You obviously put quite a bit of time into your post, and I am sorry you did not get the response you envisioned. It was certainly not our intention to ignore you. SANE is a fairly small project, and most of us barely have enough time to keep the ~500K lines of code running, let alone discuss bigger projects or architectural issues. It is also quite possible that you covered the topic well, and no-one had any additional input. We have all been dealing with hardware manufacturers for quite some time, and might be a bit tired of talking to a brick wall :)
allan On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 5:45 AM, augustin <sane at overshoot.tv> wrote: > Hello, > > I wrote last week about not being able to buy a SANE-supported scanner, and > especially about 3 specific long term actions to be coordinated with similar > schemes in order to improve the long term prospects of hardware linux support. > > I was surprised by two things: first by the high number of hits my mail > generated on the Linux web site, and secondly by the complete lack of > constructive replies both on this list and by private emails. It's a shame > that nobody had anything constructive and positive to contribute to any of the > 3 action plans I had highlighted. > > Anyway, since I am not a SANE developer, and, I much regret, not event a SANE > user, I will now unsubscribe from this list. > If at any time in the future someone stumbles upon this archived email, ?they > may either email me privately or, even better, contribute their knowledge in > the wiki and in the relevant tickets on the web site (links below). > > Thanks again for your hard work developing drivers. :) > > Blessings, > > Augustin. > > > > On Tuesday 01 June 2010 03:59:53 pm augustin wrote: > ?Hello, > > ?I almost wrote a few weeks back about advice for a new scanner. First, I > ?did the most of the available documentation (thanks for it!) but then I > ?gave up the idea of buying a new linux fully supported scanner and ended > ?up borrowing one from a friend, which I used on a windows machine! (the > ?first time I use windows in many, many years!). > > ?But I am not writing to vent my frustration, far from it. First of all, I > ?am grateful for all the work all of you guys are doing for the Linux user > ?community :) > > ?I blogged about my experience here: > ?http://linux.overshoot.tv/blogs/augustin/shopping_and_linux_hardware_support > ?Most importantly, I highlighted three areas where things can be (and are > ?being) done. > > ?For your convenience, I copy the blog entry below, but the formatting and > ?some links may appear better on the web page above. > > ?If you know anything that is relevant to the topics I am discussing (e.g. > ?an existing, similar project), I'll add it to the wiki pages listed in the > ?blog. > > ?Thanks, > > ?Augustin. > > > ?----------------------- > ?http://linux.overshoot.tv/blogs/augustin/shopping_and_linux_hardware_support > > ?I was recently looking to buy a scanner with a good or complete support in > ?Linux: I quickly discovered that it was <em>an exercise in frustration > ?control</em>. > > ?<h2>Linux hardware: an ongoing headache</h2> > ?One of the ongoing problems when using Linux is that hardware manufacturers > ?do not provide their full specifications to driver developers, much less > ?do they develop and provide Linux drivers themselves. There are well known > ?exceptions but by and large, it is a state of affair that has given > ?headaches to more than one Linux users. > > ?All common hardware are well supported: CPUs, hard drives, most mother > ?boards, etc. But when shopping for more specialized hardware, we are often > ?facing a more difficult situation. > > ?As I needed a scanner, I did what I had to do. First I had a look at the > ?list of scanners supported by the SANE (Scanner Access Now Easy) project, > ?but it contains close to 1500 scanners <fn> See: > ?http://linux.overshoot.tv/wiki/scanners </fn>. > > > ?So I tried to operate the other way around: I went to the computer hardware > ?shops and made a list of all the scanners available on the market today. I > ?came back home with a list of manufacturers, product reference numbers and > ?prices. (I didn't write down the specs since I knew I could check them > ?online.) But then, I soon found out that it was close to impossible to > ?compare the list I brought back from the shops to that of the SANE > ?supported devices: scanners on one list are mostly not on the other list > ?and vice-versa. > > ?How am I supposed to chose a scanner, then? > > ?I am certainly <em>not</em> blaming the SANE developers, who do what they > ?can in their spare time according to the hardware they have access to. The > ?situation is nonetheless vexing. We can do something about it. > > ?<h2>A positive approach</h2> > > ?Far from me the idea to rant on a known problem just for the sake of > ?venting my frustration. I am posting this to assess the current situation > ?and suggest possible courses of action. <em>The objective of this very web > ?site (http://linux.overshoot.tv/ ) is to contribute something positive so > ?that the situation improves over time.</em> > > ?What follows are more specific observations and practical action points. > > ?<h3>Catalogues of hardware with support status</h3> > > ?As noted above, it can be sometimes difficult to choose a specific hardware > ?when there is almost no overlap between the list of devices available on > ?the market place and the lists found on the internet with devices > ?supported by Linux. > > ?Over the years, I have heard of several schemes to manually or > ?automatically repertory the hardware owned by Linux users together with > ?the availability and quality of Linux drivers. In some places, users are > ?invited to manually modify a wiki to list their hardware <fn>See for > ?example the official Ubuntu wiki where Ubuntu users have listed their > ?scanners: > ?https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupportComponentsScanners </fn>. Elsewhere, > ?people are invited to download and run a script that will automatically > ?list and submit their computer hardware into a central database <fn>There > ?was a Red Had related project like this, but I forgot the name and the > ?link... Follow up here: [#95]. http://linux.overshoot.tv/ticket/95 ?</fn>. > > ?It is one of the main mission of this site to repertory and list all the > ?best resources and documentation available on the internet. If you know of > ?any good project, you may list them on the hardware home page here: > ?http://linux.overshoot.tv/wiki/hardware . > > ?<h3>Requests for testing: connecting driver developers to end users</h3> > > ?While looking for my elusive, ideal scanner, I browsed the SANE mailing > ?list and noticed a few threads where driver developers were asking > ?specific device owners to help by testing and providing feedback <fn>See > ?for example those two recent threads: <a > ?href="http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/sane- > ?devel/2010-March/026318.html">any sniff volunteers unsupported Canon > ?scanners</a> and <a href="http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/sane- > ?devel/2010-March/026293.html">To owners of CanoScan 5600F: please > ?volunteer for testing</a>.</fn>. > > ?In the most ideal situation, hardware manufacturers would provide the full > ?specs for each of their devices. The Linux community has many, many > ?talented driver developers. However, those developers obviously do not own > ?the full range of hardware available on the market, nor do they have the > ?money to purchase all the newest, most popular hardware entering the > ?market. For them to be able to do their job, they need to have access, > ?directly or remotely to the devices that need to be tested. > > ?In the example above of SANE developers asking scanner owners to volunteer, > ?the developers are obviously pooling their (hardware) resources via the > ?SANE development mailing list. The obvious limitation is that even the > ?whole membership of the said mailing list may not own the full range of > ?devices to test. > > ?So, the question now is: how do we help open source driver developers get > ?in touch with Linux users who own a device to be tested? > > ?I do not have a ready answer to this question, but it is an important one > ?if we want to improve the range of Linux open source drivers in the > ?future. > > ?Here is the ticket to discuss this question: [#96] > ?http://linux.overshoot.tv/ticket/96 > ?Here is the corresponding wiki page: > ?http://linux.overshoot.tv/wiki/hardware/hardware_owners_help_linux_driver_developpers > > ?<h3>Manufacturer Hall of (Linux) Honour</h3> > > > ?Again and again, the open source driver developers remind us that we should > ?blame the manufacturers for any lack of proper Linux drivers. And they are > ?right. > > ?I think it is about time there were a <em>coordinated</em> effort for the > ?Linux community to lobby the manufacturers and pressure them with our > ?wallet whenever we go out and purchase some hardware. > > ?Currently, Linux consumers can only proceed using hearsays. For example, I > ?have personally heard a lot of good about HP's friendliness towards Linux. > ?(Yet, I was not able to find a HP scanner on the market today that is on > ?the SANE list of supported hardware. But I did find some in the shops that > ?were officially <em>not</em> supported.) > > ?We need to quantify and substantiate such claims so as to build an > ?authoritative list of the most Linux-friendly manufacturers. We need to > ?build a list of objective criteria and measure every manufacturer with the > ?same stick. > > ?We can discuss this specific issue here: > ?[#99] http://linux.overshoot.tv/ticket/99 > ?and document what we find here: > ?http://linux.overshoot.tv/wiki/hardware/most_linux_friendly_hardware_manufacturers > > > ?<h2>Conclusion</h2> > > ?Obviously, the projects and ideas highlighted above will not happen on > ?their own. Neither is it me alone who will make a difference. I am simply > ?hoping that the Linux user community will shine and be at its best: let > ?everyone contribute a little something and soon the situation we're facing > ?when hardware shopping might be different. > > -- > friends: http://www.reuniting.info/ http://activistsolutions.org/ > my projects: > http://astralcity.org/ http://3enjeux.overshoot.tv/ http://linux.overshoot.tv/ > http://overshoot.tv/ http://charityware.info/ http://masquilier.org/ > http://openteacher.info/ http://minguo.info/ > http://www.wechange.org/ http://searching911.info/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > -- > sane-devel mailing list: sane-devel at lists.alioth.debian.org > http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/sane-devel > Unsubscribe: Send mail with subject "unsubscribe your_password" > ? ? ? ? ? ? to sane-devel-request at lists.alioth.debian.org > -- "The truth is an offense, but not a sin"
