Re: [9fans] Breaking up long lines in sam into more manageable ones
I would like to be able to break up long lines in sam in a way similar to the way I break them up in ed. For ed, I rely on the external command !fold -s -w80 %. This did not work for me in sam. What would be the best way to achieve this in sam? And is there a format line(s) command I could use? | Plan 9-command Send the range to the standard input, and replace it by the standard output, of the Plan 9 command. Thus, run something like `,|fold -s` or `,|fmt` to format long lines in, for example, your emails. -- Humm -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T8df760861ae2c8cd-M93188a3c4a4e50f7988df1b7 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
Quoth Duke Normandin: I'm new to Plan9. I don't know fuck all! So I gotta start at the beginning - NOT at sysadmin level. Off to Google ... The beginning is the name. The thing you use is “9front”. The abandoned thing is “Plan 9”. Note the blank. -- Humm -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T5888591114a7cf34-M43b9d4d058365aa3c6b75dd9 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
Quoth Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir: 9front wiki has some too, for example: http://wiki.9front.org/unix2plan9 Is that the old list of https://code.9front.org/wiki ? -- Humm -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T5888591114a7cf34-M6763c302b6af76b16b201b60 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
Quoth Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir: Is that the old list of https://code.9front.org/wiki ? It's a proper wiki with the new repo located at http://only9fans.com/garden/wiki.9front.org/HEAD/info.html Thanks, I know that; I was asking where the list comes from since the one I remembered to be in the old wiki apparently died with it. -- Humm -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T5888591114a7cf34-M7b48137134c870335a892374 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Despite being called a fork, is 9front similar to how Linux distros work?
Quoth matthpmore...@gmail.com: Hello. I just found out about Plan 9 and I'm trying to understand more. I see that 9front is often called a fork of Plan 9. However, reading the FAQ and the 9front wiki, the authors seem to often "conflate" both. I mean, I don't really understand what's written, but it's like the instructions for some stuff isn't really meant specifically for 9front, but rather Plan 9. Much stuff works the same in both. Besides that, reading what's different in 9front from Plan 9, it mentions drivers and programs. That makes me think that while 9front is called a fork, it doesn't really differ from Plan 9 in how it works and is structured, Both have sources in /sys/src. On top of that, much of the 9front source descents from Plan 9. And indeed, 9front is close to Plan 9 in how it can be used. much like a Linux distro may change some things about the Linux kernel, but in essence they're the same and easily interoperable. Is that right? A Linux distro seldom changes “some things” about the kernel. A custom configuration maybe, but little major and nothing that stops you from using a custom kernel or a kernel compiled on and for a different operating system (distro, if you will). That’s the one piece of software they all share: Linux. An operating system using Linux just uses upstream Linux or at least keeps up with upstream, if it has its own /fork/. 9front doesn’t have an upstream with which it could keep up. Plan 9 is dead and 9front is alive. I know it's subjective, but a fork implies to me that the goals and methods of the forking developers are different from the original software, maybe eventually leading to a completely contrasted software, with different environment, tools and inner workings, like Android is to Linux. That's why I wanted to clarify this question. You keep mixing things up. Android is not a fork of Linux. A fork of Linux by the Android project might be. And that fork, albeit heavily patched, still /has/ an upstream. 9front is a fork of Plan 9. Plan 9 is an operating system; 9front is an operating system. 9front will feel quite similar to Plan 9 in a lot of ways. Many tools and inner workings are the same (with bugfixes and working on more hardware and also otherwise better). You could argue that the goals and methods of 9front are different from Plan 9, but that has little to do with what constitutes a fork. 9front was forked off Plan 9, so it’s a fork. Little about that is subjective. -- Humm -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T395156d4f2b00cde-M2aa075a02ab6a59d323072e5 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Despite being called a fork, is 9front similar to how Linux distros work?
Quoth Matt: I see. Now that I look at it, 9fans its more similar to 9front than Plan 9 indeed. My confusion arose from the description being "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs". Besides that, the subreddit is r/plan9, and people seem to talk more often about Plan 9 itself than 9front. Thanks for clearing it up. The subreddit, except there is no “the subreddit”. Just another place where people who don’t know Plan 9 ask people who don’t know Plan 9 about whatever they currently think Plan 9 is. In the wild, I see more people talking about plan9port than about Plan 9. -- Humm -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T395156d4f2b00cde-Mdc822d833e78a2dd9c75d2df Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Despite being called a fork, is 9front similar to how Linux distros work?
Quoth Antonio Barrones: Linux distros are not only "Linux", they are GNU/Linux. Linux is only the kernel of a GNU/Linux system (a distro). Android is not a distro because they don't have GNU, but Android is "Linux" because it has Linux as kernel. Linux distros are not only Linux, they are whatever other software they consist of and Linux. Some of that might be developed under the umbrella of the GNU project, much of it likely isn’t. The term “GNU/Linux” is garbage. Android is yet another operating system using Linux. It seldom getting called “Linux distro” stems from it being used very differently (Java hell) and perhaps from how hard it is to see its Unix-like-ness. That has nothing to do with how much of it is part of the GNU project. It is not developed anymore in Bell Labs, but many of the original developers are part of the Plan9 Foundation and they are promoting it in different ways: https://plan9foundation.org/activities.html So I would not say that it "is not being developed anymore". Patches for Plan 9 exist. Forks exist. Yet, Plan 9 stays the exact same. Plan 9 with patches is Plan 9 with patches. 9front is 9front. Plan 9 has a modification timestamp of 2015. From the little I see, the Plan 9 Foundation changes little there. Plan 9, with a timestamp of 2015, now is licensed under an Expat license. And retains its timestamp. So no, Plan 9 is not being developed anymore. -- Humm -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T395156d4f2b00cde-M9431455edbac7b86ac06556e Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] void*
one of the first thing I noticed compiling in plan9 is that arithmetic on void* is illegal. That’s what the standard says. While Plan 9 C doesn’t pretend to be compliant, the core language does roughly match C89 with a few C99 extensions. Other compilers treat void* as uchar*. Conceptually, it makes sense. A pointer to void doesn't point to any object. But then I've seen the use of void* in functions (like memccpy) when the pointed object is going to be processed as a byte array. Local uchar*'s are used to do the trick inside the function. It wouldn't make more sense to avoid the use of void* and just use instead uchar* or better still u8int*? (Those are different. On Plan 9, we do make (too many) assumptions about type sizes, but conceptually, a byte need not be limited to eight bit.) I’m now quoting the C99 Rationale (revision 5.10). Page 37, § 6.2.5: A pointer to void must have the same representation and alignment as a pointer to char; the intent of this rule is to allow existing programs that call library functions such as memcpy and free to continue to work. Page 48, § 6.3.2.3: The use of void* (“pointer to void”) as a generic object pointer type is an invention of the C89 Committee. Adoption of this type was stimulated by the desire to specify function prototype arguments that either quietly convert arbitrary pointers (as in fread) or complain if the argument type does not exactly match (as in strcmp). -- Humm -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tecaea3b9ec8e7066-Me2a3b163527df44b207e4fc3 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] void*
Quoth Skip Tavakkolian: If void can have a size, why not 4, 8 or 16? Really, if it would have a size, it should be zero. And thus p+n==p. Not too useful. It’s fine as it is. -- Humm -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tecaea3b9ec8e7066-Ma41fef7117a53447879d3343 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
