On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Tim Daly <d...@axiom-developer.org> wrote: > I find it amusing that mathematicians are being told that > a math-specific language is a liability. Mathematics is, > after all, a specialized language that took me years to > learn. > > In any problem you wish to solve with a program there is always > an impedance mismatch (like hooking a soda straw to a firehose). > > You can choose a language close to the machine (e.g assembler) > and "port" your problem across the chasm. Or you can choose a > language close to the problem (e.g. APL) and let the machine do > the "port" across the chasm. Python is somewhere in the middle > where mathematics is concerned. > > Python is a poor match for the machine (interpreted) and it is a > poor match for the mathematics (needing lots of supporting > superstructure the user needs to learn).
This is FUD, which tacitly assumes the world is black and white. For a *given problem and mathematician*, sometimes Python (or any language) is an excellent match and sometimes it is a poor match. > As a pragmatic choice for design-by-accretion it is excellent. > But as a selling point for developing mathematics I'm somewhat > more skeptical. > > What is the ultimate purpose of Sage (beyond competition)? The ultimate purpose of Sage is to provide a viable *alternative* to the Ma's. The goal of the Sage project is to create software that can be used by people to solve mathematical problems without them having to rely on closed commercial systems. > Is it a platform for doing computational mathematics? It is software for doing computational mathematics. > If so, why wouldn't I want a language close to my problem, > that is, a language that directly supports well-founded > mathematics? The language you might want depends on *your problem*. In my experience, there are a very, very wide range of problems that one confronts when being involved in mathematics. This ranges from creating webpages and databases, to grading homework, to enumerating all objects with some property, to multiplying polynomials, to experimenting with ideas for algorithms, to drawing pictures of elliptic curves for books and papers, and much more. > And what can that possibly have to do with Python? For some combinations of mathematician + problem, Python is a sufficiently good choice. > Python is the glue. Who chooses a workbench based on the glue? Arguments based on metaphor and analogy. Sigh. If it rhymes, it must be true... > > Tim Daly > > > On 11/13/2010 10:13 AM, rjf wrote: >> >> On Nov 13, 6:32 am, "Johan S. R. Nielsen"<j.s.r.niel...@mat.dtu.dk> >> wrote: >> >>> two info boxes on this suggested "Why Sage"-page. >>> >>> I don't think that Python is the perfect language to write mathematics >>> software with; I would definitely vote on a much more functional >>> language here, e.g. OCaml or maybe even Haskell. However, this would >>> cut out so many potential developers, >> >> ... yada yada... >> >> excessive boosterism. >> >> Consider that symbolic software systems like Maxima/Macsyma, Reduce, >> Axiom, Jacal ... >> were written in Lisp, >> >> and that Mathematica and Maple were written in C dialects... >> >> and even YOU would prefer a different, more functional language. >> >> And then you say Python is still better. >> >> Certainly not for writing math software. Maybe for writing web >> applications? >> >> Because it has a coherent syntax???? Compared to Lisp or Haskell or >> OCaml? >> Because people who know little mathematics and little about >> programming >> can write/alter/debug applications for SAGE??? About which they >> presumably know >> nothing? And this is because Python is such a winner? >> >> And of course so much of SAGE is not even in Python, but C, Fortran, C+ >> +, Lisp, whatever, >> that even that is nonsense. >> >> excessive boosterism. >> >> At best, you might say, some features of Sage can be augmented by >> writing in Python, and >> the user interface looks like Python (actually it is not, but has to >> be pre-processed). >> >> RJF >> > > -- > To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to > sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel > URL: http://www.sagemath.org > -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
