[9fans] New to plan9

[joseph turco]

Hello all,

I am a new user to bell labs plan9. I have it installed on my raspberry pi
400, and I'd also like to get it running on my old desktop as a file
server, which ive been able to boot using legacy9s USB (don't  have blank
CDs for bell labs). I was wondering about something, I've been having some
difficultly using the OS, using commands to do things and getting web
browsing to work with abaco (complains about no DNS). Is the OS assuming
you are proficent in Unix commands? I am not that experienced with
Unix/Linux commands, other than the odd cp or rm commands. I am glad the
man pages are available on the system, but it doesn't really point me in
the right direction on how to write commands, thus my question. I wonder if
I'm missing a certain paper or guide. Sorry if am bothering anyone with
this question, and please excuse my ignorance.

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Re: [9fans] New to plan9

[joseph turco]

Thank you to both of you for the responses. I guess getting deep into the
man pages is how I'll have to go about running things. I'm actually
considering taking the OS off my pi, and loading it onto the desktop I have
as a CPU/file server. I can get legacy9 to boot on it, I just need to
figure out how to get it to work and connect the pi via TCP. I also have
though of just leaving the running system on my pi, also load it on the old
desktop, and just have both boxes talk to each other. The first idea sounds
more fun but I'm unsure.

On Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 10:09 AM sirjofri 
wrote:

>
> 15.10.2021 15:05:25 Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir :
>
> > A few useful links to get started:
> 
> To add more infos for community stuff and more:
> 
> (Of course, read as much as possible, the man pages, wiki, fqa, articles,
> papers,  My notes here are just for you to get a small overview of
> the community.)
> 
> In general, you'll notice that the bubble is quite small. You'll see the
> same people hanging around and actually meet with people rather than
> writing as an anonymous person to other anonymous persons. I was active
> for less than a month and people started recognizing me.
> 
> Here are places people hang out and discuss stuff:
> 
> Mailing lists. There are few of them. The 9fans mailing list (here), I
> won't say anything about it (you are already here).
> 
> There's also the 9front mailing list for 9front-specific topics (9front
> is a fork); as well as the inferno mailing list.
> 
> For chatting there are multiple channels:
> 
> The 9fans discord server [1] if you prefer modern apps. We have a voice
> chat and some channels, as well as a bot. Some of the channels are
> bridged to a matrix channel and (through that) to the ##9fans irc on
> oftc.
> 
> The ##9fans oftc (actually multiple channels) channels.
> 
> The #cat-v channel on oftc is often used for 9front discussion (and cat-v
> discussion).
> 
> 9p.zone (which is also the web page) has its own chat system known as
> gridchat (short: grid). It's a 9p filesystem you can import into your
> system and read-write the files there. There are some very special people
> there who don't usually hang out in the other community channels.
> 
> In general you'll meet many people in multiple channels depending on
> their preference. You can ask your questions everywhere and hopefully
> they'll be answered.
> 
> Welcome to the community!
> 
> sirjofri
> 
> ---
> [1] https://discord.gg/AMDKS4wdVR

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Re: [9fans] New to plan9

[joseph turco]

Nice! I'm still understanding how to use the OS. I can't even get on the
web as its complaining about DNS servers in abaco (I know mothra is
preferred but I'm using bell labs plan 9). I need to understand how I can
get two plan 9 systems to talk to each other, and then able to mount the fs
system on my standalone RPI. I guess it will come to me in due time.

On Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 1:47 PM Michael Misch 
wrote:

> I went all in on my first foray, and set up discrete fs + auth + cpu +
> terms, it was fun but wholly unnecessary. Eventually I settled into fs/auth
> on one, and a cpu server on the side with drawterm/terms. This was all
> 9front, which has some niceties for networked setups, including cpu
> listeners for fs/auth to maintain without needing serial/gui/ssh access.
>
> On Oct 15, 2021, at 10:31 AM, joseph turco 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Thank you to both of you for the responses. I guess getting deep into the
> man pages is how I'll have to go about running things. I'm actually
> considering taking the OS off my pi, and loading it onto the desktop I have
> as a CPU/file server. I can get legacy9 to boot on it, I just need to
> figure out how to get it to work and connect the pi via TCP. I also have
> though of just leaving the running system on my pi, also load it on the old
> desktop, and just have both boxes talk to each other. The first idea sounds
> more fun but I'm unsure.
>
> On Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 10:09 AM sirjofri 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> 15.10.2021 15:05:25 Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir :
>>
>> > A few useful links to get started:
>> 
>> To add more infos for community stuff and more:
>> 
>> (Of course, read as much as possible, the man pages, wiki, fqa, articles,
>> papers,  My notes here are just for you to get a small overview of
>> the community.)
>> 
>> In general, you'll notice that the bubble is quite small. You'll see the
>> same people hanging around and actually meet with people rather than
>> writing as an anonymous person to other anonymous persons. I was active
>> for less than a month and people started recognizing me.
>> 
>> Here are places people hang out and discuss stuff:
>> 
>> Mailing lists. There are few of them. The 9fans mailing list (here), I
>> won't say anything about it (you are already here).
>> 
>> There's also the 9front mailing list for 9front-specific topics (9front
>> is a fork); as well as the inferno mailing list.
>> 
>> For chatting there are multiple channels:
>> 
>> The 9fans discord server [1] if you prefer modern apps. We have a voice
>> chat and some channels, as well as a bot. Some of the channels are
>> bridged to a matrix channel and (through that) to the ##9fans irc on
>> oftc.
>> 
>> The ##9fans oftc (actually multiple channels) channels.
>> 
>> The #cat-v channel on oftc is often used for 9front discussion (and cat-v
>> discussion).
>> 
>> 9p.zone (which is also the web page) has its own chat system known as
>> gridchat (short: grid). It's a 9p filesystem you can import into your
>> system and read-write the files there. There are some very special people
>> there who don't usually hang out in the other community channels.
>> 
>> In general you'll meet many people in multiple channels depending on
>> their preference. You can ask your questions everywhere and hopefully
>> they'll be answered.
>> 
>> Welcome to the community!
>> 
>> sirjofri
>> 
>> ---
>> [1] https://discord.gg/AMDKS4wdVR
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Re: [9fans] New to plan9

[joseph turco]

Your quite right, I wouldn't switch to 9front for that reason, but is nice
that 9front does have more secure protocols in place. I stuck with bell
labs because the RPI iso was right there I wanted to see the OS from the
beginning. Its also why I have the bootable 9legacy USB for my old desktop,
but that's sitting around until I can figure out the OS, so then I can get
it running how I want on there, and link up the systems so that the desktop
acts as a shared fs.

On Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 2:58 PM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:

> fyi, mothra isn't really *better* than abaco, both support only a
> small subset of websites, and not exactly the same subset. that's not
> the reason to switch to 9front ;)
>
> on 9front we use rcpu and rimport
> on ball-labs you can only use the insecure cpu and import commands.
>
> but if you had a central fileserver, and cpu-boot from that, this
> kinda comes for free...
>
> On 10/15/21, joseph turco  wrote:
> > Nice! I'm still understanding how to use the OS. I can't even get on the
> > web as its complaining about DNS servers in abaco (I know mothra is
> > preferred but I'm using bell labs plan 9). I need to understand how I can
> > get two plan 9 systems to talk to each other, and then able to mount the
> fs
> > system on my standalone RPI. I guess it will come to me in due time.
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 1:47 PM Michael Misch 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I went all in on my first foray, and set up discrete fs + auth + cpu +
> >> terms, it was fun but wholly unnecessary. Eventually I settled into
> >> fs/auth
> >> on one, and a cpu server on the side with drawterm/terms. This was all
> >> 9front, which has some niceties for networked setups, including cpu
> >> listeners for fs/auth to maintain without needing serial/gui/ssh access.
> >>
> >> On Oct 15, 2021, at 10:31 AM, joseph turco 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> 
> >> Thank you to both of you for the responses. I guess getting deep into
> the
> >> man pages is how I'll have to go about running things. I'm actually
> >> considering taking the OS off my pi, and loading it onto the desktop I
> >> have
> >> as a CPU/file server. I can get legacy9 to boot on it, I just need to
> >> figure out how to get it to work and connect the pi via TCP. I also have
> >> though of just leaving the running system on my pi, also load it on the
> >> old
> >> desktop, and just have both boxes talk to each other. The first idea
> >> sounds
> >> more fun but I'm unsure.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 10:09 AM sirjofri 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> 15.10.2021 15:05:25 Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir  >>> > A few useful links to get started:
> >>>
> >>> To add more infos for community stuff and more:
> >>>
> >>> (Of course, read as much as possible, the man pages, wiki, fqa,
> >>> articles,
> >>> papers,  My notes here are just for you to get a small overview of
> >>> the community.)
> >>>
> >>> In general, you'll notice that the bubble is quite small. You'll see
> the
> >>> same people hanging around and actually meet with people rather than
> >>> writing as an anonymous person to other anonymous persons. I was active
> >>> for less than a month and people started recognizing me.
> >>>
> >>> Here are places people hang out and discuss stuff:
> >>>
> >>> Mailing lists. There are few of them. The 9fans mailing list (here), I
> >>> won't say anything about it (you are already here).
> >>>
> >>> There's also the 9front mailing list for 9front-specific topics (9front
> >>> is a fork); as well as the inferno mailing list.
> >>>
> >>> For chatting there are multiple channels:
> >>>
> >>> The 9fans discord server [1] if you prefer modern apps. We have a voice
> >>> chat and some channels, as well as a bot. Some of the channels are
> >>> bridged to a matrix channel and (through that) to the ##9fans irc on
> >>> oftc.
> >>>
> >>> The ##9fans oftc (actually multiple channels) channels.
> >>>
> >>> The #cat-v channel on oftc is often used for 9front discussion (and
> >>> cat-v
> >>> discussion).
> >>>
> >>> 9p.zone (which is also the web page) has its own chat system known as
> >>> gridchat (short: grid). It

Re: [9fans] New to plan9

[joseph turco]

Thanks for the book resource. I plan to figure out how to get the two
systems talking, and want to use the old desktop as the fs for the pi,
while its running its own p9 instance. I am reading the man pages and the
papers to see if I can find what i need for that to happen. As I said
before, I am not well versed in Unix commands other than the basic stuff. I
don't know pipes very well and really relied on googling more than doing
myself for some things when I use Linux. More of a curse than a blessing.

On Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 10:11 AM Conor Williams 
wrote:

> that 800 and odd book looks good Mart...
> will have a read of it with freud later hahaha
> /c:2021161015
> ps: i have my masters degree document available and theres
> some info on Plan 9 in it too from 02-2003
>
> On Sat, Oct 16, 2021 at 12:36 PM Mart Zirnask 
> wrote:
>
>> Also, if you want an overview of the system, Nemo's book "Introduction
>> to Operating Systems Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell Labs" is an
>> awesome resource.
>> http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/9.intro.pdf
>>
>> Best,
>> Mart
>>
>> On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 at 13:14, Keith Gibbs  wrote:
>> >
>> > Yeah, don't switch for simple tools like mothra, but as you learn
>> > more, there are strengths to both.
>> >
>> > I ran the "9miller" Pi version for a bit and as a retro computer
>> > collector and old software junkie, I enjoyed myself, but I played with
>> > VMs and then got some baremetal installs of 9front going.
>> >
>> > 9legacy is fantastic for the "historical preservation" end of things
>> > and it totally usable.  I found myself more and more drawn to 9front
>> > because it is more about *using* Plan 9 for either specialized purpose
>> > or daily driver usage.  I personally run a 9front cpu+auth server on
>> > my network with 9p/drawterm ports forwarded from my fiber hookup.  In
>> > that way, I always have access to my 9 box from the office, from home,
>> > from anywhere.  I use it for writing, C, Go, IRC, as well as a
>> > webserver.  Also, since it is on my network, I can basically access
>> > any machine of mine via sshfs or 9p at any time, making it a Rosetta
>> > Stone of sorts.  Most new software made by the community tends to be
>> > developed with 9front in mind/on 9front, so if you are looking for
>> > things like YouTube playback, security, a more modern browser (netsurf
>> > port), esoteric programming languages, etc.  you will have an easier
>> > time on 9front.
>> >
>> > That being said, some really old stuff doesn't quite work the same as
>> > old old 9, which can get annoying if you find docs or software from
>> > decades ago, but that's less important for me personally.
>> >
>> > So get your feet wet!  If you find you like the retro computing aspect
>> > most, 9legacy is a great distro.  If you are most interested in
>> > modern/more experimental stuff, 9front is awesome.  That being said,
>> > 9front is *not that far* from Plan 9 from Bell Labs 4th edition,
>> > especially compared to Harvey, Jehanne, or even Inferno in a lot of
>> > ways.  Folks from both (actually *all*) communities are frequent
>> > readers/users of this mailing list.
>> >
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > -pixelheresy
>> >
>> > Quoth joseph turco :
>> > > Your quite right, I wouldn't switch to 9front for that reason, but is
>> nice
>> > > that 9front does have more secure protocols in place. I stuck with
>> bell
>> > > labs because the RPI iso was right there I wanted to see the OS from
>> the
>> > > beginning. Its also why I have the bootable 9legacy USB for my old
>> desktop,
>> > > but that's sitting around until I can figure out the OS, so then I
>> can get
>> > > it running how I want on there, and link up the systems so that the
>> desktop
>> > > acts as a shared fs.
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Re: [9fans] New to plan9

[joseph turco]

Thanks I got it to work! Now I have to fix the time. I did a cp
/adm/timezone/Canada_Eastern /adm/timezone/local but get a permission
denied error. I'm logged in as Glenda.

On another note, my Ethernet is not working anymore on my "server" I'm
trying to setup. You are correct that I would like to net boot the pi from
the "server" acting as CPU,file,and auth server. I found a guide to do a
PXE boot for the pi by flashing the eeprom with the option to either boot
from SD, and if absent, will try to netboot, but I have to sort out what's
going on with the Ethernet on the "server" and then configure it as an all
in one.

On Sun, Oct 17, 2021, 2:56 PM  wrote:

> For dns try:
> DNSSERVER=8.8.8.8 (or your favourite dns server)
> For dhcp: ip/ipconfig
> ndb/dns -r
> and then DNSSERVER...
> https://9p.io/wiki/plan9/network_configuration/index.html
> *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
>  + participants
>  + delivery options
>  Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [9fans] New to plan9

[joseph turco]

so the ethernet died on the desktop, im not sure why. it doesn't work in
any linux distros i use as well, so that's not going to happen anymore. i
also got a new mouse to use (a actual three button mouse with no scroll
wheel) and richard millers rpi plan 9 doesnt work with it, and i cannot get
9front to boot on my pi 400 without it freaking out about the sd card
controller. i read some threads where someone was trying to fix it, but
they didn't get anywhere with it. Maybe ill revisit 9front once that's
sorted.

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 5:29 PM Michael Misch 
wrote:

> (For system-specific booting. It will use default, by default if that
> suits your needs)
>
> On Oct 19, 2021, at 10:47 AM, antonio@gmail.com wrote:
>
> 
> For PXE boot from a CPU server, I don't remember all the configuration,
> but I remember that you have to create a file with the MAC of the Ethernet
> client that you are using for pxe boot.
> it is in /cfg/pxe
> You have to create a file with the name of the mac address, and then you
> have to copy the content of the default file. Then you can edit it to your
> needs, or you can mix the content of the default file with the content of
> example-pi file and try to find the configuration that works for you.
>
> *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
>  + participants
>  + delivery options
>  Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [9fans] New to plan9

[joseph turco]

sigrid:

it spams this a bunch of times and then sits at the boot method line.
sdhc: read error intr 2008002 stat 1fff

i then press enter for the default local (or type local) and then it spams
it again and then back to the boot method line.

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 12:05 PM Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir <
ftrvxm...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Freaking out in what way?

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Re: [9fans] New to plan9

[joseph turco]

I have a sd card in the slot, its where the 9front image is.  you boot off
of the usb drive? i'm not well versed in kernel modification, is it
complex?

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 12:59 PM Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir <
ftrvxm...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There is no SD card in the slot? I used to see sdhc errors because of
> that - I've decided to boot from a usb flash drive only. I disabled
> sdmmc/sdhc in the kernel config and rebuilt it to get rid of the
> errors.
>
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 6:47 PM joseph turco 
> wrote:
> >
> > sigrid:
> >
> > it spams this a bunch of times and then sits at the boot method line.
> > sdhc: read error intr 2008002 stat 1fff
> >
> > i then press enter for the default local (or type local) and then it
> spams it again and then back to the boot method line.
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 12:05 PM Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir <
> ftrvxm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Freaking out in what way?
> >
> > 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options
> Permalink

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Re: [9fans] New to plan9

[joseph turco]

thanks for resource Skip. if i ever get the ethernet working on my desktop
ill try it out!

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 2:46 PM Skip Tavakkolian 
wrote:

> FYI, I have some notes on PXE booting 9pi (Richards' 9legacy 32bit
> port with 9front wireless support) on various RPi models.
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hgcsAgk_FJRYW5r7LVeY23sTZN_giUit-8ra-dlW9ng/edit?usp=sharing
>
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 10:46 AM  wrote:
> >
> > For PXE boot from a CPU server, I don't remember all the configuration,
> but I remember that you have to create a file with the MAC of the Ethernet
> client that you are using for pxe boot.
> > it is in /cfg/pxe
> > You have to create a file with the name of the mac address, and then you
> have to copy the content of the default file. Then you can edit it to your
> needs, or you can mix the content of the default file with the content of
> example-pi file and try to find the configuration that works for you.
> > 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options
> Permalink

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