Re: About root zones

2011-12-21 Thread Peter Andreev
2011/12/20 Matus UHLAR - fantomas :
>> 2011/12/20 Mark Andrews :
>>>
>>>        Named has a compiled in set of root hints.  It is used if
>>>        a root zone is not defined in named.conf.
>
>
> On 20.12.11 17:37, Peter Andreev wrote:
>>
>> Whether it means that without hint zone named still can perform
>> iterative lookups for its internal purposes?
>
>
> yes.
This fact is really disappointing.
Anyway thank you, Matus, for answer
>
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Re: About root zones

2011-12-21 Thread Matus UHLAR - fantomas

2011/12/20 Mark Andrews :

       Named has a compiled in set of root hints.  It is used if
       a root zone is not defined in named.conf.



On 20.12.11 17:37, Peter Andreev wrote:

Whether it means that without hint zone named still can perform
iterative lookups for its internal purposes?



2011/12/20 Matus UHLAR - fantomas :

yes.


On 21.12.11 12:17, Peter Andreev wrote:

This fact is really disappointing.


well, it's needed for proper functionality. What exactly seems to be 
your problem?


Note that
- only clients that are allowed to recurse are able to see date
  the "type hint" zone
- only clients from local networks are allowed to recurse by default.
  You can tune this by configuring the "allow-recursion" option.
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Re: load-balancing in DNS using two A records

2011-12-21 Thread Matus UHLAR - fantomas

In message <2011122018.ga3...@fantomas.sk>, Matus UHLAR - fantomas writes:

Long time ago when we were trying to have multiple web servers for
redundancy and balancing, we have found that multiple IP's is not a
good solution (parts of web pages didn't load). We selected L3
switches then...


On 21.12.11 09:26, Mark Andrews wrote:

Which is really the result of badly designed clients.  Clients are getting
better with address affinity and fast failover on unreachable servers.


It's been long time ago (~10 years). And even if they did failover, 30s 
(tcp connection timeout) delays are very ugly when loading a web page.

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Re: About root zones

2011-12-21 Thread Peter Andreev
2011/12/21 Matus UHLAR - fantomas :
 2011/12/20 Mark Andrews :
>
>        Named has a compiled in set of root hints.  It is used if
>        a root zone is not defined in named.conf.
>
>
>>> On 20.12.11 17:37, Peter Andreev wrote:

 Whether it means that without hint zone named still can perform
 iterative lookups for its internal purposes?
>
>
>> 2011/12/20 Matus UHLAR - fantomas :
>>>
>>> yes.
>
>
> On 21.12.11 12:17, Peter Andreev wrote:
>>
>> This fact is really disappointing.
>
>
> well, it's needed for proper functionality. What exactly seems to be your
> problem?

Well, we run a bunch of authoritative-only slave servers and obviously
they don't have to perform any kind of lookups.
Some time ago user complained that one of these slave servers
responses with wrong data. My colleague tried to investigate this
issue, but without any success. Just in case we disabled
"additional-from-cache".
That's why any sort of internal lookups looks very suspicious for me.

>
> Note that
> - only clients that are allowed to recurse are able to see date
>  the "type hint" zone
> - only clients from local networks are allowed to recurse by default.
>  You can tune this by configuring the "allow-recursion" option.
>
> --
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[no subject]

2011-12-21 Thread Konstantin V. Krotov

Hello, list!
I have split view on my name-servers (master and slave), for internal 
and external clients i have zone with similar names, but different content.

Part of config named.conf on master:

view "internal" {
match-clients { myclients; };
recursion yes;
match-recursive-only yes;
allow-recursion { myclients; };
...
zone "10.168.192.in-addr.arpa" {
type master;
file "10.168.192.in-addr.arpa.db";
allow-transfer {transfer_acl;};
allow-update {none;};
};
...
}

view "external" {
match-clients { "any"; };
recursion no;
...
[here descriptions of zone]
}

Well, then i have "match-recursive-only yes" directive in "internal" 
view, slave name-server report: "zone 
10.168.192.in-addr.arpa/IN/internal: refresh: non-authoritative answer 
from master xx.xx.136.2#53 (source xx.xx.140.26#0). If 
match-recursive-only no, zone transfer to slave all right. There i have 
wrong? Thx.


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Re: I specify subject: split view, match-recursive-only, non-authoritative answer from master

2011-12-21 Thread Konstantin V. Krotov

21.12.2011 13:54, Konstantin V. Krotov пишет:

Hello, list!
I have split view on my name-servers (master and slave), for internal
and external clients i have zone with similar names, but different content.
Part of config named.conf on master:

view "internal" {
match-clients { myclients; };
recursion yes;
match-recursive-only yes;
allow-recursion { myclients; };
...
zone "10.168.192.in-addr.arpa" {
type master;
file "10.168.192.in-addr.arpa.db";
allow-transfer {transfer_acl;};
allow-update {none;};
};
...
}

view "external" {
match-clients { "any"; };
recursion no;
...
[here descriptions of zone]
}

Well, then i have "match-recursive-only yes" directive in "internal"
view, slave name-server report: "zone
10.168.192.in-addr.arpa/IN/internal: refresh: non-authoritative answer
from master xx.xx.136.2#53 (source xx.xx.140.26#0). If
match-recursive-only no, zone transfer to slave all right. There i have
wrong? Thx.



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Re: I specify subject: split view, match-recursive-only, non-authoritative answer from master

2011-12-21 Thread Gelo
Hi,

Maybe this can help you.

First you need two network interfaces with diferent ip.

At the internal view declaration add transfer-source 192.168.11.x; ( has to
be different from your public/external)

In the zone statement, you must specify the private IP address of your
slaves, at allow-transfer clause

I hope you worth something.


regards.
Gelo

2011/12/21 Konstantin V. Krotov 

> 21.12.2011 13:54, Konstantin V. Krotov пишет:
>
>> Hello, list!
>> I have split view on my name-servers (master and slave), for internal
>> and external clients i have zone with similar names, but different
>> content.
>> Part of config named.conf on master:
>>
>> view "internal" {
>> match-clients { myclients; };
>> recursion yes;
>> match-recursive-only yes;
>> allow-recursion { myclients; };
>> ...
>> zone "10.168.192.in-addr.arpa" {
>> type master;
>> file "10.168.192.in-addr.arpa.db";
>> allow-transfer {transfer_acl;};
>> allow-update {none;};
>> };
>> ...
>> }
>>
>> view "external" {
>> match-clients { "any"; };
>> recursion no;
>> ...
>> [here descriptions of zone]
>> }
>>
>> Well, then i have "match-recursive-only yes" directive in "internal"
>> view, slave name-server report: "zone
>> 10.168.192.in-addr.arpa/IN/**internal: refresh: non-authoritative answer
>> from master xx.xx.136.2#53 (source xx.xx.140.26#0). If
>> match-recursive-only no, zone transfer to slave all right. There i have
>> wrong? Thx.
>>
>>
> --
> WBR, Konstantin V. Krotov
> CJSs "Information Systems"
> mailto: k...@insysnet.ru
> phone: +7 (8332) 51-35-95
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Re: load-balancing in DNS using two A records

2011-12-21 Thread Mark Andrews

In message <20111221083337.gb5...@fantomas.sk>, Matus UHLAR - fantomas writes:
> >In message <2011122018.ga3...@fantomas.sk>, Matus UHLAR - fantomas write
> s:
> >> Long time ago when we were trying to have multiple web servers for
> >> redundancy and balancing, we have found that multiple IP's is not a
> >> good solution (parts of web pages didn't load). We selected L3
> >> switches then...
> 
> On 21.12.11 09:26, Mark Andrews wrote:
> >Which is really the result of badly designed clients.  Clients are getting
> >better with address affinity and fast failover on unreachable servers.
> 
> It's been long time ago (~10 years). And even if they did failover, 30s 
> (tcp connection timeout) delays are very ugly when loading a web page.

Indeed.  150-250ms [1] is a more realistic timeout for starting a second
connection attempt.  You use the connection which completes first and
close the others if they complete.

Mark

[1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-happy-eyeballs-07
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Re: load-balancing in DNS using two A records

2011-12-21 Thread Sam Wilson
In article ,
 Matus UHLAR - fantomas  wrote:

> On 20.12.11 19:37, Martin T wrote:
> >I have seen setups where one domain name has two address records.
> >First IP address is in the ISP-A network and the other one is in the
> >ISP-B network. In case I execute "host www..com", I always
> >get two IP addresses as a reply and they always appear by turns. Am I
> >correct, that setup like this provides redundancy as well as
> >load-balancing?
> 
> Kind of. It's much better to have real load-balancing and vailover by 
> multiple links or L3 load balancers. 

If you're really cheapskate and have a little scripting expertise you 
can do what we did before we went to hardware load balancing.  Give your 
systems names with short TTLs in a dynamic zone.  Have a watchdog 
process monitor the systems and remove any that don't respond.  It's not 
generally fast enough to help individual clients but it can help the 
overall availability of a system.  It's victim to browsers ignoring 
TTLs, of course, though I've never been able to verify such browser 
behaviour myself.

Sam
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RE: About root zones

2011-12-21 Thread Lightner, Jeff
"if a root zone is not defined in named.conf"

I wonder if you really do NOT want to ever hit root zones you could make your 
own entry in named.conf that points to localhost for root zone and thereby 
avoid hitting any real root?





-Original Message-
From: bind-users-bounces+jlightner=water@lists.isc.org 
[mailto:bind-users-bounces+jlightner=water@lists.isc.org] On Behalf Of 
Peter Andreev
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 4:05 AM
To: bind-users@lists.isc.org
Subject: Re: About root zones

2011/12/21 Matus UHLAR - fantomas :
 2011/12/20 Mark Andrews :
>
>Named has a compiled in set of root hints.  It is used if
>a root zone is not defined in named.conf.
>
>
>>> On 20.12.11 17:37, Peter Andreev wrote:

 Whether it means that without hint zone named still can perform
 iterative lookups for its internal purposes?
>
>
>> 2011/12/20 Matus UHLAR - fantomas :
>>>
>>> yes.
>
>
> On 21.12.11 12:17, Peter Andreev wrote:
>>
>> This fact is really disappointing.
>
>
> well, it's needed for proper functionality. What exactly seems to be your
> problem?

Well, we run a bunch of authoritative-only slave servers and obviously
they don't have to perform any kind of lookups.
Some time ago user complained that one of these slave servers
responses with wrong data. My colleague tried to investigate this
issue, but without any success. Just in case we disabled
"additional-from-cache".
That's why any sort of internal lookups looks very suspicious for me.

>
> Note that
> - only clients that are allowed to recurse are able to see date
>  the "type hint" zone
> - only clients from local networks are allowed to recurse by default.
>  You can tune this by configuring the "allow-recursion" option.
>
> --
> Matus UHLAR - fantomas, uh...@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
> Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address.
> Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu.
> Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
> ___
>
> Please visit https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users to
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Re: About root zones

2011-12-21 Thread Matus UHLAR - fantomas

On 20.12.11 17:37, Peter Andreev wrote:

Whether it means that without hint zone named still can perform
iterative lookups for its internal purposes?


On 21.12.11 13:05, Peter Andreev wrote:

Well, we run a bunch of authoritative-only slave servers and obviously
they don't have to perform any kind of lookups.


If they don't have to, they won't.


Some time ago user complained that one of these slave servers
responses with wrong data. My colleague tried to investigate this
issue, but without any success. Just in case we disabled
"additional-from-cache".


Disabling recursion should do the same afaik. However, disabling 
additional-from-cache is OK and afaik disabled by default.



That's why any sort of internal lookups looks very suspicious for me.


server needs to resolve names if it's supposed to send NOTIFY messages.

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Re: About root zones

2011-12-21 Thread Peter Andreev
2011/12/21 Matus UHLAR - fantomas :
> On 20.12.11 17:37, Peter Andreev wrote:
>>
>> Whether it means that without hint zone named still can perform
>> iterative lookups for its internal purposes?
>
>
> On 21.12.11 13:05, Peter Andreev wrote:
>>
>> Well, we run a bunch of authoritative-only slave servers and obviously
>> they don't have to perform any kind of lookups.
>
>
> If they don't have to, they won't.

I hope so.
>
>
>> Some time ago user complained that one of these slave servers
>> responses with wrong data. My colleague tried to investigate this
>> issue, but without any success. Just in case we disabled
>> "additional-from-cache".
>
>
> Disabling recursion should do the same afaik. However, disabling
> additional-from-cache is OK and afaik disabled by default.

No, it is enabled by default.

>
>
>> That's why any sort of internal lookups looks very suspicious for me.
>
>
> server needs to resolve names if it's supposed to send NOTIFY messages.

All these servers are slaves. They don't send notifies.

So while I'm really confused about described issue, I'd like to not
speculate on it, because it happened only once.
What I don't like at all is the impossibility to disable these
lookups. Of course I can follow Jeff's advice and redirect these
lookups to localhost, but it is not a solution, it only transfers
problem to another area.

Ok, may be I'm a paranoid and worrying about trifles, but news about
compiled in hints astonished me.

>
>
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Re: About root zones

2011-12-21 Thread Matus UHLAR - fantomas

2011/12/21 Matus UHLAR - fantomas :

Disabling recursion should do the same afaik. However, disabling
additional-from-cache is OK and afaik disabled by default.


On 21.12.11 19:21, Peter Andreev wrote:

No, it is enabled by default.



server needs to resolve names if it's supposed to send NOTIFY messages.


All these servers are slaves. They don't send notifies.


they do, unless you have turned it off...


So while I'm really confused about described issue, I'd like to not
speculate on it, because it happened only once.
What I don't like at all is the impossibility to disable these
lookups.


Do you think if server needed to resolve something, and you would disable 
it, it would work better? I think just the oposite. If a server does 
lookups only when needed, then disabling required lookups would make 
it not working.



Ok, may be I'm a paranoid and worrying about trifles, but news about
compiled in hints astonished me.


since it only happened once and you weren't able to find out what 
really happened (did you at least make sure your customer is right?), 
it should not be an issue to care about this much...

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Re:

2011-12-21 Thread Chris Buxton
Zone refresh checks and zone transfer requests are not recursive queries. With 
match-recursive-only, the view cannot act as a master to any slave. You might 
want to consider a hidden master that does not have this option set.

Regards,
Chris Buxton
BlueCat Networks

On Dec 21, 2011, at 1:54 AM, Konstantin V. Krotov wrote:

> Hello, list!
> I have split view on my name-servers (master and slave), for internal and 
> external clients i have zone with similar names, but different content.
> Part of config named.conf on master:
> 
> view "internal" {
>match-clients { myclients; };
>recursion yes;
>match-recursive-only yes;
>allow-recursion { myclients; };
> ...
>zone "10.168.192.in-addr.arpa" {
>type master;
>file "10.168.192.in-addr.arpa.db";
>allow-transfer {transfer_acl;};
>allow-update {none;};
>};
> ...
> }
> 
> view "external" {
>match-clients { "any"; };
>recursion no;
> ...
> [here descriptions of zone]
> }
> 
> Well, then i have "match-recursive-only yes" directive in "internal" view, 
> slave name-server report: "zone 10.168.192.in-addr.arpa/IN/internal: refresh: 
> non-authoritative answer from master xx.xx.136.2#53 (source xx.xx.140.26#0). 
> If match-recursive-only no, zone transfer to slave all right. There i have 
> wrong? Thx.
> 
> -- 
> WBR, Konstantin V. Krotov
> mailto: k...@insysnet.ru
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Re: I specify subject: split view, match-recursive-only, non-authoritative answer from master

2011-12-21 Thread Chris Buxton
No, that's not correct. You can use TSIG keys to differentiate between views, 
without using separate interfaces. However, this will not solve the problem -- 
removing match-recursive-only will solve the problem.

Regards,
Chris Buxton
BlueCat Networks

On Dec 21, 2011, at 2:23 AM, Gelo wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Maybe this can help you.
> 
> First you need two network interfaces with diferent ip.
> 
> At the internal view declaration add transfer-source 192.168.11.x; ( has to 
> be different from your public/external)
> 
> In the zone statement, you must specify the private IP address of your 
> slaves, at allow-transfer clause
> 
> I hope you worth something.
> 
> 
> regards.
> Gelo
> 
> 2011/12/21 Konstantin V. Krotov 
> 21.12.2011 13:54, Konstantin V. Krotov пишет:
> Hello, list!
> I have split view on my name-servers (master and slave), for internal
> and external clients i have zone with similar names, but different content.
> Part of config named.conf on master:
> 
> view "internal" {
> match-clients { myclients; };
> recursion yes;
> match-recursive-only yes;
> allow-recursion { myclients; };
> ...
> zone "10.168.192.in-addr.arpa" {
> type master;
> file "10.168.192.in-addr.arpa.db";
> allow-transfer {transfer_acl;};
> allow-update {none;};
> };
> ...
> }
> 
> view "external" {
> match-clients { "any"; };
> recursion no;
> ...
> [here descriptions of zone]
> }
> 
> Well, then i have "match-recursive-only yes" directive in "internal"
> view, slave name-server report: "zone
> 10.168.192.in-addr.arpa/IN/internal: refresh: non-authoritative answer
> from master xx.xx.136.2#53 (source xx.xx.140.26#0). If
> match-recursive-only no, zone transfer to slave all right. There i have
> wrong? Thx.
> 
> 
> -- 
> WBR, Konstantin V. Krotov
> CJSs "Information Systems"
> mailto: k...@insysnet.ru
> phone: +7 (8332) 51-35-95
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Re: About root zones

2011-12-21 Thread David Forrest

On Wed, 21 Dec 2011, Peter Andreev wrote:



Ok, may be I'm a paranoid and worrying about trifles, but news about
compiled in hints astonished me.


The test shown here may calm you (if it shows refusal):
https://www.dns-oarc.net/oarc/articles/upward-referrals-considered-harmful

Dave

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Re: DLZ provider other than a database?

2011-12-21 Thread Doug Barton
On 12/20/2011 10:06 PM, SM wrote:
> At 17:53 20-12-2011, Doug Barton wrote:
>> I've been given an interesting challenge that I doubt I'm the first one
>> to face, so I thought I'd ask. :)  I have an internal project for which
>> I have a large'ish number of hostnames that I want to return a fairly
>> standard set of RRs for, but (for a variety of reasons) I'd rather not
>> create any sort of static data set for (e.g., zone file, actual db
>> entries, etc.).
> 
> https://github.com/jpmens/dlz_lua

Thanks, I'll take a look at that. Any other ideas?  :)


Doug

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Re: About root zones

2011-12-21 Thread Peter Andreev
David, thank you, I checked and all seems good :).

2011/12/21 Matus UHLAR - fantomas :
>> 2011/12/21 Matus UHLAR - fantomas :
>>>
>>> Disabling recursion should do the same afaik. However, disabling
>>>
>>> additional-from-cache is OK and afaik disabled by default.
>
>
> On 21.12.11 19:21, Peter Andreev wrote:
>>
>> No, it is enabled by default.
>
>
>>> server needs to resolve names if it's supposed to send NOTIFY messages.
>>
>>
>> All these servers are slaves. They don't send notifies.
>
>
> they do, unless you have turned it off...

Of course I turned it off, it's normal practice for slaves, I assume.

>
>
>> So while I'm really confused about described issue, I'd like to not
>> speculate on it, because it happened only once.
>> What I don't like at all is the impossibility to disable these
>> lookups.
>
>
> Do you think if server needed to resolve something, and you would disable
> it, it would work better? I think just the oposite. If a server does lookups
> only when needed, then disabling required lookups would make it not working.
>

I think that if server is authoritative - and - slave-only it should
use system resolver rather than querying by itself.

Where can I find information about what causes queries for internal
duties? If it can be found in ARM, could you please point me to the
right chapter. May be I missed something while reading it. The only
mention I have met is that additional resolving is needed for sending
notifies (And will this resolving be performed in case of list of
slaves' ip addresses is written in named.conf?).

>
>> Ok, may be I'm a paranoid and worrying about trifles, but news about
>> compiled in hints astonished me.
>
>
> since it only happened once and you weren't able to find out what really
> happened (did you at least make sure your customer is right?), it should not
> be an issue to care about this much...
>
> --
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