Re: [CentOS] OT: Hardware upgrade help

[Kenneth Porter]

--On Wednesday, August 24, 2011 3:04 AM +0100 Always Learning 
 wrote:

> You need to do a little on-line reading about USB (the effective
> replacement for Centronics (parallel) ports and RS232/RS423 serial
> ports. Also about the PCI replacement called PCI-Express.

I see USB as being on par more with PCI-E than RS232/Centronics. It's a 
general external expansion bus, but lacks bus-mastering. Compare to 
Firewire, which adds bus-mastering. So for bus-level interfaces, use PCI-E 
inside the box, and USB or Firewire outside the box.

Ethernet and SATA interfaces then stack on top of PCI-E/USB/Firewire. (As 
does the older IDE now often referred to as PATA.)

The lspci and lsusb command line utilities can be used to view the topology 
of the buses. (Is there a Linux GUI tool similar to Windows Device Manager 
in view-by-connection mode to graphically show the topology? I've found 
that view a good way to get one's head around how this stuff goes together.)
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Re: [CentOS] OT: Hardware upgrade help

[Kenneth Porter]

--On Tuesday, August 23, 2011 11:57 PM -0700 John R Pierce 
 wrote:

> the x86_64 architecture has teh same basic instructions as x86_32, but
> with more registers which are also wider 64 bit registers.

As someone who coded in assembler for PDP-11, PDP-10, 8086, and 68000, I 
have to report that more registers is a Very Good Thing. Just how many more 
registers do you get when going to 64-bit?


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Re: [CentOS] UPS issues with PFC PSU

[Kai Schaetzl]

Sorry to be mean. But there are things off-topic and there are things 
ooo-tooocc. And this one belongs in the 
second category. Really, please take this elsewhere. Thanks.

Kai


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Re: [CentOS] Not receiving root mail

[Tony Mountifield]

In article <50117.213.157.4.156.1314117697.squir...@nimrod.dscd.de>,
Alexander Dalloz  wrote:
> > In article
> > ,
> > Anne Wilson  wrote:
> 
> >> I removed sendmail - but it also removed clamav-milter.  When I tried
> >> to re-install clamav-milter it would have pulled sendmail back in so I
> >> aborted.  Advice?
> >
> > milters are specific to sendmail. clamav-milter is a linkage between
> > ClamAV and sendmail, so you don't need it with postfix. If you want to
> > use ClamAV, you will need to find out how to link it with postfix, but
> > it won't be by using clamav-milter.
> 
> Sorry Tony, that's not correct. Though the MILTER interface (Send_M_ail
> f_ILTER) originally was an enhancement in Sendmail, meanwhile since quite
> some time Postfix supports milter applications as well.
> 
> http://www.postfix.org/MILTER_README.html
> 
> So of course Postfix users can implement milter based solutions. And in
> contrast to an AMaViS setup a milter based binding of ClamAV is
> lightweight.

OK, thanks, I stand corrected, and educated! Must admit I'm not very
familiar with postfix - only ever tried to do some debugging on it for
someone else.

Of course, that begs the question of whether clamav-milter would work
with postfix. If so, it should depend on (sendmail OR postfix). If not,
perhaps it should be called clamav-milter-sendmail instead, with another
package for clamav-milter-postfix.

Cheers
Tony
-- 
Tony Mountifield
Work: t...@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: t...@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org
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Re: [CentOS] OT: Hardware upgrade help

[Lamar Owen]

On Tuesday, August 23, 2011 10:38:30 PM Drew wrote:
> > The older ISA (now called PATA = Parallel ATA) has been replaced by SATA
> > (Serial ATA). SATA has 3 speeds. Most new disks are either SATA 2 or
> > SATA 3 speed.
> 
> IDE I assume you meant. :) ISA was the old bus PCI replaced.

Yes, but, technically PATA is a souped-up ISA bus with address decode already 
done for all but the lower few bits.  Old 16-bit ISA IDE cards were often 
referred to as paddleboards because the only thing on the card was a small 
address decoder/buffer chip and the rest of the lines went virtually straight 
through from the ISA bus to the drive.

So saying ISA is only partially incorrect. :-)
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Re: [CentOS] OT: Hardware upgrade help

[John R Pierce]

On 08/24/11 12:05 AM, Kenneth Porter wrote:
> As someone who coded in assembler for PDP-11, PDP-10, 8086, and 68000, I
> have to report that more registers is a Very Good Thing. Just how many more
> registers do you get when going to 64-bit?

indeed, thats the main performance gain, other than the increased 
address space.  in fact, for RISC architectures such as SPARC, Power, 
MIPS, where there were already sufficient registers, and for which the 
64 bit extensions were virtually identical to the existing 32 bit base 
architecture, going to 64 bit code for most applications that dont need 
additional linear address space is actually a performance /penalty/ due 
to the increase in size of the code base for the longer offsets and 
addresses.

On the x86_64, there are 16 64bit registers instead of the 8 16/32 bit 
of the 8086/386 instruction set architecture (of those 8 or 16, two are 
the dedicated stack pointer and base pointer registers, leaving really 
only 6 or 14 general purpose registers).


-- 
john r pierceN 37, W 122
santa cruz ca mid-left coast

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Re: [CentOS] OT: Hardware upgrade help

[ken]

On 08/24/2011 01:59 AM John R Pierce wrote:
> On 08/23/11 9:21 PM, ken wrote:
>> I haven't looked up and compared the lists of instructions
>> on 32- vs. 64-bit CPUs, but generally the bigger processors have more,
>> and more sophisticated, instructions.  This means, e.g., that instead of
>> taking 20 steps to do a calculation on a 32-bit CPU, it might be done in
>> 5 steps on a 64-bit.
> 
> except, this is almost entirely wrong.

LOL

-- 
War is a failure of the imagination.
--William Blake


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Re: [CentOS] OT: Hardware upgrade help

[James Szinger]

On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Thomas Dukes  wrote:
> I would like to upgrade my system to a 64 bit machine. I'd like to find a
> bare bones platform to build on. I'm not looking to spend a lot of money on
> this as it is a home system. I looked on the CentOS sponsor page but only
> saw hosting services.
>
> I haven't kept up with hardware in years so I'm dumber than dirt on what's
> out there. I would prefer a desktop so I can stack it. Don't think I need to
> do the Xeon as that would be overkill for a home user.
>
> This would be replacing my 'server' so I need PCI slots for an additional
> NIC and a 32 bit video capture card used for zoneminder. Not sure what PCI
> express is or if my cards would work in those slots. Yep, I'm running 8 yrs
> old machines, IBM NetVistas. :-(

If all the jargon is new to you, you might be better off getting a pre-built
system.  System integration can be hit or miss until one acquires
experience the hard way.   My current home "server" is an off-lease
business-class HP desktop. It's built from commodity parts, so it's
upgradable.  Look at the service manual before you buy.  And the HP
runs CentOS beautifully.

Jim
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Re: [CentOS] OT: Hardware upgrade help

[Kenneth Porter]

--On Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:17 PM -0400 Thomas Dukes  
wrote:

> I need PCI slots for an additional NIC and a 32 bit video capture card
> used for zoneminder.

Check with the zoneminder people to see what video capture options you can 
get today that will work with their code. Fewer and fewer machines come 
with PCI slots, which are incompatible with PCI-E. Some include a single 
PCI slot. Possibilities include an "IP camera" or a USB camera.
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Re: [CentOS] OT: Hardware upgrade help

[m . roth]

Kenneth Porter wrote:
> --On Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:17 PM -0400 Thomas Dukes
> 
> wrote:
>
>> I need PCI slots for an additional NIC and a 32 bit video capture card
>> used for zoneminder.
>
> Check with the zoneminder people to see what video capture options you can
> get today that will work with their code. Fewer and fewer machines come
> with PCI slots, which are incompatible with PCI-E. Some include a single
> PCI slot. Possibilities include an "IP camera" or a USB camera.

Check

It's got build your own system guides, for budget, performance, and
gaming. I was looking at it a few months ago, and the alternate board to
the budget, I think, had several PCI slots, as well as PCI-X.

mark

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Re: [CentOS] UPS issues with PFC PSU

[Robert Arkiletian]

On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 12:26 AM, Kai Schaetzl  wrote:
> Sorry to be mean. But there are things off-topic and there are things
> ooo-tooocc. And this one belongs in the
> second category. Really, please take this elsewhere. Thanks.
>

I've seen many threads about hardware recommendations as there are
many sys admins on this list. It IS for a CentOS box if that makes it
more on topic. Maybe I should have put an 'OT' in front of the
subject.

Anyway, have you anything experience with CyberPower UPS's?

Thanks
-- 
Robert Arkiletian
Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada
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Re: [CentOS] UPS issues with PFC PSU

[m . roth]

Robert Arkiletian wrote:

> Anyway, have you anything experience with CyberPower UPS's?

Small ones, for workstations? Yep, I've got one on mine at home. Been good.

  mark

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Re: [CentOS] OT: Hardware upgrade help

[Keith Roberts]

On Wed, 24 Aug 2011, Always Learning wrote:

> To: CentOS mailing list 
> From: Always Learning 
> Subject: Re: [CentOS] OT: Hardware upgrade help
> 
> I suggest:
>
>   mini-tower / half-tower
>   AMD 4 core processor with virtualization facility
>   (AMD are cheaper than Intel in Europe)
>   (if buying Intel get the virtualization facility)
>   8 GB RAM
>   motherboard
>   with PCI Express and 1 or 2 older pci slots
>   4 SATA (and 2 PATA (ISA) for any old drives*)
>   USB 2 or even USB 3
>   Ethernet controller
>   sound chips
>   DVD writer
>   500 GB SATA HDD
>   HDD caddy for easy removal of the HDD
>
> * Some ASRock motherboard have it

Ebay sell SATA -> PATA and vica versa adapters, plus others. 
So you should be able to use existing PATA drives on a newer 
SATA m/b with the right adapter.

HTH

Keith

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Re: [CentOS] OT: Hardware upgrade help

[John R Pierce]

On 08/24/11 1:16 PM, Keith Roberts wrote:
> Ebay sell SATA ->  PATA and vica versa adapters, plus others.
> So you should be able to use existing PATA drives on a newer
> SATA m/b with the right adapter.

not even worth the bother.   SATA DVD-RW drives that are probably 6X 
better than the last ATA versions are $19.   SATA hard disks are dirt 
cheap for terabytes.  keeping a pile of obsolete hardware alive in a new 
system is just a waste of time.



-- 
john r pierceN 37, W 122
santa cruz ca mid-left coast

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Re: [CentOS] UPS issues with PFC PSU

[Kai Schaetzl]

Please don't argue. Just don't send any more way off-topic stuff in the 
future. Thanks.

Kai


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Re: [CentOS] UPS issues with PFC PSU

[Denniston, Todd A CIV NAVSURFWARCENDIV Crane]

> -Original Message-
> From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On
> Behalf Of m.r...@5-cent.us
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 13:43
> To: CentOS mailing list
> Subject: Re: [CentOS] UPS issues with PFC PSU
> 
> Robert Arkiletian wrote:
> 
> > Anyway, have you anything experience with CyberPower UPS's?
> 
> Small ones, for workstations? Yep, I've got one on mine at home. Been
> good.

Have you found a program to communicate with it for getting it's/line's
status, and causing shutdown to occur gracefully? And what program was
it? :)
That was the issue I had with one a few years ago.

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Re: [CentOS] UPS issues with PFC PSU

[m . roth]

Denniston, Todd A CIV NAVSURFWARCENDIV Crane wrote:
>> Behalf Of m.r...@5-cent.us
>> Robert Arkiletian wrote:
>> 
>> > Anyway, have you anything experience with CyberPower UPS's?
>>
>> Small ones, for workstations? Yep, I've got one on mine at home. Been
good.
>
> Have you found a program to communicate with it for getting it's/line's
status, and causing shutdown to occur gracefully? And what program was
it? :)
> That was the issue I had with one a few years ago.

Haven't looked. I ought to try it, given my electric co

   mark



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Re: [CentOS] UPS issues with PFC PSU

[Rudi Ahlers]

How exactly is it OT if he needs the UPS to talk to CentOS??


please stop being so stuckup

On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Kai Schaetzl  wrote:
> Sorry to be mean. But there are things off-topic and there are things
> ooo-tooocc. And this one belongs in the
> second category. Really, please take this elsewhere. Thanks.
>
> Kai
>
>
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-- 
Kind Regards
Rudi Ahlers
SoftDux

Website: http://www.SoftDux.com
Technical Blog: http://Blog.SoftDux.com
Office: 087 805 9573
Cell: 082 554 7532
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Re: [CentOS] OT: Hardware upgrade help

[Thomas Dukes]

Well!! This has been an adventure. I really appreciate all the help!!

Found this on tigerdirect:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4
01989&sku=B69-1317

Again, any advice, comments, etc., regarding any incompatibilites would be
welcomed!!

TIA,

Eddie


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Re: [CentOS] UPS issues with PFC PSU

[John R. Dennison]

On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 01:04:59AM +0200, Rudi Ahlers wrote:
> How exactly is it OT if he needs the UPS to talk to CentOS??

Please don't top-post.

Because the original post made no mention of "CentOS" at all.  At least
that's my guess and that's also the first impression I had about the
post.

> please stop being so stuckup

Please understand that this list has been filled with off-topic garbage
over the past year or so and many of us are getting more than a little
frustrated with it.  Many people that have been here for years have
unsub'd and many more continue to mention that as a possibility.  Add to
that the fact that some of the centos team themselves are no longer on
this list and that should tell you something.  While this thread turned
out to have a centos connection the same can not be said for many of the
others over the past year.





John
-- 
As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an
enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless.  I refer, of course, to
the federal government.

-- Dave Barry (3 July 1947-), Pulitzer Prize-winning American author and
   columnist, Knight Ridder syndicate, New York Daily News, 12 December
   2004


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Re: [CentOS] OT: Hardware upgrade help

[Always Learning]

On Wed, 2011-08-24 at 21:16 +0100, Keith Roberts wrote:

> Ebay sell SATA -> PATA and vica versa adapters, plus others. 
> So you should be able to use existing PATA drives on a newer 
> SATA m/b with the right adapter.

I was trying to avoid mentioning that 'name' in case one of the readers
got upset about 'commercial advertising'. If buying small parts from
them, get it from China, means waiting 2 - 3 weeks, at a really low
price. Some SATA motherboards have two PATA connections.

'That name' was where I got my current development machine at a good
price and without having to pay the almost compulsory Windoze Tax.

Paul.



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Re: [CentOS] UPS issues with PFC PSU

[Rudi Ahlers]

On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 1:18 AM, John R. Dennison  wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 01:04:59AM +0200, Rudi Ahlers wrote:
>> How exactly is it OT if he needs the UPS to talk to CentOS??
>
> Please don't top-post.
>
> Because the original post made no mention of "CentOS" at all.  At least
> that's my guess and that's also the first impression I had about the
> post.
>

well, where else would he connect the UPS to? His fish tank?
Surely if someone has a PC, and is subscribed to a Linux mailing linux
and asks for advice on a hardware device then it would be related to
compatibility as well.

Someone running Windows probably wouldn't even know if there are other
brands available than what he can get from his local PC shop. And just
about every single piece of hardware, which can be purchased from any
shop will always work on Windows. So why would he bother asking if it
would work?


>> please stop being so stuckup
>
> Please understand that this list has been filled with off-topic garbage
> over the past year or so and many of us are getting more than a little
> frustrated with it.  Many people that have been here for years have
> unsub'd and many more continue to mention that as a possibility.  Add to
> that the fact that some of the centos team themselves are no longer on
> this list and that should tell you something.  While this thread turned
> out to have a centos connection the same can not be said for many of the
> others over the past year.


EVEN if that's the case (staff leaving and people getting irretated),
it's still no reason to be rude with someone without knowing all the
facts to his question first.

Many people would rather trust the advice given on a list like this
than the advice given by a sales rep. Just cause you're a genius and
don't need any help with anything ever, doesn't mean the next guy is
as clever as you.



>
>
>
>
>
>                                                        John
> --
> As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an
> enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless.  I refer, of course, to
> the federal government.
>
> -- Dave Barry (3 July 1947-), Pulitzer Prize-winning American author and
>   columnist, Knight Ridder syndicate, New York Daily News, 12 December
>   2004
>
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>



-- 
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Rudi Ahlers
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Re: [CentOS] OT: Hardware upgrade help

[Always Learning]

On Wed, 2011-08-24 at 13:19 -0700, John R Pierce wrote:

> not even worth the bother.   SATA DVD-RW drives that are probably 6X 
> better than the last ATA versions are $19.   SATA hard disks are dirt 
> cheap for terabytes.

Wish we had those low prices in England. Buyers should be aware that
HDDs can vary in performance. I always check with 

http://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/ and select 'searchable HDD list'


I always buy high performance at the lowest possible price.
-- 
With best regards,

Paul.
England,
EU.


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Re: [CentOS] UPS issues with PFC PSU

[Robert Arkiletian]

On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Rudi Ahlers  wrote:
>> Because the original post made no mention of "CentOS" at all.  At least
>> that's my guess and that's also the first impression I had about the
>> post.

Sorry I should have initially stated it was for CentOS6.

>>
>
> well, where else would he connect the UPS to? His fish tank?
> Surely if someone has a PC, and is subscribed to a Linux mailing linux
> and asks for advice on a hardware device then it would be related to
> compatibility as well.
>

Thanks for the support but I really don't want my query to turn into a
debate about what's off topic. It's just that I have only ever used
APC and apcupsd. I've never used CyberPower and wondered if other
CentOS people were using it with success/reliability. If that's off
topic then I've learned something.


-- 
Robert Arkiletian
Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada
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Re: [CentOS] UPS issues with PFC PSU

[John R. Dennison]

On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 01:26:39AM +0200, Rudi Ahlers wrote:
> 
> well, where else would he connect the UPS to? His fish tank?

Based on past nonsensical threads in this list that is indeed a
possibility, yes.

> Surely if someone has a PC, and is subscribed to a Linux mailing linux
> and asks for advice on a hardware device then it would be related to
> compatibility as well.

Sorry, I don't make such assumptions; quite frankly neither should you
or anyone else.

> Someone running Windows probably wouldn't even know if there are other
> brands available than what he can get from his local PC shop. And just
> about every single piece of hardware, which can be purchased from any
> shop will always work on Windows. So why would he bother asking if it
> would work?

Does it make you feel better to insult the many, many millions of
people that run windows?

> EVEN if that's the case (staff leaving and people getting irretated),
> it's still no reason to be rude with someone without knowing all the
> facts to his question first.

I suppose it's too much to ask that people make a connection to CentOS
in their initial post so all these types of arguments can be put to
rest?  It not only makes the post valid but it also supplies the readers
of the list with the additional information they need to actually help
the original poster.  Note: I am simply using the OP of this thread as
an example, I am not necessarily pointing fingers.

> Many people would rather trust the advice given on a list like this
> than the advice given by a sales rep. Just cause you're a genius and
> don't need any help with anything ever, doesn't mean the next guy is
> as clever as you.

Lately the advice on this list is quite often of questionable worth.




John
-- 
Yesterday was the first anniversary of the discovery of Neptune -- in Neptune
years.  11 July 2011 marks the first full orbit of the planet Neptune since its
discovery on the night of September 23-24, 1846.

-- Charlie Jane Anders, io9.com, based on an article by Tammy Plotner,
   universetoday.com, 11 July 2011


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