Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

2024-10-31 Thread Josh Luthman 
The $300 OTDR has been accurate in the two? situations we've had to use
it.  It was between two HH in the first case (broken fiber we hit with a
tool) and the second stopped right at an intersection (ants ate fiber 30).

On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 12:42 PM Dev  wrote:

> We had a $300 OTDR. The only thing it didn’t do was estimate length very
> well if it worked at all.
>
> My friend asked how much money we’d save if we dug up the wrong lady’s
> yard to replace a fiber that wasn’t broken.
>
> Then we bought a Viavi, waited for a show discount. Now we can dig up the
> right lady’s lawn.
>
> On Oct 31, 2024, at 8:14 AM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> Metronet :P
>
> On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 11:12 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> Josh, which competitor? I've seen similar things out of MetroNet.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Josh Luthman" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 29, 2024 6:56:31 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations
>>
>> I thought the same thing.  I had to cancel their service after just a
>> week or two because streaming was absolutely a joke (looked to me like
>> their peering was full, couldn't get any kind of capacity beyond their
>> network).  They left this convenient wall plate with an APC bulkhead just
>> sitting here...
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 5:29 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> I have always wanted to connect a source of upstream light to my
>>> connection at home.  (Served by a competitor).  Wonder how long it would
>>> take to troubleshoot.  Especially if I made it randomly intermittent and on
>>> a timer.  Perhaps during the first minute of the superbowl or
>>> something...?  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Jason McKemie
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 29, 2024 3:05 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations
>>>
>>> I know Exfo has units with an optional PON port for connecting to a live
>>> on-net fiber and testing. Maybe this is more or less standard anymore, my
>>> current OTDR is a bit dated.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, October 29, 2024, Josh Luthman 
>>> wrote:
>>> > IDK what you mean by PON features unless you want an inline unit to
>>> watch the traffic.  Veex just came out with one that will do that.  I don't
>>> see the need, but it is cool.
>>> > We bought the one (or one like) Cassidy linked and then bought this
>>> second:
>>> >
>>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CW3B9ZM8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>>> >
>>> > Cassidy - get a super cheap/fast PON meter that just reads the light
>>> from the OLT rather than waiting for the OTDR to boot.  Or just clamp and
>>> see if there is light -
>>> https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Optical-Identifier-800-1700nm-Functions/dp/B09JLL6NPM/
>>> > On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 4:45 PM Cassidy B. Larson 
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> We’ve been getting these smaller OTDR/VFL/OPMs from Amazon for our
>>> field techs. This way they can see if there’s a problem with the drop at
>>> least. If it’s anything past that, the splicers with the fancier/costlier
>>> OTDRs get involved.  Price point is right and it does what they need it to
>>> do.
>>> >>
>>> https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Mini-Pro-Mulit-Function-5m-60Km-Dynamic/dp/B092LNWZ4Y/
>>> >>
>>> >> -c
>>> >>
>>> >> On Oct 29, 2024, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie <
>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>> >> Does anyone have any recommendations for an OTDR that won't break the
>>> bank but is reasonably easy to use? My Exfo just stopped powering up today,
>>> so evidently I'm in the market for a new one. The Exfo is about 14 years
>>> old, so I assume they've come a little ways since then. I don't need
>>> anything for super long distances, mainly just access, PON features are a
>>> plus. --
>>> >> AF mailing list
>>> >> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> AF mailing list
>>> >> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo

Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

2024-10-31 Thread chuck 
Still, length is not an exact science with OTDRs.  Especially if it is a long 
shot.  
Every fiber has a different index of refraction and velocity factor.  And these 
characteristics vary along the entire length of the fiber.
Then there is twist in the tube, wavering routes and slack loops etc.And 
there is also timebase accuracy, which varies with temperature...

So if you have gopher damage in the desert and the closest hand hole is 10 
miles away, you will have to dig and cut several times before you zero in on 
it.  


From: Dev 
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2024 10:39 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

We had a $300 OTDR. The only thing it didn’t do was estimate length very well 
if it worked at all. 

My friend asked how much money we’d save if we dug up the wrong lady’s yard to 
replace a fiber that wasn’t broken.

Then we bought a Viavi, waited for a show discount. Now we can dig up the right 
lady’s lawn.



  On Oct 31, 2024, at 8:14 AM, Josh Luthman  wrote:

  Metronet :P

  On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 11:12 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

Josh, which competitor? I've seen similar things out of MetroNet.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2024 6:56:31 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations


I thought the same thing.  I had to cancel their service after just a week 
or two because streaming was absolutely a joke (looked to me like their peering 
was full, couldn't get any kind of capacity beyond their network).  They left 
this convenient wall plate with an APC bulkhead just sitting here...

On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 5:29 PM  wrote:

  I have always wanted to connect a source of upstream light to my 
connection at home.  (Served by a competitor).  Wonder how long it would take 
to troubleshoot.  Especially if I made it randomly intermittent and on a timer. 
 Perhaps during the first minute of the superbowl or something...?  




  From: Jason McKemie 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2024 3:05 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

  I know Exfo has units with an optional PON port for connecting to a live 
on-net fiber and testing. Maybe this is more or less standard anymore, my 
current OTDR is a bit dated.

  On Tuesday, October 29, 2024, Josh Luthman  
wrote:
  > IDK what you mean by PON features unless you want an inline unit to 
watch the traffic.  Veex just came out with one that will do that.  I don't see 
the need, but it is cool.
  > We bought the one (or one like) Cassidy linked and then bought this 
second:
  > 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CW3B9ZM8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  >
  > Cassidy - get a super cheap/fast PON meter that just reads the light 
from the OLT rather than waiting for the OTDR to boot.  Or just clamp and see 
if there is light - 
https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Optical-Identifier-800-1700nm-Functions/dp/B09JLL6NPM/
  > On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 4:45 PM Cassidy B. Larson  
wrote:
  >>
  >> We’ve been getting these smaller OTDR/VFL/OPMs from Amazon for our 
field techs. This way they can see if there’s a problem with the drop at least. 
If it’s anything past that, the splicers with the fancier/costlier OTDRs get 
involved.  Price point is right and it does what they need it to do.
  >> 
https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Mini-Pro-Mulit-Function-5m-60Km-Dynamic/dp/B092LNWZ4Y/
  >>
  >> -c
  >>
  >> On Oct 29, 2024, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie 
 wrote:
  >> Does anyone have any recommendations for an OTDR that won't break the 
bank but is reasonably easy to use? My Exfo just stopped powering up today, so 
evidently I'm in the market for a new one. The Exfo is about 14 years old, so I 
assume they've come a little ways since then. I don't need anything for super 
long distances, mainly just access, PON features are a plus. --
  >> AF mailing list
  >> AF@af.afmug.com
  >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  >>
  >> --
  >> AF mailing list
  >> AF@af.afmug.com
  >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  > 


--
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  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  -- 
  AF mai

Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

2024-10-31 Thread chuck 
Yes, and then split the overlap or gap assuming you know what the span length 
really is or should be.  

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2024 11:51 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

Can you improve the accuracy by testing from both ends?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@go-mtc.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2024 12:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

 

Still, length is not an exact science with OTDRs.  Especially if it is a long 
shot.  

Every fiber has a different index of refraction and velocity factor.  And these 
characteristics vary along the entire length of the fiber.

Then there is twist in the tube, wavering routes and slack loops etc.And 
there is also timebase accuracy, which varies with temperature...

 

So if you have gopher damage in the desert and the closest hand hole is 10 
miles away, you will have to dig and cut several times before you zero in on 
it.  

 

 

From: Dev 

Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2024 10:39 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

 

We had a $300 OTDR. The only thing it didn’t do was estimate length very well 
if it worked at all. 

 

My friend asked how much money we’d save if we dug up the wrong lady’s yard to 
replace a fiber that wasn’t broken.

 

Then we bought a Viavi, waited for a show discount. Now we can dig up the right 
lady’s lawn.





  On Oct 31, 2024, at 8:14 AM, Josh Luthman  wrote:

   

  Metronet :P

   

  On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 11:12 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

Josh, which competitor? I've seen similar things out of MetroNet.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2024 6:56:31 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

I thought the same thing.  I had to cancel their service after just a week 
or two because streaming was absolutely a joke (looked to me like their peering 
was full, couldn't get any kind of capacity beyond their network).  They left 
this convenient wall plate with an APC bulkhead just sitting here...

 

On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 5:29 PM  wrote:

  I have always wanted to connect a source of upstream light to my 
connection at home.  (Served by a competitor).  Wonder how long it would take 
to troubleshoot.  Especially if I made it randomly intermittent and on a timer. 
 Perhaps during the first minute of the superbowl or something...?  


   

   

   

  From: Jason McKemie 

  Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2024 3:05 PM

  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

   

  I know Exfo has units with an optional PON port for connecting to a live 
on-net fiber and testing. Maybe this is more or less standard anymore, my 
current OTDR is a bit dated.

  On Tuesday, October 29, 2024, Josh Luthman  
wrote:
  > IDK what you mean by PON features unless you want an inline unit to 
watch the traffic.  Veex just came out with one that will do that.  I don't see 
the need, but it is cool.
  > We bought the one (or one like) Cassidy linked and then bought this 
second:
  > 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CW3B9ZM8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  >
  > Cassidy - get a super cheap/fast PON meter that just reads the light 
from the OLT rather than waiting for the OTDR to boot.  Or just clamp and see 
if there is light - 
https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Optical-Identifier-800-1700nm-Functions/dp/B09JLL6NPM/
  > On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 4:45 PM Cassidy B. Larson  
wrote:
  >>
  >> We’ve been getting these smaller OTDR/VFL/OPMs from Amazon for our 
field techs. This way they can see if there’s a problem with the drop at least. 
If it’s anything past that, the splicers with the fancier/costlier OTDRs get 
involved.  Price point is right and it does what they need it to do.
  >> 
https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Mini-Pro-Mulit-Function-5m-60Km-Dynamic/dp/B092LNWZ4Y/
  >>
  >> -c
  >>
  >> On Oct 29, 2024, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie 
 wrote:
  >> Does anyone have any recommendations for an OTDR that won't break the 
bank but is reasonably easy to use? My Exfo just stopped powering up today, so 
evidently I'm in the market for a new one. The Exfo is about 14 years old, so I 
assume they've come a little ways since then. I don't need anything for super 
long distances, mainly just access, PON features are a plus. --
  >> AF mailing list
  >>

Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

2024-10-31 Thread Ken Hohhof 
Can you improve the accuracy by testing from both ends?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@go-mtc.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2024 12:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

 

Still, length is not an exact science with OTDRs.  Especially if it is a long 
shot.  

Every fiber has a different index of refraction and velocity factor.  And these 
characteristics vary along the entire length of the fiber.

Then there is twist in the tube, wavering routes and slack loops etc.And 
there is also timebase accuracy, which varies with temperature...

 

So if you have gopher damage in the desert and the closest hand hole is 10 
miles away, you will have to dig and cut several times before you zero in on 
it.  

 

 

From: Dev 

Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2024 10:39 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

 

We had a $300 OTDR. The only thing it didn’t do was estimate length very well 
if it worked at all. 

 

My friend asked how much money we’d save if we dug up the wrong lady’s yard to 
replace a fiber that wasn’t broken.

 

Then we bought a Viavi, waited for a show discount. Now we can dig up the right 
lady’s lawn.





On Oct 31, 2024, at 8:14 AM, Josh Luthman mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> > wrote:

 

Metronet :P

 

On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 11:12 AM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

Josh, which competitor? I've seen similar things out of MetroNet.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  
Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP






  _  


From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2024 6:56:31 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

I thought the same thing.  I had to cancel their service after just a week or 
two because streaming was absolutely a joke (looked to me like their peering 
was full, couldn't get any kind of capacity beyond their network).  They left 
this convenient wall plate with an APC bulkhead just sitting here...

 

On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 5:29 PM  wrote:

I have always wanted to connect a source of upstream light to my connection at 
home.  (Served by a competitor).  Wonder how long it would take to 
troubleshoot.  Especially if I made it randomly intermittent and on a timer.  
Perhaps during the first minute of the superbowl or something...?  


 

 

 

From: Jason McKemie 

Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2024 3:05 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

 

I know Exfo has units with an optional PON port for connecting to a live on-net 
fiber and testing. Maybe this is more or less standard anymore, my current OTDR 
is a bit dated.

On Tuesday, October 29, 2024, Josh Luthman  wrote:
> IDK what you mean by PON features unless you want an inline unit to watch the 
> traffic.  Veex just came out with one that will do that.  I don't see the 
> need, but it is cool.
> We bought the one (or one like) Cassidy linked and then bought this second:
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CW3B9ZM8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>
> Cassidy - get a super cheap/fast PON meter that just reads the light from the 
> OLT rather than waiting for the OTDR to boot.  Or just clamp and see if there 
> is light - 
> https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Optical-Identifier-800-1700nm-Functions/dp/B09JLL6NPM/
> On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 4:45 PM Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:
>>
>> We’ve been getting these smaller OTDR/VFL/OPMs from Amazon for our field 
>> techs. This way they can see if there’s a problem with the drop at least. If 
>> it’s anything past that, the splicers with the fancier/costlier OTDRs get 
>> involved.  Price point is right and it does what they need it to do.
>> https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Mini-Pro-Mulit-Function-5m-60Km-Dynamic/dp/B092LNWZ4Y/
>>
>> -c
>>
>> On Oct 29, 2024, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie 
>>  wrote:
>> Does anyone have any recommendations for an OTDR that won't break the bank 
>> but is reasonably easy to use? My Exfo just stopped powering up today, so 
>> evidently I'm in the market for a new one. The Exfo is about 14 years old, 
>> so I assume they've come a little ways since then. I don't need anything for 
>> super long distances, mainly just access, PON features are a plus. --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 

 


  _  


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Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

2024-10-31 Thread Josh Luthman 
Metronet :P

On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 11:12 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Josh, which competitor? I've seen similar things out of MetroNet.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Luthman" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 29, 2024 6:56:31 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations
>
> I thought the same thing.  I had to cancel their service after just a week
> or two because streaming was absolutely a joke (looked to me like their
> peering was full, couldn't get any kind of capacity beyond their network).
> They left this convenient wall plate with an APC bulkhead just sitting
> here...
>
> On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 5:29 PM  wrote:
>
>> I have always wanted to connect a source of upstream light to my
>> connection at home.  (Served by a competitor).  Wonder how long it would
>> take to troubleshoot.  Especially if I made it randomly intermittent and on
>> a timer.  Perhaps during the first minute of the superbowl or
>> something...?  [image: Winking smile]
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jason McKemie
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 29, 2024 3:05 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations
>>
>> I know Exfo has units with an optional PON port for connecting to a live
>> on-net fiber and testing. Maybe this is more or less standard anymore, my
>> current OTDR is a bit dated.
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 29, 2024, Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>> > IDK what you mean by PON features unless you want an inline unit to
>> watch the traffic.  Veex just came out with one that will do that.  I don't
>> see the need, but it is cool.
>> > We bought the one (or one like) Cassidy linked and then bought this
>> second:
>> >
>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CW3B9ZM8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>> >
>> > Cassidy - get a super cheap/fast PON meter that just reads the light
>> from the OLT rather than waiting for the OTDR to boot.  Or just clamp and
>> see if there is light -
>> https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Optical-Identifier-800-1700nm-Functions/dp/B09JLL6NPM/
>> > On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 4:45 PM Cassidy B. Larson 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> We’ve been getting these smaller OTDR/VFL/OPMs from Amazon for our
>> field techs. This way they can see if there’s a problem with the drop at
>> least. If it’s anything past that, the splicers with the fancier/costlier
>> OTDRs get involved.  Price point is right and it does what they need it to
>> do.
>> >>
>> https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Mini-Pro-Mulit-Function-5m-60Km-Dynamic/dp/B092LNWZ4Y/
>> >>
>> >> -c
>> >>
>> >> On Oct 29, 2024, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>> >> Does anyone have any recommendations for an OTDR that won't break the
>> bank but is reasonably easy to use? My Exfo just stopped powering up today,
>> so evidently I'm in the market for a new one. The Exfo is about 14 years
>> old, so I assume they've come a little ways since then. I don't need
>> anything for super long distances, mainly just access, PON features are a
>> plus. --
>> >> AF mailing list
>> >> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> AF mailing list
>> >> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] nonstart/noncompletion clause

2024-10-31 Thread chuck 
That doesn’t pass the “equity” smell test to me.   I guess it depends on the 
language of the contract.  Seems onerous.  Say the original contractor signed 
on, had a key person die on their team, and they only mobilized and had to shut 
down.  I really doubt they would be on the hook to cover another contractor 
coming in at a higher price to do the job.  In my experience the courts are 
pretty wise and fair in these situations.  

In any event, have spent many decades administering RUS financed construction 
projects.  They all have a performance bond so the owner and lender are both 
covered.  Smaller contracts have liquidated damages.  

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2024 6:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] nonstart/noncompletion clause

Per our attorney, anything it costs above and beyond what the original 
contractor signed for is owed by the original contractor. If the original 
project was $100k and you had to pay someone else $300k to get it done, the 
original contractor owes you at least $200k, and anything else on top of that 
that you hadn't yet paid them.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Steve Jones" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2024 5:12:59 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] nonstart/noncompletion clause


so I just had my first, probably not my last case of a subcontractor not 
starting a project and backing out. 

It does screw me with my reputation with the customer, but its what it is, I am 
lining up a new sub.

My contract template has a non start/non complete clause of standard verbiage, 
the whole thing of basically the sub pays whatever it costs beyond any 
completed work.

Im not going to enforce it in this case, but are these clauses actually 
enforceable?  Like could I go hire somebody else at 3x the cost and bill the 
old sub? In this case Id doubt even with judement id see any dough, Im just 
curious if anybody has ever had to enforce this?

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Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

2024-10-31 Thread Dev 
We had a $300 OTDR. The only thing it didn’t do was estimate length very well 
if it worked at all.

My friend asked how much money we’d save if we dug up the wrong lady’s yard to 
replace a fiber that wasn’t broken.

Then we bought a Viavi, waited for a show discount. Now we can dig up the right 
lady’s lawn.

> On Oct 31, 2024, at 8:14 AM, Josh Luthman  wrote:
> 
> Metronet :P
> 
> On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 11:12 AM Mike Hammett  > wrote:
>> Josh, which competitor? I've seen similar things out of MetroNet.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>   
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>   
>>  
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> From: "Josh Luthman" > >
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" > >
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2024 6:56:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations
>> 
>> I thought the same thing.  I had to cancel their service after just a week 
>> or two because streaming was absolutely a joke (looked to me like their 
>> peering was full, couldn't get any kind of capacity beyond their network).  
>> They left this convenient wall plate with an APC bulkhead just sitting 
>> here...
>> 
>> On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 5:29 PM mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>> 
>> wrote:
>>> I have always wanted to connect a source of upstream light to my connection 
>>> at home.  (Served by a competitor).  Wonder how long it would take to 
>>> troubleshoot.  Especially if I made it randomly intermittent and on a 
>>> timer.  Perhaps during the first minute of the superbowl or something...?  
>>> 
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: Jason McKemie <>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2024 3:05 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <>
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations
>>>  
>>> I know Exfo has units with an optional PON port for connecting to a live 
>>> on-net fiber and testing. Maybe this is more or less standard anymore, my 
>>> current OTDR is a bit dated.
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, October 29, 2024, Josh Luthman > 
>>> wrote:
>>> > IDK what you mean by PON features unless you want an inline unit to watch 
>>> > the traffic.  Veex just came out with one that will do that.  I don't see 
>>> > the need, but it is cool.
>>> > We bought the one (or one like) Cassidy linked and then bought this 
>>> > second:
>>> > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CW3B9ZM8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>>> >
>>> > Cassidy - get a super cheap/fast PON meter that just reads the light from 
>>> > the OLT rather than waiting for the OTDR to boot.  Or just clamp and see 
>>> > if there is light - 
>>> > https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Optical-Identifier-800-1700nm-Functions/dp/B09JLL6NPM/
>>> > On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 4:45 PM Cassidy B. Larson > 
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> We’ve been getting these smaller OTDR/VFL/OPMs from Amazon for our field 
>>> >> techs. This way they can see if there’s a problem with the drop at 
>>> >> least. If it’s anything past that, the splicers with the 
>>> >> fancier/costlier OTDRs get involved.  Price point is right and it does 
>>> >> what they need it to do.
>>> >> https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Mini-Pro-Mulit-Function-5m-60Km-Dynamic/dp/B092LNWZ4Y/
>>> >>
>>> >> -c
>>> >>
>>> >> On Oct 29, 2024, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie 
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >> Does anyone have any recommendations for an OTDR that won't break the 
>>> >> bank but is reasonably easy to use? My Exfo just stopped powering up 
>>> >> today, so evidently I'm in the market for a new one. The Exfo is about 
>>> >> 14 years old, so I assume they've come a little ways since then. I don't 
>>> >> need anything for super long distances, mainly just access, PON features 
>>> >> are a plus. --
>>> >> AF mailing list
>>> >> AF@af.afmug.com <>
>>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> AF mailing list
>>> >> AF@af.afmug.com <>
>>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> >
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com 
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com 
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com 
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com 
>> http://

Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

2024-10-31 Thread Mike Hammett 
Josh, which competitor? I've seen similar things out of MetroNet. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Luthman"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2024 6:56:31 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations 


I thought the same thing. I had to cancel their service after just a week or 
two because streaming was absolutely a joke (looked to me like their peering 
was full, couldn't get any kind of capacity beyond their network). They left 
this convenient wall plate with an APC bulkhead just sitting here... 


On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 5:29 PM < ch...@go-mtc.com > wrote: 






I have always wanted to connect a source of upstream light to my connection at 
home. (Served by a competitor). Wonder how long it would take to troubleshoot. 
Especially if I made it randomly intermittent and on a timer. Perhaps during 
the first minute of the superbowl or something...? Winking smile






From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2024 3:05 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations 

I know Exfo has units with an optional PON port for connecting to a live on-net 
fiber and testing. Maybe this is more or less standard anymore, my current OTDR 
is a bit dated. 

On Tuesday, October 29, 2024, Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > 
wrote: 
> IDK what you mean by PON features unless you want an inline unit to watch the 
> traffic. Veex just came out with one that will do that. I don't see the need, 
> but it is cool. 
> We bought the one (or one like) Cassidy linked and then bought this second: 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CW3B9ZM8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>  
> 
> Cassidy - get a super cheap/fast PON meter that just reads the light from the 
> OLT rather than waiting for the OTDR to boot. Or just clamp and see if there 
> is light - 
> https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Optical-Identifier-800-1700nm-Functions/dp/B09JLL6NPM/
>  
> On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 4:45 PM Cassidy B. Larson < c...@infowest.com > 
> wrote: 
>> 
>> We’ve been getting these smaller OTDR/VFL/OPMs from Amazon for our field 
>> techs. This way they can see if there’s a problem with the drop at least. If 
>> it’s anything past that, the splicers with the fancier/costlier OTDRs get 
>> involved. Price point is right and it does what they need it to do. 
>> https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Mini-Pro-Mulit-Function-5m-60Km-Dynamic/dp/B092LNWZ4Y/
>>  
>> 
>> -c 
>> 
>> On Oct 29, 2024, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie < 
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com > wrote: 
>> Does anyone have any recommendations for an OTDR that won't break the bank 
>> but is reasonably easy to use? My Exfo just stopped powering up today, so 
>> evidently I'm in the market for a new one. The Exfo is about 14 years old, 
>> so I assume they've come a little ways since then. I don't need anything for 
>> super long distances, mainly just access, PON features are a plus. -- 
>> AF mailing list 
>> AF@af.afmug.com 
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list 
>> AF@af.afmug.com 
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT chiste

2024-10-31 Thread Chuck 
But Jlo phonetically sounds like heilo which doesn’t make sense because I was thinking helado.  So it would have to have been the coldest actress rather than the sweetest.  So, never mind…Sent from my iPhoneOn Oct 30, 2024, at 10:01 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:Yes, except you’re dating yourself.  Can you make it work with maybe Olivia Rodrigo? From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@go-mtc.comSent: Wednesday, October 30, 2024 9:37 PMTo: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT chiste I invented that all by my self. From: ch...@go-mtc.com Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2024 8:19 PMTo: af@af.afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] OT chiste Hice una broma:   Quien es la actriz y cantante m�s dulce de eeuu?    Jlo    (hielo)  ja ja -- AF mailing listAF@af.afmug.comhttp://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com-- AF mailing listAF@af.afmug.comhttp://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

2024-10-31 Thread Jason McKemie 
Does anyone have experience with INNO OTDRs?

On Wednesday, October 30, 2024, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
> This one is intriguing. Not exactly cheap, but it is a far cry from the
pricing on a lot of the name brand OTDRs that I've looked at.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CNCDYWRN
>
> On Wednesday, October 30, 2024,  wrote:
>> Yeah I’d love if I could find one of those cheap OTDR’s at 1650nm.  Last
time I looked all the cheapos were 1310 or 1550.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@go-mtc.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2024 5:04 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations
>>
>>
>>
>> You can shoot active pon fiber with the right wavelengths and filters.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Josh Luthman
>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2024 2:58 PM
>>
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations
>>
>>
>>
>> IDK what you mean by PON features unless you want an inline unit to
watch the traffic.  Veex just came out with one that will do that.  I don't
see the need, but it is cool.
>>
>>
>>
>> We bought the one (or one like) Cassidy linked and then bought this
second:
>>
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CW3B9ZM8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>>
>> Cassidy - get a super cheap/fast PON meter that just reads the light
from the OLT rather than waiting for the OTDR to boot.  Or just clamp and
see if there is light -
https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Optical-Identifier-800-1700nm-Functions/dp/B09JLL6NPM/
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 4:45 PM Cassidy B. Larson 
wrote:
>>
>> We’ve been getting these smaller OTDR/VFL/OPMs from Amazon for our field
techs. This way they can see if there’s a problem with the drop at least.
If it’s anything past that, the splicers with the fancier/costlier OTDRs
get involved.  Price point is right and it does what they need it to do.
>>
>>
>>
>>
https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Mini-Pro-Mulit-Function-5m-60Km-Dynamic/dp/B092LNWZ4Y/
>>
>>
>>
>> -c
>>
>> On Oct 29, 2024, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone have any recommendations for an OTDR that won't break the
bank but is reasonably easy to use? My Exfo just stopped powering up today,
so evidently I'm in the market for a new one. The Exfo is about 14 years
old, so I assume they've come a little ways since then. I don't need
anything for super long distances, mainly just access, PON features are a
plus. --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> 
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT chiste

2024-10-31 Thread Ken Hohhof 
She does kind of seem like an ice princess.

 

Not sure what Ben Affleck’s problem is.  Seems like the other Jennifer was a 
better catch.  More helado than hielo.  But there’s no accounting for taste.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2024 7:05 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT chiste

 

But Jlo phonetically sounds like heilo which doesn’t make sense because I was 
thinking helado.  So it would have to have been the coldest actress rather than 
the sweetest.  So, never mind…

Sent from my iPhone





On Oct 30, 2024, at 10:01 PM, Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:



Yes, except you’re dating yourself.  Can you make it work with maybe Olivia 
Rodrigo?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of ch...@go-mtc.com  
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2024 9:37 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT chiste

 

I invented that all by my self.

 

From: ch...@go-mtc.com   

Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2024 8:19 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: [AFMUG] OT chiste

 

Hice una broma:   Quien es la actriz y cantante m�s dulce de eeuu?  

 

 

Jlo 

 

 

 

(hielo)  ja ja

 


  _  


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Re: [AFMUG] OT chiste

2024-10-31 Thread Bill Prince 
It's against the law for gringos to make spanish jokes.

--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com


On Wed, Oct 30, 2024 at 7:20 PM  wrote:

> Hice una broma:   Quien es la actriz y cantante más dulce de eeuu?
>
>
> Jlo
>
>
>
> (hielo)  ja ja
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations

2024-10-31 Thread Mike Hammett 
Sure, but most people don't have that scenario. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@go-mtc.com 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2024 12:32:32 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations 




Still, length is not an exact science with OTDRs. Especially if it is a long 
shot. 
Every fiber has a different index of refraction and velocity factor. And these 
characteristics vary along the entire length of the fiber. 
Then there is twist in the tube, wavering routes and slack loops etc. And there 
is also timebase accuracy, which varies with temperature... 

So if you have gopher damage in the desert and the closest hand hole is 10 
miles away, you will have to dig and cut several times before you zero in on 
it. 





From: Dev 
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2024 10:39 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations 

We had a $300 OTDR. The only thing it didn’t do was estimate length very well 
if it worked at all. 

My friend asked how much money we’d save if we dug up the wrong lady’s yard to 
replace a fiber that wasn’t broken. 

Then we bought a Viavi, waited for a show discount. Now we can dig up the right 
lady’s lawn. 





On Oct 31, 2024, at 8:14 AM, Josh Luthman  wrote: 


Metronet :P 


On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 11:12 AM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





Josh, which competitor? I've seen similar things out of MetroNet. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Luthman" < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2024 6:56:31 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations 


I thought the same thing. I had to cancel their service after just a week or 
two because streaming was absolutely a joke (looked to me like their peering 
was full, couldn't get any kind of capacity beyond their network). They left 
this convenient wall plate with an APC bulkhead just sitting here... 


On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 5:29 PM < ch...@go-mtc.com > wrote: 






I have always wanted to connect a source of upstream light to my connection at 
home. (Served by a competitor). Wonder how long it would take to troubleshoot. 
Especially if I made it randomly intermittent and on a timer. Perhaps during 
the first minute of the superbowl or something...? 
 






From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2024 3:05 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OTDR Recommendations 

I know Exfo has units with an optional PON port for connecting to a live on-net 
fiber and testing. Maybe this is more or less standard anymore, my current OTDR 
is a bit dated. 

On Tuesday, October 29, 2024, Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > 
wrote: 
> IDK what you mean by PON features unless you want an inline unit to watch the 
> traffic. Veex just came out with one that will do that. I don't see the need, 
> but it is cool. 
> We bought the one (or one like) Cassidy linked and then bought this second: 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CW3B9ZM8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>  
> 
> Cassidy - get a super cheap/fast PON meter that just reads the light from the 
> OLT rather than waiting for the OTDR to boot. Or just clamp and see if there 
> is light - 
> https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Optical-Identifier-800-1700nm-Functions/dp/B09JLL6NPM/
>  
> On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 4:45 PM Cassidy B. Larson < c...@infowest.com > 
> wrote: 
>> 
>> We’ve been getting these smaller OTDR/VFL/OPMs from Amazon for our field 
>> techs. This way they can see if there’s a problem with the drop at least. If 
>> it’s anything past that, the splicers with the fancier/costlier OTDRs get 
>> involved. Price point is right and it does what they need it to do. 
>> https://www.amazon.com/YEDEMC-Mini-Pro-Mulit-Function-5m-60Km-Dynamic/dp/B092LNWZ4Y/
>>  
>> 
>> -c 
>> 
>> On Oct 29, 2024, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie < 
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com > wrote: 
>> Does anyone have any recommendations for an OTDR that won't break the bank 
>> but is reasonably easy to use? My Exfo just stopped powering up today, so 
>> evidently I'm in the market for a new one. The Exfo is about 14 years old, 
>> so I assume they've come a little ways since then. I don't need anything for 
>> super long distances, mainly just access, PON features are a plus. -- 
>> AF mailing list 
>> AF@af.afmug.com 
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list 
>> AF@af.afmug.com 
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 

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h

Re: [AFMUG] nonstart/noncompletion clause

2024-10-31 Thread Mike Hammett 
Per our attorney, anything it costs above and beyond what the original 
contractor signed for is owed by the original contractor. If the original 
project was $100k and you had to pay someone else $300k to get it done, the 
original contractor owes you at least $200k, and anything else on top of that 
that you hadn't yet paid them. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2024 5:12:59 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] nonstart/noncompletion clause 


so I just had my first, probably not my last case of a subcontractor not 
starting a project and backing out. 


It does screw me with my reputation with the customer, but its what it is, I am 
lining up a new sub. 


My contract template has a non start/non complete clause of standard verbiage, 
the whole thing of basically the sub pays whatever it costs beyond any 
completed work. 


Im not going to enforce it in this case, but are these clauses actually 
enforceable? Like could I go hire somebody else at 3x the cost and bill the old 
sub? In this case Id doubt even with judement id see any dough, Im just curious 
if anybody has ever had to enforce this? 
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[AFMUG] Broadcom

2024-10-31 Thread Ken Hohhof 
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/10/a-year-after-broadcoms-vmware-buy-customers-eye-exit-strategies/



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