Re: [Ayatana] Merging libindicate into libnotify

[Matthew Paul Thomas]

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Conscious User wrote on 31/03/11 18:57:
>...
> In Natty, the Ubuntu One item was moved from the Me Menu from
> the Messaging Menu. Was this agreed on by the design team?

Not as far as I know. I reported a bug about it that was marked Invalid.


After that, I discussed it with the Ubuntu One tech lead. I suggested
that Ubuntu One use its own indicator menu, which glows when there are
share invitations, and otherwise just animates slowly when syncing. As
long as it's in the messaging menu it can't show sync progress, without
being present in the launcher too -- which both consumes a lot of space
in the launcher for something that really isn't that important, and
means Ubuntu One status is being shown in two (or one-and-a-half)
different places on the screen.

> If it was, I think this is a good opportunity to wonder if
> there is still a point in trying to tie the Messaging Menu
> to messaging applications only.
> 
> Currently, the messaging menu is the desktop resource that
> covers that case where notifications require response but
> not necessarily immediate. The no-response case is covered
> by the bubbles and the immediate response case is covered
> by unfocused dialog boxes, or whatever will replace them
> (the never implemented "morphing boxes" in the specification
> or the IDO thingies that Empathy is using now) in the future.
> 
> The existence of libindicate is something that has always
> bothered me. The not-necessarily-immediate-response case
> is a common scenario required by a significative number of
> applications, and requiring those applications to support
> an extra library (and thus extra patching for working in
> Ubuntu) is unpleasant.
> 
> Shouldn't this case be covered by the Notification Spec and
> each desktop offer a standard single mechanism for handling
> them, independently of the app? Shouldn't the Messaging Menu
> drop the "messaging app" requirement and become the standard
> Ubuntu mechanism for handling these kind of notifications?
>...

The idea that all non-immediate "notifications" should be grouped
together in a single place, regardless of topic, is very much like the
idea that progress for all long-running tasks should be grouped together
in a single place regardless of task. It's the kind of categorization
that may make perfect sense to engineers, but to others it risks looking
like a jumble of unrelated things.

One of the motivations behind the introduction of Notify OSD was to
encourage applications to use general-purpose notification systems less
often. Notifications of things are more helpful if they are closer to
those things, for example embedded in relevant windows.

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[Ayatana] create a keyboard shortcut for hiding/unhiding the Launcher?

[nick rundy]

Has this been considered? Seems it would be helpful for keyboard oriented folks 
to be able to hide/unhide the launcher via a keyboard shortcut. I can see this 
being used a lot in combination with the maximize-window command ctrl + alt + 
zero (especially on small displayed netbooks).
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Re: [Ayatana] create a keyboard shortcut for hiding/unhiding the Launcher?

[James Gifford]

If it's set to autohide in CCSM, you can get it to pop up again by hitting the 
Super key. (Windows Key). Is that what you're talking about?

Cheers, 
James Gifford
http://jamesrgifford.com

On Apr 1, 2011, at 8:03, nick rundy  wrote:

> Has this been considered? Seems it would be helpful for keyboard oriented 
> folks to be able to hide/unhide the launcher via a keyboard shortcut. I can 
> see this being used a lot in combination with the maximize-window command 
> ctrl + alt + zero (especially on small displayed netbooks).
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Re: [Ayatana] create a keyboard shortcut for hiding/unhiding the Launcher?

[James Gifford]

I'm not aware of anything like that. 

And in my experience (as a Netbook user), it's easier and better to run 
everything fullscreen - on a 10" Netbook, there's not much space. So my Natty 
launcher is on autohide. 

Cheers, 
James Gifford
http://jamesrgifford.com

On Apr 1, 2011, at 8:59, nick rundy  wrote:

> No. I was thinking of when the Launcher is set to "Never Hide" or "Dodge 
> Window" or "Dodge Active Window." Basically, it would be for users who like 
> the Launcher to always be present. But there are times when a maximized 
> window is needed, so the user hits ctrl + alt + zero. However, more room is 
> still needed (maybe user is on a small netbook screen and the webpage 
> requires so many pixels to get a decent presentation--I've read of people 
> having this problem when using Ubuntu Netbook Edition). So user hits the 
> keyboard shortcut to hide the Launcher. At a later point user can hit the 
> keyboard shortcut to unhide the Launcher again. This way user is not 
> dependent on the mouse to "push" the Launcher out of the way to get full 
> screen display for a maximized window. Having to "click-grab" a window and 
> move it around is kinda slow and inefficient when compared to just tapping a 
> quick keyboard shortcut. Plus it allows people who prefer to have the 
> Launcher "Never Hide" still be able to hide it in situations where a webpage 
> is not displaying correctly. The user may not want the Launcher to "Dodge" 
> windows but may need the ability to hide Launcher sometimes for display 
> reasons.
> 
>  
> 
> > CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> > From: ja...@jamesrgifford.com
> > Subject: Re: [Ayatana] create a keyboard shortcut for hiding/unhiding the 
> > Launcher?
> > Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 08:12:36 -0400
> > To: nru...@hotmail.com
> > 
> > If it's set to autohide in CCSM, you can get it to pop up again by hitting 
> > the Super key. (Windows Key). Is that what you're talking about?
> > 
> > Cheers, 
> > James Gifford
> > http://jamesrgifford.com
> > 
> > On Apr 1, 2011, at 8:03, nick rundy  wrote:
> > 
> > > Has this been considered? Seems it would be helpful for keyboard oriented 
> > > folks to be able to hide/unhide the launcher via a keyboard shortcut. I 
> > > can see this being used a lot in combination with the maximize-window 
> > > command ctrl + alt + zero (especially on small displayed netbooks).
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[Ayatana] Is the Minimize window-button really needed?

[nick rundy]

How do you guys feel about the idea of omitting the Minimize window-button? 
Especially for maximized windows, the panel has a lot going on and I'm thinking 
maybe it would be better to display just the Close and Maximize buttons. After 
all, the user can simply click the Launcher Icon to "minimize" that window, 
right? So the user isn't losing this capability. Plus middle-clicking on the 
top panel moves the active window out of the way. It seems like the Minimize 
window-button is redundant and omitting it will help reduce clutter on the top 
panel when a window is maximized.
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Re: [Ayatana] Is the Minimize window-button really needed? Yes, it is! Please let the user choose

[Bazon]

On 01.04.2011 15:31, nick rundy wrote:
How do you guys feel about the idea of omitting the Minimize 
window-button?
Please keep it. I use it very often as I like having only the windows 
non-minimized I currently use.
Especially for maximized windows, the panel has a lot going on and I'm 
thinking maybe it would be better to display just the Close and 
Maximize buttons. After all, the user can simply click the Launcher 
Icon to "minimize" that window, right?
Wrong, the launcher has no minimize feature. Neither a right click 
option, nor clicking the launcher the second time minimizes a window.
So the user isn't losing this capability. 

Yes, he is.
Plus middle-clicking on the top panel moves the active window out of 
the way. It seems like the Minimize window-button is redundant and 
omitting it will help reduce clutter on the top panel when a window is 
maximized.
Aaargh! I can't hear it any more! Reducing clutter is bad when you lose 
functionality.
Please keep the minimize button. There is really enough space in the 
title bar for it.

And there will be even more going on, when the windicators come.



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Re: [Ayatana] Is the Minimize window-button really needed?

[Marco Biscaro]

On Sex, 2011-04-01 at 09:31 -0400, nick rundy wrote:

> After all, the user can simply click the Launcher Icon to "minimize"
> that window, right? So the user isn't losing this capability.


When minimizing, you "say" to the window: get out my face, I need to do
something else and do not want you disturbing. And this can be done with
one click: the minimize button. It's always on window decoration, a
place that is easy to find and access.

Imagine the following situation: a big screen, with launcher auto
hiding. If I want to minimize a windows, all I have to do is click on
minimize button. But, if using your proposed solution, I'll need:


 1. Move the cursor to top-left edge of screen
 2. Find the icon that represents the window I want to minimize
 3. Click on it


Beside this, how to lead with multiple windows of the same program,
since there is just one launcher? Will the user need to focus the window
and click on launcher icon? But if he clicks on the icon again before
one window is minimized? What should happens?


  * The window should restore?
  * Another window of the same program should be shown?
  * Expose should start?
  * None of the above?


So, answering your question:

How do you guys feel about the idea of omitting the Minimize
window-button?

I didn't like the idea. My vote is to keep it where it is now.
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[Ayatana] Fw: Re: Is the Minimize window-button really needed?

[kevinlia...@gmail.com]

I'll sum it up in a few words. The removal of the minimize button is one of the 
most ridiculous things the Gnome3 team has done yet. 

While users have other ways to minimize the window, the "minimize" button still 
remains by far the most obvious. I think one of the potential pitfalls of Unity 
is thinking too deep about how WE are going to use it, but not thinking of what 
new Ubuntu users need. 


From: Marco Biscaro 
Date: Apr 1, 2011 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Is the Minimize window-button really needed?
To: nick rundy 
CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net


  
  


On Sex, 2011-04-01 at 09:31 -0400, nick rundy wrote:

After all, the user can simply click the Launcher Icon to 
"minimize" that window, right? So the user isn't losing this 
capability.


When minimizing, you "say" to the window: get out my face, I need to 
do something else and do not want you disturbing. And this can be done with one 
click: the minimize button. It's always on window decoration, a place that is 
easy to find and access.

Imagine the following situation: a big screen, with launcher auto hiding. If I 
want to minimize a windows, all I have to do is click on minimize button. But, 
if using your proposed solution, I'll need:


Move the cursor to top-left edge of screen
Find the icon that represents the window I want to minimize
Click on it


Beside this, how to lead with multiple windows of the same program, since there 
is just one launcher? Will the user need to focus the window and click on 
launcher icon? But if he clicks on the icon again before one window is 
minimized? What should happens?


The window should restore?
Another window of the same program should be shown?
Expose should start?
None of the above?


So, answering your question:

How do you guys feel about the idea of omitting the Minimize window-button?

I didn't like the idea. My vote is to keep it where it is now.



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Re: [Ayatana] Fw: Re: Is the Minimize window-button really needed?

[Ian Santopietro]

Maybe it works for GNOME, but nor for us. We still have a place for windows
to minimize to.

Plus, that's the only apparent way to minimize windows ATM. Clicking on the
launcher doesn't do it.

And, from an aesthetic standpoint, having three items on the window bass
better visual balance.
On Apr 1, 2011 9:31 AM, "kevinlia...@gmail.com" 
wrote:
>
> I'll sum it up in a few words. The removal of the minimize button is one
of the most ridiculous things the Gnome3 team has done yet.
>
> While users have other ways to minimize the window, the "minimize" button
still remains by far the most obvious. I think one of the potential pitfalls
of Unity is thinking too deep about how WE are going to use it, but not
thinking of what new Ubuntu users need. 
>
>
> From: Marco Biscaro 
> Date: Apr 1, 2011 11:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Is the Minimize window-button really needed?
> To: nick rundy 
> CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sex, 2011-04-01 at 09:31 -0400, nick rundy wrote:
>
> After all, the user can simply click the Launcher Icon to
"minimize" that window, right? So the user isn't losing this
capability.
>
>
> When minimizing, you "say" to the window: get out my face, I
need to do something else and do not want you disturbing. And this can be
done with one click: the minimize button. It's always on window decoration,
a place that is easy to find and access.
>
> Imagine the following situation: a big screen, with launcher auto hiding.
If I want to minimize a windows, all I have to do is click on minimize
button. But, if using your proposed solution, I'll need:
>
>
> Move the cursor to top-left edge of screen
> Find the icon that represents the window I want to minimize
> Click on it
>
>
> Beside this, how to lead with multiple windows of the same program, since
there is just one launcher? Will the user need to focus the window and click
on launcher icon? But if he clicks on the icon again before one window is
minimized? What should happens?
>
>
> The window should restore?
> Another window of the same program should be shown?
> Expose should start?
> None of the above?
>
>
> So, answering your question:
>
> How do you guys feel about the idea of omitting the Minimize
window-button?
>
> I didn't like the idea. My vote is to keep it where it is now.
>
>
>
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Re: [Ayatana] Merging libindicate into libnotify

[Conscious User]

> The idea that all non-immediate "notifications" should be grouped
> together in a single place, regardless of topic, is very much like the
> idea that progress for all long-running tasks should be grouped
> together in a single place regardless of task. It's the kind of
> categorization that may make perfect sense to engineers, but to others
> it risks looking like a jumble of unrelated things.

What are your thoughts on, for example, what Jockey, PolicyKit and File
Transfer currently do? They basically use an appindicator to persist,
just like Update Manager did in the past with the notification area.

Do you think this should be the standard procedure for all apps that
do not fit in the current categories (messaging and sound)?

If no, how should they be fixed? If yes, why not do something similar
for Update Manager instead of popping up the window?

> One of the motivations behind the introduction of Notify OSD was
> to encourage applications to use general-purpose notification systems
> less often. Notifications of things are more helpful if they are
> closer to those things, for example embedded in relevant windows.

Aren't the most common usage of notifications the situations where
relevant windows are *not* currently in sight, or when there is no
such thing as "relevant windows" at all?



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[Ayatana] Call for testing: Unity multitouch gestures

[Alex Launi]

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Call For Testing: Multitouch

Do you have multitouch hardware? A macbook with multitouch track pad? A
magic mouse? A super fancy touch screen laptop? Do you want to help
ensure users have an amazing and exhilarating multitouch experience?

We are looking for volunteers to test Unity's multitouch functionality.
The goal of this testing is to catch, and fix bugs before they reach a
major audience.

If you want to be part of the team you will need:

 1. A computer with some kind of multitouch hardware.
 2. A computer than can run Unity
 3. An Internet connection

If you want to take part in this adventure, go to:
  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Testing/Multitouch
and follow the detailed instructions.

Thanks for helping making Ubuntu even better!


- -- 
Alex Launi
Canonical Desktop Experience Team
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