, etc.

I had that kind of experience before, nightmare to figure out exactly
what the original coder was trying to do and a performance hell.

> But then, third normal form is, in general, idiotic except in the design
> phase. After you've decided on individual data, then collect them into
> records (oh, sorry, I'll have to do penance for not using the correct
> theological term, tubles).

lol, despite my "formal" education, I never got used to calling them
"tuples". It just sounds too much like a nonsense word to me, and it
confuses the hell out of most people compared to "records" and "rows".

>One table for one major set of info, and a key
> or two across several. Classic is an entire year's monthly payments for
> one customer on *one* record, not 12 records, as it would be in third
> normal.

I'm actually leaning towards highly normalized schema but instead of
doing joins in queries, I'd do it in my application code. I haven't
formally tested and benchmarked things but it would seem that getting
the dbms to return 10 matching rows from a 1 million row table of say
100 bytes rows, then calling for 10 records matching those rows out of
another 1 million 1KB rows, is going to be a lot faster than letting
the dbms attempt to create a 1 million 100bytes x 1 million KB product
just to pull those same 10 rows. Unless the dbms' internal
optimization logic works every time. Maybe somebody with better
understanding of mysql/postgresql innards can shed some light on this.
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Re: [CentOS] [CentOS-announce] Release for CentOS-5.7 i386 and x86_64

[WBEL-User03]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 00:41:22 +0100, Always Learning wrote:
===
> Thank you for all the hard dedicated work.
===
 I am echoing Always Learning's appreciation.  Thank you, Karanbir,
and all the other developers, QA personnel & repository/infrastructure
maintainers for getting 5.7 released.
 I'd like to contribute financially, to assist CentOS in this work.
But it appears your cash donation policy is still under review[1].  Any
idea when that will be complete?

[1]


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Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Emmanuel Noobadmin]

On 9/16/11, m.r...@5-cent.us  wrote:
> You *need* both. Take too long, and the user will go somewhere else.

Of course :D

> I remember hearing about another division, a bunch of years ago, when I
> worked at the Scummy Mortgage Co. (name available upon request, offline),
> where the manager had designed the interface... and all the clerks *hated*
> it, and did everything they could to *not* use it.
>
> In other words, it was a failure. But then, that's another reason I have
> always wanted, during the design phase, to talk to the actual end users,
> *not* to the Manager Who Knew, I Mean, Everything.

Similar experiences, but some bosses/managers just don't accept that
we have to talk to the people who will actually be using the interface
most of the time. I had customers who told me it's a waste of time
talking to the workers because they don't understand the whole
operational process and insist we build it the upper management way.
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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Emmanuel Noobadmin]

On 9/16/11, Always Learning  wrote:
> Data is generally stored once. However because of legal requirements a
> customer's invoicing name and address and delivery address will be
> copied from the customer file and permanently stored in an invoice's
> header record. This means when the customer's record details are
> changed, the invoice continues to show the original name and address
> data valid at the time of creating that invoice.
>
> Each table as a unique reference number.
>
> A simple retrieval illustration ...
>
> select * from p2 where p2ref = '$p1ref' 
>
> select p3surname, p3forename, p3add1, p3add2, p3add3, p3add4 (etc) from
> p3 where p3customer = '$e7customer' 
>
> select w1note from w1 where w1date = '$s5date' 

This looks rather similar to what I am doing nowadays instead of
massive queries with sub-selects. Glad to see I'm not alone in this
direction. Hopefully this is a case of great minds think alike than
fools seldom differs! :D
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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[John R Pierce]

On 09/14/11 8:36 PM, Always Learning wrote:
>> >  And, if you've never used a SQL join, you don't know the first thing
>> >  about*relational*  databases, you've been using SQL as though it was a
>> >  simple flat table ISAM, DBase-style circa 1983.  Might as well use
>> >  BerkeleyDB for that, its even faster and lighter weight.
> Golly. I grew-up in real computers. Relational databases are simply
> database structures, linking records. There is no reason to use joins
> and views IF the database is carefully planned. Joins and views are
> another overhead. Rule Number 01 in programming is Keep It Simple.

lets come up with a really simplistic example here.

table: customers{id, name, address}
table: catalogitem(id,description,price}
table: customerorder{id,customer references customers(id),date}
table: orderlineitem{orderid references customerorder(id),catalogid 
references catalogitem(id), qty}

that data is normalized, there is no redundant data in any of those 
tables, they are connected by the relations defined via the references 
('foreign keys').

now, if we want to pull up a summary of how much customer named 'joe' 
has ordered in 2010, we'd do something like...

select sum(ci.price*oi.qty) from customers c
 join customerorders co on (co.customer=c.id)
 join orderlineitem oi on (co.id=oi.catalogid)
 join catalogitem cati on (cati.id=oi.catalogid)
 where c.name = 'joe' and extract (year from co.date) = 2010;

boom. one query.  concise.  one round trip to the database engine, the 
database engine does all the heavy lifting, for which its designed, and 
it returns just the data you need to answer this query.


-- 
john r pierceN 37, W 122
santa cruz ca mid-left coast

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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Always Learning]

On Fri, 2011-09-16 at 01:10 +0800, Emmanuel Noobadmin wrote:

> On 9/15/11, Always Learning  wrote:
> 
> >> Next you'll be saying you don't use triggers and constraints either.
> >
> > Not consciously. Never heard of them.

> You should take a look at constraints, they are good for ensuring
> certain types of data integrity. For example, it would make the
> database to stop situations like somebody trying to insert a record
> referring customer #9865 but in fact #9865 doesn't exist, whether it
> was an unintentional user error or a bug in the application.

Before anyone can add data for customer 9865, the existing customer
record is displayed on the screen. This helps the user to be sure he/she
has got the correct customer. A customer not found message means the
record does not exist. Consequently it is impossible to add data to a
non-existent customer record.

In most circumstances, instead of entering anonymous un-meaningful
digits to identify customers, look-ups are done with postal code or
partial address match or partial organisation name match or partial
telephone number match etc. I love easy-to-use user-friendly systems.

> No, in many situation, it's a more secure method. Databases can have
> privileges set.

I use the SQL privileges for tables and enable only the SQL verbs
required by a user. I certainly do not want a user being able to 'drop'
a table. Only I can do that.

>  You could have triggers and stored procedures that
> update certain records that cannot otherwise be altered by the
> application which can be written by a third party.

I do have some fields as zero-filled, auto increment.

>  For example, a stored procedure would require both a debit and credit
>  account for transferring funds and/or checks that the actual amount is
>  present before doing it. Without this, a bugged application or rogue
>  user/dev who run the app with privleged access would be able to
>  transfer funds that don't exist.

In my systems such actions could not happen. No user gets permissions
they do not genuinely require. If the programme specification says no
'overdraft' then funds can not be transferred out of an account if that
account balance would go negative.


> > Simplicity and good design makes applications fast.
> 
> For some apps, fast is king. For some, data security and integrity is
> ultimate. Would you want your banking transactions to run faster by
> stripping out security and validation checks, at the risk that some
> dude can transfer all your money into somebody else account? If so,
> please let me know your bank account details and access credentials, I
> have a program to speed up your banking transactions... ;)

Let us be serious. Fast, efficient applications are no good if they
malfunction. Proper functioning is the first requirement and if the
systems, the database and the programmes, are designed and coded
efficiently, the applications will run fast and be secured.

The banks in Holland used to meet monthly to divide-up all the money
that got lost in the system. Obviously they were using 'experts' to
design and code their systems :-)

> > The integrity of the data can be divided into two aspects: ensuring the
> > data remains constant (unaltered) while stored, which is the
> > responsibility of the operation system and the database software, and
> > the data's integrity from an application perspective. Junk-in always
> > causes Junk-out even when using 'non-dumb' databases :-)
> 
> And if the database can further ensure that the application cannot put
> junk in, whether due to a bug, user error or deliberate fraud, why
> not? Especially when it's likely to be faster because it's native
> code.

Database intervention to validate data is too late, in my opinion. You
do not want junk getting pass the application's data input stage. If you
want an amount of money and someone specifies the currency as GBQ
instead of GBP, then that input error should be identified and rejected
at the data input stage not actually sent to the database to be stored.

That is why I always try to wreck my programmes by entering invalid
data.  If I fail to wreck my programmes there is a reasonable certainty
others will fail too.


Paul.

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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Always Learning]

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 13:17 -0400, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:

> In other words, it was a failure. But then, that's another reason I
> have always wanted, during the design phase, to talk to the actual end
> users, *not* to the Manager Who Knew, I Mean, Everything.

The end-users definitely know what they want.



-- 
With best regards,

Paul.
England,
EU.


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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Emmanuel Noobadmin]

On 9/16/11, Always Learning  wrote:
> Before anyone can add data for customer 9865, the existing customer
> record is displayed on the screen. This helps the user to be sure he/she
> has got the correct customer. A customer not found message means the
> record does not exist. Consequently it is impossible to add data to a
> non-existent customer record.

Assuming the system works as expected. Certainly I would expect the
application to be at least doing such basic validation and
verification. But wouldn't an added layer of safety be better? After
all, there could be race conditions where two or more users could
cause the application to pass the transaction to the database, which
results in more than the allowed amount being transacted because the
individual values were valid when the application checked.


> In most circumstances, instead of entering anonymous un-meaningful
> digits to identify customers, look-ups are done with postal code or
> partial address match or partial organisation name match or partial
> telephone number match etc. I love easy-to-use user-friendly systems.

Which is where AJAX comes in. Typing in a partial address or postal
code brings up, almost instantly on LAN environment, matches without
having to go to a search page or equivalent.

> I use the SQL privileges for tables and enable only the SQL verbs
> required by a user. I certainly do not want a user being able to 'drop'
> a table. Only I can do that.

I wasn't referring to that kind of problems but normal INSERT/UPDATE.

> In my systems such actions could not happen. No user gets permissions
> they do not genuinely require. If the programme specification says no
> 'overdraft' then funds can not be transferred out of an account if that
> account balance would go negative.

Assuming everything works as expected, no bugs, no intentional hacks
and nobody edited the application source without your knowledge ;)

I think part of the difference in mentality is the environment our
applications run in. I always have to worry about some "admin" in the
client's office who thinks they know how to program, and clients
wanting to save money, asking them to do some modifications which may
lead to problems that I might get blamed for.

So having that added layer of checks at the DB level should help... at
least hopefully when the other guy gets an sql error, he might look
more carefully at what's wrong with his code instead of trying to
delete my trigger/constraints :D

> Database intervention to validate data is too late, in my opinion. You
> do not want junk getting pass the application's data input stage. If you
> want an amount of money and someone specifies the currency as GBQ
> instead of GBP, then that input error should be identified and rejected
> at the data input stage not actually sent to the database to be stored.

It's never too late to stop junk from getting stored. Early prevention
might be better than late prevention, but any prevention is definitely
better than none! :D

> That is why I always try to wreck my programmes by entering invalid
> data.  If I fail to wreck my programmes there is a reasonable certainty
> others will fail too.

But it doesn't guarantee that somebody/something else can't. After
all, we're only humans and I believe all of us have blind spots which
can allow edge cases to escape testing.
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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Always Learning]

On Fri, 2011-09-16 at 01:41 +0800, Emmanuel Noobadmin wrote:

> On 9/16/11, Always Learning  wrote:
> >
> > select w1note from w1 where w1date = '$s5date' 


> This looks rather similar to what I am doing nowadays instead of
> massive queries with sub-selects. Glad to see I'm not alone in this
> direction. Hopefully this is a case of great minds think alike than
> fools seldom differs! :D

It is surprising that some 'computer people' lack a logical insight into
their own work. One 'expert' wrote a single Cobol IF statement spanning
10 and a bit pages. 60 printed coding lines per page. He thought that
was 'great'. I shuddered and thought it was stupid.

At the same place, Schiphol Airport (Amsterdam), I was asked NOT to make
my programmes user-friendly and to remove user-friendly features from my
programmes because "If the users see them, they will ask us to put your
user-friendly improvements in our programmes".

The applications I wrote carried data from one screen to the next screen
and saved the worker having to re-enter the data. NVLS (the airport
authority) staff wanted their old system retained - the user having to
copy onto a piece of paper the essential data and type it in on the next
screen.  There was I thinking I had done a good job and the next minute
I was told to programme like a moron.

Sometimes well-paid contract work can make the contractor feel like a
prostitute.  Does one object to utter stupidity and walk-out or abandon
one's principals and stay ?


Paul.


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[CentOS] Was: Re: Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7, is, programming with style

[m . roth]

Always Learning wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-09-16 at 01:41 +0800, Emmanuel Noobadmin wrote:
>> On 9/16/11, Always Learning  wrote:

> It is surprising that some 'computer people' lack a logical insight into
> their own work. One 'expert' wrote a single Cobol IF statement spanning
> 10 and a bit pages. 60 printed coding lines per page. He thought that
> was 'great'. I shuddered and thought it was stupid.

Oh, *Ghu*.  I left behind at several jobs CICS code that had
in it PERFORM 1000-DUMMY-PARAGRAPH THROUGH 1000-DUMMY-PARAGRAPH EXIT WHILE
,
just to make up for COBOL's shortage of control structures (for/next,
while). PL/1 was nicer, and when I got to C, I thought I'd gone to
heaven

I've seen code like you mention. A number of years ago, I was brought in
to program. The place's code was all in perl, which my manager had
written. He had most of his EE, and hadn't studied programming... and it
showed. I rewrote 600 or 1000 lines of code that were straight line
spaghetti into clean, modular stuff, and as I did it, he was clearly
studying what I did (I know, because I saw he'd copied one brief date
routine into a program he was working on).

Remember, even among those who studied, a) half of them were in the bottom
of their class, and b) too many are True Believers in the latest
programming (not the P word!) paradigm; y'know, recursion is the answer to
*everything*, or OO, or
>
> At the same place, Schiphol Airport (Amsterdam), I was asked NOT to make
> my programmes user-friendly and to remove user-friendly features from my
> programmes because "If the users see them, they will ask us to put your
> user-friendly improvements in our programmes".
>
> The applications I wrote carried data from one screen to the next screen
> and saved the worker having to re-enter the data. NVLS (the airport
> authority) staff wanted their old system retained - the user having to
> copy onto a piece of paper the essential data and type it in on the next
> screen.  There was I thinking I had done a good job and the next minute
> I was told to programme like a moron.

And they want to *guarantee* that more errors will come in.
>
> Sometimes well-paid contract work can make the contractor feel like a
> prostitute.  Does one object to utter stupidity and walk-out or abandon
> one's principals and stay ?

I think I'd work my way up management... and/or look for another job.

   mark "actually, did that"

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Re: [CentOS] 6.1 Update request

[Johnny Hughes]

On 09/15/2011 04:46 AM, David Hrbáč wrote:
> Dne 15.9.2011 10:36, John Hodrien napsal(a):
>> Breaks it how?
>>
>> jh
> 
> So, cr should be used only during shift phase.

CR is a totally optional repo ... it is something we can do for people
who want to use it.

For people who do not want it ... that is fine too, they can wait for
the main line release.



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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Keith Roberts]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011, Always Learning wrote:

*snip*

> Sometimes well-paid contract work can make the contractor feel like a
> prostitute.  Does one object to utter stupidity and walk-out or abandon
> one's principals and stay ?

I gues it depends on how much the hourly rate is ;)

Kind Regards,

Keith

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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Always Learning]

On Fri, 2011-09-16 at 01:58 +0800, Emmanuel Noobadmin wrote:

> On 9/16/11, Always Learning  wrote:

> But wouldn't an added layer of safety be better?

Yes of course.

> After all, there could be race conditions where two or more users could
> cause the application to pass the transaction to the database, which
>  results in more than the allowed amount being transacted because the
>  individual values were valid when the application checked.

Record locking should prevent that.

> > In most circumstances, instead of entering anonymous un-meaningful
> > digits to identify customers, look-ups are done with postal code or
> > partial address match or partial organisation name match or partial
> > telephone number match etc. I love easy-to-use user-friendly systems.
> 
> Which is where AJAX comes in. Typing in a partial address or postal
> code brings up, almost instantly on LAN environment, matches without
> having to go to a search page or equivalent.

No real different between an Ajax screen and a normal HTML screen (with
CSS) showing the matches.

> > I use the SQL privileges for tables and enable only the SQL verbs
> > required by a user. I certainly do not want a user being able to 'drop'
> > a table. Only I can do that.
> 
> I wasn't referring to that kind of problems but normal INSERT/UPDATE.

That too. If a user does not need to perform a SQL function then that
user has no authorisation to use the SQL verb.

> > In my systems such actions could not happen. No user gets permissions
> > they do not genuinely require. If the programme specification says no
> > 'overdraft' then funds can not be transferred out of an account if that
> > account balance would go negative.
> 
> Assuming everything works as expected, no bugs, no intentional hacks
> and nobody edited the application source without your knowledge ;)

User can not change READ ONLY programme files.

> It's never too late to stop junk from getting stored. Early prevention
> might be better than late prevention, but any prevention is definitely
> better than none! :D

Robust data validation is always an essential requirement for any data
input procedure. There is no point in running a super-doper system if it
can be contaminated with bad data. Acceptance of bad data makes a
mockery of the entire system.

> > That is why I always try to wreck my programmes by entering invalid
> > data.  If I fail to wreck my programmes there is a reasonable certainty
> > others will fail too.
> 
> But it doesn't guarantee that somebody/something else can't.

I think it means no one else can :-)  What I never tell users is every
programme routinely logs every user's details and activities. So if
things go wrong, I read the application's log file.

>  After all, we're only humans and I believe all of us have blind spots
>  which can allow edge cases to escape testing.

No point in me 'escaping testing' of my programmes. I prefer them going
wrong in front of me and not in front of the users. Hence my vigorous
testing policy when I become the user. 

-- 
With best regards,

Paul.
England,
EU.


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[CentOS] Was, Re: Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7, is, programming with style and elegance

[m . roth]

Keith Roberts wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Sep 2011, Always Learning wrote:
>
> *snip*
>
>> Sometimes well-paid contract work can make the contractor feel like a
>> prostitute.  Does one object to utter stupidity and walk-out or abandon
>> one's principals and stay ?
>
> I gues it depends on how much the hourly rate is ;)

It depends on your ethics.

I've had to relocate 5 times in my life, halfway across the US each time,
leaving folks behind. The last time, in '09, with the depression in full
swing, I had a choice of staying in Chicago, and taking a third shift job
for six months or a year (before they'd let me shift to day), supporting
trading firms (that is, rich or wannabe rich assholes do their best to get
richer by screwing everyone else), that might eventually have been a lot
more money, or taking a good salary working for a federal contractor, and
having to relocate *again*, this time to DC.

I'm in DC. I'm doing something useful to society, and not prostituting
myself.

mark

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Re: [CentOS] Cons of disabling *.i386 and *.i686 in a 64bit Distribution

[James Nguyen]

I haven't seen this option before.  Let me do some googling and see if it
fits into the solution I'm looking for.

Thanks =)

On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 2:02 AM, John Doe  wrote:

> From: James Nguyen 
>
> > So the premise for this question is that I setup an exclude=*.i368,*.i686
> in my yum.conf.
> > While doing a yum update I come across missing package dependencies for
> instance mkinitrd for the i386 package.
>
> What about using multilib_policy=best instead?
>
> JD
>
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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Always Learning]

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 10:42 -0700, John R Pierce wrote:

> lets come up with a really simplistic example here.
> 
> table: customers{id, name, address}
> table: catalogitem(id,description,price}
> table: customerorder{id,customer references customers(id),date}
> table: orderlineitem{orderid references customerorder(id),catalogid 
> references catalogitem(id), qty}
> 
> that data is normalized, there is no redundant data in any of those 
> tables, they are connected by the relations defined via the references 
> ('foreign keys').

I would not design my orders database exactly like you have.

If I knew the system user wanted to know "how much customer named 'joe'
has ordered in 2010," then I would first ask

? by value

? by quantity of different items

? by gross quantity of all items

I might even make a table like this:-

C1

c1ref
c1customer  (code)
c1quantity  (integers only)
c1price (in cents)
c1discount  (2 decimal places held as integers)
c1catalogue (code)
c1date  (yymmdd)
c1order (number)
c1comments  (text)

then do a query:

select c1quantity, c1price, c1discount from c1 where c1customer =
'joebloggs' and c1date like '10%'

while ...

$value.= ($c1price*$c1quantity*((100-$c1discount)/100));

> now, if we want to pull up a summary of how much customer named 'joe' 
> has ordered in 2010, we'd do something like...
> 
> select sum(ci.price*oi.qty) from customers c
>  join customerorders co on (co.customer=c.id)
>  join orderlineitem oi on (co.id=oi.catalogid)
>  join catalogitem cati on (cati.id=oi.catalogid)
>  where c.name = 'joe' and extract (year from co.date) = 2010;

Never used SQL sum, so I would try

select sum($c1price*$c1quantity*((100-$c1discount)/100)) from c1 where
c1customer = 'joebloggs' and c1date like '10%'

Not a 'join' insight :-)


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Re: [CentOS] Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7

[Ray Van Dolson]

On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 08:51:23PM +0100, Always Learning wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 10:42 -0700, John R Pierce wrote:
> 
> > lets come up with a really simplistic example here.
> > 
> > table: customers{id, name, address}
> > table: catalogitem(id,description,price}
> > table: customerorder{id,customer references customers(id),date}
> > table: orderlineitem{orderid references customerorder(id),catalogid 
> > references catalogitem(id), qty}
> > 
> > that data is normalized, there is no redundant data in any of those 
> > tables, they are connected by the relations defined via the references 
> > ('foreign keys').
> 
> I would not design my orders database exactly like you have.
> 
> If I knew the system user wanted to know "how much customer named 'joe'
> has ordered in 2010," then I would first ask
> 
> ? by value
> 
> ? by quantity of different items
> 
> ? by gross quantity of all items
> 
> I might even make a table like this:-
> 
>   C1
> 
>   c1ref
>   c1customer  (code)
>   c1quantity  (integers only)
>   c1price (in cents)
>   c1discount  (2 decimal places held as integers)
>   c1catalogue (code)
>   c1date  (yymmdd)
>   c1order (number)
>   c1comments  (text)
> 
> then do a query:
> 
> select c1quantity, c1price, c1discount from c1 where c1customer =
> 'joebloggs' and c1date like '10%'
> 
> while ...
> 
>   $value.= ($c1price*$c1quantity*((100-$c1discount)/100));
> 
> > now, if we want to pull up a summary of how much customer named 'joe' 
> > has ordered in 2010, we'd do something like...
> > 
> > select sum(ci.price*oi.qty) from customers c
> >  join customerorders co on (co.customer=c.id)
> >  join orderlineitem oi on (co.id=oi.catalogid)
> >  join catalogitem cati on (cati.id=oi.catalogid)
> >  where c.name = 'joe' and extract (year from co.date) = 2010;
> 
> Never used SQL sum, so I would try
> 
> select sum($c1price*$c1quantity*((100-$c1discount)/100)) from c1 where
> c1customer = 'joebloggs' and c1date like '10%'
> 
> Not a 'join' insight :-)

I think this is how we all started learning SQL and writing web
applications... without normalization.  And it won't cause you much
grief in simpler use case scenarios with smaller data sizes.

You might take a stab at learning normalization though.  It's really
quite intuitive, helps keep your tables from "column bloat" and you can
offload a lot of the processing to the SQL engine instead of passing
unnecessary information from the DB to your app layer and doing
processing there.  It also forces you to put a little more thought into
design and you'll end up with a schema another DBA could look at and
not run away scared. :)

My $0.02 anyways!

Ray

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[CentOS] fdisk on centos 6

[Jerry Geis]

  I am getting the WRONG values reported from fdisk on centos 6.
This is listing an 8G CF card on /dev/sde

Disk /dev/sde: 8019 MB, 8019099648 bytes
247 heads, 62 sectors/track, 1022 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 15314 * 512 = 7840768 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0xd1b46611


It should be 255 heads, 63 sectors/track.

Under centos 5 this is reported correctly.

I even tried specifying the -S 63 -H 255 on the fdisk command line - 
that did not help.

my symptom is when I setup my CF card to run linux - I get a grub error 2.

What kind of madness is happening?

Jerry
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[CentOS] Was, Re: Upgrade from 5.6 => 5.7, is, programming with style and elegance

[m . roth]

Ray Van Dolson wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 08:51:23PM +0100, Always Learning wrote:
>> On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 10:42 -0700, John R Pierce wrote:

>> Not a 'join' insight :-)
>
> I think this is how we all started learning SQL and writing web
> applications... without normalization.  And it won't cause you much
> grief in simpler use case scenarios with smaller data sizes.
>
> You might take a stab at learning normalization though.  It's really
> quite intuitive, helps keep your tables from "column bloat" and you can
> offload a lot of the processing to the SQL engine instead of passing

First time I was working with SQL, in '91, my manager tried normalizing
the tables... with the result that one data file had more key than data in
each record, sorry, "row", oops, that's tuple, and it was a HUGE number of
rows.

I offered a redesign that had a fixed number of datum, and he took that.
Took the number of records vastly down.

Normalization is a torx screwdriver; it doesn't fit all uses.

mark

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Re: [CentOS] fdisk on centos 6

[Scott Silva]

on 9/15/2011 1:57 PM Jerry Geis spake the following:
>I am getting the WRONG values reported from fdisk on centos 6.
> This is listing an 8G CF card on /dev/sde
>
> Disk /dev/sde: 8019 MB, 8019099648 bytes
> 247 heads, 62 sectors/track, 1022 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 15314 * 512 = 7840768 bytes
> Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
> I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
> Disk identifier: 0xd1b46611
>
>
> It should be 255 heads, 63 sectors/track.
>
> Under centos 5 this is reported correctly.
>
> I even tried specifying the -S 63 -H 255 on the fdisk command line -
> that did not help.
>
> my symptom is when I setup my CF card to run linux - I get a grub error 2.
>
> What kind of madness is happening?
>
> Jerry
I think the fdisk in 6 tries to align on 4k boundaries. Does fdisk -c do the 
same thing?


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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Sebastiano Pilla]

Alain Péan wrote:
> What if you delete (or save elsewhere) the primary.xml.gz.sqlite file ?
> If it is corrupted, it would do no arm, and perhaps it is no more used
> or regenerated if it missing ?

This doesn't work unfortunately, yum always creates the same corrupted file:

- here I use yum to delete the yum cache, then I confirm that the file 
does not exist anymore, but the subsequent update fails and the 
corrupted file is there again

[root@picard ~]# yum clean all
Loaded plugins: downloadonly, fastestmirror, priorities
Cleaning up Everything
[root@picard ~]# ll /var/cache/yum/base 

total 4.0K
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Sep 14 21:56 packages/
[root@picard ~]# yum update
Loaded plugins: downloadonly, fastestmirror, priorities
Determining fastest mirrors
  * base: mirrors.ircam.fr
  * updates: mirrors.ircam.fr
base | 1.1 kB 00:00
base/primary | 961 kB 00:02
Segmentation fault
[root@picard ~]# ll /var/cache/yum/base
total 1000K
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root0 Sep 15 23:43 cachecookie
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  985 Sep 15 23:43 mirrorlist.txt
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Sep 14 21:56 packages/
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 961K Sep  5 13:52 primary.xml.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  20K Sep 15 23:43 primary.xml.gz.sqlite
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1.2K Sep  5 13:52 repomd.xml

- here I delete just the corrupted file, I confirm that it doesn't exist 
anymore, but the subsequent update fails and the file is there again

[root@picard ~]# rm -f /var/cache/yum/base/primary.xml.gz.sqlite
[root@picard ~]# ll /var/cache/yum/base
total 980K
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root0 Sep 15 23:43 cachecookie
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  985 Sep 15 23:43 mirrorlist.txt
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Sep 14 21:56 packages/
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 961K Sep  5 13:52 primary.xml.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1.2K Sep  5 13:52 repomd.xml
[root@picard ~]# yum update
Loaded plugins: downloadonly, fastestmirror, priorities
Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile
  * base: mirrors.ircam.fr
  * updates: mirrors.ircam.fr
Segmentation fault
[root@picard ~]# ll /var/cache/yum/base
total 1000K
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root0 Sep 15 23:43 cachecookie
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  985 Sep 15 23:43 mirrorlist.txt
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Sep 14 21:56 packages/
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 961K Sep  5 13:52 primary.xml.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  20K Sep 15 23:43 primary.xml.gz.sqlite
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1.2K Sep  5 13:52 repomd.xml

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Re: [CentOS] trouble booting install CD on old machine

[Keith Keller]

On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 09:46:44AM -0400, fred smith wrote:
> 
> or a bad image burn, too, since you say you haven't yet tested it.

This was indeed the issue.  Sorry to bother everyone, and thanks for all
the responses!  (I didn't suspect a bad burn initially, as it was able
to get to the ISOLINUX splash text.  But the CD had practically the same
symptoms on the machine where I did the burn.)

--keith

-- 
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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Brian Miller]

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 18:37 +0200, sebasti...@datafaber.net wrote:

> And there's also plenty of available space on the other 5 boxes which 
> exhibit the same issue.

Sorry if this has been suggested already - have you tried running with
all plugins disabled?

'yum --noplugins check-update'

I have a very vague memory of encountering a problem similar to this
years ago when my mirrors file was corrupted.


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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Sebastiano Pilla]

Craig White wrote:
> mv /var/cache/yum/base/primary.xml.gz/sqlite /tmp
>
> and try again I suppose - yes, that file is supposed to be much larger - I 
> suspect that it will create a new 'copy' of that file if it fails to find it.

Unfortunately yum recreates the same corrupted file, even if I move it 
out or delete it:

[root@picard ~]# yum clean all 

Loaded plugins: downloadonly, fastestmirror, priorities
Cleaning up Everything
[root@picard ~]# ll /var/cache/yum/base 

total 4.0K
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Sep 14 21:56 packages/
[root@picard ~]# yum update 

Loaded plugins: downloadonly, fastestmirror, priorities
Determining fastest mirrors
  * base: mirrors.ircam.fr
  * updates: mirrors.ircam.fr
base 
   | 1.1 kB 00:00
base/primary 
   | 961 kB 00:02
Segmentation fault
[root@picard ~]# ll /var/cache/yum/base
total 1000K
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root0 Sep 15 23:43 cachecookie
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  985 Sep 15 23:43 mirrorlist.txt
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Sep 14 21:56 packages/
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 961K Sep  5 13:52 primary.xml.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  20K Sep 15 23:43 primary.xml.gz.sqlite
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1.2K Sep  5 13:52 repomd.xml
[root@picard ~]# rm -f /var/cache/yum/base/primary.xml.gz.sqlite
[root@picard ~]# ll /var/cache/yum/base
total 980K
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root0 Sep 15 23:43 cachecookie
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  985 Sep 15 23:43 mirrorlist.txt
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Sep 14 21:56 packages/
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 961K Sep  5 13:52 primary.xml.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1.2K Sep  5 13:52 repomd.xml
[root@picard ~]# yum update
Loaded plugins: downloadonly, fastestmirror, priorities
Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile
  * base: mirrors.ircam.fr
  * updates: mirrors.ircam.fr
Segmentation fault
[root@picard ~]# ll /var/cache/yum/base
total 1000K
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root0 Sep 15 23:43 cachecookie
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  985 Sep 15 23:43 mirrorlist.txt
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K Sep 14 21:56 packages/
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 961K Sep  5 13:52 primary.xml.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  20K Sep 15 23:43 primary.xml.gz.sqlite
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1.2K Sep  5 13:52 repomd.xml

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Re: [CentOS] fdisk on centos 6

[Jerry Geis]

> I think the fdisk in 6 tries to align on 4k boundaries. Does fdisk -c do the
> same thing?
>

Scott - thanks I just tried -cu and same result.

jerry

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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Craig White]

On Sep 15, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Sebastiano Pilla wrote:

> Craig White wrote:
>> mv /var/cache/yum/base/primary.xml.gz/sqlite /tmp
>> 
>> and try again I suppose - yes, that file is supposed to be much larger - I 
>> suspect that it will create a new 'copy' of that file if it fails to find it.
> 
> Unfortunately yum recreates the same corrupted file, even if I move it 
> out or delete it:

post the output of...

cat /etc/yum.repos.d/CentOS-Base.repo

Craig
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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Always Learning]

On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 15:06 -0700, Craig White wrote:


> post the output of...

It was the same as mine in Centos 5.6, now 5.7

Paul.


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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Sebastiano Pilla]

Craig White wrote:
> On Sep 15, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Sebastiano Pilla wrote:
>
>> Craig White wrote:
>>> mv /var/cache/yum/base/primary.xml.gz/sqlite /tmp
>>>
>>> and try again I suppose - yes, that file is supposed to be much larger - I 
>>> suspect that it will create a new 'copy' of that file if it fails to find 
>>> it.
>> Unfortunately yum recreates the same corrupted file, even if I move it
>> out or delete it:
> 
> post the output of...
>
> cat /etc/yum.repos.d/CentOS-Base.repo

[root@picard ~]# cat /etc/yum.repos.d/CentOS-Base.repo
# CentOS-Base.repo
#
# The mirror system uses the connecting IP address of the client and the
# update status of each mirror to pick mirrors that are updated to and
# geographically close to the client.  You should use this for CentOS
# updates unless you are manually picking other mirrors.
#
# If the mirrorlist= does not work for you, as a fall back you can try
# the remarked out baseurl= line instead.
#
#

[base]
name=CentOS-$releasever - Base
mirrorlist=http://mirrorlist.centos.org/?release=$releasever&arch=$basearch&repo=os
#baseurl=http://mirror.centos.org/centos/$releasever/os/$basearch/
gpgcheck=1
enabled=1
gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-CentOS-5

#released updates
[updates]
name=CentOS-$releasever - Updates
mirrorlist=http://mirrorlist.centos.org/?release=$releasever&arch=$basearch&repo=updates
#baseurl=http://mirror.centos.org/centos/$releasever/updates/$basearch/
gpgcheck=1
enabled=1
gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-CentOS-5

#additional packages that may be useful
[extras]
name=CentOS-$releasever - Extras
mirrorlist=http://mirrorlist.centos.org/?release=$releasever&arch=$basearch&repo=extras
#baseurl=http://mirror.centos.org/centos/$releasever/extras/$basearch/
gpgcheck=1
enabled=0
gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-CentOS-5

#additional packages that extend functionality of existing packages
[centosplus]
name=CentOS-$releasever - Plus
mirrorlist=http://mirrorlist.centos.org/?release=$releasever&arch=$basearch&repo=centosplus
#baseurl=http://mirror.centos.org/centos/$releasever/centosplus/$basearch/
gpgcheck=1
enabled=0
gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-CentOS-5

#contrib - packages by Centos Users
[contrib]
name=CentOS-$releasever - Contrib
mirrorlist=http://mirrorlist.centos.org/?release=$releasever&arch=$basearch&repo=contrib
#baseurl=http://mirror.centos.org/centos/$releasever/contrib/$basearch/
gpgcheck=1
enabled=0
gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-CentOS-5
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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Josh Miller]

On 09/15/2011 02:45 PM, Sebastiano Pilla wrote:
> Craig White wrote:
>> mv /var/cache/yum/base/primary.xml.gz/sqlite /tmp
>>
>> and try again I suppose - yes, that file is supposed to be much larger - I 
>> suspect that it will create a new 'copy' of that file if it fails to find it.
>
> Unfortunately yum recreates the same corrupted file, even if I move it
> out or delete it:

Are you behind a proxy?

I've had issues where a proxy was caching the file and after the repo 
had updated it's version, the cached version was out of date and 
resulted in errors.

The fix was typically to issue a wget with the --no-cache directive to 
request an updated copy or restart the proxy.

   wget --no-cache http://...


-- 
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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Sebastiano Pilla]

Brian Miller wrote:
> Sorry if this has been suggested already - have you tried running with
> all plugins disabled?
>
> 'yum --noplugins check-update'

This wasn't suggested yet, but I did try it at some point. I've just 
tried again and the result is the same:

[root@picard ~]# yum clean all
Loaded plugins: downloadonly, fastestmirror, priorities
Cleaning up Everything
[root@picard ~]# yum --noplugins check-update
base | 1.1 kB 00:00
base/primary | 961 kB 00:00
Segmentation fault
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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Sebastiano Pilla]

Josh Miller wrote:
> On 09/15/2011 02:45 PM, Sebastiano Pilla wrote:
>> Craig White wrote:
>>> mv /var/cache/yum/base/primary.xml.gz/sqlite /tmp
>>>
>>> and try again I suppose - yes, that file is supposed to be much larger - I 
>>> suspect that it will create a new 'copy' of that file if it fails to find 
>>> it.
>> Unfortunately yum recreates the same corrupted file, even if I move it
>> out or delete it:
>
> Are you behind a proxy?

No, there are no proxies between this box and the Internet (and all the 
other boxes where the same problem appears aren't behind proxies either).

Based on what I'm seeing, I do not think that yum is downloading a 
corrupt sqlite database, rather than it is creating a corrupt database 
all by itself. I have however no definite confirmation of this and I 
would like to have one before filing a bug against yum.

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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Craig White]

On Sep 15, 2011, at 3:22 PM, Sebastiano Pilla wrote:

> Josh Miller wrote:
>> On 09/15/2011 02:45 PM, Sebastiano Pilla wrote:
>>> Craig White wrote:
 mv /var/cache/yum/base/primary.xml.gz/sqlite /tmp
 
 and try again I suppose - yes, that file is supposed to be much larger - I 
 suspect that it will create a new 'copy' of that file if it fails to find 
 it.
>>> Unfortunately yum recreates the same corrupted file, even if I move it
>>> out or delete it:
>> 
>> Are you behind a proxy?
> 
> No, there are no proxies between this box and the Internet (and all the 
> other boxes where the same problem appears aren't behind proxies either).
> 
> Based on what I'm seeing, I do not think that yum is downloading a 
> corrupt sqlite database, rather than it is creating a corrupt database 
> all by itself. I have however no definite confirmation of this and I 
> would like to have one before filing a bug against yum.

I would agree with your assessment but perhaps you can remove/reinstall sqlite 
but the thing that I don't understand is you said there was no output from rpm 
-Va which should mean that the sqlite installed verified correctly so there's 
no reason to be optimistic that removing/reinstalling sqlite will have any 
positive impact.

Also note - you can file a bug against yum but I suspect that it will go 
nowhere because there are so many installations that haven't had this issue and 
yet you suggested that you have multiple systems exhibiting this same problem 
which suggests that there's something in the methodologies you employ.

Craig
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Re: [CentOS] Yum segmentation fault updating from 5.6 to 5.7

[Kahlil Hodgson]

On 16/09/11 08:22, Sebastiano Pilla wrote:
> Based on what I'm seeing, I do not think that yum is downloading a 
> corrupt sqlite database, rather than it is creating a corrupt database 
> all by itself. I have however no definite confirmation of this and I 
> would like to have one before filing a bug against yum.

Perhaps some python/sqlite/gzip library used by yum is
broken/incompatible.  Do you have anything under /usr/local that may be
overriding the distro packages?  Perhaps an NFS mount that is shared by
all affected servers?

Kal
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[CentOS] Safely Remove Disk on LVM

[Muhammad Panji]

Dear All,
I plan to replace an error disk that is part of an LV. from LVM how-to
it could be done with using pvmove to move all PE from old disk to new
disk.But the howto also said that pvmove is slow. Anyone has
experience using pvmove on 2TB disk?

Is it possible to make all PE on the old disk empty so I don't have to
do pvmove (assuming that I can make a free space >= 2TB). Thank you in
advance
Regards,





-- 
-
Muhammad Panji
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[CentOS] Dedup (again)

[Fajar Priyanto]

Hi all,
Back in March someone asked about deduplication in Centos and I
replied I'm using LessFS.
I want to report that my overall experience is that I have performance
issue up to the point that I would like to abandon it.

The OP was asking http://www.opendedup.org/
How is it?

Thanks
Fajar
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Re: [CentOS] Dedup (again)

[John R Pierce]

On 09/15/11 9:10 PM, Christopher Chan wrote:
> ZFS, ZFS, ZFS

dedup is an extremely new feature in ZFS and not even enabled in the 
latest release of supported Solaris 10...  so, I'd wonder if the A) the 
source code for it is in the open source version (Oracle hasn't been 
releasing new source code to much of anything) or B) its considered 
stable yet.

frankly, the only place I'd consider using any sort of dedup is in a 
backup system like backuppc, where its implemented at an application 
level rather than transparently in the file system.  as your file system 
object count grows, it becomes astronomically more expensive.


-- 
john r pierceN 37, W 122
santa cruz ca mid-left coast

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Re: [CentOS] Dedup (again)

[Christopher Chan]

On Friday, September 16, 2011 11:58 AM, Fajar Priyanto wrote:
> Hi all,
> Back in March someone asked about deduplication in Centos and I
> replied I'm using LessFS.
> I want to report that my overall experience is that I have performance
> issue up to the point that I would like to abandon it.
>
> The OP was asking http://www.opendedup.org/
> How is it?

ZFS, ZFS, ZFS
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Re: [CentOS] Dedup (again)

[Fajar Priyanto]

On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Fajar Priyanto  wrote:
> The OP was asking http://www.opendedup.org/
> How is it?

Hmm opendedup requires java which I'm not allowed to use.
:(
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Re: [CentOS] CentOS 5.6 to 5.7 upgrade

[Sorin Srbu]

>-Original Message-
>From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On
Behalf
>Of m.r...@5-cent.us
>Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 4:04 PM
>To: CentOS mailing list
>Subject: Re: [CentOS] CentOS 5.6 to 5.7 upgrade
>
>For us, it's breaking an ssh-restrict script we use with rsync for
>backups, mangling some passed wildcards.

Is this a homebrew backup solution?

I use BackupPC, and so far I haven't seen any problems
-- 
/Sorin


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