You should also feel free to reach out to Andy Terrel or Leah Silen at NumFOCUS. I gave them a heads-up about this conversation as well.
Thanks, Jason On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 9:17 AM Dima Pasechnik <dimp...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 4:11 PM Erik Bray <erik.m.b...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hi folks, > > > > The topic of Sage joining the NumFOCUS [1] organization was raised in > > the recent thread [2] about the SageMath Foundation. When I first > > started working on Sage I was frankly surprised that it wasn't already > > affiliated with NumFOCUS, along with many other projects on which Sage > > is built including IPython/Jupyter, Matplotlib, NumPy, SciPy, SymPy, > > Cython, etc. Sage would fit right in, but I guess just nobody ever > > took the initiative. > > > > I believe that Sage should be represented as part of the NumFOCUS > > family of projects, and that it *may* be beneficial to the project, > > especially in terms of long-term sustainability. > > > > I have set up a mailing list at sagemath-numfo...@googlegroups.com [3] > > for the purpose of discussing a possible membership application to > > NumFOCUS for Sage, just in order to keep noise off of sage-devel for > > anyone not interested in the subject. It's a closed group for now but > > anyone may join. Please send follow-ups there if you are interested > > in helping with this or adding your perspective (if you are against it > > somehow please raise your concerns there too). > > > > > > # What is NumFOCUS? > > > > In short, it's a US-based 501(c)3 charitable organization that exists > > to provide legal and financial support for open source projects > > focused on or around open science and scientific data analysis, > > numerical projects, and things like that. I think there's no > > hard-and-fast rule for determining what projects fall under the > > NumFOCUS umbrella--the organization's leadership makes those calls, > > and it's kind of a "you know if you see it". I believe Sage > > undoubtedly falls under that umbrella. > > > > To quote the official mission statement: > > > > > The mission of NumFOCUS is to promote sustainable high-level > programming languages, open code development, and reproducible scientific > research. We accomplish this mission through our educational programs and > events as well as through fiscal sponsorship of open source scientific > computing projects. We aim to increase collaboration and communication > within the data science and scientific computing community. > > > > > > # What could NumFOCUS do for Sage? > > > > As discussed in the SageMath Foundation thread, through that > > foundation the SageMath project already has at least one legal entity > > through which we can receive donations and disperse payments from > > those donations. So that, as a bare minimum, already exists for Sage. > > However, I see some other possibility benefits: > > > > 1) Free exposure--NumFOCUS's community has a number of members both in > > terms of projects and individuals. News about Sage would reach a > > wider audience, for example, through NumFOCUS's newsletter and their > > presence at events, etc. > > > > 2) Fosters cross-pollination between affiliated projects--Sage already > > benefits enormously from many of the other projects that are already > > affiliated with NumFOCUS. I listed a few examples above. But through > > this affiliation we might get exposed to other projects, or other > > projects may be exposed to Sage, in ways that will allow us to > > discover new opportunities for collaboration and integration.* > > > > 3) Financial support--this is the big one. NumFOCUS might be able to > > provide us anywhere from large grants (such as supporting part- or > > full-time developers) to small one-off grants such as limited > > development efforts, events (e.g. sponsoring a SageDays), or > > purchasing hardware and other computing resources (a major need for > > Sage). > > > > > > # How do we become affiliated? > > > > There are two broad types of project membership in NumFOCUS: > > "sponsored projects" [4] and "affiliated projects" [5]. The > > difference, as I understand it, comes mostly down to level of > > financial support. > > > > To become an affiliated project we would have to meet only a subset of > > the requirements for sponsored projects, which I believe Sage could > > meet pretty easily. However, it comes with no guaranteed financial > > support. But it *does* allow us to apply for small, one-off grants > > for Sage (e.g. Astropy won a small grant once to purchase some > > Mac-mini build machines). > > > > For sponsored projects there is more obligation, and they fall under > > two sub-categories: "Comprehensive Model" and "Grantor-Grantee Model". > > > > Under the "Comprehensive Model", NumFOCUS would basically become the > > sole entity handling legal and fiduciary responsibilities for the > > project. Basically it becomes like our legal guardian. I don't > > believe that would be appropriate at this time for Sage, especially > > given that we already have the SageMath Foundation in such a role. > > Though it's a possibility if we ever lose that (e.g. we lose William > > Stein, or William loses UW). > > > > Under the "Grantor-Grantee Model" we would be straight up applying for > > a grant with some specific purpose and funding target. This comes > > with the usual responsibilities of being a grantee, such as using the > > funds for the purposes they were requested, and making regular reports > > to the grantor, etc. In Sage's case, if we did something like this, > > NumFOCUS would likely pay money to the SageMath Foundation, which > > would then be responsible for its dispersal and tax liabilities, etc. > > > > This might be useful, especially if we can come up with some concrete > > goals for a grant application. It could be something as simple as > > funding development time. Sage right now only has one former "role" > > as far as I know, which is release manager. And it's a lot of work > > and responsibility, which we might be able to get some part-time > > funding for to keep it worthwhile for the release manager (i.e. > > Volker). Another possibility might be concrete plans for development > > of new features in Sage, such as much-needed improvements for > > undergraduate math. I'm just throwing some ideas out here to get the > > mental gears turning--we can discuss that more on the mailing list. > > > > For starters, I think as a bare minimum, we should apply to make Sage > > an affiliated project. It's not clear to me if we can "upgrade" from > > an affiliated project to a sponsored project at a later time. I can't > > imagine why not, but it might also be something worth getting > > clarification on. > > I think we should go for a sponsored project. > I'd be glad to help to set it up, if you leave me out of handling the CoC > thing. > > I'm grateful to William for putting me forward to co-lead this formally, > but > it certainly (also) needs people with much better-looking jobs part of > the CVs than what I have (I do not know how I will be funded after ODK > finishes in about one year time - the only > "permanent" job I have is a part-time college lectureship > (teaching-only, that is)) > How about some high caliber Sage users/devs in the States, e.g. Kiran? > > Dima > > > > > Regards, > > E > > > > > > > > * For example, I only really found out about the nteract project > > through the NumFOCUS mailing list. I knew it *existed* but not much > > beyond that. I'm now thinking it might make a great starting point > > for development of a "native" desktop application for Sage, a project > > I hope to pursue at some point... > > > > [1] https://numfocus.org > > [2] https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sage-devel/sGFOYBeEq-Q/mBMCMtJ_CgAJ > > [3] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/sagemath-numfocus > > [4] https://numfocus.org/sponsored-projects > > [5] https://numfocus.org/sponsored-projects/affiliated-projects > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "sage-devel" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. > > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. 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