Paul Rubin :
> Py3's unicode picture is described here and it isn't pretty:
> http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/5/12/everything-about-unicode/
>From the link:
The much more likely thing to happen is that people stick to Python 2
or build broken stuff on Python 3. Or they go with Go. Which uses a
Steven D'Aprano :
> Of course we have no idea what Marko's software is, or what it is doing,
Correct, you don't, but the link Paul Rubin posted gives you an idea:
Python 3 says: everything is Unicode (by default, except in certain
situations, and except if we send you crazy reencoded data
Paul Rubin :
> Marko Rauhamaa writes:
>> I have similar feelings, except that I'm not convinced Go is the answer.
>
> I don't think Go is the answer either, but it probably got strings
> right. What is the answer?
That's the ten-billion-dollar question, isn't it?!
Marko
--
https://mail.pytho
Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote:
maybe another word for pep revocation is fork
No, anyone can fork Python whenever they want, no discussion
required, without affecting Python itself.
Revoking a PEP would mean removing its implementation from
the main CPython repository.
--
Greg
--
https://mail
Hi folks,
The pylint team is happy to announce the release of pylint 2.0 and astroid 2.0!
This release only works with Python 3.4+, while older pylint releases
are still maintained for Python 2 compatibility, at least until next year.
You can find more details about what's new in this release ov
On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 11:43:14 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Paul Rubin :
>
>> Marko Rauhamaa writes:
>>> I have similar feelings, except that I'm not convinced Go is the
>>> answer.
>>
>> I don't think Go is the answer either, but it probably got strings
>> right. What is the answer?
Go string
On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 11:39:40 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano :
>
>> Of course we have no idea what Marko's software is, or what it is
>> doing,
>
> Correct, you don't, but the link Paul Rubin posted gives you an idea:
>
>Python 3 says: everything is Unicode (by default, excep
We would like to invite all EuroPython attendees and EuroPython
Society (EPS) members to attend this year’s EPS General Assembly (GA),
which we will run as in-person meeting at the upcoming EuroPython
2018, held in Edinburgh, Scotland, UK from July 23 - 29.
We had already sent a invite to the memb
Steven D'Aprano :
> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 11:43:14 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> Paul Rubin :
>>> I don't think Go is the answer either, but it probably got strings
>>> right. What is the answer?
>
> Go strings aren't text strings. They're byte strings. When you say that
> Go got them right, tha
Since we still have quite a few people with discount coupons who
haven’t bought their tickets yet, we are extending the regular ticket
sales by one day.
* EuroPython 2018 Tickets *
https://ep2018.europython.eu/en/registration/buy-tickets/
Switch to Late Bird Tickets o
Steven D'Aprano :
> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 11:39:40 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Armin seems to be implying that Unix is (1) the only OS in the world,
> and (2) beyond criticism.
If Unix is your world, of course you can criticize how badly Python3
performs in that world.
> Neither of these are co
I'm curious to understand how come the original MacPython logo is of a 16 ton
weight (rather than, say the word 'python' or a picture of a snake)?
You can see the logo here: https://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 2018-07-15 14:05, Mark wrote:
> I'm curious to understand how come the original MacPython logo is of a 16 ton
> weight (rather than, say the word 'python' or a picture of a snake)?
> You can see the logo here: https://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/
Most obscure references in Python are base
On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 9:17 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano :
>> - to have a language where text strings are a second-class
>> data type, not available in the language itself, only in
>> the libraries;
>
> Unicode code point strings *ought* to be a second--class data type. They
>
Chris Angelico :
> On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 9:17 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Remind me how it's such a mistake to treat that string as text all the
> way through?
Many times you need to make tricky ontological conversion decisions when
all you should need to do is relay the information.
> Python
On 15/07/18 14:49, Christian Heimes wrote:
> On 2018-07-15 14:05, Mark wrote:
>> I'm curious to understand how come the original MacPython logo is of a 16
>> ton weight (rather than, say the word 'python' or a picture of a snake)?
>> You can see the logo here: https://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpyt
On 15/07/18 07:35, Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer wrote:
@GregoryEwing
maybe another word for pep revocation is fork
All ready been tried and failed with Python as the PSF holds the rights
to the name, so you have to call it something else.
--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can
On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 14:17:51 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano :
>
>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 11:43:14 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>> Paul Rubin :
I don't think Go is the answer either, but it probably got strings
right. What is the answer?
>>
>> Go strings aren't text strin
On Sunday, July 15, 2018 at 1:49:22 PM UTC+1, Christian Heimes wrote:
> On 2018-07-15 14:05, Mark wrote:
> > I'm curious to understand how come the original MacPython logo is of a 16
> > ton weight (rather than, say the word 'python' or a picture of a snake)?
> > You can see the logo here: https:/
@MarkLawrence
this i fell compelled to reply.
no name issue. fork with features intended meaning python is open source,
you want to add as many feature as you want np, just like a user modifies a
script. you just need to master c and compiler theory and it becomes easy
or add like a "plugin" to
should have switched treads from here
Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer
https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ
>From the link:
>
>The much more likely thing to happen is that people stick to Python 2
>or build broken stuff on Python 3. Or they go with Go. Which uses an
>even simpler model than Pyt
@ChrisAngelico
don't know [replying to your message but addressing to all]
i respect you all, i respect your involvement, i doubt not your py skills
but can you please stay on topic and be concise
i value all posts here and try to read them all as they are all serious
stuffs but when you mix in
saw python still on open hatch last week, can some illuminated member
explain to me the purpose
there was a link to a contributing walkthrough (dead link), seems no longer
maintaining descriptions
Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer
https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listi
On 2018-07-15 15:52, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 14:17:51 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>
>> Steven D'Aprano :
>>
>>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 11:43:14 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
Paul Rubin :
> I don't think Go is the answer either, but it probably got strings
> right. W
From the Python List sign-up page:
About Python-list: This mailing list is a general discussion list
for the Python programming language.
---
From the Python CoC
A member of the Python community is: Open, Considerate, Respectful
---
There is only a handful of volunteer list moderators, and
On 7/15/2018 3:43 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
No. The real ten billion dollar question is how people in 2018 can stick
their head in the sand and take seriously the position that Latin-1 (let
alone ASCII) is enough for text strings.
Easy - for many people, 90% of the Python code they write
On 07/14/2018 07:40 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
> You'd better avoid most of JavaScript, C++, and most other languages,
> then. Every language feeps a little, and Python is definitely not as
> bad as some.
Point Of Order: C++ is one gigantic feep to be avoided at all costs... :)
--
https://mail.pyt
On 2018-07-15 19:22, James Lee wrote:
On 7/15/2018 3:43 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
No. The real ten billion dollar question is how people in 2018 can stick
their head in the sand and take seriously the position that Latin-1 (let
alone ASCII) is enough for text strings.
Easy - for many peo
Am 15.07.18 um 19:25 schrieb Ethan Furman:
The following users are now banned from Python List:
...
BartC
I don't really think that this is appropriate. Bart may have deviant
optinions, mostly he thinks that his own work is superior to Python -
but he has always argued in a calm and technic
On 7/15/2018 7:37 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
One of the classic Unix and Internet tenets is that text is bytes is
text.
Tenets of a faith may be wrong ;-). An informatic paradigm from more
than 45 years ago may be outdated and in need of revision.
On byte storage and on the Internet, **ever
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:22 AM, James Lee wrote:
>
>
> On 7/15/2018 3:43 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>>
>> No. The real ten billion dollar question is how people in 2018 can stick
>> their head in the sand and take seriously the position that Latin-1 (let
>> alone ASCII) is enough for text stri
On 07/15/18 12:37, MRAB wrote:
To me, Unicode and UTF-8 aren't things to be reserved for I18N. I use
them as a matter of course because I find it a lot easier to stick
with just one encoding, one that will work with _any_ text I have.
Which is exactly the same rationale for using any other s
On 07/15/18 13:09, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 4:22 AM, James Lee wrote:
On 7/15/2018 3:43 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
No. The real ten billion dollar question is how people in 2018 can stick
their head in the sand and take seriously the position that Latin-1 (let
alone AS
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 6:06 AM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 7/15/2018 7:37 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>
>> One of the classic Unix and Internet tenets is that text is bytes is
>> text.
>
>
> Tenets of a faith may be wrong ;-). An informatic paradigm from more than
> 45 years ago may be outdated and i
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 6:09 AM, Jim Lee wrote:
>
>
> On 07/15/18 12:37, MRAB wrote:
>>
>> To me, Unicode and UTF-8 aren't things to be reserved for I18N. I use them
>> as a matter of course because I find it a lot easier to stick with just one
>> encoding, one that will work with _any_ text I hav
As if in a wake for Guido, grief was grieved, drinks were drunk, voices
were raised, and some furniture was broken. Now, please, let's resume
being the most civil newsgroup on the net.
--
To email me, substitute nowhere->runbox, invalid->com.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-l
Ed Kellett :
> So, Marko, I don't know what code you work on, but I think it's unfair
> to attack Python 3's unicode handling too hard if you haven't written
> a new project with it.
I don't believe the problem was solely in the difficulty of conversion.
It was primarily in the tricky (and apparen
Terry Reedy :
> On 7/15/2018 7:37 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> One of the classic Unix and Internet tenets is that text is bytes is
>> text.
>
> Tenets of a faith may be wrong ;-). An informatic paradigm from more
> than 45 years ago may be outdated and in need of revision.
>
> [...]
>
>> Of cour
On 07/15/18 13:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
It doesn't matter what Twitch is, except for the fact that it is a
platform for HUMANS to communicate with HUMANS. Ultimately, that is
what matters. Pick any other web site or communication protocol you
please.
ChrisA
Yes, and for *that*, language ma
Christian Gollwitzer :
> Am 15.07.18 um 19:25 schrieb Ethan Furman:
>> The following users are now banned from Python List:
>> ...
>> BartC
>
> I don't really think that this is appropriate. Bart may have deviant
> optinions, mostly he thinks that his own work is superior to Python -
> but he has
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 7:02 AM, Jim Lee wrote:
>
>
> On 07/15/18 13:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>>
>> It doesn't matter what Twitch is, except for the fact that it is a
>> platform for HUMANS to communicate with HUMANS. Ultimately, that is
>> what matters. Pick any other web site or communicatio
Jim Lee :
> Yes, and for *that*, language matters; but, for a vast array of
> programming tasks that *don't* involve global communications, it's an
> added level of complexity with zero benefit. It would be *nice* to be
> able to turn support on or off, depending on the requirements of the
> indi
On 07/15/18 14:53, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 7:02 AM, Jim Lee wrote:
On 07/15/18 13:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
It doesn't matter what Twitch is, except for the fact that it is a
platform for HUMANS to communicate with HUMANS. Ultimately, that is
what matters. Pick any ot
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 7:57 AM, Jim Lee wrote:
>
>
> On 07/15/18 14:53, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 7:02 AM, Jim Lee wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 07/15/18 13:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
It doesn't matter what Twitch is, except for the fact that it is a
platform
I have an email message in a file (see attached). According to this page:
https://docs.python.org/3/library/email.examples.html
something like this should construct an email message from the file:
>>> from email.message import EmailMessage
>>> msg = EmailMessage()
>>> fp = open("/home/skip/tmp/7
On 07/15/18 15:07, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 7:57 AM, Jim Lee wrote:
On 07/15/18 14:53, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 7:02 AM, Jim Lee wrote:
On 07/15/18 13:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
It doesn't matter what Twitch is, except for the fact that it is a
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Jim Lee wrote:
>
>
> On 07/15/18 15:07, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 7:57 AM, Jim Lee wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 07/15/18 14:53, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 7:02 AM, Jim Lee wrote:
>
>
> On 07/15/18 13:30,
On 07/15/18 14:50, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
Jim Lee :
Yes, and for *that*, language matters; but, for a vast array of
programming tasks that *don't* involve global communications, it's an
added level of complexity with zero benefit. It would be *nice* to be
able to turn support on or off, depen
On 07/15/18 16:04, Chris Angelico wrote:
You claimed that Unicode was insignificant to many programs. I'm
trying to say that a Unicode text string is a vital part of any
program that works with text, which is pretty much anything that talks
to humans. You keep saying that ... well you keep say
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 9:08 AM, Jim Lee wrote:
>
>
> On 07/15/18 14:50, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>
>> Jim Lee :
>>>
>>> Yes, and for *that*, language matters; but, for a vast array of
>>> programming tasks that *don't* involve global communications, it's an
>>> added level of complexity with zero
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 7:35 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Christian Gollwitzer :
>
>> Am 15.07.18 um 19:25 schrieb Ethan Furman:
>>> The following users are now banned from Python List:
>>> ...
>>> BartC
>>
>> I don't really think that this is appropriate. Bart may have deviant
>> optinions, mostly
On 07/15/18 16:13, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 9:08 AM, Jim Lee wrote:
On 07/15/18 14:50, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
Jim Lee :
Yes, and for *that*, language matters; but, for a vast array of
programming tasks that *don't* involve global communications, it's an
added level of
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 9:10 AM, Jim Lee wrote:
>
>
> On 07/15/18 16:04, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>>
>> You claimed that Unicode was insignificant to many programs. I'm
>> trying to say that a Unicode text string is a vital part of any
>> program that works with text, which is pretty much anything
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 9:22 AM, Jim Lee wrote:
>
> You've turned my argument upside down by redefine terms mid-stream. Now,
> using Unicode is a "freedom" rather than a restriction. You've also
> introduced a straw-man argument by introducing integers as a parallel
> analogy (which it isn't - in
On 2018-07-15, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> I have an email message in a file (see attached).
Attachments don't work here.
> something like this should construct an email message from the file:
>
from email.message import EmailMessage
msg = EmailMessage()
fp = open("/home/skip/tmp/7948
On 07/15/18 16:24, Chris Angelico wrote:
That is why this seems obtuse to me. There is no benefit to going to a
pre-Unicode way of working with text.
ChrisA
In a word - simplicity.
As I said, there are programming situations where the programmer only
needs to deal with a single language
On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 11:22:11 -0700, James Lee wrote:
> On 7/15/2018 3:43 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>> No. The real ten billion dollar question is how people in 2018 can
>> stick their head in the sand and take seriously the position that
>> Latin-1 (let alone ASCII) is enough for text strings.
I can't seem to install the pips, DOS gives me the syntex i invalid, any
thoughts?
Thank you
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 2018-07-15, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 7:35 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> Christian Gollwitzer :
>>> Am 15.07.18 um 19:25 schrieb Ethan Furman:
The following users are now banned from Python List:
...
BartC
>>>
>>> I don't really think that this is appropriat
On 07/15/18 14:53, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 7:35 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
Christian Gollwitzer :
Am 15.07.18 um 19:25 schrieb Ethan Furman:
The following users are now banned from Python List:
...
BartC
I don't really think that this is appropriate. Bart may have dev
On 2018-07-16 00:10, Jim Lee wrote:
On 07/15/18 16:04, Chris Angelico wrote:
You claimed that Unicode was insignificant to many programs. I'm
trying to say that a Unicode text string is a vital part of any
program that works with text, which is pretty much anything that talks
to humans. You k
On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 13:09:59 -0700, Jim Lee wrote:
> On 07/15/18 12:37, MRAB wrote:
>> To me, Unicode and UTF-8 aren't things to be reserved for I18N. I use
>> them as a matter of course because I find it a lot easier to stick with
>> just one encoding, one that will work with _any_ text I have.
>
On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 16:08:15 -0700, Jim Lee wrote:
> Python3 is intrinsically tied to Unicode for string handling. Therefore,
> the Python programmer is forced to deal with it (in all but trivial
> cases), rather than given a choice. So I don't understand how I can
> illustrate my point with Pyth
On 07/15/18 16:55, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 11:22:11 -0700, James Lee wrote:
On 7/15/2018 3:43 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
No. The real ten billion dollar question is how people in 2018 can
stick their head in the sand and take seriously the position that
Latin-1 (let alone
I can't seem to install the pips, DOS gives me the syntex i invalid, any
thoughts?
Thank you
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 07/15/18 17:18, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 16:08:15 -0700, Jim Lee wrote:
Python3 is intrinsically tied to Unicode for string handling. Therefore,
the Python programmer is forced to deal with it (in all but trivial
cases), rather than given a choice. So I don't understand
On 15Jul2018 17:32, S Lea wrote:
I can't seem to install the pips, DOS gives me the syntex i invalid, any
thoughts?
Please post, inline as text, the commands you're trying to run, including the
prompt at which you're running the command and including any error messages
that happen. Also tell
On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 7:34 PM S Lea wrote:
>
> I can't seem to install the pips, DOS gives me the syntex i invalid, any
> thoughts?
You provide insufficient information for anyone to be able to help you.
1) Copy and paste the entire traceback into a plain text email, no
screen shots please.
On 15Jul2018 23:34, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2018-07-15, Skip Montanaro wrote:
I have an email message in a file (see attached).
Attachments don't work here.
something like this should construct an email message from the file:
from email.message import EmailMessage
msg = EmailMessage()
fp =
On 07/15/18 17:17, MRAB wrote:
On 2018-07-16 00:10, Jim Lee wrote:
On 07/15/18 16:04, Chris Angelico wrote:
You claimed that Unicode was insignificant to many programs. I'm
trying to say that a Unicode text string is a vital part of any
program that works with text, which is pretty much an
> What are you actually trying to do? You're talking like you're trying
> to read an existing RFC822 email-with-headers from a file, but you're
> showing code that creates a new email with body content set from
> a file, which is a completely different thing.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm trying to
A raw email message should be treated as a ‘bag of bytes’, and in processing
it, the encoding of the various sections determined by headers in the message
(or taking defined defaults if not specified). I suspect that means that you
should read as a binary file. I would hope that the module has t
On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 5:09 PM Jim Lee wrote:
> That is, of course, the decision of the moderators - but I happen to
> agree with both Christian and Ethan. Banning for the simple reason of a
> dissenting opinion is censorship, pure and simple. While Bart may have
> been prolific in his argument
Gerlando Falauto writes:
> ...
> Why is the main thread taking up so much CPU?
> I believe at this point listener.stop() should only be waiting for the helper
> thread to terminate, which I reckon would be implemented by waiting on a
> semaphore or something (i.e. iowait i.e. 0% CPU).
Maybe, yo
On Monday, July 16, 2018 at 6:56:19 AM UTC+2, dieter wrote:
> > ...
> > Why is the main thread taking up so much CPU?
> > I believe at this point listener.stop() should only be waiting for the
> > helper thread to terminate, which I reckon would be implemented by waiting
> > on a semaphore or som
On 16/07/18 07:39, Gerlando Falauto wrote:
> On Monday, July 16, 2018 at 6:56:19 AM UTC+2, dieter wrote:
>>> ...
>>> Why is the main thread taking up so much CPU?
>>> I believe at this point listener.stop() should only be waiting for the
>>> helper thread to terminate, which I reckon would be impl
On Monday, July 16, 2018 at 8:13:46 AM UTC+2, Thomas Jollans wrote:
> On 16/07/18 07:39, Gerlando Falauto wrote:
> > On Monday, July 16, 2018 at 6:56:19 AM UTC+2, dieter wrote:
> >>> ...
> >>> Why is the main thread taking up so much CPU?
> >>> I believe at this point listener.stop() should only be
Am 16.07.18 um 03:02 schrieb Jim Lee:
But I don't speak Esperanto, and my programs don't generally care what
characters are used for European currencies. When I create a simple
program that takes a text file (created by me) and munges it into a
different format, I don't care if someone from U
On 16/07/18 08:24, Gerlando Falauto wrote:
> On Monday, July 16, 2018 at 8:13:46 AM UTC+2, Thomas Jollans wrote:
>> On 16/07/18 07:39, Gerlando Falauto wrote:
>>> On Monday, July 16, 2018 at 6:56:19 AM UTC+2, dieter wrote:
> ...
> Why is the main thread taking up so much CPU?
> I believ
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