Hi Yann (and sage-support),
This is from a linbox developer (see below). This will be fixed by:
(1) upgrading -- actually, we *already* use linbox-1.1.6 in sage, so ...
(2) making it so minpoly by default just raises a NotImplementedError, however
minpoly(proof=False) will call minpoly a bunch of times and return
the lcm of the
results.
It turns out that maybe linbox doesn't seem to have a proof=True
minpoly algorithm yet (they are hard to write), so our wrapping of
linbox is wrong, given that in Sage the default is proof=True
everywhere.
Yann -- if you want to work on improving the situation wrt any of the
above, please do.
William
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jean-Guillaume Dumas <jean-guillaume.du...@imag.fr>
Date: 2009/6/15
Subject: [linbox-devel] Re: [sage-support] linbox bug?
To: linbox-de...@googlegroups.com
William Stein wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 6:03 PM, Yann<yannlaiglecha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> | Sage Version 4.0.1, Release Date: 2009-06-06 |
>> | Type notebook() for the GUI, and license() for information. |
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> sage: A=matrix(GF(3),2,[0,0,1,2])
>> sage: R.<x>=GF(3)[]
>> sage: D={ x:0 , x+1:0 , x^2+x:0 }
>> sage: for i in range(100000):
>> ....: D[A._minpoly_linbox()]+=1
>> ....:
>> sage: D
>> {x: 38266, x + 1: 29397, x^2 + x: 32337}
>>
>>
>
> You're absolutely right! This *sucks* -- it seems like nothing we
> have ever wrapped in Linbox is right at first. Hopefully the issue is
> that somehow the algorithm is only supposed to be probabilistic, and
> we're just misusing it in sage (quite possible).
>
> Anyway, Clement Pernet will be at Sage Days next week, and we'll sort this
> out.
> Many thanks for brining this to our attention!
>
> This is now:
>
> http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/6296
>
Well, I think this was corrected in linbox-1.1.6:
The minpoly algorithm used depends on which method you are using from
LinBox of course but,
If you use the solution "minpoly" you will get the blackbox algorithm
(just like if you specify "minpoly(pol, mat, Method::Blackbox())")
then (since sept 2008 and 1.1.6) we will end up using an extension field
to compute the minpoly (on my machine it will be GF(3^10)) and then
I e.g. got the following result for one try (the algorithm is still
probabilistic, but has a much larger success rate, roughly around 1/3^10):
> 99993 minimal Polynomials are x^2 +x, 3 minimal polynomial are x+1, 4
minimal polynomials are x
Now for a so small matrix it could be better to use a dense version,
which can be called by "minpoly(pol,mat,Method::Elimination())".
If i am correct this dense version is also probabilistic (choice of the
Krylov non-zero vector) and therefore should also pick vectors from an
extension.
This is not the case in 1.1.6.
Clément can you confirm this ? If so it should be easy to fix, the same
way we fixed Wiedemann.
For your example matrix in some of the cases, when vectors [1,1], and
[2,2] are chosen the Krylov space has rank 1, whereas for other non zero
vectors it has rank 2 and
thus the dense minbpoly will be x^2+x or x+1 ...
btw, the returned polynomial is always a factor of the true polynomial,
therefore to get a 1/3^{10k} probability of success it will be
sufficient to perform the lcm of k runs.
Best,
--
Jean-Guillaume Dumas.
____________________________________________________________________
jean-guillaume.du...@imag.fr Tél.: +33 476 514 866
Université Joseph Fourier, Grenoble I. Fax.: +33 476 631 263
Laboratoire Jean Kuntzmann, Mathématiques Appliquées et Informatique
51, avenue des Mathématiques. LJK/IMAG - BP53. 38041 Grenoble FRANCE
http://ljk.imag.fr/membres/Jean-Guillaume.Dumas
____________________________________________________________________
--
William Stein
Associate Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org
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