[AFMUG] ePMP3000 AP spatial diversity - has anyone tried it?

[Colin Stanners]

We have a tower site with customers across a lake, a few miles from the
tower. On 2.4Ghz PMP100 and 3.65Ghz PMP450 platforms, the occasional
thermal ducting / reflection across the lake will cause signal loss and
slowdowns / disconnections in rare and non-uniform cases.

I had been looking at spatial diversity options at the tower end for a
while, but they weren't great.
1) Separate APs+antennas at different heights (at 3.65Ghz frequency ~50ft
apart?) - reconnections as the SMs switch APs would annoy customers, and
another non-lite PMP450 AP is not cheap for a smaller tower.
2) A PMP450 3Ghz AP in the middle, with each polarization on a different
antenna, ~50ft apart in height: the signal loss in the longer coax to each
antenna is a big problem and some customers would often lose half speed due
to one polarization being low in their location due to Fresnel zone.

Now that ePMP3000 has been working well elsewhere on our network, there is
option:
3) ePMP3000 with 2x antennas, one main at the AP and another diversity
antenna ~35ft lower (~6dB weaker due to loss on the LMR400 coax etc).
Avoids all major problems. We checked in the shop and the Force 300-25 SM
seems to jump between antennas on AP ports 0+1 and 2+3 quickly and
effortlessly, without affecting traffic.

This seems like a great option, does anyone see a reason that it wouldn't
work?
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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP3000 AP spatial diversity - has anyone tried it?

[Darin Steffl]

This really sounds like something you should talk to cambium about. They
probably have some thoughts and advice on how to best make it work.

On Fri, May 29, 2020, 10:39 AM Colin Stanners  wrote:

> We have a tower site with customers across a lake, a few miles from the
> tower. On 2.4Ghz PMP100 and 3.65Ghz PMP450 platforms, the occasional
> thermal ducting / reflection across the lake will cause signal loss and
> slowdowns / disconnections in rare and non-uniform cases.
>
> I had been looking at spatial diversity options at the tower end for a
> while, but they weren't great.
> 1) Separate APs+antennas at different heights (at 3.65Ghz frequency ~50ft
> apart?) - reconnections as the SMs switch APs would annoy customers, and
> another non-lite PMP450 AP is not cheap for a smaller tower.
> 2) A PMP450 3Ghz AP in the middle, with each polarization on a different
> antenna, ~50ft apart in height: the signal loss in the longer coax to each
> antenna is a big problem and some customers would often lose half speed due
> to one polarization being low in their location due to Fresnel zone.
>
> Now that ePMP3000 has been working well elsewhere on our network, there is
> option:
> 3) ePMP3000 with 2x antennas, one main at the AP and another diversity
> antenna ~35ft lower (~6dB weaker due to loss on the LMR400 coax etc).
> Avoids all major problems. We checked in the shop and the Force 300-25 SM
> seems to jump between antennas on AP ports 0+1 and 2+3 quickly and
> effortlessly, without affecting traffic.
>
> This seems like a great option, does anyone see a reason that it wouldn't
> work?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP3000 AP spatial diversity - has anyone tried it?

[chuck]

You could use LMR1200.  Sounds like it will work just fine.  

From: Colin Stanners 
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 9:38 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] ePMP3000 AP spatial diversity - has anyone tried it?

We have a tower site with customers across a lake, a few miles from the tower. 
On 2.4Ghz PMP100 and 3.65Ghz PMP450 platforms, the occasional thermal ducting / 
reflection across the lake will cause signal loss and slowdowns / 
disconnections in rare and non-uniform cases.

I had been looking at spatial diversity options at the tower end for a while, 
but they weren't great.

1) Separate APs+antennas at different heights (at 3.65Ghz frequency ~50ft 
apart?) - reconnections as the SMs switch APs would annoy customers, and 
another non-lite PMP450 AP is not cheap for a smaller tower.

2) A PMP450 3Ghz AP in the middle, with each polarization on a different 
antenna, ~50ft apart in height: the signal loss in the longer coax to each 
antenna is a big problem and some customers would often lose half speed due to 
one polarization being low in their location due to Fresnel zone.

Now that ePMP3000 has been working well elsewhere on our network, there is 
option:

3) ePMP3000 with 2x antennas, one main at the AP and another diversity antenna 
~35ft lower (~6dB weaker due to loss on the LMR400 coax etc). Avoids all major 
problems. We checked in the shop and the Force 300-25 SM seems to jump between 
antennas on AP ports 0+1 and 2+3 quickly and effortlessly, without affecting 
traffic.

This seems like a great option, does anyone see a reason that it wouldn't work?




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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP3000 AP spatial diversity - has anyone tried it?

[Ken Hohhof]

Which is a few miles from the tower, the customers or the lake?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Darin Steffl
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 10:47 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP3000 AP spatial diversity - has anyone tried it?

 

This really sounds like something you should talk to cambium about. They 
probably have some thoughts and advice on how to best make it work. 

 

On Fri, May 29, 2020, 10:39 AM Colin Stanners mailto:cstann...@gmail.com> > wrote:

We have a tower site with customers across a lake, a few miles from the tower. 
On 2.4Ghz PMP100 and 3.65Ghz PMP450 platforms, the occasional thermal ducting / 
reflection across the lake will cause signal loss and slowdowns / 
disconnections in rare and non-uniform cases.

 

I had been looking at spatial diversity options at the tower end for a while, 
but they weren't great.

1) Separate APs+antennas at different heights (at 3.65Ghz frequency ~50ft 
apart?) - reconnections as the SMs switch APs would annoy customers, and 
another non-lite PMP450 AP is not cheap for a smaller tower.

2) A PMP450 3Ghz AP in the middle, with each polarization on a different 
antenna, ~50ft apart in height: the signal loss in the longer coax to each 
antenna is a big problem and some customers would often lose half speed due to 
one polarization being low in their location due to Fresnel zone.

 

Now that ePMP3000 has been working well elsewhere on our network, there is 
option:

3) ePMP3000 with 2x antennas, one main at the AP and another diversity antenna 
~35ft lower (~6dB weaker due to loss on the LMR400 coax etc). Avoids all major 
problems. We checked in the shop and the Force 300-25 SM seems to jump between 
antennas on AP ports 0+1 and 2+3 quickly and effortlessly, without affecting 
traffic.

 

This seems like a great option, does anyone see a reason that it wouldn't work?

 

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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP3000 AP spatial diversity - has anyone tried it?

[Steve Jones]

Put the smart antenna on it. Make sure your antenna leads are the same
length on main and diverse. 4 5 supports the smart antenna.
Try it in omni mode too.
This is worth doing just to know.

You could try a csm with diversity too, even fairly close together.

On Fri, May 29, 2020, 11:55 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Which is a few miles from the tower, the customers or the lake?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Darin Steffl
> *Sent:* Friday, May 29, 2020 10:47 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP3000 AP spatial diversity - has anyone tried
> it?
>
>
>
> This really sounds like something you should talk to cambium about. They
> probably have some thoughts and advice on how to best make it work.
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2020, 10:39 AM Colin Stanners  wrote:
>
> We have a tower site with customers across a lake, a few miles from the
> tower. On 2.4Ghz PMP100 and 3.65Ghz PMP450 platforms, the occasional
> thermal ducting / reflection across the lake will cause signal loss and
> slowdowns / disconnections in rare and non-uniform cases.
>
>
>
> I had been looking at spatial diversity options at the tower end for a
> while, but they weren't great.
>
> 1) Separate APs+antennas at different heights (at 3.65Ghz frequency ~50ft
> apart?) - reconnections as the SMs switch APs would annoy customers, and
> another non-lite PMP450 AP is not cheap for a smaller tower.
>
> 2) A PMP450 3Ghz AP in the middle, with each polarization on a different
> antenna, ~50ft apart in height: the signal loss in the longer coax to each
> antenna is a big problem and some customers would often lose half speed due
> to one polarization being low in their location due to Fresnel zone.
>
>
>
> Now that ePMP3000 has been working well elsewhere on our network, there is
> option:
>
> 3) ePMP3000 with 2x antennas, one main at the AP and another diversity
> antenna ~35ft lower (~6dB weaker due to loss on the LMR400 coax etc).
> Avoids all major problems. We checked in the shop and the Force 300-25 SM
> seems to jump between antennas on AP ports 0+1 and 2+3 quickly and
> effortlessly, without affecting traffic.
>
>
>
> This seems like a great option, does anyone see a reason that it wouldn't
> work?
>
>
>
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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[AFMUG] Motorola Nitro CBRS

[Kurt Fankhauser]

what is this two-way radio? Claims to use CBRS band? Is all CBRS 3.5ghz?
https://www.motorolasolutions.com/en_us/products/two-way-radios/mototrbo/nitro.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw5cL2BRASEiwAENqAPphXPtzfkyc1AKPbTBOZiE-buJhRhFjs0lXYD6ndU8QrMb2mcUZv2xoCXhoQAvD_BwE
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Re: [AFMUG] Motorola Nitro CBRS

[Jason Wilson]

Band 48



Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com


On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 12:38 PM Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> what is this two-way radio? Claims to use CBRS band? Is all CBRS 3.5ghz?
>
> https://www.motorolasolutions.com/en_us/products/two-way-radios/mototrbo/nitro.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw5cL2BRASEiwAENqAPphXPtzfkyc1AKPbTBOZiE-buJhRhFjs0lXYD6ndU8QrMb2mcUZv2xoCXhoQAvD_BwE
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Motorola Nitro CBRS

[Kurt Fankhauser]

interesting...

On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 3:43 PM Jason Wilson 
wrote:

> Band 48
>
>
>
> Jason Wilson
> Remotely Located
> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
> 530-651-1736
> 530-748-9608 Cell
> www.remotelylocated.com
>
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 12:38 PM Kurt Fankhauser 
> wrote:
>
>> what is this two-way radio? Claims to use CBRS band? Is all CBRS 3.5ghz?
>>
>> https://www.motorolasolutions.com/en_us/products/two-way-radios/mototrbo/nitro.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw5cL2BRASEiwAENqAPphXPtzfkyc1AKPbTBOZiE-buJhRhFjs0lXYD6ndU8QrMb2mcUZv2xoCXhoQAvD_BwE
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Motorola Nitro CBRS

[Lewis Bergman]

If you want to know more about it let me know. I don't think there is a
great case for it but evidently their dev team thinks so. Its pricey.

On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 2:50 PM Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> interesting...
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 3:43 PM Jason Wilson 
> wrote:
>
>> Band 48
>>
>>
>>
>> Jason Wilson
>> Remotely Located
>> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
>> 530-651-1736
>> 530-748-9608 Cell
>> www.remotelylocated.com
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 12:38 PM Kurt Fankhauser <
>> lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> what is this two-way radio? Claims to use CBRS band? Is all CBRS 3.5ghz?
>>>
>>> https://www.motorolasolutions.com/en_us/products/two-way-radios/mototrbo/nitro.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw5cL2BRASEiwAENqAPphXPtzfkyc1AKPbTBOZiE-buJhRhFjs0lXYD6ndU8QrMb2mcUZv2xoCXhoQAvD_BwE
>>>
>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] ePMP3000 AP spatial diversity - has anyone tried it?

[Mathew Howard]

I don't see any obvious why it wouldn't work. MU-MIMO might not work too
well, but you probably don't care too much about that in this case anyway.

I think I would probably put the radio half way between the two antennas so
that you can have equal loss both of them... that way you can set the tx
power on the radio higher to compensate for the cable loss.

On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 1:23 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Put the smart antenna on it. Make sure your antenna leads are the same
> length on main and diverse. 4 5 supports the smart antenna.
> Try it in omni mode too.
> This is worth doing just to know.
>
> You could try a csm with diversity too, even fairly close together.
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2020, 11:55 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Which is a few miles from the tower, the customers or the lake?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Darin Steffl
>> *Sent:* Friday, May 29, 2020 10:47 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP3000 AP spatial diversity - has anyone tried
>> it?
>>
>>
>>
>> This really sounds like something you should talk to cambium about. They
>> probably have some thoughts and advice on how to best make it work.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 29, 2020, 10:39 AM Colin Stanners 
>> wrote:
>>
>> We have a tower site with customers across a lake, a few miles from the
>> tower. On 2.4Ghz PMP100 and 3.65Ghz PMP450 platforms, the occasional
>> thermal ducting / reflection across the lake will cause signal loss and
>> slowdowns / disconnections in rare and non-uniform cases.
>>
>>
>>
>> I had been looking at spatial diversity options at the tower end for a
>> while, but they weren't great.
>>
>> 1) Separate APs+antennas at different heights (at 3.65Ghz frequency ~50ft
>> apart?) - reconnections as the SMs switch APs would annoy customers, and
>> another non-lite PMP450 AP is not cheap for a smaller tower.
>>
>> 2) A PMP450 3Ghz AP in the middle, with each polarization on a different
>> antenna, ~50ft apart in height: the signal loss in the longer coax to each
>> antenna is a big problem and some customers would often lose half speed due
>> to one polarization being low in their location due to Fresnel zone.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now that ePMP3000 has been working well elsewhere on our network, there
>> is option:
>>
>> 3) ePMP3000 with 2x antennas, one main at the AP and another diversity
>> antenna ~35ft lower (~6dB weaker due to loss on the LMR400 coax etc).
>> Avoids all major problems. We checked in the shop and the Force 300-25 SM
>> seems to jump between antennas on AP ports 0+1 and 2+3 quickly and
>> effortlessly, without affecting traffic.
>>
>>
>>
>> This seems like a great option, does anyone see a reason that it wouldn't
>> work?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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