[Ayatana] Dash "More Apps" and "Find Files" options are redundant

[Matt Richardson]

With the inclusion of the Applications and Files lenses in the dash, the 
two buttons "More Apps" and "Find Files" on the initial view of the dash 
are somewhat redundant.


Perhaps a better use of these buttons would be "Office Apps" and 
"Settings", with each behaving similar to the "Media Apps" or "Internet 
Apps" buttons.


This would make it easier for new users to find commonly used software 
(office) and find how to change settings.


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Re: [Ayatana] Dash "More Apps" and "Find Files" options are redundant

[Thibaut Brandscheid]

2011/10/21 Matt Richardson 

> With the inclusion of the Applications and Files lenses in the dash, the
> two buttons "More Apps" and "Find Files" on the initial view of the dash are
> somewhat redundant.
>
> Perhaps a better use of these buttons would be "Office Apps" and
> "Settings", with each behaving similar to the "Media Apps" or "Internet
> Apps" buttons.
>

++ for  'Office Apps'
I think the second should be 'Dash Settings' if we get some in Precise else
'System Settings'
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Re: [Ayatana] New design: Opening applications and documents automatically at login

[Paulo J. S. Silva]

Yes, being able to save the current session would great, specially if
it not only remember which applications are open, but also their
location (which virtual desktop, position, if they are maximized,
etc.)

Gnome used to have that, but it was removed many iterations ago.

Paulo

Em Qui, 2011-10-20 às 18:37 +, Omar B. escreveu:
> I like where things are going here, but wouldn't it be better to have a 
> "remember session(s)" option (currently xfce, kde, etc. have it), also kde 
> has "Activities" which is really great feature, is like having multiple user 
> sessions with its own preferences, but very easy to manage, add , delete, 
> stop ,etc.
> 
> 
> > From: eapa...@gmail.com
> > Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 12:50:57 -0400
> > To: m...@canonical.com
> > CC: Ayatana@lists.launchpad.net; seb...@ubuntu.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ayatana] New design: Opening applications and documents 
> > automatically at login
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas  
> > wrote:
> > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > > Hi folks
> > >
> > > For some people, it is useful to open particular applications or
> > > documents every time they log in.
> > >
> > > (For example, every day when I log in at work, I launch XChat,
> > > Firefox, and a time sheet text document.)
> > >
> > > Every version of Ubuntu has had a "Startup Applications" settings
> > > window for choosing applications to open automatically at login.
> > >
> > > Gnome 3 in Ubuntu 11.10 now has an integrated System Settings window
> > > (gnome-control-center). But it does not yet integrate these particular
> > > settings.
> > >
> > > So, yesterday I finished a design for these settings in the System
> > > Settings window. My design extends the existing "User Accounts" panel;
> > > this avoids adding an extra panel, lets administrators troubleshoot
> > > login items for other accounts, and lets them set items for the guest
> > > account. It also allows opening files, not just applications.
> > >
> > > I'd appreciate your feedback on the design.
> > > 
> >
> > Very nice, I quite like it!
> >
> > One thing that I would like it to support is mounting partitions. I
> > have my music on a separate internal NTFS partition so that it can be
> > accessed by Windows. At the moment, the first thing I have to do when
> > I log in is browse to that folder in Nautilus so that it gets mounted
> > (by gvfs?). The only way currently to have a partition auto-mount on
> > login is via /etc/fstab, which affects all users and requires root
> > access.
> >
> > An "Add Partition..." option below the "Add Shell Command..." option
> > would be absolutely fantastic. (Obviously the label and location are
> > subject to change).
> >
> > Just my two cents,
> > Evan
> >
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Re: [Ayatana] Dash "More Apps" and "Find Files" options are redundant

[Josh Strawbridge]

yea with the lenses included in dash it finally makes all of those buttons
redundant with the possible exception of shotwell.
the whole initial dash view should be reworked.

there's a firefox button on the launcher by default, chromium was added to
my launcher.
files lens at the bottom of dash,
apps lens at the bottom of dash,
e-mail is in the top panel,
any media app i use is on my launcher/opened automatically with certain file
types/ or isn't used enough for me to care if there even is a media apps
button
music is on my launcher, in my sound menu indicator, or opens with file
types
internet apps... chat and gwibber are in the top panel. firefox on my
launcher e-mail in the top panel.  leaving alternate chat programs/torrent
stuff?
that leaves shotwell. i like shotwell but i don't use it. the button is
useless for me and anyone else who doesn't use shotwell.
-- 
Josh Strawbridge
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Re: [Ayatana] Dash "More Apps" and "Find Files" options are redundant

[Matt Richardson]

Another potential would be to have the dash initial view show large 
icons for other lenses, followed by small icons for each of the 
application categories.


The application categories would address the bugbear of some users who 
transition from gnome 2 in that opening applications by category (as in 
the old style gnome 2 menu) using the mouse now requires the user to 
click the dash, click the applications lense, click filter results, 
click the category they want to view and then click the application (5 
clicks compared to the old style menu of 2 clicks). If the categories 
were shown on the dash it would reduce this to 3 clicks (dash > category 
> application)


Thoughts?
Matt

On 21/10/11 10:59, Matt Richardson wrote:
With the inclusion of the Applications and Files lenses in the dash, 
the two buttons "More Apps" and "Find Files" on the initial view of 
the dash are somewhat redundant.


Perhaps a better use of these buttons would be "Office Apps" and 
"Settings", with each behaving similar to the "Media Apps" or 
"Internet Apps" buttons.


This would make it easier for new users to find commonly used software 
(office) and find how to change settings.


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[Ayatana] dash home redesign

[Josh Strawbridge]

the dash home is one of my only 3 gripes about unity in 11.10. i found unity
usable but not likable in 11.04 but i find with the added polish it's
somewhat enjoyable now.

my problem with dash home is that it isn't very useful the way it is.
 almost everything on the dash home is as or more available elsewhere by
default.
i believe shotwell is the only thing that is actually made easier to get to
in the current dash home but not everyone uses it so it could still be a
useless button.

things are as available or more available at...
firefox on the launcher, music in the sound indicator menu, e-mail has an
indicator, in dash lens buttons are the same as the apps and files buttons,
media apps... mine either open with the file type, are on my launcher, are
in the indicators (sound menu), or aren't used enough to warren't having
quick access to them over other things i don't have quick access to.
internet apps... web browser is on the launcher and already in the dash
home, chat and gwibber are in the indicators on the panel, alternates to
empathy and gwibber are likely set to run on start up by people who use
them.

i saw someone else's suggestion about adding text with the lens icons to
tell what it is and moving them to the top.  i say at least move them to the
top. either just under or to the side of the search bar. placement is the
biggest reason i use the big dash buttons over the lens buttons. also it'd
be nice if you had the option of adding text to go with the icons or if you
were able to replace them with text.

i think the dash home should have a "pinned" apps section up top with the
current bottom 4 buttons pinned to it by default (default web browser, music
player, shotwell, and e-mail client) but the user should have the ability to
remove those and pin whatever they want.
this seems redundant to the launcher but there are things that people don't
use enough to want it crowding their launcher or desktop or to even show up
in frequent use stuff but would still like to have more readily available.
those apps don't always fall into the media or internet app categories.
 everything i use in the internet or media apps categories is more available
elsewhere so i never use those buttons.  they're useless to me.
the less crowded a desktop is, the better it looks. that includes the
launcher.   i've got about 8 things i'd rather not have on my launcher but
put there because it's more convenient than having to let go of my
mouse/wacom tablet stylus to type in the search each time i need it.

next i think a commonly used apps section that excludes the launcher apps
and the pinned apps.
my commonly used section inside the dash has been entirely useless from the
start because it's always filled with things i have on my launcher or things
that i was running with sudo from a terminal so i could edit certain files
during various set ups. things that i generally don't use when i'm not
setting something up.

lastly a recently used files section for easy access to files they might be
working on.
i want to say this particular recently used section should probably exclude
certain image file types since they don't usually open by default in image
editing programs so they're probably not something that's being actively
worked on.  then again i guess some users might rather have those file types
there so maybe it's a bad suggestion.

so basically move the lens icons close to the search bar, add a "pinned"
apps section, put the frequently used section on the home page that excludes
things on the launcher and "pinned" app section, and put a recently used
files section on the home page.
this would enable people easy access to things not on their launcher but
still want readily available, their frequently used non-readily available
apps, and recent files they might be working on.
it would be a big improvement in the usefulness of the dash home and cause
it to be tailored a bit more to each user's individual needs instead of just
trying to cover the normal use stuff.
-- 
Josh Strawbridge
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Re: [Ayatana] Dash "More Apps" and "Find Files" options are redundant

[Omar B .]

Yes, that is true we now need 5 clicks.
And if you close and reopen the dash that is another 2 or 3 extra clicks.
 
Anyway the question is what is that users are looking for ?
 
the dash has lots more potential to be easier and smarter than the old menus...
 
-Example1: Is it a recently installed app ? Then the recently installed could 
appear when you open dash (right in the main dash screen where new users will 
spot it quickly and not just in the apps lens. Do they even know or need to 
know what is an "apps lens").
 
-Example2: Is it an app that the user uses on a regular basis but prefers not 
to have it cluttering the launcher or visible to everyone (like work stuff)? I 
think the user should be able to customize the dash shortcuts from a 
configuration screen. 
 
Linuxmint has a configuration utility that lets you config those shortcuts in 
the menu. They dont want inexperience users to mess up the menu either, so the 
configuration is separate.

mint menu config example:
http://slashsarc.com/tag/linux-mint/
 
The "Main dash screen" indeed needs work and some customization to become and 
practical. Search should not be used for everything, but for when the user 
really needs to. Search is great, but it has always been for when users cant 
find things easily, is not something they want to do every 5 minutes for the 
same thing.
 
That reminds me about search history...
 
Configuring shortcuts will always be essential. I for one dont want to search 
for this mailing list everytime, it's why i added it to my bookmarks/shortcuts 
and to my mail, which is faster and takes less effort than doing another search.
 


> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 18:19:01 +0100
> From: m.richardson.1...@hotmail.co.uk
> To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Dash "More Apps" and "Find Files" options are redundant
>
> Another potential would be to have the dash initial view show large
> icons for other lenses, followed by small icons for each of the
> application categories.
>
> The application categories would address the bugbear of some users who
> transition from gnome 2 in that opening applications by category (as in
> the old style gnome 2 menu) using the mouse now requires the user to
> click the dash, click the applications lense, click filter results,
> click the category they want to view and then click the application (5
> clicks compared to the old style menu of 2 clicks). If the categories
> were shown on the dash it would reduce this to 3 clicks (dash > category
> > application)
>
> Thoughts?
> Matt
>
> On 21/10/11 10:59, Matt Richardson wrote:
> > With the inclusion of the Applications and Files lenses in the dash,
> > the two buttons "More Apps" and "Find Files" on the initial view of
> > the dash are somewhat redundant.
> >
> > Perhaps a better use of these buttons would be "Office Apps" and
> > "Settings", with each behaving similar to the "Media Apps" or
> > "Internet Apps" buttons.
> >
> > This would make it easier for new users to find commonly used software
> > (office) and find how to change settings.
> >
> > ___
> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> > Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >
> >
>
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Re: [Ayatana] Reconsidering default font substitutions

[gespert...@gmail.com]

Metrics is far more important than looks for a replacement typography
for a simple reason: If metrics are different, then documents length
won't match.
A trained user (or at least trained enough to tell the difference
between two serif or sans serif fonts) will know that Arial looks
different and will get Arial for his/her documents. And if you search
for "Arial" in the Software Centre you'll get the MS core fonts
installer.
But let's imagine for a moment what would happen if the font is
replaced with a look-alike with different metrics:
What fitted exactly in the page and took n pages now doesn't fit
anymore and takes more or less pages than it should.
Result? "Ubuntu has nice fonts, they look exactly like windows... but
Libreoffice sucks because it breaks your word documents"

Typography is a tricky question, but I'm convinced that metrics is
better than looks if we need a replacement font. Of course, metrics
AND looks would be better, but that needs somebody working on it (and
dodging possible copyright claims). :-)

2011/10/20 topdownjimmy :
> [Apologies if this is a duplicate message; I sent this first with an
> email address other than the one in my Launchpad profile.]
>
> I'm not positive that desktop typography falls within the scope of
> Ayatana, but this list is my best guess.
>
> Currently in /etc/fonts/conf.d/30-metric-aliases.conf (and for as long
> as I can remember in Ubuntu), Liberation Sans is specified as an
> acceptable alternative for Arial, and Liberation Serif as an
> acceptable alternative for Times New Roman. The historical reason for
> this is that the Liberation set of typefaces was specifically designed
> to be metric-compatible with its corresponding Microsoft fonts (Arial,
> Times New Roman, and Courier New).
> (http://press.redhat.com/2007/05/09/liberation-fonts/)
>
> However, it's my opinion that having this metric-compatibility is not
> as important as having similar letterforms. Especially if we are
> paying special attention to aesthetics in 12.04
> (http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/810), I think these font
> substitutions are something we should reconsider. It seems as though
> these font configuration files haven't been updated in a while, as
> they include some fonts that aren't even included in Ubuntu anymore
> (e.g., Thorndale AMT, Albany AMT). FreeSans and FreeSerif, as opposed
> to the Liberation set, are almost indistinguishable from Arial and
> Times.
>
> A major reason that I think this change would be important is the web;
> so many sites are now calling for Arial/Helvetica that in Ubuntu are
> rendered in Liberation Sans, and to someone coming from Windows or Mac
> OS, this can look very alien. Sites like Google/Gmail just don't look
> *right*, and this lends itself to the common belief that "Linux has
> bad fonts." This becomes even more important as so much of what people
> do on a computer now is within the browser.
>
> Another shortcoming of the current font config files, as regards the
> web, is that there are no substitutes defined for many common fonts
> called for in stylesheets -- Lucida Grande/Sans, Georgia (!!),
> Verdana, Tahoma, etc. Facebook, in particular, has a font stack that
> calls for Lucida first, Tahoma second, and Verdana third. A new Ubuntu
> user who goes to Facebook for the first time will see *none* of these
> alternatives. (Although, in truth, they will most likely see DejaVu
> Sans, which is a "close enough" approximation of Verdana, as far as
> free fonts go. Still, it will be jarring not to see some variant of
> Lucida.)
>
> In fact, there are many substitutions that could be taking place, but
> currently are not. There are many free font packages that could supply
> much greater versatility for fonts on the web:
>
> * Georgia -  Bitstream Charter
> * Verdana - DejaVu Sans
> * Lucida - Luxi Sans [xfonts-scalable]
> * Gill Sans - Gillius [ttf-adf-gillius]
> * Baskerville - Baskervald [ttf-adf-baskervald]
> * Franklin Gothic - UnDotum [ttf-unfonts-core]
> * Futura / Century Gothic - URW Gothic Uralic [ttf-uralic], Beteckna
> [ttf-beteckna], or Universalis [ttf-adf-universalis]
> * Palatino - URW Palladio L Roman
> * Goudy Bookletter - Goudy Bookletter [ttf-goudybookletter]
>
> Granted, adding these font packages to the default install would
> increase the size of the install disc, and I haven't done the math,
> but some of them are already included, and a couple of the others
> aren't very large at all. Also, there might be licensing issues that
> make some of these packages not technically "free," but I haven't
> researched that.
>
> Things *do* look more "authentic" with the msttcorefonts package
> installed, but that is, of course, not free, and thus shouldn't be
> included on the install disc.
>
> Finally, the default serif and sans-serif fonts in Firefox are set to
> DejaVu Sans and DejaVu Serif; this is also strange, since in Windows
> they are Arial and Times New Roman, which bear little similarity to
> the DejaVu fam