Re: [Ayatana] Unity with window-centric launcher
Are you guys at UDS? I wouldn't mind having an informal session/chat about app/windows centricity & management. On 08/05/11 01:45, Ed Lin wrote: On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 9:07 PM, Toki Tahmid wrote: This is NOT a suggestion to turn launcher window-centric, just a thread to discuss how it'd be. Essentially a window-centric launcher is an oxymoron because "launch" always means "application", but read on. On 7 May 2011 23:06, Toki Tahmid wrote: I don't know why everyone's making an assumption that I suggest something like preview of Windows 7's taskbar, but I want to make it clear it's just an example. I'm not making any assumptions, please read more closely. I brought up the windows 7 task bar because it's the only mainstream implementation of a fusion of taskbar and dock. However as I pointed out in the default configuration it is actually a plain app-centric launcher and only has secondary window-centric elements. Much closer comes the non-default win7 taskbar that has app-launcher icons that expand to window-icons which are grouped by application. One step is probably missing though, see this mockup http://i.imgur.com/YwMeg.png from http://pastehtml.com/view/1e1uiox.html I think that's the best implementation of taskbar meats dock offering all functions of both without sacrificing too much. But I'm not sure that's what you after. You are asking for a primary window-centric launcher. That doesn't exist, it's not possible to do without turning the launcher into something else, i.e. back into a taskbar. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity with window-centric launcher
I'm afraid I'm not one of the attendees of UDS. On 8 May 2011 15:24, Pippa Kyle wrote: > Are you guys at UDS? > > I wouldn't mind having an informal session/chat about app/windows > centricity & management. > > > On 08/05/11 01:45, Ed Lin wrote: > >> On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 9:07 PM, Toki Tahmid wrote: >> >>> This is NOT a suggestion to turn launcher window-centric, just a thread >>> to >>> discuss how it'd be. >>> >> Essentially a window-centric launcher is an oxymoron because "launch" >> always means "application", but read on. >> >> On 7 May 2011 23:06, Toki Tahmid wrote: >>> I don't know why everyone's making an assumption that I suggest something like preview of Windows 7's taskbar, but I want to make it clear it's just an example. >>> I'm not making any assumptions, please read more closely. >> >> I brought up the windows 7 task bar because it's the only mainstream >> implementation of a fusion of taskbar and dock. However as I pointed >> out in the default configuration it is actually a plain app-centric >> launcher and only has secondary window-centric elements. Much closer >> comes the non-default win7 taskbar that has app-launcher icons that >> expand to window-icons which are grouped by application. >> One step is probably missing though, see this mockup >> http://i.imgur.com/YwMeg.png >> from http://pastehtml.com/view/1e1uiox.html >> >> I think that's the best implementation of taskbar meats dock offering >> all functions of both without sacrificing too much. >> But I'm not sure that's what you after. You are asking for a primary >> window-centric launcher. That doesn't exist, it's not possible to do >> without turning the launcher into something else, i.e. back into a >> taskbar. >> >> ___ >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana >> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >> > > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ayatana] don't allow windows to show up in 2 workspaces
I would like to see a way to prevent windows that are past the edge of a workspace from showing up in other workspaces. Or if I am missing this option somewhere, i apologize and would someone point me to it? I think in the past it worked with multiple desktops (one viewspace per desktop) but I haven't been able to get that to work using with unity, the pager, and my 3x3 grid of workspaces. I usu drag a window off the edge to get it out of the way. But having it show up in the next workspace also puts it in the way. Thanks! ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity with window-centric launcher
On Sun, May 8, 2011 at 1:24 PM, Pippa Kyle wrote: > Are you guys at UDS? > > I wouldn't mind having an informal session/chat about app/windows centricity > & management. > No, I really just started taking more interest in the Ayatana discussions a few weeks ago and learned about UDS on too short notice. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Idea for improving visibility of running applications
But earlier when we discussed that option we came to the conclusion that it would make a very uninteresting and plain launcher. But I guess I could just change a few settings in the mockup to be able to test the result. I will look into that tomorrow. 2011/5/6 cmaglothin > I mean instead of "fade on hover" try using "fade til hover." > > In other words make the unused icons faded until one hovers over the > launcher. > > Or maybe even have the launcher in faded mode always and only highlight > those which have the cursor over them. > > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Niklas Rosenqvist < > niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> What do you mean by reversing the action? The fading? >> >> >> 2011/5/6 cmaglothin >> >>> Why don't you try reversing the action, just as Jamu says, fading does >>> seem a bit backwards. >>> >>> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 7:36 AM, Niklas Rosenqvist < >>> niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Since this doesn't seem to be the best solution for everyone I hope we can work together on making a new design sketch which works. I will try a few different approaches and I hope that people will pitch in with their own ideas. Thanks guys for your feedback! 2011/5/6 Jamu Kakar > Hi Niklas,, > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Niklas Rosenqvist > wrote: > > "But please tell me one reason why increasing the visibility of the > > background of running apps isn't just as good in terms of visibility > > with the added benefit of being always visible, not just on hover, > > i.e. more consistent and more usable." > > > > The reason for why I don't think that's such a good idea is because > there's > > a risk there will be too much going on on the launcher together with > > colorful icons, counters and progress bars. Therefore I believe the > solution > > is to tune down the noise and not add more, this will provide a > cleaner > > interface. > > I just finished my JS and HTML mockup and I feel that it works very > good in > > practice. Don't expect it to be completely bug free because I did it > quick > > and dirty to just have something to show you guys. It basically works > in all > > new browsers so feel free to try it out. Though if you click around > like > > crazy there's a chance the icons don't change as they should. > > Mockup: > > http://unity-mockup.nsrosenqvist.com/ > > Source: > > http://unity-mockup.nsrosenqvist.com/source/unity-mockup.zip > > Thanks for putting this together! Something I find a bit awkward with > Unity, in general, is that a number of things change as you move your > mouse. For example, in stock Unity the launcher slides around > (depending on whether you have a maximized window), the global menu > appears or disappears as you move your mouse near the top of the > screen, and the orange window outline around windows does weird things > when you move a window aroud. > > I find these behaviours rather confusing and distracting. The mockup > you've made adds to this noise. When you hover the launcher, it looks > like everything gets disabled and I wonder if I can really click the > icons... then when I mous away it comes back to life. I think it's > the opposite to what I expected. > > Anyway, it's great to be able to see an idea in action, thanks for > taking the time to do this. > > Thanks, > J. > ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> >> > ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity with window-centric launcher
2011/5/8 Ed Lin > I think that's the best implementation of taskbar meats dock offering > all functions of both without sacrificing too much. > But I'm not sure that's what you after. You are asking for a primary > window-centric launcher. That doesn't exist, it's not possible to do > without turning the launcher into something else, i.e. back into a > taskbar. > Let's attempt to think outside the box for a moment. The problem: clicking an application icon launches/restores the application in question. Clicking the icon again does *not* minimize the application, as most users would expect coming from the previous version of Ubuntu. The current approach: this is a dock, not a taskbar, and thus does not offer window management functions. A potential solution: - (if application is not launched) click launches application - (if a single application window exists) - - (if application window is not active/focused) click raises/maps/focuses the window - - (new: if application window is active/focused) click minimizes the window - (if multiple application windows exist) - - (if not in expose mode) click activates expose mode - - (new: if in expose mode) click minimizes all windows and leaves expose mode The two "new:" items form the proposal. The current dock has some minimal window management capabilities (raise/map, expose) - this is the simplest natural extension to those capabilities (minimize/unmap, remove expose) to achieve the functionality expected by the users. The dock remains an application-centric dock, without becoming a window-centric taskbar hybrid. Arguments/comments welcome! ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity with window-centric launcher
On Sun, May 8, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Stefanos A. wrote: > 2011/5/8 Ed Lin >> >> I think that's the best implementation of taskbar meats dock offering >> all functions of both without sacrificing too much. >> But I'm not sure that's what you after. You are asking for a primary >> window-centric launcher. That doesn't exist, it's not possible to do >> without turning the launcher into something else, i.e. back into a >> taskbar. > > Let's attempt to think outside the box for a moment. > > The problem: clicking an application icon launches/restores the application > in question. Clicking the icon again does *not* minimize the application, as > most users would expect coming from the previous version of Ubuntu. > The current approach: this is a dock, not a taskbar, and thus does not offer > window management functions. > A potential solution: > - (if application is not launched) click launches application > - (if a single application window exists) > - - (if application window is not active/focused) click raises/maps/focuses > the window > - - (new: if application window is active/focused) click minimizes the > window > - (if multiple application windows exist) > - - (if not in expose mode) click activates expose mode > - - (new: if in expose mode) click minimizes all windows and leaves expose > mode > The two "new:" items form the proposal. The current dock has some minimal > window management capabilities (raise/map, expose) - this is the simplest > natural extension to those capabilities (minimize/unmap, remove expose) to > achieve the functionality expected by the users. The dock remains an > application-centric dock, without becoming a window-centric taskbar hybrid. > Arguments/comments welcome! I quite like it. Evan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity with window-centric launcher
This solution was already proposed. See https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/comments/58 I think that there is nothing more to discusse about this. It's already obvious that the minimize function is a good idea and it's expected by a lot of users. Beside this, IMO, the best solution is already proposed. What we need to do now is wait. The UDS-O will occur this week and I'm almost sure that this will be one of the points of discussion. And I believe this solution will be implemented for Oneiric. 2011/5/8 Evan Huus > On Sun, May 8, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Stefanos A. wrote: > > 2011/5/8 Ed Lin > >> > >> I think that's the best implementation of taskbar meats dock offering > >> all functions of both without sacrificing too much. > >> But I'm not sure that's what you after. You are asking for a primary > >> window-centric launcher. That doesn't exist, it's not possible to do > >> without turning the launcher into something else, i.e. back into a > >> taskbar. > > > > Let's attempt to think outside the box for a moment. > > > > The problem: clicking an application icon launches/restores the > application > > in question. Clicking the icon again does *not* minimize the application, > as > > most users would expect coming from the previous version of Ubuntu. > > The current approach: this is a dock, not a taskbar, and thus does not > offer > > window management functions. > > A potential solution: > > - (if application is not launched) click launches application > > - (if a single application window exists) > > - - (if application window is not active/focused) click > raises/maps/focuses > > the window > > - - (new: if application window is active/focused) click minimizes the > > window > > - (if multiple application windows exist) > > - - (if not in expose mode) click activates expose mode > > - - (new: if in expose mode) click minimizes all windows and leaves > expose > > mode > > The two "new:" items form the proposal. The current dock has some minimal > > window management capabilities (raise/map, expose) - this is the simplest > > natural extension to those capabilities (minimize/unmap, remove expose) > to > > achieve the functionality expected by the users. The dock remains an > > application-centric dock, without becoming a window-centric taskbar > hybrid. > > Arguments/comments welcome! > > I quite like it. > > Evan > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ayatana] Unity, menus and large screens
G'day Guys, I decided to join the Ayatana mailing list so I could help provide feedback or ideas regarding Unity. Firstly I should say that while I was initially surprised (possibly shocked) by the changes, I quickly grew to enjoy them. However, unfortunately there is one issue, which may be specific to my circumstances. I have a large monitor (30 inches) running at a high resolution. I am always opening multiple apps and positioning them on the screen in various positions (which the new shortcuts for window positioning make real simple). As such the distance from an application to the menu can be quite large. This affects me not just in the time to move the mouse, but also having to adjust my head to look from one position to another. Now remember my screen is 30 inches, so the distance between the application border and the start of the menu can exceed 20 inches (I haven't done exact measurements, but can do if people would like some empirical data) . I find myself having to adjust my head position just to look at the menu in these situations. Even if I have two documents open side by side, the fact that the menu is the full width of the window away is annoying because I have to look away from the document to determine the menu. This is also frustrating with tools like Inkscape and The Gimp where I'm not 100% familiar with various options (weaning myself away from Adobe products) and need to browse the menus to find the item that I'm looking for. Now if I was running full screen then I wouldn't have a problem (I never do because any window other than a game full screen just looks stupid on my monitor), or if I was on a monitor that is only 20 inches (or so) then I don't think it would be as big an issue. So an option or maybe some intelligence as to when the menu repositions. I'm not sure what the design goals where in placing the menu separate to the application (other than saving screen space, which for me is not a problem), it's not as if people are following the ribbon approach to tool bars which reduces the need for menus greatly. Personally I'm not a big fan of menus due to the cost of use (mouse clicks, travel, etc). To me button bars, ribbon bars, etc are far more efficient. I just don't see the current Unity approach as working on large screens, until applications migrate away from their dependency on menus. Even then I would rather see menus activated by a border decoration. Thanks for your time. Cheers, James. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity, menus and large screens
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:19 AM, James Jenner wrote: > However, unfortunately there is one issue, which may be specific to my > circumstances. I have a large monitor (30 inches) running at a high > resolution. I am always opening multiple apps and positioning them on the > screen in various positions (which the new shortcuts for window positioning > make real simple). ... > Personally I'm not a big fan of menus due to the cost of use (mouse clicks, > travel, etc). To me button bars, ribbon bars, etc are far more efficient. I > just don't see the current Unity approach as working on large screens, until > applications migrate away from their dependency on menus. Even then I would > rather see menus activated by a border decoration. This is a reoccurring theme here on the list and I completely agree with you. You could turn the "global menu" off (so it gets put back into each window) by executing this command: echo "export UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=0" >> ~/.bashrc You'll have to log out for it to take effect. Hope you don't mind the now useless panel at the top taking up your screen estate ;-) For alternatives to the global and "classic" menus please see this discussion: [Ayatana] Ideas for Unity Design Tweaks ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity, menus and large screens
> This is a reoccurring theme here on the list and I completely agree with > you. > You could turn the "global menu" off (so it gets put back into each > window) by executing this command: > echo "export UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=0" >> ~/.bashrc > You'll have to log out for it to take effect. > Are all these environment variables documented anywhere? Cheers Jason Taylor -- "Weekends don't count unless you spend them doing something completely pointless. " - Calven ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
