Re: [board-discuss] Board of Directors Meeting 2022-10-17
Hi Andreas, all, Andreas Mantke wrote: > Am 21.10.22 um 15:18 schrieb Simon Phipps: > > On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 1:54 PM Andreas Mantke wrote: > > if I read the minutes correctly there are four board members > > with a CoI, because they provided or were involved in > > providing LibreOffice in the app stores within their company / > > brand. > > > > No, you do not read the minutes correctly. No-one declared a conflict > > of interests. The directors involved declared an interest, but did not > > feel that it was in conflict with their duties as directors and > > consequently there was no conflict of interest. > That is indeed what happened. People in the meeting will have noticed, that there was in fact consensus on how to proceed with the app stores. Hardly an indication of diverging (or conflicting) interests. Cheers, -- Thorsten -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Board of Directors Meeting 2022-10-17
Hi Thorsten, hi all, Am 22.10.22 um 16:07 schrieb Thorsten Behrens: Hi Andreas, all, Andreas Mantke wrote: Am 21.10.22 um 15:18 schrieb Simon Phipps: On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 1:54 PM Andreas Mantke wrote: if I read the minutes correctly there are four board members with a CoI, because they provided or were involved in providing LibreOffice in the app stores within their company / brand. No, you do not read the minutes correctly. No-one declared a conflict of interests. The directors involved declared an interest, but did not feel that it was in conflict with their duties as directors and consequently there was no conflict of interest. That is indeed what happened. People in the meeting will have noticed, that there was in fact consensus on how to proceed with the app stores. Hardly an indication of diverging (or conflicting) interests. I'd expect you to read the document from the European Commission, linked in the mail from Paolo Vecchi in this thread. Then you'll find out that CoI is not about postmortem but it is a policy in front of a discussion/decision/process. It is also sufficient that are a _possible_ CoI on a topic. Thus it is nonessential what was the outcome of the discussion/talk (because this is postmortem). If there is only the chance of a _possible_ CoI in front of a discussion/decision/process the ones with such a possible CoI has to leave the meeting (You could get that really clear from the above European Commission document). Regards, Andreas -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Board of Directors Meeting 2022-10-17
Hi! On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 5:50 PM Andreas Mantke wrote: > > If there is only the chance of a _possible_ CoI in front of a > discussion/decision/process the ones with such a possible CoI has to > leave the meeting (You could get that really clear from the above > European Commission document). > All the directors present in the meeting gave useful information relating to their interests, which everyone present took into account. They each personally judged that they did not cause an actual or apparent conflict. There was no indication of any conflict with the business of the meeting arising from those interests (for example, Thorsten's "interest" was having published LibreOffice Vanilla on behalf of the Foundation in the past). The business of the meeting proceeded and consensus was reached. This is the normal way business is conducted everywhere. Taking the position you are describing would lead to obviously unreasonable outcomes for a community such as ours. For example (and to get away from the usual suspects), as the owner of a successful cloud hosting business that apparently deploys NextCloud and OwnCloud for clients, using your logic Paolo Vecchi should have removed himself from any and all conversations about LibreOffice Online and take no part in any future discussion about them, as he clearly has a related interest. I am not expecting that; are you? We are a community-of-interest and we can expect many people to have interests to declare in our work - and not just arising from employment. The Board needs to know and understand each director's interest, and directors need to make realistic and honest decisions about when they are unable to participate due to an actual conflict. It is a decision for each individual and we have to trust each other that is being made. It is inappropriate and harrassing for people to continually raise the subject. Accusations of breach of trust (which means alleging either a failure to disclose an interest or persisting in a decision process in spite of an unresolved conflict of declared interests) are very serious and should be the rare exception, not the constantly-repeated refrain of every meeting as they are now. It really is time for this to stop - it undermines trust and poisons discussion. I work in this subject area fairly often and I wrote an informal article a while ago on the subject that may help; see https://minkiver.se/~/WebminkInDraft/Trusting-Charity-Directors Cheers Simon -- *Simon Phipps* *TDF Trustee*
Re: [board-discuss] Board of Directors Meeting 2022-10-17
Hi all, Am 22.10.22 um 19:36 schrieb Simon Phipps: Hi! On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 5:50 PM Andreas Mantke wrote: If there is only the chance of a _possible_ CoI in front of a discussion/decision/process the ones with such a possible CoI has to leave the meeting (You could get that really clear from the above European Commission document). All the directors present in the meeting gave useful information relating to their interests, which everyone present took into account. They each personally judged that they did not cause an actual or apparent conflict. There was no indication of any conflict with the business of the meeting arising from those interests (for example, Thorsten's "interest" was having published LibreOffice Vanilla on behalf of the Foundation in the past). The business of the meeting proceeded and consensus was reached. This is the normal way business is conducted everywhere. Taking the position you are describing would lead to obviously unreasonable outcomes for a community such as ours. For example (and to get away from the usual suspects), as the owner of a successful cloud hosting business that apparently deploys NextCloud and OwnCloud for clients, using your logic Paolo Vecchi should have removed himself from any and all conversations about LibreOffice Online and take no part in any future discussion about them, as he clearly has a related interest. I am not expecting that; are you? We are a community-of-interest and we can expect many people to have interests to declare in our work - and not just arising from employment. The Board needs to know and understand each director's interest, and directors need to make realistic and honest decisions about when they are unable to participate due to an actual conflict. It is a decision for each individual and we have to trust each other that is being made. It is inappropriate and harrassing for people to continually raise the subject. Accusations of breach of trust (which means alleging either a failure to disclose an interest or persisting in a decision process in spite of an unresolved conflict of declared interests) are very serious and should be the rare exception, not the constantly-repeated refrain of every meeting as they are now. It really is time for this to stop - it undermines trust and poisons discussion. I work in this subject area fairly often and I wrote an informal article a while ago on the subject that may help; see https://minkiver.se/~/WebminkInDraft/Trusting-Charity-Directors it would help much more to read through the document from the European Commission, which was linked in the mail from Paolo in this thread. Regards, Andreas -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
