Re: [Ayatana] semi-transparent indicator menus

[Sunil Singh Rana]

Hello Friends,
 I am not an expert but there are some points I want to
mention that annoys me about unity.
To make it clear for close, maximize and minimize buttons I'll call widows
control buttons (WCB), and File, Edit, View, Tools,  I'll call Windows
menu options (WMO)
1) Whenever I want to close a maximized window I often get to hit the dock
and it appear without an invitation to annoys me. I tried to think of a
solution but I guess I can not keep all programming difficulties in mind.

2) When I have an active window restored some where on my screen I don't
understand why I have to trace my mouse all the way up to the top to
control my app. Why can't I have my WMO in the window itself just like the
WCB. I think top panel should have the WMO, and WCB  of above most
maximized window. We don't have to take up the annoying things of Mac.


What solution do you propose for the 1) and what do you think of the 2).

Sunil

On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 13:18, frederik.nn...@gmail.com <
frederik.nn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 10:17, Matt Richardson <
> m.richardson.1...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>  I love this idea so I did some mockups:
>>
>> Desktop 
>> Dash 
>> Window Theme 
>> Indicator Menu 
>>
>> I recommend downloading the attachments and viewing them fullscreen to
>> get a real idea.
>>
>
> Your mockups are really good work, perhaps you want to include them into
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/MeMenu%20Mockups
>
> on the point of opacity i still see the problem as less one of taste and
> more one of interaction.. a transparent menu allows you to maintain your
> awareness of things happening on your desktop, even while the menu is open
> above content. An opaque menu doesn't allow that, it thereby steals your
> visual focus for the moment of interaction, and the price of having a
> "better background" is much higher than the value or duration of the
> interaction: focus is lost.
>
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>


-- 
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"Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice
it."

" 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love
can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
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Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues

[Sunil Singh Rana]

I think dash should open in a separate dedicated window. I don't see the
reason, when dash is called, why the top panel and the left launcher have
to have the visual effect as it has now.
I absolutely agree with your email. Launcher keep getting in the way even
when it is not needed.
To develop any consistent system one need to have, non contradicting,
independent set of foundations. What I mean here, that first think
canonical need to do is to make the foundations clear that it wants to
built the unity on.
If unity has to have launcher on the left then there should be well thought
reasons for it. Because foundations has to be laid down very carefully as
they are not often changeable.

So, If there are enough reason to set that the launcher has to be on left a
founding brick, we can proceed to think about a way to avoid it revelation
unnecessarily.
If we need to make Ubuntu popular, we need to pay attention to every tiny
detail. Compromising and coming up crazy solutions of the problems is not
going to help. We need to cross check our set foundations again and again.
A consistent set of foundations is necessary for having a consistent system.

For example, for mathematics to stand up as such a consistent system
required a axiomatic set up as its foundations.

I tried to think of ways to get rid of the problems that we face in unity
but it becomes difficult for me as It is not clear to me, what the
foundations are.


On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 15:55, nick rundy  wrote:

>  Regarding the Launcher getting out of the way:
>
> I have resorted to completely turning off edge-reveal, which means I can't
> access the Launcher with mouse alone.
>
> I changed the F1 key to show the Launcher when pressed (default is Ctrl+F1
> if memory serves me). So if I want to use the Launcher I HAVE to either
> press F1 or Super in order to reveal it. I just got sick of the Launcher
> always revealing when I didn't want it to. I found that I often
> (unconsciously) place my cursor along the left edge of the screen to get it
> out of the way when reading stuff on the screen.
>
>
>
> --
> > From: gespert...@gmail.com
> > Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 19:54:09 -0300
> > To: isan...@gmail.com
> > CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> > Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues
> >
> > Last week I conducted a workshop on libre graphics tools in an
> > important meeting here in Argentina. The attendees were people who
> > don't use graphics programs regularly (and most of them don't use
> > gnu/linux at all).
> > We had Ubuntu 11.10 with Unity in the classroom's computers.
> > Unity proved to be a negative experience for most of them. The ugliest
> > experience was for people with 17" CRT monitors (some computers had
> > them), where the global menu wasn't wide enough to display the menus.
> > Launcher popping up everytime they wanted to use the main toolbox
> > (GIMP and Inkscape) was another important issue.
> > They also experienced problems with focus of applications. Sometimes
> > GIMP lost focus and using the menu or switching apps with launcher
> > required to make an extra click on GIMP's window.
> >
> > They were regular people using applications that are available in
> > Ubuntu's software centre. They weren't a "minority" who needs to be
> > productive with graphic design (as I do).
> > Every single person trying to adjust a birthday photo with GIMP or
> > trying to create a christmas card for their relatives with Inkscape
> > will bump with these issues.
> > What's the next excuse? That GIMP and Inkscape are "broken" for Unity
> > and their developers should work something that wasn't an issue until
> > Unity?
> >
> > Sorry if this seems like I'm trolling, but It's pretty frustrating to
> > get always the same reply when somebody points out a real issue:
> > "unity works for the majority. If you can't use it, then you're part
> > of a minority that should use anything else".
> >
> > ___
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> > Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
> ___ Mailing list:
> https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : 
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>


-- 
सुनील राणा

"Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice
it."

" 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love
can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
___
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Post to

Re: [Ayatana] Unity Lens Mockup.

[Sunil Singh Rana]

I would prefer a mix of number 2 and 3.
The position should be as it is in the number 2 but I would prefer if they
don't show inside the search bar. The way lenses are highlighted, showing
it in search bar, is not consistent with rest of unity design. The icons
and the way of highlighting is more consistent in the third one. But the
position is best in the third one.

Also friends, I have a question. Why does the dash has to show itself
connected to the top panel and the left panel. Why does both of those panel
has to look different when dash is active. I would say it would be better
if we partially free dash window from both of them. We can have left panel
shown and prevent auto hide when dash is active. Having it free from from
both these panel will enable us, if desired, to let our panel move to to
bottom and make the design more symmetric and consistent.

What do you guys think.
On Sat, Nov mber12, 2011 at 07:49, staticd  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:35 PM, Omar B.  wrote:
>
>>
>> yup, unless they think it should be intentional and a good reason for
>> it...
>>
>> i usually dont like my text deleted unless i clear it.
>>
>> 
>> > From: frederik.nn...@gmail.com
>> > Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:57:45 +0100
>> > Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Unity Lens Mockup.
>> > To: estela...@hotmail.com
>> > CC: hairymonkey.e...@gmail.com; ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
>> >
>> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/889098
>> > there you go ;)
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 13:52,
>> > frederik.nn...@gmail.com
>> > mailto:frederik.nn...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 13:48, Omar B.
>> > mailto:estela...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> >  > one thing that troubles me about lenses at the moment, is that the
>> >  > entered text doesn't travel along when i move between lenses. The
>> >  > optimum would be, if there were no lenses at all and the computer
>> could
>> >  > read my mind from the text i input.
>> >  > Somehow, Synapse (GnomeDO on steroids) got that one right. But enough
>> >  > of that.. beautiful mockups, especially #2, good lookin!
>> >
>> > the developers can't read your mind either :p
>> >
>> > why not open a bug ?
>> >
>> > so you agree, the already entered text should travel along when tabbing
>> > through lenses?
>> >
>>
>> ___
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>> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
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>>
>
> Should I open a bug to move the lensbar to the top?
>
>
>
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>


-- 
सुनील राणा

"Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice
it."

" 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love
can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
___
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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

[Sunil Singh Rana]

I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain
consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much
philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top
panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when
dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of
the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous
in-focus application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop
from the dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more
symmetric.

Sunil

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya
wrote:

> On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:
>
>> I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it
>> working:
>> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/**11/install-ubuntu-unity-**
>> bottom-launcher.html
>>
>> Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to
>> activate option
>>
>
> On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some customisation
> to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock. A good
> thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want -
> left/right or bottom.
>
> swapnil
>
>
> __**_
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> More help   : 
> https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelp
>



-- 
सुनील राणा

"Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice
it."

" 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love
can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
___
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

[Sunil Singh Rana]

Hello Friends,
I hope all of you are having fun. :)

Saving the vertical space could be a founding block, but a foundation
should be consistent with all the foundations. we can't ignore the fact
that most application uses the space close to left edge for navigation
within itself; for example: back button of a browser. It is normal that
launcher on the left will keep appearing as an uninvited guest and shall
keep annoying. I wonder how many user actually notices the more vertical
space available to them but I am sure many of them get annoyed with this
unnecessary revelation of the launcher. Secondly, the top left corner
becomes a problem to give a consistent design.

It is difficult to take a completely new approach, take it as an axiom and,
at the same time, fit it to the traditional approaches which are built on
completely different set of axiom.

I think -- I might be wrong -- most application assumes that the launcher
would be at the bottom and this leaves the bottom side free from any button.

We really need to focus on consistency and universality of the experience.
I think these things has added plenty to the success of mac.

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 19:54, Chad M/ Germann  wrote:

> On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:31 +0100, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:
> > On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:
> > > I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it
> working:
> > >
> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html
> >
> > That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save
> > vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite, leaving
> > even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12 may
> > be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch easily.
>
> that may be the case but it eliminates the strict "It mist be this way"
> fascism that unity currently represents.
>
>
>
> ___
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>



-- 
सुनील राणा

"Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice
it."

" 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love
can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
___
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

[Sunil Singh Rana]

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 18:05, Ian Santopietro  wrote:

> I mean that the panel is now disconnected from the rest of Unity. With the
> panel at the bottom, there's no reason for the panel to turn transparent.
> There's no reason for the Dash's window controls to be in the panel. Having
> the launcher on the left side is important, because without that, several
> other points in unity simply don't make any sense.
>

Hi,
   May I please request to make those several other points of
Unity more clear.
Please forgive my ignorance.

I agree that there in no reason for the window controls to be in the panel.
I personally think there is no reason for any window that is not maximized
to have controls and menus on the top panel. It makes unnecessary mouse
travels; though I can understand it might me useful for small form factors.

I also never understood the philosophy behind making panels transparent
when dash is called -- please forgive my ignorance once again.

So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows
controls consistent with any part of unity.

Personally I don't know much of advantages of having panel in left apart
from having more vertical space. But I see the challenges it presents to
make a consistent design.


On Nov 30, 2011 8:16 AM, "Omar B."  wrote:
>
>>  what do you mean "it doesnt work"?
>>
>> you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it.
>>
>> here are more screens:
>>
>> http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0
>>
>>
>> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html
>>
>> but its still in dev of course.
>>
>>
>> > From: isan...@gmail.com
>> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700
>> > To: sunil.r...@gmail.com
>> > CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
>> > Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
>> >
>> > What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What
>> > about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the
>> > left, I don't see how this design works.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana 
>> wrote:
>> > > I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain
>> > > consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really
>> see much
>> > > philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why
>> the top
>> > > panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect
>> when
>> > > dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the
>> center of
>> > > the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous
>> in-focus
>> > > application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from
>> the
>> > > dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more
>> symmetric.
>> > >
>> > > Sunil
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya <
>> swapnil.bhart...@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it
>> > >>> working:
>> > >>>
>> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to
>> > >>> activate option
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some
>> customisation
>> > >> to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock.
>> A good
>> > >> thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want -
>> left/right
>> > >> or bottom.
>> > >>
>> > >> swapnil
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> ___
>> > >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> > >> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
>> > >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> > >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > सुनील राणा
>> > >
>> > > "Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the pati

Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

[Sunil Singh Rana]

Sorry I think I didn't make myself clear enough.
About the circular button I meat the circular shape of the buttons. I think
their design being circular is not consistent with the rest of the design
of the unity. Which has more squarish throughout.

I agree with the global menu bar for maximized window is a great idea; but
the point I raised was for non-maximized windows. Its nice to have the
windows control available on the ( un-maximized) window it self; but for
the windows menu one still have to traverse the mouse pointer to the top
bar.
I think it would be better to have windows menu also on the (un-maximized)
window itself.

I got the idea of the design.


On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 23:18, Ian Santopietro  wrote:

> > So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows>
> controls consistent with any part of unity.
>
> They're used to control the dash. You can't make the Dash full screen
> without them.
>
> They integrate the window controls into the panel for maximized
> windows because they integrate the menu bar and title bar into the top
> panel. Doing this saves nearly 50 pixels of vertical screen real
> estate, which is nice on large monitors, and huge on smaller screens
> like netbooks. Giving the Dash window controls simply makes it more
> consistent with the rest of Unity.
>
> Transparent panels blend in with the dash, and make it feel more like
> an extension of the panel and launcher, which it is. With the dash
> open and full screen, it feels like a single sheet draped over the
> screen since everything blends together seamlessly. Visually, it's
> very pleasing.
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 13:44, Sunil Singh Rana 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 18:05, Ian Santopietro 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I mean that the panel is now disconnected from the rest of Unity. With
> the
> >> panel at the bottom, there's no reason for the panel to turn
> transparent.
> >> There's no reason for the Dash's window controls to be in the panel.
> Having
> >> the launcher on the left side is important, because without that,
> several
> >> other points in unity simply don't make any sense.
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >May I please request to make those several other points of
> > Unity more clear.
> > Please forgive my ignorance.
> >
> > I agree that there in no reason for the window controls to be in the
> panel.
> > I personally think there is no reason for any window that is not
> maximized
> > to have controls and menus on the top panel. It makes unnecessary mouse
> > travels; though I can understand it might me useful for small form
> factors.
> >
> > I also never understood the philosophy behind making panels transparent
> when
> > dash is called -- please forgive my ignorance once again.
> >
> > So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows
> > controls consistent with any part of unity.
> >
> > Personally I don't know much of advantages of having panel in left apart
> > from having more vertical space. But I see the challenges it presents to
> > make a consistent design.
> >
> >
> >> On Nov 30, 2011 8:16 AM, "Omar B."  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> what do you mean "it doesnt work"?
> >>>
> >>> you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it.
> >>>
> >>> here are more screens:
> >>>
> >>> http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html
> >>>
> >>> but its still in dev of course.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > From: isan...@gmail.com
> >>> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700
> >>> > To: sunil.r...@gmail.com
> >>> > CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> >>> > Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
> >>> >
> >>> > What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What
> >>> > about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the
> >>> > left, I don't see how this design works.
> >>> >
> >>> > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana <
> sunil.r...@gmail.com>
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> > > I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain
> >>> > > consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really
> >>> > > see

Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

[Sunil Singh Rana]

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 05:18, Ian Santopietro  wrote:

> Many Apps also use the bottom and right edges too. Totem, for example.
>

Agree. Specially the right side is always used by scroll bar of the
application. Totems still have one bar, which mention time, in between. But
the back arrow of the browser, one of the most use apps, is too close to
the left bar. Quite some web-interfaces, Gmail for example,  also have a
lot of links very close to left edge.
I hope I made it clear. Left side panel will remain annoying unless we come
up with a well thought out mouse gesture to call the panel.





> On Nov 29, 2011 6:02 PM, "Sunil Singh Rana"  wrote:
>
>> Hello Friends,
>> I hope all of you are having fun. :)
>>
>> Saving the vertical space could be a founding block, but a foundation
>> should be consistent with all the foundations. we can't ignore the fact
>> that most application uses the space close to left edge for navigation
>> within itself; for example: back button of a browser. It is normal that
>> launcher on the left will keep appearing as an uninvited guest and shall
>> keep annoying. I wonder how many user actually notices the more vertical
>> space available to them but I am sure many of them get annoyed with this
>> unnecessary revelation of the launcher. Secondly, the top left corner
>> becomes a problem to give a consistent design.
>>
>> It is difficult to take a completely new approach, take it as an axiom
>> and, at the same time, fit it to the traditional approaches which are built
>> on completely different set of axiom.
>>
>>  I think -- I might be wrong -- most application assumes that the
>> launcher would be at the bottom and this leaves the bottom side free from
>> any button.
>>
>> We really need to focus on consistency and universality of the
>> experience. I think these things has added plenty to the success of mac.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 19:54, Chad M/ Germann wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:31 +0100, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:
>>> > On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:
>>> > > I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it
>>> working:
>>> > >
>>> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html
>>> >
>>> > That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save
>>> > vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite,
>>> leaving
>>> > even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12 may
>>> > be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch easily.
>>>
>>> that may be the case but it eliminates the strict "It mist be this way"
>>> fascism that unity currently represents.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>>> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> सुनील राणा
>>
>> "Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to
>> practice it."
>>
>> " 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you'
>> love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
>>
>> ___
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" 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love
can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

[Sunil Singh Rana]

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 15:21, Gino Vincenzini wrote:

> I understand what people are saying but I agree that it makes little sense
> to try desperately to preserve the vertical space by sticking the launcher
> on the left side in an app ecosystem designed for the launcher or dock to
> be at the bottom.
>
Very well said. Thanks for putting it so clearly.


> If that be the case then the reasons that integrate the menu bar with the
> launcher are no longer relevant, because why the launcher should be on the
> side in the first place is a fundamental idea. Honestly I think the best
> way to handle that is to default to the bottom, allow some cool integration
> when on the left side and let the user pick in the settings. But that's
> just my opinion.
> On Dec 1, 2011 4:11 AM, "Sunil Singh Rana"  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 05:18, Ian Santopietro  wrote:
>>
>>> Many Apps also use the bottom and right edges too. Totem, for example.
>>>
>>
>> Agree. Specially the right side is always used by scroll bar of the
>> application. Totems still have one bar, which mention time, in between. But
>> the back arrow of the browser, one of the most use apps, is too close to
>> the left bar. Quite some web-interfaces, Gmail for example,  also have a
>> lot of links very close to left edge.
>> I hope I made it clear. Left side panel will remain annoying unless we
>> come up with a well thought out mouse gesture to call the panel.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>  On Nov 29, 2011 6:02 PM, "Sunil Singh Rana" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Friends,
>>>> I hope all of you are having fun. :)
>>>>
>>>> Saving the vertical space could be a founding block, but a foundation
>>>> should be consistent with all the foundations. we can't ignore the fact
>>>> that most application uses the space close to left edge for navigation
>>>> within itself; for example: back button of a browser. It is normal that
>>>> launcher on the left will keep appearing as an uninvited guest and shall
>>>> keep annoying. I wonder how many user actually notices the more vertical
>>>> space available to them but I am sure many of them get annoyed with this
>>>> unnecessary revelation of the launcher. Secondly, the top left corner
>>>> becomes a problem to give a consistent design.
>>>>
>>>> It is difficult to take a completely new approach, take it as an axiom
>>>> and, at the same time, fit it to the traditional approaches which are built
>>>> on completely different set of axiom.
>>>>
>>>>  I think -- I might be wrong -- most application assumes that the
>>>> launcher would be at the bottom and this leaves the bottom side free from
>>>> any button.
>>>>
>>>> We really need to focus on consistency and universality of the
>>>> experience. I think these things has added plenty to the success of mac.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 19:54, Chad M/ Germann wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:31 +0100, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:
>>>>> > On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:
>>>>> > > I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got
>>>>> it working:
>>>>> > >
>>>>> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html
>>>>> >
>>>>> > That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save
>>>>> > vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite,
>>>>> leaving
>>>>> > even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12
>>>>> may
>>>>> > be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch
>>>>> easily.
>>>>>
>>>>> that may be the case but it eliminates the strict "It mist be this way"
>>>>> fascism that unity currently represents.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> सुनील राणा
>>&g

Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

[Sunil Singh Rana]

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 16:17, Georgi Karavasilev wrote:

> Hmm, there are two major cons with bottom launcher:
> A) The dash control buttons are on the top left (maximaze and close), what
> happens when the Ubuntu buttom is at the bottom left and those buttons on
> the top left?
>
Just like it happen with other applications. when not maximized it remains
on the dash itself and when maximized it goes to the top left corner.

> B) Due to the fact that launcher is set to "Dodge windows" out of the box
> users may invoke the launcher instead of the bottom scrollbar by accident
> (when the launcher is no set to "Always visible")
>
I personally rarely use the bottom, that is horizontal, scroll bar and most
applications, again according to my personal experience, doesn't use bottom
area for the clickable buttons that are to be clicked too often.

I had always had global menu on the top panel and the cairo dock at the
bottom set to dodge the windows. I don't remember myself getting annoyed
for dock showing unnecessarily as an uninvited guest. I guess, I didn't had
to bring my pointer too close to the bottom edge as I have to bring it to
the left edge.

If I am sounding too illogical please forgive my ignorance.

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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

[Sunil Singh Rana]

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 22:07, Georgi Karavasilev wrote:

> Hmm, you kinda missed my point at A) - if the launcher is at the bottom
> the Dash button will go the the bottom left. When on clicks on the Dash the
> control buttons will be on the panel in the top left which requires mouse
> movement to change Dash size or close it (assuming if you cick the close
> button to close it) and will look kinda broken.

I definitely had missed that point. Thanks a ton for clarifying. I have to
get to the drawing sheet and see what possible change could me given to the
design so that, as I mentioned earlier, so that the consistency, including
mouse traveling and other things, is invariant under the rotation of unity.

> As far as B goes - it's true the horizontal scroll bars are not used THAT
> much, but it I believe generally causes less distraction on the left
>
I agree that it causes less distraction on the left but it, in the current
form, increase the odds of hitting and calling it unnecessarily
exponentially because  of the reasons known to all of us.

> And there is C) when the dash button is at bottom left how will be the
> Dash outline position, so both the panel and the Dash have outline. The
> current Unity-rotated applies outline only and the Dash and not to the
> panel and it's doesn't look good :P
>
I agree that is doesn't look good and that is why I think the design of
unity might need a bit of tweaking so that also the beauty of the dash, or
unity in general, remain invariant under the rotation of the left panel.

One thing we could do is, visually free the dash-- the dash, I don't say
the dash button, from the top bar and also from the left panel, make it
more like an independent visually sleek window which  could be outlined,
bordered in the same way as it is now.
:)






-- 
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"Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice
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" 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love
can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
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Re: [Ayatana] Global nenu allways visible option

[Sunil Singh Rana]

I definitely would like that option. I just don't what could go wrong if we
allow user to let him set his menu always visible.


On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 21:31, Chad Germann  wrote:

> Unity is starting to look nice however this vanishing UI element issue is
> annoying
>
> Why is it so much of a fight to get the devs to add a Menu is always
> visible option seriously what is the harm?
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" 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love
can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
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