Re: [9fans] upgrading the 9legacy shell (was: Gmail vs Upas)
> and nobody is building a > release with an "OFFICIAL" stamp on it What exactly would you want such a stamp to mean? -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T861dcd95691a032b-M702005ba10210f6d96197054 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Gmail vs upas
On the tangential subject of acme mail, I have a very infrequent bug where the header of a newly arrived message pops up in the position where the /mail/fs/mbox window used to be, some time after the mbox window has been adjusted by another window opening. Does anyone else see this? Is there a known patch on some fork which fixes it? -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Te20476748ab5e4ba-M23ae4b1940b6ee453d457258 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] upgrading the 9legacy shell (was: Gmail vs Upas)
On 12/3/19, Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote: >> and nobody is building a >> release with an "OFFICIAL" stamp on it > > What exactly would you want such a stamp to mean? > > If I may hi-jack the question, I think one needs a starting point that everyone can use as reference. What we have is the exact opposite and that "damages the brand". It would be ideal if we actually aimed for a small, common Plan 9 core with the best of all versions (take 9atom, for example: it is the only version that can reboot my workstation, even 9front freezes when pressing ctrl-alt-del) and good enough for all improvements to be capable of being rebased upon it. It would be a target, not a starting point, one I would think we can all be inspired by? Lucio. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T861dcd95691a032b-Mf8de308655611431c74be608 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Gmail vs upas
o...@eigenstate.org once said:
> Unrelatedly, would there be interest in adding the `$split{cmd} syntax
> from 9atom to 9legacy? I think it's currently the only reason that
> git9 doesn't work out of the box there, and it's very nice syntax.
I'm not a fan of the `word{...} syntax. It's odd to
allow a word in the middle of a syntactic form like
that. I can't think of any other part of rc(1) that
does that. Is there any?
I used to use a pair of functions named pushifs and
popifs to easily control backquote tokenization but
over time I realized that I only used them when I
wanted no tokenization at all, with $ifs set to ''
or '\n'.
So I ported the "{...} mechanism from mash(1) to my
local copy of rc(1) and haven't looked back since.
Cheers,
Anthony
--
9fans: 9fans
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Re: [9fans] upgrading the 9legacy shell (was: Gmail vs Upas)
we have no brand, but our kernel panics are better. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T861dcd95691a032b-M485e7e8e1250ffc3861ba982 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] upgrading the 9legacy shell (was: Gmail vs Upas)
>> and nobody is building a >> release with an "OFFICIAL" stamp on it > > What exactly would you want such a stamp to mean? > Largely 2 things: 1) That this is the "up to date plan 9" that the community around it believes should be used. This seems to have improved since the last time I looked -- 9legacy.org no longer calls itself 'an experimental patch queue'. Good! 2) That the update mechanisms documented will bring you up to date and incorporate those changes. It seems that the documented way to update your system is still replica/pull. I haven't checked that it still works. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T861dcd95691a032b-M82bdb331081b114151351ec6 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] upgrading the 9legacy shell (was: Gmail vs Upas)
Our kernel panics aren't backward. On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 7:27 AM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > we have no brand, but our kernel panics are better. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T861dcd95691a032b-M10a18c13331dbbf8c2d79635 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] upgrading the 9legacy shell (was: Gmail vs Upas)
out of my pov there is no big problem, my quick summary of the history: 1) it *seemed* hard to get patches in when the gatekeepers were still around (i didn't try) 2) respected gatekeepers have left the building (geoff was last iirc) 3) lots of stuff get fixed in 9front 4) nobody on 9fans realizes bec. the main developer doesn't care about credit or trolling as much as discussing boring technical (results in killfile on 9fans) issues. 5) 9front attracts lots of trolls that are able to use the system efficiently and are now contributing patches back to the effort. 6) skip continues to protect the doormat somebody forgot in front, but he never dared to look up at the long demolished building. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T861dcd95691a032b-M2955e39c4e8b1fd29c25b4e5 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] upgrading the 9legacy shell (was: Gmail vs Upas)
I can't tell if this is a similitude or an allegory. On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 12:32 PM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > 6) skip continues to protect the doormat somebody forgot in front, but > he never dared to look up at the long demolished building. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T861dcd95691a032b-Ma2ed19945e3e8fd839dce024 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] upgrading the 9legacy shell (was: Gmail vs Upas)
in your words it would be an insult, no? seriously, i hear only complaints here, meanwhile 9front is doing just fine. you are deciding against it for non-technical reasons (or probably misunderstandings). -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T861dcd95691a032b-Ma77821383571b0f9de61f05c Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] upgrading the 9legacy shell (was: Gmail vs Upas)
i resubscribed a week ago but i don't think i'll last another week here. sp9sss is where the action's at. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T861dcd95691a032b-M311b256852d969d47a786c8c Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] upgrading the 9legacy shell (was: Gmail vs Upas)
On Tue, Dec 3, 2019, 2:47 PM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > in your words it would be an insult, no? > Of course! How did I miss that?! seriously, i hear only complaints here, meanwhile 9front is doing just > fine. you are deciding against it for non-technical reasons (or > probably misunderstandings). > Is this irony? > -- > 9fans: 9fans > Permalink: > https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T861dcd95691a032b-Ma77821383571b0f9de61f05c > Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription > -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T861dcd95691a032b-M4aafa6d8792767d41aa22e00 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] upgrading the 9legacy shell (was: Gmail vs Upas)
> seriously, i hear only complaints here, meanwhile 9front is doing just > fine. you are deciding against it for non-technical reasons (or > probably misunderstandings). I have no interest in using 9front for both technical and non-technical reasons. The "community" is atrocious; anyone willing to turn a blind eye toward bad behavior due to technical merit is sophomoric if not abusive. ISTR calling this "elitist fuckery" in the past, I still stand by that. Second, the gatekeeping that was done while the labs was still active was tough, but usually fair. Geoff did a nice job of keeping the spirit of plan9 alive and often rejected larger changes that could have upset the balance. David's work on 9legacy also follows the same spirit; it's a patch queue that pulls from a number of different sources but strives to keep the original spirit intact. I struggle to see the same mindset held by 9front. That said, there is work being done outside of 9front. It's not as public or as polarizing, but there are still people hacking away. Steve -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T861dcd95691a032b-Mc37061b8c901f6d4e50d8325 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] upgrading the 9legacy shell (was: Gmail vs Upas)
> I have no interest in using 9front for both technical and > non-technical reasons. What are some of the technical reasons? -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T861dcd95691a032b-M7705c3f507b9b7dbb8a8800d Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] upgrading the 9legacy shell (was: Gmail vs Upas)
The world has really moved along since 2000, even since 95/98 (all clear Microsoft milestone years, in case one misses the connection). That genie ain't going back in any bottle. Well, is there really more than one, or is it just one, multiheaded Hydra? I feel at home on Plan 9 and continue to curse, mostly the resource greed of Linux, but also the continual "enhancements" it insists on foisting on me. Android is worse by a few orders of magnitude, it's even taken to remind me to restart my mobile instrument because it's been accumulating spiderwebs for more than a week! But then there is Go which is pretty much as bad, and yet I do not feel the same dislike, something about efforts towards discipline seem to avoid ruffling my feathers. The analogy with the South African socio-political situation is irresistible: the notable difference is that there isn't a power play in action with real people's lives being threatened. But the same dismissive attitude on one side that the other side uses to create an unjustified boundary is pretty much identical. But I would need to explain much I wish no one else will ever need to learn about, to avoid being insulting rather than encouraging. I would like the two main communities (despite Stallion's hints that we ought to look outside of these) to define their differences and bring to a table only those that one can build on. And that means a lot of rejections that neither side is going to appreciate having to swallow. But they are realities, essential if we are to move on. The significant thing, though, that we seem to overlook, is that 9fans is still active. For all the friction, we are still talking. Lucio. On 12/4/19, Alex Musolino wrote: >> I have no interest in using 9front for both technical and >> non-technical reasons. > > What are some of the technical reasons? -- Lucio De Re 2 Piet Retief St Kestell (Eastern Free State) 9860 South Africa Ph.: +27 71 471 3694 Cell: +27 83 251 5824 -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T861dcd95691a032b-M3e0e57233b39f051b967d33f Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] upgrading the 9legacy shell (was: Gmail vs Upas)
> What are some of the technical reasons? To clarify, I'm asking about technical reasons for not using 9front as opposed to some other Plan 9 flavour; not as opposed to some other operating system(s) altogether. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T861dcd95691a032b-Mfe32c65e8adf5cabdf9056ee Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
