Re: [Ayatana] Indicators for showing progress

[Frederik Nnaji]

hi there ;)
I'm fairly new to this list, please don't cook me alive ;)

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 13:47, Luke Benstead  wrote:

> On a slightly related note, check out Solution #5 from this brainstorm
> idea: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/24130/
>
> yeah, this solution is nice and part of a scalable concept.

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 12:18, Roth Robert  wrote:

> In my opinion for cases like this, we should have the possibility to show
> the progress of an operation in an indicator applet menuitem.
>

in my understanding, each symbolic instance of a process or person will try
to communicate or indicate its parent's "realtime" state and mood..
this would mean that active processes communicate their current state and
progress everywhere they are represented, not only in one dedicated area of
the screen as is the indicator applet.

dbus might perhaps be able to provide a system wide namespace for such a
"broadcast of state".
wherever a process or person now decides to textually or visually represent
its/her state or progress, it/she can now forward that sort of data for
realtime progress indication through this proposed channel.

brasero in Gnome e.g., while burning data to a dvd, would behave like this:

*brasero's button in Window List indicates its progress, subtly acting as a
progress bar
*[gnome3.0] your "Activities Indicator Menu" would show brasero's icon e.g.
in animated flames & a progress indication method overlayed or next to it
*nautilus, as it shows the dvd drive in "Computer", provides a form of
progress indication overlayed with or next to the dvd drive

to add yet another drop-down menu to the indicator applet would be a
solution of transitional nature, imho. a scalable solution is to adapt a
consistent indication behaviour throughout the desktop.
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Re: [Ayatana] Middle-click on indicators

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 14:00, Chow Loong Jin  wrote:

> Then how about middle click activating a "default action" of an indicator?
>
[...]
>
I think this would lead to the same kind of standardization that the
> application
> indicators is supposed to bring, without cutting back too much on
> functionality -- a good compromise.
>
> middle click is desktop-specific.
a netbook, (sub-)notebook, tablet or touchscreen device would not support
that action without an additional modifyer.

using the middle button would also be inconsistent with Gnome's current
guidelines, see:
http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/input-mouse.html.en#mouse-buttons
according to the above guidelines, usage of the middle button would in this
particular case be addressed to the advanced user only, thereby resulting in
being a "hidden treasure".

but there's a discussion going on about how normative these guidelines
actually want to be..
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Re: [Ayatana] Middle-click on indicators

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 16:14, Chow Loong Jin  wrote:

Really? I thought all Ubuntu installations had 3-button emulation enabled
> (left+right click = middle click) by default, which I had mentioned in my
> previous post (the one between this one and the quoted one).
>

and here's the "modifier". sorry: my attempt at parlance resulted in
misleading formulation..
3-button emulation is cool, i personally found it confusing tho, that was
when i curiously tried it out a few years ago.

We want a *shortcut* to default actions in the indicator for *advanced*
> users.
>

ok, addressing mainly power users, the idea looks very attractive indeed ;)
as we now agree, my concerns were based on the wrong assumption that we were
trying to find an "efficient" mostly intuitive solution for all users.

advanced users of course, so i agree, might benefit greatly of the usage of
3-button mouse emulation here..
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Re: [Ayatana] Indicators for showing progress

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 18:01, Remco  wrote:

> I think the general idea is to eventually get rid of the window list
> (replacing it with GNOME
> Shell's exposé-like functionality), and extend/standardize the tray to
> start programs, indicate running programs, show progress,
> notifications, and obviously provide custom menus.
>
> yeah, looks like a great step and a nice vision from my user point of
view..

GNOME Shell will advocate the usage of Zeitgeist AFAIK, a thought i enjoy
very much.
Zeitgeist, which roughly translates to "awareness of time", will help make
the UI more dynamic, interaction will become faster, less obtrusive.

thx, Remco, for putting the two worlds into contrast like that. you provided
a very good overview for me, if that matters ;)
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Re: [Ayatana] Ubuntu Light system sounds

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 19:15, S. Christian Collins <
s_chriscoll...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>  Hi Everyone,
>
> Someone on the ubuntuforums.org Lucid sound theme 
> threadrecommended 
> that I send my sound theme to you.  Here is the download link:
> http://www.mediafire.com/?y2hhlfhhlmm
>
Hi Chris
i'm loving the sounds "device-connect-3" and "device-disconnect-3"
can you recommend an easy way of assigning these sounds for their respective
events?

System>Preferences>Sound doesn't yield anything helpful to me in current
lucid
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Re: [Ayatana] Ubuntu Light system sounds

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 21:50, Dylan McCall  wrote:

>
> I'm not sure if there are any tutorials on the topic, but the
> specification should have the information you need to get started
> turning an assortment of files into a working sound theme:
> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/sound-theme-spec
>
> Check out the Freedesktop sound theme (in the repos, and linked to
> from the sound theme spec's wiki page) for a complete sound theme,
> with the appropriate index.theme file :)
> Keep in mind the version of the theme outside Ubuntu's repos may be a
> bit newer; its rhythm of updates is in tune with Fedora.
>
> thx dylan, your advice was very helpful!
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Re: [Ayatana] User feedback from the new WM control order

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 13:37, Vishnoo  wrote:

> What could probably be a solution is adding pointer friction to the top
> edge of the menubar , so that it is less easy to over-shoot the menubar
> and could probably prevent accidentally hitting the window controls.
>

hey i love this idea!
perhaps also add some sort of hint to make ALT-F1 discoverable
after all, we don't use the superkey to open the most frequently used menu (
Applications )
perhaps a tooltip?

A Tooltip on the top right for opening the Applications menu via [ALT+F1]
would also give the users a simple way of avoiding misplaced clicks up
there, keyboard provided, so the new position of the window buttons up there
will not cause trouble as long as i'm using a keyboard anyway..
..but then again, like Chow Loong Jin stated somewhere in the "Middle Click"
thread, tooltips are a whole other topic; together with "hints to keyboard
shortcuts" in menus and overall consistency in the three areas.

On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 19:27, Jan-Christoph Borchardt wrote:
>
Yes, it is only the one top left pixel. But that makes it no better;
> Fitts’s Law works as well in reverse.


Jan, i thought you'd never come onto this thread ;)
yeah thanks for the "Zaunpfahl", i just learnt a great deal from your mail!
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Re: [Ayatana] Indicators for showing progress

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 22:27, Nicholas Ipsen(Sephiroth_VII) <
sephiroth7...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Including Brasero's progress would make it too broad, we need to keep
> it oriented towards purely file transfers, and though some might argue
> that writing to a cd is also a file transfer, I don't think most
> people look at it that way.
>
i disagree! i always want to know how much percent are done etc.
to have a manager that would show me that would be great.
this applies to video rendering, audiofile-import, audio rendering, image,
video and audio conversion, practially everything that takes time to finish.

downloads may be seperated or aggregated in a single list item in such a
listing, but i wouldn't omit the other processes because of the special
nature of filetransfers and downloads related to how a desktop user thinks.

but then again, Zeitgeist & Activity Journal will kick off a brandnew talk
about all that, once we all start using or testing them

>
> Also, the way Brasero currently handles this is awesome.
>
> i agree, brasero is a dream-come-true from my user POV
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Re: [Ayatana] Middle-click on indicators

[Frederik Nnaji]

i tried out some ideas on my netbook, mouse connected.

On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 09:56, Chow Loong Jin  wrote:

> We were proposing that one action be specified by the application to
> libappindicator to be the default. Then indicator-application (the applet)
> decides how to activate this default action, which we proposed to be
> middle-click.
>

while touchpad devices and touchscreen interfaces won't benefit easily of
this, the typical desktop setup involving a mouse would profit generously,
turning middle click into a veritable luxury in linux.

> We *will* have some hidden treasures, like the scrollwheel-on-volume.
>
> But they will be few and far between, and they will be on systemic
> > indicators rather than app indicators, for the moment.
>

makes great sense.
and since middle click is not a hidden treasure, if consistently applied to
all the monochrome icons on the right hand side of our top-panel, i tried
dumb middle-clicking the icons with my pointer..
try this at home! :D

it felt like..
*volume indicator should "mute all" !
*messaging indicator should open "Contact List"
*NM applet could display "Connection Information"

i find the middle click idea quite luxurious and comfortable for a desktop
user, not too hard to discover either.
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Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: CHI Day 4 continued

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 00:22, Jim Rorie  wrote:

> > Communication and language are at the centre of this topic, not music.
>
> I agree, but let's not lose sight of the Feng shui aspect of the
> desktop.


hahaah ;) i get carried away by spiritual concepts too easily :D

 Music is communication. It taps into very old parts of the
> brain.
>
> definitely so! music is a very cordial and universal language, i couldn't
agree more.

my point: music is in most cases a question of taste.
sythesis of our points: make it themeable.
music lovers can use more musical themes, Mozart fans get the classical
theme, Manowar lovers their's, minimalists and purists get the R2D2 pack..


> > IMHO we should recommend using human voice frequencies as a modeling
> > guide for future sound-themes. Best example remains plain old
> > telephone (300Hz - 3,400Hz).
> > Absolutely small footprint, easy to compress, we hear better within
> > this range and just about any large or miniature speaker is capable of
> > producing sound within this band, even tiny mobile devices.
>
> I think this maps to the timber argument that Connor was referring to
> earlier.  I'd argue for a wider bandwidth for a richer experience.  But
> emphasis could be placed on these frequencies.
>

yes definitely. 20ieth century landline sound from my home cinema speakers
would be a total waste!
for clarity in the communication, emphasis (and not band-restricion) would
be the right approach. we both want the same vibes here.
perhaps the footprint advantage would only apply to some sounds in the realm
described

>
> >
> > I think Ubuntu Ayatana is a good place to discuss the creation of
> > computer speech.
>
> I think a good starting point would be to map modes of operation of the
> desktop.  Just a few off the top of my head and without particular
> importance I can think of: (Just brainstorming here)
>
> Sudo privileges active
> Different desktops (1-4)
> Battery state
> System Load
>
> impressive! this kind of thinking gives real relevance to the whole topic.


> Since stereo is pretty much standard, sound could be routed to different
> channels depending on which side of the screen action occurs on.  Or
> perhaps which monitor you are on.  It would help in tracking down those
> pesky windows that run in the background that occasionally the eye
> misses.
>

yes, yes and yes.
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Re: [Ayatana] monochrome applets vs user experience

[Frederik Nnaji]

thanks for your feedback, Conscious!

On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 11:29, Conscious User  wrote:

>
> The problem is, once the person knows and accepts the fact that the
> bluetooth is on and discoverable, color becomes a nuisance and a
> distraction. The power consumption and discoverability problems
> exist, but I don't think they make the "bluetooth on" case the
> "attention worthy" one. Specially for bluetooth mouse users like me.
>

this i agree with in case of bluetooth mouse usage.
perhaps the choice of permanent usage is a special case that deserves a
permanently dismissable dialog upon its first invocation / per hardware ID,
such as

"you connected a bluetooth mouse." [ ] don't show this message again.


> In my opinion, the importance of having a second wifi adapter is the
> same of having an ethernet in addition the wifi adapter. It is a
> fact I am rarely interested in enough to have it showing in the
> panel all the time. Much more important is the general fact if
> whether I'm connected, doesn't matter to what, or not. If "I haz
> the internetz" or not.
>

for the sake of completeness, i had to bring that one in.
as you stated already it's not crucial or disturbing in any deep way, so we
can safely forget about it for now.


Message indicator:


> I agree. Although the metaphor itself is fine (opened envelope for
> messages read, closed envelope for messages unread), the color
> change was good enough. And the opened icon is too large compared
> to the others.
>

yes, i was referring to icon size primarily.
would be interesting of course to see blue in variation, but green is fine
to me for now.


> > volume indicator:
> > as Luke already envisioned in the thread linked above, red could be
> > used to signal an active recording process. i use voice memos a lot,
> > once i accidentally left it running for quite a long time, no
> > indication of that in the tray. that's a great idea luke presented,
> > which should receive attention now that everybody is concerned with
> > indicators..
>
> That would be nice. However, again I should raise the "don't make
> it annoying" alert here. There's a difference between "recording"
> and "using the microphone".
>

ok, so "audio capture" is the wrong thing to indicate, instead rather
"recording".
similar indication deserves to be placed somewhere for cam activity. in this
case, capture would be justified as point of indication, this could be
configurable or a panel plug-in.


Frankly, I agree. Those usefulness of those additions is minimal
> and not only they break consistency but they are a step in trying
> to make the messaging menu into a jack of all trades, which is
> a scary symptom of "tray icon syndrome" Ayatana is fighting so
> much against.
>

tray icons are there to be highly informative without being "in your face"
all the time.
with all the useful discussion on Ayatana and some other ideas like GNOME
Shell's exposé-like features in the making, we can expect great conceptual
improvement concerning the goal of non-obtrusive communication between the
user and the computer.


> > this is a bit annoying to me, and in the beginning it had me quite
> > confused: it was not even quite clear, what type of message
> > (IM/Broadcast/email) i was going to compose.
>
> This one I disagree with, the separators make that very clear
> to me.
>

power user: sure. standard user: too unintuitive..
if i just look without thinking, the separators make no sense
looking at the "menu" analytically, they make less sense, because the icons
are missing, compared to the other items, and they are not indented or in
any other way different in formatting.


> I'm in favor of removing it completely. The messaging menu
> should be a very polished way of receiving messages only.
>

ok, makes sense


> Disagree. The messages are not supposed to stay there and
> the messaging menu is designed to show a limited number
> of messages per app (which I agree with), so the usefulness
> of this collapsing would be minimal and sounds like doing
> something just for the sake of being able to.
>
>
the triangles are really confusing, they remind too much of expand/collapse
in a filemanager or something.. i'd prefer a different shape, or turning the
respective text item bold-faced.

about using dots like in the MeMenu:

> It would be a wrong consistency, as the dots in the MeMenu
> are semantically a different thing.
>

ya, that was a bit sloppy on my side. even when i would prefer (other) dots
still, since they don't indicate the possibility of expanding some sort of
collapsed list..
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Re: [Ayatana] Middle-click on indicators

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 11:05, Conscious User  wrote:

> > such a list would show me e.g. somebody's online availability, next
> > calendar entry and current mood, before i decide whether to
> > video-call, IM, email or broadcast-message the person.
>
> While I agree it's a cool idea, I have doubts on it being frequent.


aggregating contact information from as many available sources as possible
is very helpful in a multi "service" environment, since our communication is
primarily based on addressing individuals or groups of individuals.

while a horizontal contact list itself alone might not be the best solution,
the idea of harvesting person-related information and history from whichever
app has it on my desktop would be in concurrence with what Zeitgeist already
does for processes, my activities and my favourite files and folderst etc.

i would like to read more discussion on this, but i'm not sure if Ayatana is
the place, since it has more to do with social communication than with
interface communication..
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Re: [Ayatana] Ubuntu Light system sounds

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 07:20, S. Christian Collins <
s_chriscoll...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>  Hi, have any decisions been made on this?  I just want you to know that I
> am willing to provide extra sounds if necessary (and make necessary changes
> to existing sounds as well).
>
> -~Chris
>

hi chris, perhaps the other thread called "Fwd: CHI Day 4 continued" could
be of relevance to you in this matter. it treats ideas sound-themes and
their deeper configuration..
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Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: CHI Day 4 continued

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 13:45, Abhishek Dasgupta  wrote:

> For large screens, the compiz ripple effect would be really effective,
> imagine ripples spreading from the indicator and fading after a few
> pixels.
>
> Abhishek
>
>
yah! perhaps a creativity brainstorm on the topic could reveal previously
unconsidered possibilities!

does anybody in here know: how far is PA API with enabling
audio-sidechaining of "all other" signals through one special signal? i
didn't quite find my way on the pulse audio website, honestly..
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[Ayatana] MeMenu status message

[Frederik Nnaji]

hello everyone ;)

would it be blasphemy to suggest, the text input field in the MeMenu may
serve to enter my away/availability message as one would naturally expect it
to do since it's positioned right above the availability settings with no
further field-description visible..

!?
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Re: [Ayatana] MeMenu status message

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 19:07, David Siegel wrote:

>
>  * Appear as a text field, showing your most recent status + status icon.
>

if this includes also custom IM status and a complementary status icon, i
agree

 * When you click to explicitly focus the text field, the text entry
> expands to show the standard status options, and also displays a
> blinking cursor so you know you can begin typing.
>

very useful, yes!
there also should be a way of clearing custom messages with a max of 2
gestures..
1 click to open our pretty MeMenu, a second click to clear the custom
status, for example.

one could also hide the configuration links on the bottom behind a typical
icon with text label "accounts" beside it and a tooltip to hint "configure
messaging accounts".

 * At this point, you can begin to type "Available" and autocomplete
> it, or you can type a broadcast message.
>

awesome thinking altogether!!!
thanks a lot for the feedback
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Re: [Ayatana] GSoC '10 Idea : NotifyOSD improvements

[Frederik Nnaji]

On 04/20/2010 10:42 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:

A few design features that I have in mind (possibly conflicting from
the specs in the wiki) :

1.) Stacking, that'd make the bubbles dock downwards as they are
initiated and start to stack up as the bubble times finish away.
 

The idea is that a bubble should stay on screen long enough for you to
read it. If two or more bubbles were on screen at once, you'd have only
half the time to read each. We could compensate for that by making them
both stick around twice as long -- but that would mean the more bubbles
arrived at once, the more annoying each of them would be.
   


as in the thread on sound-themes, here's still the option of making 
duration and color dynamic:
i.e. a (complex) function of mode, type, urgency and progress of the 
phenomenon i'm being notified about.


on another note:
what's most disturbing to anybody i discussed our bubbles with, is the 
absence of a simple way to suppress or dismiss them. what's with that? i 
don't necessarily need a configuration utility or a seperate section 
within the appearance settings.. an ON/OFF button would suffice for my 
desktop usage..


let me also point out, that interaction with bubbles is so often 
mentioned, because the users have no other way of entering the 
conversation they are being alarmed about.
with about 30% - 50% netbook users around me in our monthly meetings, a 
great number of us is faced with the same problems: small displays of 
usually 10" size, trackpad (uncomfortable for the little messaging 
menu), panels on autohide, messaging menu unreachable and out of sight / 
reach, only way to know there's a new message waiting is by the window 
list, that is, if THAT panel is not also already on autohide.


now thanks a lot for informative bubbles, but how will they address 
these issues, if i have no way of using e.g. incoming-chat-message 
notifications interactively?


i was reminded of the importance of seperating information and 
interaction in the design of a UI.
might this thumb-law of UI design deserve more attention in respect to 
our bubbles?


last but not least, i can imagine 3 levels of bubble-annoyance ;) :
*heavy - available, chatty, typing and moving the mouse
longest period reasonable, maximum obtrusiveness, maximum interactivity 
e.g. dismiss on click, open chat bubbles on gesture, high opacity and/or 
alerting bgcolor


*medium - away, extended away, afk etc..
medium display period of bubbles, dismissal on gesture, medium opacity 
and/or less alerting bgcolor


*heavy - busy, N/A, do not disturb
shortest tolerable display period, minimal intrusion, dismiss on heavy 
keyboard/mouse activity, low opacity and/or grey background


is this absolute nonesense, or could one consider it a direction to 
think about?


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Re: [Ayatana] Indicators for showing progress

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:18, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:

> Conscious User wrote on 20/04/10 14:21:
>
> > I think it would be fine enough if the "download indicator" was a menu
> > with one item per download. This item would have a percentage, a label
> > and an icon indicating the source application. Clicking on each item
> > opens such application. A last, "preferences" item, would open a window
> > for things such as reprioritizing.
>

"preferences" would make sense here for switching available options on the
way you *prefer* the proposed new downloader-service to handle its tasks,
including prioritization..

Conscious makes a point with keeping the topic with "Indicators for showing
progress" ;)
an extra window for manual interaction with the proposed new
downloader-service is of course reasonable and practical, leads away from
the original idea of representing such a service in indicator form up in our
beloved panel.


> What would be the usefulness of showing the download portion of these
> tasks in a menu?
>

brief informative overview with the possibility to invoke the interactive
overview you proposed (windowed)

And if package downloads in particular shouldn't be shown in the menu
> (Update Manager is another example of this), what would be the dividing
> line between downloads that should be in the menu and downloads that
> shouldn't?
>

all downloads can be shown.
downloading as a protocol-independent service as proposed would yet regard
packagemanager activities as one single item only.
as you mentioned before, disk-performance is being reduced by every
write-to-disk operation, therefore all such operations should notify the
proposed service, so it can autoprioritize.
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Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 23:04, Shane Fagan  wrote:
>
> Hey mpt,
>
> I think the target is far enough but I wouldnt like to remove it from
> the default install until upstreams adopt the new spec fully. Which will
> take a long enough time. I think remove it cold turkey from the next LTS
> release just to give it fair warning to universe app
> developers/maintainers to patch their apps accordingly.

LTS sounds like an intelligent goal.
if things upstream happen to move along faster due to the evolutive
leaps in overall usability nowadays, earlier dates might become
possible as we go..
pioneering important ideas and implementing them is what Ubuntu is
known for, keep it up!

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Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 22:44, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:

> Do you have suggestions on how we can make the transition smoother?
>

thank you for asking for our opinions ;)

after all u openly admit, conceptual mistakes did happen in the recent
past..
looks like Ubuntu can learn from mistakes. glad to see Ubuntu's confidence
and creative innovation unaffected!

conservative behaviour upstream is important, since that's where the
foundation all our houses stand upon is being maintained. imagine GNOME not
letting us know about 3.0's GNOME Shell until 1 month before release.. that
would be insane.

MPT: after reading your excellent article on the history of 90% of why there
is a panel in nearly every desktop, i agree fully: farewell to the
notification area ;)

all that has been said in this thread so far is reasonable imho.

all *i* would like to add now, is that i'm confident you guys already are
aware of most of these points, and that's what makes the planned changes so
valuable..
keep pioneering the desktop, just keep your community in the loop like you
hereby did!
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[Ayatana] GNOME Shell Activities

[Frederik Nnaji]

this one has been making me scratch my head for a while now:

how do "we" think about GNOME Shell and possibilities arising with the
introduction of its "Activity Journal" usage?
how are indicator menus going to be transferred into this conceptually
radically different DE?

my personal belief is that indicator menus are a more informative and
dynamic type of menu concept that will change menus as we know them
for ever, yet menus as we know them will not last so much longer, once
Zeitgeist hits the desktop.

what's Canonical's stab at all this stuff, the long-term vision i mean?

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Re: [Ayatana] Indicators for showing progress

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 22:26, Conscious User  wrote:

> Huh? It wouldn't be "the download portion of a task", I'm talking about
> tasks that *are* downloads.
>
>
if the goal is to design an informative download indicator menu, i seriously
would want to consider listing *all* download bandwidth relevant processes
the user called himself - including update manager's package downloads..

@Conscious User: we don't have to look at every single package's progress in
% only the average progress of update manager. if that is too much already,
we'll just leave it for the "advanced" window you and MPT spoke about.

and there's a name for the aforementioned proposed service:
Download Manager. simple, telling and consistent, everybody will get it ;)

we could then call Download Manager from its indicator menu, in order to
reprioritize the downloading processes e.g. to watch a movie, or to "finish
downloading that large file to my USB stick before i leave the computer for
an urgent meeting".
this would be especially beneficial to people on slower internet
connections.

about listing the progress of large media file conversion, rendering and
writing-to-disk:
that's something for a souped up system monitor to handle!

we have the apps, everything is there already, no need to re-invent the
wheel all over.
let's just give the whole thing a reasonable scalable character and
direction with perspective.
things will practically develop themselves, as we stand by watching :D
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[Ayatana] Tasque, Giver

[Frederik Nnaji]

good morning list, good night myself..

..just came across Tasque again!
and yes, obviously it appeares worth sharing with the ML:
visit: http://live.gnome.org/Tasque
see: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3324975082418734422

Tasque already supports these backends:
*Evolution Data Server aka EDS
*Remember The Milk (cloud)
*its own local storage
*ICEcore

we should seriously think of using it with Ubuntu One.
i personally would like to see my upcoming to-do's from google also.
my phone already has the best google calendar integration, so that
would be a way to go definitely!

Clock 2.30.0 shows me tasks that i entered in Evolution's task manager.
We should include Tasque for tasks in System > Preferences >
"Preferred Applications"
Then we should honor that in "Clock" for now;
loading the 5-headed beast Evolution takes ~13 sec on my netbook.
Tasque is up in 2 sec.

honestly, same goes for sending files to the person next to me: why
email a task or calendar event, if i can just drop it on my
neighbouring desktop!?
that's why they came up with Giver, which transfers taskques and files
within the "Avahi discoverable" zone around us. Drag and drop.

All that is missing, is to enable this for the jabberers in Contact
List (Empathy), we're good to go!
Share files, tasks and calendar entries within a handful of seconds
via drag&drop ;)

unfortunately, just like xfce's excellent "Notes", Tasque resides in
the Notification Area, but one could tweak that easily i believe.
This sort of opportunity here is what somebody called "low hanging fruit" ;)

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Re: [Ayatana] Indicators for showing progress

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 08:11, Conscious User  wrote:
> I think it makes more sense to restrict the usage of a download
> indicator to specific "I want to save this file here" request.
> This is not the case for an update, the download is simply part
> of the process and later access to the file is not required. In
> fact, I configure Synaptic to delete the file after installation.
>
> If we start putting everything that involves downloading in the
> indicator, where do we draw the line? The update manager starts
> by downloading update versions of the repository index, and I
> am certainly *not* interested in knowing the details of that.
>

that's reasonable from this point of view.
showing other stuff might be interesting in the "advanced" view of the
download and disk-writing overview window mpt suggested then..

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Re: [Ayatana] Tasque, Giver

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 15:12, John Lea  wrote:
> I think a first step towards making Tasque work with Ubuntu One could be
> moving it to using CouchDB for it's own storage.  The best person to talk to
> about this is Stuart Langridge, see https://launchpad.net/~sil
> .
>

exactly, CouchDB is perfect for this!
i'll hail him.

Thanks John, you helped me greatly.

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Re: [Ayatana] Tasque, Giver

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 18:16, John Lea  wrote:
> Hyia, you might want to post this to the ubuntuone-us...@lists.launchpad.net
> mailing list.  I'm not sure if any of the developers working with CouchDB
> subscribe to this list, so you may not get a answer to your question here.

perhaps one of the steps i should take, thanks John.
Hi there, Chow ;)

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 17:29, Chow Loong Jin  wrote:
> Before we start using CouchDB more extensively, how about making erlang
> processes drinking the CPU at a steady 1% of a 2GHz Core 2 Duo, and making the
> whole set of CouchDB things take less memory?

yeah, the social desktop apps need better performance. i see how they
suck up all the memory and CPU on my netbook. the ideas presented are
great, while the efficiency of their implementations will need some
more attention. so i agree on that side.

on the other hand, conceptually overthinking how this "set of CouchDB
things" will work as a suite of independent social desktop apps can
not harm.
it can even be argued, we should stop coding until a proper social
desktop concept is available and specced out properly, so coding can
have an actual direction to follow.

> My findings, from using Gwibber so far: If I kill gwibber and all the erlang 
> and
> couch things, my battery power consumption drops by approximately 2 Watts, 
> from
> ~16W to ~14W, gaining me approximately half an hour worth of battery. Surely a
> microblogging client, and potentially more things using Couch shouldn't take
> this much power? Or actually, just couch running alone is bad enough.

outch!

actually, i don't quite care which app does the job. there's so much
code out there, we might aswell run gecko in a gtk window with a
couple of buttons around it and AJAX for interactivity, as far as
gwibber's current functionality is concerned.

all i want is to take my desktop identity with me, no matter what
machine i desire to move to, by connecting one single service..
contacts managed, video calls enabled, drag and dropping stuff around.

websites in a browser can do it, my phone does it, the Ubuntu desktop
should be able to do it, too.

let's see if with the right help, one can draw up a concept worth our while.

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Re: [Ayatana] Hovering to open items on the top panel

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 18:35, Diego Moya  wrote:
>> It makes the accidental hover over these menus a lot more painful. I'd rather
>> not have this.

i can imagine a proficient hacker would not care about too much of
this, his hands being on the keyboard most of the time.

> Ditto. But I think this still can be made to work. This unwanted
> accidental case can be avoided with careful tuning:
>
> a- put a delay in the "open menu on hover" behavior. This makes the
> error less likely.
> b- if the user didn't click the menu label, hide the menu as soon as
> the mouse leaves the menu boundaries. This make the error less painful
> if unwanted opening happens.
> c- if the user did click the menu label, don't hide the menu by moving
> the mouse away. This prevents b) being hurtful in the case where the
> user does want to interact with the menu.

agree.
this would bring the better of webdesign UI patterns to our oldfashioned menus.
yes!

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Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 22:40, Conscious User  wrote:
>
>> If people don't figure out how to use something we designed, the answer
>> is to improve the design, and not to mount a campaign to educate them :-)
>>
>> By which I mean that the pieces should feel more natural, and getting
>> things done should be more natural, or we're not succeeding.
>
> It is a noble goal and I support it 100%, but let's not forget that,
> as good as the indicators are and as bad as the notification area is,
> the notification area is what people are used to. So a little push
> might be necessary to overcome the natural resistance to change.
>
> Also, there is a limit to how natural something can be. I have
> absolutely no idea how we could make obvious to a first time user
> that the indicator-messages icon is supposed to change when you
> receive a new message, for example.

that's right, certain things might create a difficult learning curve.
we should always keep one eye on the excellent advice found in the
GNOME Human Interface Guidelines, which is a perfect reference for
everything you want to design, even a house or a toaster.

this particular case you are describing will still not be so terribly
bad on the novice:
colors become self-explaining, once you see the bubbles with them.
the indicator menus are also buttons and actual menus, not only notifiers.
the button aspect is naturally apparent already

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[Ayatana] Tagging in Nautilus

[Frederik Nnaji]

how about tagging files and folders in nautilus?
i wouldn't have to move them around much anymore, if i could attach
tags to them.

imagine you don't have to move your files around physically anymore,
you just navigate them via tagging..

on a fs level that would be horrendous i suppose, perhaps somebody
already thought of something of the sort with some type of
meta-filesystem running within a file management service ?

i'm just thinking aloud...

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Re: [Ayatana] Tagging in Nautilus

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 13:58, Diego Moya  wrote:
> On 23 April 2010 06:19, Frederik Nnaji wrote:
>> how about tagging files and folders in nautilus?
>> i wouldn't have to move them around much anymore, if i could attach
>> tags to them.
>>
>> imagine you don't have to move your files around physically anymore,
>> you just navigate them via tagging..
>>
>> on a fs level that would be horrendous i suppose, perhaps somebody
>> already thought of something of the sort with some type of
>> meta-filesystem running within a file management service ?
>>
>
> AFAIK the Tracker [1][2] project already does this. They even have
> some support for Nautilus integration [3]. Tracker is based on Nepomuk
> [4], a project to create a semantic metadata back-end that supports
> all kind of relational information, not just tags.
>
>
> [1] http://projects.gnome.org/tracker/index.html
> [2] http://live.gnome.org/Tracker/WhatIsTracker
> [3] http://www.advogato.org/person/jamiemcc/diary/4.html
> [4] http://nepomuk.semanticdesktop.org/

thanks all!
i'll see if i can get some useful ideas from testing those concepts
already available as packages. smart and easy file management is a
major issue our "leaders" are trying to address now, so i heard.
please keep thoughts and ideas coming, unless of course anybody here
objects to the topic.

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[Ayatana] Integrating Application Search & Install

[Frederik Nnaji]

Is anybody currently working on integrating a FAYT aka FAST text
search button/field featuring the incremental search algorithm used in
the Run Application dialog into the Applications menu already??

right now, Application Search is hidden under Applications > Accessories .
i would like to see it above the 8 categories.

One could also argue, Ubuntu Software Center should be merged with it.

in that FAYT text search button / field one could integrate
application and file search in one.
i think with the right hierarchy and inheritance of topic in an
interactive dialog resulting from a query in that field, one could
already access tagged files, folders and such information.

this would help with integrating Ubuntu's current status with the
backend power and comfort of use GNOME Activity Journal offers.
is there a simple way of modifying some script or .desktop files to
achieve this on my own here?

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Re: [Ayatana] Tagging in Nautilus

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 13:58, Diego Moya  wrote:
>
> AFAIK the Tracker [1][2] project already does this. They even have
> some support for Nautilus integration [3]. Tracker is based on Nepomuk
> [4], a project to create a semantic metadata back-end that supports
> all kind of relational information, not just tags.

yea, NEPOMUK is AI.
so AI is coming to the desktop now... on a wider scale hum?
i'm glad i'm here to see it happen..
thanks for the wink, i'll follow the lead and see where it takes me..

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Re: [Ayatana] Integrating Application Search & Install

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 10:36, David Siegel  wrote:

> But seriously, FAYT ("Find as you type") is a simple and powerful user
> interface idea that we've been slow to adopt, and I would love to
> explore these ideas further and find ways to improve Ubuntu with
> find-as-you-type features.

GNOME Usability are working on a design pattern library that will
eventually evolve through careful consideration of dev/user community
feedback (comments, discussion).
The initial draft (
http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/HIG/ThreeZero ) inspires me to
dream a lot about tagging stuff and incremental search features, as
well as "most frequently used" journal integration wherever possible..
while we don't want to be obtrusive, we can easily be preemptive, as
we honor the most common user behaviour patterns in our desktop
design.

> It would be a great project to improve
> this dialog and merge it with the many different Open With... dialog
> implementations to introduce FAYT to users.

makes me very happy, you think that way!
FAYT is a natural way of augmenting the UI reality for all of us.
Augmented Reality in general is a perfect place for Ayatana to harvest
ideas on usability and smart interface design.
please let me know if you'd like any more mockups or perhaps some
beginner attemts at UML sketching.

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Re: [Ayatana] Integrating Application Search & Install

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 10:36, David Siegel  wrote:

> But seriously, FAYT ("Find as you type") is a simple and powerful user
> interface idea that we've been slow to adopt, and I would love to
> explore these ideas further and find ways to improve Ubuntu with
> find-as-you-type features.

GNOME Usability are working on a design pattern library that will
eventually evolve through careful consideration of dev/user community
feedback (comments, discussion).
The initial draft (
http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/HIG/ThreeZero ) inspired me to
dream a lot about tagging stuff and incremental search features, as
well as "most frequently used" journal integration wherever possible..
while we don't want to be obtrusive, we can easily be preemptive, as
we honor the most common user behaviour patterns in our desktop
design.

> It would be a great project to improve
> this dialog and merge it with the many different Open With... dialog
> implementations to introduce FAYT to users.

makes me very happy, you think that way!
FAYT (alt: FAsT) is a natural way of *augmenting* the already
brilliant UI reality in GNOME for all of us (e.g. firefox search bar,
"Run Application" dialog etc.)

you're right, we should really have more consistence here, so that
users can exploit the best of what FLOSS has to offer nowadays.

please let me know if you'd like any more mockups or perhaps some
beginner attemts at UML sketching in this direction.

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Re: [Ayatana] Integrating Application Search & Install

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 15:01, Shane Fagan  wrote:
> I like the mockup but id remove the catagories and the close after
> execute. Plus id like it it was embedded in the menu like the MeMenu.

yes, yes and yes!!
thanks for your thoughs, Shane, i think the categories should obey
rules for filtering that are currently being set up by Calum Benson
and his team over at GNOME Usability.
perhaps one can just safely hide them for now.

embedding:
the exact same thought came to my mind, especially making it an
indicator-style menu, too.
indicators are menu² in my honest opinion, let's give it consistency
and convert all menus into optionally using that design.

i think it's not only a crime agains design ethics but also simply a
waste of ideas to not "assimilate" the applications, places and system
menus to our new indicator menu style.

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Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

[Frederik Nnaji]

security is nothing for a visual internet designer to be concerned about.
we have a security team taking care of that, did anybody as *them*?
i see the sustainable security solution in the fashion of PGP
protection for example.

how do others implement update notification?
didn't OSX show updates (undynamically) in the session menu?
We could do this dynamically in "incator applet session".
why not put it in there?
if an automatic "apt-get update --critical-only" (sry guys) returns
stuff, an item would be displaced in the system menu, and the power
button would turn into notification color, perhaps blue this time,
since it's not a restart we are alerting about.

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Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 16:25, Frederik Nnaji  wrote:
> security is nothing for a visual internet designer to be concerned about.
oh gods forgive me!
//visual designer//

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Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 16:25, Frederik Nnaji  wrote:
> security is nothing for a visual internet designer to be concerned about.
oh gods, forgive me:

..nothing for a visual UI designer..

sorry!

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Re: [Ayatana] Matching colors to menu options in the indicators (Restart Required)

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 14:59, Mark Shuttleworth  wrote:
> We were supposed to get an icon to highlight that particular entry, but
> the design was never done, and so it didn't get implemented. It will
> happen for 10.10

this raises the question: why is there no art.ubuntu.com? something
perhaps to explore.
it would be a question of minutes until an official Canonical artwork
task to the community would reveal the first dozen of design
suggestions, don't you think?

such a portal would integrate nicely with launchpad, when there are
developers in need of special buttons, symbols, logos, icons or audio
artwork for their applications.

> That would be good. Or "Restart, completing updates" which explains
> *why* it's required.

oh, i prefer the current wording.. perhaps remove the dots!?

> Yes, I think this is a productive line of enquiry, and very much
> consistent with what we want to do with the Ayatana indicators. Fewer
> indicators, with more meaningful icons and semantic states.

yes, make indicators more *dynamic*! give them life, make them smart..
the session indicator needs to start showing me everything that is
session-relevant, including the availability of critical security
updates.

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Re: [Ayatana] Integrating Application Search & Install

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 16:27, Luke Benstead  wrote:
> I like the mockup, but I think something similar to the attached would
> be nicer. I visualize the window only appearing when someone starts
> typing into the box and the results would filter down. When the user
> clears the box (or presses enter to execute the top entry) the window
> would disappear.
>
> Luke.
>
please, stop saying you like the mockup.. it's just a screenshot ;)
your mockup is what i'm talking about, i think step by step we're
getting into business with this idea..

now remove the categories, as suggested above in the thread.
make the dialog, that pops up as you type, smart, i.e:
it learns what types of things the user tends to search for.

instead of the existing categories, offer "photos", "music", "videos"
and "applications", if the user continues the dialog. i think we
should use the word dialog in its literal meaning here, the depth of
detail in which options and filters are displayed should grow with the
depth of steps the user is ready to make (all of them of course
augmented with the principles of incremental search)

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Re: [Ayatana] Integrating Application Search & Install

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 16:27, Luke Benstead  wrote:
> I visualize the window only appearing when someone starts
> typing into the box and the results would filter down. When the user
> clears the box (or presses enter to execute the top entry) the window
> would disappear.

how about offering repository stuff, when the user decides to
specifically look for apps!?
then one could bring in some Ubuntu Software Center code to install
whatever the user found here..

this FAsT (FAYT) search box will search not only apps but also places,
files, eventually people..
we should find it a pretty name, that will guide us in designing it ;)

i suggest "find as you type.." for the moment :D

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Re: [Ayatana] Refining the battery status menu

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 17:36, Marc Deslauriers
 wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-04-23 at 16:17 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
>> On the Canonical Design site, I've just posted about the design of
>> Ubuntu's battery status menu.
>> 
>>

very nice, can't wait to see it, give me a maverick alpha with it and
i'll be more than happy to test it.
i'm convinced, once you guys get more confident with implementing the
libindicator concept all over the top panel, upstream will pick it up
sooner, and we won't have to wait until 11.x

> I like it a lot, excellent work!
>
> If useful names for multiple batteries are not available, would it be
> possible for a user to click on a name and rename it? Or possible for an
> OEM to configure more meaningful names?

the dynamic nature of it makes it really smart! Ubuntu is coming to
life big-time ;)

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Re: [Ayatana] Integrating Application Search & Install

[Frederik Nnaji]

it's okay to laugh, if anybody thinks these use cases are funny :D

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 17:14, David Siegel  wrote:
> Frederik, try listing a small set of use cases describing exactly what
> you're proposing.


1. FINDING APPLICATIONS QUICKLY
Netbookuser47 wants to launch "Zapp" (fictional name) from Applications.

CURRENT METHOD
Netbookuser47 goes through the tedious work of combing "Applications"
for what she wants to launch.. finds "Zapp" in Applications >
Accessories after scrolling a little, since her 10" doesn't show all
items on one screen without scrolling.
Defying all variations of Finn's law, Netbookuser47 manages to aim at
and click the "Zapp" item in the menu, hereby launching the desired
application.

FAYT METHOD
Netbookuser47 presses ALT+F1 [1], is instantly offered "find
something.." and begins typing "Zapp" letter by letter. After typing
the second letter about 800ms later, "find something.." already pops
out a app icon she can launch per click or upon pressing ENTER..


2. FINDING FILES AND FRIENDS QUICKLY
NuRdy wants to send bRainY some photos from last week's night out.

CURRENT METHOD
NuRdy opens Nautilus, email "Compose" window is already open in the background.
After finding a folder called "DSC92xyz" that most likely contains the
last photo sync from his mobile phone, he searches it for some recent
pictures.
After a lot of distraction, scrolling and zooming, NuRdy arrives at a
couple of last week's shots.
Now he selects some, grabs them with the mouse and tries to overcome
the DnD issues his windowmanager is imposing onto him, by somehow
dropping the bundle onto the "Compose" window for inclusion in his new
email to bRainY.
Nurdy finishes composing and hits send.

FAYT METHOD
NuRdy hits ALT+F1, starts typing photos and is offered "photos" upon
the first letter already. presses enter. sees a list of the most
recent fotos synced onto his computer. selects the ones he likes best
for impressing bRainY, right-clicks one of them and chooses "send via
email to..", which brings up a people-search dialog. starts typing
"bRainY", as "bRainY" already appears upon the second letter, ready to
be added to "Recipient" in the "Compose" window about to be
automatically invoked with all selected photos readily attached.


3. FINDING VISITED SITES QUICKLY
JereMyA## forgot his favourite uncle's photo blog URL

CURRENT METHOD
JereMyA## opens Mozilla Firefox, his favourite browser, searches the
bookmarks and to his astoundment doesn't remember what exactly he
chose to name his uncle's favourite blog in there, before he went on
his extended holiday.
JereMyA## knows the shortcut combination CTRL+L > TAB will take him to
the FAYT google search field in Firefox, so he does it. After typing
his favourite uncle's full name, he receives suggestions for a famous
tabletennis player, two popular actors and a bookstore in Wyoming.
After some more depressing attempts, JereMyA## decides to search his
browsing history via CTRL-H in Mozilla Firefox. After some more of his
patience has been consumed by scrollbars and confusing list items,
JereMyA## find's his uncle's blog page among the recently visited
items, and launches it.

FAYT METHOD
JereMyA## hits ALT+F1, starts typing his favourite uncle's name. After
the third letter, the dialog offers him a large friendly thumbnail of
his favourite uncle's mugshot, relational information such as blog,
email address, IM contact(showing availability) and telephone number
beside it as buttons. JereMyA## selects "blog" and is presented with a
new tab in his favourite browser, showing his favourite uncle's blog.



WHATS YOUR SCENARIO??

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Re: [Ayatana] Integrating Application Search & Install

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 18:39, Frederik Nnaji  wrote:
> FAYT METHOD
> Netbookuser47 presses ALT+F1 [1], is instantly offered "find
> something.." and begins typing "Zapp" letter by letter.

add:
[1] ALT+F1 is Superkey in Microsoft Windows.. i never disagreed with
that mapping on XP.

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Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 17:28, Dylan McCall  wrote:
> Something quick that occurs to me is that the password
> dialog could show a personal message
> or a picture that only PolicyKit or gksudo has access to.

THANK YOU for putting a dot to this hairy topic!
i hope the security team is aware of leapholes opening in the UI, and
will suggest some stuff in detail.

> Really, what this is about is "don't tell your password to strange
> programs;" we need to help the user identify strange programs and
> understand the risk.

yes very much so. Linux is strong, my main argument to those
interested: no viruses, no perfomance loss through firewalls and
scanners.

we ought to keep it that way!

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Re: [Ayatana] Integrating Application Search & Install

[Frederik Nnaji]

Hi Tyler

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 19:05, Tyler Brainerd  wrote:
> "Defying all variations of Finn's law,"
>
> Are we talking about Fitts law?

yes indeed. thanks for actually reading ;)

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Re: [Ayatana] Skipping Multiple songs?

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 11:41, Thorsten Wilms  wrote:
> On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 14:43 +0530, Vishnoo wrote:
>> With the indicator applications menu and music player menu, I can skip
>> one song at a time.

errm did we have any mockups of this already?
i wouldn't remember where..
are you guys referring to the Rhythmbox control thingy in the panel?

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Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 22:12, Ted Gould  wrote:
> Whether or not it's important to UI design is independent to whether it
> is related to removing the notification area.  For instance, the update
> manager icon could as easily be an app indicator or notification area
> icon.
>
> So, I think what David is asking for here is another thread more than a
> removal of the discussion overall.
>
>                --Ted

yah, things drift away and we all sail along with them sometimes, i
noticed this since i recently joined this list.
while charming on the one hand, it can get a little confusing and
perhaps even stall a creative process by adding too much dissipatory
energy..

i think we all know the rules, if you want to take it OT, branch out.

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Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 22:12, Ted Gould  wrote:
> Whether or not it's important to UI design is independent to whether it
> is related to removing the notification area.  For instance, the update
> manager icon could as easily be an app indicator or notification area
> icon.
>
> So, I think what David is asking for here is another thread more than a
> removal of the discussion overall.
>
>                --Ted

yah, things drift away and we all sail along with them sometimes, i
noticed this since i recently joined this list.
while charming on the one hand, it can get a little confusing and
perhaps even stall a creative process by adding too much dissipatory
energy..

i think we all know the rules, if you want to take it OT, branch out.

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Re: [Ayatana] Unexpected close functionality

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 14:27, Marc Deslauriers
 wrote:
> Although I don't do it myself, some people may choose to have rhythmbox
> open automatically with their session by using the options in
> System/Preferences/Startup Applications/Options. When this is done, it
> could be expected behaviour to have rhythmbox start in the notification
> area. This could explain the users lining up to scream. :)
>
> Marc.

special behaviour requires special instruction.
if we have a consistency issue with close/minimize/maximize buttons,
that should be solved with  bug 270206

to hide the main window of an application, so it runs in the
background as a daemon or similar, we need extra functionality.
perhaps a UI option "hide rhythmbox" or similar..

in future, we will control not only rhythmbox from that indicator up
there.. i would like for the music player indicator to honor my choice
of preferred music player, just as the messaging menu does it ( :P
does not properly)

am i badly wrong with my thinking?

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Re: [Ayatana] Skipping Multiple songs?

[Frederik Nnaji]

Ja, essentially, this is totem and rhythmbox cut up and screwed back 
together. Ideas I like in this thread, visualized roughly in a mockup.

How about constructive ideas on this visual concept?

On 28.04.2010 18:24, Chow Loong Jin  wrote: 


That mockup looks really similar to the large tooltips that Rhythmbox and

Banshee were having prior to app-indicator-ification.

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Re: [Ayatana] Skipping Multiple songs?

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 10:24, Vishnoo  wrote:

> That should be good, it is similar to the current Win7 one and
> gnome-shell's plan.
>

yeah, GNOME Shell is going that direction also, i was shown earlier today..
i'd shrink my transport control buttons a little bit tho, right?


> also a few mockups here:
> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/24627
>

i want my seek bar ;(
otherwise, i like these mockups, too
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Re: [Ayatana] Reducing Resistance to Change

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 09:04, Vishnoo  wrote:

> .. folks think some decisions are being
> truly dictatorial.
>

like most people here realize:
good PR will do the trick.
tell the people timely, inform them about the radiant enlightenment that
awaits them, and they will embrace the changes thankfully as soon as they
are provided with them.

obfuscation and secrecy work well for some companies, in the open source
world it's all about transparency and openness..

the question at hand is easily answered, considering the foundation on which
all of this is built upon.
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Re: [Ayatana] Finger Swipe Gadgets

[Frederik Nnaji]

Hi Jan ;)
aaah, my favourite topic, AR ;)

On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 03:44, Jan-Christoph Borchardt wrote:
>
> Or looking like he’s using Opera Face Gestures:
> http://labs.opera.com/news/2009/04/01/ ;)
>

where did Compiz' AR feature go ( head tracking )
i'd like me some real 3d again.. what a shame..
here's where i saw it months ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5ODz3MNd6s
http://wiki.compiz.org/Plugins/Headtracking

the university of Bonn developed hand tracking, they play quake II with the
webcam as the only HID.. i think the code is Open Source
http://cg.cs.uni-bonn.de/en/projects/markerless-vision-based-hand-tracking-for-interaction/

Pranav Mistry ( MIT) became famous on TED a while ago presenting "sixth
sense technology", a whole bunch of tracking apps and gestural control
libraries.. he said he'd take all his code open source.. what's with all
that?
even NASA researchers want the code now...

and the famous ARToolkit for gesture and object tracking via webcam is also
not so bespoken in the desktop linux community, funny.. it's also GPL -
could make for some serious eyecandy :D
http://www.hitl.washington.edu/artoolkit/

ATOMIC WEB..
well here's something i haven't tried yet, an easy tool to make your own AR
application for the web; it exports .swf as far as i could establish..
http://www.sologicolibre.org/projects/atomicweb/en/

dream on, dreamer...
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Re: [Ayatana] Two suggested designs for the Sound Indicator

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 12:04, Jan-Christoph Borchardt wrote:

> If certain notifications are masked by loud music, there should be a
> function to automatically slightly dim every other sound when a
> notification is playing (in a subtle, not in an annoying way, of
> course).
>
>
yah, that would be a so-called side-chain effect, i don't know if pulse can
do that yet..
not so difficult though, considering the audio routing. since pulse houses
everything neatly now, it could easily provide for side-chaining too..
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Re: [Ayatana] Two suggested designs for the Sound Indicator

[Frederik Nnaji]

2010/5/3 Martín Soto 
>
> What I conclude from this is that putting a mixer-style interface in the
> sound menu, as proposed originally is not a good idea, even for more or less
> advanced use cases like this. What would be interesting is a mechanism for
> pausing playback automatically when more urgent sources need to take over.
>

so before i go back into making useless audio indicator mockups, i'll ask a
few questions about the ideas presented here..

a) how about listing mute toggle and play/pause for relevant apps?

a buttoned interface with columns or rows for the respective
apps..with little 3 Bit digital volume meters (2 for stereo/surround, 1 for
mono)  attached to each app icon


b) do we really need "main volume"?

IMO, main volume will never require changing.
In a digital audio system 0dB is the overall total maximum of possible
amplitude.
everything else will never exceed this fixed value.
either remove the fader, or call it "all" and use it to toggle all single
application volumes, is my opinion.


c) do we need a global mute button?

personally, i think so, yes.
would that be the default action on audio indicator middle click?


d) are indicators going to be obviously clickable buttons in the end?

so far, indicators are dynamic informative icons, informing with the option
of interaction onClick. onRelease is only losely defined, onDrag not at all
as far as implementation is concerned. i would enjoy an audio indicator
button/applet icon capable of muting all volumes or regulating them on basis
of a pointer dragging gesture
this would be especially helpful with touchscreen enabled devices
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Re: [Ayatana] How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 03:51, Scott Ritchie  wrote:

> On 05/03/2010 04:03 PM, Shane Fagan wrote:
> > Hey Scott,
> >
> > I actually find the network indication ok at the moment.
>

this might be OT but let me say it:
i think the indication is just fine, configuring a pppoe connection should
be handled by pppoeconf, since NM has quite a few cases in which it fails to
connect DSL ppp over ethernet, where pppoeconf just simply works.
another reason for this is that pppoeconf has an interactive UI, a wizard so
to speak, one question at a time. NM doesn't have a wizard for DSL pppoe
until today.
perhaps Zenity can help with this for now?!
there is also a configuration bug, that disables NM, once pppoeconf
configures pppoe..
simple file deletion workaround is available for that, once one is ready to
switch back to NM.
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[Ayatana] BluePrints/OnlineStatus [was: How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?]

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 03:39, Martin Owens  wrote:
>
> Here is the blueprint wiki page:
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BluePrints/OnlineStatus
>
> It's got some cruft in there, but the basics are a set of tests that
> when combined together produce a status.
>

thanks, Martin.

a thought on this: can we merge the personal availability bubble from the
me-menu indicator with the network indicators online indication somehow?
a) it's a more social/personal way of informing the user instead of
ambigious techno symbols..
b) IM availability and Online Status are directly related by nature
note: taking IM offline doesn't mean going offline.
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Re: [Ayatana] Work by project

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 19:51, Kao Chen  wrote:

> Hi,
> I have made a two news mockups.
> The first is the overview with a new menu  to manage projects.
> You can to drag and drop a project to the workspace you want.
> http://nsa15.casimages.com/img/2010/05/03/100503101754810934.png
>
> The second is a fullscreen mockup with a project activated.
> http://nsa15.casimages.com/img/2010/05/02/100502065741947598.png
> For each project, you have a widget full of files who belong to the
> activated project.
> I add an other widget, a mix between GAJ and Sezen, for a quickly access to
> files in time.
> I covered all the desktop because If you work on a project, you don't have
> to use desktop.
> But I don't like very much this idea, and the desktop is a little bit dark.
>
> So I made a third mockup here, with one desktop-folder for each projects:
> http://nsa14.casimages.com/img/2010/05/03/100503101939790053.png
> And the sezen dock can be hide.
>
> I have made a lot of mockups, and each time I regret that a project
> management doesn't already exist. ;)


while i regret the absense of a lot of features in GNOME Shell's sidebar,
this one you are recommending is really hot!

thanks for the ideas, very inspiring, project based thinking is a way to go.
what i like most in your design is the total disregard of data types, you
are diplaying programs, people and files/folders as objects related to a
common use - that's incredible ;)

this idea of yours is especially useful in implementing the ideas on the
open collaboration services spec on freedesktop.org
http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/open-collaboration-services
the spec tries to integrate commonity with the desktop, collaborative
projects are what i'm thinking of in this respect..
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Re: [Ayatana] Two suggested designs for the Sound Indicator

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 20:29, Diego Moya  wrote:

> > Left-click, hold, move cursor down a couple of millimeters, release.
> > Muted.
>
> So, does it mean that a direct drag does control the slider?
>

hahaaah, you are misunderstanding each other ;)
alex is referring to the lucid volume indicator with its menu item "Mute
All".
i consider this unintuitive.
a simple drag would do the trick..
+intuitive (no reading of text menu items, just gesture and immediate
feedback)
+faster (doesn't depend on indirect scrolling or precision mouse usage)
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Re: [Ayatana] Two suggested designs for the Sound Indicator

[Frederik Nnaji]

2010/5/4 Martín Soto 

> 2010/5/4 Frederik Nnaji 
>
>> a buttoned interface with columns or rows for the respective
>> apps..with little 3 Bit digital volume meters (2 for stereo/surround, 1 for
>> mono)  attached to each app icon
>>
>
> How many applications would you expect to find in practice on such a
> table/list? I would expect a maximum of two, and that only in rare cases.
>

yes, perhaps 2, maybe more.
good that you mention this: i think the most reasonable solution then would
be rows instead of columns per app.

Also, do you really want to control stereo balance separately for each
> application you use?
>

meters: purely informative, no control for stereo balance.

one meter means we're listening to a mono source
two bars means it's stereo or multistream

meters are helpful, since they visualize sound.. per app.
you can easily think of multiple intuitive advantages of such a feature in
your UI.
they are not difficult to implement.
programming an EQ would be much harder.
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Re: [Ayatana] Two suggested designs for the Sound Indicator

[Frederik Nnaji]

I insist on remembering our problems here, they were stated clearly before, but 
this thread needs it's own project wiki..

*Receiving calls..
..without the need to do anything but simply "pick up the phone".
*reliably driving all the necessary hardware in (video) telephony mode
*a way to pause stuff in unfocused or hidden windows, otherwise to mute them, 
or identify their audible emissions visually in a navigable gallery or list
*a simple, intuitive way of suppressing all sound through a virtual "mute" 
button for the whole computer
*an improvement of the intelligence and elegance of the current exploitation of 
the acoustic awareness sphere in our own Ayatana

Please excuse typos and ToFu

-- Sent from my Palm Pre
On 05.05.2010 02:30, Diego Moya  wrote: 

On 4 May 2010 17:18, Jan-Christoph Borchardt  wrote:

> On 4 May 2010 20:20, Diego Moya wrote:

>> I preferred the old way where

>> you used a single precise click to reduce a deafening sound, instead

>> of having to wheel down during a couple seconds to achieve an

>> acceptable level. This critical case is not well supported by the

>> current volume control.

>

> How often does this critical case happen to users that it would

> justify having a sound slider present at all times? It is just one

> click more.



The always present slider is also useful for the common case of

adjusting volume (you know, the primary goal). A one-centimeter-wide

slider (smaller than the Me menu) is enough for most volume adjustment

needs with one single click or one click+drag.



The current hide slider is not "just one click more", it also requires

one third click to dismiss the floating slider. Compare "1

click+release" vs "click+release, click+drag+release, click+release"

to see the real interaction complexity being traded for 50 horizontal

pixels.



There's also the problem of several consecutive volume adjustments,

for example while setting up a comfortable level for a new radio song.

In addition to the fine volume tuning, the user has to decide wether

to dismiss the floating slider or not at the end of each adjustment. I

know it bothers me to no end for quite a frequent task.





> This is far too complex for normal users and a normal use case.



Is far simpler than the "one slider per application" proposed at the

beginning of the thread.



This design can be made a little simpler by eliminating the tri-status

button. I've posted it to the Brainstorm as solution #6:



http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/24627/







>

> If you go out and monitor a ton of users, how many will know that a

> Firefox sound control also controls Flash apps inside the browser?

> They will just use the slider provided by the Flash app because that’s

> what is nearby.



And they'll be bitten later when they try to adjust volume up using

the global control and it only goes up to half volume. Not so critical

for Flash videos, a serious error when its the media player the one

with dimmed sound.







> On 4 May 2010 22:31, Alex Launi wrote:

>> What's insufficient about the current Sound Preferences UI? 
I almost never

>> have to adjust application volumes, is this where we should be 
focusing our

>> energy?



Per-application absolute volume is not needed. Relative sound

preferences so that one application doesn't step over another one, is

needed. See use cases by Martin - the most important is getting a call

while listening to music. There should be a way to reduce music volume

without having to hunt for the Media player window.



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Re: [Ayatana] Two suggested designs for the Sound Indicator

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 10:30, Sense Hofstede  wrote:

> Do you think the Currently Playing information from media players
> should be added here as well? Or would that make the menu too large?
>

isn't this the most fundamental question in this whole thread?
are we actually going to have the audio indicator merged with the music
player indicator into a new "audio" indicator?

*video* is the obvious purpose of *everything* within the frames of your
display, be it a 10" netbook screen or a HD beamer projection to your
favourite canvas..

*audio* needs to be represented visually, since audible playback is not
always as easily accessible or focused as *video* is for the most of us.

i think, contributing to the "problem description" search in this thread, we
can consider the visual representation of audio itself in our DE as a viable
foundation for further elaboration.
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Re: [Ayatana] Two suggested designs for the Sound Indicator

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 15:31, Diego Moya  wrote:
>
> See revised mockup, it includes player controls and Current Playing.

beautiful.

thoughts:
a) the play and pause buttons are mutually exclusive.
combine them into one, like so:  ᐅ॥
or alternate the 2 icons depending on the player status.

b) add a little LED style volume meter beside each app icons to
indicate audio activity.
i previously recommended 2-3 bits dynamic resolution for this.
2 bits would enable 4 possible dynamic levels to be indicated, where i
would choose red vor the highest, yellow for the third and green for
the first 2. 3 bits would probably be better..

c) offering a "medium" state besides mute/on will have to be subjected
to user testing, IMO
that thing is called mute, so keep it that way, is what i suggest. no
third state.

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Re: [Ayatana] Two suggested designs for the Sound Indicator

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 15:31, Diego Moya  wrote:
>
> See revised mockup, it includes player controls and Current Playing.

beautiful.

thoughts:
a) the play and pause buttons are mutually exclusive.
combine them into one, like so:  ᐅ॥
or alternate the 2 icons depending on the player status.

b) add a little LED style volume meter beside each app icons to
indicate audio activity.
i previously recommended 2-3 bits dynamic resolution for this.
2 bits would enable 4 possible dynamic levels to be indicated, where i
would choose red vor the highest, yellow for the third and green for
the first 2. 3 bits would probably be better..

c) offering a "medium" state besides mute/on will have to be subjected
to user testing, IMO
that thing is called mute, so keep it that way, is what i suggest. no
third state.

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Re: [Ayatana] Use cases for volume control

[Frederik Nnaji]

2010/5/5 Alex Lourie :
> Set Firefox half-gain from Max by default?

i wouldn't do that.
most people i know watch movies in the browser, youtube, myspace, facebook,
soundcloud etc half-gain/full-gain/mute is a poor alternative to
automatic priority handling IMHO.

browser volume *should* be controllable through the DE; today, we have
streaming audio media embedded in webpages. this is simply necessary. at the
moment, flashplugin shows up most of the time in the pulse audio indicator
menu.. i'd prefer to read either "Firefox" or "Youtube" as reasonable
identifiers. personally, i favour "Firefox".

more on use cases for volume control faders:

1. browsers
2. filemanagers (e.g. preview)
3. sound themes

any other ideas?
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Re: [Ayatana] Redesigning the Ubuntu mouse cursor for simple notification of app attention

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 02:24, Alex Launi  wrote:

> I usually move my cursor completely out of view when I'm not using it. I've
> definitely seen my roommate, brother, and mom all do the same.


that's a problem.
how about removing the mouse cursor altogether while typing?
if the last known position of it was within the text field, the two cursors
are, as so many buttons and tools in our evolving DE, mutually exclusive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_exclusion

this can be dealth with easily.
once the cursor wants to leave the focused text window area, it becomes a
mouse pointer again.


I don't think the cursor is a good place to be trying to convey information
> unless it's actively being used such as hand over links, resize handle, etc.
>

the focal point is a good place. that's what i extract out of your statement
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Re: [Ayatana] Idea: integrate progress windicators in GNOME-Shell overview

[Frederik Nnaji]

Previet Serioga ;)

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 17:16, Сергей  wrote:

> Hello everyone!
> I would like to propose a feature that was previously requested in
> numerous mockups, most notably the original ToPaZ brainstorm. User
> needs to see what's going on on their desktop, that's why overview
> mode was created in GNOME-Shell. But user needs not only to see their
> windows - a good overview should also show what long-lasting processes
> are going on, for example, how soon will a new Ubuntu release will be
> downloaded with Transmission. Transmission already exports data about
> the progress to windicator, why don't grab it and show it in
> GNOME-Shell overview? There's a mockup of such extension an
> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/?content=105672. It should be
> simple to implement, and this way the overview window would truly
> serve its purpose.
>

very nice idea!
we spoke about similar ideas in an earlier thread on a proposed aggregated
downloads service.

we were speaking of integrating file transfers generally..
please have a look at https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg01334.html to
refresh your memory.

i personally love the idea and would enjoy seeing that thread come back to
life again.
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Re: [Ayatana] Idea: integrate progress windicators in GNOME-Shell overview

[Frederik Nnaji]

Previet Serioga ;)

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 17:16, Сергей  wrote:

> Hello everyone!
> I would like to propose a feature that was previously requested in
> numerous mockups, most notably the original ToPaZ brainstorm. User
> needs to see what's going on on their desktop, that's why overview
> mode was created in GNOME-Shell. But user needs not only to see their
> windows - a good overview should also show what long-lasting processes
> are going on, for example, how soon will a new Ubuntu release will be
> downloaded with Transmission. Transmission already exports data about
> the progress to windicator, why don't grab it and show it in
> GNOME-Shell overview? There's a mockup of such extension an
> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/?content=105672. It should be
> simple to implement, and this way the overview window would truly
> serve its purpose.
>

very nice idea!
we spoke about similar ideas in an earlier thread on a proposed aggregated
downloads service.

we were speaking of integrating file transfers generally..
please have a look at https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg01334.html to
refresh your memory.

i personally love the idea and would enjoy seeing that thread come back to
life again.
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Re: [Ayatana] Redesigning the Ubuntu mouse cursor for simple notification of app attention

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 20:31, Gavin Langdon  wrote:

> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Frederik Nnaji 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> how about removing the mouse cursor altogether while typing?
>>
>
> Actually, IIRC OS X does this and it's quite a nice feature (although
> sometimes it just appears like it's a bug rather than a feature).
>

yeah.. not being familiar with OS X that much, i can only guess that this
here is slightly different from Apple's approach..
IIRC, the mouse cursor disappears while typing, until the mouse is moved, as
far as OS X is concerned..
i rather mean here: merge both cursors into one while typing.

why:
*while typing, my focus is either on something i am reading or, as usually,
on the letters following the text cursor
*to do any DnD operations on recently input text, i would only have to
"touch" the mouse, instead of hauling it over all the way from wherever i
was hiding it to not obscure my vision while typing..

above mentioned behaviour of slinging the mouse way out of the window while
typing would then not be necessary anymore.


about the thread's main topic:
yes, i was also considering to allow tooltips to travel with the mouse
cursor, since our focal point usually does, too.
the necessity to "sling the mouse cursor out of sight" so it may no longer
disturb should be countered altogether.
first of all, mouse cursors should never obstruct, they should help with
orientation.
the purpose of a mouse pointer is, to allow the user to focus on special
small areas for interaction.

i can think of dozens of improvements we can come up with, if we brainstorm
that original purpose in context with what options we have nowadays.

next thought also:
the mouse is always above any other windows, just like a widget layer.
we should consider assigning default actions to the mouse, depending on what
kind of object it is hovering..

innumerable possibilities are inspired through this thread, thank you for
reviving such a crucial interface meme
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Re: [Ayatana] Redesigning the Ubuntu mouse cursor for simple notification of app attention

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 12:51, Frederik Nnaji wrote:

> about the thread's main topic:
> first of all, mouse cursors should never obstruct, they should help with
> orientation.
> the purpose of a mouse pointer is, to allow the user to focus on special
> small areas for interaction.
>

i found another thread in ubuntuforums, discussing something like our
topic..
a user was complaining about the passive mouse pointer stealing focus from
the users interactive attention focal point..
see: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1343444

i think "enhancements around the human's UI experience" is the true topic
title of this..
thinking of the user experience, it's like conducting a vehicle through a
traffic environment of unmanaged information and code.

the tools available to maneouver such a grid of possible routes are all to
be designed in order to facilitate the travel into one direction at a time:
the focal point.

the human focal point being a dynamic property, is the actual point of
reference for any reasonably thinking desktop designer.. the next to kin is
"imaginable virtual focal points", like the once deriving of Fitt's law.

to mention the mouse pointer's behaviour in this context is like questioning
the elementary ethics of what "usability" should mean..

we have been discussing how panels will be designed in the future,
diogonally opposing corners of the desktop will serve diaogonally opposed
hot-corner purposes:
top-left - bottom right
interaction - information

that's great and has something to do with window management and wrapping a
"shell" around a hard core of logical functionality.

i suggest let's talk about the actual logical functionality of the human's
focal point at the computer.. if a little excourse into human interface
philosophy may be granted..
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Re: [Ayatana] Two suggested designs for the Sound Indicator

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 00:18, Jan-Christoph Borchardt wrote:

> If you go out and monitor a ton of users, how many will know that a
> Firefox sound control also controls Flash apps inside the browser?
> They will just use the slider provided by the Flash app because that’s
> what is nearby. And if the case happens where they have 20 tabs open
> (rarely ever happens for normal users * **) and try to find the guilty
> one, they can still use the global control.
>
> * http://dubroy.com/blog/how-many-tabs-do-people-use-now-with-real-data/
> **
> http://mozillalabs.com/testpilot/2009/09/30/test-pilot-ready-to-dig-into-some-data/
>

i would instead prefer to see a better control both for behaviour and
derivable misbehaviour of the flashplugin in our browser. i don't know if it
is already possible to send volume or playback instructions to the
proprietary flashplugin during runtime..

how often have i used full screen in adobe's flashplugin, and once i
attempted to touch the keyboard or to change brightness or volume on my
netbook, fullscreen state was broken, the window focus is lost to the naked
unintuitive markup page hosting the video, the user experience is betrayed.

how about detecting that a flash movie is playing and changing the system's
keymap into movie mode!?
filter the keyboard input device event stream to adobe flashplugin by Fn
keypresses (cases: media keyboards, netbooks, notebooks..)  or modifyer keys
CTRL, ALT, SUPER (they don't work in flash anyway) to enable advanced window
management in fullscreen

fullscreen is something we need to be less stingy with..
i'm trying to consider it in context with this indicator..
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Re: [Ayatana] Details on the netbook menu bar plan

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 08:20, Mark Shuttleworth  wrote:

>
> MPT posted details on the global menu challenges we face, on
> design.canonical.com:
>
>   http://design.canonical.com/2010/05/menu-bar/
>
> If you haven't seen it, it's worth a read.
>
> We expect to have a prototype implementation available next week, at
> which point the race to get it all done by 10.10 begins! We'll need a
> lot of help on this one - there are hundreds of apps to be checked and
> tested, and no doubt a lot of code to be written too.
>
> Mark
>

oh whow this is becoming the Bentley among netbook DEs!

thanks a lot, i'll be happy to test this as it arrives next week..
i'm getting fed up of tweaking gnome-panel ad absurdum..
thanks also for keeping us posted on the plans ;)
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Re: [Ayatana] Two suggested designs for the Sound Indicator

[Frederik Nnaji]

2010/5/12 Martín Soto 

> If you want to activate it, though, it's as easy as changing the
> flat-volumes setting in /etc/pulse/daemon.conf to "yes".
>

thank you ;)


> Ensuring the alert sounds are loud enough to be heard over other sounds
>> - -- whether by making them temporarily louder, or making the other sounds
>> temporarily softer -- is an interesting idea, but it seems out of scope
>> for the sound menu itself.
>>
>
can be handled automatically by "side-chaining".
does pulse know side-chaining?

My idea to implement this, by the way, would be to measure the perceptual
> loudness [3] of the current stream using Replay Gain [4] or similar. The
> resulting (instant) value would be used to set the volume for the
> notification stream. This can probably be all done inside PulseAudio by
> creating an appropriate module.
>

i wouldn't want main volume to change automatically..
this is a very individual thing that should be left to the user's individual
preference/control..

Since I'm not an expert in signal processing, however, I don't know how
> difficult it would be to implement Replay Gain or a similar loudness measure
> in a way that can be used for this purpose. I also wonder what the impact on
> battery life would be. I'll try to look a bit more into these issues and
> report here when/if I find some answers. Of course, any useful pointers will
> be greatly appreciated.
>

you can't handle streams efficiently with Replay Gain.
Normalizing means the entire file has to be read first and scanned for
transients..

Altering the dynamics of digital audio information would alter the
information or message itself.. if you want to do this for flashmovies or
the like, report the bug to Adobe.
you can't just simply alter the dynamics of a sound creation, without
altering the actual message the respective sound is trying to convey..
dynamics are a major part of the semantics of sound.

normalizing a 3min audiofile takes quite a lot of CPU power and therefore
doesn't make sense at this point in this context.
and yes: of course this kind of cpu load would shorten battery life, if
constantly applied to files and streams when played..
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Re: [Ayatana] Two suggested designs for the Sound Indicator

[Frederik Nnaji]

2010/5/12 Martín Soto 

>
> My idea to implement this, by the way, would be to measure the perceptual
> loudness [3] of the current stream using Replay Gain [4] or similar. The
> resulting (instant) value would be used to set the volume for the
> notification stream. This can probably be all done inside PulseAudio by
> creating an appropriate module.
>

the behaviour you are suggesting is called dynamic processing.
there are dozens of algorithms currently available and GPLed for this,
including expanders, compressors, maximizers, limiters and maximizing
limiters...

Audacity, Ardour and some Xmms clones do these via plugins.

fiddling with dynamics is a question of taste, as i stated before... i
wouldn't recommend it to anybody for default configuration.. one should
leave that in the plugins or as an option, if people vote to have it..

eventually the PA preferences will enable DSP plugins or at least eQ and
advanced dynamics in a way discoverable for audiophiles.. so i hope
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Re: [Ayatana] Integrating Application Search & Install

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 21:45, Diego Moya  wrote:

> If aiming for simplicity, I see how restricting search to just
> applications can help. But when the user searches to retrieve
> applications is because s/he don't know which application is the best
> one to use for a given task, in which case it's highly valuable to
> show all valid applications for that task, not just those installed.
>

exactly, the dialog should be interactive, simple and context driven.
GNOME Usability is currently discussing Do-ifying the ALT+F2 dialog to
handle this type of functionality..

now something about XFCE Application Finder itself, the mysterious
application that inspired this discussion in the first place..

upon trying to launch an application e.g. Calculator, a .desktop file opens
in Gedit instead..
perhaps i should mention that in the XFCE ML, but right now it breaks the
whole experience with this idea..
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Re: [Ayatana] Sound Menu

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 03:48, Tyler Brainerd wrote:

> Lets make some firm decisions about what means 'This program is open!' what
> means 'this feature is on/off' and what doesn't, in all the menus.
>

+1

Thanks tyler, been thinking the same for long.
I think we should always inform the user if the app who's icon he is looking
at is currently active or not.

The volume slider vor VoIP mics should be visible for any type of audio
capture through the audio interface, e.g. line-in or internal mixdown.

During voice calls, microphone feedback loops should be eliminated by an
appropiate algorithm within pulseaudio IMHO. perhaps we can do that
automatically for calls.

If incoming voice calls can interrupt or suddenly alter the user's audio
experience, then we should have a way of rejecting or blocking all incoming
audio calls from the beginning.
..in order not to allow such an interruption while watching a movie or
listening to a speech..
this could be taken care of by adding an appropiate module to empathy...
perhaps controllable via the me menu..
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Re: [Ayatana] File transfer dialog behaviour

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 00:37, Jarlath Reidy  wrote:

> If this is the wrong forum to bring this up, apologies in advance:
>
> I'm wondering if the current form of the file-transfer dialog is up for
> discussion.
>

i think as long as it has something to do with UI usability in Ubuntu, here
is the best place to discuss it.
this particular dialog is getting on my mind a lot..

i would like to suggest the following changes to the "file operations"
dialog:

* add "pause" button for each aggregated progress indicator
* delete partially transferred files upon cancel (while copying)
* remove the window title bar completely
* add a "hide" button to the dialog
* dismiss the dialog upon cancelling all operations
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Re: [Ayatana] Default to single click to open files and folders

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 21:18, Jan-Christoph Borchardt <
inqu...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> I must say I very much like how KDE / Dolphin handles
> that (shows a plus sign on hover, although it is a bit distracting).
>

yeah, indicating the possibility of drag on click, either when the
appropiate modifier is held or the pointer is above a draggable object would
be a starter for an improved mouse pointer..

but that's probably to be discussed in the mouse pointer thread.
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Re: [Ayatana] Work by project

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 17:06, Kao Chen  wrote:

> We have create a new design page in the GnomeShell Playground to promote
> this idea.
> I hope it will be more clear to understand.
>
> The link is here:
> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/MultiDesktop
>

this stuff is quite inspiring.
project based thinking is becoming more and more a metaphor for contextual
organization of your workspaces..

thanks for the inspiration!
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Re: [Ayatana] Default to single click to open files and folders

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 02:19, Luke Morton wrote:

> However, I think the all the hard work has already been done.
>
> I've just done a cursory test in Nautilus. I set it to single-click and
> double-clicked for every interaction:
> * folders only open once, (also when in spatial mode)
> * files only open once
>

another one down ;)
thanks everybody :D
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Re: [Ayatana] File transfer dialog behaviour

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 00:44, Alex Launi  wrote:

>
> For now maybe we should (as a project) watch that project, and help give
> suggestions and patches along to way to serve our agenda, and help upstream.
> [0]
> http://home.in.tum.de/~sickert/archives/2010/05/09/introducing_my_gsoc_project/index.html
>

ja you're right.
i'd suggest to remove the filtering stuff on the left in the main operations
window mockup, remove the titlebar also, add the hide button.

beautiful project, nice to see that upstream will chew that thing soft for
us..
we can now start thinking of an indicator for it..
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Re: [Ayatana] File transfer dialog behaviour

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 00:17, David Hamm  wrote:

> "i would like to suggest the following changes to the "file operations"
> dialog:
>
> * add "pause" button for each aggregated progress indicator
> * delete partially transferred files upon cancel (while copying)
> * remove the window title bar completely
> * add a "hide" button to the dialog
> * dismiss the dialog upon cancelling all operations"
>
> See attached Picture.
> Copy Icon: Minimize
> Close Icon: Cancel & Close
> Progress Bar: Click to Pause
>

thanks david

you chose a minimalistic approach, and i like those usually
the pause thingy isn't quite obvious yet, though it's a good idea, if it is
hinted somehow..
i prefer the cancel icon next to the progress bar, not above.

to hide the window i'd rather have the hide button..

eventually i hope for a global system hotkey for this window
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Re: [Ayatana] Default to single click to open files and folders

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 12:02, Remco  wrote:

> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 11:29, Alex Lourie  wrote:
> > So how would a simple selection be solved? If I want to select a file or
> a
> > folder, I single-click on it.
> > If this behavior changes, then A LOT of people will have to change their
> > behavior.
> > So if changing this hurts more people than helps, I'd say it requires a
> lot
> > of thinking ahead.
>
> I think single click should not be default, but there is one way of
> improving single selection in that mode: put a checkbox before each
> file and folder. This also makes it easier to do multi selection in
> any mode.
>

KDE defaults to this in dolphin.
it also defaults to comfortable single click.
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Re: [Ayatana] Default to single click to open files and folders

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 14:48, Remco  wrote:

> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 12:07, Alex Lourie  wrote:
> > On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Remco  wrote:
> >>
> >> I think single click should not be default, but there is one way of
> >> improving single selection in that mode: put a checkbox before each
> >> file and folder. This also makes it easier to do multi selection in
> >> any mode.
> >
> > And how would it be implemented in icon mode?
>
> A checkbox somewhere on the icon. I remember seeing this on a Windows
> machine:
> http://malektips.com/windows-7-explorer-checkbox-select-file.html


thanx, remco

note: checkbox appears on mouse-over.
this behaviour works best, if all thumbs are of the same size and muscle
memory is honored by the checkbox position.

for those who want to test this behaviour live: try Dolphin, it's just a
command away:
$sudo apt-get install dolphin
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Re: [Ayatana] Default to single click to open files and folders

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 14:17, Diego Moya  wrote:

> On 13 May 2010 14:08, Thorsten Wilms wrote:
> > You would get rid of the pesky timing issue, but introduce state and
> > still require 2 clicks for the most common action (if opening is not the
> > most common action on files or folders, I would suggest something is
> > going wrong).
>
> There will be (short) sessions when opening is the most common action,
> but then there are also sessions where selecting - for copying,
> moving, renaming - is the most common action.
>
> Actually I'd dare to say that the most frequent usage of the file
> manager is the second one. The preferred way to open files and
> applications in the modern desktop is through the top menus and
> instant-search tools like Gnome-DO. So why should "open" supposed to
> be the most common action? I don't think that assumption is true.
>

like somebody said on the xdg list... exposing hierarchical filesystems in
user space is the actual problem.
in German we would now say "jetzt haben wir den salat", meaning we are now
exposed to increased communication entropy within the UI ;)

honestly, please name the use cases for file operations.
i want to see thumbs for photos, not filenames.
i want to read metadata (artist, album, title, artwork) for songs.
other stuff should have titles or other forms of identification, not
filenames.
filenames are, nowadays, something to handle automagically; and with them
the absolute path of the respective file.

about clicking problems with drag and drop:
instead of complaining about how difficult drag operations will get when
clicking gets easier, better think about how to make single-clicking more
fault tolerant.
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Re: [Ayatana] Two suggested designs for the Sound Indicator

[Frederik Nnaji]

2010/5/13 Walter Wittel 

> Wouldn't reducing the volume of the other streams in x db below the
> notification be much easier to implement and achieve the goal of hearinf the
> notification? X could be different based on the urgency of the notification.
>
..or based on the current attention mode of the user.

watching a movie with my girlfriend, i don't want calls to break audio or IM
bubbles to jump into Batman's face. that's something we are not yet
addressing, and also the settings in the Me Menu don't quite cover that
yet..

Busy aka Do Not Disturb perhaps.. yeah.

and in that mode, i wouldn't want any blips or bubbles.
the only case i can think of as being relevant is a warning about imminent
hardware failure or such..

otherwise, read ahead the sum of active audio streams, calculate RMS and
duck[1] it to the notification sounds. if notification sounds are designed
well, then we DO want to hear them.
so now that they are actually helpful and don't suck anymore, please let me
know somehow, if they are muted.

[1] http://www.sweetwater.com/expert-center/glossary/t--Ducker
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Re: [Ayatana] Default to single click to open files and folders

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 17:50, Jan-Christoph Borchardt <
inqu...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> I’m sorry, but then why all the discussion? I brought up KDE / Dolphin
> in my second post.
>

sorry, that was about 20h and like 30 mails ago in this thread alone :D
birdseye perspective is not so easy anymore..

Conscious:
good idea with indicating dragabilty ;)

Jan-Christoph:
yeah, iPhone is a good example for what i'm about to suggest:

to follow the thought of creating an intuitive, consistent and thereby
easily depth-discoverable interface, we need to think dumb sometimes.
"smart" is then the product of intuitive thinking, not of complicated
pirouettes of mind.

how do i know that what i am touching can be moved?
how do i know that i'm selecting it, not activating or focusing it
(zoom/scale/spacial highlighting)?
altogether:
how do i know what i can do with an object, without previously knowing the
object?

we use little indications overlayed with the respective representation of
the object, be it a symbol or the object itself.

such indications or indicators can be:
a) mouse cursor shape
*hand (open in a drag and drop zone, clutching if something is being
held/dragged)
*finger (to indicate that i'm about to add to selection upon click)
*arrow (color: default/none for "go, open, run", blue for "info layer upon
click"...)
*bubble (for indicating the ability of immediate textual communication)
*text cursor (type without letting any mouse pointer get in the way of your
focus)
*[...] u name it!

b) status bar information
c) tooltips aka mouse-over info
d) pointer-focus-oriented morphing of symbols/icons/objects
e) [...] u name it!

just brainstorming.
i think i have always been quite good at thinking dumb ;)
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Re: [Ayatana] Two suggested designs for the Sound Indicator

[Frederik Nnaji]

2010/5/13 Diego Moya 

> 2010/5/13 Martín Soto:
> > The number of hidden automations in our daily lives boggles the mind! If
> > they all had an override mechanism, our world would be full with red
> buttons
> > behind Plexiglas covers. I'm glad this isn't the case, by the way.
>
> You've never pressed the wrong floor button in an elevator? That's the
> kind of overriding I'm referring to, not big "emergency stop red
> buttons" everywhere.
>

take this idea to an elevator manufacturer [1] [2], but GPL it first!
The russians have it already [3], but communism doesn't acknowledge patents
[4] :D
(Undo button for the elevator UI) ;) tellem to run the UI computer with
busybox :D
i'm sure this time Eben Moglen wouldn't have too much work on his hands, if
you do it right from the start!
great metaphor, i won't forget this one for months to come!

I'm afraid this conversation is becoming too offtopic for the thread,
>
as we're mainly talking about general design principles. I suggest
> either creating a new thread or taking it off-list except for the bits
> where we actually comment on the sound panel design.
>

:/ +1


[1] http://www.whynot.net/ideas/185
[2] http://jackodile.com/2009/09/21/i-want-a-cancel-button/
[3] http://www.flickr.com/photos/ifl/4116127364/
[4]
http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~eroberts/cs201/projects/communism-computing-china/intelproperty.html
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Re: [Ayatana] Default to single click to open files and folders

[Frederik Nnaji]

pretty!
where would you now place the checkbox for multiple selection?

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 18:35, Diego Moya  wrote:

> On 13 May 2010 18:31, Diego Moyawrote:
> > I attach a quick-n-dirty mockup of a visual design for how this can be
> > suggested.
>
> ... and a second version with several files, one of them with the
> mouseover.
>
>
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Re: [Ayatana] File transfer dialog behaviour

[Frederik Nnaji]

Hi David, your mockup looks pretty.. becoming more like a hybrid between our
notification bubbles and and interactive progress indication dialog..
i like the visual  this is taking!

some ideas on this:

REMOVE THE TITLE BAR
why?
a) imagine you hit the cancel button..
the window would close immediately, since there is nothing left to learn or
to interact with in this progress dialog.
b) minimizing this dialog should hide it, until you are notified about its
completion.

PAUSE OPERATION
add a pause button beside the "cancel" and you'll have an easily
discoverable "pause" feature.

ADD "CONTINUE IN BACKGROUND" BUTTON
all that's missing now is a way to let the computer know that you have
acknowledged the informative part and you don't wish to interact..
something like "continue in background".
winrar does this quite well ;)

OBJECT TITLE IN PROGRESS BAR
while copying, display the title of the object being copied in the progress
bar.
putting this information anywhere else in the dialog window doesn't make too
much sense.

REMOVE GEEKY INFORMATION
don't display details like filesize vs transferred data.
the progress bar should indicate that sufficiently.
perhaps add a [ + ] button for details on the operation.


On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 00:23, David Hamm  wrote:

> I was just board. Note the whole thing is color inverse from above.
>
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Re: [Ayatana] Pretty mockups with darkly coloured progress dialogs (was: File transfer dialog behaviour)

[Frederik Nnaji]

yeah, thx.
actually, we're on the verge of redesigning windows as a whole.

* the title bar is losing importance (e.g.  we're treating the buttons like
trivial objects)
* windows are turning into intelligently shaped objects or fullscreen work
environments
* clutterful information in our focal point is reduced
* overlayed widgets and dialogs don't cover formerly focused objects [1]

all this in mind, i think it's about time to reconsider the applications of
RGBA in our DE design, especialla the "A" in RGBA ;)

that's my thoughts on the matter

On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 00:06, Dylan McCall  wrote:

>
> I guess MacOS has dark windows and light windows following some kind
> of pattern, too. Anyone know what theirs is?
>

i remember notification bubbles that, in spite of informing me well, don't
obscure the object they are informing about or any other object, since they
are semi-tranparent..

all dialogs that are usually (gather use cases) rather informative than
interactive should behave like this IMO
- app-specific alerts
- progress bars
- menus
- floating toolbars
- widget layers


[1] http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/1074/rgbagtk2.png (from
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/RgbaGtkWithPPA/)
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Re: [Ayatana] Should Indicator-Session be put in the upper left corner

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 16:48, Mark Curtis  wrote:

>  The reasoning behind the controversial button movement to the left was
> that starting/quitting would be on the left, and status would be on the
> right.
>
> Given that reasoning, for consistency sake shouldn't indicator-session go
> on the far left since it is for starting/quitting an entire session?
>

aha!
looks interesting to me!
apple does this AFAIK

i'm not interested in copying windows or apple behaviour on the long run,
but there's nothing wrong with doing the right thing, once you started down
that path already..
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Re: [Ayatana] Default to single click to open files and folders

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 08:47, SorinN  wrote:

> On the topic of double click or single click - the user should choose
> not others. Open Source should not became a prison.
>

you are absolutely correct.
that's why there are other distributions and desktop environments out there.
we are merely discussing the DEFAULT setting for the distro at hand, Ubuntu.

to give it a more natural DE look and feel, we want to consider changes like
this one.

User testing has revealed that single click comes more intuitively to users
than double click.

that's the whole purpose of this discussion, not imprisonment or enslavement
;)

hola
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Re: [Ayatana] Criticism of Client Side Window Decorations

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 17:48, Scott Kitterman  wrote:

> "Akshat Jain"  wrote:
>
> >Link Copy-Pasta
> >
> http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2010/05/why-you-should-not-use-client-side-window-decorations/
> >
> http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2010/05/follow-up-on-client-side-decorations/
> >
> >This guy named Martin Gräßlin is a hardcore KWin fan I think,looks like if
> >he were a senior GNOME developer he would have replaced Metacity with
> >KWin.Lol
> >
> >Design Team?
>
> He's one of the leading kwin developers. It would be a bit surprising if he
> was not a fan.
>
> Personally I find turning window decoration over to applications an odd way
> to go about increasing consistency on the desktop.
>

i see the point, though.
turning over the title bar design to the app will not increase consistency
altogether..

two things happen, if we do this:
* app designers will consider DE-wide consistency more
* sooner introduction of gnome-globalmenu
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Re: [Ayatana] Instant-messaging as an indicator menu

[Frederik Nnaji]

The Social Desktop, nicely wrapped in a consistent and comfortable UI, will
bring the Meercat into many a household! ;)

Humans share their knowledge and skills in the Ubuntu community, why don't
apps also behave like that? Something i can't stop reasoning about..
Yeah, we need to untangle Ubuntu's social desktop apps, give them an
intuitive and accessible structuring, make the social apps talk to each
other.
Some more userland IPC for a change would help enormously, and we have most
of the code for this out there already.

Me Menu, Messaging Menu and Contact List, all accessible by 1 click from
Ubuntu's Gnome Panel, are not working together as one, and they are not
behaving consistently with the other giant baby newcomer Gwibber, nor is
anyone really saving up my facebook/google talk contacts in the cloud
(Ubuntu One).
why not?
a) Me Menu duplicates availability setting from Contact List: confusion.
b) Me Menu configures services that live in the Messaging Menu: confusion.
c) "Click-Hold-Aim-Release" is no improvement to "Click" (show
contacts/Messaging Menu): a step backwards
d) Contact List doesn't deserve its name, it's only an availability status
notifier with IM nicks at the moment.
e) gwibber's behaviour is inferior to all popular Website AJAX interactivity
(clicking "like" or adding comments reloads the whole stream-page and breaks
the user's interaction focus by jumping to the top of the stream...)

We should *at least* match the interactivity comfort of facebook.com and
mail.google.com..
Perhaps some dedicated usage of WebKit with a minimal local LAMP and some
accessible scripts and some CSS featuring RGBA in a WebKit based UI would
make a more powerful interface than the Erlang experiments currently
happening in Gwibber.. who knows anything about that?
* is it smart to implement AJAX-based social website UI behaviour using
Erlang?
* does your facebook.com stream jump to the top when you commit a comment?
* does your jabber webclient on mail.google.com reload the whole page for
every IM?
* does your bike release the clutch when you flip the light switch?
* does your mobile phone reboot its UI for each button pressed?

As long as Gwibber sucks, i will use the respective webpages instead.
I'm not alone in this observation, prove me wrong.
Same goes for Evolution, which is a landmark jack-of-all-trades suite of
Unusability [1].
We might as well go back into using POTS and paper mail, if Evolution is
meant to be the state of the art.
Being free of charge is no USP or catcher nowadays, when OSX costs about $50
and Windows 7 is delivered as factory default on most machines nowadays.
If we removed Gimp from Lucid, i suggest remove Gwibber from Lucid+1 also.
It was nice to see it in action, but i can't take the Ubuntu social desktop
seriously as long as Gwibber's obstructive scrollbars are bigger than the
information in between them. Not yet.

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 18:52, David Hamm  wrote:

>
> https://docs.google.com/drawings/edit?id=1jC_EV0X2GuZh15xN9QvmUzquK7EjqVkCbqgXbgEsYOY&hl=en
>
> Maybe this would be better then wave, :p wave is still to young.
>

yeah, nice one. This would then be in the Me / Social Menu, right?

We've been tossing Empathy's "Contact List" all across the DE from A to B to
C with no successful integration of human contacts into our DE until even
today!
i can't even dock the Contact List to anything, even if i wanted to. Who can
help me with enabling docking and snapping for this window?

Now, whatever happened to "Ubuntu", which means "humanity" after all, if i
may inquire?
For Maverick, we are supposed to integrate human beings better, as Jono
suggested in his blogpost here: [2]..
Upstream is doing this quite well by finally introducing "Folks" [3] to
Telepathy (hooray!!), after adopting the promising "People" project was
cancelled IIRC, and meta contact capable "Soylent" didn't quite happen
either...

SOCIAL FROM THE START
There's a blueprint for a global social API for Maverick [4] as
Jan-Christoph hinted a while ago ;)
Perhaps this blueprint will be ready for a review after this discussion
reveals some "low hanging fruit"..
This problem is much older than the meta contacts bug on empathy [5]..

Points in this topic that i think deserve more opinions:

* unified contacts for all social apps (Telepathy: Folks)
* menu or interactive list showing those online (Folks in Empathy)
* show offline contacts, if i pinned them favourites (pin like in Tomboy
menu)
* show offline contacts that match my FAYT search on top of list (perhaps
with a seperator before the actual list)
* show thumbs for real people
* offer single click menu with "send email", "chat", "visit [URL/blog],
"send SMS", "call"
* allow dragging of multiple contacts
* drag contacts onto the desktop to create vcards
* allow docking/snapping and autohiding Contact List to the right desktop
edge
* drop Gwibber from Ubuntu 10.10, as we dropped Gimp from 10.04
* ignore Mark's use case, he might need an extra AI to handle hi

Re: [Ayatana] Default to single click to open files and folders

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 23:01, Alex Lourie  wrote:

>
> On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 7:51 PM, Frederik Nnaji 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> User testing has revealed that single click comes more intuitively to
>> users than double click.
>>
>>
> Would you care to elaborate on that? What user testing?
>

okay you caught me here.
i shoulda said "allegedly" somewhere in the line, since i was quoting this
very unholy thread:

On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 08:34, Akshat Jain  wrote:

> At first I was against this idea but after trying Kubuntu I am in favour of
> this idea,It only took me a few minutes to be adjusted.I tried this 10
> people(old people and 4-6 year old children)who had never used computers and
> they were comfortable with single click but had problems with Double-Click
> with many took as long as 1 hour to learn the double click(especially old
> people).So overall single click is a win for Ubuntu.


i feel you on the double click thing, i've been hating single click ever
since the ancient days of NCSA's raping through Microsoft.

Imagining what hidden treasures i'd find sooner upon my first time using a
computer, i'd yet rather think of secondary click, which is way more
discoverable.
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Re: [Ayatana] Criticism of Client Side Window Decorations

[Frederik Nnaji]

errrmm ... whow, Dylan!

On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 23:59, Dylan McCall  wrote:

> I was really looking forward to client-side decorations, but Martin has
> pretty thoroughly changed my tune. I think there's a different problem
> that needs to be solved: there is a doomed effort right now to make
> window decorations feel like part of window clients even though the two
> know nothing of each other. For example, window decorations are fixed to
> the edges of the client area no matter what, as if they need to be. In
> some themes (like Lucid's Light themes) they apply some quirky tricks to
> blend with the client area.
>
> Perhaps more problems can be solved if window borders Stop Intruding on
> window clients.
>
> A few loosely related thoughts spring to mind:
>
>  * It would be really super if someone would implement unobtrusive
>window manager controls that appear (with lots of alpha channel
>goodness) when the mouse reaches particular hotspots at the edge
>of the client area, maybe after being inside the client area.
>That would lead to a valid solution to Bug #160311
>(https://launchpad.net/bugs/160311), among other things, and
>it's a requirement for client-side decorations to work at all
>well.
>  * Why does a title bar have to be at the top of its respective
>window? This causes a serious usability problem when a window is
>Alt+Dragged above the screen: only the bottom part is visible,
>so it's impossible to drag it back unless you know how it got
>there. I actually am quite surprised this isn't a common issue.
>Why can't the title bar detach from the window and stay visible
>regardless of where the client has gone?
>  * A window “title bar”, with goodies like the Close and Minimize
>buttons (and soon, I guess, Windicators!), serves a distinct
>role: it helps the user organize a window client quickly and
>easily. These are proxies; helpers; tools. I think “title bar”
>is a misnomer.
>  * A window client, in the Linux desktop, cannot trust the window
>manager to do anything. As a result, we have a unique
>arrangement where window decorations rarely introduce new
>functionality that can't be achieved through the client. (Beyond
>managing windows themselves, of course. The client can't be
>reliably dragged to move it around. Now THERE is something that
>could be patched in all the toolkits. If we want touch support,
>it's a necessity).
>  * Items in the window list mimic window title bars. (Title, icon -
>that's how they typically look!). Windicators could fit in there
>really neatly. We're moving to a world where the window manager
>handles more of the surrounding desktop (eg: gnome-shell), so
>these things could get cool.
>

you saved many people a lot of saliva here.
this is beautiful, much respect for your thoughts on an overlayed dynamic
titlebar !!!
in 2010 it's about time we think about these decorations thoroughly.

so much space just wasted, i think application designers will know
themselves where to place the name of their app, if they made it well and
are proud of it. we don't really need a title bar for that.

the window controls are also devoid of utility as you pointed out for the
ALT-drag case..
this is yet another exciting thread ;)

let's see what phantasies arise next..
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Re: [Ayatana] dx-m-indicator-sound feedback

[Frederik Nnaji]

1 master slider per audio interface seems reasonable to me.
I can't think of any other exceptional case outside VoIP, i which i'd
automate a behaviour like the headphone / speaker autonomy suggested.

On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 00:16, Sense Hofstede  wrote:

> Standards are awesome. Use them.
>

+1

Most people only have one slider, and you expect to be able to quickly lower
> the volume in general using your scroll wheel.


Most people only have only one audio interface, too.
Forcing "common" behaviour to a specifically modified use case often leads
to strong difficulties. Whoever chooses to install an additional audio
device, such as USB headsets for VoIP calls, should have an extra option to
control these independently.
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Re: [Ayatana] "Intuitive"

[Frederik Nnaji]

Grüß Gott, Thorsten ;)


> 2010/5/14 Thorsten Wilms :
>  > This is totally unrealistic. Humans can't even walk or talk without
> > learning.
> >
> > Some say the nipple would be the only intuitive interface. I've been
> > told that not even breast feeding just works on first try ...
>

you're a real entertainer ;)

In all your disregard for the term, let me suggest you start seeing it as a
romantic metaphor.
I think we all benefit from this little excourse into official nomenclature,
thanks ;)

In future i will try not to use this word carelessly but still intuitively.
Intuition is the fastest way someone can consciously make a correct
decision.
Since this is valid for humans, the AI guys will definitely pick up on this
for machines also, now that we have Memristors and Virtual Swarm
Intelligence out there..
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